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amina_mccloud/A Conversation-Dr_ Aminah McCloud and Dr_ Abdullah_kYusYGhdpi0&pp=ygUVQW1pbmFoIE1jQ2xvdWQgIGlzbGFt_1742898307.opus	[ "strengthening families and communities. And so we'd like to welcome all of you from wherever you have come from for attending, for tuning in. And we hope to start this conference with a short conversation with one of our elders Dr. Amina McLeod who is the professor of religious studies and director of Islamic world studies at DePaul University.", "contributed in the past and last year to the conference, and in other ways she's contributed greatly to our efforts. So we're very appreciative and grateful for all of her contributions. And we definitely appreciate her wisdom when it comes to trying to frame the conversations that we hope to have during this particular weekend insha'Allah. So Dr McLeod I'd like to welcome you.", "important for us to be very concerned about insensitive to what sort of questions you think are important to have answered or to be asked, etc. Etc. So the floor is yours and I'll try to interject whenever I feel that's necessary. I have looked at the schedule and I think it's a wonderful set", "of workshops and I don't know small conversations. And it seems to me that they fall in three categories. One is our concerns we have with family, marriage and divorce. The other is a set of concerns we", "And another set really regards our, I don't want to call it interfaith dialogue because it's not just faiths that are interacting. But they are people from different faiths bringing values, interacting on social issues, social concerns, whether they be domestic or foreign. So I kind of see those three categories.", "uh there may be more but i think that they are very very um interesting um and we've talked about this before islam in america is just coming so to speak um and that we're not", "parts of other cultures. We have a unique set of experiences here which add to that wonderful rich tapestry of Islam in the world and as we call through sources, whether we're calling", "from other schools of Islamic learning around the world. That what we have to do now is see what of that philosophically and ideologically, we can use for the 21st century where we are. Right. And by we exactly who would you mean when you say that we have these things? I think that any Muslim has access they got to a little work but", "but i think that the those who have chosen to do islamic studies have got to turn their their research their eye toward okay it's nice that i learned about al-ghazali but you know hey that's nice but algos ali is not living in 21st century chicago you know uh and what about the woman that taught him but that's a different issue you know just", "you know, just side issues. But what of what he said? Whether he's being the right hand of the king or he's been the philosopher kind of in retreat, one of what is it can I use to piece together a guidance for the 21st century? I don't think that our learning audience knows", "that tafasir is why and that the men and women engaging in it are doing the best they can but they're still within their own context. I mean we're going to do it and are doing it as we attempt to understand the Quran and move, well we gotta see what we're doing. So that's", "family lives, I think it is very critical to realize we have embarked on something very interesting. In that in other times we would have married for example men and women our families knew, met at college this, that and the other but now we have some more requirements one of which is they be Muslim", "that we don't really know them in this strange situation. And to ask people to come to know each other after they've made a legal contract is even stranger, you know? So we have to take all of that into consideration and realize that we're kind of walking a hybrid. We have a Western notion of love and compassion", "and then there's the other world understanding of status, economic support. So we're kind of bridging two worlds. Yes right yeah so what it sounds like to me is that there are multiple challenges in any given conversation naturally", "spoken and relate to of course power relationships between people they can be based upon our sexual differences, based upon economic disparities or class differences. Yes. And if those particular issues are not sort of fleshed out then we technically I guess you would say", "hope that we can create a lasting peace or a lasting harmony. Would you say that's the good way? You mean inside of the family? Well, inside of The Family, right? Inside of the community, all of that, yes. What I'm saying is that you gotta work at it in different ways. Early in African American history, it was understood that African American women had a greater chance of being educated and employed than African American men.", "American men. So you had women who were teachers marrying men who were pipefitters or plumbers at this time, but those men didn't understand that as power disparity or contention. Good point. Yes. Right? So now we're in an even more strange situation where African-American", "city across this nation are being carted off to jail you know is and i mean at even younger and younger ages so what is happening in an interesting for me kind of genocide it is that the women have got to regroup so what are we going to now use as the balance yes right", "year we actually had a panel related to um incarcerating or sort of re-entry uh formerly incarcerated muslims back into the community um of course that itself is going to remain a major i guess you say concern in our conferences this year we don't have that people panel because we wanted to expand the theme make it a bit broader and hopefully deal with some issues in such a way that", "such a way that eventually they may address this particular crisis that does exist with regards to incarceration. But at any rate, there is definitely I guess the couple of panels related to marriage one panel is on the topic polygyny another panel related to just the general reasons why individuals should get married or generally do get married and perhaps suggestions", "of reasons why they rather should get married, rather than objectifying one another. And we've seen a rise in tension between men and women not just among African American community or Black American community but even in our world now because of feminism and other things like that where it seems there's a lot of competition", "It hasn't really been that serious of a challenge for the Black community when it comes to feminism. But what we do see developing is, although maybe a fringe concern but there are a number of sisters who have attempted started to talk about the importance of men being men and part of that is men actually taking on their proper financial responsibilities which usually", "as a result of having better education and better opportunity, perhaps in being a bit more creative about how they actually earn their money. And so issues that come up in relationships like, you know, oh, your mom doesn't obey me. So the suggestion becomes, okay, well it will be easier for me to obey you if you actually did your job as a man or if you'd actually heard acting as a", "problems in terms of educational disparity between Black men and Black women, and especially nowadays is probably even much more significant. It is. How do we approach that particular conversation? Well, I think it's going to require, first of all, a lot of work. But as long as the law lets us open our eyes every day, we can go to work on it. Yeah, exactly. But I think that you're right. You're absolutely right.", "absolutely right and one of the uh reasons being given for polygyny is that they're not enough available men but there are available men, but if you only look in your backyard you're probably going to come up with weeds. But that's the definition um I think that we have communities where", "portion of our community have taken over the center of our Community and those who acquire skills and education don't want to hang out so you don't see them yes you know they show up to give zakat you know or an edelfetzer you know but you don t see them short of that Juma", "The other part is that we are, we can't forget there were a subjugated community. Yes. And the subjugation was deliberate and by design. Can't give in to within reasonable limits of what does acting like a man mean? You have the best man on the planet who has God fearing and as a great job and as an accident", "an accident that's right you know does that mean you chuck him out the window because he has an accident he no longer has a job and trump took away the darn uh medical insurance you see what i'm saying you gotta look at a long term because you're not always gonna be young getting married so big older", "like she did when i married her yes no she put on 30 pounds you know he's his face dropped you know i mean all of these things come into play people's sexuality changes their eating habits change you know what they're interested in changes so you've got to look at marriage as a long-term investment", "However, one set of things. How we navigate the economic disparities? How we talk about in future conversations because they are serious and they're only going to get worse. Right. How do we learn how to be compassionate with another? That might you know as the old saying that might be your test it doesn't mean that you supposed to have every test", "but you know, you still have to learn how to be compassionate. I think the thing you said first, I'm thinking it was first, how we think about navigating that whole big thing. I've been involved in a number of court cases recently", "Where One of the things has to be is we have to own up to who we are If you're gonna be Muslim be muscle, yes I'm not saying that you have to change your name But then it's to be a legal name when show up at the masjid. That's the name you use Mm-hmm You know if you have a preferred and they put it as your middle name but if something happens to you Of the masjed and whatever family you've created need to be", "Need to be able. To access your stuff. To assess you. To assist with your burial. Whatever. That was one of the things I read. You know he's Mohammed in L.A. And he's Akbar in Atlanta. And something else in Detroit. Well who is he? Nobody really knows. And we have to stop that in our community. We have to make our communities", "our community responsible and accountable places right right right yes i agree that'll help a little bit people can't show up i'm not saying you know for mothers and fathers who've got kids waiting to be married i would suggest you do a background check but because you don't want your child marrying someone who's unsavory", "presents in one way, but is actually someone else. Yes, right. And is using the Muslim community to hide it. So we have some issues about which we just need to have conversations. We haven't had those conversations. Right. You know, while I was listening to you talk, another thought came to my mind and this... It's not something that actually is on the agenda", "agenda or on the program itself. But it has, it's a growing concern I guess that I have and it relates to the idea one, the idea that many Black Muslims seem to believe that authentic blackness is defined by poverty you're not being educated in the academy for instance", "instance, or in other ways. And there is somewhat of a rift I guess you would say between Muslim leaders who actually are identified with the academy or identify with being like, of course they go on amongst these so-called scholars quote unquote and a lot of people who may see themselves as real black people right?", "i'm sorry you know that was my point to get my point but again that's that's what i my sense is that that's where people sort of feel that those particular type of muslims or people black people in general see themselves that way i mean you have any thoughts on that well you know any community irrespective of its ethnicity has people at all levels of life it can't come", "can't come it can't work with everybody at the same level communities just don't work like that what communities have to fight to do is i think respect people in their at their various levels unless it's unsavory yes right um i was just real blank for you folks this doesn't gonna stick in my head forever um but i think that there is an abiding", "kind of unrealistic jealousy it's always uh been there um and that's unfortunate but that too is normal um but you have to to move to protect your soul you know if you open your soul", "to let all of those negative influences rule you, and you might as well hang it up and convert to Buddhism. Yeah. You know, because the nafs are an interesting set of whatever they are. Mm-hmm. And I think that a part of being Muslim is to be aware of them. Mm hmm. See them so to speak", "so to speak, when they're creeping around the edges and say, hey, how you doing? See you later. You know, kind of stuff because that's what's going on with these issues with well he went to school so therefore he thinks he's better than I am. Well he went", "learn this skill over here to do something for me i can't call abdullah ali to fix my pipes you see what i'm saying right and if i did it would be like me fixing them you know i need the expert one that's at a different level not another level a different of expertise to do that over there and i need to be able to trust him he needs to be honest", "I think it's that kind of reciprocal control that is absent in the larger society, which is why it's so hard for us to find a mirror. That is important but one of the things most important we don't talk about often is how do we protect our souls? Yes, right.", "know people think of the large aggressive physical incursions like what happened in new zealand but it's that inner you know protection and accountability and responsibility that is equally if not more so important yeah and i'm very glad really glad that you mentioned this part because um", "I've said certain things about our community, or I would say attempting to get members of our community to accept some sense of self-responsibility for their plights at certain times rather than constantly saying something. Just tell them that Amena said it and I'm repeating her. They know me for saying it. Yeah, well you legit. You're down.", "So yes, yeah. Yeah, you know and I understand it does mean a lot You know for your foot for certain people like who says it? It does quite a means a lot, you Know and you know And and and I don't like to tell people about my past you see me so and I think perhaps because I don' t tell people About my past they always get this impression of always I was born with this, you silver spoon in my mouth And I just always where I am, you now there's some people I think that way. Yeah", "Yeah, I worked hard. I did work hard. But the point I'm trying to make here is this, is that like for instance if you look at the Nation of Islam, like Louis Farrakhan and then you look of course Malcolm and others they were able to do this is that they themselves found it easy to both be critical of white people in the system and also be critical", "they themselves were traitors to their own race, right? And I'm just wondering why is it so difficult for non-members of the nation and others like that to do the same. What is it that we could potentially do to actually have similar type of appeal without having to make our people feel completely as if all of their problems are a result of something above them, right you see? Some of those problems are there's no doubt about it but not all of", "times we have fought so hard to master Arabic, to master the sources. And in that world it flows off your tongue and what it does is it glazes people over. It separates you from them. Yes. And that's not what you want", "well it's been a number of years ago now uh dedicated well we weren't dedicated we were asked to work with minister farrakhan on quranic knowledge you know now his job for his audience is to translate what we've taught him but in the process we had to learn to translate", "got to do. Yes. You know, is to talk about those things, hit people where they are and with what they know like their life's breath. Yes, right. And you know, and they will speak along with you about whatever the issue is. Black folks know that they're responsible for half the crap that happens to them. You", "around killing each other once your hands drop down to their knees you have to see what my call the police but that's a different issue um they have gotten their own parents so scared that they will not turn them in because now there is no longer", "age they're buying them the flat screen tvs and keeping the lights on in the water and the people are sitting back saying my social security won't cover it i'm not gonna live right yeah if they don't bring that money in here well you know we have solutions but they have to be worked upon and that's where uh frederick my husband belongs to this african-american muslim vets group", "And one of the things they're talking about, I said, you know, I mean, well, I didn't say he said, You know we went to war man fighting people that we didn't even know. Tell me we can get our grandchildren in order here. So it has to come from within. Yes, might require and hopefully lampposts have many sensitive", "sensitive conversations in the future. And people may not like, folks do not like to be called on their stuff. Yes, right. You know? That's the newest thing now. I'm not responsible for anything. Somebody did it to me. It's like reparations. And if you ask people, after you get your check in the mail, what are you going to spend it on? They're talking about a pot somewhere they can put all these checks and build something that's sustainable", "sustainable. The shoes they saw the pocketbook, I can get a car. You know? I mean it's what we've been reduced to without guidance. Yes right yeah. So I have one last question before we leave today. This relates to trying to bridge the divide between the Black community and what we generally like to refer to as the immigrant", "of them don't like to be called the immigrant community. Last year we had a panel on that divide and all panelists were Black Americans. This year, we have a special panel and mixed it up a bit so we actually have one Arab, one Indian, one of Arab descent, one white American brother as well. We plan to have a conversation", "a conversation to sort of, to hear, to have the audience hear from them their particular perspectives about the relationship between our various communities and what they believe to be the things that actually are making it difficult for us to communicate uh our messages clearly to one another. Right so um just some final thoughts about what you think about that particular panel", "It's going to be a sensitive conversation if it's an honest one. I think the term immigrant has come to be pejorative, meaning you don't know nothing, whether it's real or false, true or not. And what African Americans are saying is that you don' t know the history of this country. But immigrants typically don't", "survive. And if they learn the history of the country, it's either by accident or some personal design. We have chafed at their use of the civil rights lingo and said how dare you? You don't even know what this was about. If it wasn't for me and the 1964 Civil Rights Act, you wouldn't be here. It's that", "you haven't said thank you. You know, the whole thing South Africa was about. Own up to who helped you do X, Y and Z. On the other side, immigrants don't see African Americans taking advantage of this place. They can't see redlining the stuff about credit and the design. That is not obvious.", "Yes. Okay? It's something that they kind of have to be shown, and then their thing would be, look, why can't you figure a way around this? Why haven't you figured a way round this? So you have people looking at the same thing from two very different points of view. I think challenges to get them to be honest. They see our boys and girls.", "girls acting like they're pole dancers in the street. You see their kids taking off the scarves and everything else, like what is his name? Adnan Saeed and smoking pot during Ramadan talking about I'm going to put this joint out so I can go break fast. People are seeing the underbelly of each side but still trying to present", "and they have to have a ser no, they can't do that in that panel. But what you can do is lay out the contours and make a commitment to have future conversations right? Which perhaps we can do in a webinar. Inshallah, inshallah. You know I really do appreciate all of your wisdom and your direction and it's unfortunate that we can't have you there again. And well, I want to try my best next time around too.", "inshallah give all this life and shall not to make it you know so that that you can be there as a matter of fact, you know we I'm sorry. You should show this recording to your board. Yes. I will I would definitely they're going to see it and And so really really shall are looking forward to continuing to work with you So dr. Amina McLeod appreciate the time in and may Allah grant you she pop", "uh you know we're in cure to make you even make you stronger physically stronger you know and if not you know just leave you know this of course you know keep us in your prayers and looking forward to working with you in the future tell that bad boy of yours" ]
amina_mccloud/Aminah McCloud and Nadeem Siddiqi _ MAS ICNA 2014_ke6KpqWVx1w&pp=ygUVQW1pbmFoIE1jQ2xvdWQgIGlzbGFt_1742897661.opus	[ "بسم الله الرحمن الرحيم الحمد لله رب العالمين الصلاة والسلام على أشرف الأنبياء والمرسلين السلام عليكم", "So we have changed the format of this session as we came on stage and Dr. McCloud had these great ideas like, hey you know what instead of these static speeches We'll do a couple introductory words but let's have a real conversation and let's get everybody involved so As we're doing his introductory remarks and as we are having this conversation right now", "We encourage each and every one of you to think of questions, something that's on your mind. And we're told there are folks with cards that are walking around. Write your question down. And should be able to collect that real time and discuss it on stage right away. So we hope to have a real conversation with the audience rather than just having a straight talk. Just to give you some time, a couple introductory remarks here so that we're all on the same page.", "This issue of justice, you know, is this something a side issue that we do because it's nice to do? Or is this the same thing or is this what is central to our faith? Something that is core to your Iman without which your IMAN would be incomplete. Allah SWT reminds us in Surah An-Nisa where He says", "O you who believe, stand out firmly for justice as witnesses to Allah even as against yourselves or your parents or your kin. Justice is not a side issue. You have to stand up for justice everywhere, for everyone.", "even if it's against yourselves or your parents. Can you imagine? You have to be just. And Allah SWT goes even beyond that, where He tells us in Surah Al-Ma'idah, where he says,", "Believers, be upright bearers of witness to Allah and do not let the enmity of any people move you to deviate from justice. Act justly. That is nearer to God-fearing. And fear Allah. Surely Allah is well aware of what you do. So in this second verse, Allah SWT is expanding that you have to be just even for your enemies. You cannot mistreat your enemies", "mistreat, if you are unjust to your enemies. You will be answerable for that on the day of judgment.\" When the Prophet started his mission and throughout his mission he said these are the downtrodden, these are folks who are oppressed. Did he say oh these are my Muslim brothers and sisters? These are people from my village, these", "He stood for justice, for every single person in the community. Just stop and pause and think about that for a second. You know when the issues happened overseas? When the bombardment of Gaza took place? It broke our hearts! We had marches on the streets! And it was very good. It was awesome.", "I hope we have more of those. We've been working very hard for the issue of Syria, for many different issues but when Ferguson happened, when the grand jury in New York came out and said yeah we're not going to do anything, when a 12 year old in Cleveland was shot down", "I ask you, I ask us are we participating in those? Is this still our issue or is this somebody else's issue? Is justice my issue as a Muslim or is justice now well it kind of depends right if the guy has", "comes from a certain background, if I have all of these preconditions and then it will be my issue. Be very, very honest. Be Very, very Honest because you know what? It is much better for us to ask this question today rather than standing before Allah tomorrow and have to answer that same question and perhaps we may not have the best of answers", "answers something to reflect on just a few thoughts so let this conversation going inshallah Salam alaikum I think that since we decided to have a conversation that we should do our best to put everything on an even keel and I think one of the questions", "not things changed, perhaps in the black community. With regard to a persistent and ever-present police existence where young black kids meet the police just as they do in Gaza and another places all day every day. We've not had the fundamentals of a conversation honestly so we can see", "we can see where communities stand. And in listening to some of the younger than I among you, I have heard lots of confusions, lots of how do I support for those who want to support and what is going on? And I think a part of our conversation today has", "systematic repression of peoples around the world. Injustices, be they in Ferguson or New York or Cleveland or Berkeley or somewhere else are no different than the injustices that go on in the occupied territories but what this system does is it divides and conquers", "and say no we see all of the oppressions some we can do something about others we can't so I remembered reading an article let me see if I can pull it up for you this works I can't see to be to the AV desk", "PowerPoint on the screen in front so the doctors can see. Thank you. If you look, who's in the front lines here? There are certainly Palestinians and other Arabs, African Americans,", "going on here. It's not single instances of violence. We've been everywhere, but everybody is not as informed perhaps as they should be. So these were pictures that a young photographer and I don't know where Shireen is in here took and they're just wonderful pictures,", "show how some of us are getting around. All of us need to get around. So in that, I started thinking about what has happened here? If anything in the modern era, the occupied territories serve as teachers for young blacks", "in the United States. And there are things that are done, I can't see the screen. There are things they're done to destroy those constitutional freedoms that we all think we have and that will live forever. What's the first one? One of the things that was done as spoken about by Samuel", "in our introduction was this invoking of a terrifying enemy within and without. After 9-11, that was done and it continues to be done. Every time we think we can breathe something else happens. And it is ratcheted up to the point where we find no escape.", "Homeland Security until after 9-11. People have always put the word homeland and security with Nazi Germany, and we may just be becoming that but that's where it is. What does this say? We have to create gulags. Gulags have been created all over the occupied territories", "in the United States. For those of you here in Chicago, it's the south side of Chicago. It's many small suburban communities. It is not that people don't want to come out of them they are not free to do so because what happens when they come out is we then create...", "thugs masquerading as policemen, sometimes they are policemen. Sometimes there's SWAT teams other times there's private security firms who come and keep the people inside of their particular gulag. There is a gulags in every city and town in the United States. Most of the time we think that it", "think that if we put the proper protocols on our cell phones and computers, and we put up all of the securities on our Facebook pages and Instagram pages, that we're protecting ourselves. We have to think about that things are available at all to surveil you. You're given a semblance", "not a real protection and security. The best way to surveil any group of people today is to use their cell phones. We have lights on poles, cameras on poles etc. What does this say?", "a most recent victim of this, of the campaign to harass citizens groups. It is to make you scared to give to support the work of Mass ICHNA or CARE or ISNA or whatever by being fearful that you'll be put on some list somewhere. Trust me, you're already", "But we have to begin to strike back at those campaigns against us. There is an ongoing engagement in detention and release. In certain communities, there've been some battles fought and people released in other cases they've been detained and deported.", "still have men who are in and suffering through renditions. We still have people detained, we still haven't closed Guantanamo and a part of the reason why we have not is because we have also seen ourselves as Muslim citizens in this place demanding what is right.", "ways are targeting of key individuals. Barack Obama has in some instances tried to play a fair card and has gotten angst back. We have others inside our communities who stand up, they should never stand alone. One of the other things that has come front", "front and center since 9-11 is that dissent now equals treason. There are certainly sedition laws on the books in the United States, but dissent is a hallmark of both the free press and the freedom of speech. And if there all, there loads of us saying hands up don't shoot we can't breathe they", "they can't arrest all of us. If it's a few, they get to isolate and then arrest. So think about it. And it's also true that all of are not supposed to be on the front lines. Allah subhanahu wa ta'ala gave us all gifts. Some of us have the gifts like Mr. Offendum", "others do, soup kitchens deploy all of our gifts toward what we know is right and just. The Quran created us differently so that we would be challenged to come and know one another. All of us—well put it like this—none of us do that on a regular basis because", "to do. We have so many of our own personal issues to handle, never thinking that we may get some insight from someone else. So let me just open it up so that we can get to our conversation and we have some questions. Thank you.", "So a number of you have been writing questions down on all kinds of things ranging from receipts to small scraps of paper. I have them here, we are collecting them. Our hope is to get through every single one of them but of course there are going to be repeats so if you don't hear your question please know that we did try to include it or that we have at least incorporated it in another question. What's gonna happen for the next 25-30 minutes is I will be asking the questions that you've asked and they will", "of one another and hopefully teaching you. And yes, please keep the questions coming. We're going to spend about two to three minutes per question so we can get through as many as we can. The first question is a very general one. I think it's a very good introductory question. How do you protest or raise awareness in a predominantly white or Republican society?", "So there's an assumption in the question. The question again was how do you protest or raise awareness in a predominantly Republican or white society? You've made an assumption that the society is predominantly white or Republican. Is society predominantly", "predominantly white or Republican? And when you say white, it's a very general class of people. There are a lot of good people who are whites, who care for justice and there are people as Dr. McLeod just mentioned from the Muslim community itself who claim to be Muslims and yet the amount of damage that they do is far greater so I think we need", "by a simple color code, but recognize that there is some institutionalized level of control and racism that's at play. And who are the players who make that happen? You may find that a lot of them are Caucasians, white background, but we will also find they're people from the African American background. They're people form the South Asian background, people from Arab backgrounds, people", "immigrant backgrounds who came in knowingly or unknowingly have become part of the system and are actively suppressing others. We have to open our eyes to that, and not say well it's just the whites I gotta worry about. No! We need to know how we're being suppressed, who are the players who are suppressing, and then be able to take appropriate action. Knowing", "We have to have some level of a free mind, a free spirit. We have recognize that we are servants of Allah. Are we fearful of the day when we will stand before Allah or are we fearful Of the day that we have to stand before somebody else on this planet? When the Prophet stood up for justice", "And he was ridiculed and he was attacked in Mecca. And people went to war because of what? Essentially a cause for justice. He was boycotted and his whole family for three whole years as we know in the valley. For what, three whole year did he stop? Who do we fear? So when we say even if the whole world was oppressive,", "Do we really fear Allah SWT? If so, then we have to be ready to act. I really don't care what other people will say or think. I have to stand before Allah and say, Ya Rabb, I did everything within my power. If all within my", "to write, I knew how to draw. I wrote articles, I drew cartoons, I brought people's attention to the issue as a teacher, as an educator. I educated the next generation on the systematic process of institutionalized racism that exists. I did it. Are we doing all of that is the question that we have to answer. We don't have to worry about who's majority or whose minority. Can we stand before Allah and say", "before Allah and said I did everything I could. Okay so you guys have actually been bringing a lot of questions, so now we don't think we can get through all of them but we will do our best to address the ones that yeah okay so here are a few questions I'll ask these two questions together. The first is as an attorney and this may require some background providing", "both recent instances, and we're referring to Mike Brown's case and Eric Garner's case for those who are unfamiliar had grand juries who decided against the charges. Is this not better than trial by media? After all, we have been victims of this too. This is one question. And the second question I will ask is this individual says he or she wholeheartedly agrees that Palestine and Ferguson are extremely similar issues. However many seem to have voiced the opinion", "both of the issues are ineffective because they demand unrealistic goals. And then they point to the civil rights movement and its very realistic and seemingly tangible goals, what do you think about this? Do you agree?", "Grand juries don't charge people as whoever the attorney was who wrote the question. Grand jury's refer a case to a jury trial and in both of these instances, well in several there have been quite a few since the initial ones back in the summer,", "There have been some claims made about the fact that prosecutors and grand juries work very closely together, and that is true. What didn't happen immediately after the grand jury which is handing no indictment was a global or national or local uproar that could not be denied.", "Let me try to impart a little history, although I'm hesitant to do this in this forum. Protests look like a lot of people being angry in a diffuse sort of way.", "several decades ago when black folks decided they had enough of hopping off the streets and crossing over the streets, when white people walked down the street. They got tired of not being able to eat in restaurants just because the restaurant was there. The mounting protests—one set of them—was a civil rights protest. Did they go somewhere? Well absolutely!", "Well, absolutely. They opened the doors of immigration so that lots of you sitting in the audience could come here. They passed a Voter's Rights Act. The tentacles that come from protests which roll on down a slope gathering speed and people and ideas about what a just and good society to look like are enormous.", "So just protesting at the moment, it's not a thing of getting the police out of communities. It is getting to police to act by their mandate which is to protect and serve, not call and kill. Two very different things. Thank you.", "A quick add to what Dr. McLeod said, when you think of these things as being ineffective if somebody thinks that many people point to the uprisings in Gaza over time and Palestine as being effective and you ask yourself after 10 15 20 years was it ineffective or has it brought so much attention to the cause that has actually become extremely effective little kids on", "at full grown adults with fully automatic machine guns. You'd think that's nuts, should we do it? Was it effective? People question the BDS movement, divestment boycott sanctions, boycott divestments sanctions, BDS movements that has been going on in campuses and is picking up a lot of steam", "Israeli companies or Israeli goods, we're not going to invest over there. People laughed and said hey what's that gonna do? Was it effective? It's so much effective that now Israel has a full-time lobby to make BDS illegal in the United States they're trying to push a law through Congress that if you participate in this you will get in trouble was that effective absolutely don't say going to a protest march going to rally is not effective", "to another, leads to another. It builds up quite a lot. Wonderful. The next two questions are these. The first is what is the best way for groups like the Muslim Students Association, Students for Justice in Palestine or other similarly socially conscious groups? What is the thing for them to do? And obviously that means regarding showing their solidarity with those in Ferguson and elsewhere.", "The second question, which was interestingly enough given to us on a closed tag. It's nice that you have that with you. Thank you. I have a hard time connecting Islam and justice. How do I stop seeing Islam as just for worship? And how do I connect it to social justice? What is an apolitical MSA?", "I've never heard of an apolitical MSA. As soon as they organized, they were political. So I'm not quite sure if they mean that they think they can be silent and graduate. Who asked that question?", "campus organization is political. So, I'm lost. I don't know what that means. Let me connect these two questions that came together right? The second one was how do I have a hard time connecting Islam and justice? How do I stop seeing Islam as just worship and connected to social justice? And I think the two are connected in some ways if you understand Islam as", "worshiping Allah as in doing your five prayers, fasting and paying zakat and so forth. You have a partial understanding of Islam. And I say that with all honesty. We really have to explore what Islam is. The Prophet when he started his mission, he started with justice. He didn't start with y'all have to pray now. Everybody has to fast. That came later.", "The first thing was treat people well. Why are the orphans being mistreated? Why are women being mistreat? Why do these people turn into a slave class? The first that Islam brought was honesty and justice, it is a call for justice. Our whole Islamic understanding and ideology pushes us towards justice.", "from the Quran where Allah is commanding us to stand for justice. If you don't stand for Justice, the prayers are... You know, you gotta wonder what were you praying for? Allah will ask you, you prayed! Did you act on the prayer? Did you do anything about it? And so when you collect yourself as Muslims,", "question as Dr. McLeod asked, how are you apolitical? The fact that you are a Muslim automatically means you stand for something. You stand for a cause. You stands for justice for everybody. You Stand for honesty. You Stands for truth. Being a Muslim by definition means you stands for something there's no apolitic thing about it. You have to stand for it if you don't stand", "I think we need to go back and understand them a little bit better. So these next two questions are the following, what about the race issues in our mosques? It's a very valid question, thank you for asking that. And the second thing is how do we convince or compel the Muslim leaders", "in our communities to spend financially and work politically to support black Muslim America. So the first question of race within the community, we have to be very honest that's why", "change this whole conference format of this session and say you know what we want to have a conversation let's be honest real talk honest brutal real talk because when we are six foot under when the angels come down and I start asking those questions it will be straight up real talk when we're standing before Allah SWT it will not be able to play around and answer questions in fancy ways does racism exist within especially", "the immigrant Muslim community? Absolutely. It astounds me, and I made this in my opening remarks last night. The audacity some people have to look around and say, to use that word, and please don't misunderstand and think these are older people coming from the bilad and they're still using this word. No, these are young people just a couple of days ago", "of days ago on Facebook you know that you have a whole series of conversations happening young people say yeah so what one Abid died referring to Fergus Ferguson to Mike Brown so what so many people in Gaza died why should I care like seriously that's the mindset we have with that mindset we will be standing before Allah SWT and being", "When Allah says that the death of one person is equivalent to the death humanity. There's no limit here, you know? You gotta reach a critical mark here. A hundred people have to die before I consider this. Maybe a thousand people have died before I considered it. No, no! One person dies in an unjust fashion we are responsible here. We could've done something about it. Does racism exist within our community? Yes. Do we act on it? Do we stop? No.", "No. There's a whole tiering. Everybody looks at each other and says, and be very honest, you know, ask yourself some questions, some very serious questions. Here you go. When you think, close your eyes and think of a good, honest person, think of role model. What's the image that comes to your mind?", "a drug dealer, or a thug? What's the image that comes to your mind?\" And then you ask yourself why. Right and I'm projecting that you may have certain images. When we look at somebody is sitting in the middle of Idaho doesn't understand Islam, doesn't understands Muslims, and that person just listening to Fox and CNN and watching all this and it's very anti-Islam and says all Muslims are terrorists what's", "Muslims doesn't understand Islam. You know if I can just have this conversation and just be myself, I can explain as soon as that person interacts with the Muslims they will know just who we really are How many African Americans do we seriously interact with on a regular basis or Are these images? Just like those folks get images from Fox and CNN We've all been fed images from somewhere else", "somewhere else and we're making these generalized statements and saying those people ask does racism exist absolutely do we take the step to go out and reach and try to understand no man I can't go to South Side of Chicago it's dangerous all right maybe not South Side right fine sorry cool go somewhere else but do", "Where do you get these? Is it some ideas that we have in our mind that's pushing us or are we actively educating ourselves and saying I have to combat this racism that exists within me, and I not somebody else. I have cross the barrier first internally and then I can act on something else.", "all of them have a deal of, if not racism, intolerance. I think most of the time it's not even conscious. I am most comfortable with those who speak like me look like me and I think who value what I value. What we don't learn however is that there are others in other communities", "and value what you value. How do we change that? And I think in this instance, everybody has to become an emissary of sorts themselves. If there are some people who you're hanging around with, invite them to the community. Have them over. Have", "that you have to be best friends, but what it does mean is you will leave knowing something about the other. One of the things that I think brings communities together and one of the thing that disturbs me a great deal is we talk about the occupied territories", "the border with Turkey, but we don't do anything. And there's some very concrete things we can do in the same way that the Christian churches are taking in the orphan of our children. Our masajid should take in the orphans of our own. We can as a religious group just", "kids here, whether it's for medical treatment, whether families can be reunified or whatever it is. It is a part of their mission to raise those children as Christians. My question would be why are we choosing to let them do that and not have a stake in the game ourselves?", "ethnicities together. And that's a fundamental way, you can't say you care and your care only reside inside your own family. Thank you for those answers. The next few questions are addressed individually. The first question is to Dr. McLeod. Many have voiced the phrase or", "can only be expressed by those of the black community. Is it insensitive to make this issue our own? Supporting is one thing, but co-opting the struggle is another one.\" Can we have your thoughts on that? That's your question and for Dr. Sadiq... Okay, we'll have you answer that question and then we'll get back.", "attack, but the I can't breathe is when the pressure's on you are far too much for you to bear. In our communities some of the young folk in this room were born right around 9-11. They haven't been able to breathe since they left the womb because we put them in a situation where forces acting outside of our homes and our communities", "life just unbearable. They can't breathe either. Many of us, because we don't have the needed counseling services and psychological services inside our communities are trying to play pretend nothing is happening. You know—oh I hate to say how old I am but anyway in 1967 when I heard for the first time", "into Fata probably could not have spelled it but folk were talking about this group over here is coming to take the land and they're killing these people over there we left our college campuses and hit the streets did we know where the occupied territories were some of us did some of them didn't. We went to the streets because", "adversities, just like they were back then involved in apartheid. We were willing to forego the education to shut it down. You can't say you stand for justice and be willing to sacrifice nothing if he can't breathe I can't breath because we're in the same atmosphere. I've got to move to help him", "What is at stake if we don't band together? What is that steak our Humanity's at Stake as simple as that Our humanity is at Stakes If you're willing to let somebody else suffer", "place and my neighbor dies of hunger? If you're okay having nice clothes, and somebody else freezes to death. If you are okay being able to walk on the street and somebody gets harassed every single time and is made to do certain things. I would ask what kind of human beings is that? Where is our humanity? The Prophet repeatedly", "repeatedly would ask us to do things for our neighbors, for our friends, for other people. He never once said you know be good to your Muslim neighbor. No! Your neighbors have a right upon you. There's no question of what religion or what background they come from. Our humanity is at stake if we don't understand this and come together. I also want to come back to a question that was asked earlier, and I think I may have misunderstood slightly", "If you don't act on your belief, it's so theoretical. And so you have to act and that action is all about social justice. That is how we frame ourselves, that's how we look at ourselves, and that's what we conduct our lives altogether. What can we do about it? There are several things that we can do about this. The very first thing we can is educate ourselves. Do we recognize this issue? Do we recognise this as a problem?", "Do I know any of the history? Do I understand what's going on? Even if you're just studying the history of the United States. How many people in the audience have read People's History of the U.S by Howard Zinn? Just raise your hand. People's history of The United States, not too many because again we come through the school system and are fed a specific understanding of history. Write this down.", "the United States by Howard Zinn, Z-I-N-N. It gives you a very different alternative perspective of history of the United states than what is taught in general schools. We need to educate ourselves. What are the issues at stake here? Second we have to start examining our own biases be very honest this is for our own benefit it's not going to help her it's gonna help him it's going to", "it. Third, with that knowledge start recognizing the stereotypes that are happening around us. With that knowledge and I see oh wow why is it that 80% of my class in college is made off a certain background? It makes you think, makes you want to act get out of your comfort zones find allies you don't have to do everything yourself so many other people the churches others", "Don't try to overshadow, but participate and learn. That will lead to another step and inshallah lead to a new step down the path. Thank you for that answer. We have one more question and this is going to be to Dr. Ammon McLeod. And after that we'll ask the two speakers to briefly summarize their points if there's any last minute thoughts they'd like to share with you. But as I was reading through these questions and I did my best to be fair about it,", "continue to come up and that question was how can we as Muslims even fathom to get involved if really the problem is black on black violence? I'd like Dr. Emma McLeod to address this issue. It's a question it comes up all the time, and one is that you remember the slide I showed you on the gulag", "done has begun to eat each other. The parents and the grandparents have not ratcheted down the violence, they have not gone onto the streets and grabbed their children back because it's wanton violence. It has become my turf is the width of my two feet next to each other that", "sure that if you could tweet them something, they would be more than grateful. We have ex-gangbangers coming into communities trying to raise awareness. It's not working. It is too far out of control and this is one of the places where we as Muslims can in our standing for what", "some additional thoughts. Come in, treat it as your own community. On the south side or west side of Chicago where we have seen corner stores selling drugs letting young people hang out another organization Iman has stepped in to negotiate with the store owners there been lots up the young people who are in this room today", "there but there needs to be more. When you want to see why a life is not valued, help work a health clinic. Teach people or reteach them about the value of family. Thank you. As-salamu alaykum. All right my last comment, my thought change does not come overnight. You're", "are going to stay in our hearts, that's okay. But we have to keep working at it. We have to work at it, so don't let it get you down. Are we striving? The bottom line question would be do I care? Am I just? Can I stand before my Lord and answer for my deeds on the day when nothing else will count? Can i?" ]
amina_mccloud/Aplikasi Metode Hermeneutika _Penafsiran Amina Wad_yIzxtBp5g1A&pp=ygURQW1pbmEgV2FkdWQgaXNsYW0%3D_1742944643.opus	[ "Assalamualaikum warahmatullahi wabarakatuh Saya Karunia Hazimara Mahasiswa ilmu Al-Quran dan Tafsir Disini saya akan menjelaskan mengenai penafsiran Ibu Aminawadud atas Quran Surat Anisa ayat 34 dengan pendekatan Hermenitika Gadamer Menurut Ibu Aminawadod tidak ada penafsyiran atas Al-Kuran yang bersifat definitif sehingga Al-Кuran harus terkait", "harus terus menerus ditafsirkan. Pada ayat ini kita akan belajar pada kata Arrijalu Kauwamu Na'alan Nisa, itu saja. Ibu Aminah Wadud mengacu pada teori dan langkah-langkah operasional Hermenetika Dialogis Gadamer dia menawarkan tiga langkah penafsiran yang pertama yaitu analisis bahasa", "Dan yang ketiga yaitu pandangan dunia. Nah, yang pertama yaitulah analisis bahasa. Menurut Ibu Aminawadud bahwa kata Ar-Rijal dan An-Nisa dalam Quran Surat An- Nisa ayat 34, disitu hanya bicara mengenai spesies saja. Dimana disitu Allah mengkaruniakan pada masing-masing Ar- Rijal", "Hanyalah ketakwaannya saja Langkah yang kedua yaitu analisis konteks Dimana Ibu Aminah Wadud disini Sepakat terhadap pendapat Muhammad Abduh Nah, menurut Muhammad Abдуh Kata akwam itu diartikan kepemimpinan Nah, kepemimpinan yang dimaksud disni Yaitu dalam artian menjaga, melindungi Dan mencukupi kebutuhan Apabila ketiga hal ini dapat dilakukan", "ini dapat dicukupi atau dapat ditegakkan maka konsekuensinya seseorang itu akan mendapat warisan lebih daripada pihak yang lain nah tetapi perlu digarisbawahi bahwa kepemimpinan yang dimaksud disini yaitu kepemimpinan yang sifatnya demokratis di mana kepemiminan tersebut memberikan kebebasan untuk bertindak menurut aspirasi dan kehendaknya", "dan kehendaknya sendiri nah itu Ibu Aminah Wadud sepakat atas hal tersebut Nah, Ibu Aamina wadud juga menjelaskan bahwa pada zaman dahulu itu kesadaran perempuan pada saat itu masih sangat rendah dan pekerjaan domestik dianggap adalah itu pekerjanan peremuan yang menempel pada pereumpuan. Yang kedua yaitu laki-laki menganggab dirinya sendiri lebih unggul daripada", "Disebabkan kekuasaan dan kemampuan mereka mencari nafkah dan menghidupi perempuan yang hidup bersamanya Menurut Ibu Aminah Wadud, mengapa Mufasir Klasik itu mengartikan bahwa Arijenu Kawamuna Al-Nisa itu sebagai laki-laki adalah pemimpin perembuan Karena pada saat itu peremmuan itu tidak memiliki akses sehingga untuk meningkatkan kualitas dirinya pereмuan itu", "dia tidak terlepas dari konstruk budaya patriarki Terima kasih dan semoga bermanfaat Wassalamualaikum Wr. Wb" ]
amina_mccloud/Black Muslim Students Conference_ Dr Aminah Al Dee_x1vR5y2Ona4&pp=ygUVQW1pbmFoIE1jQ2xvdWQgIGlzbGFt_1742896758.opus	[ "All right, I think we are live.", "We are. At least I am getting messages that we can be seen by other people, so we will go ahead and get started. Salaam everyone and thank you for your patience with getting workshops running and started for the day. So we are super excited to have Dr Amina Eldeen with us today she is a professor emerita of Islamic studies in the department of religious studies at DePaul University. She's the first and only black woman to start the first undergraduate baccalaureate program in Islamic world", "and chief of the Journal of Islamic Law and Culture. Her book publications include African American Islam, Questions of Faith, Transnational Muslims in America, Introduction to Islam in the 21st Century, Global Muslims in the 24th Century, History of Arab Americans, Exploring Diverse Roots in Muslim Ethics in the 25th Century. And Dr. Eldeen is a senior Fulbright scholar and advisory board member of the Institute for Social and Policy Understanding,", "Islamic College Executive Board Member of IMAN, which is the Inner City Muslim Action Network and the American editor for the Muslim minorities in the West series for Brill Publishers. She's also an editor of Anthropology Open Access Journal. So that was just a little bit of a recap for anyone who is not familiar but Dr. Eldeen your list goes on and on and I think there's a lot of wisdom that comes from having any kind", "someone who has reached your stature in society, whether that is being a published author or being involved in academic studies which I think something that a lot of Black Muslims aspire to do and be in those spaces. But I think we mentioned in our student panel it's not always just the success stories that we see like here are the publications, here are journals, whatever it may be in these spaces so what do you feel was the moment when you felt yes I'm making", "making something and I'm making it happen that shifted from the struggles and challenges that you had getting to this point? Salam alaikum. That's a big, big question. I was talking with some girlfriends of mine", "There are different struggles when you want to make a difference. I'll put it like that. So which one do you want me to talk about? Let's talk about making a difference, is that something you aspired to do from the beginning or just happened along the way? It just happened on the way mostly because I didn't know how I could", "and finishing my dissertation at the same time, and being a little shell shocked at all of it. Trying to figure out how to put all of the things I had learned together for the African American community which I still work on all the time. And it's a struggle.", "the world of journals. And they are, that knowledge is largely inaccessible until you can get your foot in that door. A lot of very fascinating and thorough African-American writers don't get their foot in", "forthright and please call me. And let me see how I can help you. But it's also learning one of the things you learn in graduate school is how to take critique. For sure. And for these spaces that you have said that you had to get your foot in the door, how did you do that? How did you find those resources and avenues to even get you at the door?", "Well, you know, remarkably a lot manifested that while I was writing my dissertation the publishers came to me. How they knew I existed I have no clue but Routledge an editor from Routlage literally glued himself to me and you can write this book", "And I will help you do everything You ever needed to do And on top of that We will give you some up front money And I'm saying Oh my goodness well that's nice But I'm writing this dissertation And it was oh but you can also write This book So I got a little schizophrenic And began to do two But once the door Is open Others will Notice your work", "And then you get offers from other publishing companies. The other route is to finish a manuscript and then submit it for review to publishers. It is better to submit it to review from someone who is a mentor of yours first because you want to put your best foot forward. I think that", "university publishers and other publishers like Routledge or Oxford, people like that. It is better to have your mentor read whatever it is you think you want to publish first but I think the key to all of that is academic writing which is not...I mean if you want", "writing. That's a different kind of writing, which I don't do. But and then there's also fiction. And what you need is a mentor who does fiction, a mentor, who does biographical writing. So the next question is, you've mentioned that people came to you because of your dissertation. What was it about that people were reaching out to you to get that published? What was that looking like? The topics, themes anything like that?", "anything like that? Well, I think one of the things in Islamic studies there's very little philosophical methodology. And to get to that while I was studying, I had to dart out and take courses in philosophy, sociology, anthropology which added to an enormous course load but it enabled me to have", "a way to translate what I wanted to talk about. So publishers initially Routledge was very interested that I was using pieces of and extending the philosophy of people like Michelle Foucault, Derrida and Bourdieu", "I don't know if you know those names, but extending their philosophy in some senses correcting it and other senses to see how to look at Muslim communities particularly in that book African American Muslim communities. So we've talked a bit about your world in the publication realm of everything, but before you got there What was your life looking like?", "Like what was your, as we've mentioned the topic of this workshop is your journey in Islam. What did that look like? Or just like your journey to get to that point as well? Well, the program I was in was for me, I'm sure for some others as difficult, but in the program", "outside of the language we spoke. We had to do Islamic law, Kalam, we had to Islamic philosophy. We have to do a lot of stuff. So for me I was always overwhelmed, always losing my mind just a little bit, quitting every other week saying well I can go into interior design or something that at least", "least I can look at and it looks nice. One of the things that I found out, and learned to really be grateful for, I had wonderful mentors in undergraduate school while I was a science major. And I had an awesome array of mentors in graduate school from", "Hussain Nasser to Muhammad Ar-Kul. I mean, just in a way from traditionalist to modernists, from people who were fighting against the stagnation of thought in Islam to people who thought that traditional Arabic studies was the only way and then along the way", "and some West African Muslim scholars. So they broadened my scope, they made my task very difficult. It was for me coming from science to Islamic studies extremely difficult because humanities in itself was difficult.", "in the chat about the topics that you study. And then, the question is how do you prioritize the topics you study and write about? Do you write in response to current issues or questions you've always had? I try to do a range fortunately for me and I try extend that fortune. I never have to submit a manuscript and wait for somebody to say okay. So", "So it has been, people ask me to write texts about this that and the other. I've used articles more so to address issues. The book I'm working on now talks about Muslim healthcare workers in COVID-19 because part of my background is in medicine", "I was very interested in how Muslim health care workers using Islamic biomedical ethics were handling COVID-19, its patients, its shortcomings, bad media, absence of PPE, all of those things. So sometimes it's topical. Other times it's because I've been asked to write like the book on Arab Americans.", "was a real struggle because I had to learn about Orthodox Christianity. But it's in a tandem. Absolutely, and with your most recent being about COVID what are you seeing in terms of the Black Muslim community in response to COVID? Either in how it is affecting us or in how doctors are being able to actually inhabit these spaces as of late?", "Well, two realms. One, there is a dire, dire shortage of Muslim Black, I mean, well, Black African or African American Muslim physicians, nurses, nurse practitioners, physician's assistants. And that kind of shocked me because I thought", "as something that they could do. On the other hand, there is I want to say a quandary of African-American Muslims show up their African American first Muslim kind of second and the patient and the patients relatives especially if that patient is female have difficulties", "because they got to get stripped bare. And it's who is watching over me? What are their, and there's nobody there to attend to the spiritual questions which intersect with psychological questions. So it has been difficult. African-American Muslims are part of the larger African American community", "kind of the same numbers, especially those who don't believe they should wear a mask because Allah will take care of them or it is Allah's decree if I catch COVID, I catch it. And then they bring it home to elderly parents or other relatives who then die. Absolutely and it has been difficult to see. We have witnessed in our own communities", "just effects of being black in these spaces, not only with COVID but also with things like Black Lives Matter this past summer. And I think a lot of people are trying to find ways to support the communities that we're in and so what do you think is our best effort at supporting the communities who are actively on the front lines for us whether that's in terms of doctors or whether it's in term of the people protesting right now to make sure that black people in general but also black Muslims are prioritized?", "Oh, girl what did you do? You slept on these questions. Let me think. Black Lives Matter and the protests I was so happy I was almost jumping out of my skin. And it took me back to being a freshman and sophomore in college.", "I should take my values and really think through protest. And I made some decisions, you know? I see being Muslim as a struggle along the highway. And on that highway sometimes you're in the center lane other times you've drifted over into another lane and you have to auto correct", "on at the same time. And when I was in college, there was us, Milana Karanga's group running around. There were the Black Panthers. There was the Civil Rights Movement. And the only thing I kind of knew was that I thought, well, I thought I knew, was that the Civil", "And people are gonna stick dogs on you. And your responses, turn the other cheek. I didn't quite get that. So I joined the Black Panthers because that made more sense to me and it made sense to as a Muslim that justice delayed is no justice at all. But I was also fighting", "my role as a Muslim. You know, there were some things I was willing to talk about. There were other things I would make allies with and felt that I couldn't be allied with so it was always a negotiation. At the same time you had fraternities and sororityies and people who ignored everything that was happening. This time reminded me", "so much of that because many of us decided if I can't live, be free and whatever my religious dictates are then there is no sense in living here at all. I will fight until I die. And I saw that with some of the folks but also saw them not learning from my experiences which you have to have parameters", "You have to have a check on people who are there not to support you, but are there to cause you harm with the looting and taking advantage of a movement. And I remember reading from, I think her last name is Garcia, who was a co-founder of Black Lives Matter, that this is supposed", "Because change, real change has to happen. And the civil rights legislation, you know, legislation is nice. But if it's never enforced, it doesn't exist. So I mean as a Muslim, I did everything I can. I host a talk show on critical talk called Critical Talk Tuesday through Thursday. I try to bring young people what is the theater doing?", "theater doing? What should we know in the political room? How should we think about education? And as a slightly older person, I see that as something sitting. I can continue to do by getting voices out there. One of the questions we got was how has your activism influenced your research? A lot when I don't want to write", "I don't want to write, I write. I learned from Walter Mosley believe it or not that you have to write every day. I write every dead. I wrote throughout the day in pieces because I got so used to having kids all over me that I had to learn to write in pieces and keep a thought train", "trained in my head. But I write every day. I think it's important that we write because if we don't write, we don' t exist and that led me to make the Islam in America archive at DePaul because there has to be a place for us to research from. We have to have resources", "find African American Muslim institutions where I could begin to create a depository of writings, you know whether they're biographical, autobiographical pieces because the generations of Muslims in America amongst the African Americans there's no their pieces and they have to be", "And they have to be brought together because we tend to collect stuff and keep it in our basements, in our attics where one good fire, one good flood, one move and it's gone. But you have to leave a footprint. So you mentioned right then at the end which goes into great next question that we have of having one good move and then it's", "who are on their journey of figuring out Islam and their relationship to that, whether it is in terms of wanting to do academic studies in the ways that you have or just inhabiting these spaces as well. So what would your advice be for young Muslims who may stumble along the way or may have their one good moment and then start feeling like they're not there anymore and that their faith has shaken?", "of it, I never speak of converts because that's a Christian term. That really doesn't apply to an Islamic journey and I prefer to think of it as a highway that you hop on, you know some things, you don't know others. There has been an Arabic hegemony so everybody runs off and they try to learn Arabic and learn a lot about dead Arab scholars", "But that doesn't seat you if you're African American. So on that highway, and I've talked about this in my classes, you know, if you can picture the lanes on a highway, you start off, you're good. Many of us started off taking the Quran to prayer with us because we hadn't memorized anything.", "We didn't enter into that genderized field because it was who learned what first, who could lead the prayer, for example. And we moved along and then sometimes whether it was a family thing or this, that, and the other, we had people from other cultures telling us, oh, well, if your family's not Muslim, then you got to cut them loose.", "That is not happening here because I want to inherit something if it's not anything more than a bracelet. You know, no. And then there was a real push to change your name. You're now what I'm saying? Oh my God, how people going to locate you in your family? How are you gonna know your nieces and nephews that all of the, you go to college,", "And you may get out of that center lane on the highway and dip over to the shoulder. You know, your car has run out of gas and you have to go over to this shoulder. And while you're waiting for some assistance, you explore what's on the shoulder and then you pray. Lots of time people talk about holding the rope and the rope is something that has to be cultivated", "cultivated. It has strands, something that you can hold on to and people who are welcoming you back. They always have to be there despite your little exit to welcome you back and then take what you have learned and put it in the pot of knowledge. You know,", "seen Islam become a bit of a turnstile with women saying, oh my God I got brains and I got sense you're putting me in the back of places what is up with that? This is not what Islam is supposed to be isn't it right? I've seen young men get so immersed in one portion", "one teeny tiny portion of Islamic studies that they lose the sense. I've seen young people teaching for 30 years, I think I've said just about it all folk who say okay my parents came from, I don't know name a country colonial leavings led us to communism or socialism", "socialism. And now I've decided, I want to get back to the religious portion and there's nowhere to go. I've seen the develop my house was a third space for a while. And I listened, didn't talk, but listen, uh, to young people's, um, conversations over sexuality, over marriage,", "with my life. Everybody doesn't have to be a professor, everybody doesn't need to be an Islamic scholar. What they do have to do is seat themselves slowly and firmly because if you seat yourself quickly, you're going to hop out of the seat. So seat yourself slowly and firm in Islam. It's very obvious that there's some shaking up going on in these communities where people are questioning certain", "questioning certain aspects of Islam that are making these communities a challenge for young Muslims to create. Say more about that, what's shaking it up? Of just having people who are having questions of faith right now and having- I'm bothering you. No, no, you're not bothering me at all because I mean, right now we're in the middle of a pandemic. We're seeing everything going on in the world that people are saying why is this happening?", "I have, you know for some people thinking that they've done everything right and yet we're in the middle of a pandemic and we're In the middle as you know a pull off the hallway an exit that they weren't expecting so how do we as young Muslims get ourselves back on that highway? And also to continue to foster these communities that are on the ground that have built us up That are currently shaken", "When you read the Quran, one of the things that you read with respect to the prophets is prophets coming to people. People questioning and challenging those prophets. Apparently there are some people that get the message and there are others that don't. But everybody experiences a reckoning. And this pandemic is a reckonic.", "is a reckoning. It's out of your control. We have prayed in our dua and other prayers for justice, for leveling. And then when God on God's terms provides that we get upset. It is not about your thinking", "Because that's your thinking. Only Allah knows, but it is also what the pandemic doesn't know race. The pandemic doesn' t know class. The Pandemic doesn't no religion. So if you wanted to think about it one would think about why", "why do we pray for something and when it comes, we're unable to use the time for reflection. And it is a reflection. Is my Islam superficial or has it really come to sit on my heart? Do I use the vicar to calm myself? You know, how", "How is this shaping me? So I would say since we are getting close on time, a great question for young Muslims who are working through their path in Islam is what is the best piece of advice that you have received or been given that has sculpted the person you are today and the journey that you've been on.", "You know, I got to. That is so darn difficult. I'm thinking that the best advice I got was from Dr. Suleiman Yang. He was on my dissertation committee. I didn't go to Howard. But one of the things he told me is that African-Americans have to be African-American.", "Their history is important. You're not Arabs. You don't need to look like Arabs. And he was very adamant about, don't mimic somebody else's culture. Develop your own African-American Islam. I think that was the best piece of advice I got. And in terms of your academia, what do you feel has been the shifting moment for you?", "This is where the academia is being, like the advice that you were given then that helped you progress yourself into a renowned author and an incredible professor. I was learning about the various Islamic cultures out there studying Chinese Islam, studying Indonesian Islam, Southeast Asian Islam, West African and East African Islam", "and looking how Islam settled in culture, and people made Islam their own. Not somebody else's. That kind of shifted me. Yeah? We have a couple more minutes because we had a networking session cut off so I have a few questions for you if you have the time. There was someone in the comments who asked", "Can you speak on the impact of Islamophobia or anti-Muslim hatred and discrimination on the right to freedom of thought, consciousness of religion or belief? Can you repeat the last part of that again? So the full question was can you speak about the impact in Islamophobia", "I think Islamophobia is an inappropriate term. It's not a hatred of Islam, it's anti-Muslim bigotry and I think because we have let African American Islam be conflated with immigrant Islam they're conflated on a lot of terms the beheadings in Nice will cause anti-muslim bigoty here", "as a community done more than say, oh we condemn. That doesn't mean anything. It's the same as people saying I condemn racism and then I go on about being a racist but you know so I mean we have to say what it is that should be. The condemnation alone is not alone. I think freedom of speech", "have to realize how this country has permitted some things, you know. Freedom of speech and freedom of religion. We're free to practice as Muslims. Trying to force religion into the public space is going to get the same backlash as trying to force Christianity in the public", "we want religion in schools, it's not going to be Islam. It's going to Christianity. When we want the courts to consider Christianity now we have a majority Catholic Supreme Court. We've not paid attention to federal judges and their personal religious beliefs are going", "the people need to go to law school. They needs a clerk and they need to become some of those judges. So just continuing on that thought, you just left us on how can young Muslims as minorities combat these institutions and systems that are working against us? I think we need... I'm gonna go back to mentorship which will help in planning.", "I have seen attempts at our own institutions. One initiative that I like very much is the lamppost educational initiative because it prevents a diversity of thought, but I think since we have chosen to be here,", "for that self kind of intellectual satisfaction. We have to pair that with seeking some spiritual satisfaction, both for ourselves as individuals and what will help our communities. During this volume on COVID we've realized that we are not in the places we want to be. We've left our caretaking to others which is insane.", "So this will be the last question just because it's a two-part question, might be a little bit tricky. But what do you see as the biggest issue that Black Muslims are facing right now? And how do you think we solve it? I would say then we haven't developed our own understanding of", "of the Muslim sources out there. We have accepted only Arab sources as our guide and the Arab world is in chaos so that I don't know if that guidance is all that we need to take from. I think one of the base questions, well one of", "by others than African Americans. Self-published books will not be in the libraries going forward. They will not need online resources for the kids behind, even your kids when they go, they will find books by others talking about us and there is a master narrative", "you know, that fits into a larger Black master narrative. So I think the hegemonies of there's been a Protestantation of Islam. We have surely even with the term convert brought and sinned we've brought Christianity to sit at the center of Islam without evaluation", "in immigrant Islam, which is contentious in and of itself. Because these are colonized people that are not post anything. And I don't know that we want that to be Islamic America. I definitely agree with you on that. Never letting other people dictate the agendas that we're working on.", "just before we were running into the next workshop. So I would just like to thank you for being here with us today, Dr. Al-Din. I think that anyone here has gained something from your wisdom and your experience and having that be a formulating point in their own personal journey is to finding new ways of discovering Islam whether that is on the African American agenda or whether that's on the realm of academics and general as well so thank you so much for your time and for being", "Well, thank you for having me. And I would just like to say for those in the audience get a mentor so you can have a plan like yesterday and many, almost all of us speaking are willing and up to the task with the pandemic. We don't we, you know, we have time. Thank you so much.", "And Dr. Odeen, feel free to join us for the rest of the conference as well. I will. Salaam alaikum. Selaam alaykum." ]
amina_mccloud/Check out Aminah Beverly McCloud Al Deen_s intervi__1742894418.opus	[ "Well, all of the communities, unfortunately have their experiences of colonialism, you know, different ways. But those countries which experienced British and French and Portuguese and Dutch colonialism had the European form of racism coming down", "I remember the first time I was in Pakistan seeing these huge billboards of light and lovely. And really, and so white becomes preferred. And the darker you are, the less your chances are of success." ]
amina_mccloud/Conversations_ Imam Fredrick alDeen and Dr_ Amina _3taRQjsjLRE&pp=ygUVQW1pbmFoIE1jQ2xvdWQgIGlzbGFt_1742897064.opus	[ "What's going on with the 2020 presidential election and local elections? Let me first give my salams. But let me say, if anybody can figure that out, that would be great. Anything you can think of is going on. I think we need to start with our incumbent, President Trump. He supports school choice, and most of us like the idea of school choice.", "If they're good schools. Well, the thing about it is you are talking about public schools where people go to... I mean not the students of course but teachers teach because it's a steady paycheck and has benefits not necessarily because their experts in subject matter which has always been an issue.", "as far as issues in this election is the amount of money public schools are losing that have been siphoned off and going into private schools. What other issues do you see? No, those are charter schools. Well, charter schools, I call them private schools because they're not really available to the public. What are the issues do", "I think that as with any sovereign nation, one of the issues becomes immigration. No sovereign nation can have open borders. How he has worked on regulating people coming in that opposes what our Congress has let stand", "Immigration policy is an interesting situation. It's our Congress that has not redone immigration You know so in the absence of redoing it we're left with these draconian kind of measures, you know ban Muslims Even if they come into visit band H what is it h1h one visas?", "And then if they sneak through, if the actual person you want to hire sneaks through on an H-1B visa, then you ban his spouse. So you're separating families and destroying families. You know, and it's all because we have put Band-Aids on a really bad immigration policy. We haven't taken down the Statue of Liberty.", "Whatever else is tired you're poor. You're tired and your poor because we're saying well, we want to go back to 1897 Immigration plot do not come if you're a poor tiger or homeless We do not want you in building America so they even need to rewrite the script under the Statue of Liberty Or they need to Really serious say look we're going to go", "hands-on and change make an immigration policy that works which includes asylum seekers and refugees I mean because that's important on the other hand still you have those who wish to do the country and its citizens harm sneaking in and they may be relatives of bonafide", "I have no clue as to how one handles that. However, I think there's a middle path. It was always good to look for the middle path but I can't go without commenting on how difficult it seems in responding to a question of what has Donald Trump done positively? A lot of negativism comes out. I'm trying not to be! I'm really working hard here.", "on the financial, agricultural and energy sectors and many other sectors. And that was supposed to spur growth because the people working or owning pieces of those sectors said they couldn't grow because there were so many regulations that would cost them money. On the other hand however it puts all of us at risk when there are no regulations. Well the other thing about", "cuts in economic downturn you know how many farmers have committed suicide since 2018 no but i heard it was a bunch 452. 452 farmers the people who feed us and that's who feeds america our farmers yeah have uh committed suicide why because they just can't make a profit or living off of doing what has been being done in their families for generations any other positives", "here he wanted to because he wanted votes to spur the coal industry and it is true that the men and women who worked in that industry did not have enough skills to do anything else uh so you don't want them to die on the vine but they were dying anywhere anyway from inhaling cold dust", "on and pour some money into the coal industry. But, this society is shifting away from coal which is a very old fossil fuel source. It was China and India still consuming it. And that was positive. China and Indian are still consuming very heavily. So you know we've got a situation with politics 2020 where people have talked about some threats to democracy talk", "change happening Bernie Sanders is offering a revolution and then yeah I think it's not well thought through revolution but when you look at the situation as same politics as usual except for the insertion of the question who is John Galt those of you who read Anne Randall know what the references that I'm making is towards the issue we talk about things being different", "look at the candidates it's the same old white men and that's unaccepted who said an old man can't think an all-white man came thing that makes a very interesting question but you went from a very in the Democratic side the Republican side has always been wiped but I mean since Trump selection they had some kind of standin Carson", "But anyway on the Democratic side you had a healthy Diversity Men and women lots of diversity but the American populace and the Muslim populace in particular I mean cares report that came out here", "on American Islamic Relations came out with a report on 3-5 because they did a survey. And it's a very interesting survey because the American Muslim Voter Database that CARA has was developed by matching state records of registered voters with an extensive list of some 45,000 traditionally Muslim first and last names. I have no clue what", "I don't know a clue what that means in the United States of America. There were names, common names prevalent across the Muslim world's Muslim majority and ethnic groups were identified and verified by well-informed members. The pool of Muslim voters does not include Muslims when uncommon names are those who do not have traditionally Muslim names.", "African American, Latino Native American and white American Muslim voters were left out of this survey. But nevertheless the standings were interesting. You had 79% of those who responded to the survey say they cast ballots in this year's Super Tuesday which just happened and as you were mentioning earlier we're going", "51% of the Muslims are primarily affiliated as Democratic, with 17.5% with the Republican Party. So this is really an immigrant survey. And 24.5 as independent. By age, and this is where it's critical, and I think it shifts a little bit when you add in the indigenous population.", "58.2 voted for Bernie Sanders 26 for Joe Biden 5.4 for Michael Bloomberg Talk about percentages Right, 5.1 percent voted for Elizabeth Warren and then 1.4 For another candidate Now here's a woman running And what it says Is that this immigrant population is not willing To consider", "as viable a female candidate. Well that's not unusual and should not be a surprise because people who vote tend to vote their culture, and tend to devote their family traditions. Yeah but I mean you look at India and Pakistan they have had women leaders. Yeah, but over here it's you fit in if you suppress votes for females. We're Americans that's what we do at that level of politics.", "So as we were speaking earlier about the age, 70% of the Muslim voters between ages 18 and 34 supported Bernie Sanders. 16% supported Joe Biden. They're all in a whisper in age between the two. 42.6% between the ages 65-74 supported Bernie", "Bernie Sanders while 39.4 supported Joe Biden so we have to ask the question and I think it's important of what is Bernie Sanders putting out there many people have heard free college tuition free health care nothing is free in America by the way free this free that and free the other somebody has", "can't support 300 and some more, 400 million people's health care and education without taxing those who work 50 to 60 percent of their income. But do you think the voters be they immigrants or Americans? Indigenous, yeah. Indigenous have a clue what the candidate platforms are? No. How could you figure it out?", "do where are they getting the information if they don't have information where can they go to get it well one place is i looked at um and i hate to say this because i used to tell my students if i saw wikipedia listed as a source i was going to just give you an f straight up but wikopedia did a good job in this sense on political positions of the 2020 democratic party presidential primary candidates 15 at the time", "the time. Huh? There were 15 of them at the time right so what I did was I asked out all the ones that are no longer running and I looked Bernie Sanders and Joe Biden are very close on many issues you can't have free tuition for public colleges somebody has to pay the teachers there,", "Teachers who now you're telling them, you're going to get rid of tenure. You're going", "Because in many of these institutions, students' tuition even though it's low in public institutions, is still pays a large percentage of the cost of running the school. As does research and many other schools are public like UIC, public institution but its", "So a lot of its funds come from teachers getting class time off to write grants, getting those grants and doing the research you know to keep themselves going, to keep the college going etc. If you've got to flatten something out if you're gonna have free public tuition. Private schools is a different matter. What do you think?", "the candidates' positions has been revealed by following the layout of the 15 candidates and their positions. Following that, we're seeing nuances changes in the positions and stances as contributor sources change and as issues arise and as the allegations and verbal assaults against personalities", "it's changed their positions on some issues yeah well biden talks about partial uh where there's more government support and we don't have a situation like we had in illinois where they had difficulty getting money from the government for the pell grants so students weren't holding things they couldn't register for classes you know all of those things that when", "Federal dollars that come into play or even state dollars because the federal government inevitably is going to shift it on to the states. You know, when I hear people talk about federal dollars and state dollars, I remember my reaction to the commercials that the Army puts out in the Marine Corps. Yeah. At the end of the commercial says paid for by the United States Army. They don't have any money. The federal government doesn't have", "Yeah. Of course, now the federal government has been known to print more and more money of late, but the basic source of the money that they use to buy these things and make these mistakes with is my hard-earned tax dollars. And we're talking about this election as though it's typical and normal as far as process is concerned. But we know that there's a big, big emphasis this year again, even more so than before on donations, corporate versus public. Joe Biden's a", "recipient Donald Trump is others were that we're running in the race Bernie Sanders is supposedly a popular lead funded candidate but there's also money of people who have to choose between eating and funding you because they want to participate in the political system like they had this", "went up to Elizabeth Warren and said I have what was it eight or sixteen dollars, and I want so much for a woman to succeed in this election. I'll give you half. And Elizabeth Warren took it! How do you do that from a student? You put your hand out, you go back. And you walk away right? But the other part of the lack of normalcy", "intervention that's now possible by outside actors, outside actors in the international setting and influencing who votes and what voters' reactions are to candidates positions like the allegations of Russia and Ukraine. But they've always been there. Not to this extent supposedly though. Yeah but with the I don't want to say, I'll say enhancements", "rather than improvements because I don't know if they're truly improvements. Young men and women can learn the coding, the this, that, the other, and break in anywhere they want to break in. What is arguably most disheartening", "aiding and abetting. You know, I mean you can break in but that doesn't mean i have to help you by posting the propaganda on sites and all of that stuff. And Mr Zuckerberg ought to be ashamed of himself he really oughta. I mean that's horrible but it also leads into issues of net neutrality because", "love free. You put, and you can tell them 9000 times nothing is free. Right? But they still love the idea of free. And the net for the most part was free. Now everything if you're noticing the increase in apps that cost money. They're free for a minute and then they cost money to sample them, sample your looks", "You gotta go buy it at whatever rate it is because your fingers just walk right over to that app again. That's one thing that has not changed about the American culture, we're still capitalism based. This is a way to make money doing it and redo it. There's an interesting book talking about Google and Amazon and Apple called Surveillance Capitalism. I recommend that viewers who are interested in what's happening every time you send a message with your cell phone or go into an app or visit this site or visit that site", "Not only are you leaving cookies, but you're leaving habitual behavior behind that people are using to make profits off of your habits. Yeah. And we have some habits because we'll be doing one thing and click over on the app that's running in the margins. Oh my goodness those shoes look delicious. Oh let me check this out over here. As soon as you do that", "or crawl, whoever it is protection for you. You know and your off and running because you're chasing down some shoes that in the end you don't want anyway. I think the other thing that was really quite interesting was very little of these candidates jibber jabber has said anything about", "thing about foreign policy. Trump's foreign policy is clear, he wants the United States to go back to an isolationist policy predominantly only with those openings which of course helped", "worldwide organizations Which if you slash? aid which they're doing this flashing a almost by To countries who have come to depend on those eight that it and it's not like the United States hasn't benefited from plummeting and Pullaging those countries so they oughta give them something back. I think that's just me But you know, I agree with some of that age slashing", "I mean our assistance to Japan is not really needed anymore. Our assistance to South Korea's not really need it anymore and we have not been getting our return for our dollars that we had contributed to the UN so some of that I don't have any problem with. No, I think you should do the first thing he started with which is force other European countries to pay their fair share Don't pull out, you know and act like a spoiled child", "A spoiled child when you don't get your you know immediately people figuring out their pennies because they have Issues too, but when it comes to the Middle East South Asia and Southeast Asia We do get stuff all of those things lithium batteries All of those minerals used in all this technology And South Asian lots of", "ought to do something. I think one of the things we'll be large is health care also and healthcare like a, with we, the mantra is nothing is free in America. The countries that we get compared with Denmark, Sweden have a fraction of the population and a fraction", "Yes. Right. Oh my God. And nobody is talking, Trump was not being totally truthful when he said he was going to work on the drug cost. What next career? Next four years.", "So if we have same old, same old white men running for the office of president. And I do mean old. That old is not here for Mr. King. They are old. Given the corporate pro-voting tradition of Joe Biden and Bernie's pro-corporate interest perspective of Joe", "and uh trump's pro-corporate uh interest and the one guy that is running against um trump you know who you know was running against her anybody know the gop guys running against trump i forgot his name last name as well w e l d i think harold jay will look him up he's hanging in there how much is this platform it's about six feet up off the ground", "I don't remember exactly. I only found out about it fairly lately, so my question is given that traditional outcome no matter who you vote for as far as who's going to be elected what change can the electorate people in the electorates expect?", "Who truly could change things probably was Michael Bloomberg He had the money Has the money has the money. I only spent 1 billion out of 62 so yeah In terms of his record in New York is stellar and he didn't take anybody's money to do it in", "In terms of modifying student loan paybacks, school, I mean across the board. What he's tackled, he's gotten done because that was another question on the care survey was about $15 an hour. That's not a living wage. People cannot, men or women, whoever it is that's supporting your family, even if you're single,", "Given that rents are rising the cost of food is rising the class of utilities is right you cannot before taxes support a household being in apartment or house on $15 an hour Well, give me what he tried to do in New York. In some cases was able to do New York Why did you think it was?", "Elizabeth Warren who has a lot of baggage as far as plans. And is hysterical. Joe Biden, his corporate connections and some of the problems he had as Vice President under Obama, the Obama administration which has some problems. Or Bernie Sanders who hasn't passed not one bill. Yeah, the issue is... Congress said no, he will never pass a bill unless he does", "Because you'll be signing executive orders daily. What can people expect to happen if the op-doc is in play? Well, I think one of the things... And why did they vote like they did? Are they voting for Elizabeth Warren because of her stellar managerial style or Joe Biden because of his stalwart position? Everything is free.", "I did look into however one thing that is often omitted and that is judges Trump is busy his whole administration is busy nominating people to take over these federal getting them approved and getting them And that is Devastation for the Muslim community and any other living community when I hear that statement that you just made there's going to be devastation", "People say in this country. We are a nation of laws and not of men Or either on life support How about life support? I won't say it's buried but its own life support And if we don't bring in the respirator and face masks and all these other stuff and antibiotics", "people are in positions of judges to enforce those laws, what's the harm? What's the fear? Well you know one of the things that the administration has done thus far is not necessarily Donald Trump himself but they've done it in his name. Is they have explored with say for example immigration little pitfalls", "nobody has ever thought about. One of the things we had talked about in some other venues was the U.S. Patriot Act. Muslims themselves, even though the Patriot act is directed mostly toward them have forgotten it but it is the first really large hammer swung at the rule of law. Yeah and most people haven't read it. Well it's too thick for", "reading but maybe we'll do a show and pull out the sailing points. But before we go I want to talk about this, We Vote on March 17th here in Chicago so I went looking at judges and here's what i found um currently", "these people up and their records was for the Illinois Supreme Court was Justice P. Scott Neville, for the Appellate Court Michael Hyman and Sharon O'Johnson. I've tried to look and see because you know stuff is happening nobody knows you get to the voting booth and you say who are these people right so it becomes a thing of you really have", "go online and look up not just them but what have they done you know what is the incarceration rate how long are these sentences who do they target you know for these long sentences you mentioned the incarceration rates that's one of the new things with this year's election is a number of incarcerated people people were actually in jails", "are permitted to vote. So they represent a voting problem. Yeah, but you know the Trump administration is going back and trying to repeal all of that. So I think John... What is his name? Not John Legend. The singing artist. A number of folks. John Legend and all of them are ramping up their efforts to prevent", "Those of you who have, yeah it comes on cable MSNBC. One of the things that I think was done last night is one of the chefs is doing a thing on gerrymandering and voter suppression. And those things we don't have to read anything. We can sit back and listen to them. You mentioned one source for judges. I just want to mention there are others.", "There are others that are for Democrats as well as Republicans. There's information put up by the Democratic National Committee, the Republican National Committee. The Eagle Women Voters, Fox News, MSNBC, the NAACP and others. And my point is if you want to be a participant in an electorate know what you're doing. The basis of this success of this democracy so far to the degree it has been successful", "upon people who vote, who know what the heck it is they're doing. So if you're going to vote, know who you're voting for, otherwise you might be harming yourself. And if you work two jobs and don't have time to sit down and search the internet, you can listen to Radio Aslam's podcast called Conversations because eventually we will get to it! And other podcasts on Radio Asalam will get", "is to push the issues. Oh, this will be the final show on this subject as long as there's time between now and the election we'll be talking about the election 2020 and bringing you hopefully information that's helpful to making you an informed member of the U.S. electorate. Well, we have a couple minutes? We're at 35. Oh yeah, we've got about five minutes. Yeah, a lot of time. So... One thing we haven't mentioned", "sitting here as big of an hour on the branch. What about the coronavirus and what impact it's going to have on the electorate turnout? Is it a true conspiracy that somebody has set this thing in motion so they keep voters from the polls? Well, I don't know but i think that one of my close friends and I sat down today", "the sources for information and there's some things we figured out. The CDC cannot afford to be truthful it would set off an awesome panic and when you read... You're saying they can not afford to? They can not afford to be... So, you are saying that there is information out there that we need that we're being deprived of? Well, there's speculative information like how are you gonna know if someone has", "You know, the flu is rampaging. But most people have gotten themselves and their children vaccinated, right? So even if they catch the flu, they come down with a mild one. There is no vaccine as of yet for the coronavirus which is different if you look at the pictures on it. Johns Hopkins University put out a map to show you where the virus is ramping up.", "Their little places the BBC is a good source on The news as this France 24 and his own jazzeri 15 bucks an hour. You don't have BBC 15 bucks in our you don't", "I don't have access. So how do those people know about that? I don' t know. One, I know, I had one suggestion and one answer. They find out because the Muslims as well as other groups of the members of the electorate have been doing a stalwart job putting together town hall meetings and voter information drives around the country. And if you Well, that's kind of getting a little scarce because people have to be six feet apart.", "until now. They've done a good job. Check the local community and see if you find something that they're doing, you'll see some of their signs posted in libraries and public places and go visit stay six feet away don't shake hands and don't kiss cheek to cheek and go find out what's happening. Well I think the other thing is as Muslims we need", "I'm sure that there are several ways we can view ourselves in this situation. One of the things is, in societies like ours, we become extremely narcissistic in a sense that we do what concerns us without any care for our fellow man. And that's not what our guidance tells us to do. Wash your hands.", "wash your hands if you're gonna sneeze sneezing your elbow or wherever or tissue these are minor things and it's only for a short period of time a lot gives us um little snippets of stories about people who were tested far longer than us but we're railing at a little bitty test think all the people where we're screaming because there are no uh face masks", "on the shelves. Oh my God, they run out of hand sanitizer. Well think about the places in the world where there is no hand sanitizer, never has been any hand sanitizer or clean water or a face mask I think that it's time for us to show what we claim that we have which is compassion by not doing only", "Only what we have to do that is necessary and also for self-reflection Regarding what is it about your house? You don't like so much that you got to be out of it all the time Even when you don't have to be And then the important thing to remember as muslims that is that we are supposed to be in the earth That's where adam was posted because god said that he's going to put a khalifa in the Earth", "after Adam was trained and did the Arguments with Iblis in the Shaitan he was posted in there And for me that means he was told hey once you know what you're doing Once you are an informed member of the electorate a citizen like a electorate and a citizen You ought to be in the earth. You oughta be socially engaged civically engaged So the Muslims have been trained by the Quran and the example of the Prophet", "better people, those Christians who are like us and those Jews who follow the same pattern, are the best people to try to resolve or mediate the issues and conflicts in the world. But how do you do this though when Muslims are under surveillance? And they can't decide because they're completely under stressed out. Well the thing about it is we're going", "a religious community, under surveillance. Everything is being surveilled. Their kids are being surveillled. Their homes are being surveyed. Their telephones are being serviled. How do you do the social engagement? And there are many ways to do that. Many other communities have been under surveillance... African Americans had the same thing on the COINTELPRO being surveil- Oh we're always under surveillance!...shot and spies put into their organization", "organization, have done had the same thing happen. What they did was they tried to pursue the programs that they felt were effective for the general public according to the law and as long as they tried do that the court eventually came around says the persecution that we suffered it was unjust and it got cut back. It didn't get limited but it got back. The big thing is do the best thing you know you should be doing try to avoid the crazy things of this culture engenders in you", "and pray to Allah that He makes it easy for you. Well, I think the other thing we've got to do is our own internal housecleaning. Many of the young men and women who actually engage in rhetoric of ISIS, what is this rhetoric all about? Why is it compelling? What are we not in our various ethnic communities providing", "that makes such a driving need to look for something else. So I think we can do that in another program or two.", "that are natural and good like recreational sports, things of that nature. And support them in the good things they're doing. The country is better off when Muslim kids are able to do the good thing that they're trained to do. With that it's been great as usual. Well I hope we got some sense out of it because this has been a very interesting dangerous", "concerning elections so far. And I told you about the book Surveillance Capitalism, and I'll tell you about another book. Not so much on a positive note, but it's one of two books written by Timothy Snyder. The first book is On Tyranny, and this one is called The Road to Unfreedom. And what it does is answers the question that if you're under surveillance, if you've been oppressed", "have been done historically to get the monkey off your back. God willing. And we'll review these books in future podcasts. Assalamualaikum. Waalaikumsalam warahmatullahi wabarakatuhu." ]
amina_mccloud/Critical Talk with Prof_ Aminah Al-Deen_5SutaMdObBM&pp=ygUVQW1pbmFoIE1jQ2xvdWQgIGlzbGFt0gcJCb0Ag7Wk3p_U_1742899161.opus	[ "Good evening. This is Professor Aminah Aldean, and I am just really enjoying the fact that I am joined by three esteemed chaplains who have agreed to have a conversation with me tonight about university chaplaincy. Dr. Aminat Darwish is the Muslim", "is the Muslim Life Coordinator at Columbia University in New York. She's earned Ijazahs and traditional Islamic studies certifications from the Qualum Seminary in Dallas, and the Critical Loyalty Seminar in Toronto, Ontario guys. She has also studied individually under different scholars from all over the world.", "and chemical engineering before switching careers. And I love this part, to follow her true passion for community building. Omar Bajwa is the director of Muslim life in the chaplain's office at Yale University. He has engaged in religious service, social activism, interfaith engagement, and educational outreach since 2000.", "His interests include Islam in the United States, inter-religious engagement, Islamic global media and interactions between culture politics and spirituality. Hajra Sharif last on this list is an Amama chaplain. Hajro Shariff holds a bachelor's degree in philosophy and economics", "from Wesley College and a master's in Islamic studies with both academic and traditional training. She also studied in and visited various Muslim cultures, including Jordan, Malaysia, Palestine, Turkey, and Indonesia. Oh my goodness, such an esteemed group. I can just go over to the side", "and let you all roll with it but let me um start out with you know that chaplaincy has a very deep rooted christian heritage and it is only been very recently than others were even considered right and christians of course thought they can mentor to anybody anytime anywhere", "anywhere, any place. So what I'm going to ask you is how do you understand that history? Have you taken up the ball of that history ministering to anybody anywhere or have you decided to minister to Muslim students? You can all answer at once.", "take time. Let's start with Amina. It is such an honor to be here with Professor Amina, I think part of it is just going back to the history of our institutions themselves. Colombia is older than the country itself there's a long history there with colonialism, with slavery, with just a lot of the dark parts of American history so just even coming through all of that we were originally", "And now we are a secular university that is trying to figure itself out. And this is just another layer of us trying to find ourselves as a country, an institution. We do do a lot of interfaith work. I think it's really important to engage with people of other religions partially for our own students to learn about other traditions but also so that we're engaging with the religious tapestry of America.", "most part and all of our programs are the majority of our program is Muslim specific programs. But the interface space is so rich and interesting, I really love it. Hadira? Can you repeat the question? You know that I'm a very young woman. And I'll forget a question in a minute. Okay. I do have a sense what the question was, so I will just answer that.", "So you talked about how chaplaincy originated from the history of the Christian tradition. And while I understand that to be true, it has since evolved to include people of all religious and spiritual traditions. So with respect to Islam we see that Muslim chaplain in the United States began in the prisons as a form of law or outreach.", "that was something that the Nation of Islam was very much into. But more recently, post 9-11 this work has evolved to focus on interfaith between Muslims and non-Muslims. And I actually like to take it a step further by not only engaging in interfaithe but also multicultural dialogue because the difference between the two in my opinion is you know, interfaite kind of focuses", "differences and finding common ground but multiculturalism, multicultural dialogue also you know acknowledges power differences and centers historically marginalized voices so and that includes Muslim voices. So in some sense there is this shift away from needing to prove", "religion, which is kind of the approach taken in the early days of post 9-11. So in this new space I found that in particular my work i'm trying to center Muslims a little bit more and I do that by focusing on three things strengthening Muslim identity engaging in multicultural dialogue and contributing to anti-racist work by countering Islamophobia so I hope to expand", "for both strengthening Muslim identity as well as engaging in soldier-hosted work. Omar, chime in please. Sure. Bismillahirrahmanirrahim everyone. Thank you so much to my colleagues and friends. Just fantastic comments. So many threads to sort of tease out there I'll jump in with two quick points. The first is I definitely appreciate the beginning of the question is that it's very imperative for us to know the history of the genealogy rather than how we got here. So in my reading, I've been at Yale for 12 going on 13 years now", "years now. My reading of this, Yale also like Columbia is an ancient institution so to speak and so the genealogy is very much out of a liberal protestant framework right? And so where I just to jump into it where I see the intersection with our work is by us a reading or a study of our tradition of our own prophetic tradition from the Nabi ﷺ is that the work of pastoral care is like in the DNA of the ministry of the Prophet ﷺ so to", "literally just the way everything that he cared for and took care of in the community is that I think it's work. What we're bringing through in all of our respective ministries is an inflection of that, right? And so, and then the second point that I'll briefly make is that you know, we have incredible they're fascinating threads, right, of prison chaplaincy military hospital but we all work in the, were privileged to work in", "incredibly talented, driven ambitious young Muslims who are going through as Shabba Hadra said issues of exploring their identity and so we're there to sort of in the chaplaincy language walk with them along that journey right? And be there as friends, as interlocutors, as empathetic listeners, as non-anxious presence. And then as when appropriate really being deep dialogue right with them. And which was pretty said before is at same time a flip side of our chaplains work", "is that we are in many ways the Muslim interlocutor to the broader university community, right? Whether it's about issues of Islam and environmentalism, Islam and human rights, Islam anti-black racism work or anti racist works. So these are privileged positions that we in fact have so. Okay I wanna dig down a little deeper and play the angel's advocate. In this country,", "supposed to have a kind of wall of separation between church and state. Religious institutions, of course, promote religion. Secular institutions, however, are not supposed to support religion. So let me get a little deeper. I don't care if you're Muslim. If you went to", "You're supposed to be there learning biochemical engineering, chasing fruit flies, learning something about history. Your feeding your soul is supposed to happen in another space. Talk to me chaplains. I'll just jump in. Thank you very much for the question.", "I think that mindset or that line of thinking is common, like I've heard it many times. What I would gently sort of redirect, instead of saying pushback, is that I think it's not – it's a little bit short-sighted because we're all complex individuals, right? Race, gender, ethnicity, religious identity, spiritual identity, linguistic identity. We're all made up of different parts.", "stick, right? That walk into a university that are going to absorb this knowledge and walk out after four years with a BA or six years of the PhD. I think just isn't honest to an experience. And so we have people at this very formative intellectual emotional growth period in their late teens, early twenties they're going through a lot, right. They're processing engaging with the world and spiritual is as important as their ethnic identity, their racial identity.", "I think the part of a beauty of a liberal arts education is actually engaging that seriously with those ideas, right? Is that people are complex and liberal arts talk about human condition. And this is what asked to be human condition and so. That's great. Adra chime in. Sure. I think that what you were getting at the separation of church and state is actually only relevant to public universities private colleges", "public universities colleges uh do hire chaplains and um there actually is a way for public uh for people for religious communities to fund their own chaplins at public colleges and universities and i actually encourage muslim community to organize and start funding because you know in this space muslim students you know they don't have a lot of", "have a lot of administrative support, people who understand the needs of Muslims especially in this climate of Islamophobia and just having an authoritative figure on campus who understands and can advocate for the needs that are most critical for their long-term growth. College years are formative years of identity so not having that support system in place early on can be damaging in the long run for the Muslim community", "I just hope that we can organize ourselves and start understanding the importance of having a presence on college campuses. But Amina, my God, there are over 1,000 faith traditions. Are we going to have a chaplain for each one? Are we gonna have authority figures advocating for each", "whole selves to campus in the spirit of inclusion, if there's a large enough group of students they have to be able to have their religious identities just acknowledged. If there is a student that is only eating halal or vegetarian food or kosher food and you don't serve it to them then you're saying you don' t get to eat at the dining hall. How can we do that for tens of thousands", "afford to do that for every dietary wish, every prayer wish, everything? Do they then get out of the business of teaching subjects for careers and professions and cross that line and get into the business", "Columbia University who has never in their life engaged with someone that has a different dietary need, has missed part of the learning they should have gotten at a global campus. Has missed part even just understanding and this is even with our interfaith dialogue it isn't about hey I'm going to bring a sanitized version of me no I will bring my whole self tell you exactly how I feel if I can't do that then the university", "allowing the students to bring their whole selves. The idea of secularism is based on we're not the default religion that was there, and the default religious that was again these white male Episcopal priests. And need to create a space for everyone else to say okay even if we are not choosing one religion we will still acknowledge the existence of different religions I think universities as big as Columbia have at least 15 religious life advisors", "advisors on campus and I think it's so fascinating. Half of them are different Christian sex, which is also interesting because when we say we're going to do interfaith work with the Christians they're like well which ones? How do we talk about orthodoxy within even the Christian traditions and how do we engage? And it just creates for a richer educational experience I think. Just on that note I want to jump in with a quick thought thank you so much is that sort", "hear chaplain Amina's words are really in the when we talk about the project of education is that we want to include it in the include in that conversation, the idea of religious literacy. So she said it so beautifully is that if you go through four years at a selective institution and you've never had exposure to difference I mean that I think something it leaves a lot to be desired in what the faculty and the people who design curriculums are doing those institutions because", "have professional schools, right? You just have vocational schools. I don't mean to knock that out. There's definitely a very important place for that. Then we're not calling it university education, right. That's a very singular track of education where you go and you get sort of a product at the end of it. And I think university education is much more about diversity and inclusion. And then the other thing I just want to add in there to Amina's point is that in our respective institutions", "institutions like these are were part of the colonial projects in some way right is that yale was modeled off of oxford and cambridge which were part", "So in 250 years of its history, it was a male only – a white male institution. This is imperative now in the moment that we live and that we reorganize dismantle and redistribute power in these institutions. Okay. We're going to take a few second break here and come back with Hajra to jump into this conversation.", "Hadira, jump in. Sure I just wanted to make one additional point in the way that you framed your question about well can we accommodate for all of these other religions?", "Like, why is it such a problem? Accommodating for the needs of marginalized people. Well one reason- Positive. Class if you accommodate everybody's religious day. Right but in terms of dietary restrictions, it's very easy to accommodate that there's not a huge cost to doing something. Well, it looks expensive.", "I mean, not necessarily. There's not too many dietary restrictions in general. I mean buying halal chicken versus normal. We have vegans. We vegetarians. I don't want to take the mic from you, Hadra. I'm sorry. But we actually have an example at Yale if you don't mind me sharing for the good of the group. So several years ago I was in conversation with Yale Dining", "with Yale Dining. And long story short, they redid their whole strategic plan and business plan. And alhamdulillah, one of the things was a resource ethically produced produce and ingredients as much as possible in their dining halls. Part of that plan, they actually found halal meat suppliers that met their strategic point. So the point is that at Yale, in all of its 14 residential college dining halls, we actually have halal chicken as a default. Halal chicken and beef on the line,", "which is actually meets all the criteria for all of the different things that they want to look at. But to the other point, and then I'm sorry, Farajara, for taking the mic from you. Is that we're living in an age now where dining professionals take a lot of this very seriously, where there's every menu item that you go into a dining hall has allergen information, right? If you have shellfish allergy, if you have a peanut allergy,", "cages to religious groups is that if you're vegan, if you vegetarian, if eat halal, if there's alcohol present in an ingredient most colleges now will actually list that because they care very much about the health and well-being of students. So this I think interacts very well with that but please give the mic back.", "things that i've heard is from the workers and trying to tend to what they perceive of is the food of foreigners having the cost from students the cost of meal cards and stuff going up because then you have many more vendors than you had originally and for the poor that's exorbitant", "And while it might be nice for those who can afford it, it is not so nice for many minority students who have to pay higher costs as they serve the desires of others. That's true but having said that part of the struggle is a lot of so at Columbia a lot", "every incoming freshman is required to be on the dining plan. And if they are on the planning, especially during Ramadan, if they don't get halal food, they're essentially paying for food that they cannot eat. And this is true of a lot of other students and I'm really grateful for the dining staff at Columbia that I think we have four Jane's students that are on a strict vegan diet and they get accommodated those four students because again", "Because again, it would have been insane to try to make all of it vegan. So instead what they did is these specific students have a relationship with the staff and they essentially give them a heads up before they come into the dining hall. No, I think those things are always accommodated but I'm just thinking about the numbers of students whose meal plans I've paid for because as the meal plans went up", "went up to accommodate students from other places, they used their meal cards up very quickly and then were hungry. And I think that smacks a little bit of an elitism that smacked off a little but of ethnocentrism that's smacks of a little racism that's not being dealt with here.", "It's not so nice. I apologize, I didn't mean to cut you off. I think it's a fascinating conversation and dimension to all of this is the economics of higher education which in some ways totally needs to be... We need to have that hard conversation about why are the costs going up across the board in higher education where it's actually becoming unaffordable for the majority of people in this country. And I'm not an economist but I read in The Chronicle of Higher Ed", "But Hasbro is an economist. Hasbro. Okay, are we going to get to a point where it's literally going to price out the majority of people in the country? Exactly.", "that they are trying from the conversations I'm privy to, and I'm very mindful of the fact that I am at a ridiculously privileged and elite institution. Like I put that up front, right? Yale is not, it's the 1%, right? It's not most colleges in the country. But what they try to do in many of these places is they want to give a living wage to their workers, right, and so gets into complex issues of you have to raise labor costs go up which at some level has been filtered down", "et cetera and i look more complex than that um because also in addition to the economics it's back to what all of you have talked about about liberal education you're forcing me an evangelical christian to be mindful of what i serve a muslim or jew or vegan or whatever else", "serving food. I'm a human being with my own religious proclivities. Hydra, jump in. Well, when you mentioned Christian these public institutions they're not funded by Christians. These are public institutions therefore they need to accommodate for the public it's not about Christians needing", "non-Christians. But public institutions are funded by many Christian groups. Right, but when you fund a public institution your self interests don't matter at that point. There's never a time when an American's self interest don't manver. Never. I mean it's not supposed to. It is a public", "the public interest not specifically but most homes are teeny tiny teeny tiny part of it is in public interest to be accommodating to everyone and creating an open society because in the long term this just creates better society you have to look at education they gain in other ways if you're just fixated on this tiny thing about oh giving you know a small accommodation we will miss out", "of creating a cosmopolitan culture, et cetera. And this is the same line of reasoning that people use whether we should support welfare programs or not. Again it's about the public good and then like the societal benefits, the intangible societal benefit that- Exactly. Amina? I think because Colombia can actually buy food at bulk, it actually becomes cheaper than some of the food in the surrounding area except for of course the halal cart. The halal", "always standard the cheapest food that you can get. But apart from that, if you want quality food, the assumption is the Muslim students wouldn't be paying for food anyway. In fact, the university is just taking in those dollars their students apart from the freshmen because they expect you to buy a ton of meal plans. Students, a lot of the other students even graduate students opted into the dining plan because it was cheaper for them per meal than it was to just be eating out", "in a surrounding area that is very pricey. Yeah, well let's move on. What other religious traditions have each of you studied in your role as a chaplain? Could you repeat the question please? What other religions traditions have you studied", "I mean, I'll just jump in real quick and then I defer to my friend and colleagues here. You know, in my training, I went to Hartford Seminary. I'm a graduate of Hartford seminary. And so it's originally a Christian institution that has much more of an ecumenical approach now. And through my work at Cornell when I was doing a master's in Islamic studies, you know, I took Hebrew Bible New Testament and then obviously I went", "I've had exposure. And then in work at Yale, we have on staff again because of the nature of how we're very fortunate is I have a colleague that's a Hindu director of Hindu life and a director of Buddhist life. So I have close working relationships with the Buddhist chaplain and the Hindu chaplain so in my dozen plus years on the job, I learned a lot and continue to learn in my work with Hindu and Buddhist communities on campus.", "I agree. I think there's a certain level of privilege that we have, but most other people don't that we can...I have a friend that is a Hindu chaplain that I can call up at any point and ask about any specific thing. I have the same working relationship with Christian Jewish and Buddhist ministers and all them and just say, Hey, this is what's happening. Before we had a Hindu Chaplin on campus, I had an Indian student come to my office and he's Hindu. And he was like, my Brown parents are really disappointed in me. I'm like so are mine.", "And he came home and we had this conversation because for a lot of our conversations with students, yes it's somewhat within a religious framework but just as human beings there are certain struggles that are very similar. Yeah. There was no point where he felt like I was trying to push Islam on him nor was he trying to put Hinduism on me but at the same time we were trying to find common ground of how can we have a difficult conversation with our parents? How do we do this? Alhamdulillah my parents have since come around", "come around and i just it was a fascinating conversation to have with the student alhamdulillah now we do have a hindu chaplain that he can go to but i still have now have a relationship with the students that i don't think i would have otherwise oh yeah so i actually have a background in islamic studies i've studied islam for five plus years um so my concentration obviously", "you know, in some readings I would not claim myself to be an expert. But I've also read in depth the works of Nasser and other Perennialist writers. And I think that sort of perspective is beneficial as a chaplain because we're supposed to be speaking widely to people from a perspective of shared common, shared values, shared spiritual wisdom, et cetera. And it's not so much still important", "when it comes to different religions for more of how we can unite under these common values. And so my background in these plenum readings was very helpful in my chaplaincy job also just like others have mentioned learning on the job, interacting with the other chaplains in everyday sense not necessarily informal interfaith events but those everyday conversations that you had with people they really open up windows because", "you're not going to forget that stuff because it's rooted in words. Whereas if you read something in a book and you don't have anything to root it in, you could easily forget it. So just having that human connection has been instrumental in me gaining a wider perspective and understanding the other religious traditions. I think that's great because a lot of people think that the only thing Muslim chaplains do is Muslim stuff. And it's important for them to hear", "guys are not told on the walkway. You're in everything and conferring with your colleagues. Now, Omar will take you out of this conversation for a minute. And I'm going to ask the women chaplains. We have serious issues with women because, Omar, of men all over the Muslim world.", "Now you show up as chaplains with jobs, draw salary, with authority, with responsibility. Talk to me ladies. I think my first week on campus four of the male students asked when we were going to hire a khatib and the first one I just started. The second one was confused.", "it's gonna be a while. And Alhamdulillah to their credit, those same four students came around and started attending halaqas and became involved in a way that I was very grateful. And they didn't just dismiss me offhand. There are some students that would but at the same time, I feel like it gave me space to have conversation. There're a lot of women that have been disenfranchised from the Muslim community and it put me in a really good position", "position to try to bring them back in and i remember actually in the last month i think i had three different women of different ages and have different very different experiences that said this was the first time that they have felt that islam could be for them but allah could love them yeah isn't that something all the muslims are men and the women i don't know what they do", "I studied Islam and I was looking for something to do with it. If I was a man, you could try to be an imam at a mosque or get invited to speak at things. And there's lots of opportunities but for a woman it's so much more difficult. And so this was one of the few outlets for someone like myself.", "That's something that I had to deal with kind of on the first day. And also just questions about leading prayer and all of these things, it's how do you deal with those questions? What stance you decide to take can have real world consequences, right? You might divide your community but at the same time we need to stand up for social justice in women. So like where is the balance, right. And sometimes you might decide that, you know what,", "to do this. I'm going to lead this prayer or whatever and even if you disagree with me, you're gonna...I hope that we can create a culture of tolerance because the inconvenience that the majority experiences because they see something new or something new is happening is not even close", "gain if they go outside of the grain and you know do things that are counter to culture. So yeah, and that's actually why I go by the name imama as well chaplain because you know authority is granted through these titles and so if you don't use these titles you're in some sense diminishing your own authority and i have had just as much training as some of these other people who call themselves Imams or whatever and", "also this title of imam and i think amina needs that as well my one of my male students actually started the imamana which i thought was hilarious it kind of stuck i love it ladies i'm going to use it and push it out there i think one of the things on many campuses and especially with i'm gonna put this out there and we're gonna take another quick break", "is the diversity of students. African-American Muslim students have often felt left out as have Chinese Muslims students, as have well not so much white Muslims but Latino Muslims too. So I'm gonna give you a few seconds to think about that and we're going to go to break.", "i think i beat him in terms of taking a station break but nevertheless your comments what can we do", "to change this dynamic? I think we have to embed it in our programming. We made a point to make sure that at least one speaker every year that we invited was Black, at least on speaker that we invite every year was Shia, to make the students see themselves represented also in their religious authority. This is our signature program called", "program was called Ramadan Around the World. And it's the first time that Ramadan is going through the school year and it was so much fun because what we did is we had cultural groups take each taken iftad where they are dressing up, if they want, they are talking about their culture and they're ordering food from that specific, from their specific culture. And again, we had someone to be like, oh yeah of course Columbia has the money to do this. And I'm like look Jollof rice is not more expensive than biryani. It's just not.", "We are just going out of our way to make sure that different cultures are celebrated. The Black student organization, Muslim and non-Muslim alike, attended all like we had a Somali night, a Senegalese night and an African American night where we ordered soul food. And we're lucky enough to be in New York where you can just order food from everywhere. But students were coming because this was a space where their culture was celebrated in a positive and affirming way.", "students are talking about their historical traditions regarding the Shi'a. Students did the same thing where we had the Irani night and they were eating kubeda, and we're drinking like saffron tea, like everybody is really enjoying the Iqbal but we heard that she had them for the first time for a lot of the students. We wrote back a little later if you are unfamiliar with these traditions maybe college should be", "once a year that you see the beautiful tapestry of the American Muslim community in a way that is fun, that is engaging, that just results in really good food. Jump in. I mean, I just want to jump in with what Chapman Amina was saying. She articulated so beautifully with actually concrete examples. What came to my mind to your question was really this is the work of DEI, right? Diversity, Equity and Inclusion.", "equity and inclusion. And so we need to be deeply engaged, and on the ground in that kind of work with our partners on campuses people that work in cultural centers, people that working student affairs, people who work religious affairs as equal contribution partners interlocutors right saying that we absolutely need to create this space for the Latinx community on campus for the native indigenous community on Campus, the black community on", "We're blessed if we take our work seriously to have such an incredible, and that word is so beautiful. The tapestry of the beauty of the Muslim world is that we represent the most multicultural and multi-ethnic religious community arguably on a college campus in 2020. In terms like just the kind of engagement we have, the levels of engagement, the diversity within our communities that come... And this has been mentioned before but that's what I think is that", "our work seriously and i'll be the first one to point at myself as needing to do better is um is that it can be transformative so uh that's what I would kind of thoughts that come to mind to your question. And on the previous question, I very much appreciate how we need to grapple with the gender issues head-on and so I want to listen more than speak. Yeah so I agree you know with everything that was said", "said and you know I mean what you said about representing different ethnicities in uh different genders in uh you know the speakers that are invited, and i think the MSA has done a great job with that. But what I do specifically as a chaplain because you know what the MSC does is not what Ido necessarily is that I make it a point to reach out to Chia black Muslims or anyone else who may be marginalized in the community. And I spend time talking to them in office hours", "a support system when they need it. And that just helps make them feel a little bit more welcome and accepted in the Muslim community. I just make it a point to go out of my way, and make sure that they have that personal relationship with me so that if something happens in the MSA or in the greater Muslim body, we can ask someone to turn to and they're not alone. So that's specifically what I do.", "Okay, I want to turn to the more sensitive side. Oh, Amala gave me that look. Okay, so sex before marriage, pornography, the alphabet crowd, my parents have driven me to my wit's end, I've been bullied and I might commit suicide. How?", "How are we to deal with these things, which are also a part of that maturation process? Don't everybody jump at once. I mean, I always have a lot to say and I talk too much so I don't want to be the first one to jump in. We know how to shut you up, Omar. Don't worry. Just go for it. No, no, thank you. What I would say is one of the things", "One of the things that comes to mind, and then I'll hand it over is that really our training equips us or should equip us to listen more than we speak. Right? Especially in the beginning. And part of the essence of what it means to be a chaplain, to be pastoral presence is to be non-anxious, nonjudgmental presence on campus in these students' lives because we're well aware with all the things you mentioned reality of contemporary culture, right? That young people are faced with this onslaught, right,", "right? And we can unpack that at so many levels. But we want to be ideally inshallah the person in life or the group of people in their life, when they walk through the door, we meet them where they're at, right? That we sit down, we listen, we ask reflective questions, we asked deep questions and do we do deep listening? And so we kind of walk on that journey with", "helping them come through unpacking these issues themselves. That's what I would lead with and then there are some people you build a longer relationship with, they want to actually help them untangle these kinds of problems and they will be looking for answers so it really depends on the type of student and the type crisis that they're in. Anybody else? I think there is two parts to this but there was a study about more than 50% of Muslim youth", "youth and Muslim college students have had premarital sex, have tried alcohol. I mean again more than half of our Muslim students in a post 9-11 world were bullied at school, issues of substance abuse. These things exist in the larger Muslim community at very high rates and we have to acknowledge that they are part of our communities as well. There was a beautiful story of a companion at the time of the Prophet's life send him that kept showing up to the masjid of the prophet's life sent them drunk", "and I can't picture someone showing up to our masjid looking like that because the rest of the Muslim community would just attack them. And there was a, during this time one of the other companions he started speaking ill of this man and the Prophet got angry at him and said he has to fight the shaitan and he has deal with you don't support the shaytan against your brother He's here because he loves Allah and his prophet So the notion that someone that is", "May Allah protect us from this idea that there's ever going to be a sin that is beyond the mercy of Allah. It's just ridiculous. And it's so unfortunately rampant in this part of the religious crowd of like, okay I didn't commit this sin therefore you how dare you? Yeah.", "that I have a right to attack someone else and to not try to understand how and why they ended up, what led them to this and how we can help people heal. A lot of the times these are based in maybe unresolved trauma or based in an experience that they still need to understand and process. And it's part of our job, Chaplain Amar's point, to just be that pastoral presence to help them through. Actually there was a point where I had", "I almost try to communicate to my students. I'm like, you don't confess your sins to me? That's not the point. The point is where have you been so that we can walk along this journey together? Hazra? Yeah, so I would actually echo some of the sentiments that Omer mentioned already in terms of centering listening and making sure to build a relationship with students. Sometimes if you try to give advice prematurely it can backfire", "That student is, you don't know what their orientation is. There's so much diversity in Islam. They are Muslims who take the position that having a boyfriend or girlfriend before marriage is halal. And so you do need to respect other people's perspectives. And as a chaplain, we're sort of supposed to be more in this neutral space. But at the same time, we are counselors. We give counsel. And being able to strike that balance", "balance is hard and you just need to have like a really great relationship with that person to know where that balance is. Sometimes, you might feel that okay you can tell this person your opinion of what you think Islam would say because you think they will accept that in Asiha for others you might not be able to and you'd just have to be more respectful and tolerant", "not interested in your perspective, maybe give them resources on other perspectives that might be aligned with where they're at. You all are so mature in your professions that I would be remiss if I didn't call you back again because some of the things", "because they're riding these kids like, what's that dude's name on the horse in the Wide Wild West? Trying to protect them from everything. But riding them so hard, they're driving them to stuff. I'm going to give you all the last say because my merciless producers are telling me that I have to go away. So I'm gonna give you a last say and we'll start with Hajra.", "So just last comments. Yeah, so yeah, the points that I want to reiterate is just you know, I hope that Muslim community understands the importance of chaplaincy to begin with especially on educational spaces there's just so much Islamophobia right now we are a marginalized community", "sometimes some aspects are at odds with, you know greater cultural norms and just having that a mentor in an authoritative space on campus just would make the biggest difference in students' lives. And so that's number one. Number two I think the Muslim community needs to be open to listening to the perspectives of women", "leadership positions. Sometimes, you know, there is this fear of like Westernization or, you", "might see things differently, Muslim woman. It might not be an issue of Westernization this issue of women leadership in religious positions is a challenge that Muslim women who are authentically Muslim are facing and so we should give more space to listen to them. I have to stop you so I can give a minute to each of our other guests.", "I wanted to say that college is the time in people's lives when for the first time you're away from your parents and it's up to you to either choose Islam for yourself or not. And we see great Muslim leaders, people like Congressman Keith Ellison who is now the Attorney General of Minnesota and really just how important his role is in the current moment that we are experiencing he became a Muslim at college. What we're building is the roots for Muslim Americans", "And what is incredible about the chaplain space, it actually does include women. It includes black chaplains and really just celebrates the tapestry of the Muslim American community in a way that everybody is part of the Ummah and celebrated and still fighting the same good fight for each other. It's so beautiful. Thank you. Last word, Omar? One minute. I can't follow what they said.", "I'm simply going to put out there that, you know, from where I'm coming from, I think, you the life of the Prophet. Right? And so how can we in our capacities as chaplains on campuses embody and exemplify, right. That prophetic love and mercy and compassion that he gave not only to the Sahaba but to the world, right, to the Ummah. And so in our Salaf Mal slice that we inhabit on college campuses and inshallah beyond is", "to nurture hearts and to embody that mercy. And I think that's really at the heart of our work, as my amazing colleagues have already said and demonstrated. It's about relationship building. Thank you. I'm going to end with that I'm bringing all of you back. And what I would like for you to do, and I will chase you down, have no fear. One I would", "college administrators, and Muslim chaplaincy programs. So if you would think about those things, I will be on your email shortly. This is Critical Talk with Professor Amin Al-Din. I have had a wonderful evening, and I forgot the word already, but to the ladies, I am so glad to see you. Omar,", "you omar glad to see you again after a while and you all have just been wonderful assalamu alaikum" ]
amina_mccloud/Critical Talk with Prof_ Aminah Al-Deen_H9Qjs5LvR_o&pp=ygUVQW1pbmFoIE1jQ2xvdWQgIGlzbGFt_1742899542.opus	[ "Good evening. This is Professor Aminah Aldean, and I am just really enjoying the fact that I am joined by three esteemed chaplains who have agreed to have a conversation with me tonight about university chaplaincy. Dr. Aminat Darwish is the Muslim", "is the Muslim Life Coordinator at Columbia University in New York. She's earned Ijazahs and traditional Islamic studies certifications from the Qualum Seminary in Dallas, and the Critical Loyalty Seminar in Toronto, Ontario guys. She has also studied individually under different scholars from all over the world.", "and chemical engineering before switching careers. And I love this part, to follow her true passion for community building. Omar Bajwa is the director of Muslim life in the chaplain's office at Yale University. He has engaged in religious service, social activism, interfaith engagement, and educational outreach since 2000.", "His interests include Islam in the United States, inter-religious engagement, Islamic global media and interactions between culture politics and spirituality. Hajra Sharif last on this list is an Amama chaplain. Hajro Shariff holds a bachelor's degree in philosophy and economics", "who go from Wesley College and a master's in Islamic studies with both academic and traditional training. She also studied in and visited various Muslim cultures, including Jordan, Malaysia, Palestine, Turkey, and Indonesia. Oh my goodness, such an esteemed group. I can just go over to the side", "and let you all roll with it. But let me start out with, you know that chaplaincy has a very deep-rooted Christian heritage. And it is only been very recently that others were even considered, right? And Christians of course thought they can mentor to anybody anytime anywhere", "anywhere, any place. So what I'm going to ask you is how do you understand that history? Have you taken up the ball of that history ministering to anybody anywhere or have you decided to minister to Muslim students? You can all answer at once.", "take time. Let's start with Amina. It is such an honor to be here with Professor Amina, I think part of it is just going back to the history of our institutions themselves. Colombia is older than the country itself there's a long history there with colonialism, with slavery, with just a lot of the dark parts of American history so just even coming through all of that we were originally a Christian institution", "And now we are a secular university that is trying to figure itself out. And this is just another layer of us trying to find ourselves as a country, an institution. We do do a lot of interfaith work. I think it's really important to engage with people of other religions partially for our own students to learn about other traditions but also so that we're engaging with the religious tapestry of America.", "most part and all of our programs are the majority of our program is Muslim specific programs. But the interface space is so rich and interesting, I really love it. Hadira? Can you repeat the question? You know that I'm a very young woman. And I'll forget a question in a minute. Okay. I do have a sense what the question was, so I will just answer that.", "So you talked about how chaplaincy originated from the history of the Christian tradition. And while I understand that to be true, it has since evolved to include people of all religious and spiritual traditions. So with respect to Islam we see that Muslim chaplain in the United States began in the prisons as a form of law or outreach.", "that was something that the Nation of Islam was very much into. But more recently, post 9-11 this work has evolved to focus on interfaith between Muslims and non-Muslims. And I actually like to take it a step further by not only engaging in interfaithe but also multicultural dialogue because the difference between the two in my opinion is you know, interfaite kind of focuses", "differences and finding common ground but multiculturalism, multicultural dialogue also you know acknowledges power differences and centers historically marginalized voices so when that includes Muslim voices. So in some sense there is this shift away from needing to prove", "religion, which is kind of the approach taken in the early days of post 9-11. So in this new space I found that in particular my work i'm trying to center Muslims a little bit more and I do that by focusing on three things strengthening Muslim identity engaging in multicultural dialogue and contributing to anti-racist work by countering Islamophobia so I hope to expand", "for both strengthening Muslim identity as well as engaging in soldier-focused work. Omar, chime in please. Sure. Bismillahirrahmanirrahiim everyone. Thank you so much to my colleagues and friends just fantastic comments. So many threads did sort of tease out there I'll jump in with sort of two quick points the first is i definitely appreciate the beginning of the question is that it's very imperative for us to know the history of uh the genealogy rather how we got here so in my reading I've been at Yale for 12 going on 13 years now", "years now. My reading of this, Yale also like Columbia is an ancient institution so to speak and so the genealogy is very much out of a liberal protestant framework right? And so where I just to jump into it where I see the intersection with our work is by us a reading or a study of our tradition of our own prophetic tradition from the Nabi ﷺ is that the work of pastoral care is like in the DNA of the ministry of the Prophet ﷺ so to", "literally just the way everything that he cared for and took care of in the community is that I think it's work. What we're bringing through in all of our respective ministries is an inflection of that, right? And so, and then the second point that I'll briefly make is that you know, we have incredible they're fascinating threads, right, of prison chaplaincy military hospital but we all work in the, were privileged to work in", "incredibly talented, driven ambitious young Muslims who are going through as Shabban Hajra said issues of exploring their identity and so we're there to sort of in the chaplaincy language walk with them along that journey right? And be there as friends, as interlocutors, as empathetic listeners, as non-anxious presence. And then as when appropriate really being deep dialogue right with them. And which was pretty said before is at same time a flip side of our chaplains work", "is that we are in many ways the Muslim interlocutor to the broader university community, right? Whether it's about issues of Islam and environmentalism, Islam and human rights, Islam anti-black racism work or anti racist works. So these are privileged positions that we in fact have so. Okay I wanna dig down a little deeper and play the angel's advocate. In this country,", "supposed to have a kind of wall of separation between church and state. Religious institutions, of course, promote religion. Secular institutions, however, are not supposed to support religion. So let me get a little deeper. I don't care if you're Muslim. If you went to", "You're supposed to be there learning biochemical engineering, chasing fruit flies, learning something about history. Your feeding your soul is supposed to happen in another space. Talk to me chaplains. I'll just jump in. Thank you very much for the question.", "I think that mindset or that line of thinking is common, like I've heard it many times. What I would gently sort of redirect, instead of saying pushback, is that I think it's not... It's a little bit short-sighted because we're all complex individuals, right? Race, gender, ethnicity, religious identity, spiritual identity, linguistic identity. We're all made up of different parts and to say", "stick, right? That walk into a university that are going to absorb this knowledge and walk out after four years with a BA or six years of the PhD. I think just isn't honest to experience. And we have people at this very formative intellectual emotional growth period in their late teens early 20s they're going through a lot, right there processing engaging with the world and spiritual is as important as their ethnic identity, their racial identity.", "I think the part of a beauty of a liberal arts education is actually engaging that seriously with those ideas, right? Is that people are complex and liberal arts talk about human condition. And this is what asked to be human condition and so. That's great. Sure. I think that what you were getting at, the separation of church and state is actually only relevant to public universities, private colleges,", "public universities colleges uh do hire chaplains and um there actually is a way for public uh for people for religious communities to fund their own chaplins at public colleges and universities and i actually encourage muslim community to organize and start funding because you know in this space muslim students you know they don't have a lot of", "have a lot of administrative support, people who understand the needs of Muslims especially in this climate of Islamophobia and just having an authoritative figure on campus who understands and can advocate for the needs that are most critical for their long-term growth. College years are formative years of identity so not having that support system in place early on can be damaging in the long run for the Muslim community", "I just hope that we can organize ourselves and start understanding the importance of having a presence on college campuses. But Amina, my God, there are over 1,000 faith traditions. Are we going to have a chaplain for each one? Are we gonna have authority figures advocating for each", "whole selves to campus in the spirit of inclusion, if there's a large enough group of students they have to be able to have their religious identities just acknowledged. If there is a student that is only eating halal or vegetarian food or kosher food and you don't serve it to them then you're saying you don' t get to eat at the dining hall. How can we do that for tens of thousands", "afford to do that for every dietary wish, every prayer wish, everything? Do they then get out of the business of teaching subjects for careers and professions and cross that line and get into the business", "Columbia University who has never in their life engaged with someone that has a different dietary need, has missed part of the learning they should have gotten at a global campus. Has missed part even just understanding and this is even with our interfaith dialogue it isn't about hey I'm going to bring a sanitized version of me no I will bring my whole self tell you exactly how I feel if I can't do that then the university", "allowing the students to bring their whole selves. The idea of secularism is based on we're not the default religion that was there, and the default religious that was again these white male Episcopal priests. And need to create a space for everyone else to say okay even if we are not choosing one religion we will still acknowledge the existence of different religions I think universities as big as Columbia have at least 15 religious life advisors", "advisors on campus and I think it's so fascinating. Half of them are different Christian sex, which is also interesting because when we say we're going to do interfaith work with the Christians they're like well which ones? How do we talk about orthodoxy within even the Christian traditions and how do we engage? And it just creates for a richer educational experience I think. Just on that note I want to jump in with a quick thought thank you so much is that sort of", "hear chaplain Amina's words are really in the when we talk about the project of education is that we want to include it in the include in that conversation, the idea of religious literacy. So she said it so beautifully is that if you go through four years at a selective institution and you've never had exposure to difference I mean that I think something it leaves a lot to be desired in what the faculty and the people who design curriculums are doing those institutions because", "have professional schools, right? You just have vocational schools. I don't mean to knock that out. There's definitely a very important place for that. Then we're not calling it university education, right. That's a very singular track of education where you go and you get sort of a product at the end of it. And I think university education is much more about diversity and inclusion. And then the other thing I just want to add in there to Amina's point is that in our respective institutions", "institutions like these are were part of the colonial projects in some way right is that yale was modeled off of oxford and cambridge which were part", "So in 250 years of its history, it was a male only, a white male institution. This is imperative now in the moment that we live and that we reorganize, dismantle, and redistribute power in these institutions. Okay. We're going to take a few second break here and come back with Hajra to jump in this conversation.", "Hadira, jump in. Sure I just wanted to make one additional point in the way that you framed your question about well can we accommodate for all of these other religions?", "Like, why is it such a problem? Accommodating for the needs of marginalized people. Well one reason- Positive. Couldn't have class if you accommodated everybody's religious holiday. Right but in terms of dietary restrictions, it's very easy to accommodate that there's not a huge cost to doing something like that. Well it's expensive.", "I mean, not necessarily. There's not too many dietary restrictions in general. I mean buying halal chicken versus normal. We have vegans. We vegetarians. I don't want to take the mic from you, Hadra. I'm sorry. But we actually have an example at Yale if you don't mind me sharing for the good of the group. So several years ago I was in conversation with Yale Dining", "with Yale Dining. And long story short, they redid their whole strategic plan and business plan. And alhamdulillah, one of the things was a resource ethically produced produce and ingredients as much as possible in their dining halls. Part of that plan, they actually found halal meat suppliers that met their strategic point. So the point is that at Yale, in all of its 14 residential college dining halls, we actually have halal chicken as a default. Halal chicken and beef on the line,", "which is actually meets all the criteria for all of the different things that they want to look at. But to the other point, and then I'm sorry, Farajara, for taking the mic from you. Is that we're living in an age now where dining professionals take a lot of this very seriously, where there's every menu item that you go into a dining hall has allergen information, right? If you have shellfish allergy, if you have a peanut allergy,", "cages to religious groups is that if you're vegan, if you vegetarian, if eat halal, if there's alcohol present in an ingredient most colleges now will actually list that because they care very much about the health and well-being of students. So this I think interacts very well with that but please give the mic back.", "things that I've heard is from the workers and trying to tend to what they perceive of as the food of foreigners. And having the cost from students, the cost of meal cards and stuff going up because then you have many more vendors than you had originally. And for the poor, that's exorbitant.", "And while it might be nice for those who can afford it, it is not so nice for many minority students who have to pay higher costs as they serve the desires of others. That's true but having said that part of the struggle is a lot of so at Columbia a lot", "every incoming freshman is required to be on the dining plan. And if they are on the planning, especially during Ramadan, if they don't get halal food, they're essentially paying for food that they cannot eat. And this is true of a lot of other students and I'm really grateful for the dining staff at Columbia that I think we have four Jane students that are on a strict vegan diet and they get accommodated those four students because again", "Because again, it would have been insane to try to make all of it vegan. So instead what they did is these specific students have a relationship with the staff and they essentially give them a heads up before they come into the dining hall. No, I think those things are always accommodated but I'm just thinking about the numbers of students whose meal plans I've paid for because as the meal plans went up", "went up to accommodate students from other places, they used their meal cards up very quickly and then were hungry. And I think that smacks a little bit of an elitism that smacked off a little but of ethnocentrism that's smacks of a little racism that's not being dealt with here.", "It's not so nice. I apologize, I didn't mean to cut you off. I think it's a fascinating conversation and dimension to all of this is the economics of higher education which in some ways totally needs to be... We need to have that hard conversation about why are the costs going up across the board in higher education where it's actually becoming unaffordable for the majority of people in this country? And I'm not an economist but I read in The Chronicle of Higher Ed", "But Hasbro is an economist. Hasbro. Okay, are we going to get to a point where it's literally going to price out the majority of people in the country? Exactly.", "that they are trying from the conversations I'm privy to, and I'm very mindful of the fact that I am at a ridiculously privileged and elite institution. Like I put that up front, right? Yale is not, it's the 1%, right? It's not most colleges in the country. But what they try to do in many of these places is they want to give a living wage to their workers, right, and so gets into complex issues of you have to raise labor costs go up which at some level has been filtered down", "et cetera. And I feel more complex than that because- But it's also, in addition to the economics is back to what all of you have talked about liberal education. You're forcing me an evangelical Christian to be mindful of when I serve a Muslim or Jew or vegan or whatever else it is running around out there. You see what", "serving food. I'm a human being with my own religious proclivities. Hydra, jump in. Well, when you mentioned Christian these public institutions they're not funded by Christians. These are public institutions therefore they need to accommodate for the public it's not about", "non-Christians. But public institutions are funded by many Christian groups. Right, but when you fund a public institution your self interests don't matter at that point. There's never a time when an American's self interest don't manver. Never. I mean it's not supposed to. It is a public", "the public interest not specifically but most homes are teeny tiny teeny tiny part of it is in public interest to be accommodating to everyone and creating an open society because in the long term this just creates better society you have to look at education they gain in other ways if you're just fixated on this tiny thing about oh giving you know a small accommodation we will miss out", "of creating a cosmopolitan culture, et cetera. And this is the same line of reasoning that people use whether we should support welfare programs or not. Again it's about the public good and then like the societal benefits, the intangible societal benefit. Exactly. Amina? I think because Colombia can actually buy food at bulk, it actually becomes cheaper than some of the food in the surrounding area except for of course the halal cart. The halal", "always standard the cheapest food that you can get. But apart from that, if you want quality food, the assumption is the Muslim students wouldn't be paying for food anyway. In fact, the university is just taking in those dollars their students apart from the freshmen because they expect you to buy a ton of meal plans. Students, a lot of the other students even graduate students opted into the dining plan because it was cheaper for them per meal than it was to just be eating out", "in a surrounding area that is very pricey. Yeah, well let's move on. What other religious traditions have each of you studied in your role as a chaplain? Could you repeat the question please? What other religions traditions have you studied", "I mean, I'll just jump in real quick and then I defer to my friends and colleagues here. You know, in my training, I went to Hartford Seminary. I'm a graduate of Hartford seminary. And so it's originally a Christian institution that has much more of an ecumenical approach now. And through my work at Cornell when I was doing a master's in Islamic studies, you know, I took Hebrew Bible New Testament and then obviously I went", "I've had exposure. And then in work at Yale, we have on staff again because of the nature of how we're very fortunate is I have a colleague that's a Hindu director of Hindu life and a director of Buddhist life. So I have close working relationships with the Buddhist chaplain and the Hindu chaplain so in my dozen plus years on the job, I learned a lot and continue to learn in my work with Hindu and Buddhist communities on campus.", "I agree. I think there's a certain level of privilege that we have, but most other people don't that we can...I have a friend that is a Hindu chaplain that I can call up at any point and ask about any specific thing. I have the same working relationship with Christian Jewish and Buddhist ministers and all them and just say, Hey, this is what's happening. Before we had a Hindu Chaplin on campus, I had an Indian student come to my office and he's Hindu and he was like, My brown parents are really disappointed in me. And so are mine.", "And he came home and we had this conversation because for a lot of our conversations with students, yes it's somewhat within a religious framework but just as human beings there are certain struggles that are very similar. There was no point where he felt like I was trying to push Islam on him nor was he trying to put Hinduism on me but at the same time we were trying to find common ground of how can we have a difficult conversation with our parents? How do we do this? Alhamdulillah my parents have since come around", "come around and I just it was a fascinating conversation to have with the student alhamdulillah now we do have a Hindu chaplain that he can go to but i still have now have a relationship with the students that I don't think I would have otherwise. Yeah so I actually have a background in Islamic studies, I've studied Islam for five plus years um so my concentration obviously is Islam", "you know, in some readings I would not claim myself to be an expert. But I've also read in depth the works of Nasser and other Perennialist writers. And I think that sort of perspective is beneficial as a chaplain because we're supposed to be speaking widely to people from a perspective of shared common, shared values, shared spiritual wisdom, et cetera. And it's not so much still important", "when it comes to different religions for more of how we can unite under these common values. And so my background in these plenum readings was very helpful in my chaplaincy job also just like others have mentioned, learning on the job interacting with the other chaplains in everyday sense not necessarily informal interfaith events but those everyday conversations that you have with people they really open up windows because", "you're not going to forget that stuff because it's rooted in words whereas if you read something in a book and you don't have anything to root it in, you could easily forget it. So just having that human connection has been instrumental in me gaining a wider perspective and understanding the other religious traditions. I think that's great because a lot of people think that the only thing Muslim chaplains do is Muslim stuff. And it's important for them to hear", "guys are not told on the walkway you're in everything and conferring with your um colleagues now omar will take you out of this conversation for a minute and i'm gonna ask the women women chaplains i mean you know we have serious issues with women because omar of men all over", "Now you show up as chaplains with jobs, draw salary, with authority. With responsibility. Talk to me ladies. I think my first week on campus four of the male students asked when we were going to hire a khatib. The first one I just started. The second one was confused.", "it's gonna be a while. And Alhamdulillah to their credit, those same four students came around and started attending halaqas and became involved in a way that I was very grateful. And they didn't just dismiss me offhand. There are some students that would but at the same time, I feel like it gave me space to have conversation. There're a lot of women that have been disenfranchised from the Muslim community and it put me in a really good position", "position to try to bring them back in and i remember actually in the last month i think i had three different women of different ages and have different very different experiences that said this was the first time that they have felt that islam could be for them that allah could love them yeah isn't that something all the muslims are men and the women i don't know what they do", "I studied Islam and I was looking for something to do with it. If I was a man, you could try to be an imam at a mosque or get invited to speak at things. And there's lots of opportunities but for a woman, it's so much more difficult. And so this was one of the few outlets for someone like myself. And of course there are challenges in terms of your legitimacy being questioned", "That's something that I had to deal with kind of on the first day. And also just questions about leading prayer and all of these things, it's how do you deal with those questions? What stance you decide to take can have real world consequences, right? You might divide your community but at the same time we need to stand up for social justice in women. So like where is the balance, right. And sometimes you might decide that, you know what", "to do this. I'm going to lead this prayer or whatever and even if you disagree with me, you're gonna...I hope that we can create a culture of tolerance because the inconvenience that the majority experiences because they see something new or something new is happening is not even close", "gain if they go outside of the grain and do things that are counter to culture. So yeah, and that's actually why I go by the name imama as well chaplain because authority is granted through these titles. And so if you don't use these titles, then sometimes diminishing your own authority. And I have had just as much training as some of these other people who call themselves Imams or whatever.", "also this title of imam and i think amina needs that as well my one of my male students actually started the imamana which i thought was hilarious it kind of stuck i love it ladies i'm going to use it and push it out there i think one of the things on many campuses and especially with i'm gonna put this out there and we're gonna take another quick break", "is the diversity of students. African-American Muslim students have often felt left out as have Chinese Muslims students, as have well not so much white Muslims but Latino Muslims too. So I'm gonna give you a few seconds to think about that and we're going to go to break.", "I think I beat him in terms of taking a station break. But nevertheless, your comments. What can we do?", "to change this dynamic? I think we have to embed it in our programming. We made a point to make sure that at least one speaker every year that we invited was Black, at least on speaker that we invite every year was Shia, to make the students see themselves represented also in their religious authority. This is our signature program", "program was called Ramadan Around the World. And it's the first time that Ramadan is going through the school year and it was so much fun because what we did is we had cultural groups take each taken iftad where they are dressing up, if they want, they are talking about their culture and they're ordering food from that specific, from their specific culture. And again, we had someone to be like, oh yeah of course Columbia has the money to do this. And I'm like look Jollof rice is not more expensive than biryani. It's just not.", "We are just going out of our way to make sure that different cultures are celebrated. The Black student organization, Muslim and non-Muslim alike, attended all like we had a Somali night, a Senegalese night and an African American night where we ordered soul food. And we're lucky enough to be in New York where you can just order food from everywhere. But students were coming because this was a space where their culture was celebrated in a positive and affirming way.", "students are talking about their historical traditions regarding the Shi'a. Students did the same thing where we had the Irani night and they were eating kubeda, and we're drinking like saffron tea, like everybody is really enjoying the Iqbal but we heard that she had them for the first time for a lot of the students. We wrote a little later if you are unfamiliar with these traditions maybe college should be", "once a year that you see the beautiful tapestry of the American Muslim community in a way that is fun, that is engaging, that just results in really good food. Jump in. I mean, I just want to jump in with what Chapman Amina was saying. She articulated so beautifully with actually concrete examples. What came to my mind to your question was really this is the work of DEI, right? Diversity, Equity and Inclusion.", "equity and inclusion. And so we need to be deeply engaged, and on the ground in that kind of work with our partners on campuses people that work in cultural centers, people that working student affairs, people who work religious affairs as equal contribution partners interlocutors right saying that we absolutely need to create this space for the Latinx community on campus for the native indigenous community on Campus, the black community on", "blessed if we take our work seriously to have like such an incredibly, and that word is so beautiful. The tapestry of the beauty of the Muslim world is that we represent the most multicultural right? And multi ethnic religious community arguably on a college campus in 2020, right? In terms of just the kind of engagement we have, the levels of engagement, the diversity within our communities that come... This has been mentioned before but that's what I think is that", "our work seriously and I'll be the first one to point at myself as needing to do better is that it can be transformative. So, that's what I would kind of thoughts that come to mind to your question and on the previous question I very much appreciate how we need to grapple with the gender issues head-on and so I want to listen more than speak. Yeah, so I agree you know with everything that was said", "said and you know I mean what you said about representing different ethnicities in uh different genders in uh you know the speakers that are invited, and i think the MSA has done a great job with that. But what I do specifically as a chaplain because you know what the MSC does is not what Ido necessarily is that I make it a point to reach out to Chia black Muslims or anyone else who may be marginalized in the community. And I spend time talking to them in office hours", "a support system when they need it. And that just helps make them feel a little bit more welcome and accepted in the Muslim community. I just make it a point to go out of my way, and make sure that they have that personal relationship with me so that if something happens in the MSA or in the greater Muslim body, we can ask someone to turn to and they're not alone. So that's specifically what I do.", "Okay, I want to turn to the more sensitive side. Oh, Amala gave me that look. Okay, so sex before marriage, pornography, the alphabet crowd, my parents have driven me to my wit's end, I've been bullied and I might commit suicide. How?", "How are we to deal with these things, which are also a part of that maturation process? Don't everybody jump at once. I mean, I always have a lot to say and I talk too much so I don't want to be the first one to jump in. No, we know how to shut you up, Omar. Don't worry. Just go for it. No no thank you. What I would say is", "One of the things that comes to mind, and then I'll hand it over is that really our training equips us or should equip us to listen more than we speak. Right? Especially in the beginning. And part of the essence of what it means to be a chaplain, to be pastoral presence is to be non-anxious, nonjudgmental presence on campus in these students' lives because we're well aware with all the things you mentioned reality of contemporary culture, right? That young people are faced with this onslaught, right where", "right? And we can unpack that at so many levels. But we want to be ideally inshallah the person in life or the group of people in their life, when they walk through the door, we meet them where they're at, right? That we sit down, we listen, we ask reflective questions, we asked deep questions and do we do deep listening? And so we kind of walk on that journey with", "is helping them come through unpacking these issues themselves. That's what I would lead with, and then there are some people you build a longer relationship with, they want you to actually help them untangle these kinds of problems and be looking for answers. So it really depends on the type of student and the type crisis that they're in. Anybody else? I think there's two parts to this but there was a study about more than 50% of Muslim youth", "youth and Muslim college students have had premarital sex, have tried alcohol. I mean again more than half of our Muslim students in a post 9-11 world were bullied at school, issues of substance abuse. These things exist in the larger Muslim community at very high rates and we have to acknowledge that they are part of our communities as well. There was a beautiful story of a companion at the time of the Prophet's life send them that kept showing up to the masjid of the prophet's life sent him drunk", "and I can't picture someone showing up to our masjid looking like that because the rest of the Muslim community would just attack them. And there was a, during this time one of the other companions he started speaking ill of this man and the Prophet got angry at him and he said he has to fight the Shaytan and he has deal with you don't support the Shayta against your brother. He's here because he loves Allah and his prophet so the notion that someone that is", "May Allah protect us from this idea that there's ever going to be a sin that is beyond the mercy of Allah. It's just ridiculous. And it's so unfortunately rampant in this part of the religious crowd of like, okay I didn't commit this sin therefore you how dare you? Yeah.", "that I have a right to attack someone else and to not try to understand how and why they ended up, what led them to this and how we can help people heal. A lot of the times these are based in maybe unresolved trauma or based in an experience that they still need to understand and process. And it's part of our job, Chaplain Amar's point, to just be that pastoral presence to help them through. Actually there was a point where I had to put up like almost", "I almost try to communicate to my students. I'm like, you don't confess your sins to me? That's not the point. The point is where have you been so that we can walk along this journey together? Hazra? Yeah, so I would actually echo some of the sentiments that Omer mentioned already in terms of centering listening and making sure to build a relationship with students. Sometimes if you try to give advice prematurely it can backfire for", "Where that student is, you don't know what their orientation is. There's so much diversity in Islam. They are Muslims who take the position that having a boyfriend or girlfriend before marriage is halal. And so you do need to respect other people's perspectives. And as a chaplain, we're sort of supposed to be more in this neutral space. But at the same time, we are counselors. We give counsel. And being able to strike that balance", "balance is hard and you just need to have like a really great relationship with that person to know where that balance is. Sometimes, you might feel that okay you can tell this person your opinion of what you think Islam would say because you think they will accept that in Asiha for others you might not be able to and you'd just have to be more respectful and tolerant", "not interested in your perspective, maybe give them resources on other perspectives that might be aligned with where they're at. You all are so mature in your professions that I would be remiss if I didn't call you back again because some of the things you're talking about parents need to know also.", "because they're riding these kids like, what's that dude's name on the horse in the Wide Wild West? Trying to protect them from everything. But riding them so hard, they're driving them to stuff. I'm going to give you all the last say because my merciless producers are telling me that I have to go away. So I'm gonna give you a last say and we'll start with Hajra.", "So just last comments. Yeah, so yeah, the points that I want to reiterate is just you know, I hope that Muslim community understands the importance of chaplaincy to begin with especially on educational spaces there's just so much Islamophobia right now so many you know we are marginalized community where our", "Sometimes some aspects are at odds with, you know greater cultural norms and just having that a mentor in an authoritative space on campus just would make the biggest difference in students' lives. And so that's number one. Number two I think the Muslim community needs to be open to listening to the perspectives of women and the challenges they face", "leadership positions. Sometimes, you know, there is this fear of like Westernization or, you", "might see things differently, Muslim woman. It might not be an issue of Westernization this issue of women leadership in religious positions is a challenge that Muslim women who are authentically Muslim are facing and so we should give more space to listen to them. I have to stop you so I can give a minute to each of our other guests.", "I wanted to say that college is the time in people's lives when for the first time you're away from your parents and it's up to you to either choose Islam for yourself or not. And we see great Muslim leaders, people like Congressman Keith Ellison who is now the Attorney General of Minnesota and really just how important his role is in the current moment that we are experiencing he became a Muslim at college. What we're building is the roots for Muslim Americans", "and what is incredible about the chaplain space, it actually does include women. It includes black chaplains. It really just celebrates the tapestry of the Muslim American community in a way that everybody is part of the Ummah and celebrated and still fighting the same good fight for each other. And I just, it's so beautiful. Thank you. Last word, Omar? One minute.", "I'm simply going to put out there that, you know, from where I'm coming from, I think, you and so how can we in our capacities as chaplains on campuses embody and exemplify, right? That prophetic love and mercy and compassion that he gave not only to the Sahaba but to the world. Right? To the Ummah. And so in our Salam al-Saleh that we inhabit on college campuses and inshaAllah beyond is", "to nurture hearts and to embody that mercy. And I think that's really at the heart of our work, as my amazing colleagues have already said and demonstrated. It's about relationship building. Thank you. I'm going to end with that I'm bringing all of you back. And what I would like for you to do, and I will chase you down, have no fear. One I would", "college administrators, and Muslim chaplaincy programs. So if you would think about those things, I will be on your email shortly. This is Critical Talk with Professor Aminah Aldean. I have had a wonderful evening, and I forgot the word already, but to the ladies, I am so glad to see you. Omar,", "you omar glad to see you again after a while and you all have just been wonderful assalamu alaikum" ]
amina_mccloud/Critical Talk with Prof_ Aminah Al-Deen Ph_D__Aanh1IYjevI&pp=ygUVQW1pbmFoIE1jQ2xvdWQgIGlzbGFt_1742895498.opus	[ "Good afternoon. You are here with Professor Amin Al-Deen in Critical Talk, and I have the esteemed honor of having as my guest tonight Dr. Lamont Hill. Dr.", "and he was a political contributor for CNN. He's an award-winning journalist, and you can look him up on Huffington Post, and he's received numerous prestigious awards and has been named one of America's 100 most influential Black leaders. I would say leaders, but Black leaders too by Ebony Magazine. Dr. Hill is the Stephen Charles Professor of Media City and Solutions.", "and Solutions at Temple University in Philadelphia, PA. Prior to that he held positions at Columbia University and Morehouse College. He's trained as an anthropologist of education and he holds a PhD with distinction from the University of Pennsylvania. His research focuses on the intersections between cultural politics and educations", "And I want to say good evening. Take your mute off. Mute. Mutes. There we go. Sorry about that. Good evening. Salaam alaikum. Walaikum salaam. And I haven't seen you in a minute, but you're always up to something. One of the things I would like to do tonight, which is a little different than the show usually runs.", "runs, we usually launch into an interview. But this was so powerful that I'm going to ask my producer to put on a short video which I'm gonna let frame our conversation this evening. Thank you.", "on so you listen to us and you don't listen until you feel some of this pain. On Monday, May 25th, George Floyd was killed by Minneapolis police. He was unarmed and he wasn't resisting arrest. Ever since that moment the city has been up in arms there have been protests", "The most recent protests have been so intense that a target caught on fire, that things were destroyed. And the media and citizens are saying, why are these people rioting? Well, I'm going to tell you why. First of all, these are not riots. Riots are irrational. They're random. Theyre just brutal acts of violence with no rhyme or reason, with no purpose. These are rebellions. Rebellions are organized act of resistance against an unjust system.", "What's happening in Minneapolis is no different to what happened in Detroit in 1967, what happened In LA in 1992. What happened in Ferguson in 2014? What's happenin is people who have finally said we have had enough and we are going to do something about it. People say well why now because we're tired black death happens every day if black folk rebelled every time something happened that should not happen. We'd be", "all day. But we don't do that. But there comes a point where you've had enough. We're at a moment where we can't turn on the television, we can go to social media without seeing somebody who looks like us put down like a dog killed by the state, killed by random white citizens just because we're committing the crime of being black and outside. We are tired of it. We were tired of being one phone call away from a disgruntled white woman with an unleashed dog", "We're tired. We're tires and the problem is y'all don't listen until we do something. Martin Luther King said, The riot is the language of the unheard. Well these rebellions are the language on the unheard this system does not listen to black death. Black Death is ordinary. Black death is common. No other race is on the news or social media getting killed day after day after today without any warning only black folk so the reason why we have to do this is to get the nation's attention", "attention. And how do you get the nation's attention? By damaging their property and by making them feel as unsafe as we feel every single day. Now that's not to say we should go around killing people, that's out to say, we should just burn stuff up just to burn it down. But every once in a while, we have to make our voices heard. We have to our pain known. And sometimes that means stopping a cog in the wheel of capitalism. Sometimes that means shutting down a target. Sometimes", "feeling. That's the same outrage we feel by exploitative business. That is the same when a government opens up the country as soon as they realize there are only Black folk dying. The same unsafety and vulnerability that y'all are feeling right now, we feel every day so you can understand enough is enough. We tried sitting in, chanting, singing, rapping, hashtagging,", "Listen, until you feel some of this pain. People are saying, well, you're destroying your own neighborhoods. Look how irrational these people are again. Stop framing black people as irrational. We're not destroying our own neighborhood. That target might be in the hood, but we don't own it. Those businesses might be", "we don't have a plan it's because y'all haven't listened to plan a or plan b or plan c or plan d so by the time we get to this stage this is all we have left so if you want there not to be rebellions if you don't want to see these cities on fire then listen to us when we tell you we're in pain listen to", "See how powerful that was? I don't know if you were even looking at yourself, but I am and I want to hold this book up. And I'm hoping let me see which way do I have to go that my producer gets it. This was written a few short years ago, but it is important because it begins a narrative", "a narrative that the video we just watched furthers down the line. And nobody was, Mark got, he starts off with The Invisible Man and he takes walks us through vulnerability and a special kind of condition that African-Americans find themselves in. So I'm gonna shut up and let you tell everybody about the book", "Oh, thank you. First of all, thank for inviting me. It's always an honor to be in your presence as a black scholar You are one of the kind of... You don't have to be nice to me just go with the book I know if i got to my mama raised me right As no but seriously as a Black Scholar we all owe a debt to you and your work was path-breaking and courageous And even those of us who don't", "those of us who don't do work on African American Islam in particular, still learn from you how to navigate the academy. How to be a stellar scholar who can take their own path and reject those people and those ideas that undermine our humanity, undermine our intelligence, undermine ability to see black people as full human beings. I mean,", "all so many of us courage to do the same thing. Thank you. No, thank you. The book, Nobody I wrote, you know, I wrote Nobody sort of unexpectedly. It was at my house. I was here in Philadelphia and I was watching the news and then I was looking on social media and I saw that this boy had been killed in some town I had never heard of in Missouri right outside of St. Louis. And yeah, I ain't no Ferguson.", "Ferguson was, you know. This is 2014 and nobody knew who Ferguson was outside of that area. And I noticed on social media that he had been killed by a police officer but his body was still out there and activists kept tweeting about him. In the street! Right on Canfield in the street. It blew my mind. Something was different about this story. Two days later BET sent me out there to", "as a journalist to cover the story of Mike Brown and this boy who'd been killed. And when I got down there, I saw some things that shook me. First of all you could almost still smell death in the air. There was still stains of blood on the ground. People were still emotionally taken. In a lot of ways it was like the lynchings at the 20th century and the end of the 19th century where the death wasn't just about destroying that body. It was about sin. It Was about the spectacle of death. Yes. And what that meant for everybody watching it", "everybody watching it. Right? You know, so we saw I sat there and looked at that thing. And I remember standing out there in this black girl said to me, she said, Well, she looked at the space where Mike had been. As you say he was up there for four and a half hours. Yes. But half of that time, there was not even a sheet to cover his body. Right. You know? No medical establishment no nothing. And somebody said they left him out there like he belonged to nobody. Exactly.", "Exactly. And that shook me to my soul because it was like there's a way that we treated that body, like there was no parent who loved him, no family who cared about him. There was no state to protect him and there was not medical establishment attend to him. You know? And even before he got on the ground, there was school system to invest in him. No police force to not harass him and to protect them. As we went down the list I said what does it mean for Mike Brown not just get killed", "police officer for after getting stopped for jaywalking yeah but what does it mean for an entire system to render you uh unworthy of what we think you get in a society like this so i said i'm gonna tell the whole story of mike brown that's all i wanted to do and as i was watching and writing the story of Mike Brown I heard about Tamir Rice, I heard Eric Garner. We watched Freddie Gray die, we watched Sandra Bland die", "Ferguson. I got to tell a story from Ferguson, right? And it's funny because initially was going to be Ferguson to Baltimore but then I looked and said wait a minute but what about Flint you know state violence ain't just about police shooting us it's about that lead that's in the water right you know it's not where they dump nuclear waste it's You know all these other things and so I decided to tell the story that showed how what it means to be rendered nobody in America what it meant", "the spoils of democratic citizenship, what it means to be somebody who doesn't deserve investment and protection and safety. And what it finally means to live in a world where the government has privatized our concerns. The government is supposed to protect us even if you are hardcore conservative there's certain things that the government is suppose to do for us. What does it mean for us to move into that neoliberal moment where all that stuff gets privatized and profitized? Then the industries and spaces", "spaces that were given responsibility of us do what they're supposed to do. They making money, being efficient and privatized so if you have the water no longer managed by a government but managed by private agency and it doesn't care about people led in the water then you end up with people who die. So throughout the book I'm looking at... Before we go on because you know us in the academy speak a particular vocabulary. Yes. So I want to back us up", "back us up and what is neoliberalism? What do we mean when we say something comes from the government as opposed to being privatized because I don't think many of us really understand what's at stake in those notions. I think that's a great question you know, when we", "the market in other words we're saying that the way that it's free market fundamentalism it's the belief that that that the that the market that money the economics should drive all of our social decision making that means for example that the weight of fixed schools is not to invest more money in public schools let's take the public good and make it private let's make competition let's give out vouchers let's have school choice which really means a move toward privatization um", "You mean to tell me that? No. Well, I kind of know but I'm not sure I know anymore that parents especially black and brown parents ran to get those vouchers not knowing that they were being complicit in another scheme that was going to be to the detriment. This is ticking me off here. It's a fact.", "It's a fact. You write on the money, and unfortunately they always frame it in a way that makes you feel... Conservatives have a way of framing things so that it sounds like it's something you want when it's somethin' that you don't want. Exactly. War on drugs. The war ain't against the drugs, it's against poor black people that were using drugs or the victims of the drug war. The War on Terror. Except the war ain t on terror, it was on our civil liberties. And when you had this idea of school choice yet we get to choose but what are we choosing?", "choosing and what are the stakes? And so we have decided as a country that the private is better than the public. And part of how they do that in public, they make it sound like it's for black folk because they know if it's black folk ain't nobody going to want it. So this public housing even almost even when we think about the house and we don't think of them subsidies in the suburbs. We think about Taylor Homes, Cabrini Green. We've got Richie Allen in Philadelphia. When we say public education,", "We don't think about the rural schools or the suburban schools, which are public. We think about those schools inside of an urban school district that are black and brown. When we say public options in health care, people thought, oh my God, there's suddenly all these people going to be so many black and Brown people added to the hospital. And so they make public assistance right? Even though most people on welfare are white female and young, they make you think that you're not giving money to Tiffany or Becky, you're giving it to Taquanda or Talisha. And right. And So they make", "it's black. And so then the private interest becomes the way we deal with everything, and as I talk about in the book, it's not just school, it is the police departments, it s the military, you know, it' s the public defender's office. We privatize everything, when you do that, when make everything private, when talking about efficiency saving money cost cutting, when talked about austerity, government will spend less money and be more disciplined fiscally a lot of times what it means is we're not going to invest", "going to invest in the vulnerable we're going to take away the safety net but we ain't taking it away from everybody because we just saw 500 billion dollars go to wall street and corporations after coven 19 happened we keep through the cares that we keep watching the rich get socialism and or get free cap free market capitalism and it's not fair well i think you know", "because if you talk in the terms of neoliberalism this and that or the other what happens is the average one of us glazes over we don't have a clue as to what that means you know not only did a whole bunch of money almost half of it the money allotted go to corporations i just found out", "churches. And when I turned to ask folk, did Massage get any of that money? Everybody's looking at me. Well, um, did they had a right paper? I said, now you're going to ask questions so that none more asked of those groups that got $1 million apiece. Exactly. Why are you doing this to yourself when you should have gotten some of that? But you had to close down the said", "You had security people. You still had bills. So why didn't you put, well? And I'm wondering... I realize some of it we're going to keep talking about what is done to us but I'm getting real tired of us shooting ourselves in the foot when we could at least shoot alongside the body instead of in the darn foot. I know that's right. We definitely got to organize", "got to organize and struggle better but whoo we like they're making a hard force man it's uphill battle it is i want to nobody starts out with those names that rose up but you know many in our audience have never uh read the invisible man", "in there about how what they did to the invisible man the invisible means on everybody's list and then what do they do it becomes the black book not a classic but the black classic so diminishing and diminishing", "so that people can get a sense of a continuing narrative. For some immigrants who have never been exposed to any of this, they had some of those questions. Why are they rioting? You know, they just looting their body and then you come back in the video which is why I was intent on playing. Look, the store is in my community but I don't own the damn store.", "making black folks live up to them along with family members that say when they do this you do that and all of the you do involved calling the police and this time when he called the police something eye-opening and exceptionally again tragic happened but also in nobody i want", "me a social arbiter yeah yeah so both of those things could you say something about yeah i'll start with the cell phone thing first you know we we live in a world where there's just more room and access uh or space for everyday citizens to do what i call another project engaging new surveillances in other words the state's been surveilling us forever i mean they've been from flesh branding", "to keep track of us forever as black folk in America. But what cell phone technology has allowed, and almost everybody in America has a cell phone now, it's penetration rate is somewhere in the 90s, and smartphones are in the 80s. And for younger folks, people younger than me, I think 18-25, it is around 95% or 85-90%. So people have these phones, they have this technology now, through cellphones, social media, live streaming, people take photos", "police. They're able to videotape police misconduct, they're able hold the state accountable in a way that we simply could not before it was a rare occurrence. It was almost a it was like hitting the lottery to be able to catch uh the officers that beat Rodney King in 1991 on video tape right um people just walk around big video cameras but now we can catch this stuff more often and the importance of", "it takes away white people's ability to say, we just didn't know. And it also I think creates a more complicated conversation about black witness what it means for black folk to say look we've been telling this story forever and now we got evidence. It ain't foolproof but it does matter that we can tell those stories about ourselves on a day-to-day basis so we can narrate our own stories, our own violence.", "And all the corporate media outlets were saying that the police was holding their ground and telling us to go home, but we're not engaging in any violence. We were getting tear gassed while the media was reporting that. And if you've been tear gassing, you know what tear gas is. You don't want to take it from nothing else. So while the corporate", "stream on Facebook, you know, we're Facebook live and we're doing all this stuff showing look no look at us on the ground right now. We are dying here. And so that cell phone technology is important because it doesn't change necessarily the hearts and minds of these folk but what it can also do is change the response. Ahmaud Arbery was killed and nobody did anything until the videotape came out. They already had", "So it wasn't like they didn't know. They didn't arrest those people because they saw the videotape, they arrested those people, because we saw the video tape. So that's also a key part of it as far as the other thing goes on you know as someone who does solidarity work with Palestinian communities both here and in Palestine um It was very interesting for me to see what it meant for George Floyd his death sequence to begin with a phone call from a store owned by a brown person", "Part of what solidarity means is we have to think about, and that's why I had the solidarity as a verb shirt on. Solidarity is not just an idea, it's an action and it's a practice. And part of what we have do is understand what it means to be black in America and that calling the police on a Black person is not the same as calling the place on a white person. Yeah? Right. We have to go to a break here. This is Critical Talk with Dr. Mark Lamont Hill.", "We're going to take a few. I'll give you a chance to at least look at your bottle of water. Thank you, Mike.", "Mike Bagley. No, you can... This is a casual show and we made it that way because we know we're coming late and people sometimes they just say if I could have a cup of coffee, I'd have one right now. Right. I want to go back What do I want? I got so many things to go", "coming to, I don't remember if it was the second or third Malcolm X Day. And I had the enormous opportunity to visit Uncle Bobby's. Could you just tell us a little bit about Uncle Bobby? What is happening? I saw online they had to get posted. It was closed temporarily but I want to know what's happening with Uncle Bobby and how that idea got started. Okay can I go now?", "Can I go now? Go. Okay, so Uncle Bobby's for me was the brainchild or it was like a life... It was a lifelong goal. You know, I grew up in Philadelphia. My father and his family is from Wilkes County, Georgia. My Father was born in 1928. His brother, my uncle Bobby was born", "they grew up in a Jim Crow South. They were second-class citizens, they went off to the army because it was the only access they had to any kind of chance to get social mobility after they left the military Uncle Bobby actually was in World War II and then came to Philadelphia my father followed him we eventually all made it to DC and in Philadelphia when we when they got there for uncle bobby he couldn't figure out why or he was troubled by the fact that", "He had fought and nearly died fighting for America around the world, and came back home and had to ride behind Nazi POWs on a train ride back home. His money was still counterfeit, still couldn't buy hamburgers, still could sit at a Hornet Harder, still can have his picture taken. My dad's class 11th grade class couldn't have its picture taken in front of Washington Monument but dogs could you know it was this kind", "of reality of an American apartheid system that they couldn't make sense of. And so Uncle Bobby said, well I need to figure this thing out. Now Uncle Bobby didn't have... In Georgia back then high school only went to 11th grade, they didn't a 12th grade. So Uncle Bobby went right to work with his 11th-grade education. My dad eventually went away to college but Uncle Bobby kept reading and he read more than my dad read. Uncle Bobby read everything. He read books, he read magazines, he'd read everything and he loved to talk about", "Bobby in Bessie's house in North Philadelphia, literally right across the street from where my office at Temple University is right now. He would have books for me. He had the copies of Ebony Jet Black Enterprise laid out on a table. I love it! It was like all the furniture covered in plastic. It was a black household. We never took the real furniture. But he gave me my first copy of E Franklin Frazier's Black Bourgeoisie.", "He presented me with a bunch of books, but also conversation on race. And it was Uncle Bobby's house that got me going to then black bookstores like Hakim's owned by Daud Hakim who was both in Atlanta and Philadelphia and part of the Western community with Imam Jamil. I started reading Ansar Law Books. I starting reading A Message To The Black Man Nation Of Islam books. I start reading the radical conspiracy theory stuff. I'm starting anything I could find", "I could find. And books became my way of figuring out who I was and trying to get free. And so, I said that if I ever had the chance to open a bookstore, if I've ever had a chance to create that space for somebody else, I would do it. So when I got a little bit of money, I say the first thing I'm going to do is open a book store. What else can I call it but Uncle Bobby's? Exactly. That's what we do at Uncle Bobby. We have books, conversations, community events. We're deeply rooted in Black writers,", "writers, black arts, black radical traditions. And we're an inclusive community, we're a diverse community but at the core, the point of the store is to create a space for these kinds of ideas. I like that place and I liked it as almost in a little square with another building if I'm not mistaken that you all took over. Yeah. We had could you just a word or two?", "People's Sanctuary. The people sanctuary is an event space, formerly a church now it's an event that we use to have big book events and conversations. You came and blessed us at the Malcolm X symposium every year we do a Malcolm X radical symposium. We're trying to keep track of the radical tradition and not let Malcolm or Martin or Angela or June Jordan or Audre Lorde", "Audrey Lorde or Ida B. Wells Barnett become less radical, or less central to our freedom struggle than they were? We wanna keep the tradition going by telling them truth about these folk. Well, I think it's just awesome and it oughta get replicated everywhere. And I just can't say enough. I was so shocked to see it in person", "all walks in and out, you know. And then just meet some old friends, some new friends at the conference which I'm going to ask you about later but I want to turn a corner as usual and should have been expected by us those in power begin their program of usurpation of what has happened how do you", "interrogate that and begin to give or provide, or collaborate or whatever it is for us to stop the Black Lives Matter. I think the first thing we have to do is analyze honor and spotlight the roots of Black Lives matter. There's no Black Lives", "is not a liberal bourgeois multicultural movement, right? It's it's a movement rooted in a black radical imagination. Black Lives Matter is a commitment to affirming the humanity of all black people which itself is a radical act in a world that doesn't see us as full human beings even now but it's also about understanding the various ways that black people are vulnerable to state violence, to structural violence etc so it's", "killing us. It's about this broader thing. So we have to, we can never lose sight of that. We also can't lose sight the black feminist roots of Black Lives Matter. There is no, you know, black feminists and black women more broadly have always kept us together and had the most ambitious freedom dreams. Black women didn't just dream to be free. They didn't dream to just like white women. They dreamed to create a world of international solidarity, a world that dismantled capitalism, a", "and patriarchy, and other things to thrive. So for me we got to hold on to that tradition otherwise Black Lives Matter will always be able to be usurped as you said by some liberal movement, by some Democratic Party movement. We have to be something bigger than that and smarter than that I think. Another thing we have to do is be clear about our demands once we know the tradition we come out of we have", "in New York, we've been calling for defunding the police. That's rooted in the work of Angela Davis and Ruth Gilmore and others who are calling to abolish police in prisons. We can't allow that to turn into a call for cops that dance with us in the street or more body cameras or warmer and fuzzier prison cells. We have to keep in mind the radical imagination that says that we can have a world without police and prison and punishment as the primary way of navigating the world.", "to that stuff. And we have to resist these folk who are trying to take over the movement, these folks who will sell you out in a minute, these folk- Exactly.... who just want to make money off books, these people who just wanna get a political office, these poeple who just wonna make it to the award shows, these peoplo who just wanna become celebrities. We can't allow them to become the leaders of this movement. What makes BLM powerful is that it was started by Black women, that it", "radical commitment and an internationalist politics. For me, if we stay true to that, we'll be okay. If not, we're going to have some problems. Wait a minute. Let me get to my next question before I get to prior questions. I've heard many times that...I don't think people really understand what systemic racism is, what institutionalized racism", "racism is comprised of. You know, I was in a conversation the other day and I found myself trying to explain that everything you say about black people could be true, it would be uncomfortable but it doesn't mean you can talk back. In the same way, I can say something about Jewish people, white people, Christians and it'd be true but it's not anti-Christian, it's", "to throw over and shut me down yeah right yeah when we say systemic racism many can't see it we feel it and live it as you said in the video if we got upset about all the microaggressions and everything else we'd be freaked out and last by five minutes right we did we do nothing but rebel it'd", "what we mean when we're talking about institutionalized racism, systemic racism. Yeah you know I like the way Ruth Gilmore talks about it a bit i would expand on it but her scholar Ruth Gilmour talks about this idea of a way of organizing in the world in a way that certain identities having a certain identity makes you vulnerable to premature death", "Oh, oh. Right? Get home. You good right? Yeah, yeah, yeah. You're getting your soul, right. So for me the fact that systemic racism, the evidence of systemic racism is the fact being Black means I'm less likely to live, I'm more likely to die. I'm most likely to because I am racialized as Black in this country. We die more at birth. We don't live as long. Black women die more giving involved", "involved in childbirth, three times their white counterparts. In terms of prosperity measures we work harder for less money, we pay more interest rates and insurance, we're more likely to get arrested, charged convicted, longer sentences, more likely executed by the state, more like food insecurity, less likely stable housing, lower salaries even if we graduate from Harvard Yale and Princeton then our white counterparts", "A white man with a felony conviction has a better chance of getting a job callback than a black man without one. I mean, any measure of what it means to be happy and prosperous in this country, we at the bottom. Any measure of social misery, we are at the top. And so for me systemic racism, it means that just by virtue of having this identity there are systems in place that make me more vulnerable to premature death that are outside the sphere of my immediate control.", "choice. I can't choose my way out of this system, right? I can' behave my way. Out of it. I cant dress my way outta it. Can't talk my way and I can speak better English so that I don't die that there are things that even if I act my best, even if behave my best even if show out that I'm still vulnerable to premature death and that is what systemic racism is all about why is it because we're still perceived as property run amok.", "And I think the reason why we're still perceived that way is because we live in a system and a country that is built on racial capitalism. And so, you know, American capitalism... It's important to think about racism as an outgrowth of capitalism. That is to say that a lot of times people think that racism comes from like we create this thing called", "called racism and then we got race. No, the first thing we did was create racial categories. We decided that we were going to organize not us. You know, you know, the invention of race by Europeans allowed for racialized and racist systems to exist. Right. Race itself is the problem. The construction of race itself is a problem. Why is race so important to America though? Because if I'm trying", "it is looking to extract value from human labor, human bodies, human existence. If we're trying to have a small sector of people who economically dominate the rest of us then race becomes an important category for capitalism to live out because now we can have a population that we decide are subhuman, that we decided are less valuable to society,", "system in order to justify both morally and strategically, politically the practice of slavery because they ain't human. And so if we can construct a racial other that then can be enslaved to build the American empire, that makes sense. And then once slavery ends now we're doing it in prisons. Now we're doin' it in all these other areas. Now were doing it through low wage work. The exploitation of black people hinges on the belief that black folk ain't", "and human hinges upon the construction of a racial system. And the construction on a racial systems hinges on the need to have a state that exploits and defends class at all costs. Okay, this is Critical Talk with Professor Aminah Odeyn talking back with Mark Lamonnell. We're going to take a break for a minute or two and we'll be right back.", "I'm a little perturbed by and scared of at the same time what i see is happening another younger friend of mine wrote an article black as king and it was to be um uh attest so do we really know what we're doing", "What is it, a video docu or whatever? Yeah. Visual album. Okay. And everybody's running after whatever dollars there are out there because now they're going to become sensitive to racism and still practice it but they're", "I've seen before. Others have been running but can't quite see, but everybody's running after a way to capitalize off of a precious devastating hard-wrenching murderous series of moments. Yeah you know whenever you have a tragedy like this there will be people who will resist, people who jump to action, but you will also have people who", "who will exploit the resistance by making money off of it. Corporate America has never found a crisis that it didn't love to exploit, you know? Black Lives Matter suddenly will become a hashtag and a T-shirt and before you know it, you now, it'll be unrecognizable. And that's just the way that symbols of resistance have always worked within, particularly within capitalist society, right? They find ways to... they co-opt the resistance, right. But then", "And then we also have to be wary of those people, because some of what I've just been talking about are systemic things. Institutions and corporations are structured to do that. People with liberal politics are inclined to look at a radical movement through their own liberal lens. I get that even if I disagree. But there's also some Negroes out there who are very intentional about presenting themselves as the leaders", "for their own benefit. You know, friends, when I'm talking to women you were having a debate with what's that? I almost heard her once and I wasn't sure I was hearing what I was here and I turned it off real quick so I didn't want to get infected. What is wrong with her? You know that that's a good question. Some people say she just has the world wrong right now. She had no point of view that she's been sort of converted by right wing thought", "And I think that's a great point.", "and attack Black Lives Matter to denounce George Floyd's, the protests in the name of George Floyd. To act as if police violence and other forms of state violence aren't legitimate, aren't really happening. We have to be honest about that and challenge those people. Well I'm gonna give you cause you're the professor here, I'm the student. Yeah right. Yeah well you know, that's true. I wanna know how we begin to strategize", "to keep them from squashing this or to make us feel so worthless that we don't continue? How do we begin that strategy? Because I know we can't do it in five seconds, which means I might have to wake you up and have you back on here again. But how do we began to strategize?", "One, I think we have to begin with the radical imagination. We gotta ask ourselves what's our freedom dream? What does the end look like? What is justice look like. Are you asking me to be Nina Simone huh? Really? We can use some Nina right now, you know? Yeah yeah. You know because that's part of the problem right? Is if I'm fighting and dreaming for to fix a prison and your fighting and dreamin' to destroy the prison this person's fighting and", "and somebody else is fighting to stop police from killing us, then we ain't on the same page even if we had the same protest. So we got to begin with articulating what are we actually trying to do here? Then from there I think we have to be mindful of the fact that sometimes having more people doesn't mean we have a stronger movement. You know, I'm not looking at...I'm not lookin' to have you know, a million people in this movement. I'd rather have 500 who have absolute faith", "and who are willing to do the work. And so for me, that commitment to having strong coalitions that are locally rooted right? If we're going to hold on to this dream, it can be an international movement but it has to be local organizing and mass action. King used to say when dogs bite us in Birmingham, we bleed everywhere. That means...and I'll tell you an example of this. In Minnesota for the first time, and part of it was because of COVID, but when everything happened to George Floyd in Minnesota,", "Don't come to Minnesota. We don't need a bunch of ambulance chasing Negroes with cameras coming to Minneapolis to do our movement. You know what we need here, unless you're a doctor, unless can do something to help us in this moment keep your behind and your city and organize there. And that kind of local action, local movement building I think allows us to keep track of the real challenges, the real problems.", "into a site of opportunism. So if we're organizing locally, where is the hub going to be? I like the idea of multiple hubs. You know, uh, I think in the past we've had, we've looked for messianic leadership. We look for one person. No, no, no. I don't want to mess in. No. Jesus and Muhammad were cool. Right. What I'm saying", "at but the problem is people are saying what's going to be the center of our of our um of our activities how do i know how do I just call you and let you know in Philadelphia what I'm doing in Chicago? And I think that's it. I think especially in the age of social media we say we have our, we connect with each other and so we have movements in Minneapolis and in Chicago and Philadelphia and when y'all have an action you reach out to us", "whether it's money, whether it is strategy, whether its education. We connect with each other and we don't have... Because the problem is if we create a single hub, then that's who runs the hub. Right, they become the leader. And before you know it, you go from hub to leader to I'm the one here to save y'all. And I try to avoid that kind of a thrust. I want to explore that some more", "asked you to get on here, but I'm going to give you the last word. What do you want our audience to know? I just want them to know that freedom is closer than we think, that we can win this fight and that I have never been more certain than I am at this moment in history that we will be victorious in our struggle for justice. We still got a lot of work", "is the moment to turn up, not to turn down. Now is the time to say wait a minute we can get the prisons dismantled and defund these police and reimagine education and engage one another differently and boot out leaders who sold us out again and again. The reason they keep giving stuff up and saying okay fine we will give you a body camera or fire this officer because they know that the stakes are high", "and that we're so close to winning. It's just like when you make a lawsuit, right? When you about to win the million dollars they want to settle. Yeah. So don't settle. Don't settle justice is too close. This is Professor Aminah Aldean in Critical Talk had a wonderful 55 minutes with Dr. Mark Lamont Hill and we will have him back as we explore some things. And for those of you who didn't get a chance to see the video", "the video at the beginning, please go and watch it. Critical Talk is a production of Muslim Network TV. Please go on our website. What will keep us alive is your donations. Thank you, Dr. Hill. Thank You. Don't go nowhere." ]
amina_mccloud/Critical Talk with Prof_ Aminah Al-Deen Ph_D__ehpVoHWEK1I&pp=ygUVQW1pbmFoIE1jQ2xvdWQgIGlzbGFt_1742894439.opus	[ "Good afternoon. You are here with Professor Amin Al-Deen in Critical Talk, and I have the esteemed honor of having as my guest tonight Dr. Lamont Hill. Dr.", "and he was a political contributor for CNN. He's an award-winning journalist, and you can look him up on Huffington Post, and he's received numerous prestigious awards and has been named one of America's 100 most influential Black leaders. I would say leaders, but Black leaders too by Ebony Magazine. Dr. Hill is the Stephen Charles Professor", "and Solutions at Temple University in Philadelphia, PA. Prior to that he held positions at Columbia University and Morehouse College. He's trained as an anthropologist of education and he holds a PhD with distinction from the University of Pennsylvania. His research focuses on the intersections between cultural politics and educations", "And I want to say good evening. Take your mute off. Mute. Mutes. There we go. Sorry about that. Good evening. Salaam alaikum. Walaikum salaam. And I haven't seen you in a minute, but you're always up to something. One of the things I would like to do tonight, which is a little different than the show usually runs.", "runs, we usually launch into an interview. But this was so powerful that I'm going to ask my producer to put on a short video which I am going to let frame our conversation this evening. Thank you.", "on so you listen to us and you don't listen until you feel some of this pain. On Monday, May 25th, George Floyd was killed by Minneapolis police. He was unarmed and he wasn't resisting arrest. Ever since that moment the city has been up in arms there have been protests", "The most recent protests have been so intense that a target caught on fire, that things were destroyed. And the media and citizens are saying, why are these people rioting? Well, I'm going to tell you why. First of all, these are not riots. Riots are irrational. They're random. Theyre just brutal acts of violence with no rhyme or reason, with no purpose. These are rebellions. Rebellions are organized act of resistance against an unjust system.", "What's happening in Minneapolis is no different to what happened in Detroit in 1967, what happened In LA in 1992. What happened in Ferguson in 2014? What's happenin is people who have finally said we have had enough and we are going to do something about it. People say well why now because we're tired black death happens every day if black folk rebelled every time something happened that should not happen. We'd be rebelling all day", "all day. But we don't do that. But there comes a point where you've had enough. We're at a moment where we can't turn on the television, we can go to social media without seeing somebody who looks like us put down like a dog killed by the state, killed by random white citizens just because we're committing the crime of being black and outside. We are tired of it. We were tired of being one phone call away from a disgruntled white woman with an unleashed dog", "We're tired. We're tires and the problem is y'all don't listen until we do something. Martin Luther King said, The riot is the language of the unheard. Well these rebellions are the language on the unheard this system does not listen to black death. Black Death is ordinary. Black death is common. No other race is on the news or social media getting killed day after day after today without any warning only black folk so the reason why we have to do this is to get the nation's attention", "attention. And how do you get the nation's attention? By damaging their property and by making them feel as unsafe as we feel every single day. Now that's not to say we should go around killing people, that's out to say, we should just burn stuff up just to burn it down. But every once in a while, we have to make our voices heard. We have to our pain known. And sometimes that means stopping a cog in the wheel of capitalism. Sometimes that means shutting down a target. Sometimes", "feeling. That's the same outrage we feel by exploitative business. That is the same when a government opens up the country as soon as they realize there are only Blacks dying. The same vulnerability that y'all are feeling right now, we feel every day so you can understand enough is enough. We tried sitting in and chanting and singing and rapping and hashtagging and ran marathons until", "listen until you feel some of this pain. People are saying, well, you're destroying your own neighborhoods. Look how irrational these people are again. Stop framing black people as irrational. We're not destroying our own neighborhoods that target might be in the hood, but we don't own it. Those businesses might be", "we don't have a plan it's because y'all haven't listened to plan a or plan b or plan c or plan d so by the time we get to this stage this is all we have left so if you want there not to be rebellions if you don't want to see these cities on fire then listen to us when we tell you we're in pain listen to", "See how powerful that was? I don't know if you were even looking at yourself, but I am and I want to hold this book up. And I'm hoping let me see which way do I have to go that my producer gets it. This was written a few short years ago, but it is important because it begins a narrative", "a narrative that the video we just watched furthers down the line. And nobody was, Mark got, he starts off with The Invisible Man and he takes walks us through vulnerability and a special kind of condition that African-Americans find themselves in. So I'm gonna shut up and let you tell everybody about the book", "Oh, thank you. First of all, thank for inviting me. It's always an honor to be in your presence as a black scholar You are one of the kind of... You don't have to be nice to me just go ahead with the book I know if i got to my mama raised me right As no but seriously as a Black Scholar we all owe a debt to you and your work was path-breaking and courageous And even those of us who don't", "those of us who don't do work on African American Islam in particular, still learn from you how to navigate the academy. How to be a stellar scholar who can take their own path and reject those people and those ideas that undermine our humanity, undermine our intelligence, undermine ability to see black people as full human beings. I mean,", "all so many of us courage to do the same thing. Thank you. No, thank you. The book, Nobody I wrote, you know, I wrote Nobody sort of unexpectedly. It was at my house. I was here in Philadelphia and I was watching the news and then I was looking on social media and I saw that this boy had been killed in some town I had never heard of in Missouri right outside of St. Louis. And yeah, I ain't no Ferguson.", "Ferguson was, you know. This is 2014 and nobody knew who Ferguson was outside of that area. And I noticed on social media that he had been killed by a police officer but his body was still out there and activists kept tweeting about him. In the street! Right on Canfield in the street. It blew my mind. Something was different about this story. Two days later BET sent me out there to", "as a journalist to cover the story of Mike Brown and this boy who'd been killed. And when I got down there, I saw some things that shook me. First of all you could almost still smell death in the air. There was still stains of blood on the ground. People were still emotionally taken. In a lot of ways it was like the lynchings at the 20th century and the end of the 19th century where the death wasn't just about destroying that body. It was about sin. It Was about the spectacle of death. Yes. And what that meant for everybody watching it", "everybody watching it. Right? You know, so we saw I sat there and looked at that thing. And I remember standing out there in this black girl said to me, she said, Well, she looked at the space where Mike had been. As you say he was up there for four and a half hours. Yes. But half of that time, there was not even a sheet to cover his body. Right. You know? No medical establishment no nothing. And somebody said they left him out there like he belonged to nobody. Exactly.", "Exactly. And that shook me to my soul because it was like there's a way that we treated that body, like there was no parent who loved him, no family who cared about him. There was no state to protect him. No medical establishment attend to him and even before he got on the ground, there was not school system to invest in him.", "police officer for after getting stopped for jaywalking yeah but what does it mean for an entire system to render you uh unworthy of what we think you get in a society like this so i said i'm gonna tell the whole story of mike brown that's all i wanted to do and as i was watching and writing the story of Mike Brown I heard about Tamir Rice, I heard Eric Garner. We watched Freddie Gray die, we watched Sandra Bland die", "Ferguson. I got to tell a story from Ferguson, right? And it's funny because initially was going to be Ferguson to Baltimore but then I looked and said wait a minute but what about Flint you know state violence ain't just about police shooting us it's about that lead that's in the water right you know it's not where they dump nuclear waste it's You know all these other things and so I decided to tell the story that showed how what it means to be rendered nobody in America what it meant", "the spoils of democratic citizenship, what it means to be somebody who doesn't deserve investment and protection and safety. And what it finally means to live in a world where the government has privatized our concerns. The government is supposed to protect us even if you are hardcore concerned there's certain things that the government is suppose to do for us. What does it mean for us to move into that neoliberal moment where all that stuff gets privatized and profitized? Then the industries and spaces", "spaces that were given responsibility of us do what they're supposed to do. They making money, being efficient and privatized so if you have the water no longer managed by a government but managed by private agency and it doesn't care about people led in the water then you end up with people who die. So throughout the book I'm looking at... Before we go on because you know us in the academy speak a particular vocabulary. Yes. So I want to back us up", "back us up and what is neoliberalism? What do we mean when we say something comes from the government as opposed to being privatized because I don't think many of us really understand what's at stake in those notions. I think that's a great question you know,", "the market in other words we're saying that the way that it's free market fundamentalism it's the belief that that that the that the market that money the economics should drive all of our social decision making that means for example that the weight of fixed schools is not to invest more money in public schools let's take the public good and make it private let's make competition let's give out vouchers let's have school choice which really means a move toward privatization um", "You mean to tell me that? No. Well, I kind of know but I'm not sure I know anymore that parents especially black and brown parents ran to get those vouchers not knowing that they were being complicit in another scheme that was going to be to the detriment. This is ticking me off here. It's a fact.", "It's a fact. You write on the money, and unfortunately they always frame it in a way that makes you feel... Conservatives have a way of framing things so that it sounds like something you want when it's something that you don't want. Exactly. War on drugs. The war ain't against the drugs, it's against poor Black people who were using drugs or victims of the drug war. The War on Terror. Except the war isn't on terror, it is on our civil liberties. And when you have this idea of school choice, we get to choose but what are we choosing?", "choosing and what are the stakes? And so we have decided as a country that the private is better than the public. And part of how they do that in public, they make it sound like it's for black folk because they know if it's black folk ain't nobody going to want it. So there's public housing even though most even when we think about the house and we don't think of them subsidies in the suburbs. We think about Taylor Homes, Cabrini Green. We've got Richie Allen in Philadelphia. When we say public education,", "we don't think about the rural schools or the suburban schools, which are public. We think about those schools inside of an urban school district that are black and brown. When we say public options in healthcare, people thought, oh my God, there's suddenly all these people going to be... There's gonna be so many black and Brown people added to the hospital. And so they make public assistance, right? Even though most people on welfare are white female and young, they make you think that you're not giving money to Tiffany or Becky, you're giving it to TaQuinda or Talisha. And- Right. And So they make", "it's black. And so then the private interest becomes the way we deal with everything, and as I talk about in the book, it's not just school, it is the police departments, it s the military, you know, it' s the public defender's office. We privatize everything, when you do that, when make everything private, when talking about efficiency saving money cost cutting, when talked about austerity, government will spend less money and be more disciplined fiscally a lot of times what it means is we're not going to invest", "going to invest in the vulnerable we're going to take away the safety net but we ain't taking it away from everybody because we just saw 500 billion dollars go to wall street and corporations after coven 19 happened we keep through the cares that we keep watching the rich get socialism and or get free cap free market capitalism and it's not fair well i think you know", "because if you talk in the terms of neoliberalism this and that or the other what happens is the average one of us glazes over we don't have a clue as to what that means you know not only did a whole bunch of money almost half of it the money allotted go to corporations i just found out", "churches. And when I turned to ask folk, did Massage get any of that money? Everybody's looking at me. Well, um, did they had a right paper? I said, now you're going to ask questions so that none more asked of those groups that got $1 million apiece. Exactly. Why are you doing this to yourself when you should have gotten some of that belt? You had to close down Massage. You had staffed.", "You had security people. You still had bills. So why didn't you put, well? And I'm wondering... I realize some of it we're going to keep talking about what is done to us but I'm getting real tired of us shooting ourselves in the foot when we could at least shoot alongside the body instead of in the darn foot. I know that's right. We definitely got to organize and", "got to organize and struggle better but whoo we like they're making a hard force man it's uphill battle it is i want to nobody starts out with those names that rose up but you know many in our audience have never uh read the invisible man", "in there about how what they did to the invisible man the invisible means on everybody's list and then what do they do it becomes the black book not a classic but the black classic so we're diminishing and diminishing", "so that people can get a sense of a continuing narrative. For some immigrants who have never been exposed to any of this, they had some of those questions. Why are they rioting? You know, they just looting their body and then you come back in the video which is why I was intent on playing. Look, the store is in my community but I don't own the damn store.", "making black folks live up to them along with family members that say when they do this you do that and all of the you do involved calling the police and this time when he called the police something eye-opening and exceptionally again tragic happened but also in nobody i want", "me a social arbiter yeah yeah so both of those things could you say something about yeah i'll start with the cell phone thing first you know we we live in a world where there's just more room and access uh or space for everyday citizens to do what i call another project engaging new surveillances in other words the state's been surveilling us forever i mean they've been from flesh branding", "to keep track of us forever as black folk in America. But what cell phone technology has allowed, and almost everybody in America has a cell phone now, it's penetration rate is somewhere in the 90s, and smartphones are in the 80s. And for younger folks, people younger than me, I think 18-25, it is around 95% or 85-90%. So people have these phones, they have this technology now, through cellphones, social media, live streaming, people take photos of police, video", "police. They're able to videotape police misconduct, they're able hold the state accountable in a way that we simply could not before it was a rare occurrence. It was almost a it was like hitting the lottery to be able to catch uh the officers that beat Rodney King in 1991 on video tape right um people just walk around big video cameras but now we can catch this stuff more often and the importance of", "it takes away white people's ability to say, we just didn't know. And it also I think creates a more complicated conversation about black witness what it means for black folk to say look we've been telling this story forever and now we got evidence. It ain't foolproof but it does matter that we can tell those stories about ourselves on a day-to-day basis so we can narrate our own stories, our own violence.", "And all the corporate media outlets were saying that the police was holding their ground and telling us to go home, but we're not engaging in any violence. We were getting tear gassed while the media was reporting that. And if you've been tear gassing, you know what tear gas is. You don't have nothing else. So while the corporate medias are saying everything's fine, we're saying we're getting tear-gassed. 20 years ago, the corporate", "stream on Facebook, you know, we're Facebook live and we're doing all this stuff showing look no look at us on the ground right now. We are dying here. And so that cell phone technology is important because it doesn't change necessarily the hearts and minds of these folk but what it can also do is change the response. Ahmaud Arbery was killed and nobody did anything until the videotape came out. They already had", "So it wasn't like they didn't know. They didn't arrest those people because they saw the videotape, they arrested those people, because we saw the video tape. So that's also a key part of it as far as the other thing goes on you know as someone who does solidarity work with Palestinian communities both here and in Palestine um It was very interesting for me to see what it meant for George Floyd his death sequence to begin with a phone call from a store owned by a brown person", "Part of what solidarity means is we have to think about, and that's why I had the solidarity as a verb shirt on. Solidarity is not just an idea, it's an action and it's a practice. And part of what we have do is understand what it means to be black in America and that calling the police on a Black person is not the same as calling the place on a white person. Yeah? Right. We have to go to a break here. This is Critical Talk with Dr. Mark Lamont Hill.", "we're going to take a few and give you a chance to at least look at your bottle of water", "Mike Bagley. No, you can... This is a casual show and we made it that way because we know we're coming late and people sometimes they just say if I could have a cup of coffee, I'd have one right now. Right. I want to go back. What do I want? I got so many things to go", "coming to, I don't remember if it was the second or third Malcolm X Day. And I had the enormous opportunity to visit Uncle Bobby's. Could you just tell us a little bit about Uncle Bobby? What is happening? I saw online they had to get posted. It was closed temporarily but I want to know what's happening with Uncle Bobby and how that idea got started. Okay. Can I go now?", "Can I go now? Go. Okay, so Uncle Bobby's for me was the brainchild or it was like a life... It was a lifelong goal. You know, I grew up in Philadelphia. My father and his family is from Wilkes County, Georgia. My Father was born in 1928. His brother, my uncle Bobby was born", "they grew up in a Jim Crow South. They were second-class citizens, they went off to the army because it was the only access they had to any kind of chance to get social mobility after they left the military Uncle Bobby actually was in World War II and then came to Philadelphia my father followed him we eventually all made it to DC and in Philadelphia when we when they got there for uncle bobby he couldn't figure out why or he was troubled by the fact that", "He had fought and nearly died fighting for America around the world, and came back home and had to ride behind Nazi POWs on a train ride back home. His money was still counterfeit, still couldn't buy hamburgers, still could sit at a Horn and Harder, still can have his picture taken. My dad's class 11th grade class couldn't have its picture taken in front of Washington Monument but dogs could you know it was this kind", "of reality of an American apartheid system that they could sense. And so Uncle Bobby said, well I need to figure this thing out. Now Uncle Bobby didn't have you know in Georgia back then high school only went to 11th grade. They didn't a 12th grade so Uncle bobby went right to work with his 11th-grade education my dad eventually went away to college but uncle bobby kept reading and he read more than my dad read uncle bobbie read everything am i and so and he he read books he read magazines he read everything", "Bobby in Bessie's house in North Philadelphia, literally right across the street from where my office at Temple University is right now. They he would have books for me. He would have the copies of Ebony Jet Black Enterprise laid out on a table. I love it was like the blackest you know all the furniture covered in plastic. It was a black household. We never took the real furniture but but he gave me my first copy of E Franklin Frazier's Black Bourgeoisie.", "He presented me with a bunch of books, but also conversation on race. And it was Uncle Bobby's house that got me going to then black bookstores like Hakim's owned by Daud Hakim who was both in Atlanta and Philadelphia and part of the Western community with Imam Jamil. There was you know I started reading Ansar Law Books. I started Reading A Message To The Black Man Nation Of Islam Books.", "I could find. And books became my way of figuring out who I was and trying to get free. And so, I said that if I ever had the chance to open a bookstore, if I've ever had a chance to create that space for somebody else, I would do it. So when I got a little bit of money, I say the first thing I'm going to do is open a book store. What else can I call it but Uncle Bobby? Exactly. That's what we do at Uncle Bobby's. We have books, conversations, community events. We're deeply rooted in Black writers,", "writers, black arts, black radical traditions. And we're an inclusive community, we're a diverse community but at the core, the point of the store is to create a space for these kinds of ideas. I like that place and I liked it as almost in a little square with another building if I'm not mistaken that you all took over. Yeah. We had could you just a word or two?", "People's Sanctuary. The people sanctuary is an event space, formerly a church now it's an event that we use to have big book events and conversations. You came and blessed us at the Malcolm X symposium every year we do a Malcolm X radical symposium. We're trying to keep track of the radical tradition and not let Malcolm or Martin or Angela or June Jordan or Audre Lorde", "Audrey Lorde or Ida B. Wells Barnett become less radical, or less central to our freedom struggle than they were? We wanna keep the tradition going by telling them truth about these folk. Well, I think it's just awesome and it oughta get replicated everywhere. And I just can't say enough. I was so shocked to see it in person", "all walks in and out, you know. And then just meet some old friends, some new friends at the conference which I'm going to ask you about later but I want to turn a corner as usual and should have been expected by us those in power begin their program of usurpation of what has happened how do you", "interrogate that and begin to give or provide, or collaborate or whatever it is for us to stop the Black Lives Matter. I think the first thing we have to do is analyze honor and spotlight the roots of Black Lives matter. There's no Black Lives", "is not a liberal bourgeois multicultural movement, right? It's it's a movement rooted in a black radical imagination. Black Lives Matter is a commitment to affirming the humanity of all black people which itself is a radical act in a world that doesn't see us as full human beings even now but it's also about understanding the various ways that black people are vulnerable to state violence, to structural violence etc so it's", "killing us, it's about this broader thing. So we have to—we can never lose sight of that. We also can't lose sight the Black feminist roots of Black Lives Matter. There is no—you know, Black feminists and Black women more broadly have always kept us together and had the most ambitious freedom dreams. Black women didn't just dream to be free. They didn't dream to just like white women. They dreamed to create a world of international solidarity, a world that dismantled capitalism,", "to allow racism and patriarchy and other things to thrive. So for me, we got to hold on to that tradition otherwise Black Lives Matter will always be able to be usurped as you said by some liberal movement, by some democratic party movement. We have to be something bigger than that and smarter than that I think. Another thing we have to do is be clear about our demands once we know the tradition we come out of we have be clear what we're asking for in the streets of Minneapolis", "We've been calling for defunding the police. That's rooted in the work of Angela Davis and Ruth Gilmore and others who are calling to abolish police in prisons. We can't allow that to turn into a call for cops that dance with us on the street or more body cameras, or warmer and fuzzier prison cells. We have to keep in mind the radical imagination that says we can have a world without police and prison and punishment as the primary way of navigating the world. We", "to that stuff. And we have to resist these folk who are trying to take over the movement, these folks who will sell you out in a minute, these folk- Exactly.... who just want to make money off books, these people who just wanna get a political office, these poeple who just wonna make it to the award shows, these peoplo who just wanna become celebrities. We can't allow them to become the leaders of this movement. What makes BLM powerful is that it was started by Black women, that it", "radical commitment and an internationalist politics. For me, if we stay true to that, we'll be okay. If not, we're going to have some problems. Well, but we got a... Wait a minute. Let me get to my next question before I get to prior questions. I've heard many a time that... I don't think people really understand what systemic racism is, what institutionalized racism", "racism is comprised of. You know, I was in a conversation the other day and I found myself trying to explain that everything you say about black people could be true, it would be uncomfortable but it doesn't mean you can talk back. In the same way, I can say something about Jewish people, white people, Christians and it'd be true but it's not anti-Christian, it's", "to throw over and shut me down yeah right yeah when we say systemic racism many can't see it we feel it and live it as you said in the video if we got upset about all the microaggressions and everything else we'd be freaked out and last by five minutes right we did we do nothing but rebel it'd", "what we mean when we're talking about institutionalized racism, systemic racism. Yeah you know I like the way Ruth Gilmore talks about it a bit i would expand on it but her scholar Ruth Gilmour talks about this idea of a way of organizing in the world in a way that certain identities having a certain identity makes you vulnerable to premature death", "Oh, oh. Right? Get home. Right. Yeah yeah yeah yeah. You're getting your soul right so for me the fact that systemic racism, the evidence of systemic racism is the fact being black means I'm less likely to live, I'm more likely to die. I'm most likely to because I am racialized as black in this country we die more at birth, we don't live as long, black women die more giving involved", "involved in childbirth, three times their white counterparts. In terms of prosperity measures we work harder for less money, we pay more interest rates insurance, we're paying higher rent, we'll more likely get arrested charged convicted, we get longer sentences were more likely to be executed by the state. We're more likely have food insecurity or less likely to have stable housing. We get lower salaries even if we graduate from Harvard Yale and Princeton then we get less salaries than our white counterparts", "A white man with a felony conviction has a better chance of getting a job callback than a black man without one. I mean, any measure of what it means to be happy and prosperous in this country, we at the bottom. Any measure of social misery, we are at the top. And so for me systemic racism, it means that just by virtue of having this identity there are systems in place that make me more vulnerable to premature death that are outside the sphere of my immediate control.", "choice. I can't choose my way out of this system, right? I can' t behave my way. Out of it. I cant dress my way outta it. Can't talk my way and I can speak better English so that I don't die. That there are things that even if I act my best, even if our behavior my best even about show out that I'm still vulnerable to premature death. And that is what systemic racism is all about. Why is it because we're still perceived as property run amok?", "And I think the reason why we're still perceived that way is because we live in a system and a country that is built on racial capitalism. And so, you know, American capitalism... It's important to think about racism as an outgrowth of capitalism. That is to say that a lot of times people think that racism comes from like we create this thing called", "called racism and then we got race. No, the first thing we did was create racial categories. We decided that we were going to organize not us. You know, you know, the invention of race by Europeans allowed for racialized and racist systems to exist. Right. Race itself is the problem. The construction of race itself is a problem. Why is race so important to America, though? Because if I'm trying", "it is looking to extract value from human labor, human bodies, human existence. If we're trying to have a small sector of people who economically dominate the rest of us then race becomes an important category for capitalism to live out because now we can have a population that we decide are subhuman, that we decided are less valuable to society,", "system in order to justify both morally and strategically, politically the practice of slavery because they ain't human. And so if we can construct a racial other that then can be enslaved to build the American empire, that makes sense. And then once slavery ends now we're doing it in prisons. Now we're doin' it in all these other areas. Now were doing it through low wage work. The exploitation of black people hinges on the belief that black folk ain't", "folk and human hinges upon the construction of a racial system. And the construction on a racial systems hinges on the need to have a state that exploits and defends class at all costs. Okay, this is Critical Talk with Professor Aminah Odeen talking back with Mark Lamonnell. We're going to take a break for a minute or two and we'll be right back.", "I'm a little perturbed by and scared of at the same time what i see is happening another younger friend of mine wrote an article black as king and it was to be um uh attest so do we really know what we're doing", "what is it a video docu or whatever yeah visual album yeah okay and everybody's running after whatever dollars there are out there because now they're gonna become sensitive to racism and still they're going to still practice it but they're", "I've seen before. Others have been running but can't quite see, but everybody's running after a way to capitalize off of a precious devastating hard-wrenching murderous series of moments. Yeah you know whenever you have a tragedy like this there will be people who will resist, people who jump to action, but you will also have people who", "who will exploit the resistance by making money off of it. Corporate America has never found a crisis that it didn't love to exploit, you know? Black Lives Matter suddenly will become a hashtag and a T-shirt and before you know it, you now, it'll be unrecognizable. And that's just the way that symbols of resistance have always worked within, particularly within capitalist society, right? They find ways to... they co-opt the resistance, right. But then", "And then we also have to be wary of those people, because some of what I've just been talking about are systemic things. Institutions and corporations are structured to do that. People with liberal politics are inclined to look at a radical movement through their own liberal lens. I get that even if I disagree. But there's also some Negroes out there who are very intentional about presenting themselves as the leaders", "for their own benefit. You know, friends, when I'm talking to women you were having a debate with what's that? I almost heard her once and I wasn't sure I was hearing what I was here and I turned it off real quick so I didn't want to get infected. What is wrong with her? You know that that's a good question. Some people say she just has the world wrong right now. She had no point of view that she's been sort of converted by right wing thought", "Right-wing thought. Other people would say they have more cynical analysis and say that she knows what she's doing, that she know as a Black person she can attack Black movements and get paid from it. There are different schools but I don't like to speak to people's intentions or their heart. I just try to engage their ideas whether I think they're right or wrong is where I land. But I do think it's an important conversation to be had about what it means for Fort in this moment", "and attack Black Lives Matter to denounce George Floyd's, the protests in the name of George Floyd. To act as if police violence and other forms of state violence aren't legitimate, aren't really happening. We have to be honest about that and challenge those people. Well I'm gonna give you cause you're the professor here, I'm a student. Yeah right. Yeah well you know, that's true. I wanna know how we begin to strategize", "to keep them from squashing this or to make us feel so worthless that we don't continue? How do we begin that strategy? Because I know we can't do it in five seconds, which means I might have to wake you up and have you back on here again. But how do we began to strategize?", "One, I think we have to begin with the radical imagination. We gotta ask ourselves what's our freedom dream? What does the end look like? What is justice look like. Are you asking me to be Nina Simone huh? Really? We can use some Nina right now, you know? Yeah yeah. You know because that's part of the problem right? Is if I'm fighting and dreaming for to fix a prison and your fighting and dreamin' to destroy the prison this person's fighting and", "and somebody else is fighting to stop police from killing us, and somebody's else is trying to get rid of the police. Then we ain't on the same page even if we had the same protest. So we got to begin with articulating what are-what we actually trying to do here? Then from there I think we have to be mindful of the fact that sometimes having more people doesn't mean we have a stronger movement. You know, I'm not looking at-I'm not lookin' to have you know, a million people in this movement. I'd rather have 500 who have absolute faith", "and who are willing to do the work. And so for me, that commitment to having strong coalitions that are locally rooted right if we're going to hold on to this dream, this can't be an international it can be international movement but it has to be local organizing and mass action. King used to say when dogs bite us in Birmingham we bleed everywhere. That means and I'll tell you an example of this in Minnesota for the first time and part of it was because of COVID but when everything happened to George Floyd in Minnesota", "Don't come to Minnesota. We don't need a bunch of ambulance chasing Negroes with cameras coming to Minneapolis to do our movement. You know what we need here, unless you're a doctor, unless can do something to help us in this moment, keep your behind and your city and organize there. And that kind of local action, local movement building I think allows us to keep track of the real challenges, the real problems", "into a site of opportunism. So if we're organizing locally, where is the hub going to be? I like the idea of multiple hubs. You know, uh, I think in the past we've had, we've looked for messianic leadership. We look for one person. No, no, no. I don't want to mess in. No", "But the problem is people are saying what's going to be the center of our, of our own. Of our activists. How do I know? How do i do? I just call you and let you know in Philadelphia when I'm doing this Chicago And I think that's it. I think especially an age of social media we say we have our We connect with each other and so we have movements in Minneapolis and in Chicago and Philadelphia and when y'all have action you reach out To us when we have action we reach out to you and we have a need or", "whether it's money, whether it is strategy, whether its education. We connect with each other and we don't have because the problem is if we create a single hub. Right. And before you know, you go from hub to leader to save y'all and that kind of avoid that kind", "asked you to get on here, but I'm going to give you the last word. What do you want our audience to know? I just want them to know that freedom is closer than we think, that we can win this fight and that I have never been more certain than I am at this moment in history that we will be victorious in our struggle for justice. We still got a lot of work", "is the moment to turn up, not to turn down. Now is the time to say wait a minute we can get the prisons dismantled and defund these police and reimagine education and engage one another differently and boot out leaders who sold us out again and again. The reason they keep giving stuff up and saying okay fine we will give you a body camera or fire this officer because they know that the stakes are high", "and that we're so close to winning. It's just like when you make a lawsuit, right? When you about to win the million dollars they want to settle. Yeah. So don't settle. Don't settle justice is too close. This is Professor Aminah Aldean in Critical Talk had a wonderful 55 minutes with Dr. Mark Lamont Hill and we will have him back as we explore some things. And for those of you who didn't get a chance to see the video", "the video at the beginning, please go and watch it. Critical Talk is a production of Muslim Network TV. Please go on our website. What will keep us alive is your donations. Thank you, Dr. Hill. Thank" ]
amina_mccloud/Critical Talk with Prof_ Aminah Al-Deen Ph_D__iqFQjo1mDI0&pp=ygUVQW1pbmFoIE1jQ2xvdWQgIGlzbGFt_1742896058.opus	[ "Good afternoon. This is Critical Talk with Professor Amina Aldi, and I have the wonderful pleasure of continuing a conversation with two very well-known chaplains in universities. One is Dr. Amina Darwish, and she's the Muslim Life Coordinator at the Columbia University. She's Ernie Jazza.", "traditional Islamic studies certifications from Kalam Seminary in Dallas and the Critical Loyalty Seminary, Toronto. She earned a PhD in chemical engineering before switching careers to follow her true passion as she is passionate folks. She's worked at work as an adjunct faculty of the University of Cincinnati Claremont and Northern Kentucky University", "Hajra Sharif is the imam, say it right, imama and chaplain. I love this term. She holds a bachelor's degree in philosophy and economics from Wesleyan College, one of my favoritest places, and a master's in Islamic studies with both academic and traditional training.", "Muslim countries such as Jordan, Malaysia, Palestine, Turkey and Indonesia. Welcome ladies. Thank you for having us. I could have y'all on every night and my life would be just a joy. Likewise. We talked a little bit about chaplaincy and some things but I want to dig a little deeper", "to how what is the training in Muslim chaplaincy? Either one of you can jump in there. Sure so I actually worked for Boston Islamic Seminary, so I had like a little bit of a sneak peek behind the scenes of what the curriculum development is like they haven't launched yet but", "But basically they're an institution that hopes to offer a master's program as well, to serve, to develop religious leaders, to service the Muslim American community. And in my work as a Kukum writer I helped develop 80 course descriptions as well as three syllabuses for courses that range from Aqidah, Fiqh, Dazkiyah, Quran and Sunnah, pastoral care, counseling, leadership,", "sociology, history and religion courses etc. So it was quite a number of uh quite a variety of courses and I noticed um in these courses you can see a methodology so they offer religious sciences pastoral care skills building as well as secular courses", "manual in their course manual they explicitly state that their educational philosophy is focused on three things knowledge of Islamic texts, knowledge of contemporary context and skill building. And I just think that this methodology is extremely robust because one of the primary problems that the Muslim community has is not even being relevant to people's actual realities. And so um this focus on understanding contemporary context,", "understanding, you know counseling developing those skills I think it's crucial in developing a great Muslim chaplain as well as any Muslim religious leader and You know some of the questions that I've been asked as a chaplain, you they relate to marriage or relationships Or even you know can a student take an interest-bearing student loan now if if you don't have this understanding of context if chaplains aren't sort of trained to", "sort of trained to give importance to context. Someone might just tell the student, no you're not allowed to take an interest bearing loan but this is in American context there's not a lot of options for students to secure any type of loan and not having access to this loan could jeopardize their studies and the result of that is poverty. So having this understanding of context knowing", "certain rulings and knowing how to respond to actual people's questions is really important for a chaplain to do. And that's something that I really admire about Boston Islamic Seminary. There are a few other institutions out there like Islamic Seminar of America, Yasser Qadi, Ma'am Suleiman, and Tamar Gray are associated with those institutions. I haven't worked with them so I can't speak to their work but they do have a website and they're up-and-coming and so that's another option as well.", "Yes. I first want to apologize, my neighbors are having a concert so if you can hear the background music. We could join after the show is over. But I didn't personally graduate from the Hartford Seminary but the bulk of the chaplains that I've met especially within academic institutions a lot of them did graduate from", "how with producing these chaplains that could have conversations with the institutions. The seminaries that I attended, the Qalam Seminary is when it first started and still is a very traditional seminary they have now included other faculty that have also studied academically and traditionally. The Critical Loyalty Seminary does try to balance the traditional with the academic discussions because to Hajara's point when you're meeting with students some of them are like", "them are like, hey can I wipe over my socks? And the other student is what about a loan and it's just...and then someone that's really struggling with their iman in terms of how do i handle the discussion on evolution in my classes. How do we understand our Islamic history where I'm coming from a place of pride. Like I understand that there's a problem with the colonialist narrative,", "to have those conversations are really important on one side, but the other part of it that is also really important is trying to understand how do we fit within the institution? How do I converse? How Do I communicate with the university administration? How did we try to figure out solutions within an academic context so that we can say accommodate students who are fasting during Ramadan. So there's a lot- Let me, let me cause you're only talking about Muslim students. Universities have loads of students chaplains are supposed to serve everybody", "serve everybody. If your training is only about things Islam and you only talk to Muslim students, how are you doing the true role of a chaplain at a university? Yeah that's actually a great question. Luckily I um not luckily but i didn't actually go to Boston Islam Center or any of these seminars in", "But that is a great question. You do need to study worldviews of other religions so that you can have- So if you don't do this in your training, Ammon I'm sorry? I think the Hartford Seminary more than any of the other ones was better at doing that and I mean, I agree. A lot of it was just on the job or just my own interfaith work that gave me the language and the capacity to be able to talk about religion.", "that is really important also just being in terms of activism recognizing when people are having a discussion about religious freedom in America what do they actually mean and what is what is freedom of religion how do we have conversations with other religious groups so that we are maintaining that sense of actually protecting that ideal without having someone abuse it I think what was what I really appreciated about my experience at the University", "of both Muslim and Jewish students that walking into a space, I know I needed to represent both groups of like hey we need halal food and we need kosher food. And it was essentially presenting that same argument you're more likely to gain traction with the university if you are presenting as an interfaith discussion in the same way that is in a space where there would be more... If a space has Islamophobia or probably also has antisemitism probably also just unfortunately", "or Buddhism, or other religions that being in that space I need to know enough about hey no we need to make sure those students are also accommodated and I can be here even if i'm not part of your tradition to amplify your voice through the university. Let me dig on that a little bit more. I dug on it last time. I am not a proponent of people having special foods to go to college they go to", "that can be a slippery slope. If you have conservative Orthodox Jewish folk, then you got to separate the meat from the dairy and then if you have this over here, you gotto separate the this from the that and I can't have... The pan should never have cooked pork in it. That's very slippery slope It depends on the proportions of the students, I feel", "I feel when there's a large enough group of students, again more than 1,000 Muslim students on Columbia's campus at core. A lot of them are paying for meal plans and if you're expecting the students to live on campus to eat in the dining hall then it's part of your university's experience then it becomes also a part of the university's", "is bringing people together around food. And I felt like it was very impactful to some of the cultures. I mean, I taught at DePaul. I've taught at Harvard. I'm in different places. Muslims clumped together and between their scarves and their coffees warning people don't come over here. They don't mix. So I would say that being responsive to different food needs is actually good for business.", "That's actually why even restaurants are being accommodating to the needs of vegetarians. Sure, maybe we- And Rosa and I are out of business right now but go ahead. I'm just saying- I mean, I don't have the statistics. I am sure you know we can look into the numbers but clearly there is a benefit otherwise why would they do that? Muslims are part of the market so if they want Muslims", "they have to be accommodating. Maybe a Muslim will decide to go elsewhere if they don't have that option. Do you know how many cultures reside in the United States? And what would happen if colleges and universities... Muslims are a very tiny part of the United State. Tiny, teeny-tiny. Yep. And there are groups who are not as demanding as Muslims are or far larger. I mean,", "I mean, I don't actually even know if most universities and colleges give halal options. I think only at elite universities and they tend to have the demographics to support that. I'm just digging and waking you up. No but I appreciate it because I learned a lot from the Jewish students just if I didn't have a halal option I was going to eat kosher and I was gonna hang out with Jewish students because that was my food option. Well that is another thing that bothers me", "excuse me, at DePaul, our chaplain. He's now I think head of whatever university like whatever you call that but he has made an effort to break the cliques of Muslims up and force them by teaching courses in Islam in Chicago doing a lot of different things", "out of their bubbles and into interactions with other students because they've left to their druthers, they stay in their bubble. Honestly I think this is what everyone does not just Muslims white people do it too but because they're the majority where they're seen as a standard if you look at who are the friend groups of a lot of white people there's just", "Muslims who are targeted and honestly, you know if you are a minority you need that support system It's just like daily my progressions every day don't have people look claim Anything else beside being in your bubble If you're claiming to fight for social justice if you're Claiming to do all of these things and you're in a bubble where everybody looks like you then how the hell are you doing? All those things sure. That's definitely a trajectory we need but", "but development of self comes first before you can offer to others. If you don't even, if you are like- So going to the liberal arts school for the Muslim is not about getting a liberal education and meeting people from other places. It's finding oneself. It' everything. Okay. I think the balance of that is making... And I think I mentioned this last time when we were talking", "it was very intentionally trying to reach out to different Muslims in America are the most diverse ethnic group, most ethnically diverse. And they don't talk to each other but go ahead. And that was me trying to break that within the Muslim community itself of no we're gonna acknowledge that there's different cultures and we're going to celebrate them in a way that hopefully allows us to still celebrate our identities but also reach out", "we were, if without COVID, we would have had four nights that were specifically celebrating. We had last year, we did Senegalese food, Somali food and just soul food. And again, because we're in New York, we're really privileged to be able to do this. The students from the Black Student Organization, Muslim or not came because it was one of a few spaces to celebrate a black culture in a way that wasn't talking about something that was negative. It was just", "and we're just going to eat yummy food. Some Muslims are saying that the Muslims should celebrate themselves first. I mean, it's not about what's first and later but I'm just pointing out the reality. The reality is that Muslims are targets of the state under incredible pressure and surveillance. Some", "and Latino Muslims are not targeted. Native Americans- If your religion is being disparaged on the media, you are targeted. If there's so much- Black, brown, Native American, and white Muslims are now targeted for deportation or detention. Yeah, that's not what I was getting at. I was going to get a general climate of hate and anti Muslim bigotry. That's enough to break someone down.", "someone down. I lived in a Muslim country and I was astonished by the psychological well-being that I suddenly attained just from being surrounded by people who supported me, and if you have not lived abroad you have no idea the difference! I never in my entire life realized how damaged i felt living in the U.S., it's only when", "that. So, I mean, you know, Muslims are going through a lot. We should be sensitive to that but we do need to reach out to allies. We do need engage with the greater society and hopefully inshallah we can develop. Well, I think the difference is in that the Black, Brown, Native American and white have a multi-religious family. And they don't feel what you feel. And", "in some instances said when are you moving to me or feel good yeah if when you feel at home where you feel supported is outside of the united states the question often is when are", "blaming us for everything and scapegoating us? No. If I, you know... Well, that's a different story. But I think if I've lived overseas for extended periods of time, I have never felt so unwelcome. I've been stereotyped. The racism rolls off of people's tongues and down their sleeves. So the comfort you feel... No, no, no. Okay.", "don't so I also experience those things and I mean, I think you mentioned feeling at home But I didn't use this words that I don't feel at home. I'm just saying there was a difference psychologically Hmm. There's definitely a difference just because it's different doesn't mean it's perfect I mean of course I stopped before living in the United States. I still prefer living in I see if I'm an American but to build Sorry to be help try to build a cohesive American Muslim community", "other and their experiences are so vastly different. In a post 9-11 world more than half of our Muslim youth, I believe it was a care study that said they were bullied in school for being Muslim. So there's part of the healing of what about my Muslim identity and what about other identities because depending on how you present in American society you're still going to have a fundamentally different experience. And one common thread that brings all the Muslims together is their Muslimness", "their Muslimness and the part of trying to create that sense of cohesion, it becomes important as Muslims we're all going to for example go to Jummah or fast during Ramadan. Now how do I make that space now actually representative of all the segments of the Muslim community so that there's... And it's funny to me because my students someone would almost every Jumma, we have more than 200 people that come to our Jummah, almost every week someone will be like, I didn't like the khutbah this week. And I'm like well wait till next week,", "that's gonna talk about because we learn Islam within those contexts, we're expecting it to look a certain way. So if I say go to a khutbah and the Imam doesn't yell at me and tell me I'm horrible and I need to do better for one person that's like wait a minute I didn't learn anything this khutba. No no you're maybe you're learning something else or maybe you were learning about how someone else in our community is going to respond and I use that as a joke alhamdulillah", "Hopefully, how do we build a strong relationship with Allah? How do we built strong relationships with each other? But part of it is having a diversity of speakers so that you are representing people and saying this was my experience in these different Muslim spaces. And this is what it looks like. Wallahualam I don't know if I helped. Translate We have asked that we damp down the religious talk. So if you're going to use it please translate for our non-Muslim", "that this is your time to experience that, understand that and engage with it. And hopefully still gain something from that reminder, the weekly reminder. I'm looking at our comments coming from outside. I like for young people to hear from you too. I wonder if there's anything in the comment section because I like listening to women.", "But also, you know when I asked how many have ever heard one of the Chinese imams give the khutbah and nothing? How many have heard the ones from Australia or South Africa or oh I don't know Malaysia striking stirring khutba's", "well, we seem to want to have an ethnic only representation of Islam. I can count the African-American or Latino chaplains and universities who are well, well, very well qualified but they are not seen as representing Islam and are not brought in", "That is the definition of unfortunate. And I feel almost a betrayal to what the message of Islam is, of who we are as people in front of God and in front each other that it's our belief that makes... It's our righteousness that makes us valuable in the eyes of God not anything else.", "Having said that, culture is a collective human experience and appreciating someone's culture is about appreciating them as a human being. It's not about celebrating one over the other and it never should be. And it's important that we do have those conversations. One of the things that we did after... The current racial awakening that we are now experiencing and the tragic killing of George Floyd,", "we're having these conversations, one of the things that I tried to do since the end of Ramadan which was in mid-May. We've had exclusively Black speakers every single week and I only had one repeat. And again it was trying to show my students just how wide the range is. You're in New York right? Yes. You got Chinese imams. I mean you have the whole smorgasbord just to remind you of imams there.", "you know i mean here in chicago we have us there's a little section of chinatown where i took a class down because i wanted to show them the um the the islamic the chinese writing for uh what is this something impure something and pure and so that they could see which ones were the chinese muslim restaurants but i think i worry", "No, I don't really worry. I'm glad to see women in chaplaincy. I am so glad I could jump out of this seat if I was jumping anymore. And it's because many of us in this society are very used to women in leadership positions and we're very shocked with Muslim world throw women under the bus behind the bus", "but middle way the bus. And no matter how bright, how innovative, how creative and how learned they actually were when our history is full of women scholars who have actually been hidden. So I had a bunch of people, well not a bunch", "I guess, terminal degree at least before I can think about becoming a chaplain. Because see what you all do, you all have the largest to pick and choose your audience. Chaplains in prison and hospitals and corporations don't have that luxury. You know, if my father died, it doesn't matter what I am and I need to see a chaplin, I'm coming. Right? But", "Where do they go? What's the ending degree? You can't become a chaplain with a high school diploma, right? No. And a lot of them are the MDivs, the seminaries, the institutions like that. I mean from what I've seen you have to have a bachelor's degree and the standards vary depending on the institution. Some look for masters in Islamic study, religious studies", "religious studies, Islamic studies, whatever. And some require it. So I mean there's difference but education chaplains are different in the sense that they look at different standards. It's a more intellectual environment so they do want to see more education. I think for in hospital work and prisons they do need chaplaincy training but not necessarily like you know academic masters type of thing. Listening audience", "listening audience i hope y'all got that now i want to turn a little bit to women one of my loving subjects i won't call it favorite is loving um i am excited", "of stuff that gets rolled out when we talk about things Islamic. As if women can't read, can't memorize, can, can and half of the men ain't qualified to do much. It reminds me of the prophetic narration when the prophet said take half your knowledge from Aisha. That is sort of a call for equal representation in religious authority right? Take your authority also from woman.", "Almost as if I don't understand how come. I think there's an unfortunate, I'm seeing a lot of women leave traditional Islam because of that. They see the misogyny. It's not hard to point out. But what? Women raise men. Yes. And the most shocking one to me every time there's a men's only panel when it's about women's rights and I'm like you couldn't find", "And I'm like, you couldn't find a single woman. Like just don't have the battle. What women have got to do is jump up and say, oh who are you? Bye. So a lot of this is sustained by pre-modern fic. So we actually have a problem in terms of Islamic thought which is sort of the engine behind this misogyny.", "as they start realizing that some of this fiqh is not sensible, they'll start adapting fiqhh to something that is sensible to their context. Last time I was in Egypt and I was trying to get it translated and published by a place here, there is an Arabic-to-English spy volume or it's a bibliography, Women in Islam. Have you seen it, Amina? I have not.", "I have not, but I've heard of other ones. Yeah, and I mean it's like those books are thick. Yes. So it looks like they're not there, but women want to promote them too. Go ahead.", "institutions started to become devastated through economically and culturally in different ways. Female scholarship was normal. The oldest running university in the world is the one in Morocco, it's opened by a woman Fatima Al-Fahriya. It's been around for 12 centuries. Exactly but you know what? You all have gotten me so excited that I forgot to take my break. So now we're going", "minute and we'll be back to have some more exciting conversation. Sounds good.", "And we're back. I've got so much good stuff here. Let me see. Let's see.", "to what we were studying, Islam or chaplaincies. Were any of the professors black or brown? What do you mean by Brown? So I went to Malaysia and so there were Malay- Brown. Yeah. There are Malay professors. Yes, I did have a Black professor", "have a black professor. There were two in that program, I had one of them. I mean, I've been to two different programs in Malaysia so... Or any other female? Yeah, so there was the white Russian lady. There was...I left the other program but trying to remember. I think there was also a female well,", "And I know you all are going to change that, Amina.", "was acknowledging her and Allah subhanahu wa ta'ala revealing an ayah, God revealing verses to affirm her that say that... And unfortunately some of the English translations of this verse is in Surah Al-Ahzab if anyone wants to look it up. But it's saying, say that the Muslims when they translate it, they say, say the Muslim men and the Muslim women and the believing men andthe believing women. The way that it actually should be translated is say the Muslims collective and the muslim woman where it's highlighting them", "highlighting them, not just equating them to the men. And it was again about restoring a balance and when people ask about I feel like you get this a lot of who wants to marry the feminist woman that is objecting to everything after her husband Abu Salimah passed away she married the Prophet peace be upon him himself so the answer of who want's to marry a feminist woman? Prophet Muhammad and anyone following in his footsteps", "And again, but having said that how many people when we talk about these women only talk about them as a function of just something so small and I'm sure we've all done this where you've attended something and someone's like oh your marriage is deficient until you have children. I'm like excuse me do you understand who you insulted? You insulted Aisha! Like shh!", "Somebody, not your husband, talked to you about your womb? This was in a public gathering that someone said this. And they didn't have to take you away in chains? Oh, I definitely objected and I'm really grateful for being able to have studied because my objection", "of, in this verse it says that you here we are talking about the marriage of Aisha to the Prophet peace be upon him and they didn't have children. You don't get to insult their marriage. How does somebody who is not your husband get to talk about your womb period without being flattened like a pancake? It's about seeing women as unidimensional instead of multidimessional. If any of the Sahabi were women", "where women existed today, they would be rejected by the Muslim community. And they would tell the Muslims community that you know where the sun don't shine. Exactly! SubhanAllah. Like honestly, we do have to be... There is so much inspiration in our early sources but yes, the tradition also has been very positive to woman. Sheikh Akram Nedawee wrote a book about the female scholars who had this side", "who had this sad for something and so we did have you know a rich tradition of female scholars but we also have to be critical of that tradition there were you know there were aspects in that tradition where women you know were not seen as authoritative why aren't there any woman imams for example anyone they weren't teachers yeah and they were but", "And I'm saying Imam in terms of like the head of a madhhab, not a prayer leader. There were actually female prayer leaders in Islamic history but it was a minority. But even within the Madhahib and I can't speak to the other Madhub, within the Hanafi tradition It was Imam Abu Hanifa's daughter who is a scholar in her own right that codified the entire discussion on menstruation Like in what world do we think men hung out and said let's discuss menstruation? They didn't", "Right. But do women only have to talk about female issues? Exactly. They don't. I agree. I want to talk Islamic finance and so many other things. Yeah, and I was told in the Muslim world that by some people not by the programs that I attended but by Shaykh that this is not appropriate for woman and that the brain of a woman after she has children becomes like", "because like that of a child. Did you throw something at him or ask him where was his mama? That she could raise the fool like that? I was also sensitive to the fact that I was an American and so I didn't want to impose my culture. No, no, I want women from those cultures to stand up for themselves. I do have to position myself. Remember my positionality and not be like that meddling American who", "I am a paddling American. Of course, I can have critical conversations but I wouldn't throw something. I understand what you're saying. Before we came on air, Aminal had let me know that she had written an article for Muslim Matters, I think it is and I would like for Padra and I to listen", "to a synopsis and then join you in discussion I really appreciate that the discussion I appreciate hopefully it goes well so there's the chapter in the Quran called Surah Al-Araf and part of the discussion is about a group of people that really didn't commit like they were the people that were sleeping that said oh yeah this discussion", "the story of Prophet Moses, Musa peace be upon him and Pharaoh. And there's the people that on the day of judgment decided with Pharaoh when things don't go well for them. And then there's people that sided with prophet Musa and they are taken to heaven. And those are the people who are kind of just stuck there. On the Araf that didn't commit, they didn't come into righteousness. They weren't on the side of pharaohs. They're not like hey let's go oppress", "like this is not our fight. Silence is oppression. Silence IS oppression and I think it's really important to have that conversation, and part of the reason we were having that discussion within my own community is the group of about 25% I don't know exactly the studies of the American Muslim population that is Black that would've looked like a George Floyd that already understand what it's like to be-to", "Now the other 75%, it's your job to protect those who are vulnerable. It's your jobs to fight against systems of oppression, it is your job To stand on the side of Prophet Musa This is in our holy book. This is a prophet I can't come like if I want to meet Musa peace be upon him in heaven Like I want hang out with him. I have a list of questions about them crossing through the Red Sea. I just think it's fascinating", "I want to make sure that we end up on the right side. We can't look at discussions of righteousness and oppression and say, not my fight. It is your fight. What does it mean?", "you know, you're trying to be diplomatic and which is a good thing. But sometimes standing up for social justice means you will rock the boat. And sometimes you doing that will create disunity. Right? And the prophet created so much division in his community for standing up or justice. Sometimes we think unity is what is most important at what cost though. And so it's a tricky balance. Yes, unity matters but at what costs", "And as chaplains, there's always this tension between social justice and community cohesion. And there's no right and wrong way. I mean it's just something that you have to engage with case by case but I hope that we understand the narrative of social justice. That was very well said. I can see the dilemma, but how do we for those who want to what can we say", "to urge them on the side of Musa? What can we do to urge out a neutral where they recognize that silence is oppression? I honestly would urge to be on the site of the Prophet Muhammad. Yes, Musa is incredible and we should draw on his ideas but the Prophet was successful. He was", "He was a social reformer and revolutionary, and he achieved success. He knew how to mobilize human beings to create unity at the same time striving for social justice, to enact change by grassroots also at the state level if you had that power. I mean his example is so much more it resonates so much with our context. And of course the principles of social justice that Musa sort of enacted are also relevant but the prophet", "The Prophet was a community person, a humanitarian. Those things are so much proper. I think his story is so much more powerful and not to pit them against each other. We can use both but let's remember the Prophet. Peace be upon him. And the Prophet, peace be upon Him, the reason that we have those discussions in the Qur'an is so that we can learn from them. In my view, I don't think it's about rocking the boat. I don t think the boat is upside down. I don't think the boats functioning correctly. If it's just who gets to hold on on the outside of the boat then we're inherently saying", "There's some people in our community that are not welcome, that aren't included. And that's not okay. It was Imam Suhaib Sultan to his credit at Princeton. I really appreciate him. He's a good friend. May Allah give him complete shifa, like complete healing from his illness. That he was talking about this. He said there's a minimalist view and there's maximalist view where I'm gonna try to come up with what is the one thing that is the least controversial?", "And we'll only do that. But what it does is, it limits so much of the beauty and the discussion and the creativity. Instead let's try to do the opposite where it's like, let's present everything. And let's all have discussions to make sure our boat is big enough to carry everyone. That it is actually inclusive of everyone. And if I'm standing on principle, that's what made our tradition what it is. Prophet Muhammad peace be upon him in...", "person in teaching people and in dealing with their oppressions. He taught you right. But our prophet had his flaws. We're not going to Jesus Christ, our prophet where he did no wrong. He walked on water. He was perfect. He did this and that and the other because that is not the human being presented to us in the Quran. I think we have to continue to be careful", "careful to not join Christians and to elevating a prophet to God's like status. He wasn't always the kindest because he turns away a poor blind man while he's seeking some people who are wealthier. And it wasn't being the kindness. Right, but his example afterwards,", "It was narrated that he never behaved unkindly to that person. In fact, he went over the top to make it work. Did God write that? No, I said after the incident. No, but what I'm saying is we still have... Of course, of course, I agree with you. I didn't come to Islam with a perfect prophet who had no flaws, always corrected us. I came because the prophet was human.", "was human and I could see myself along a path. For those who wanna make our prophet perfect, that's fine but in the same way that Christians have done it over centuries to Jesus and he winds up being God, I would caution people to watch it. Right? I agree with making sure that we... To not ever forget the humanity of the Prophet peace be upon him. There isn't a very unfortunate understanding", "where we talk about him like he was wearing a cape and he was a superhero, he was Superman. He felt pain when he... To the point that Professor Amina just made that when God corrected him, he took the correction. And him being human is the reason. But I think that helps. I mean, I understand what Hajra was saying but I also think that have you read this book?", "book by Kamran Kasha, Mother of the Believers. It's very familiar. Let me tell you, if you haven't read it yet, I taught it like eight times but I liked it because all my non-Muslim students jumped on it. It was the first down to earth everyday story they had heard out of the mouth of a Muslim. All Muslims are perfect.", "or this is perfect, all the other's perfect. And then when Muslims get undressed they say oh well it was those over there not me. I agree with you and sometimes we lose the wisdom of the Prophet himself because we can't see when he was behaving like a human yeah and then we put them into like this absolute form rigid form that we have to follow to the letter instead of looking at what is", "ethical objective behind how he acted, he was acting within context and then realized those same ethics in our contemporary context. It enables growth and dynamism just because the prophet wore certain clothes or... Tell me about it. But it manifests in different ways in our community and I think that the celebrity Imam culture is just another manifestation of that", "the imam that is being held as does no wrong. And I think it's actually another form of idolatry, unfortunately. It is. You're frozen in time. You can slip on over. Our last question for the evening. I gave a talk and one of the things I tried to do was I centered the talk around looking at the prophets in the Quran and their challenges, et cetera, et", "But we have gone from everyday life to the throes and, oh my God, the chaos of pandemic. With the worst medical advice on the planet. Then we looked up and in the middle of that, we were trying to make sure we had supplies. The state cities closed down the Sajid.", "down the Sajjad. People went into a tradition frenzy. It's like, I'm so used to performing Islam. I don't know what to do if I can't perform Islam so somebody else can see me. Oh my God! Then we went into Ramadan. And it's oh my God, people really can't see me perform and do this and then we went from there pandemic is still happening to oh my god they're going to close Hajj.", "Talk, speak to it. I mean luckily they did close Hajj and a lot of mosques so they did comply but more recently also there's been mosque that are reopening and because of these social distancing rules some of them have decided to ban Muslim women from attending the prayers and they use the logic that the men you know", "therefore the woman's right is secondary, which is flawed. I'm actually writing a paper. To sue them. Well, they were stopped by lawyers but I'm also writing a newspaper on the legal logic behind this sort of like false thinking and just trying to show that Muslim women first of all in the Quran it obligates all those who have faith to Friday prayer", "the hadith is contextual when it says Muslim women, you don't need to perform the prayer Friday prayer in congregation. That's contextual. It groups them with the sick and the traveler and these other people disabled people. Women back there with the infirm. Why would what? Why would you put women with the six? No, no, no because their context didn't allow them to perform a weekly public", "public work, right? If your society is functions where women are in the house most of the time or near their houses then it's just so difficult to go to the private part. My wonderful sister. What I'm saying is that it's based on context. Women can decide for themselves what is best", "what is best for them. And based on that, the obligation holds. So if you are capable of going to the mosque and making the Fajr prayer, it's obligatory on you. And I think to your point, it gave women the choice. It almost on some level, it trusted them for their own spiritual well-being to make that decision for themselves. And the discussion... And I don't think I've ever started a fight this big on my Facebook page before. But that was again about this thing", "about this thing where people were saying, oh it's not obligatory on women. It never was and still Prophet Muhammad peace be upon him told us you can't ban the female slaves of Allah from the house of Allah I still have a right to that You don't want to tell me I'll set this up in another conversation because I don't read it that way Never read it That way would not I'd be Buddhist if I had read it", "a congregational prayer be obligatory on me unless there was an exception. And this is again... I'm saying it is, but that there's an exception for circumstance. So the Hadith is circumstantial. The general is... Well, I don't follow Hadith, but what I'm", "women do not if they read it that way, they'd be Buddhist or something else. Okay, so my question to you is, Do you think all the sahabi went and perform a Friday prayer? All the whole the sahabit? Oh, I don't know. That was so that's not even in my sphere thinking and I don' care. Right So what I'm saying is that that no, it's just like telling a woman she can't pray if she's on her menstrual cycle was supposed", "suppose she dies and she's on a minstrel because somebody said she can't pray. She's supposed to die without prayer? So how I view it is that it creates flexibility. No, I'm leaving it open to you. I'm just saying since this is a multicultural conversation, this culture says no to that. Which culture? The mostly American African", "and brown culture say no to that. So it's no to... The Quran says what it says. I think if you're menstruating... I think the discussion on menstruation, when I'm menstruating my body is physically worshipping God just in a different way. Immigrant understandings have so harmed the American African Black", "Black, white Native American community that there has to be an understanding of what's cultural understanding because even Arabs read the Arabic with a cultural understanding. Right? Yeah exactly and the Hadith should be seen as contextual which is what I was trying to get at No I'm saying for you they may be No contextual in the sense that it is one cultural", "one cultural realization of that. But we can still see that as an option because many South Asians, you know, they don't go to Friday prayer because I mean, that's a whole nother. Ladies, it has been as you and I'm going to hound you all because you're the only two Muslim. No, I know three Muslims. No four female Muslim chaplains. The audience deserves to hear you.", "you. I will keep arguing with you because you're the only ones I know and I'm having a ball and it'll move my day, but you all have been wonderful. Thank you again. Please say that you will come back if the producer says you are no. And you won't say I'm tired of Amina. I've had enough. But no, because Never get tired of you, Professor. For the young women to see skilled", "skilled, learned women who are articulate. Just go after it. This has been a critical talk with Professor Aminah Aldean and I hope to see you tomorrow night. Don't go nowhere." ]
amina_mccloud/Critical Talk with Prof_ Aminah Al-Deen Ph_D__IXVu4Ka1Q6M&pp=ygUVQW1pbmFoIE1jQ2xvdWQgIGlzbGFt_1742897942.opus	[ "This is Critical Talk with Professor Aminah Aldean and I have the honor of having with me this evening Dawoud Wali. Surprise, surprise! Dawoud has studied across the way within the disciplines of Arabic", "of Arabic grammar and morphology, foundations of Islamic jurisprudence and sciences of the exegesis of the Quran. And he has previously served as the Imam at Masjid Wali Muhammad in Detroit and the Basel American Islamic Center in Hampshire. I can't pronounce that. I know where it is. Michigan.", "He's the author of the book Towards Sacred Activism, co-author of the books Centering Black Narratives, Black Muslim Nobles Among the Early Pious Muslims and Centering black narrative. Blackness in Africa and author of essays in the 2012 book All American 45 American men", "American men on being Muslim, as well as the 2014 book Quran in Conversation. And I'm going to ask him when we take a break if he could grab those books because I want to put them up. But right now I'm", "to talk with you about because you do so many wonderful things. But I kind of want to take you between the two worlds in which you function and I'm calling care a world, uh, and I am calling lamp post a world. And the two meet and then they diverge and then meet and they diverged and what better person to have here explaining all that? One", "things is I read the care national alerts daily and Islamophobia has gone down a rung or two although its instances creep up rungs and rungs. So at first, I want you to tell me how are you all handling that? Has the narrative changed because when", "say, I condemn, I pretty soon nobody's listening. So have you changed? But some of the stuff that's happening is horrible. Talk to me. Well first of all, assalamu alaikum and thank you very much for having me on and it's my pleasure and my honor to be on your show and you as a prolific academic", "that really groundbreaking form that you helped organize years ago where you brought together academics, religious scholars and community activists. Where we had that two day discussion in Chicago. We need to do that again. We really need to get it over stream yard or over Zoom. But in this particular climate things have changed", "and they have changed in the last four years for the better, in some ways than for the worst. And so right. So I like to start off with some of the positives. One of those things is that the Muslim community in general is not treated as a third rail politically speaking from many in the Democratic Party or people who label them", "or people who label themselves as progressives. And we are no longer the whipping board in corporate media or mainstream media, as we were prior to the election of Donald J Trump. That form anti-Muslim bigotry or Islamophobia has actually gone down and decreased from my vantage point.", "let's go back to 2008 even. I remember when President Barack Hussein Obama was running for president and he was being labeled as a undercover Muslim or a Muslim in hiding, right? And dealing with Muslims was like basically dealing with... We were like a radioactive community. Even the president himself at", "to, well you know his father is a Kenyan Muslim or and he grew up in Indonesia. He's a secret Muslim. His answer overwhelmingly was, well I'm not a Muslim, I'm a Christian instead of being like what even if I wasn't Muslim so what? Right though but now we fast forward to where we're at right now and those types of indictments of Muslims getting involved", "American way of life and creeping Sharia, even with Ilhan Omar as much as she gets attacked these days or Rashida Tlaib that's in my backyard here in Detroit. Even they aren't subjected to many of the things that were said just going back in 2008. So these are kind of like... And people in the Democratic Party like Nancy Pelosi will even get up and even support an endorsed Congresswoman Tlaibe. So there have been some more political space for Muslims in this regard. However I would say", "I would say that some things have gotten worse. And one of those things has gotten worse is that we have someone in the White House who is, let's just say what it is, he's a white nationalist. When he first came into the White house and his executive order was to have the Muslim travel ban on those Muslim countries which has gone into three different iterations,", "which of course, you know the majority practice religion on the African continent. Not just North Africa but Sub-Saharan Africa is a religion of Islam, is Muslims and I've spent time with the scholars in Mali as well as in Senegal. So some of this outward xenophobia and outward bigotry that even made its way into executive orders", "has actually exasperated and gotten worse than from previous years. So we have the compounding of bad policies that started with the Patriot Act, and the undoing of the FISA Court through the NSA, and then other sorts of policies like such as CVE that start under the Obama administration. Now we have compounded on top- Oh wait a minute, can you go back and explain what CVE is? I mean, I know but I don't know", "but I don't know that everybody in the audience does. Okay, thank you. It's a countering violent extremism program that was patterned off of a program called Prevent in the UK that basically treated the Muslim community as a suspect community that would need some sort of special intervention to counter radicalism or counter violent extremist which then", "which then basically put Muslims even more so under the microscope of being national security threats. And, of course, we know this was a failed analysis given historically in the United States of America, the highest percentage of people who have committed violent extremism and mass shootings happen to be white males who profess", "Historically, the biggest, the most prolific group of terrorists in the United States of America has been the Ku Klux Klan. Right? So that's the flaw of CVE. But now we have some of these other policies and some of this rhetoric that has come from Mr. Trump.", "individual acts of workplace bigotry. These things have actually gotten worse in the last four years. These sorts of things have gotten worse. Well, I think the reason I wanted to start with care was, you know, in the African-American community and maybe in the Black community in general, there's been a kind of, oh, they're talking about them, not me. And", "And oh, that these acts are happening to them and they're not banning me. They're banning them. And it's not that I don't have to pay attention but I don' t have to be really worried. And I don''t want the things that are important about those that seek to erase the presence of Islam because I do read the Middle East forum unfortunately for me", "in there uh it's just it's a tirade it is a tirate every day against well the brotherhood is here and care is up front for the brother hood and i'm saying do you even really know who the brother hud is and which brotherhood are you talking about you know i mean it's an ongoing", "and say, what is your problem? Don't you have anything else to talk about? Of course he didn't answer me but he does know me because he tried to get me fired a couple of times. They have not let up which means we cannot let up. I was looking over what has changed about the language", "Because language, as you and I both know, is extremely important. You can't – you can just say I condemn, I condemn but what else? Well, I think that if anyone would look at CARES press releases from the national level, I never got into it here in Michigan much of the condemnation game because it's kind of not – first", "for certain acts of violence that go overseas in which Muslims are the majority of the victims of that violence, right? But also it plays into this black bad frame where we actually defecto or connecting ourselves or taking some sort of responsibility or onus as if we have control of what goes on over there. Which we can't even fast a month of Ramadan on the same day much less control with someone does", "If someone dies over in Lebanon, right? You don't have any control over that. Right. But what you'll see from Care National is that there has been basically little to no condemnation of things that have gone on overseas or abroad and simply because again we don't feel the need", "for what people are doing overseas that has nothing to do with our daily lives here, of what we have control over as American Muslims. So yeah, we can pray for peace and some of us do have family members in certain countries such as Somalia where there's been issues about extremism and the terrorist group Shabab that's there but it is to say that", "don't necessarily feel the need that we just have to condemn, condemn, if anything. We as citizens of the United States of America and you'll see that CARES in this a lot more, we condemn the state sponsored violence that takes place against citizens and legal residents in this country. Right. Meaning that the violence that ISIS committed, the violence at the FBI is committed such as when Imam al-Khamed was a victim of homicide by the FBI", "the FBI, the violence that's taken place against people such as George Floyd and Breonna Taylor who's the police no arrests have been made in that case yet. Isn't that something? Huh? I said no arrest yet! No, no arrest yes or the type of violence and public policy that would lead to America having", "than any other country in the world, including Supermax and 23-hour lockdown, which Amnesty International and other international bodies, including the UN has said that the United States prison system is committing human rights violations against its own citizens. So that's the type of violence that... That's the types of things that we're more in the business of condemning these days than something that's going on over halfway across the world that we have no control over.", "over well i think that that is laudable and i'm hoping that people are following both the local chapters and looking at the language because there's been a switch and i don't know if you weren't uh following you know that you notice some a switch in how things are handled", "political because i want to dig down in your books which one you want he's having to have them near you uh hold on one second okay wait a minute oh let us go for the break hey one minute break great", "We are back and I am determined that my guests who are writing in the midst of all of the other things that they do get a plug here on Muslim Network TV. So which book do you want to start with first? Well, we'll start off first", "We'll start off first with the book that I co-authored with Ahmed Mubarak. Also, yes it's right here is called Centering Black Narrative, black Muslim nobles among their early pious Muslims. Where can we get that book? Can we get it on Amazon? Yes ma'am you can get it amazon.com or also Mecca books and what that book is about is", "is we tried to historically highlight some of the righteous Muslims who would phenotypically be seen as Black that came from the first two generations of Muslims. And in this book, we did not write about Bilal because with many... I mean obviously many Muslims are familiar with Bilal but we also felt that Bilal", "is tokenized sometimes. So like when we talk about issues or race, or blackness being not respected, or even a race within the narrative of the Muslim community, we both had shared experience where they say well what about Bilal? Or I love Bilal! Or things like that right so we didn't write about Bilau in the first volume of centering Black narrative, Black Muslim nobles among their early pious Muslims but", "but that was the impetus behind writing that. And then we wrote a volume two called Centering Black Narrative, Ahlubait, Blackness in Africa, which talks about some of the descendants of the Prophet Muhammad peace be upon him, including those who had African mothers because a number of them had African", "phenotypically black or would be seen as Black Arabs given that Arab is not a race. It is normally linked to one's paternal lineage, as well as the cultural tie and normally some sort of connection to the Arabic language. So just there are Arabs with blue eyes", "and green eyes of light color skin in Syria. Then there are Black Arabs in Sudan and Mauritania, right? So we wanted to write a book about that. Then the third book that came out about... Now I'm saying you all have been having fun. Go ahead. Yeah. And then this book which Imam Zaid Shaker wrote the foreword for instead that Alina Safi wrote a quick introduction is called Towards Sacred Activism", "Activism. And this book is kind of like a guidebook for a class that I developed as like a type of primer about how some ideas I had about spiritually based activism, about how to weave in Islamic spirituality and some of our theology in terms of social justice activism. So those are the three that I've written.", "years with the publisher in the UK right now. And it will be entitled Blackness and Islam. In this particular book, we'll be dealing with some of the weak or fabricated hadiths that some orientalists use to critique Islam or say that Islam is anti-Black", "that were made by some scholars of the medieval time period, that were really... I can't even use a word. Not nice, racist, right? So is Islam and the Quran racism free? Of course, but of course Muslim scholars and Muslim civilizations have not always been racism-free", "racism free. As a matter of fact, that's far from the case in certain time periods in Islamic civilization when there was a lot of ethnic chauvinism in certain periods of our history. So that's what the upcoming book will be about. It should be out by late October, early November, God willing. Oh, so you're getting a lot asleep, huh? Just writing and writing and", "had already started writing this book and you know I had a time period or timeframe that I was going to try to have it submitted for the first round of edits by December but this was the, I guess the hidden blessing of being on lockdown during COVID-19. I had nowhere to go, I had no where to travel. Yeah I would normally", "that time that I would normally have for traveling or going to different places, I just hunkered down and just did more writing since I couldn't go anywhere. Oh, I'm loving it. So all of these books, the ones not the one you're working on now are available to our audience on Amazon or Mecca? Yes. They're on amazon.com. Let me encourage", "please pick up the book. Just like you were going to pick up Donald Trump's nieces mess, pick up a book. It is important that we build the library from among us for us increases in knowledge or, you know, that's, that' Now then I've done that. I want to make a pivot back and go to lampposts", "I know and have supported, but I want you to tell the audience about Lampost's vision and its mission. Okay well I am a member of a board member of Lamp Post Educational Initiative that organization started by Dr Abdullah bin Hamid Ali who teaches Islamic law at", "law at Zaytuna College. He grew up in Philadelphia and then he went on to Morocco where he got the meat and potatoes of his Islamic studies background, and also brother Khalil Musin who's from Philadelphia they were", "of LAMP Post Educational Initiative, which is a platform for two things. One the platform is to try to get out scholarly information and scholarly discourse that's coming from some may be uncomfortable with this language but from an indigenous perspective, indigenous Muslim perspective number one. And then also too, to try", "even if they have differing opinions or differing views, but there can be venues that are set up or convenes set up so that we can disagree. But at least we should be agreeable or have some sort of cordiality and be cordial in how we disagree. In which it was supposed to have a third one in October. It wasn't able", "There was a Black American Muslim conference. And you know something, and I have to say this because lampposts receive a lot of blowback about, oh, well, there's no race in Islam or why are you having this Black Muslim conference? This is nationalism. But see, when the Syrians have their conference, no one said that's nationalism.", "nationalism or when the palestinians have american muslims for palestine to all those syria is islamic palestina's islami kashmir is islamiq and we want to talk about stuff that affects black folks in our lineage and how we come from revert or convert backgrounds some of the particular issues that we deal with such as having family members who aren't muslim", "percentages of our population being returning citizens, I mean people who embrace Islam while they're in corrections and how to re-acclimate people in society. Well those aren't Islamic enough for some people that's being... As a matter of fact we got called racist for having the Black American Muslim Conference.", "or who the other person was. I mean, but they were holding it. Oh my God, you're racist and how are you gonna have a black anything? We just like white folks are not going to permit you to do that. It's basically what it is, basically the attitude. You know, there has to be certain gatekeepers about what we can do and what we cannot do, but we went ahead with it", "We haven't finished putting it together, but kind of like what ISNA is trying to have an online type of conference or online seminar where we have a similar idea that although we cannot have the convening in Atlanta in October as we were planning during the COVID-19 cases spiking again down Georgia,", "you know, debate and discuss some issues. And again, we're trying to model some differences of opinion but at least, you know at least we're starting off from our tradition. And I also have to say this too one thing that many people don't understand about lampposts board members on lamppos ourselves have different opinions about different things. We don't agree about everything as far as FIC or everything relating", "everything relating to politics. We all don't follow the Maliki school of thought and we have different views on certain things that relates to systemic racism and things like that. However, we do believe that we can provide a platform and have these discussions in the lens of our tradition and spirituality right? And I think that's part of what is missing in American society today.", "We have too much cancel culture. And some of this, unfortunately, has crept into the Muslim community that if someone disagrees with something that I really believe in, then somehow they're like my enemy or my adversary and I'm not supposed to like them. Well, you know what? We can disagree on something and then we can sit down and have some tea afterwards and chuckle and still love each other. And that's how it should be. Well I think, you", "is so needed um because you're right it took me a minute to catch up with what cancel culture meant and then i got it my granddaughter helped me out i got in and said oh my goodness that's the crap people have been doing forever uh you don't agree with me you don t exist okay and so now it s got a name and i got", "post tries to put out there for people to take advantage of well some of those have been a series of classes that primarily been uh done and led by uh abdullah ali who of course is the leader and he's taught most of the classes um i believe he's going to have one about his uh his most recent book um the title verbatim is slipping my mind right now but it's about", "It's about black people in the Arab Muslim consciousness, which this was what he based his dissertation off of. So having classes about fiqh or Islamic jurisprudence about certain things that relates to creed. He just also wrote something", "be controversial, but he was articulating something about his political views and as it relates to the current political situation right now with Donald Trump and Joe Biden. And basically challenging the notion that just because Trump is vulgar", "we should run and throw ourselves in the laps of white liberals and Biden. Exactly right, but he basically is challenging that maybe we analyze this thing and you know we make some calculated decisions about what we need to do but that we shouldn't give ourselves totally over to the agenda of the progressive left just because Trump", "have been so vitriolic, right? And I think that's something for us that deserves at least a read and some pondering and evaluation. And I know that Usted Abdullah, Dr. Abdullah he doesn't mind people writing refutations, right. So if you read it and want to refute it then by all means refute but we should at least try the deal starting from a place of facts and not feelings.", "feelings. Don't be sheep. The shepherd flicks his whip and you all go running this way, flicks the other way and you run that way. Be discerning. One of the works that Ustad Abdullah dealt with as far as translating is a return to purity and greed which is a good translation. He has done some", "done some other translations. So these books can be gotten on LAPT Post's website, and one of the good things about these translations that are being done by these old texts or these classic texts from American scholars in not to sound nationalistic but African Americans in particular is that it's translated", "by Americans whose English is their first language. Because I know back in the day, I remember reading this translation of a book of Imam Ghazali back like in the late 80s or early 90s. It was translated by somebody in India or Pakistan but it was so awkward I was getting a headache trying to understand what is he actually writing?", "Right. So now you can get some of these works or some of things done with a clear translation with someone, or people who understand, you know, we have our idiom and understand how we process things. And that's very important. It is critical because people have been left out. They want to improve their knowledge base but they're not going to read South Asian English. That's right.", "you know to get there and the thou and those than these and whatever um together but i think um lamppost has you know in many communities been kind of obscured uh which is why I'm trying to say something about it today because they were having something at some point kind of a fireside chat do you remember what I'm talking about", "something humor um and people would come into a fixed place to have conversations you said a fireside chat is this this something uh maybe two years ago okay i can't remember what you're talking about top of my head it was advertised and i kept trying", "Please go get online do something and people were still asking me. What was lamppost? Oh, I figured that I would use a little bit of this to Say what it is your board member you can certainly say what it ends this effort Muslim Network TV will only be as strong as all of us make it and", "critical talk. I'm trying to get to everybody I know and don't know, to bring issues where Muslims that concern us but also issues about which we have something to say. So having said that, I'm going to take another minute break. This is Critical Talk with Professor Aminah Aldoon.", "I know this was not in the questions that I sent you, but I'm also renowned for popping stuff up. I am so intrigued. First of all, as soon as I get off this show, I'm going and order these books", "books and get my kids to order them because it's so very important. And I think what we might do in the future, if you're willing is to have a book talk where there are let's just really after we've read them, talk about them because they're important. They're as important", "however they are, deems important. So if you're willing I'm more than happy because I'm nosy and I want to see what's in the book but as we sit and we're not at the end what the media has done is it has quieted any news of protests. It has functioned on like you were talking about earlier an emotional turn defund the police", "on the police. Many of us, myself included, didn't know where the police got all their money from. Now we're finding out where the place get all their mone that they have this immunity clause and I'm saying oh really in Chicago millions of dollars are spent on bad police cases you know giving money to families where", "looking with the wrong address and all of this stuff. And but defund the police, I think actually meant let us use some of the money that we put into the police for social services and mental health issues. But defunding the police became a strategy, a get back at them strategy. You know,", "to change the narrative. We're going to keep it there because we can get people riled up like the knuckles they have on their motorbikes. Your thoughts? Well, I think that and this is like hindsight 2020 but that language defund the police maybe didn't accurately convey what many people were really saying", "saying or even abolished the police which is even more controversial language about not defunding that there are no police but certain problematic programs of the police and of course it has been used. And President Trump was using it right now in TV commercials that we see where someone picks up the phone say oh I'm sorry the police have been defunded then you won't have anyone coming for next two days and things like", "Most Americans don't know that police departments in many of our major cities are paying a foreign military to train the police departments on so-called riot control or crowd control. Right? Israel has made a fortune. Yeah, they're making a fortune and even", "that supplies the Israeli military with tear gas to shoot on Palestinian civilians is the same company that makes tear gas, that goes to police departments that tear gas people in Portland and Minneapolis and Ferguson and Detroit, Michigan. So a lot of people don't know this also the issue", "are the police unions. Like, police don't need to be unionized like how auto workers, like no one would think that the U.S. Navy or Army would need to have a union. But our police departments now that are militarized don't deserve to have this sort of shield that then even if they get in some sort of trouble,", "union is there to have them keep their job, even if they have three, four, five, six weeks of police brutality. And then they don't pay any money. You know, the late Dick Gregory had a really good idea about this. Dick Gregory said that bad behavior, there has to be some sort of not incentivizing, but", "these police officers who do what they do. So he said that if legislation could be tied in, that their pensions would be taken away and would be used for these wrongful claims of police brutality, that would make them act more responsible because even police that maybe will get let go from a police department, like for instance, Officer Coons,", "beat down Rodney King. Well, he still was entitled to get his police pension, right? So Dick Gregory had this very... Some say it was a radical idea. I think it was great radical idea that there needs to be consequences. So take their pensions and instead of the taxpayers paying twice,", "as well as paying all these settlements, take it away from the funds of this pension. Take it away my husband did a little bit of research and what he found out was that many police in small and large areas urban areas and small rural areas are working members of the KKK.", "And so, you know, to expect them to act differently. I mean like the man with his knee on George Floyd's neck was posing. People took that picture and had it blown up and put on walls in KKK lodges.", "you just said about dick gregory he and i went to the same high school by the way okay um i think that's um one of the things that is important is we begin to lay out for all of us all of the", "of the KKK. We know that unions with giving them immunity forces citizens to pay twice if they ever get brought up on a charge at all and we know therefore like you said at the top of the show nobody has been charged for Breonna Taylor", "forward to let this moment slip away. So in the last few minutes, let's talk about how we can not let the moment slipaway. What do we need to do? Well I think there is something as Muslims see this internal work so there's always internal and external. I believe you also have an internal game plan and external game plan.", "a lot of the issues that we have in our community, that we need to improve upon is political education. Right? It's political education and I think this is some of the deficit that we've had in our communities as far as the history of policing in America, the history actually how America was structured into an overt racial hierarchy and then de facto racial hierarchies", "hierarchies and then how these different, how these hierarchies have there's residue in how they can continue to play themselves out including in policing, including the issue of mass incarceration. I think a lot of it has to do with education. And before I get to second point, I just want to highlight this. I was on a call with a number of organizers, civil rights organizers in the Muslim community.", "almost all of them Arab Americans and South Asians. Relaying to the issues that we're talking about right now, a number of them said well you know this is we are changes the system was broken the system is broken I heard him say system's broken about three or four times I said hold up a second I said the systems not broken it's operating exactly", "Right. But that just shows a deficiency in understanding history and how this country was established. So we have to educate ourselves because if we don't have the proper facts to move forward, we can't do the proper organizing to help unify with other people for better solutions. How do we roll out this political organization? I'm sorry. Well, I'll tell you what we're doing here.", "doing here in Michigan and we're actually going to have something at 7 p.m on Wednesday where we are announcing it so you get a sneak peak but here, the care office here in", "where we are going through different aspects of the history of this country, starting with Native Americans or Indigenous Americans and ethnic cleansing, dealing with the issue of chow slavery, and then how this moved into how policing evolved in the area of reconstruction, where the overseers became the officers, literally. Overseer, officer, overseer.", "through a number of these issues and we're going to make it available. And a lot of children will not be in school, high school students. And this can be like supplementary instruction, right? So at least here in Michigan, and it'll be online and anyone can watch it throughout the country but we've put together and we've talked with some people relationship to curriculum so we're trying", "be have some robustness and can spark people to read more we'll have a suggested booklet list at the same time it will be at the level where someone who's at uh ninth grade tenth grade uh reading level of cognitive skills will be able to absorb and digest uh most if not all the information so this is what", "two days online and then it will start in September, inshallah. Okay. Do me a favor. Can you keep up with me so I make sure I announce that like 100 times? Sure thing. Because people need to have it wherever they are. Now back to the second one. So the second", "are doing on the grassroots relating to police accountability, community policing, legislative reform. And this is something that people should be doing in their localities. And I say this with all due respect to many people who are on the national organizing scene and suggesting people to get involved by going to national organizations.", "that people should get involved in what's going on their locality and get to know who's doing what in their locale. Because local shifting and policing can't work from a top down type of approach, it has to work from the locality. So grassroots not grass tops as they say right? So this is my suggestion which means", "building some relationships. And I know that's kind of difficult right now during COVID-19 pandemic, but God willing this isn't going to last forever, but there are opportunities and localities at least for people to get plugged in your locality. For instance, this is related to a national issue, but today ICNA here in Michigan held a forum", "forum online at 4 p.m eastern they had earlier today about political education and letter writing around the imam jameel el amin case right so that was local people here which works to have basically a teach-in uh about space for justice", "Well, let me just say this has been an eye-opener. I can't thank you enough for honoring me at Critical Talk on Muslim Network TV. We'll chase you down again because I got to keep up with stuff. You know, I'm sitting down here and let us get on fire in Chicago so I have", "I have to keep in touch and hopefully you will watch Muslim Network TV, put it in your network. Everybody listening they will hear you again and programs that Lampost has the initiatives that Care Michigan is doing. I want to know it all Do you have a last word? Well my last word is simply may Allah bless you and may Allah reward you", "and may Allah preserve the Muslim TV network, and the work that Imam Abdul Malik Mujahid is trying to do to help lift us up and give us a voice in the Muslim community. That we're not always dependent on other people to do for us what we should do for ourselves. Kind of like the 1990s clothing brand FUBU, For Us By Us. We need FUBu media right?", "For us and by us. Okay, let me give my salams to ask you to stay on. This has been Critical Talk with Professor Aminah Al-Teen. I have had as my wonderful guest Imam Dawood Wali. So long." ]
amina_mccloud/Critical Talk with Prof_ Aminah Al-Deen Ph_D__ulnrfmr_j4Y&pp=ygUVQW1pbmFoIE1jQ2xvdWQgIGlzbGFt_1742895082.opus	[ "Good afternoon. This is Critical Talk with Professor Amina Aldi, and I have the wonderful pleasure of continuing a conversation with two very well-known chaplains in universities. One is Dr. Amina Darwish, and she's the Muslim Life Coordinator at the Columbia University. She's Ernie Jazza.", "traditional Islamic studies certifications from Kalam Seminary in Dallas and the Critical Loyalty Seminary, Toronto. She earned a PhD in chemical engineering before switching careers to follow her true passion as she is passionate folks. She's worked at work as an adjunct faculty of the University of Cincinnati Claremont and Northern Kentucky University", "Hajra Sharif is the imam, say it right, imama and chaplain. I love this term. She holds a bachelor's degree in philosophy and economics from Wesleyan College, one of my favoritest places, and a master's in Islamic studies with both academic and traditional training.", "Muslim countries such as Jordan, Malaysia, Palestine, Turkey and Indonesia. Welcome ladies. Thank you for having us. I could have y'all on every night and my life would be just a joy. Likewise. We talked a little bit about chaplaincy and some things but I want to dig a little deeper", "to how what is the training in Muslim chaplaincy? Either one of you can jump in there. Sure so I actually worked for Boston Islamic Seminary, so I had like a little bit of a sneak peek behind the scenes of what the curriculum development is like they haven't launched yet but", "But basically they're an institution that hopes to offer a master's program as well, to serve, to develop religious leaders, to service the Muslim American community. And in my work as a Kukum writer I helped develop 80 course descriptions as well as three syllabuses for courses that range from Aqidah, Fiqh, Dazkiyah, Quran and Sunnah, pastoral care, counseling, leadership,", "sociology, history and religion courses etc. So it was quite a number of uh quite a variety of courses and I noticed um in these courses you can see a methodology so they offer religious sciences pastoral care skills building as well as secular courses", "manual in their course manual they explicitly state that their educational philosophy is focused on three things knowledge of Islamic texts, knowledge of contemporary context and skill building. And I just think that this methodology is extremely robust because one of the primary problems that the Muslim community has is not even being relevant to people's actual realities. And so um this focus on understanding contemporary context,", "understanding, you know counseling developing those skills I think it's crucial in developing a great Muslim chaplain as well as any Muslim religious leader and You know some of the questions that I've been asked as a chaplain, you they relate to marriage or relationships Or even you know can a student take an interest-bearing student loan now if if you don't have this understanding of context if chaplains aren't sort of trained to", "sort of trained to give importance to context. Someone might just tell the student, no you're not allowed to take an interest bearing loan but this is in American context there's not a lot of options for students to secure any type of loan and not having access to this loan could jeopardize their studies and the result of that is poverty. So having this understanding of context knowing", "certain rulings and knowing how to respond to actual people's questions is really important for a chaplain to do. And that's something that I really admire about Boston Islamic Seminary. There are a few other institutions out there like Islamic Seminar of America, Yasser Qadi, Ma'am Suleiman, and Tamar Gray are associated with those institutions. I haven't worked with them so I can't speak to their work but they do have a website and they're up-and-coming and so that's another option as well.", "Yes. I first want to apologize, my neighbors are having a concert so if you can hear the background music. We could join after the show is over. But I didn't personally graduate from the Hartford Seminary but the bulk of the chaplains that I've met especially within academic institutions a lot of them did graduate from", "how with producing these chaplains that could have conversations with the institutions. The seminaries that I attended, the Qalam Seminary is when it first started and still is a very traditional seminary they have now included other faculty that have also studied academically and traditionally. The Critical Loyalty Seminary does try to balance the traditional with the academic discussions because to Hajara's point when you're meeting with students some of them are like", "them are like, hey can I wipe over my socks? And the other student is what about a loan and it's just...and then someone that's really struggling with their iman in terms of how do i handle the discussion on evolution in my classes. How do we understand our Islamic history where I'm coming from a place of pride. Like I understand that there's a problem with the colonialist narrative,", "to have those conversations are really important on one side, but the other part of it that is also really important is trying to understand how do we fit within the institution? How do I converse? How Do I communicate with the university administration? How did we try to figure out solutions within an academic context so that we can say accommodate students who are fasting during Ramadan. So there's a lot- Let me, let me cause you're only talking about Muslim students. Universities have loads of students chaplains are supposed to serve everybody", "serve everybody. If your training is only about things Islam and you only talk to Muslim students, how are you doing the true role of a chaplain at a university? Yeah that's actually a great question. Luckily I um not luckily but i didn't actually go to Boston Islam Center or any of these seminars in", "But that is a great question. You do need to study worldviews of other religions so that you can have- So if you don't do this in your training, Ammon I'm sorry? I think the Hartford Seminary more than any of the other ones was better at doing that and I mean, I agree. A lot of it was just on the job or just my own interfaith work that gave me the language and the capacity to be able to talk about religion.", "that is really important also just being in terms of activism recognizing when people are having a discussion about religious freedom in America what do they actually mean and what is what is freedom of religion how do we have conversations with other religious groups so that we are maintaining that sense of actually protecting that ideal without having someone abuse it I think what was what I really appreciated about my experience at the University", "of both Muslim and Jewish students that walking into a space, I know I needed to represent both groups of like hey we need halal food and we need kosher food. And it was essentially presenting that same argument you're more likely to gain traction with the university if you are presenting as an interfaith discussion in the same way that is in a space where there would be more... If a space has Islamophobia or probably also has antisemitism probably also just unfortunately", "or Buddhism, or other religions that being in that space I need to know enough about hey no we need to make sure those students are also accommodated and I can be here even if i'm not part of your tradition to amplify your voice through the university. Let me dig on that a little bit more. I dug on it last time. I am not a proponent of people having special foods to go to college they go to", "that can be a slippery slope. If you have conservative Orthodox Jewish folk, then you got to separate the meat from the dairy and then if you have this over here, you gotto separate the this from the that and I can't have... The pan should never have cooked pork in it. That's very slippery slope It depends on the proportions of the students, I feel", "I feel when there's a large enough group of students, again more than 1,000 Muslim students on Columbia's campus at core. A lot of them are paying for meal plans and if you're expecting the students to live on campus to eat in the dining hall then it's part of your university's experience then it becomes also a part of the university's", "is bringing people together around food. And I felt like it was very impactful to some of the cultures. I mean, I taught at DePaul. I've taught at Harvard. I'm in different places. Muslims clumped together and between their scarves and their coffees warning people don't come over here. They don't mix. So I would say that being responsive to different food needs is actually good for business.", "That's actually why even restaurants are being accommodating to the needs of vegetarians. Sure, maybe we- And Rosa and I are out of business right now but go ahead. I'm just saying- I mean, I don't have the statistics. I am sure you know we can look into the numbers but clearly there is a benefit otherwise why would they do that? Muslims are part of the market so if they want Muslims", "they have to be accommodating. Maybe a Muslim will decide to go elsewhere if they don't have that option. Do you know how many cultures reside in the United States? And what would happen if colleges and universities... Muslims are a very tiny part of the United State. Tiny, teeny-tiny. Yep. And there are groups who are not as demanding as Muslims are or far larger. I mean,", "I mean, I don't actually even know if most universities and colleges give halal options. I think only at elite universities and they tend to have the demographics to support that. I'm just digging and waking you up. No but I appreciate it because I learned a lot from the Jewish students just if I didn't have a halal option I was going to eat kosher and I was gonna hang out with Jewish students because that was my food option. Well that is another thing that bothers me", "excuse me, at DePaul, our chaplain. He's now I think head of whatever university like whatever you call that but he has made an effort to break the cliques of Muslims up and force them by teaching courses in Islam in Chicago doing a lot of different things", "out of their bubbles and into interactions with other students because they've left to their druthers, they stay in their bubble. Honestly I think this is what everyone does not just Muslims white people do it too but because they're the majority where they're seen as a standard if you look at who are the friend groups of a lot of white people there's just", "Muslims who are targeted and honestly, you know if you are a minority you need that support system It's just like daily my progressions every day don't have people look claim Anything else beside being in your bubble If you're claiming to fight for social justice if you're Claiming to do all of these things and you're in a bubble where everybody looks like you then how the hell are you doing? All those things sure. That's definitely a trajectory we need but", "but development of self comes first before you can offer to others. If you don't even, if you are like- So going to the liberal arts school for the Muslim is not about getting a liberal education and meeting people from other places. It's finding oneself. It' everything. Okay. I think the balance of that is making... And I think I mentioned this last time when we were talking", "it was very intentionally trying to reach out to different Muslims in America are the most diverse ethnic group, most ethnically diverse. And they don't talk to each other but go ahead. And that was me trying to break that within the Muslim community itself of no we're gonna acknowledge that there's different cultures and we're going to celebrate them in a way that hopefully allows us to still celebrate our identities but also reach out", "we were, if without COVID, we would have had four nights that were specifically celebrating. We had last year, we did Senegalese food, Somali food and just soul food. And again, because we're in New York, we're really privileged to be able to do this. The students from the Black Student Organization, Muslim or not came because it was one of a few spaces to celebrate a black culture in a way that wasn't talking about something that was negative. It was just", "and we're just going to eat yummy food. Some Muslims are saying that the Muslims should celebrate themselves first. I mean, it's not about what's first and later but I'm just pointing out the reality. The reality is that Muslims are targets of the state under incredible pressure and surveillance. Some", "and Latino Muslims are not targeted. Native Americans- If your religion is being disparaged on the media, you are targeted. If there's so much- Black, brown, Native American, and white Muslims are now targeted for deportation or detention. Yeah, that's not what I was getting at. I was going to get a general climate of hate and anti Muslim bigotry. That's enough to break someone down.", "someone down. I lived in a Muslim country and I was astonished by the psychological well-being that I suddenly attained just from being surrounded by people who supported me, and if you have not lived abroad you have no idea the difference! I never in my entire life realized how damaged i felt living in the U.S., it's only when", "that. So, I mean, you know, Muslims are going through a lot. We should be sensitive to that but we do need to reach out to allies. We do need engage with the greater society and hopefully inshallah we can develop. Well, I think the difference is in that the Black, Brown, Native American and white have a multi-religious family. And they don't feel what you feel. And", "in some instances said when are you moving to me or feel good yeah if when you feel at home where you feel supported is outside of the united states the question often is when are", "blaming us for everything and scapegoating us? No. If I, you know... Well, that's a different story. But I think if I've lived overseas for extended periods of time, I have never felt so unwelcome. I've been stereotyped. The racism rolls off of people's tongues and down their sleeves. So the comfort you feel... No, no, no. Okay.", "don't so I also experience those things and I mean, I think you mentioned feeling at home But I didn't use this words that I don't feel at home. I'm just saying there was a difference psychologically Hmm. There's definitely a difference just because it's different doesn't mean it's perfect I mean of course I stopped before living in the United States. I still prefer living in I see if I'm an American but to build Sorry to be help try to build a cohesive American Muslim community", "other and their experiences are so vastly different. In a post 9-11 world more than half of our Muslim youth, I believe it was a care study that said they were bullied in school for being Muslim. So there's part of the healing of what about my Muslim identity and what about other identities because depending on how you present in American society you're still going to have a fundamentally different experience. And one common thread that brings all the Muslims together is their Muslimness", "their Muslimness and the part of trying to create that sense of cohesion, it becomes important as Muslims we're all going to for example go to Jummah or fast during Ramadan. Now how do I make that space now actually representative of all the segments of the Muslim community so that there's... And it's funny to me because my students someone would almost every Jumma, we have more than 200 people that come to our Jummah, almost every week someone will be like, I didn't like the khutbah this week. And I'm like well wait till next week,", "that's gonna talk about because we learn Islam within those contexts, we're expecting it to look a certain way. So if I say go to a khutbah and the Imam doesn't yell at me and tell me I'm horrible and I need to do better for one person that's like wait a minute I didn't learn anything this khutba. No no you're maybe you're learning something else or maybe you were learning about how someone else in our community is going to respond and I use that as a joke alhamdulillah", "Hopefully, how do we build a strong relationship with Allah? How do we built strong relationships with each other? But part of it is having a diversity of speakers so that you are representing people and saying this was my experience in these different Muslim spaces. And this is what it looks like. Wallahualam I don't know if I helped. Translate We have asked that we damp down the religious talk. So if you're going to use it please translate for our non-Muslim", "that this is your time to experience that, understand that and engage with it. And hopefully still gain something from that reminder, the weekly reminder. I'm looking at our comments coming from outside. I like for young people to hear from you too. I wonder if there's anything in the comment section because I like listening to women.", "But also, you know when I asked how many have ever heard one of the Chinese imams give the khutbah and nothing? How many have heard the ones from Australia or South Africa or oh I don't know Malaysia striking stirring khutba's", "well, we seem to want to have an ethnic only representation of Islam. I can count the African-American or Latino chaplains and universities who are well, well, very well qualified but they are not seen as representing Islam and are not brought in", "That is the definition of unfortunate. And I feel almost a betrayal to what the message of Islam is, of who we are as people in front of God and in front each other that it's our belief that makes... It's our righteousness that makes us valuable in the eyes of God not anything else.", "Having said that, culture is a collective human experience and appreciating someone's culture is about appreciating them as a human being. It's not about celebrating one over the other and it never should be. And it's important that we do have those conversations. One of the things that we did after... The current racial awakening that we are now experiencing and the tragic killing of George Floyd,", "we're having these conversations, one of the things that I tried to do since the end of Ramadan which was in mid-May. We've had exclusively Black speakers every single week and I only had one repeat. And again it was trying to show my students just how wide the range is. You're in New York right? Yes. You got Chinese imams. I mean you have the whole smorgasbord just to remind you of imams there.", "you know i mean here in chicago we have us there's a little section of chinatown where i took a class down because i wanted to show them the um the the islamic the chinese writing for uh what is this something impure something and pure and so that they could see which ones were the chinese muslim restaurants but i think i worry", "No, I don't really worry. I'm glad to see women in chaplaincy. I am so glad I could jump out of this seat if I was jumping anymore. And it's because many of us in this society are very used to women in leadership positions and we're very shocked with Muslim world throw women under the bus behind the bus", "but middle way the bus. And no matter how bright, how innovative, how creative and how learned they actually were when our history is full of women scholars who have actually been hidden. So I had a bunch of people, well not a bunch", "I guess, terminal degree at least before I can think about becoming a chaplain. Because see what you all do, you all have the largest to pick and choose your audience. Chaplains in prison and hospitals and corporations don't have that luxury. You know, if my father died, it doesn't matter what I am and I need to see a chaplin, I'm coming. Right? But", "Where do they go? What's the ending degree? You can't become a chaplain with a high school diploma, right? No. And a lot of them are the MDivs, the seminaries, the institutions like that. I mean from what I've seen you have to have a bachelor's degree and the standards vary depending on the institution. Some look for masters in Islamic study, religious studies", "religious studies, Islamic studies, whatever. And some require it. So I mean there's difference but education chaplains are different in the sense that they look at different standards. It's a more intellectual environment so they do want to see more education. I think for in hospital work and prisons they do need chaplaincy training but not necessarily like you know academic masters type of thing. Listening audience", "listening audience i hope y'all got that now i want to turn a little bit to women one of my loving subjects i won't call it favorite is loving um i am excited", "of stuff that gets rolled out when we talk about things Islamic. As if women can't read, can't memorize, can, can and half of the men ain't qualified to do much. It reminds me of the prophetic narration when the prophet said take half your knowledge from Aisha. That is sort of a call for equal representation in religious authority right? Take your authority also from woman.", "Almost as if I don't understand how come. I think there's an unfortunate, I'm seeing a lot of women leave traditional Islam because of that. They see the misogyny. It's not hard to point out. But what? Women raise men. Yes. And the most shocking one to me every time there's a men's only panel when it's about women's rights and I'm like you couldn't find", "And I'm like, you couldn't find a single woman. Like just don't have the battle. What women have got to do is jump up and say, oh who are you? Bye. So a lot of this is sustained by pre-modern fic. So we actually have a problem in terms of Islamic thought which is sort of the engine behind this misogyny.", "as they start realizing that some of this fiqh is not sensible, they'll start adapting fiqhh to something that is sensible to their context. Last time I was in Egypt and I was trying to get it translated and published by a place here, there is an Arabic-to-English spy volume or it's a bibliography, Women in Islam. Have you seen it, Amina? I have not.", "I have not, but I've heard of other ones. Yeah, and I mean it's like those books are thick. Yes. So it looks like they're not there, but women want to promote them too. Go ahead.", "institutions started to become devastated through economically and culturally in different ways. Female scholarship was normal. The oldest running university in the world is the one in Morocco, it's opened by a woman Fatima Al-Fahriya. It's been around for 12 centuries. Exactly but you know what? You all have gotten me so excited that I forgot to take my break. So now we're going", "minute and we'll be back to have some more exciting conversation. Sounds good.", "And we're back. I've got so much good stuff here. Let me see. Let's see.", "to what we were studying, Islam or chaplaincies. Were any of the professors black or brown? What do you mean by Brown? So I went to Malaysia and so there were Malay- Brown. Yeah. There are Malay professors. Yes, I did have a Black professor", "have a black professor. There were two in that program, I had one of them. I mean, I've been to two different programs in Malaysia so... Or any other female? Yeah, so there was the white Russian lady. There was...I left the other program but trying to remember. I think there was also a female well,", "And I know you all are going to change that, Amina.", "was acknowledging her and Allah subhanahu wa ta'ala revealing an ayah, God revealing verses to affirm her that say that... And unfortunately some of the English translations of this verse is in Surah Al-Ahzab if anyone wants to look it up. But it's saying, say that the Muslims when they translate it, they say, say the Muslim men and the Muslim women and the believing men andthe believing women. The way that it actually should be translated is say the Muslims collective and the muslim woman where it's highlighting them", "highlighting them, not just equating them to the men. And it was again about restoring a balance and when people ask about I feel like you get this a lot of who wants to marry the feminist woman that is objecting to everything after her husband Abu Salimah passed away she married the Prophet peace be upon him himself so the answer of who want's to marry a feminist woman? Prophet Muhammad and anyone following in his footsteps", "And again, but having said that how many people when we talk about these women only talk about them as a function of just something so small and I'm sure we've all done this where you've attended something and someone's like oh your marriage is deficient until you have children. I'm like excuse me do you understand who you insulted? You insulted Aisha! Like shh!", "Somebody, not your husband, talked to you about your womb? This was in a public gathering that someone said this. And they didn't have to take you away in chains? Oh, I definitely objected and I'm really grateful for being able to have studied because my objection", "of, in this verse it says that you here we are talking about the marriage of Aisha to the Prophet peace be upon him and they didn't have children. You don't get to insult their marriage. How does somebody who is not your husband get to talk about your womb period without being flattened like a pancake? It's about seeing women as unidimensional instead of multidimessional. If any of the Sahabi were women", "where women existed today, they would be rejected by the Muslim community. And they would tell the Muslims community that you know where the sun don't shine. Exactly! SubhanAllah. Like honestly, we do have to be... There is so much inspiration in our early sources but yes, the tradition also has been very positive to woman. Sheikh Akram Nedawee wrote a book about the female scholars who had this side", "who had this sad for something and so we did have you know a rich tradition of female scholars but we also have to be critical of that tradition there were you know there were aspects in that tradition where women you know were not seen as authoritative why aren't there any woman imams for example anyone they weren't teachers yeah and they were but", "And I'm saying Imam in terms of like the head of a madhhab, not a prayer leader. There were actually female prayer leaders in Islamic history but it was a minority. But even within the Madhahib and I can't speak to the other Madhub, within the Hanafi tradition It was Imam Abu Hanifa's daughter who is a scholar in her own right that codified the entire discussion on menstruation Like in what world do we think men hung out and said let's discuss menstruation? They didn't", "Right. But do women only have to talk about female issues? Exactly. They don't. I agree. I want to talk Islamic finance and so many other things. Yeah, and I was told in the Muslim world that by some people not by the programs that I attended but by Shaykh that this is not appropriate for woman and that the brain of a woman after she has children becomes like", "because like that of a child. Did you throw something at him or ask him where was his mama? That she could raise the fool like that? I was also sensitive to the fact that I was an American and so I didn't want to impose my culture. No, no, I want women from those cultures to stand up for themselves. I do have to position myself. Remember my positionality and not be like that meddling American who", "I am a paddling American. Of course, I can have critical conversations but I wouldn't throw something. I understand what you're saying. Before we came on air, Aminal had let me know that she had written an article for Muslim Matters, I think it is and I would like for Padra and I to listen", "to a synopsis and then join you in discussion I really appreciate that the discussion I appreciate hopefully it goes well so there's the chapter in the Quran called Surah Al-Araf and part of the discussion is about a group of people that really didn't commit like they were the people that were sleeping that said oh yeah this discussion", "the story of Prophet Moses, Musa peace be upon him and Pharaoh. And there's the people that on the day of judgment decided with Pharaoh when things don't go well for them. And then there's people that sided with prophet Musa and they are taken to heaven. And those are the people who are kind of just stuck there. On the Araf that didn't commit, they didn't come into righteousness. They weren't on the side of pharaohs. They're not like hey let's go oppress", "like this is not our fight. Silence is oppression. Silence IS oppression and I think it's really important to have that conversation, and part of the reason we were having that discussion within my own community is the group of about 25% I don't know exactly the studies of the American Muslim population that is Black that would've looked like a George Floyd that already understand what it's like to be-to", "Now the other 75%, it's your job to protect those who are vulnerable. It's your jobs to fight against systems of oppression, it is your job To stand on the side of Prophet Musa This is in our holy book. This is a prophet I can't come like if I want to meet Musa peace be upon him in heaven Like I want hang out with him. I have a list of questions about them crossing through the Red Sea. I just think it's fascinating", "I want to make sure that we end up on the right side. We can't look at discussions of righteousness and oppression and say, not my fight. It is your fight. What does it mean?", "you know, you're trying to be diplomatic and which is a good thing. But sometimes standing up for social justice means you will rock the boat. And sometimes you doing that will create disunity. Right? And the prophet created so much division in his community for standing up or justice. Sometimes we think unity is what is most important at what cost though. And so it's a tricky balance. Yes, unity matters but at what costs", "And as chaplains, there's always this tension between social justice and community cohesion. And there's no right and wrong way. I mean it's just something that you have to engage with case by case but I hope that we understand the narrative of social justice. That was very well said. I can see the dilemma, but how do we for those who want to what can we say", "to urge them on the side of Musa? What can we do to urge out a neutral where they recognize that silence is oppression? I honestly would urge to be on the site of the Prophet Muhammad. Yes, Musa is incredible and we should draw on his ideas but the Prophet was successful. He was", "He was a social reformer and revolutionary, and he achieved success. He knew how to mobilize human beings to create unity at the same time striving for social justice, to enact change by grassroots also at the state level if you had that power. I mean his example is so much more it resonates so much with our context. And of course the principles of social justice that Musa sort of enacted are also relevant but the prophet", "The Prophet was a community person, a humanitarian. Those things are so much proper. I think his story is so much more powerful and not to pit them against each other. We can use both but let's remember the Prophet. Peace be upon him. And the Prophet, peace be upon Him, the reason that we have those discussions in the Qur'an is so that we can learn from them. In my view, I don't think it's about rocking the boat. I don t think the boat is upside down. I don't think the boats functioning correctly. If it's just who gets to hold on on the outside of the boat then we're inherently saying", "There's some people in our community that are not welcome, that aren't included. And that's not okay. It was Imam Suhaib Sultan to his credit at Princeton. I really appreciate him. He's a good friend. May Allah give him complete shifa, like complete healing from his illness. That he was talking about this. He said there's a minimalist view and there's maximalist view where I'm gonna try to come up with what is the one thing that is the least controversial?", "And we'll only do that. But what it does is, it limits so much of the beauty and the discussion and the creativity. Instead let's try to do the opposite where it's like, let's present everything. And let's all have discussions to make sure our boat is big enough to carry everyone. That it is actually inclusive of everyone. And if I'm standing on principle, that's what made our tradition what it is. Prophet Muhammad peace be upon him in...", "person in teaching people and in dealing with their oppressions. He taught you right. But our prophet had his flaws. We're not going to Jesus Christ, our prophet where he did no wrong. He walked on water. He was perfect. He did this and that and the other because that is not the human being presented to us in the Quran. I think we have to continue to be careful", "careful to not join Christians and to elevating a prophet to God's like status. He wasn't always the kindest because he turns away a poor blind man while he's seeking some people who are wealthier. And it wasn't being the kindness. Right, but his example afterwards,", "It was narrated that he never behaved unkindly to that person. In fact, he went over the top to make it work. Did God write that? No, I said after the incident. No, but what I'm saying is we still have... Of course, of course, I agree with you. I didn't come to Islam with a perfect prophet who had no flaws, always corrected us. I came because the prophet was human.", "was human and I could see myself along a path. For those who wanna make our prophet perfect, that's fine but in the same way that Christians have done it over centuries to Jesus and he winds up being God, I would caution people to watch it. Right? I agree with making sure that we... To not ever forget the humanity of the Prophet peace be upon him. There isn't a very unfortunate understanding", "where we talk about him like he was wearing a cape and he was a superhero, he was Superman. He felt pain when he... To the point that Professor Amina just made that when God corrected him, he took the correction. And him being human is the reason. But I think that helps. I mean, I understand what Hajra was saying but I also think that have you read this book?", "book by Kamran Kasha, Mother of the Believers. It's very familiar. Let me tell you, if you haven't read it yet, I taught it like eight times but I liked it because all my non-Muslim students jumped on it. It was the first down to earth everyday story they had heard out of the mouth of a Muslim. All Muslims are perfect.", "or this is perfect, all the other's perfect. And then when Muslims get undressed they say oh well it was those over there not me. I agree with you and sometimes we lose the wisdom of the Prophet himself because we can't see when he was behaving like a human yeah and then we put them into like this absolute form rigid form that we have to follow to the letter instead of looking at what is", "ethical objective behind how he acted, he was acting within context and then realized those same ethics in our contemporary context. It enables growth and dynamism just because the prophet wore certain clothes or... Tell me about it. But it manifests in different ways in our community and I think that the celebrity Imam culture is just another manifestation of that", "the imam that is being held as does no wrong. And I think it's actually another form of idolatry, unfortunately. It is. You're frozen in time. You can slip on over. Our last question for the evening. I gave a talk and one of the things I tried to do was I centered the talk around looking at the prophets in the Quran and their challenges, et cetera, et", "But we have gone from everyday life to the throes and, oh my God, the chaos of pandemic. With the worst medical advice on the planet. Then we looked up and in the middle of that, we were trying to make sure we had supplies. The state cities closed down the Sajid.", "down the Sajjad. People went into a tradition frenzy. It's like, I'm so used to performing Islam. I don't know what to do if I can't perform Islam so somebody else can see me. Oh my God! Then we went into Ramadan. And it's oh my God, people really can't see me perform and do this and then we went from there pandemic is still happening to oh my god they're going to close Hajj.", "Talk, speak to it. I mean luckily they did close Hajj and a lot of mosques so they did comply but more recently also there's been mosque that are reopening and because of these social distancing rules some of them have decided to ban Muslim women from attending the prayers and they use the logic that the men you know", "therefore the woman's right is secondary, which is flawed. I'm actually writing a paper. To sue them. Well, they were stopped by lawyers but I'm also writing a newspaper on the legal logic behind this sort of like false thinking and just trying to show that Muslim women first of all in the Quran it obligates all those who have faith to Friday prayer", "the hadith is contextual when it says Muslim women, you don't need to perform the prayer Friday prayer in congregation. That's contextual. It groups them with the sick and the traveler and these other people disabled people. Women back there with the infirm. Why would what? Why would you put women with the six? No, no, no because their context didn't allow them to perform a weekly public", "public work, right? If your society is functions where women are in the house most of the time or near their houses then it's just so difficult to go to the private part. My wonderful sister. What I'm saying is that it's based on context. Women can decide for themselves what is best", "what is best for them. And based on that, the obligation holds. So if you are capable of going to the mosque and making the Fajr prayer, it's obligatory on you. And I think to your point, it gave women the choice. It almost on some level, it trusted them for their own spiritual well-being to make that decision for themselves. And the discussion... And I don't think I've ever started a fight this big on my Facebook page before. But that was again about this thing", "about this thing where people were saying, oh it's not obligatory on women. It never was and still Prophet Muhammad peace be upon him told us you can't ban the female slaves of Allah from the house of Allah I still have a right to that You don't want to tell me I'll set this up in another conversation because I don't read it that way Never read it That way would not I'd be Buddhist if I had read it", "a congregational prayer be obligatory on me unless there was an exception. And this is again... I'm saying it is, but that there's an exception for circumstance. So the Hadith is circumstantial. The general is... Well, I don't follow Hadith, but what I'm", "women do not if they read it that way, they'd be Buddhist or something else. Okay, so my question to you is, Do you think all the sahabi went and perform a Friday prayer? All the whole the sahabit? Oh, I don't know. That was so that's not even in my sphere thinking and I don' care. Right So what I'm saying is that that no, it's just like telling a woman she can't pray if she's on her menstrual cycle was supposed", "suppose she dies and she's on a minstrel because somebody said she can't pray. She's supposed to die without prayer? So how I view it is that it creates flexibility. No, I'm leaving it open to you. I'm just saying since this is a multicultural conversation, this culture says no to that. Which culture? The mostly American African", "and brown culture say no to that. So it's no to... The Quran says what it says. I think if you're menstruating... I think the discussion on menstruation, when I'm menstruating my body is physically worshipping God just in a different way. Immigrant understandings have so harmed the American African Black", "Black, white Native American community that there has to be an understanding of what's cultural understanding because even Arabs read the Arabic with a cultural understanding. Right? Yeah exactly and the Hadith should be seen as contextual which is what I was trying to get at No I'm saying for you they may be No contextual in the sense that it is one cultural", "one cultural realization of that. But we can still see that as an option because many South Asians, you know, they don't go to Friday prayer because I mean, that's a whole nother. Ladies, it has been as you and I'm going to hound you all because you're the only two Muslim. No, I know three Muslims. No four female Muslim chaplains. The audience deserves to hear you.", "you. I will keep arguing with you because you're the only ones I know and I'm having a ball and it'll move my day, but you all have been wonderful. Thank you again. Please say that you will come back if the producer says you are no. And you won't say I'm tired of Amina. I've had enough. But no, because Never get tired of you, Professor. For the young women to see skilled", "skilled, learned women who are articulate. Just go after it. This has been a critical talk with Professor Aminah Aldean and I hope to see you tomorrow night. Don't go nowhere." ]
amina_mccloud/Critical Talk with Prof_ Aminah Al-Deen Ph_D__vFCA6CeNjlE&pp=ygUVQW1pbmFoIE1jQ2xvdWQgIGlzbGFt_1742896437.opus	[ "Political Sciences, who is Professor Scott Hibbard, who an associate professor and the chair of the Department of Political Science at the University. And I wanna just say for those of you", "listened to previous shows. He teaches courses on American foreign policy, Middle East politics, international relations, religion and politics, on presidential elections. He received his PhD from Johns Hopkins and has advanced degrees from the London School of Economics and Political Science at Georgetown University. I am going to advise those of you who want", "to know more about Professor Hibbert, to go on DePaul University's webpage. All of his texts and things are there. And because we have so much to cover tonight, I'm going to invite him in. Okay. Great to see you. Thanks for having me on again, Aminah. And you know me and my hundred questions. We have a kind of wild and flying by the ear agenda tonight.", "tonight and so many things to cover. What I want to cover was actually in the international news before we go to the more mainstream national story of the day. I turned on the TV the other day, and I saw riot gear for a month ago, and it probably was, but in a different era. Men running down with these shit policemen", "with these shields and stuff, and tear glass. And then they tell me it's Belarus. And I'm sitting back and I have to think where the hell is Belarus? That's the country that's next to Poland and not as far east as the Soviet Union. Out of some other countries I can't pronounce. So what is going on in Belarus? In many respects Belarus is the last dictatorship", "And they had elections where the President Alexander Lutsenko was reelected for the sixth time. How do you get re-elected? So going back to kind of my background, this is just like Hazem Mubarak running for election. They're stage managed. The opposition gets arrested in prison so they're not actually out campaigning.", "I guess there were a handful of opposition candidates that did want to put their name forward. Because they do have, you know this is the post Soviet era so there is an independent civil society but you still have the levers of government if you will controlled by the central state and controlled by The Party which is Litvinshchek's party. And so he did his one of these main individuals who could've garnered support was", "was a relatively famous blogger and journalist, and he was put in prison. But his wife decided to run in his stead, and she was allowed to campaign. And her name was Svetlana, and I'll not get the name right, but it's Tikhna Saskia. But she captured the imagination of people on the street, and this is kind of the interesting part of it. If it's a dictatorship, why are they going through the facade of elections?", "elections. And that kind of shows you where, you know, where the world is, that there is a element of democratic legitimacy that comes along with elections. So even dictatorships like those in Belarus or Egypt or Russia, they need that facade of popularity or facade of legitimacy so they will run elections. They will control them. They'll control media,", "they will run the elections. Now, what was interesting about this time is it really highlighted the fact that the government is unstable. There's a financial crisis or an economic crisis going on. They've mismanaged the pandemic. People are very much opposed to the regime and I'm sure if they actually looked at the results of the voting, they would have realized they lost massively but of course since they were doing the counting, they won by 80%.", "80% so Yeah, but what's interesting about the end kind of closed us out. What's interesting? About this story is You know the opposition candidate who was running against? Lichtenchenko was forced to flee the country or basically told to leave and as I understand they made death threats against her children and Yeah, yeah and This is a brutal Stalinist style dictatorship", "I mean, and so what's happened is even though she was forced to leave you have this large population that is adamantly opposed the government. And now they saw through what happened and now they're out in the streets protesting the government and facing off against the riot police in the street. And then that's kind of the context but the theme of tonight's show as we'll talk about", "is you have certain kind of dynamics going on. You have an authoritarian government who's using the apparatus of the state not to provide services to the population, but to enrich themselves and so you basically count a criminal mafia at the top and the population has really had it and so they're in the streets. So what's that? Almost like here.", "What is, you know, I looked in there. The next news story was Lebanon and some, I don't know, deposit of what was it? Ammonium nitrate? Ambonium nitrite. Yeah. How do you have that much ammonium nitride near a residential area? Yeah. So it's I mean, it's a tragic story on any number of levels. And, you", "forever. But the first question about the ammonium nitrate is it was seized in, or there was a ship that moored in the port of Beirut. It didn't have proper licensing. It was not actually seaworthy. It", "explosives. It was smuggling it from one place to another and like a lot of ports there's a lot criminal elements that are engaged in the management of the port because there is money to be made in smuggling, right? And for one reason or another the Port Authority seized the cargo and stored it because I guess the ship was getting ready to sink. This happened like 2013 so", "in the last, what? Seven years it's been sitting there. Right and no one has really known what to do with it. And their report authorities that keep writing to the federal government or national governments saying, we'll do this is real danger. No one ever did anything with it and through a series at least what's been reported on is through a serious of accidents fire was started and it set off the ammonium nitrate but the tragedy is it's just devastated", "just devastated the port and an area about five square miles in the heart of Beirut, which is just shocking. And not only did I think what number it's exactly right now like 165 or 150 people are killed 5,000 injured but supposedly there's 300,000 people homeless.", "but Lebanon for at least decades is touted as having this fantastic government, right? So this is kind of the tragedy of Lebanon. Even before this happened you had a compromise, constitutional compromise that helped bring an end to the civil war in the 1990s and", "was a power sharing arrangement that allocated different parts of the government and control to different sects, and different groups. They had a stake in the Civil War, they have a stake you know, in the governing of the country. And on one hand it was meant to be a sectarian compromise which if you get into peace studies there is a way in which you can create constitutional mechanisms", "harmony or at least some kind of mechanism of modus vivendi within multi-ethnic, multireligious societies. And this was an example of that but over the last 20 years what it's really devolved to is a handful of mafias warning different parts of the economy and different parts", "to the population, whether that's making sure the electricity runs or the water runs or they're using those positions as patronage jobs for their clan. And so they are enriching themselves at the expense of the population and the infrastructure is crumbling. Garbage doesn't get picked up issues don't get taken care of. And this moment ammonium nitrate which should have been removed seven years ago has", "ago has been sitting languishing in some warehouse you know at the you know in the port of beirut um and so you had this fun you had a economic crisis which was only exacerbated by the pandemic you had fiscal crisis which is all very much intertwined and you've had you know this kind of stagnation um and then then then you have on top of that the explosion the other day", "Hello? Something happened and I don't know where you went, but you stopped off at troubling events. And you were talking about these little kind of mafias. So is globalization a conglomeration of little mafios? Well, that's definitely part of it. There is what people always refer to as", "people always refer to as the dark side of globalization that um you know you have basically from the 1990s onward increasing interconnectedness of states and societies on a global level increased trade and what have you and you know insofar as it's well regulated and you things are above board this is great people are creating jobs and what-have-you but uh there's also a lot of", "smuggling drugs, human trafficking, what have you and also money laundering. And the concern has always been that there's always gonna be some degree of criminality within any kind of body politic and on a global level, there's going to be some international organized crime but the question is at what point does it become a predominant influence?", "at certain countries, you kind of wonder whether who's really running the show. I mean is it the drug mafias behind the... Are they the ones with real powers behind the throne? And then you look at places like North Korea which has historically been involved in counterfeiting and illegal sale of missile parts and things like that", "And, you know, there's a high degree of illegality going on. A lot of this is tied up with security services so, you now, 90% of the world's heroin is produced or at least the opium for the heroin is produce in Afghanistan and people assume that a lot of that is facilitated or the transshipment of that", "you know any kind of major um you know, any kind a major militia. You know they frequently are involved in drug trafficking or um or Russia, you know human trafficking is a vice I mean whether it's sex trafficking uh drugs yeah stealing people from Peter to do some with Paul or making weapons everything is advice nothing", "And this kind of gets back to my larger issue that I work on. Because I worked in government for many years, and I really do firmly believe that well-run governments that respect the rule of law, that's... Where is it? Where is that? Minnesota. I don't know. But there are moments in time where we've had clean government", "and government that is restrained. And this kind of gets back to the conversation that you and I were having earlier today about this notion of illiberal democracy, that we talk about democracy as this great thing, as if you hold elections everything's gonna be fine. But you have elections in Egypt, you have election in Russia and Belarus, and they're fabricated.", "racist and fascist come to power. And it does kind of raise this question about, well what good are elections? And the real issue is that when we talk about democracy, when we talked about it as a good thing that needs to be promoted here within the United States, but really talking liberal democratic constitutionalism. So let me say-", "What we're really talking about is liberal democratic constitutionalism. The article I sent you earlier, which we could make available on the website, is written by Fareed Zakaria back in the early 1990s. It talks about this rise of illiberal democracy and he basically makes this argument. And the idea is that what's really good about democratic government is restraint, laws, the rule of law.", "The rule of law. Do you mean restraint of the government? Yes. Interfering in the affairs of people? Yes, right. Or in exercising power over the people? Both and one can think about it this way that at the end of the day, you want governments to be effective but you also wanted to be accountable. Okay. So you want government to provide order but you don't want the government", "You want the government to regulate the economy, but you don't want them muscling in on somebody's economic livelihood. And this is really where what makes a government effective is the rule of law. And many of us who teach government have just been so concerned about the Trump administration", "administration because a lot of the both formal rules that have historically restrained government as well as the norms, kind of the cultural norms of what's accepted behavior, have been so frequently violated by the current president. And again not to belabor this but when you start looking around at these different countries, what really defines all of them is that the government or the government is not accountable", "accountable to the governed. And that's really, that's the important point. When you say Trump is violating rules they're rules not statutes right? There's some kind of tacit agreement that we are going to behave in this way and if you violate it then you just violated and the rest of us get to say oh my God he did", "So, first of all, I say all the above. Some of it is statutes. If you actually read the Mueller report or the Mueller investigation, it's clear that President Trump obstructed the investigation. That is a violation of law. Okay. But because of the rules we have in this country and the Justice Department,", "indict a sitting president. It's up to- Who said that? Who made that up? Somebody sitting there was messing up? Yeah, so that's actually a standard practice within the Department of Justice. And again, so these are also their policies. Some are laws, some are policies, some kind of norms. So like the norms are more of you wouldn't say certain things about certain people or you wouldn' impugn", "the patriotism of a sitting president while he's overseas. Well, people did that to Barack Obama all the time and this is where we talk about the coarsening of the American political discourse that in years gone by, you know, the opposition was the loyal opposition like we may have our disagreements but we're gonna... We agree to a set of rules that we will all live by", "And because we know that at some point in time, we'll be in the opposition and sometimes we'll power. And so we agree to abide by the same rules because we notice the rules will apply to us in the future in the same way they applied to our opponent right now. And there's a certain again kind of cultural, a certain culture of live and let live or a culture of civility, I should phrase it that way. That provides kind of the Greece", "It's the Greece by which, you know, the system operates. And what you're really kind of seeing- What is illiberal? So, okay. So when we talk about liberal, we're basically talking about issues of, you now, liberalism, freedom and individual freedom, respect for individual rights, constitutional law. And this goes back to kind of our earlier point. You can have democracy that's very illiberal", "You can have democracy that's not- That doesn't make sense. How do you have a democracy that is illiberal? Yeah, so let me unpack this for a little bit. The assumption is that if people are engaging in elections, they generally buy the idea that there ought to be a rule of law, that individuals ought to have rights and what have you. We're not looking", "elected in order to start taking away other people's rights. There are political parties, for example I'm thinking of Serbia back in the day with Slobodan Milosevic when he was in power. He ran on a very populist agenda but it was a right-wing populism and it was all about denigrating Muslims and Catholics, Croatians and Bosnians", "behind his vote. Now he was democratically elected and one could argue as a Democrat, I mean small D Democrat but he certainly wasn't liberal. And actually his message was very illiberal in that what he was promising him was to kick out all the Muslims and take control of the properties that they lived in. And from his perspective, he was writing a historical wrong", "1989 and the wars with the Ottoman Empire, etc., etc. But that's an instance where you have people getting elected democratically on a very illiberal or right-wing platform. And we saw the same thing happen in Hungary earlier this year and Brazil earlier this years. So one of things we are going to talk about is one of the fascinating issues within Europe", "really my area of expertise. But a lot of the kind of anti-immigrant sentiment that was generated by, you know, outflux of Syrians in particular but also Iraqis and Afghanis from the different war zones all fleeing into Europe, that fed into this right wing, you", "get elected, helped elect a number of right wing parties that were democratically elected but very illiberal in their vision of society. So in Lebanon we have people from Syria and other places running to Lebanon for safety. Yeah.", "but in some ways, in such a tiny country overburdening the system there. Yeah. I haven't read a lot about that, but that's a really important point because if you think about Syrian civil war, there are 22 million Syrians and I think half of them or about 11 million have been displaced and six of them outside of the country,", "literally half of them, like 3 million ended up in Lebanon. And I don't know what the population of Lebanon is but... Almost a population of Lebanese. The Germans were freaking out about 100,000 refugees. Yeah everybody that was against Assad Oh I don' t know what that noise is. Everybody that was", "So if they went to Syria, they're stuck in Syria where they are not Syrian. I mean, Lebanese citizens and therefore are not eligible to practice professions and this, that, and the other have to tap four steps down and God help the people who had no skills. Yeah. And this is, you know, I mean this is just again one of those it's a tragedy that we watched", "that we watched unfold in slow motion. And it's still going on, even though it's dropped off the front pages of the newspapers. There are still huge amounts of displacement. There're still massive refugee camps in Jordan and Turkey and Lebanon. Right. And for many people their lives are just put on hold and it's not clear where they're... what their future holds. This is one of those moments in time", "where you really need global leadership to stand up and say, hey this is not just a regional problem. It's not just the Syrian problems. I'm just love nice probably Jordanian from this is really a national world global problem. And what do you do? We've been in the house kind of since March. What will we do if our lives were put on hold", "will put on hold with no way to think about a future. Yeah, and you know we're fortunate in that we actually have homes to be quarantined in. I know! I was at the Za'atari refugee camp in Jordan a few years back and it was just shocking because it's just so big. I mean it would have like 100 000 people and it's a small town", "small town. And, you know, I mean they were no longer in tents. They were now actually in structures but way too overcrowded not enough facilities. There's a program to help educate the kids but it's tough. And talk about there's a generation coming of age in that environment. But again going back to our earlier point this is where like in Europe and even", "Europe and even in the U.S., you know, you have right-wing populists who will fan the flame. Okay, yes, okay. So you're basically right-winger populist people who are playing to the masses. And to be clear, I try to differentiate between right-", "So if you're running a campaign, and I'll use Bernie Sanders as an example. He's basically making a class-based argument that the Wall Street types are plundering the wealth of this country and the working man is getting the shaft. And it's actually fairly accurate argument but the point", "populist base. He's making a left-wing argument based on class and class divisions within society as opposed to race or ethnicity or religion, and when you look at Modi in India he's a right wing populist in that he's trying to appeal his base but he's not making a class-based", "you know, kind of nationalist argument about who's a good Hindu or who's the Indian. You know upper class or well Hindu and who's not a good, you know Indian and so you have this, you're either trying to break up the society or try mobilize people on class lines or try to mobilize people along race religion or ethnicity and kind of going back to you know This country was so fascinating about this moment in time", "this moment in time is, you know, Trump as basically a right wing populist very much on the long lines of Modi or somebody like that where he's using his demonizing and other whether that's African-Americans or Hispanics or Mexicans or immigrants or Syrians or Muslims. And he tries it when he's always identifying some kind of other", "which he sees as kind of the white working class. And that worked well for him in the last election, what's interesting about again this moment in time is the Republican party as a larger group of people many of them are horrified at what's going on, many of then are leaving the party but many of also realize that this is a very short term strategy because you can invoke that", "And that might get you a certain amount of votes. But at the end of the day, there's a big pool of people out here and the country is really rapidly changing. You may win another election or two but in the long run just the numbers aren't in your favor. Okay we're going to take a break here for about a minute and come back and deal with our favorite country Britain and our other favorite country called the United States.", "in the United States. Be back in a moment.", "You know, way back when we fought a war to dump Britain.", "to dump Britain or at least dump Britain's hold over us. In the centuries since then, we have in many ways solidified our association. I'll call it an association when Britain went... I mean well not Britain but when all of Europe went into something called European Union people like me worry", "Are my francs gonna be worth anything anymore? And I collect coins from everywhere to use, to get a paper or this and the other read anyway. But now with Britain leaving, and I guess it took somebody with her and he left somebody behind. And the European Union seemingly in all kinds of chaos", "with an economic recession. I don't believe it's just Britain, an economic recessions what's going on? Because what does that say for all of these other connections they've made and holdings they have in the Muslim world? Yeah. So again this is not really necessarily my turf but I spent a lot of time in Europe and I... It's funny I was working", "I did a graduate degree in London many years ago, and I spent some time working as a research assistant to a member of parliament right at the time when they were debating the EU. And it was really fascinating kind of moment in time because what was happening was Europe coming out of World War II recognized that there was a lot of problems with being individual states trying to compete", "states so you've Russia the US China well China was so you know somewhat underdeveloped back then but you know how does a England shorn of its colonies compete? How does it Germany, you know, shorn...well it lost its colonies many years ago but how does France shorn up its colonies without his colonies compete in a global environment particularly coming out of World War II where your economies are devastated. What happened", "a you know kind of going back to our liberalism narrative there was a liberal notion that the best way that you know that we can all develop together is by you know binding our societies and economies together. And that began with the formation of the trade in coal union where you know, that kind of create you know rebuilt all these society or rebuild these core economic activities in France and Germany in particular but bound them together so that", "so that economies were already very much intertwined, just coming right out of World War II. And that continued to develop and went from like the Coal and Trade Union to the European Common Market to the PEC, European Economic Community. And it finally got to a point where they formed a political structure to go along with the economic structure. And quite frankly, it comes back to this idea that they're stronger together than they are separately.", "if each individual had to compete with Russia, they'd be toast. But if they have a combined economy and in a combined policy and shared vision, you know, they're going to be that much more powerful operating the international community. And that was, and that vision really held true all the way through World War II or through the end of the Cold War. And it really kind of took it to the next level in the post-Cold War period in the era of globalization", "Now, one of the challenges and this goes back to your comment about enjoying the franc and the lira and you know pound is that once we once they've unified politically there's always question about and they have a common market and highly integrated economic structure. Do they also have a currency? And some time they did go on the euro and that seemed like a great idea", "but it wasn't because if you're going to have a common currency, you need to have the common monetary policy. In order to have economic and monetary policies, you really need to be able to have fiscal policy which means how much government is spending tax and spend. Each individual state does not want to give up control over its budget, but they want the benefits of the shared", "shared currency and the shared economic order. And so in some respects, the problem with the EU is it was only like one foot in, one foot out. It wasn't a complete union. They didn't go that extra step. When 2008 financial collapse happened, that translated into a sovereign debt crisis which is more detailed than we want to get into but the point is that it was at that moment that you had this economic crisis", "about how to deal with it, you know coming from Germany which had all the banks at one vision. People in Greece which had a lot of debt and different vision. I was in Greece I think in 2013 when there were protests in the streets and what they're protesting is not so much the government but they are protesting the German bankers. And those are kind of some of the underlying issues", "still in my opinion you know at the end of the day europe is still you know the underlying dynamics are haven't changed you're still going to be stronger together than you are separate and this is why brexit makes no sense in my mind it just makes no i mean i understand the politics of it yeah that's why it happened and the way i look at it is some people like um", "Boris Johnson was kind of pandering to this right wing base. But the other was not necessarily an indigenous other, it was the French and the Germans and the Europeans telling us what to do. And there are a lot of people who lived in Northern England and who actually should have made her total laborer their labor supporters but they voted for Boris Johnson", "They voted for Brexit. You know, it sounds much like an English version of some understandings, mine being totally naive, of federalism. We have states which want to don't want to most of the time because they want to enjoy the benefits of co-hearing because then they can get federal this that and the other but then it's like well only", "state no in my state we're not going to wear any masks you know well in my statement whoa so what happens to things like the law of commerce which enables us to move between stage problem is i did pay attention during this part and of course uh to move", "put you in jail. Yeah, so that is the crux of the matter which you just got at this idea of federalism and quite frankly these are human issues I mean it's a challenge in our society as well as in your society who actually has control? Are you going to delegate authority or decision-making power to Washington", "in Springfield or do you? And invariably, people prefer to have greater control. People want to have control of their own lives. So at least in this society, historically what we've done is we kind of differentiated different tasks if you will and certain areas of responsibility. And so coordinating economic policy is really done at the federal level and coordinating defense policy and foreign affairs is really", "Whereas, you know states are kind of manage their regulate their insurance industry and regulate X Y & Z. And they have different policies regarding environmental standards although there's also federal environmental standards but there are certain things that localities do Chicago has certain policies on part in the currency. So what happens at the local level really is kind", "local and there's under local control, and stuff that really affects the larger community or the national community is really regulated at the national level. Now what's been interesting in the last 20 years, or at least since the 1990s, as you now have this international dynamic, international banks, international trade, international commerce of various sorts but you don't have a robust regulatory structure", "structure for that. I mean, you've got the World Trade Organization which is kind of set up in some respects to provide the rules of the road, mediate disputes but there's no real regulatory structure for banking and so it's really still up to individual states to regulate their own banks and what happened is now you have all this offshore banking", "whatever, Panama. And now you've got illegal activity going on money laundering, whatever tax and there's just no regulatory structure to kind of deal with that. This is where I'm kind of tying the two conversations together but this is one of the reasons why people did vote for Brexit in the UK and actually I have a friend who voted for Brexit.", "But from his perspective, the globalization has not served his community well. They've seen a lot of loss of jobs, a lot manufacturing jobs that have gone overseas. In the same way they have up in Michigan and Illinois and Wisconsin and Ohio. And people know what their once was if you ever go to Lancaster used to be very, very...", "manufacturing base and yeah it's not there anymore because people have either lacked in transference of skills right or brought those skills up to snuff yeah or you can also look at another side of it that a lot of both federal policy in england as well as the uk is really catered", "So a lot of policy is really designed to help Wall Street. Right, everywhere, no matter what you call the street. But I want to stop this conversation because I want go to our wonderful election and I'm trying to decide if illiberal democracy is populism left versus right or", "if i don't know okay okay no this is a great question um i mean i totally know you i see where you're going with this so this actually again why i mean look i mean I find all of this stuff fascinating whether it's your you know there's you or brexit or i you know i'm a political junkie this is what i get paid to do i love this stuff", "People always talk about this election is most important in American history. And I kind of hate to say that, but this one really is. But it's fascinating because you're really getting a stark choice. In many respects, Donald Trump is a classic illiberal Democrat, small d-democrat. He wants to be Alexander Lutsenko.", "and I think that you know, we talk about these as mafia runs countries whether it's Tunisia under Ben Ali or Mubarak era or Lutsenko or Russia. But in some respects Trump really does have his background in New York and if all the reporting is correct he has ties with both Italian Mafia", "And I think that's kind of his mentality is that, you know, politics is smash mouth. It's just the will of the stronger and there's this, you do whatever it takes to win and you don't play by the rules consciously. But then you look at the other side of the coin and there is Biden and the Biden-Harris ticket", "kind of the Obama-Biden era, but they're a throwback to an earlier era where it's like no there are rules in the game and we all need not just protect the rules. We need to protect the institutions because this game is large. How can you even do that when he has made his claim to fame to demolish so many institutions but the roads to the institutions?", "Yeah. So this is where you, I mean, this is the issue. This is the problem. My fear is there's going to be an ugly election. It's going", "describing Biden as a godless man who's going to destroy the, you know. How would he know? He owns the Bible upside down. How does he know?! So this is just kind of foreshadowing of what's gonna come and particularly because Trump was doing so poorly in the polls that as we get closer to the election and stakes get higher I think he's gonna become more desperate. And I really kind of fear", "really kind of fear for, you know what's going to happen particularly, you Know the as you know that the current story or one of the stories have been covered in recent news cycles is the effort to suppress the postal service. You know, yeah, I'll try and put in charge a well, Yeah, basically if um, you kno if campaign contributor with no background in anything related to postal delivery but the whole point is he's,", "you know, the postal service and consciously slow down postal delivery. And one could only assume that this, you know the arguments made while we're trying to make it more efficient but I'm looking at this and I've seen, I've been in politics. I know dirty tricks when I see them. This is another way of suppressing vote. And so it's going to be an ugly campaign. But again for me there really is like two different choices", "choices? Are we going to go back to a rules-based order where, you know, we respect the institutions, we strengthen the institutions. Government is accountable to the population. We all not just abide by the rule of law but embrace the rule or law. Or are we going back to this kind of mafioso mentality of government is just the will of", "ourselves and enrich our friends and enrich", "taking up space and air over issues that didn't matter. Tell me how that works today? Well, so I think there's kind of two different sets of issues. One is personal and one's policy. If you look at the personal issue, I see this to Biden's credit that he took a former critic and brought her into the fold.", "a third dimension too there's just politics like i hate to say it this is what happens on in primary season um you know if you're you know, if you are out there on the stage with nine people I mean how do you get attention? Okay so you got to be the you know you got be outspoken and you know Senator Harris certainly was but then there's policy side. And I think that on one hand Biden has obviously forgiven her but I think the other side of it is a policy side that they're actually fairly close from a policy perspective", "you know perspective and uh and i think that she's probably a better fit with his policies than somebody like bernie sanders or elizabeth warren um so so there's there's a certain commonality and i i think also when you look at her i mean she's sharp i mean", "not only be able to kind of help him get elected, but I think she'll be a real asset when she comes into the job and she will be very much of a full partner in a way that Biden was a full with Obama. And then you know, that's important. That's really important. And he just talking about college or neighbor of mine the other day because we were talking about this and he's a journalist here in Chicago and he was just kinda saying God, I'm just so tired of amateur hour", "amateur hour. Just pick somebody who can govern, who's done something. Right, right. I think that will resonate with the American population. Well, I think what we'll do since you're our resident political contest is from here until November devote a little bit of your time to analyzing what we see and however it is they have debates", "how we can try to help the public, our listeners at least figure out what is happening here. What did happen there without waiting for the pundits who are on TV to tell us what happened because usually that's what they're doing is seeing us one way or the other it's like I didn't see what I just saw kind of thing so we will do that and our hour well our 55 minutes", "minutes or 15 minutes is up. And as usual, so much to cover and I will see you next time in a few weeks to pick your mind and brain some more and all those things that you keep talking about are not in your wheelhouse. Put them in your warehouse because they're not on mine either and Critical Talk is a program from Muslim Network TV which is a", "And I hope that you tomorrow evening and of course always with Professor Scott Hibbert. Thank you. All right, thank you." ]
amina_mccloud/Critical Talk with Prof_ Dr_ Aminah Al-Deen_0delubEUh0g&pp=ygUVQW1pbmFoIE1jQ2xvdWQgIGlzbGFt_1742895775.opus	[ "Good evening. This is Critical Talk with Professor Aminah Aldean. Please excuse my bad voice. I am happy to be interviewing, talking with, discussing with newer kids. I was an old school watcher of what was it called? The six veggie tails. Right.", "Right, VeggieTales. And after about 20 episodes they let us know that they were a Christian group. Allahu Akbar. And little things start after that to slip in so then I had to turn it off but nevertheless now I discovered more kids and all my short grandkids are involved. Alhamdulillah. I mean Asher", "Amin Asfar, tell us about yourself. Well, thank you so much for having me, Professor Amina. You know, when I was a kid growing up in Maple Grove, Minnesota, I used to love playing baseball. My mom, she'd come and she'd sit in the stands and she would cheer. But growing up Minneapolis, Minnesota or Maple Grove which is a suburb where there weren't very many Muslims or very much diversity", "friends would start to tease my mom. They made fun of my mom because of her hijab, her headscarf and look when I was 13 years old and I think like many 13 year olds in middle school, my goal was to fit it. And it was very difficult so I'm not proud of this but the reality was I began telling my mom to pick me up 15 minutes after my baseball games were finished because I didn't want anyone to see my mom, I didn'y want anyone", "years later, I remember when my sister Shireen had her first. This was about nine years ago. Now at that time Professor Amina there was a masjid that was being built in New York City it's called the Ground Zero Masjid and so much uproar and I thought to myself I don't want my niece to grow up not", "in her own skin and so that put us on a path to develop newer kids and alhamdulillah today um you know we have a team of you know 15 educators creatives researchers who are putting together this work and um you now we pray that allah puts baraka in it um and um it has been a labor", "to do with children's anything. I used to be, it's called mergers and acquisitions. So I used of like buying and selling companies and things like that. So the way the story goes, my brother, my older brother, Muhammad, he was at Harvard. He was at Howard University as a part of his MBA program. And in his MBA programme, what they ask you to do is they ask", "because we're passionate about it. And alhamdulillah, out of like a hundred different entries in their competition, they said that our idea was the best idea. So they gave us initial 5,000 bucks to get started as an award-winning thing. And you know, alhamdullilah with the support of my wife and the support", "Alhamdulillah, our work is now a reality. And so we offer a number of tools for families. Our primary tool is it's called an Akhlaq Building Program which is designed to help Muslim children between the ages of four and nine build not just confidence in their identity but also a genuine love for Allah Subhanahu wa ta'ala and the Quran.", "So why is it important for Muslim children to have these resources? You know, I honestly don't know. No, I'm kidding. Of course, of course, I have a perspective on this. So look, so what I would share with you is the following, right? We actually took a very academic approach towards solving this problem because the issue that I had, right, when I talked about my issue with baseball, that's when I was 13 years old, right. When we think about like an identity crisis. Yeah.", "crisis. A seven-year-old or a six-year old isn't bleaching their hair blonde and calling themselves Mo instead of Muhammad. That doesn't happen at a young age, that happens in perhaps middle school or high school or college or later on but what we know is that by the time a child is nine years old, a significant part of their lifelong identity has been established so the metaphor", "talks about this in the Quran too, and Sir Ibrahim. You know, if a tree has strong roots, right? That tree is really not going to be going anywhere and inshallah it'll bear good fruit. But if those roots are weak, well then, you know we hope and pray that they'll be able to survive a storm. And so for us, the focus on early childhood, right, is where we get the highest return on investment. If we as parents, as we as educators,", "build a strong foundation in faith, inshallah our belief is that it will pay off in dividends as those children grow up and become parts of our community. Well we know that most in the U.S., when kids go to public school there's evening and weekend religious school but with", "But with newer kids, they have the opportunity to do every evening. For kids who are not yet school ready, they can go. Yeah. And I mean look so here's what I would add right? What I would is two things. Number one is our goal is not any way shape or form to replace schooling or weekend Islamic school anything like that. Like Allahu Akbar there's a very important role", "important role that these institutions play within our community. And by the way, you know what the research shows is that, um, you", "to be a service to them. But what I would share is this, anytime you know, I think about my religious education, I thing about cough syrup because I feel like it was like going to Sunday school or reading a book about Islam. It was like medicine. It's something that I needed", "said, look, you need to read this. You need to do this is what you got to do, right? And this is sometimes our connotation with school and our goal from the outset was to say, look if that is the reason why kids are picking up our books then we have not been successful. We need to develop something that is genuinely kid friendly that when a boy or girl is going to sleep at night and is deciding which book they want to read before", "they genuinely enjoy it and it's fun. And so that's what we attempt to do. And even with our online programs, especially in a world now where gosh, everything is virtual and everything is distance learning, you know, with the class that we're doing right now, we're around the advice that Luqman, may Allah be pleased with him, provides feedback to his son as detailed in the Quran. Our goal is not for children to be like, oh,", "to be like, oh no. This is what I got to do. It's Thursday. No, we want kids to be looking forward to it. Let me hopefully let me see if I can share my screen. I want to show just a little bit, if you don't mind. Please, please do. Oh, I get a kick out of this. You would not believe", "Oh my goodness. The scariest trip I ever took was to San Antonio. Get ready, people. When I was 26 years old, my mom came to me and issued me an order. I said, Mom, what's that? She said, Amin, I need grandchildren. I'm not even married. Why don't you fix that?", "that. So when I was 26 years old, with my mom's help, I was introduced to a little lady named Sana. She happened to live in San Antonio. Now, I didn't visit Sana right away. I started by writing letters. I would take out a piece of paper and grab a pen and write a letter like, Dear Sana, it is a pleasure", "My name is Amin. My favorite color is blue. I love the Minnesota Vikings and lasagna. Thanks, Amin! P.S., on hot days sometimes I look up at the sun and I'm like, Sun! Ahhhh! And when I do that, I remember your name, Sana. That was a joke.", "I have also enclosed my resume for your father. This is hilarious. Sana and I wrote letters that way we could get to know each other, but a time came when I came to the conclusion that Sana was the person I wanted to get married to. Why? Because she was honest because she was trustworthy because she humble because she generous because she had a knack for writing children's books because she loved cooking lasagna because she love the Minnesota Vikings", "Minnesota Vikings. I mean, I should stop. My mom and dad said, Amin, it's time for you to meet Senna's parents. They lived in San Antonio. I remember going on the flight, getting ready to go and meet her parents. I thought to myself, oh man,", "Oh man, I really hope that they want me as a son. So I remember being on that airplane on my way from Minnesota to San Antonio thinking to myself, wow, well, I hope my shirt is good. Oh wow, I-I hope they don't serve burritos because I have the tendency to spill burritos on my shirt. Oh, I... I hope I smell good and I wore enough perfume! And when I finally landed in San Antonio", "on the doorbell. I remember clicking on, putting my finger on the doorknob and when I put my finger it went ding dong! And I met, I met Sanaa and her mom and her dad and the rest as they say is history. Now I know what you're thinking, you're", "marrying this son of what ended up happening to her? And the answer is yes, I did end up marrying her and she was amazing. And I'm still married to her today. And by the way, I thought I might share that story because I've been giving a little bit of grief about lasagna at home. And so I thought just showcase my sharing that story. But I love it. Today. Alhamdulillah. Well, and so I just want to add one more quick thing, right? Because people are like, well, what did that story have to do? So the second part of that story, that was", "I hope they like me and so today ladies and gentlemen boys and girls we are talking about that We're talking about our appearance. We have to stop Please", "Is there on your screen, if you were sharing your screen is there a way to just pause it on the screen? As-salamu alaykum ladies and gentlemen boys and girls today inshallah we are going to be talking about a subject called loneliness but before I There we go Perfect", "So let me just add a little bit of context to that, right? So context number one is saying that.", "Because we as Muslims want to ensure that we are kind of putting our best foot forward, right? When we are meeting individuals. That we want to, as Muslims, look beautiful and to beautify ourselves and to be clean. And so in that story I was trying to articulate and what I was connecting it to is saying, hey, I was meeting important people. And because I was meetings important people, I wanted to look good. I wanted the smell good.", "And so... Let me tell you this. Please. I got that, but you know what I got before that? Please. As soon as you tap on your phone is the importance of composing and writing a letter which people don't do anymore and having a postscript You see? Yeah. To get kids to understand", "kids to understand that there are various ways of communicating and to write a letter means you really have to stop and think about it. What am I going to say? Is my penmanship okay? How am I gonna get it to the person? Oh, my God! I gotta use mail. Use... A hundred percent. Somebody tall enough to reach the postman.", "Yeah, 100%, 100%. And what I would share as well is we do a teacher training. It's interesting because what we try to do as much as possible is again use research in our approach towards education.", "in that segment and what you heard, uh, what you would hear in most of the Newark kids work is, um, we draw on personal stories like me as a teacher. I draw on person situations in my life and I share that now, what that does is two things. Number one", "hypothetical situation. No, I'm being a human being and as teachers for example or as parents one of the best ways that we can teach is by being a role model and so our goal then is through these videos and through these programs is to try", "religion, something that is not relatable. Like it's in our life. It's something that we deal with on a daily basis. So that's what we attempt to do. Is it possible like VeggieTales for example to make these wonderful concepts available to kids of other faiths? So this very interesting question and the answer is yes but with an asterisk next to it.", "next to it. Okay. So we have been working on a really interesting effort related to animated videos, similar to VeggieTales. And as a part of that, we had the opportunity to work with just so many advisors around that process and so many people said, you know what I mean? These stories that you're talking about, our curriculum, majority of our curriculum has to do with akhlaa character, things like honesty and patience and trust and altruism.", "And a big part of it has to do with global citizenship, our commitment to the environment, our", "goal. And there's different organizations that have different purposes, but for us, you know, I'm trying to solve a very specific problem. It's a problem that I had and it is for Muslim children. I want the children to use our resources to become proud in who they are and to build a foundational understanding of their faith. Now that said, um, you", "profit, peace and blessings be on him. And what we have found is that there are many like-minded Christians and Jews who benefit from our work because they see God in our work as well. And so they benefit from it. And we welcome that. We're excited for that. But we don't actively try to change our work such that it becomes more palatable for people who are not Muslims.", "who are not Muslims. Well, palatable but useful. Yeah. All moral lessons and for many of us who are nonethnocentric we have kids of all faiths inside our families. Right. Yeah And Alhamdulillah it's been amazing to see that so a couple the stories that we've observed right? So look we you know we at Alhamdullilah Newer Kids we serve about 10 000 families", "families. One of the biggest things I've learned, Professor Amina is the diversity that exists within the Muslim community. Diversity in terms of look sometimes we confuse to think oh all Muslim kids have a mom and a dad well no there's many divorced families and we have to make sure that we are serving them you know we might assume that and oftentimes what will happen what we've experienced", "And so what we've discovered is that our work becomes even more valuable for that home because, you know, it's interesting. Because if someone were to pick up a textbook that says Islam 101, I mean, that takes a lot of thought and concentration to say, okay, I'm going to pick this book Islam 101. But as someone who may not identify as being Muslim to see a children's book and to read that children's", "in these hospitals, you know, look for resources that will connect with children and faith-based content as well. And so what ended up happening was is we'll get emails from people who are non-Muslim and who read our work and say, wow, like this is very similar to my own belief. And we really appreciate that. Yeah. Well, recently here in Chicagoland,", "powers that be decided that children must learn about LBT, no I'm gonna mess this up the alphabet proof. And how can parents give their children the necessary resources to understand what they're being forced to learn?", "This is a great question and I want to share my thoughts on this. And I also wanna respect the fact that, I am not the subject matter expert on this specific topic, right? But that said, I wanna share a couple of notes. Note number one is that this is not a problem that is only being experienced in Chicago. This is you know, in Canada so about three years ago", "landmark kind of situation wherein, yes in elementary school the discussion of same-sex marriage and the introduction of literature that makes same sex marriage a common element among the experience of children is something that is actually part of the curriculum. So what communities", "And parents, the playbook that they used was one where number one, there began an increased investment into Islamic schools and into homeschooling.", "community is where the community invests into these resources. And they need to be invested into, and here's why. You know, a private full-time Islamic school, I mean it doesn't receive any government funding. It is completely funded by people and through charitable gifts. And so therein lies a little bit of a challenge because if a parent is thinking okay well I want my child to get you know high quality academic secular education", "education, but I also want them to get a high quality theological education. You know, I would love to be able to provide that through a full-time Islamic school. Well, unfortunately because many of these institutions don't get enough funding you know, parents are forced with the decision, you know do I stay at the public school? That is very high performing, but perhaps they're going", "or do I expose them to, or include them in a full-time Islamic school where perhaps they'll get the theological background that I'm really excited about. But you know, in terms of, you know the quality of the education it isn't where I'm comfortable with. So anyways, moral of the story is a couple of things. Number one, what I would share is this communicates the importance of us investing into these resources because they are critical.", "that is available and that I think a lot of parents haven't seriously thought about is homeschooling. And the travel that we've done in Toronto, in Dallas, in places like Tampa Bay, in San Jose, the resources that are available for homeschoolING are so incredible now. In fact even with my own daughter", "you know, it is a little bit of, uh, you know. It's unique, you parents have to make that decision. It s not easy right? So for husband and wife or family however the family might be structured, um, that is a serious investment to invest in. But also what the pandemic has taught us his parents are reassessing how much they like their kids. I'm not a teacher and oh my God!", "departmentalization that a child needs for structure during a day. You know, and here's what I'd say, right? And of course different strokes for different folks and appreciating diversity within the community. And of there's also financial element here too because some parents need to work and that's reality of it. We're framing this conversation around a specific issue that is LGBT. I want to take a step back and I want", "sidebar. When we talk about the first nine years of a child's life and the fact that during these first nine year,s that is when a child is establishing their identity and that is where you know we have the highest return on investment. The single most important variable Professor Amina that impacts a child s understanding", "And this is research that was done in the United States, replicated in Europe, replicated Southeast Asia, replicated Africa. So this is like you know in terms of theory with respect to education this is at a very high level or people strongly believe in this. The single most important variable that impacts a child's understanding of who they are it's not where they go to school, it's", "that child has with their mom or their dad, the relationship a child has what their parents at a young age. Now this is actually really interesting because there's so much conversation that often happens around schooling and where I decided to have my kids go. A lot of families are really focused on extracurriculars. Oh man,", "an ex and if they don't get involved in x then they're not going to go to Harvard. And if they do, what are they? Not going to be successful. This is how Muslim people are thinking. And we have to reframe the discussion because during these first nine years, The most valuable investment a mom or a dad can make is that quality time, that loving time. You can work, you can eat and you have no time.", "right you're a hundred percent right so you know of course you know there are restrictions and if families can't provide that then you know the it is what it is but um you know for families that can provide it but elect not to right? And that's fine, right again different strokes for different folks. Right? There's there's different situations. Um what I'm highlighting is in even by the way even by The Way If a child attends public school or if a child attend weekends or full-time Islamic school It doesn't absolve the parent of quality time", "time, right? Like either way even if the children are involved in these um The moral of the story is quality time. Quality time. Yeah but that's why I was asked with this issue in particular and as many religious communities have risen up here, NORKIDS provides an excellent platform to give the kids a way to understand what they're being taught and not to shun", "to bully, not to do any of those things but a way to interpret the information that's coming in. Yeah and Alhamdulillah we do our best now again our focus is on ages 9 and younger and so you know we 3rd grade? 4th grade? Yes so 9 would be 3rd right 9 would", "to serve and to make difficult concepts relatable, and at a child's level. So for example with respect of Black Lives Matter and the conversation on racism even within the Muslim community we've actually created specific content for that with respect to COVID-19. We actually created", "idea of internalizing this idea of what's going on. And it was a 10-part course where we explored everything from death to the idea of cleanliness, to the", "But where we are not equipped, you know, we try to stay in our lane. And I will say, you with this conversation with the LGBT, you now, this is not a conversation that we have addressed head on. A part of it is, you we're not equipped to do it just yet. We're just not. Okay. How do you plan to expand your resources?", "Well, we plan on expanding our resources in a couple of ways. One is geographically. So for a long time, New York Kids has only been available in the U.S. and Canada. And alhamdulillah, we have developed a partnership with a really great Muslim organization based in Iowa that has allowed us to make it available across the world. That's been a big deal. Very big deal! Yeah, alhamdullilah. Alhamdulilah.", "on right now are a couple of things. One is we're working on this project related to animated video, and I'm really excited about it. We're aiming for this. We'll shoot for the stars in the same way that VeggieTales was able to connect with people like Netflix to make it available across the world. That's what we're trying to do. Number two is with respect to supporting weekend and full-time Islamic schools, you know, this 2020 year is not going to be easy. It's gonna be challenging but we are all in it together", "all in it together. So, you know, we are trying our best to develop solutions that teachers can use and benefit from. And then finally, thinking more about how do we connect with families online? So by creating online classes. So like I mentioned right now every member of Noor Kids has the opportunity to join a online camp that we're doing over the summer months.", "Can you stop and say more about the online camp, how they can join when it starts? Yes. Well, I'm glad you asked. So when I was a kid, 100 years ago, my family was Allahu Akbar amazing. And during the summer months, that was my time to memorize the Quran.", "the Quran. That was my time to learn, you know, how to read the Quran but I never actually built a genuine connection with it in that I never really began to look at the Quran as like a resource like wow this is like a guide for my life so this summer what our goal is is to help children build a genuine relationship", "doing that is we are um doing a 10 week in-depth discussion on the advice that Luqman al-Hakim you know the wise gives to his son as detailed in the Quran so we're basically reading the Quran and we're looking at these specific advice that look man has given to a son and we've looked at um you know uh commentators", "discussing these and incorporating into our life. Now, what's fascinating? I mean it's so fast because Professor Omni if I were to ask you right, you said you have grandchildren. Too many. If you were to like summarize right, if you were say hey grandchild this is my advice to you. It's a pretty exciting concept. Yeah thank you. And so look man, I mean think about it he gave 10 pieces of advice", "These 10 pieces of advice were so profound that this man who's not even a prophet, not even A Prophet Allah Subhanahu Wa Ta'ala honors him by saying I'm including this advice in the Quran for people to read over and over and Over again you know until the end of times. And so the way it works is every Thursday There is an actual class okay? And there's like two parts of the class and children are able to watch it on demand meaning at their own convenience and the reason why we do that is because", "is because Alhamdulillah, we have people in the UK and people in Qatar and people Saudi. And of course people in US and Canada but they have to be able to watch a class at their own convenience so they're able to it. And in the class we detail this then over the weekend they have a challenge. So what challenges like a hands-on project that we challenged them to do and by Sunday they upload it once they upload It's amazing because Dr. Amna you can see all", "All of the kids from around the world. So it creates a little community. I'm excited. When does this start? It actually has started, right? Because it's July 21st, right? Can they still sign up? They can still signup and Alhamdulillah we've made it very affordable. So basically if you become a member of the Newark Kids Ahlulq building program, you get it for free. So if you just go to newarkkids.com A four month membership is about 30 bucks. Cheap! Yeah, alhamdulilah", "It's about 30 bucks. And so you get a new book delivered to your home every month, right? That's our primary program. But then in addition, you get the online resources for free. So we try to make it as accessible as possible. And if families can't afford that, send us an email and we'll provide it as free of charge. I mean, we want people to buy our books. What week are we in now? We just started week four. Four? Yep, week four, week 4 of week 10. So you still have six weeks left. OK.", "Okay, so I'm a parent. I just learned about this today. Where do I need to go in the Quran to do the first three pieces of guidance? Yeah, so if you join the class, what's interesting is you can actually see week one, week two, week three. So literally they can, if they access the class they'll be able to see it.", "begins providing to his child. I believe it starts on the 14th verse and, and it's fascinating. I mean, I could talk about it at length. It's so fascinating. And I am just floored by the fact that you all came up with this. I", "piece of advice that Luqman gives to his son is he tells his son, he says, son, you know, worship Allah Subh'anaHu Wa Ta-A'la and only worship Allah subhanahu wa ta-ala. Right? Polytheism, shirk, is a great injustice. Now we're talking with four to nine year old children. How in the world are we going to communicate? What does this even mean to like,", "mean to like polytheism? What does that even mean? So here's the idea, right? Shirk, the concept here is to worship anything other than Allah subhanahu wa ta'ala. Right now when we think about worship oftentimes what comes to our mind is literally like salah and when we", "Anything other than Allah. And most often that means worshiping myself and, you know, whatever obeying my own rules not the rules of Allah I'm just going to obey my own rule or instead of obeying the rules Of Allah obeying The Rules of Other People right so for most people So how do we teach this? How do we Teach This? Okay Dr. Ahmed are you familiar with a Tesla? Yes", "Okay. So I discovered... I don't have one. I don' t have one either. I do not know if, inshallah, you know? But anyway so Tesla created a Tesla Power Wheels. So you know power wheels like it's like a miniature okay so this Dr Amina is amazing! It's literally made of metal. It has lights that actually work. It's got like a charger just like the Tesla Charger. It", "So now if you imagine, Dr. Amina, if someone gave you – if you got one of these, how would you want to use it? Now there's a couple of ways that you might use it. One way you might us it is to say, hey, you know what? I got this as a gift. I'm going to use the way I want to do it. I want To use it so what I would do is right out of the box, there's little bit of charge. I would put the keys in ignition and turn on and take for drive because that's what I'd do but here's the issue with that.", "Because I literally don't know better.", "that Tesla because you don't even know better. Well, what's another thing you could do? You could use that Tesla the way that other people want you to use it. And you're like, well, what does that mean? What I mean is YouTube. If you go on YouTube and we actually showed in the class, the very first video of any person using the Tesla, the one that has the most views is not of a kid riding the Tesla. It's just someone taking the Tesla and throwing it off of a cliff to see what would happen", "views. That's when you follow the rules of other people, right? You end up doing things that are just inappropriate. So now as we think about ourselves, now we don't have a Tesla but Allah subhanahu wa ta'ala has given each of us a body and a soul. Now the question is how do we want to use it? Do we want", "Just like you didn't create the Tesla and you could have messed it up by just following your own rules, we didn't actually create our own selves. And if I just follow my own whims, I mean, I could ruin myself. Like I could unknowingly make mistakes that could really tarnish my soul. If I use my body and my soul and my life in a way to please other people, well, in the same way that that Tesla, when people use that to get likes", "to get likes and views, if I lead my life in that way, well, that could lead to my destruction as well. Really the best way to use it is to read the instruction manual and to see what the instruction says and live our life based on that. And that instruction manual is the Quran and the life of our prophet. I'm loving it. Loving it people out there sign up. Well, anyways, I, it's like for me, it", "It's like I get really excited about, you know, taking an idea that again as a kid when I was in Sunday school. You know someone says last year, you don't do shirk and this is injustice. You it was a conversation oh yeah don't worship idols but come on it's much more than that. Yes absolutely. Last question.", "Five of my grandkids, well their parents rather have signed up for NORKids. The things I appreciate is the diversity. Lots of times they're animals but other times the kids don't get so focused on some other things about race while they're trying to learn a lesson. So have you any plans", "inside the Muslim community? Man, that is an amazing question. There are so many thoughts that come to mind. I want to share three of them. Okay. Number one, it is so unfortunate that today in Muslim children's literature,", "And the reality is, is that even the majority of Muslims in the world don't have white faces. You know, it's just you know, we've idolized this ethnicity that we don't even embody. I mean, talk about internalized oppression. Come on, you know? And so we specifically made the decision to make our characters animals.", "because inevitably then they do not have race. And as a result, children of any sort of ethnic background could identify with these characters. So we did that very purposefully. Now number two, when we think about diversity, there is of course ethnic diversity. But even outside of ethnic diversity,", "mom and dad are not together. And this is real, this is the reality of our community. But then there's other forms of diversity as well even in terms of religious diversity right? So you know not all Muslim women decide to observe hijab right now that said we have to make editorial decisions to say well what does that mean and how do we ensure that these children are also brought into the work that", "Muslim war can kind of alienate people who aren't in the first row of Salah. And that's, you know, we have to make our tent a little bit bigger to include everyone. So we try to make educated decisions as often as we can with the consultation of our scholarly advisors.", "Sheikh Rizwan Arastu. So even a diversity of shayyuh who, you know, we get advice on to say, hey, how might we tackle this issue? Now that said, we published a book called two books. One book was called Different by Design where we talk about diversity pretty head-on and this idea where Allah subhanahu wa ta'ala says in the Quran that I've made you from different nations and tribes such that you may get to know one another. It's an amazing title", "an amazing title and it exists. There's another one that is called Getting Along for Good, which talks about this concept of unity. Can I ask you to give me the titles of those books again? Yes. Everybody to know them. Different by Design. And then the second one is called", "is a title that talks about unity within the Muslim community. And again, first we have mashallah very privileged opportunity to at a young age introduce these concepts to our children and you know that is something that is really I think exciting because", "unfortunately as a community, especially when it gets into the politics of a masjid and all the grown-up kind of problems. There is so much unfortunate disunity even within the Muslim community that I'm very proud that we've been able to tackle this subject in a really robust way. Well you've given me more energy than I usually have about this topic", "about this during the day. And I am so excited because when I first got an email about North kids, yes and sign you know call my daughter in law get it called my other daughter in love get it, you know? And we've been extremely pleased Dr. Amina that means so much now the kids look forward to that book arriving. It really means so", "telling you know you you all have done in such a short time an exemplary job it you know i'll tell you um allah subhanahu wa ta'ala says and you know hadith quidsi he says you know take one step towards me and i'll take ten towards you walk towards me, and I'll come towards you with speed. And so Allah has certainly honored us and helped us and also um you know on PBS it's like made possible because of viewers like you", "That is like so true. Dr. Amina, we have a team of 15 people. We have actual Islamic researchers. Our writers are writers who also write for Hughton Mifflin and Simon & Schuster. So we have to pay them, right? And so literally this effort is only possible because of people who support it.", "And, you know, we don't ask for a lot. Thirty bucks for four months. Right. And free shipping. Right? So we try to make it as affordable as possible. But these works and not just Newark kids, there's so many amazing Muslim children's literature and work. And what families have to understand is that it is possible when we invest into it.", "But I would encourage parents to say, look these are investments and invest into your child. And in the first nine years there's not gonna be a higher return on investment during any other age group. I think you're absolutely right. This is Critical Talk with Professor Amin Al-Din and I mean us here and I have had a delicious time.", "back there on that shelf. Inshallah, and I want everything on the... I don't even know what's on the back shelf out there but I'm excited. I'm going to line it up in my study. I hope our viewing audience has understood that all of these shows are made possible by Muslim Network TV which we are hoping that everybody including your kids supports", "that I will be talking with you again. Insha'Allah, insha'allah and I pray that Allah subhanahu wa ta'ala puts barakah on your efforts and also put the barakah in the efforts of Sound Vision. You know one of the things that I recognize personally and um you know i think about this in many ways you know so my story is my mom five years ago she passed away when she passed a way I was like you know what I want to do for our kids is a way for me to do Sadaqah Jariyah and I think about impact not just from people who actually read", "I think about impact in terms of, hey, if we can inspire other creatives to do great work, then yeah, that's a good deed in my piggy bank too. And Sound Vision is one of those organizations that inspired us to believe and to think about the possibilities of what we can do. And in Sound Vision, Mashallah has been a pioneer in so many ways. And I hope and I pray that we with New York Kids", "vision and find new ways and efforts, um, and do a better job of supporting some vision as well. Thank you so much. And I'm going to give my slums Salaam alaikum and peace to our listening audience. And we will be back." ]
amina_mccloud/Dr_ Aminah Beverly McCloud _ Wanita Islam adalah a__1742899495.opus	[ "Wanita Islam adalah agen perubahan yang mampu mengatasi stereotip dan mempromosikan persatuan dalam keragaman." ]
amina_mccloud/Gender dan Islam Perspektif Leila Ahmed dan Amina _LLzF3RA4JOI&pp=ygURQW1pbmEgV2FkdWQgaXNsYW3SBwkJvQCDtaTen9Q%3D_1742922989.opus	[ "Surah ini kita di forum online kajian gender. Kita akan membicarakan tema dari kedua tokoh postmodern yang berasal dari Mesir dan Amerika,", "yaitu Laila Ahmed dan Amina Wadud, yang nanti akan disampaikan lebih jelas lagi oleh presenter kita bertiga. Sebelum kami mempersilahkan waktu untuk presenter,", "dibahas biasanya di kelas kuliah pasca gender disini dialah kestaraan gender itu bukan tentang jenis kelamin yang dipicarakan bukan tentang laki-laki dan perempuan tapi kesteraan gender yaitu tentang hak seorang", "tampil ke publik, untuk pendidikan, untuk menjadi pemimpin bahkan dia memiliki kesempatan yang sama. Memiliki hak yang sama, memilki hak yang setara dengan kaum laki-laki. Pokok-pokok gender dalam Islam pada umumnya lahir di Timur Tengah seperti di Maroko, di Mesir memang dengan latar sosial budaya mereka", "mereka kebanyakan yaitu menganggap bahwasanya teks Al-Quran dan hadis-hadis misoginis yang ditafsirkan oleh ulama salaf, ulama utakodimin perlu adanya pemahaman lagi di era yang lebih modern seperti sekarang ini untuk kaum perempuan", "Di samping itu gejala sosial di Timur Tengah pada waktu itu juga adanya latar belakang penjajahan dan semacamnya dari negara-negara Inggris dan negara Eropa.", "lebih membumi, lebih maju dan lebih sesuai dengan realitas. Kembali lagi kepada Mina Wadud dan Leila Ahmed maka akan disampaikan oleh presenter kita pada kesempatan hari ini kemudian waktu waktunya setiap presenter memiliki kesembatan", "15 atau maksimal sampai 20 cukup ya. Nanti setengah kesempatannya, setengahlah waktunya kita isi dengan beberapa forum pertanyaan dari audiens, dari para pendengar. Oke untuk mempersingkat waktu kami persilahkan kepada moderator", "pemaparan materinya pada sore ini, kami persilahkan siapa yang akan menjelaskan terlebih dahulu. Nanti langsung disampaikan secara estafet ya, bergantian presenter satu dan presenter berikutnya. Monggo, Mbak Azmi, Mas Safi, dan Mas Fawaz, siapa Yang akan lebih dulu menjelas?", "Mohon maaf sebelumnya, apakah share screen saya sudah terlihat? Sudah. Baik, terima kasih yang saya hormati kepada Ibu Dr. Isyadeh dan juga Bu Dr. Jamila.", "dosen pengampu mata kuliah gender dan Islam, serta kepada moderator yang telah mempersilahkan saya untuk mempresentasikan materi pada sore hari ini, serto kepada teman-teman sekalian yang telahan berkenaan hadir dalam kesempatan sore hari. Baik, pada sore harini saya dan teman saya akan menjelaskan tentang Gender dan Islam perspektif Laila Ahmad dan Amina Wadud", "Untuk yang pertama, disini saya akan menjelaskan tentang Amina Wadud Mohsin. Beliau adalah seorang teolog feminis dan juga ahli agama Islam. Beliu dilahirkan pada tanggal 25 September 1952 di Amerika. Meskipun beliulahirakan di Amerika, beliau merupakan keturunan Afrika juga.", "Dan pada saat itu, kondisi ketika beliau merupakan seorang non-muslim dan ayahnya adalah pendeta yang taat. Hingga pada tahun 1972, beliau menjadi mu'alaf dengan latar belakang masyarakat di sekitarnya.", "sedang mengalami pergolakan superior kulit putih. Dalam kata lain, mengagumkan atau meninggikan derajat kulit butuh dari bandingkan kulit yang lebih gelap. Selain itu, kondisi masyarakat juga mengagungkan hal-hal materialistis dengan kata lagi mendiskriminasi orang-orang yang dengan taraf ekonomi yang kurang.", "Dari latar belakang tersebut, di lingkungan masyarakat mereka terjadilah yang dinamakan diskriminasi perempuan dan ketimpangan gender. Diskriminasi perpuan dan ketinggian jenderal menimbulkan keterpurukan perepuan di segala bidang dari segi lingkungannya", "Setelah beliau menjadi mu'alaf, beliau merasa heran mengapa ternyata setelah berjadi muslim perempuan justru termarjinalkan. Dari situ timbul kegelisahan akademik dan beliau berusaha menelusurinya dan menurut beliau hal tersebut timbul akibat daripada penafsiran dan pemikiran ulama yang cenderung memarjinakan perepuan", "jenis kelamin kedua. Sehingga dari latar belakang tersebut, beliau mencetuskan atau menggaungkan apa yang dinamakan sebagai zihat gender. Ada pun tentang pemikiran selanjutnya terkait Amina Wadud akan dijelaskan oleh saudara kita Muhammad Safiullah. Terima kasih. Baik, saya ambil alih.", "Saya ambil lali. Suara saya kedengeran ya? Iya, iya kedengaran. Assalamualaikum warahmatullahi wabarakatuh. Waalaikumsalam warahmati Allah. Terima kasih atas waktunya Bapak moderator. Pada sehari ini saya selaku pembicara presenter kedua.", "selaku presenter kedua akan menjelaskan bagaimana kemudian Aminah Wadud itu memiliki pemikiran terkait benda itu sendiri dari sini kemudia sudah jelaskam tadi terkai tentang latar belakang kenapa kemudien Aminoh wadud", "dijelaskan oleh presenter pertama jadi sekarang saya akan menggali atau menjelaskanku tentang pemikiran beliau kenapa kemudian admin hotdisk itu bisa memiliki peningkat seperti ini itu Hai eh timbul atau bermuara dari metode hermotika yang terlalu telah apa ya dan telah", "dijelaskan oleh Fadlur Rahman dan Khalid Abu Elfad. Jadi Aminah Waduh ini mengacu terhadap dua tokoh kontemporer ini sehingga kemudian bisa melahirkan penaksiran-penaksiran yang inovatif dan kreatif, yang itu selaras dengan zaman sekarang.", "zaman sekarang. Menurut Aminah Wadud itu sendiri, antara laki-laki dan perempuan itu sama posisinya di hadapan Allah SWT. Sehingga kemudian ketika ada diskriminasi terhadap kaum wanita maka Aminahl Wadu disini", "Aminah Wadud di sini tidak menerima hal itu sehingga kemudian memunculkan pemikiran-pemikiran seperti ini. Contoh, salah satu contoh yang konkret yang kemudahan Aminat Wadid itu menjelaskan", "Di situ dijelaskan, dalam mini draft itu dijelarkan bahwasannya tidak selamanya wanita itu mendapatkan lebih sedikit dari bagian laki-laki.", "Maksudnya ini dari pemahaman mufassirin, dari tafsir yang ditafsirkan oleh mufasirin itu maka Aminah Wadud ini sedikit memberikan penafsiran bahwa", "dalam suatu waktu antara laki-laki dan perempuan itu harus ya harus sama dengan dengan dengan laki laki gitu loh menjadi jadi seperti itu anjir selesai lanjutnya Hai adalah pemikiran Aminah wadud itu sendiri maka mengerti kau", "itu memunculkan reformasi sosial bagi kaum perempuan. Di situ ada relasi gender antara keadilan dalam sosial dan kesetaraan gender. Adil dan setara itu hal-hal yang kemudian perlu kita pahami,", "Tidak selamanya keadilan setara itu adil dan tidak selamnya adil itu setara. Contoh seperti ini, contoh ketika kita memiliki dua orang teman antara laki-laki dan perempuan atau katakanlah di sini kita mempunyai anak maka kita memberikan suatu hal kebutuhan itu", "hal kebutuhan itu tidak harus sama dengan apa yang kita akan berikan kepada dua anak ini. Dalam artian, kita memberikan hak yang seharusnya dikutukan oleh dua anak ininya. Seperti itu. Itu tentang masalah keadilan. Keadilan itu sudah dijelaskan dalam agama Islam bahwa seperti ini, seperti ini. Terkait dengan kestaraan, maka dalam hal ini", "setaraan gender itu yang setara itu sebenarnya apa? Nah maka dari ini, yang setera itu menurut Aminah Hudud, itu waktu atau peluang bagaimana perempuan itu antara perembuan dan laki-laki itu tidak dibatasi. Misalkan peremuan itu mau berkarir di bidang politik,", "seperti itu. Jadi kalau laki-laki bisa berkarir di bidang politik, maka perempuan juga harus bisa berkarya di bidangan politik. Seperti itu.", "dan saya kembalikan lagi kepada pembicara persenter ketiga. Ini langsung saya mulai Mas Obi. Oke, baik. Bismillahirrahmanirrahim. Assalamualaikum warahmatullahi wabarakatuh. Alhamdulillahi khairan adzim.", "di sini saya sebagai apa pelestori ya teman-teman mungkin lagi kemudian mungkin temen-temen yang hadir disini saya berterima kasih banget sudah mensupport kami agar terus berkembang disini Saya akan sedikit mengelakkan kepada kalian atau mungkin bahkan kalau lebih kenal sosok Laila Ahmad ini tentang", "tentang bagaimana pemikiran beliau itu terkait feminisme, gender dan Islam. Nah sejujurnya saya itu untuk memahami beliau ini butuh waktu yang lama cuman waktu saya hanya satu hari, satu malam dan untuk memalmi seorang wanita dengan berbagai keilmuannya itu saya mencoba saja jadi teman-teman nanti bisa mengoreksi ada yang salah atau tidak", "Sebelumnya saya berterima kasih kepada ummi saya, seorang ibu yang telah melakukan saya. Saya juga berterimasi kepada teman-teman perempuan dan dosen-dosen perembuan saya. Inspirasi saya, karena apa? Saya nyatakan dengan Nabi Muhammad dulu ketika menerima wahyu ikhroq. Terus kata Nabi bilang, Ma'am Nabi Qari' ya Jibril, saya itu nggak bisa baca. Kamu suruh baca, saya nggak usah baca", "Memang sosok perempuan itu ada privilege tertentu di bagian perhatian. Kasih sayang, seperti itu. Lanjut teman-teman. Mohon maaf ya ini mungkin sedikit melebar. Nggak apa-apa. Lanitnya pemikiran Layla Ahmed. Di sini saya memang misalkan pemikirannya itu keren, cukup keren. Beliau itu seperti ini Pak. Sebelum saya mendahaskan sedikit historisnya. Belia berpikiran seperti ini. Ketika seorang ulama, ketika se orang ufasir itu", "itu memiliki otoritas untuk menafsirkan, memahamkan suatu ajaran agama. Mengapa seorang muslima tidak bisa melakukan seperti hal itu? Ketika kita memahami penafsiran-penafsiren dari klasik mungkin ya, dari klinik klasis itu ketika kita membaca memang sedikit mengelitik di hati gitu loh bos. Gitu teman-teman maksudnya mengeliti di hatinya kenapa? Karena ketika seorang perempuan membaca kok penafsilannya seperti ini? Apakah memang", "Atau kalau memang kanjangan Nabi Muhammad SAW itu seperti ini, bilangnya. Asbabul Wurud mungkin. Asbahbul Nuzlan seperti ini. Cuman pada waktu itu sehingga seorang perempuan agama Islam ini membatasi. Mungkin ini pemikiran seorang peremuannya. Bukan Al-Quran yang salah. Akhirnya muncullah teman-teman mungkin kalau teman tersebut pasti tahu ada juga dari kemenang tafsir kedudukan perembuan ada. Ada tafsiri kebijian juga ada.", "Memang beberapa tafsir klasik yang mungkin kiranya itu kurang relevan atau penyampaiannya tidak selunak. Ya itulah. Itu, Raya Ahmad dan Raya Jendral itu kenapa ketika seorang ulama bisa menyampaikan hal yang sama, kenapa saya seorang perempuan tidak bisa menyampai? Nah, itu. Ini juga saya gambarkan di pendanggulan saya, di pekor saya ini bahwasannya jangan memandang seorang perpon itu dengan hal yang buruk. Kenapa?", "Kenapa? Bahwasannya disini ada, saya mengutip perkataan Lyle Austin. Dia berkata, mengatakan bahwa aku nggak tahu. Nggak tahu dijiptakannya perempuan itu buat apa, nggak tahu dia berpikir atau mungkin dijiptakan seorang perwan itu hanya untuk melahirkan saja. Terus juga yang agama Yahudi itu juga menganggap seorang perembuan itu dianggab yang ngamutan", "banyak teman-teman udah tahu di Islam juga seperti itu cuman loh siapa yang tetap salah makanya tidak bisa wajah ya itulah itu pemikiran-pemikiran yang salah lanjut beliau ini lelah Ahmad memang dalam penyampaiannya itu berbeda dari", "Karena metode yang dia gunakan adalah secara apa ya? Lugas. Lugis, kayak saya mungkin ya. Ligus gitu. Comprehensive. Terus beliau memandang ketimbangan gender itu harus dinilai pertama kali memang dari akarnya. Dari akarnya seperti itu. Next. Ini juga langsung eh, sebelum-sebelum nggak? Yang mungkin saya terlalu melebah dia. Beliau ini juga lahir di Ilekungan dengan beliau lahir ke Mesir", "lahir di Mesir, di daerah beliau lahir dia era heliopolis bahasanya itu kayak malang pinggiran munculnya di muslim pinggirannya di daera kota Cairo Mesir beliau itu ayahnya itu seorang mesir asli ya sama terakhir intelektual", "Kalau ibunya itu orang Turki, terus keilmuannya orang Turku kan udah kita ketahui ya. Ya perekonomiannya tuh high class lah rasanya. High class gitu lah. Akhirnya lahirlah Layla Ahmed ini di lingkungan yang... Musyad kan Islam loh. Ternyata musyad di daerah tadi itu orang-orangnya tidak berkeludung. Lahir di lingkup kadang masyarakat wanita tanpa hijab. Ya budayanya pada waktu itu lingkungannya tidak memakai hijab", "pakai hijab cuman menanamkan ilmu-ilmu keislaman tetap mungkin secara sosial secara pribadi kepada Tuhan itu tetap jam atau begitu memang budayanya tidak sampai orang-orangnya umumnya tidak memakai hijab lanjut akhirnya beliau itu juga hidup di masa peperangan", "makanya itu saya sebutkan mempengaruhi pemikirannya Laila Ahmed, lena liberal dari aristokraksi Mesir di bawah sistem pemerintahan ancient regime maksudnya pada waktu itu Mesir dulu dijajak oleh Perancis dan apa teman-teman? Inggris maksud nya tentara kebijakan pemerinat tersebut itu mempngaruh secara pikiran itu ngaruh terus akhirnya beliau", "lanjut di Cambridge beliau itu memang pada waktu kecil memang pingin pulih dari luar negeri karena mungkin bosen ya di Mesir warlock cuman pada waktu itu ayahnya juga kontroversial ketika sama seorang presiden Nasr itu gak cocok karena kebijakannya akhirnya dipecat akhirnya keluarganya gak punya uang cuman mengumpulkan", "Dia mengumpulkan rezeki dan punya tekad itu sehingga dia bisa lanjut di Cambridge. Mulanya Laila Ahmad berpikiran karena di daerahnya, di desanya ada orang-orang penjajat. Berpikirannya keren mereka itu. Luas pandangannya terbuka. Oke lah lunak dan sebagainya. Wah saya misalkan saya ulian di luar negeri, bisa nih saya seperti mereka. Kira berangkatlah ke Cambridge. Waduh. Sampai di Cambridge berbeda.", "Berbeda 360 derajat. 360 deraja kenapa? Ketika dia masuk di ranah lingkungan yang dia inginkan, tidak seperti itu. Dia berpikiran mungkin orang-orang Barat bakal bisa menerima saya. Kalau saya juga enggak memakai hijab bahasanya, seperti mereka, gak semudah itu. Orang-orang barat itu menyampaikan bahwasannya, kamu siapa? Kamu bukan warga lokal, kamu orang Arab.", "kita bandingkan kapasitas pemikirannya, saya lebih modern bos. Akhirnya, kena lah rasisme. Lela Ahmad itu udah jauh-jauh dari musyid, kembali kena rasis. Akhinya, ya tapi beliau berkembang. Lanjut mbak. Mbak Semih. Ini nih. Hijab mendapatkan serutip daripada dantikan negatif. Emang bener? Mungkin teman-teman yang S2 sudah saya share ya mungkin.", "saya share ya mungkin bahwasanya Laila Ahmad itu ini terlalu, nggak terlalun mencoba berpikir bahasanya ini hijab ini di Mesir ini kok bisa enggak masih gitu kenapa gitu apakah karena memang budayanya belum sampai seperti itu apakah memang kita tuh tidak mau nah itu sedikit cerita bahwasannya orang-orang muslim itu nggak semua ya nggak semua mungkin didesaknya Lailah Ahmad mungkin lingkungannya saja ketika", "Ketika orang semakin berilmu ya. Dia itu mikir, saya itu masuk Islam agar bebas. Bukan bebas dalam artian los enggak. Tergantung saya mencapai seperti apa. Terhubung saya memanjakan satu hal itu seperti apa kan? Islam itu lunak dan sebagainya oke. Cuma ketika melihat satu ayat yang mungkin harus seperti ini bos. Harus seperti ini dalam sesuatu hal. Mereka nggak terima loh. Saya mau ini kok dikekang.", "ini kok dikekang contohnya hijab saya pengen beraktivitas di luar cuma harus memakai hijab pemikiran yang kesalahan seperti itu, yang patut kita kritisi bahwa padahal mendapat seseorang hijab itu mengurangi kapabilitas kita sebagai muslimah sebab itu akhirnya lama mikir banget kenapa ya singkat cerita", "itu dia menyampaikan di bukunya dengan historical telling story yang cukup keren ya itu Mesir itu itu perang banget perang terus juga politiknya iskandar politik yaitu keren cuman ini agennya kenapa seorang muslimah itu enggak pakai hijab Agila mungkin teman-teman tahu ada gerakan ikhwanul muslimin", "berjuang pada melakukan perjuangan melawan penjajahan itu Mesir melawan Israel singa cerita yang memang yang melakukan apa ya penghilangnya penjajaan itu orang-orang muslimin dan muslimah itu mikir kamu orang-orang Muslim tapi enggak memakai baju sesuai syariat akhirnya orang-", "Yes, muslimah. Berhijab. Yes, berhijablah. Akhirnya pada... Karena itu, karena peperangan itu akhirnya oh gitu ya, kok ternyata muslima itu harus gini? Beberapa orang memakai hijab di Mesir atau di situ. Akarnya jadi trend fashion lah. Trend fashion di universitas sepertinya seperti zaman sekarang. Biar sedikit, akhirnya semua orang ikut. Lanjut.", "Udah, itu udah. Masmi? Ini saya mungkin ya. Nah ini juga kajian tentang pemikiran Nella Ahmed mengapa kok kebangkitan hijab di Mesir di Eropa itu abad 20. Abad 19-18 mungkin. Beliau dalam arti bukunya ini", "awal abad 20. Kenapa adanya penolakan hijab dan pengasingan atau pemengitang? Dalam artian, ketika saya mengungkap hijab, saya dimajinalkan. Saya itu dibunyikan. Bukan hijabnya yang salah. Buka sikap memilih hijab yang salah, tapi kebijakannya diwujudkan oleh orang tersebut. Nah ini ada tentang peradaban barat juga sama tadi liberal terus penyebaran fenomena normalisasi melepas hijab", "pas hijab, itu juga memang terjadi di Mesir awal ke-20. Lanjut, karena rancunya permasalahan tersebut akhirnya ulama-ulama Mesir gak mau diam. Akhirnya menawarkan fatwa pada tahun 1911 itu gini, misalkan ada orang yang Mesir enggak berhijab ayo dihukum ayus. Beneran bos? Dihukam penjara atau didendang? Seperti itunya. Berarti kan", "orang-orang Mesir pada zaman itu tidak berpedulung. Ada yang berpedun dan ada yang tidak berpdudung. Terus ini juga ada perubahan sosial politik Mesir, tadi saya bilang pemimpin satu kayak Gamal Abdul Nasser yang berkibarat ke ideologi Uni Soviet terus wapresnya itu Anwar Sadat itu prokapital, prokapitaisme akhirnya meminta tolong dengan orang barat, orang Amerika bahasanya. Lanjut", "Menurut kaum perempuan imam-imam muslimnya itu sudah saya jelaskan. Terus, menurut Al-Ghundi ini juga sama. Pakaian Islamis makin tersebar cepat pasca peperangan. Nah, ini yang penting teman-teman. Ini penting banget mungkin. Kenapa kita baju itu kok sampai menjadi identitas kita? Makanya kenapa ada politik identitas gitu. Nah. Al-Hudini ini terakhir. Nanti mungkin teman‑teman bisa tanya–tanya ya. Al-'Ghudi itu mengatakan bahwasannya", "bahwasannya, perempuan-perempuhan dari gerakan Islamis, seperti ikhwanul muslimah contohnya, melakukan transformasi diri. Pertama mungkin dari segi psikologi, dari pemahaman konteks terus secara intelektual dan kontekstual. Terus dalam komunitas ini mereka ingin menampilkan diri sebagai seorang muslima yang berpendidikan profesional tidak etis elitis dan berhijab Mereka", "kuat bagi mereka untuk menyampaikan pesan, loh ini lo Islam bos dengan sintesis antara modernitas dan autenticitas sebagai seorang muslim nah sekarang saya kembalikan kepada temen-temen kalau jujur saya kan ya kaum millennial binzi suka tiktokan nah itu ya orang-orang yang berhijab cuma memakai hijab itu seperti apa? apakah fashion saja? apaka sebuah benda yang ketika saya memakainya", "dapat menggigitkan saya dari hal-hal yang negatif atau fashion soalnya ngapunten gitu ngaputen sangat ini saya tertarik dengan penelitian bahwasannya Yeni seleng seleng itu kayak apa ya Sigma masyarakat Genji cek masakan genjio setiap kali ini ada katakana denurus mungkin teman udah tahu lah denuruse orang-orang yang berkudu tapi suka joget juga", "ini solehah di alih bahasa muda solehod ada lagi ngamuten mungkin ingat benennya topbrut dia toblis kena seperti dalam makanya stigma apa masyarakat kemuslimah itu jadi buruk gitu loh karena ya bancaan mereka ketika kita cari diesel tiktok yang orangnya yang ngebutin hal-hal yang jelek mungkin Pak Aziz kemarin", "Fawaz, terus parahnya ganteng, tinggi dan sebagainya. AI itu langsung bisa membuat seperti itu. Ketika seorang muslim... Itu juga saya bisa buat seorang Muslima berkrodong bajunya seperti ini ukurannya seperti-seperti ini, bisa. Ya mungkin seperti itu ya pemikirannya segitu. Layla Ahmed bahasanya ketika ketika apa? Saya itu perlu diperhatikan agar bisa membuat", "masukkan ke agama Islam mungkin seperti itu saya mohon maaf ngapain penyampaiannya seperti ini karena sejujurnya saya orang tongkrongan mas Rizal gak ada suaranya", "Hai Rizal gak ada suaranya hai hai", "Ini sesi apa ini, Mas? Mas Rizal belum ada suaranya. Oh, saya berisau. Suaranya tidak kedengaran.", "Oh mungkin bisa telingat jemas Riza loge boleh monggo Mas Roy buat everyone Boleh", "Pokok yang pertama Aminah Wadud, bahwasannya kata pemateri. Aminnah Wadуд itu menafsirkan Al-Quran menggunakan landasan berfikir hermenetika. Dia menganggap bahwasanya laki-laki dan perempuan itu egaliter setara seperti itu. Maka ulama' yang dulu penafsiran nya itu cenderung memarjinalkan perembukan", "sana itu memiliki sentimen terhadap orang-orang muslim dengan atribut hijab itu sendiri. Maka makna hijab di tafsirkan ulang juga, dengan alasan bahwasanya orang- orang non islam disana itu mempunyai sikap yang sentiment karena atribu hijab", "keadilan, jagasan oleh Hamina Wadud tadi tentang hijab Laila Ahmed saya bertanya oke siap mas Hamza pertanyaannya bisa disampaikan langsung oh iya singkat aja ya yang tadi yang terkait tokoh pemikiran dari Mesir kemudian belajar di Amerika itu sebangsi pemikirannya sejauh berapa", "berpengaruh kemudian di Mesir. Tadi kan dia banyak mengkritik pemikiran yang ada di Mesire. Setelah mereka meluarkan gagasan-gagasan yang tadi, sejauh mana kemudikan gagasan tersebut berpngaruh di tanah Mesir terse but? Itu saja. Oke baik, terima kasih atas pertanyaannya dari audiens Mas Hamzah bahwasannya seberapa jauh pengaruh dari gagasan itu", "itu, dagasannya siapa? Lili Ahmed ya. Ada pemaknaan hijab itu sendiri. Ini pertanyaan ditujukan kepada presenter yang ketiga Mas Fawaz Oke sebelum dijawab satu pertanyaian lagi di termin pertama kami persilahkan kepada audiens yang ingin bertanya Anggol satu pertanyaan lagi nanti setelah ini bisa dijawabi", "menggapi boleh nggak ini moderator eh kalau boleh-boleh tanya dulu apa pertanyaan dulu ya Monggo pertanyaannya dulu ah pertaik pertanyaanku nanti setelah pertanyaanan Kalau ada jawab jawaban dulu ya Setelah Pertanyaan dijawab dulu Nanti setela dijawak dari dua pertanyaani itu maka kami persilahkan memberikan waktu apabila temen-temen audiens ada tambahan atau apa gitu opini Monggo Pertanyakan kedua", "Mas Kapabin. Izin bertanya, Mbak Dato'a? Oke, monggo. Assalamu'alaikum warahmatullahi wabarakatuh.", "Waalaikumsalam warahmatullahi wabarakatuh.", "Kalau ada di bagian mana dan kalau... Terus juga titik bedanya di mana sih? Dan pengaruh terhadap gagasan mereka lebih pengaruhan yang mana antara Amin Adud dan Layla Ahmed itu. Mungkin nyambung ke pertanyaan Kang Hamzah itu, lebih pengarah dari kedua ini yang lebih pengarak yang mana gitu.", "itu dari saya. Assalamualaikum warahmatullahi wabarakatuh.", "Kemudian poin kedua dari pertanyaan Mas Kayang tadi hampir sama dengan pertanyaannya pertama dari Mas Hamzah. Yaitu sejauh mana pengaruhnya, pengaruhan pemahaman pembaharan seperti ini khususnya di ruang lingkup pembahan gender ya. Mungkin pertanyaanan pertama dulu bisa dijawab oleh Mas Fawaz, pertanyaaan dari Mas Amza. Masih ingat pertanyaanya Mas Fowaz?", "pertanyaan kedua aja tapi dari temen-temen pesan prasar presentasi yang lain dulu nanti nanti kami sudah bagi waktunya gitu-gitu apa pertanyaannya bertanya sejauh mana pengaruh rekonstruksi makna hijab itu sendiri di kalangan umat muslim khususnya di Mesir sendiri", "Sejujurnya ini ketika Laila Ahmed memaklain hijab itu seperti apa dengan kondisi, melihat kondisinya peperangan. Terus ketika di Amerika terus kembalikan lagi ke Mesir. Beliau lebih ke gampang lingkungannya. Saya yang baca ini beliau kurang mungkin saya yang kurang baca ya", "menyandarkan penafsiran itu beliau tidak bersandar saya mungkin kurang sayap ada yang lebih tahu cuman dampaknya secara mesir itu kan dulu ya itu tadi ketika dapat hidup dari berbagai aspek contohnya kayak tadi eh kalau muslim-muslim bahasanya yang memang bener katakanlah tentara memang bajunya seperti itu mereka ingin Mereka ingin untuk tuh seperti ini", "contoh-contoh seperti apa nilai juga seperti itu ketika kembali ke Mesir belum memaparkan seperti apa yang saya paparkan dimana di buku-buku nya beliau gitu dia punya beliau yang ini itu adatnya pemanahan hijab itu nah ini kita perlu kajian lagi Saya jujurnya takut jawab dan secara realitas", "antara yang memang orang Lestari sendiri memakai hijab dan memaknai hijab seperti apa. Terus, orang-orang imigran maksudnya, orang yang ingin sekolah ke Al-Azhar kan banyak juga dari Timur Tengah bahkan dari Indonesia yang memang kulturnya juga berhijab. Jadi secara internal memang sudah ada. Sebelumnya memang punya hijab, cuma ketika intelektualnya tinggi, orangnya mikir nggak usah pakai hijab ya biar aku bisa mungkin di barat lebih bisa perform.", "performa akan seperti itu cikal bakalnya memang ada nah lelah-lelahnya berpotensi seperti apa ya tadi memakai membesar langsung apa yang menyuruh tetap pakai hijab tapi tidak mungkin cepat ya tempatnya seperti itu dimusik ambilan sekarang banyak orang memakainya bijak orang luar juga extra-extra juga Iya cuma ini lagi buat kajian lagi makna hijab", "Kan daerah macam-macam. Sama Laila Ahmad juga, itu sih Mas Seyikur Rizal. Oke. Oke, terima kasih atas jawabannya. Coba sebelum beralih kepada pertanyaan yang kedua tadi di awal, saya mencoba mempersilahkan kepada penanya bagaimana kira-kira jawaban? Apa sudah menjawab inti poin dari pertanyaaan atau masih kurang?", "atau masih kurang silahkan ditanggapi sebentar dan masam baik terima kasih maksud gini ketika gagasan atau pikiran siapa sih apa nanti isnya kalau dalam istilah hermeneutika itu sebagai pencetus itu mempengaruhi suatu wilayah maka apa ya lambat laun di lingkungan itu juga akan berkembang pemikiran", "ketika Libanisme yang digaungkan oleh Atartuk, ketika masa-masa penggulingan Ottoman. Kita bisa lihat sampai sekarang bagaimana Libanismenya itu berkembang di Turki Apakah mungkin juga ketika si... Siapa namanya tadi? Leila Ahmed. Ketika balik ke Mesir", "apa yang terjadi? Apakah dia juga ikut mempengaruhi para-para otoritatif ulama, katakanlah ulama lah yang bisa menafsirkan atau tidak mungkin ketika di situ juga Al-Azhar. Apa jika dia terlibat di ranah penafsiran teks di Al- Azhar?", "Oke, sudah ya Mas Hamzah tanggapan? Oke. Baik. Sebentar kami mempersilahkan dulu kepada presenter pertama itu, Mas Sofi dan Mbak Asmi untuk menjawab pertanyaan kedua. Pertanyaannya itu korelasi keduanya itu dari tokoh keduarnya, dari gagasan keduanyan tentang gender. Itu kira-kira ada?", "ada atau tidak jika ada apa itu ya cek silakan jawab saya izin menjawab Oh iya eh tadi pertanyaannya adalah tentang korelasi pebikiran kedua tokoh untuk", "perempuan di ranah publiknya. Hanya saja mereka memiliki perbedaan di metode. Kalau misalkan Aminawadud, itu lebih terfokus kepada penafsiran teks ayat suci Al-Quran. Tapi Laila Ahmad, itu lagi kepada faktor historisnya dan hadis-hadis misoginis. Itu perbedaannya. Tapi untuk korelasinya, dua-duanya sama-sama", "perjuangkan atau mengangkat hak-hak perempuan di ranah publik. Kalau Aminah Wadud lebih kepada kesetaraan dan keadilan gender, sedangkan Laila Ahmad itu cenderung kepada pemaknaan hijab. Demikian. Mungkin untuk pengaruhnya bisa dilanjutkan oleh Mas Safi dan Mas Hawas untuk masing-masing tokoh.", "Silahkan ditambahi Mas Sofi, pertanyaan itu Mas Kayang. Korelasinya kalau ada tambahan? Halo? Halo. Oke, adakah tambahan jawaban dari Mas Sofie terkait dari pertanyaannya Mas Kayan?", "dan pikirannya itu. Korelasi dari kedua tokoh ini kenapa disandingkan? Kira-kira apa hubungannya? Pertanyaan dari Mas Kayan itu tadi. Untuk korelasi kedua toko antara Laila Ahmad sama dengan Aminah Wadud itu, sebenarnya sudah jelas dijelaskan oleh", "oleh dijawab oleh saudari asmi tadi mereka itu ya sama-sama menggunakan tentang gender itu terkait bahwa kesaraan antara laki dan perempuan mungkin bedanya itu dalam itu udah itu metode-metode penggalian apa yang betul dayang dipakai itu lebih kepada hermiotik kalau Aminah wadud sedangkan", "Mungkin itu sih yang sangat menonjol dari keduanya.", "Azmi itu, ya keduanya sama-sama berbicara tentang mengangkat hak atau kesetaraan gender itu dari kaum perempuan. Mengenai perbedaan-perbedaannya yang lebih detail itu kalau Aminah Wadud dia lebih cenderung kepada menafsirkan ayat-ayat menggunakan metode hermenitis seperti itu. Kalau Laila Ahmed dia lebih kepada sejarah hijab seperti itu", "Tapi mereka keduanya sama-sama dalam meranah kesetaraan gender, dalam merana mengangkat hak dan martabat kembar tua. Kira-kira itu sudah menjawab ya saya rasa. Ini saya persilakan kepada Pak Audian yang ingin menambahkan tadi. Mas Aziz silakan. Pak Modata. Oke gimana masih ada tanggapan?", "masih ada tangga tadi belum satu lagi yang pengaruh apa lebih pengaruhan antara menutupi atau Laila Ahmed bentuk pengalus seperti apa Apakah ada apakah ada Aminah amena komunitas Amina gitu atau atau ada apa gitu pengarunya Seperti apa bentuknya kalau dia ya gede-gede", "Relatif sih kan? Iya sih. Kalau Amin Awadud itu, sejujurnya ketika saya S1 itu sudah saya pelajari pemikirannya. Maksudnya lebih dikenal banyak orang. Sekarang juga di Indonesia Raya. Kalau yang Laila Ahmed ini beliau ketika di Mesir terus pindah ke mana tadi? Sebentar Mas Fawaz ya. Kami ambil lagi waktunya dulu.", "dan diambil inti-intinya saja. Pertanyaan itu, poin kedua, pengaruhnya sampai mana? Apa tolak ukurnya dari perjuangan gender dari dua tokoh ini? Kalau ada, monggo dijawab. Khususnya dari Mas Sofi dan Basma. Silahkan.", "Saya boleh ngomong dikit mas. Dikit aja ini, yang Lele Ahmed nih. Menggo-menggo, menggo dipersingkat ya? Iya Keilmuwan, ke ilmuwan beliau sama penulisan buku beliau. Saya dari paper saat itu saya sebutkan banyak banget terakhir memang 2011 buat buku cuman artikelnya semakin berkembang jaman terus buat tergantung gender Islam dan studi Islam", "itu sih tidak sebanyak Aminah wadud secara komunitas sekian", "Untuk pengaruhnya itu kepada masyarakat. Sebenarnya, tokoh Aminah Wadud dengan Layla Ahmad itu sendiri, dengan konsep gender yang mereka gagas, ini sebenarnya memiliki pengaruhan yang signifikan. Khususnya di kalangan para wanita itu, apalagi di Eropa. Jadi untuk mungkin daerah", "daerah Indonesia sendiri mungkin itu tidak begitu berpengaruh karena memiliki tempat atau wilayah yang berbeda seperti itu. Paham ya Muki maksudnya? Ya silakan, silakan Mbak Semi.", "Untuk tokoh Aminah Wadud, secara akademis beliau lebih berpengaruh dibanding Lela Ahmad. Buktinya dari penelusuran referensi. Karena setelah saya telusuri referensinya terkait Aminnah Wadu itu lebih banyak yang membahas dibandingkan Lela Ahmed. Karena dari segi topik, Aminna Wadid ini membahasa terkai keadilan sosial dan kesetaraan gender. Terlebih kalau kita lihat di Indonesia masih banyak tradisi-tradisi adat", "tradisi, adat atau budaya yang cenderung patriarkal. Banyak yang bilang begitu. Meskipun kalau menurut saya pribadi dalam Islam tidak ada. Tapi karena faktor-faktor budaya akhirnya hal-hal tersebut muncul dan ada teori ini yang akhirnya seakan membela mereka, seakan meninggikan derajat perempuan kembali seperti itu. Jadi kalau dari segi akademik", "Akademik Aminah Wadud lebih superior. Sudah ya? Sudah-sudah bisa dilanjut, sudah terjawab. Oke, sudah dijawab saya rasa. Silakan untuk audiens yang lain Pak Aziz untuk menambahkan kami persilahkan waktu dan kesempatannya.", "Saya nggak nanya moderator menambahkan dari presenter saja. Iya, iya. Tambahan ya. Ya tadi ada dikatakan pada pembahasan bahwa terdapat anggapan perempuan penyebab Adam turun dari surga. Anggapan itu sebenarnya tidak berasal dari Islam karena kalau kita cek di dalam Al-Quran itu nggak ada klaim seperti itu. Bahkan terkait dengan Adam dan Hawa", "Adam dan Hawa, dalam Al-Quran itu lebih banyak penyebutannya Adam. Dalam konteks turunnya dari surga. Tapi memang kalau di Bible ada memang ayatnya. Ada ayat yang menyatakan kesusahan kehamilan dan melahirkan bagi perempuan itu adalah akibat dari kesalahannya terkait buah itu memberikan pengaruh. Nah itu ada memang", "Nah itu ada memang ayatnya kalau di Bible. Tapi di dalam Islam, kalau dikatakan anggapan itu muncul dari Islam, maka nggak ada. Baik di dalam Al-Quran maupun hadis, nggak ada anggaban-anggapan seperti itu. Kemudian terkait kesetaraan dan keadilan, sebenarnya Islam memang memandang lelaki dan perempuan itu setara. Makanya banyak ayat-ayat mengenai itu tidak dibedakan suku", "sukunya, warna kulit baik di laki-laki perempuan itu tetap yang dipandang adalah takwanya kepada Allah hanya saja saya ingin memberikan tanggapan saya kepada bagaimana pemikiran Amina Wadud Amina wadud itu kesetaraan itu diberlakukan di berbagai hal tanpa batasan makanya dia mengenai imam sholat masuk ke dalam ranah itu karena kesetaran", "diberikan ke berbagai hal. Sedangkan dalam Islam itu memang betul dianggap setara, tapi kesetaraan itu dengan batasan. Batasan inilah yang membedakan orang beragama dan orang tidak beragrama. Kemudian mengenai keadilan, sebenarnya keadilannya adalah keadilaan baik sosial maupun hal lain, memang dikatakan tadi bahwa adil belum tentu setara. Sebagai contohnya misalnya,", "Contohnya misalnya, di dalam dunia kerja perempuan itu punya hak cuti haid dan juga punya hak putih melahirkan. Punya hak ruang laktasi dan lain sebagainya. Itu semua hak-hak yang didapat oleh perepuan untuk peremuan. Nah keadilan ini berkaitan dengan hak dan kewajiban itu menurut saya. Namun kalau kestaraan tadi adalah berkaiatannya betul yang dikatakan pemakalah", "dikatakan pemakalah berkaitan dengan peluang kesempatan jadi peluangan mau jadi astronot semua bisa mau jadi tukang semua bisa namun peluangi dan kesembatan tadi itu keberbagai hal sehingga ada masalah Imam tadi yang harusnya ada batasan disitu karena membedakan beragama dan tidak Hai karena agamakan juga batasan memberikan batasan demikian dari saya terima kasih", "terkait materi yang pertama. Bahwasanya kalau ada anggapan di dalam kelompok orang Islam yang mengatakan bahwasanya Adam itu turun gara-gara perempuan dengan landasan itu, sehingga kaum perembuan itu cenderung dibawah derajatnya dari laki-laki. Di Islam tidak ada. Tidak ada anggaplan seperti itu. Jadi ditekankan. Islam tidak mengatkan", "Maksudnya Adam turun gara-gara ini, gara perempuan? Bukan. Tapi memang kalau kita baca sedikit ya, Adam turunkan karena godaan iblis sebenarnya. Karena goda an iblisi. Tapi ini masih di kalangan akademis umumnya masih banyak perbincangan ya. Dengan keterbatasan waktu temen-temen bisa mencarinya sendiri. Oke sebelumnya, sebelum lebih lanjut,", "Dari dosen pengampu Ibu Istiadah sampai jam 16.30. Coba kira-kira gitu Ibu, ini sudah jam 1635. Mungkin diberi kesempatan untuk Ibu Jamilah dulu untuk closingnya. Oke boleh. Baik kami selaku moderator memberikan kesembatan waktu kepada Ibu Zamila untuk menambahkan.", "Untuk menambahkan, monggo dipersilakan waktu dan tempat. Halo Bu Jamila?", "Oke, kalau tidak ada berarti closing statementnya dari presenter saja. Silakan. Oke, baiklah. Silahkan kami berikan kesempatan kepada masing-masing presenter untuk menyampaikan opini atau closing statement dari ketiganya dengan bahasa yang sesingkat-singkatnya dengan tidak menghilangkan poin makna-makna yang penting.", "Silakan, disampaikan. Langsung yang pertama dari Mbak Azmi. Baik, terima kasih sebagai closing statement. Dari sini dapat kita pahami bahwasannya pemaka pepikiran", "dan juga Laila Ahmad. Keduanya sama-sama bertekad untuk... Speakernya didekatkan, Mbak. Oke baik, terima kasih. Dari kedua tokoh ini dapat kita pahami bahwasannya keduanya bertekat untuk memperjuangkan hak-hak wanita yang dilandasi oleh latar belakang mereka masing-masing di mana Aminah Wadud lebih terfokus kepada penafsiran", "Atau reinterpretasi kemudian untuk Lela Ahmad sendiri lebih terfokus kepada penelusuran secara historis. Terima kasih. Baik dilanjut langsung Mas Saffi.", "Menggo disampaikan tidak apa-apa jika dari Mas Sofi itu sepakat, ada yang setuju atau keseluruhannya setuju ataupun ada yang kontra silahkan disampaikannya closing statement.", "Dari apa yang beliau utarakan. Dari metode itu tuliskan seperti itu. Karena kenapa? Karena setelah diteliti lagi Aminah Wadud itu bukan seorang mufassir. Ketika kemudian beliau itu bukan seseorang mfassir, kenapa kemudiaan seenaknya menafsiri ayat ini dan kemudiang mengutarakan argumenya untuk kemudiahan menggaji ulang tek-tek", "ditafsir oleh bufasir itu sendiri karena hakikatnya eh tafsir itu orang menafsiri Alquran itu harus dengan syarat-syarat tertentu sehingga bisa kemudian melahirkan sebuah sebuahan tisari atau penafsiran al-qur'an itu sendiri itu yang bernama dan kemudia nge tidak sesuai dengan apa ya Apa apa yang sudah dituliskan apa-apa yang sudah dijelaskan oleh", "oleh metode lain yang itu berkenaan dengan penafsiran ayat Al-Quran itu sendiri. Mungkin kalau dari keduanya, setujunya saya yaitu mereka berdua itu menggaungkan bagaimana hak-hak perempuan itu bisa diangkat.", "perempuan yang utamanya sering ditindas oleh laki-laki itu bisa diangkat dan kemudian disetarakan. Nah, itu yang kemudahan menurut pandangan saya pribadi itu bisalah diambil dan diterapkan seperti itu. Yang mungkin hanya itu. Terima kasih atas dukungan Pak Menterator. Oke, langsung dilanjut Mas Bawas.", "Untuk Layla Amin sendiri, saya kurang setuju. Cuman saya sangat setuju sekali bahasanya bagaimana penelitian beliau secara historis penyampaian belia dalam memaknai suatu hal. Maka dari itu kenapa saya belajar untuk memahami memakai suatu hali kecil terlebih dahulu sebelum hal yang besar. Mungkin itu saja dari saya. Jangan menjustifikasi seseorang yang belum kita kenal.", "kita kembali. Itu saja. Sekian. Oke, baik. Terima kasih closing statement-nya dari para presenter ketiganya. Baik Ibu, itu sudah disampaikan oleh presenter. Selamat datang. Silakan diramaikan di chat ya. Saya kirimkan di Pijamilah YouTube-nya sudah jadi. Jadi langsung nanti kalau didiskusikan lebih lanjut akan", "akan lebih menarik di chat terlebih dahulu di Youtube. Silahkan digelas.", "Gimana Mas Wawas? Kalau mau teman-teman boleh foto, kalau nggak mau cek kan nggak apa-apa. Kami selaku moderator pada kesempatan diskusi kali ini menyampaikan banyak terima kasih kepada dosen pengampu Ibu Istiada dan Ibu Jamilah yang mengampu materi dan forum ini.", "Terima kasih kepada para audiens yang sudah mendengarkan presentasi kami. Selebihnya, kami selaku moderator mohon maaf yang sebesar-besarnya mewakili para presenter apabila ada penyampaian yang kurang menjawab atas pertanyaan itu bisa dilanjutkan di lain kesempatan. Oke sampai disini saja, kami akhiri. Terima Kasih" ]
amina_mccloud/Indian Diaspora Wash DC_ Prof_ Aminah _McCloud_ Al_kOzBBgHozuU&pp=ygUVQW1pbmFoIE1jQ2xvdWQgIGlzbGFt_1742898606.opus	[ "Yeah, hello. As-salamu alaykum everyone. Welcome and just before we start the formal session because of this situation in India I have to make this announcement. We are all very much worried every house and family is affected there", "So we are planning on May 15 a relief fundraiser for UP and Delhi region. And the, we will be targeting only for oxygen cylinders medicine and doctors appointments so far that whatever fund is needed. We hope that you all will generously support us", "please let me know or other co-hosts personally about your commitment and we will let you know how to donate. So, please write in the chat or send personal emails to me. Let's go on to the next slide. It is today's event. Welcome Dr Amina.", "Dr. Amina Beverly-Aldee and the topic is course conversation on the status of Islam in America in continuing pandemic we have invited Dr. Bosam Siddiqi a very well known scholar in our region and part of our Indian diaspora group he's a director of South Asian desk he was he's", "of America. And he is going to do a formal introduction on this speaker, so welcome Dr. Mazum Saab. So thank you and Assalamu alaikum Professor Dr Aminah Beverly McLeod-Aldean it gives me immense pleasure", "Amina has been a professor emeritus at DePaul University and she has been the Professor of Islamic Studies in the Islamic studies department. Also, she has", "also written books on Islam in America, in general. In the area of religion history anthropology culture all those fields and Islam in america also islam in the international perspective", "a television program and she has been a Fulbright scholar. She has been the editor in chief of general of Islamic law and culture, and with before I introduce and I give the microphone to Professor Aldean, I would very briefly like to introduce that American history in Islam", "Islam in America is it dates back to 400 years at least. And the coming of Muslims in America took place before the Protestants came to America from Europe and one name that comes to mind", "and he was a scholar in his own right. And he had written his autobiography in Arabic, and that book has been translated by Professor Hasselby. He was a Scholar at Harvard Yale, and he taught at American University of Beirut.", "since that time the connection with Islam in America has been quite deep, especially when it comes to the African slaves who were brought to America and the history you all know different phases of how Islam on the part of the African immigrants", "prospered in America and how they sought refuge in Islam. And Dr. Amina is also, as I said, a special scholar in this field. And with this brief introduction, I would like to introduce and welcome very wholeheartedly in our midst to start his lecture.", "waiting to hear what she's going to say. Professor Adin. Oh, Salaam Alaikum and Ramadan Mubarak. I think it's only appropriate that we take a moment for prayers and thoughts about that part of the Muslim body in India which is really, really suffering now many", "Now, many of us were up all night for Muslim Network TV to see how we could pay a tribute but also to let people know what's going on over there because the news is kind of spotty here if you're listening for it in English. So I would ask that we take a moment for those of you who have relatives", "I have relatives and friends. I have acquaintances to pray.", "Okay. I was asked by Reza and I want to thank him, I don't know how he found me but um", "to be with you today. And it's also a little bit of a strain giving, I mean, reflecting on what's happening there. And yesterday on the BBC News, I was listening to a man lamenting that it was Ramadan and he couldn't fast because", "people and I kind of felt that anything I did was just so minimal given what the people there are having to deal with. But then on the other side, there were so many other people who were cooking and bringing food to the people who lined up trying to get loved ones some oxygen or some assistance", "I know it just makes what I have to talk about today seem a little secondary, so bear with me. And I thought about what I would talk about where is Islam in America and in talking about that, it became interesting to look back over say the last decade", "to see where Muslims are and what we're doing, how we fared. And I wanted to start with saying that during the beginning of the Trump era many Muslims liked what he was doing especially those with means because it increased their economic pockets", "pockets across the U.S., many immigrant and first generation in the U S Muslims were playing a necessary, an increasingly necessary part in the nation's economy. And we still do they had been and work continuing to bring family members here using", "of the immigration act many have become business uh pioneers entrepreneurs able to employ the less fortunate members in their ethnic communities um the thing that was interesting", "I hate calling it a subcontinent because it's really a continent all by itself. But how quickly Muslims began to establish themselves and make national brands which had not been here before, like edible arrangements for example. By 2018 physicians from Muslim cultures numbered already about 500,000", "About one fifth of the nation's physicians. Simultaneously, Muslims continue to live quietly contributing to the nation growth not getting much acknowledgement for that but doing it all the same. They, Muslims continued to contribute to the politics", "fiber and diversity, despite another rise in terrorism against Islam and Muslims. Muslims come from over 77 countries representing Sunni Shia and Sufi. In the 2008 election Muslim immigrants", "because Obama was Black and they didn't want to vote for him. Many more, however, voted because Republicans wooed them. I have an Indian friend who lives in Florida, and he was talking about how Republicans went out of their way to make sure that Muslims sat on various councils", "invited to things. So in one way, the Republicans made a seat for themselves in Muslim communities. By 2012 however, the tide turned probably because of what the Bush family did with regard", "to Muslims around the world. Researchers speculated that this was because Obama's immigration policies could continue to be favorable to Muslims, especially in the area of tech visas and healthcare visas. Though very questionable at the border, Obama did not straighten out the immigration policy at our southern border.", "For many white, Native and Black American Muslims however their social economic status remained the same. For blacks the caste system was still in play whether the president was black and Democrat or white and Republican. Also by 2018 dislikes between Black and Brown and immigrant American Muslims began", "began to turn distasteful and they continue to be although they're moving in a good direction today simultaneously there have been another rise in islamophobia or more accurately anti-muslim bias care the council on american islamic relations", "civil rights organization has consistently taken on the litigation of Muslim claims against employers, organizations and individuals who perpetrate violence or hate crimes against Muslims. More veiled Muslim women had made these claims than men perhaps because", "because they dressed as other Americans do. So you couldn't tell if the men were Muslim or not. Here is where one rift in the overall community has persisted, and we'll come back to that. African American Muslims are considered Black first and treated in society as Blacks", "Their religious perspective is known as diverse and thus it recedes into the background. Immigrant and immigrant descended Muslims are encountered by their appearance, clothing, accent,", "and terrorism usually globally. Unfortunately, any violence any Muslim does in the world is attributed by some Americans to Muslims here. Though Islam has been known as a faith community of Muslims, as was said earlier, in this country since its founding it has been an adversarial relationship", "from the often hostile relationships in Europe. It is important to remember that the Western imagination of Islam and Muslims, but that also includes Hindus, Christian Arabs, et cetera has been contentious for 15 centuries. It's embedded in the subconscious knowledge which has been schooled", "in school textbooks, and preachers sermons, and founding documents for all of America's history. The only way many Americans have been able to overcome it is through travel and personal experience. Also unfortunately these large scale experiences", "have taken the form of interreligious dialogue, which has been largely unsuccessful in deterring the actions of vandals, arsonists and perpetrators of violence. Rather than participation in neighborhood activities, music and local sports.", "The Trump administration ushered in increased economic activity, increased social polarization, increased number of hate crimes and increase public use of profanity. Despite this some Muslims expressed in a Pew Research Center report that random people", "people expressed support for them because they were Muslim. How they knew this is unknown, you have to have something on that says I'm Muslim. Recently with the tragedy that's unfolding in India many", "to know, they say I'm concerned what can I do and that's a plus. Among Muslims who approved of Trump's presidency despite his bans and general antipathy toward Muslims three-fourths said that they were pleased with the direction he was taking in the country", "In this survey, 60% of those Muslims say that they feel that media coverage of Muslims was unfair. In recent months under Biden obviously Muslim women have been pushed in commercials across mainstream TV for everyday products which shows a little bit of a shift", "Whereas the two Muslim congresswomen were unflatteringly portrayed during Republican efforts to unseat them during the Trump era, today portions of their agendas have been taken up and taken seriously by the Biden administration.", "put a spotlight on the Trump administration's ability to handle crisis. No matter whether you believe the pandemic, a hoax and the dead imaginary or not, the handling of information to protect the public was terribly unsuccessful by the end of March.", "last year, many cities were coming to terms with the necessity of dealing either with the pandemic or with the 24-hour coverage of a pandemic. Muslim physicians stamped down their fears and began to read everything they could", "hospitals which were turned virtually into ICUs. Few physicians had spent much time in the ICU prior to this with its overwhelming demands. Now all hands were expected to be on deck from the physician to the janitor. Care of the Muslim patient was not a specialty", "a specialty any longer. As whichever physician was on call, was the physician available? Some Muslim patients died without family or clergy as this continues to happen today. For a time bodies were just put in refrigerated carts", "homes were full and we're seeing another replica of that today without the refrigerator trucks. Ramadan began in the last week of April last year, and another panic set in what happens when usual practices are absent? Well, zoom came to take over because", "And it answers some questions, but it barely fed the souls already begging to be fed as they were starved for company in prayers and meals. No Hajj. And I think Hajj is postponed this year too.", "except for a few that live right there in Saudi Arabia. Imams, mental health workers and community leaders stamp down their fears retooled and zoomed to give regular talks seminars classes and of course Juma to lift spirits", "and provide outside contacts. The spiritual and mental toll on Muslim families, as with the rest of the nation was is continues to be deep. Both spiritual and Mental Health Therapy sessions were on Zoom.", "and psychologists is unfortunately tiny, too small to handle the attempted suicides, anxieties, and depressions. And they still are happening. We have clusters that many of us who research are trying to look at today. Few imams were also trained as mental health care workers", "This is something for us to think about for the future. This situation continues as few Muslims, regardless of their ethnicity are going into therapy. Here in Chicago I'm in Chicago, the waiting list for the Khalil Center which is one of the few mental health facilities and it's not really a facility", "facility is virtually over 400 as of yesterday. By the end of May, George Floyd was murdered by a policeman putting his knee on his neck for over nine minutes. Muslims were involved because the owner of the store that called the police", "And that owner insisted police were called. Protests broke out, starting from the store and branched out into the world with video. For Muslims, that another immigrant family made its living off Black neighborhoods caused a lot of angst.", "People in that particular neighborhood, in Minneapolis knew each other. This owner called the police even after one of the employees volunteered $20 from his pay. From Chicago members of Eman and I don't know if you in Washington know about Eman can you say yes or no so we can make this a little bit", "make this a little bit of conversation here, went to Minneapolis to speak with a number of immigrant store owners in Black communities. All refuse any negotiation. While we have been intent on interreligious dialogue", "fairly sane. We have not even had inter-religious dialogue with those who wish to do us harm, and we've had very little intra-religious dialogue. As COVID raged on so did more murders and protests. Muslim organizations their editorial board", "The editorial boards and their writers condemned it in print, which has become a habit. And I know that there's some journalists here with us today. You can condemn yourself out of relevancy if everything that happens is bad. I condemn, I condemn but you don't do. Muslim college students however", "join the protesters to the chagrin of many of their families who wish to just continue a kind of quiet presence, not realizing it's this group today. It'll be you tomorrow because Trump's administration has stoked a kind native tendency that in this country is hard to quell", "Some Muslim cultures, as you well know extol whiteness. I've looked at the videos, I have laughed and I have to admit I've been laughing at them. And I've", "And I know historically where it comes from. But in this country, it belies and goes against what we understand to be a Muslim woman. It's a kind of conversation that we must have in order to be successful as Muslims", "good progressive citizens of this country. Many organizations, and I don't know if you've heard of Muslim Arc, but Muslim Arc is a Muslim anti-racist collaboration. And what they do is they give workshops on how to recognize our own implicit bias", "And all of us have implicit bias. Racism, anti-whatever bias doesn't just exist in one group of people. All of us a little taste of it. Some of the organizations actually fought amongst themselves over things like we don't want to be known as supporting Black Lives Matter.", "matter well all of us are reading the quran we're praying every day and if we don't stand for justice anywhere there's a need to take a stand then we won't stand in for justice uh and i think that is important also for us to have a conversation about this afternoon but these groups", "two organizations, one in Texas and one here in Chicago. They fought over having others see them as supporters of Black Lives Matter. And nobody wants to be thought of as a racist. It's just anti something or the other.", "I'm a firm believer that a lot of it, it comes out in conscious ways. But a lot the deeply held things are very unconscious. As both COVID and protests continued into 2020, the summer of 2020 we missed an opportunity to act as mediators.", "had moved to be predominant in spaces of learning. And I, for one and I don't see many women on this call but I for one was cheering that there were women whose classes I could attend. I could benefit from a world of knowledge. I was really, really cheering it on. Other Muslim women began taking their classes almost", "almost as a preference. Women had an opportunity, those who had young kids to put them down or just send them off to do their remote learning all kinds of good things were happening even though we hated our quarantine. Women chaplains came into the mainstream and again women turned", "But as you can see, there are some things that are popping up in this particular Western diaspora that are new and Islamic thought. Chaplaincy is new to Islamic thought the fact that you could have men and women chaplains and are they also emaps? Women began to call themselves ustada", "this that or the other nobody knew no more than they knew from amounts what their credentials were but they were in various places representing all of us covet continued to hang around keeping many schools and workplaces empty i fortunately", "able to sit back and watch this, and thank Allah that I'm not still teaching anything anywhere. And it's been interesting. Inner City Muslims continued the food pantries. Muslims themselves learned and are in the process of learning", "the world, not just yourselves but the world. It can't be although today India is on our plates and we must pay it attention tomorrow it'll be another place and we", "not leave them, but to come out of them to see the world around us. And that is important and I would like the flyer that preceded my talk if you could just send that to me I'd appreciate it so I can pass it along. But we have to come", "work to change societies for the better we can't do that if we only treat those in our group uh one of the things we're pushing additionally um and i'm gonna ask um razi to come with me on muslim network tv is it's important muslim", "Muslim Network TV is the only TV station run by Muslims here in the United States. We're trying to cover a lot, I am praying along with others that we survive but if Muslims don't support it, we won't. We report both on the world and on things happening here in The United States and Canada.", "It has been an interesting experience for me as we've tried to make the host on Muslim Network TV is diverse, as humanly possible. And we all have fights because everybody wants to push of course their agenda but in this place our tasks and I've looked at the quarantine pandemic as a reckoning", "And how we are able to deal with our reckoning is, I think one of the largest tests will have in our lifetimes. It's one thing to read in the Quran about Noah and prophet Luke and all of these people because we can put them in a past way behind us but when it is staring us in the face", "we handle it becomes important because that is what it is. With regard to, we have a couple of research groups and there's still very early yet to get all the surveys", "an interesting article. When, do you know what ISPU is? Yes, no? Razi, do", "research group, an Institute for Social and Policy Understanding. And although their research is not as good as it should be, they improve constantly every year. And they had begun, they have begun, it's still going on to do some research tests to look at what is the ethnic composition of Muslims?", "And one of the things they found was that although there are very few white Muslims, white American Muslims. What has happened in the last few years is that Arab Muslims have started to try to get themselves classified as white which is very interesting for white America who knows that they're not white because they don't have quote unquote European", "heritage. So it's an interesting kind of thing I can get by the caste system because I will say I'm white every time I get to check a box that says I'm White, I will check that box but you have a whole White population saying no you're not, you're Irish, you know Scottish, your ancestry does not lay in", "in those places. So while ISPU is fighting its way along, the Pew Research Center in Washington is steadily collecting statistics and Muslims have made it difficult because Native American Muslims,", "don't tend to have identifiably Muslim last names. So it's getting really touchy as they try to figure out how to count us and if there's anything we learn in western, about Western civilization is that it has come to rule the world because it counts things", "It counts things. It puts things in categories and we flow in that, you know as a former professor of Islamic studies teaching my students largely white American students about the Muslim world was most difficult because of geography for many", "Many of them, Pakistan is one country. India is another country. They do not lie anywhere near each other. Bangladesh could have been an Antarctica for all they knew. I mean, I became mostly a teacher of geography. Also the thing that in this me generation that is missing is empathy.", "The other morning on a prayer line in the African American community, one entire prayer talked about the body. And it talked about that if we didn't get concerned about that Indian part of our bodies and get as much money goods find out what who we could join where and how to do our", "to do our fair share for that part of our body, that is suffering now. Then we didn't deserve to be called Muslims. And it was very important because in all my years as being Muslim I'd never heard a prayer like that and hopefully it will amount to something which is why I need that flyer", "end here to have a little conversation because I know that many of you have to get back. I don't know what is India's about nine, 10 hours ahead of us on the phone as people try to reach people, et cetera but to end here for conversation with you thank you very much for your attention and for inviting me", "As-salamu alaykum. Thank you very much, Professor. It was quite enlightening and quite challenging also for us to initiate this process of conversation where we are missing the train and what we are supposed to do and how much we are not doing so I think this opens really for the conversation that you have asked for", "challenge our audience to ask really tough questions or bold question, or at least express themselves what they intend to do to be in the mainstream of America as a Muslim, as a moral citizen, as model citizen and add as part of Qumma. So please Dr. Rafat Hussain take over for the", "for the question answer session okay thank you razivai um i don't see i have raised my hand yeah yeah go ahead so uh fantastic uh connor's uh the lecture very uh very brief uh i was very impressed uh you know", "you know thank you for this is kind of question i think i will ask a question very personal but i think if you don't want to answer that's fine because I am born into a Muslim family and somewhere in this very southern part of India so what was the attracted view to Islam", "I think, well, I was not born into a Christian family. But looking as a first year college student around to see myself and at that time looked much like this time except there was not a pandemic but there was a pandemic of sort of violence", "looking to see myself and where I went to school, a large number of the men my class was the first class of women to live on campus. And there were huge African some South Asians student male student body almost all of whom are Muslim and listening to them try to", "to sort out what was happening in the Muslim world. It was the Biafran war, but it was also issues with what had happened after the partition of India. I, of course didn't know India had been partitioned and had never heard of Jinnah,", "sitting and listening to a young man read the Shikwat. And I said, oh these people are really on it you know? I mean it sounded like um the kind of lesson it didn't matter what your ethnicity was but the kind", "how many years ago that was. Thank you, it's great. Thank You Professor Raldin. So those who wanted to ask the question or want to engage in a conversation please raise your hand or put your request in chat box okay so now I see the next one. Nawab Siddiqui Saab please go ahead. Yeah um i think", "Muslims in America support black lives. However, they may be afraid to show it. So could you comment on that? Why? Because of the cultural backgrounds and we are afraid that we may be classified some ways and later be punished. But trust me,", "And if it came to, you know this unfortunately is a country where divide and conquer has always been the thing. And this is why I said that Muslims have missed an opportunity Islam brought in the luggage and in the hearts of Muslims", "are not going to be deterred by skin color, social economic class. We have a larger agenda here and just like our prophet had we stood against injustice loudly the voices who stand for injustice would have had to recede", "You know, I don't think you know in back in the day when African Americans and some Latinos and Native Americans fought to have and gave up their lives to have immigration policies change. So that people from other countries they weren't looking at whether they were Muslim or Hindu or anything could come here. They didn't stop", "out to think, well let me see what their religion is and oh you know I might get hurt. But it was a necessity to have the diversity that led many in many ethnic communities come here. Thank you Professor Aldean so next person is Muazzam Siddiqi after that Pratap Behrasab. Muazzamsa please go ahead unmute yourself.", "Thank you, Sister Amina. I am so grateful that you pointed out some of the basic problems that we have especially, I mean the South Asian Muslims because of our background. You know India has the most ancient caste system in the world and one", "that you find ever in any society. So unfortunately, Indian Muslims are they grew up in that environment and in their subconscious this feeling of if I want to use the word racism so we have this unconscious which is very much contrary", "the basic teachings of Islam to the message of Quran. And it is about time that we move forward and stretch our hand toward African American Muslim friends, and the society in general of African Americans. And hopefully we do not pass this on to our children.", "hopeful that our next generation will be free of this ingrained racism within ourselves. And I'm so grateful and there are some organizations in the Chicago area, as you pointed out, there are Muslim women involved in that and all over the United States, there", "of and you are also cooperating with them and participating in their activities well i would like to see more participate you know I have learned the most about Islam from women Indian women Arab women Chinese women Muslim women I have", "learning how to cook food from various regions, how do you appreciate what they value and to add it to my list of things that I value. How to raise children? You know all of those things become important I think. Here in California one group", "I'm trying my best to support because I don't want to see them disappear as Muslim ARC. Because it's an anti-racist collaborative group and what they're working on doing is to get to that nitty gritty of the majority population for whom we seem to pose a threat.", "They're not sure what the threat is. But in Sunday school, they learn that Islam is here to kill Christianity. That Muslims are terrorists and we want to take over. So combating those people, not the ones at inter-religious dialogue but combatting where", "where the real threat lies is some of the work of also mark. We have a huge problem, I mentioned it earlier, I also sit on the board at Eman and we fight so much on many different levels one of the great things about Eman is it represents", "the Muslim diversity that there is. I think that many of the young people, and I think you're right, they are not like you. Some of them are but many of them aren't like their parents much to the parent's chagrin and I'm going to disinherit you and do a whole bunch of other things", "And a lot of the kids have said, well take your money and I'll see you later. Oh, I've learned to listen to music that I did not think I would be listening to at my age. You know, I'm listening to their spoken word there they're doing a kind of cultural fusion that is, I mean it's invigorating.", "They have aspirations to sit on city councils, should be older people. To get in state Congress and US Congress. They're doing some very interesting things. We also still have an older crowd who doesn't want to let go as if we haven't taught our kids enough.", "you know, and we don't trust them. So we don' t want to let go. We don't want to support their vision which is going to be different than ours has been but it's gonna be foundationally what ours has", "on Critical Talk, he is gonna be a physicist but he's also a chef. He's 15! He was in the program and you can look at it on Muslim Network TV teaching about the spices and how they're good for this in your health that in your house and cooking his heart out. But I know that he's going to be a physicists. You know? Thank you, Prof.", "or you wanted to say more no it's okay thank you uh mr pratap beira please unmute yourself yeah thank you i have a very even small question it is rather a curiosity", "ethnicity one side and religion or religiosity the other side so in some cases we see a community diverse heterogeneous in terms of ethnicity but singular religion or faith system", "and opposite situation is also there. So, you know the permutations and combinations vary from place to place. Somewhere it is ethnically diverse somewhere it is system wise diverse.", "are very few cases where ethnicity is singular and the caste system also singular. Those are exceptional cases. Otherwise, at least one side is diverse and heterogeneous that is the most case as I perceive across societies, across different countries nations. So in such a situation", "this heterogeneity and because the way it has been problematized, protected and mishandled we have been witnessing so many social problems. It is killing the society. There is some danger", "because of mishandling. That is my assumption. So, my curiosity question is that how this ethnicity or ethnic diversity can follow or be subservient to the religious tenets? The religious tenet of a faith or many faiths and I believe", "And I believe religions, the spiritualities they have many things to serve humanity. So those tenets how should they manifest and how these ethnic diversities which are coming on the sacred ways of the faith systems, they are really sabotaging", "sabotaging the social role faith system is supposed to play. So there are propaganda about a religion, this or that those people who know they can tell it better but I see often there is misrepresentation and thereby the ethnic diversity instead of learning from a system, a faith system", "you know, the opposite consequences are happening. So how do we prevent this? One thing that you were talking about is inter-religion dialogue that I underlined inter religion, inter religious dialogue but then I want more of it. Thank you Pratap. So Professor Aldin, you got it he's talking about", "the ethnicity and the monolith or religion. And there are different ethnic background with the same religion, and how do you reconcile? Well I think what you all have done here by inviting different people is one sure", "sure way to hear different opinions but i think we must have um what we must more frequent non-emergency conversations do you know what i mean we just gotta talk more often when it is not", "It is not critical because conversations only cease to be sensitive when you talk about them all the time and you find different ways to approach them. Okay, thank you professor. Sayeda sends up.", "Unmute yourself, please. Thank you very much. It was really a pleasure. I really enjoyed and you raised a lot of good ideas and questions as well. And let me clarify one thing that our South Asian association with the white is perhaps lies in this fact", "the fact that a fair complexion has been generally it is favored all over the world perhaps but especially in India this is a craze. I mean, so perhaps what I heard is that whitening cream is being used in India perhaps equal to be all over", "personally and a lot of my friends when they see a black Muslim, we really feel much better with him than a white Muslim because somehow he looks like will be more faithful to the religion than him. This is an impression I don't know it's right or not so my statement is that we do not", "the fair complexion is better than dark completion uh you know feeling which i think it is a very very uh and i think this to a bitter part of the world as well like arabs also think that they are white", "comment on that. And the second thing I wanted to mention, our association with Trump, I heard from other people, I don't like him myself but they said that Trump did not invade or support terrorist activities to topple existing governments. Obama did, both Bushes did and Reagan did and all of that.", "and all that. So, uh, that was one reason I heard so well. I would like you to comment on that as well. Thank you. Well, I think that, you know, America's political environment is no more complicated than anybody else's but", "that most of the people in the world are of color. And those who have perpetrated whiteness as a standard are the minority. And that makes sense. You know, I don't want to be a minority. I want you all to aspire to be like me and I'll kill you if you don't. The other thing is, I can say,", "support Mr. Trump, even if it wasn't in their own best interest? Because even if Trump were president today he could not have stayed out of other countries' businesses for long. Do you see what I'm saying? Because we depend on those other countries", "the issues of ethnicity and religion have become what they call foils for ignoring some more important issues like poverty, homelessness, starvation, loss of potable water. All those things are far more important to handle than not", "that not so much religion, but ethnicity. I was watching a program in India the other day that talked about Zoroastrianism and how they've gotten so in their bubble that they're dying off. So now they're panicked. Oh my God, we made it a sin to marry somebody other than another Zoroaster. Now we got to take it back. All of those things", "things and overlooking the dire poverty, the economic imbalances in the world. You know is something wrong with that? So I think that the plays on focusing all of our attention on one thing and not on the other...I mean for example we got so focused", "that we didn't realize that in Virginia, they had a mock constitutional convention which would deport most of the Muslims in this country. They were moving to see how far they could float various amendments and which amendments they can take back. That was far more... I mean it got to work as well as it did", "it did because people were focused on an election and unable to focus on more than one thing at a time. Thank you. Next is Iram Gol, then Dr. Raziuddin. Unmute yourself, Iram. Thank You, Rafa. As-salamu alaykum. Wa-alaykum as-salāmu. As salamu wa-alaykumu, Mameena.", "i'm uh ma'am i did some research on um you can listen me now hello", "Hello? Okay, it's better. Go ahead. Yes. Ma'am I was saying that I did some research in my MPhil on Muslim organization in USA like ISNA, ICNA and Nation of Islam. And it was really an amazing experience to know the struggle of African Americans for their human rights in US society.", "In this situation, these organizations are working together or they are confined within their limits to cope with the situation that is prevailing nowadays in the world? Thank you. To my knowledge, ICNA and ISNA, well, they kind of work together on occasion but", "They also don't work with until it becomes something that they want the papers to report. I'm trying to remember a couple of conferences that I went to where they had groups for, no special spaces for Latino Muslims but because none of them were in the same group", "because none of them spoke Spanish, they didn't have a clue as to what was being said in those groups. So I don't think that the groups are actually working together. The other African-American Muslim communities outside of the nation may have a little bit more camaraderie", "camaraderie, not much with some of the immigrant organizations. Thank you, Professor Aldean and the last person is Dr. Razi Raziuddin and Abdul Jabbar Saab do you really have something very pressing because you raised your hand again then I will end up with Razi Uddin Saab please be brief yes so i think that", "So I think that regarding, we all came here at least I came here to this country 40 years ago through the prism of the US as a scientific technological prowess not for any social political understanding of this country. So we kind of drove that thing into our children as well", "it good in their studies i think that really the problem i think in terms of and then we come here we learn try to understand the cultural political uh dynamics of this the us just i just wanted to make make a comment that's it yeah thank you um i think muslims have covered that point go ahead dr razi rajiv din oh well", "any question that is surprising. You should ask one question and then I can go. No, no, go ahead. All right. I am fine now. Okay. So I think in since it is more in a conversational mode, I think what has to be acknowledged by Indian subcontinent Muslims here in America", "at least from the India, the Muslims who came from India they came from a plural society. They should have participated in the struggles here with the minorities and they did not that acknowledgement we should do. And slowly a lot of them I think in this decade", "I think one of my activist friend who is from Black Lives Matter, is right here. Mujahid Muhammad, I think he's still here. And so what I'm saying is that besides being more tuned to career and good profession and all those, there's a mindset of migrants. We are slowly coming out of our shell. It is really the idea", "it is really, uh, it was lacking from our part. Uh, it is not really a fear from whites or anybody because we were always in good shape here so we didn't suffer from any kind of complex. It was our more like selfish interest of focusing on our career and that slowly when", "they actually taught us back that you have to be more fuller participant in the society as most of them are. They are very much in league with all the issues of human rights, civil rights, Black Lives Matter, gender issues and we are learning a lot from them and adjusting with that", "think most of Muslims or non-Muslims from India are very much part of Black Lives Matter now. Still, maybe they're not tuned to go in the demonstration that much but also you can see a big number now at least since especially during the Trump era. But one contradiction is there, Muslims like coming here", "Indian subcontinent or Arabs and others, they do have these things in their DNA. This race thing because they either born are converted but they do this DNA the race DNA is there and that issue comes up and we should acknowledge very honestly Indians Muslims or non-Muslims alike", "their DNA the same nature, same thing. Perhaps Islam does a little better in that sense to take out that kind of biases but still we suffer from it and perhaps we should learn and become more better as participants or model citizens or activists. That's all I can say. And so with that I think we should end up", "up this thing, this event and before that we Faisal can you put the last slide for our next Saturday talk. Faisals if you are there.", "who is very well known for the Indian subcontinent audience, Professor Barbara Metcalfe. And she's the living embodiment of a scholarship on especially Indian Muslims, Indian sub-continent Muslims and she has done tremendous amount of work throughout her life.", "time is changed because she's going to do the event from California for her it was a little early so we are changing 12 rather than at 11 only one time for her because that will be 9 am for her. So, it will be at 12 pm noon and it will", "Islamic Scholarship in India of the Barrage and Dr. Mohsen Siddiqui will be giving the opening remarks so please join that and Dr Aldean I will send you the fundraiser, formal poster we'll get but this information also I will", "you can for this cause it is really badly needed any number of any dollar amount will be fine and it is totally geared for oxygen getting oxygen to patients and medicine and the doctors" ]
amina_mccloud/Islam_s Divine Feminine_ Guru Jagat x Dr_ Amina Wa_KUMdAJDBkSQ&pp=ygURQW1pbmEgV2FkdWQgaXNsYW0%3D_1742901075.opus	[ "Hi, Reality Riffing. Welcome to the Immense Grace Binge Series. These are interviews that I have done in the past season, 2019-20, of great women from all over the world doing incredibly powerful esoteric and magical things.", "So I'm very excited to share with you some of these profound conversations.", "bringing a feminist viewpoint to reading the Quran and the holy prayers. And she has an incredible story, she is an American actually from close to where my family's from in Baltimore and her journey took her all around the world discovering", "of Islam within the feminist rhetoric. I hope you enjoy this incredible, incredible elder and wisdom keeper. Welcome back, immense grace. So excited to be joined by Dr. Amina Wadud who's the author of The Groundbreaking Quran and Woman Rewriting the Sacred Text from a Woman's Perspective", "women's reform in Islam. And I love that you describe yourself as a black senior non-binary American Muslim living in the South East Asia, it's a beautiful description so welcome thank you so much for being here. Thank you for having me and thank you So I'd love to just start what kind of led", "of background in terms of your journey here. I begin as I always began, in the name of Allah whose grace I seek in this and all other matters. Thank you so much for this opportunity. I love the engagement with the Divine Feminine across different traditions,", "Indeed, my own life path is one where I have been a loving and learning participant and devotee in three religious traditions. My father was a Methodist minister and I was raised with the God of love. In fact, my last name Wadud is an attribute of God that means loving. And when I was in the university,", "in a buddhist ashram and practiced buddhism for a year. And I still practice meditation daily now, but two years or so after that i felt calling to Islam and um as a consequence of reading the sacred text in only English my life course was set.", "are drawn about recovering and reclaiming the divine feminine through the Islamic sacred texts, and putting those into implementation in the context of history, culture, law, and spirituality. Wow. So I'd love to just... Obviously these are big strokes, broad strokes here but I think a lot of people especially", "tends to be not versed in some of the more mystical and very powerful teachings around Divine Feminine, in the Quran. And just around the kind of ecstatic in general. I would love to hear some of things that started to open your mind when you were studying and through writing these books. Yes well first of all I have to say a little bit about the challenges. As I said I fell in love with the Qur'an", "the Qur'an just reading it in English. And what I did was, um, I embarked on in-depth study of what's known as the prerequisite sciences or skills for, um... Quranic interpretation. I did that as part of my undergraduate sort of informally but when I joined graduate school, I specifically engaged in studying you know, just about the Qurʾān and", "more than one country and I finished the master's in a PhD, then I wrote my dissertation. And from that, I wrote a book which is now almost 30 years old. It's considered one of the groundbreaking texts for the creation of Islamic feminism. Wow! The challenge was finding an equal legacy of women's voices, women's ways of knowing", "the literature that had been generated around understanding this sacred text. There was no record until the 20th century, so that means we went for 1300 years missing the infusion, the necessary infusion of the divine feminine and masculine even in the way", "we, you know, use this text to model the way of life in Islam. So I was a part of the movement to reclaim the existing divine feminine voice by bringing it sort of out from behind the veil. Wow. And I'm sure you've met with some opposition doing that. Yes, and there's still some opposition now but as", "But as I approach my seven decades around the sun, I have decided that I will spend the rest of my time for those people who are interested in opening up even more dimensions of a sort of inclusive interpretation and practice. And not spend so much time trying to counter the naysayers because the world is full of light and dark.", "concentrate only on the dark i may not appreciate some of the divine beauty that's in the light so I'm just going to go for the light right now amazing thank you thank you for saying that i think in this time um you know i mean really it you only have so much time to do the work that you know you're here to do and if you don't focus on it then you know that that time", "can you give us a little bit of just a view of some of this the sacred feminine, you know these pieces that you've reclaimed recovered and discovered? Okay so Islam is a theist tradition. So that means it's focused on an ultimate reality called God in Arabic Allah which", "be the source of you know all creation and yet distinct from creation by being the creator uh and yet of course the way that we understand the sacred is through our own hearts our own experiences their own bodies um and so interestingly enough this same single god ed is represented or reflected in 99 attributes or names and these attributes are names", "names have both Jamal, which is feminine and Jalal, which has masculine characteristics. So you have 99 names that fits together to create a dynamic unity. And this dynamic unity is called Tawhid. I had been working with Tawhi as a paradigm for social justice equality in human dignity so thats an application of the spiritual perspective", "the spiritual perspective in the context of, as I said, law history politics culture. Yeah. But I am a devotee. I'm a person who has been blessed with positive experiences literally all over the world and in many sacred places at many sacred times. And so what I want to do is to be a part of the infusion of the reaffirmation", "of the Jema'a, the Divine Feminine because history has shown us that there's been a lot of attention given to the Jemak. So I want to bring them in harmony for the purpose of the result of that harmony which is peace and beauty but at this time I want emphasize more about the Divine feminine because I didn't feel I needed to do that earlier in my work", "you know, cisgendered female. But now I feel like something is missing even in the conversation about this dynamic unity and that is a divine feminine. We just need more of the care and the love, you know? Yeah. So I'm really, you", "my teacher who is Sikh, but he was a yogi and studied and taught very much about the sound. He said that the Quran has in it when it's spoken and chanted and sung, it can totally enlighten the being who's doing it. It has those codes in it. I'm just curious about your perspective on that, your experience.", "Yes, it's very interesting because the Qur'an is sort of the center of Islam in a sense that when the revelation first came to the Prophet he was considered unlettered. That means that he didn't read and write in the sense which you pick up a book. He could maybe do some rudimentary things. So all of a sudden he gets this download of this thing that he hears", "And he hears it, you know, in the tradition we believe he hears from the Archangel Gabriel. He hears it and when he hears that is a calling that asks him to speak through what we call kira'a, the recitation or reading. He's like well I can't read, I can read. He said this several times and eventually he was pressured so much to just let go", "of the Qur'an came through and that experience continued for a period of 23 years. What's fascinating about it is when you read what it was that came through, the logic, the beauty, the motivation, the inspiration, the dynamism of it also speaks to you. And over the course of Muslim history we have re-encoded", "multiple forms. One of the first features of Islamic art was calligraphy, and it was based on simply taking the letters from the Qur'an in Arabic and formulating them for a beautiful pictorial. But the other, of course as you mentioned is the recitation that there, the rhythm, some parts of the Qurr'an are very poetic literally with rhyme schemes at the end", "parallel each other in certain interesting forms so that the aural aesthetic, the visual aesthetic is supposed to go along with the spiritual aesthetic as well. Wow. So and have you I mean has it been your experience when you're praying, when you are reciting that this opens up certain kind of aspects of your own consciousness? Have you had any kind of mystical experiences?", "experiences interesting combination of things that happen so first of all there is the recitation not only a good one but also we have over the you know fourteen hundred forty years of historical Islam we've created certain formulas like mantras yeah certain things that get to be repeated", "And then these things are put into different patterns. La ilaha illallah, la ilaha ilallah, and this is commonly known as zikr.", "get a rhythm of sound that there are also certain moves that can go with it. So simple moves, sort of you know you go into the universal circle you know sort of with your body four directions and that kind of thing right or you sit quietly and just let it resonate with you as you do the repetitions you know with your eyes closed or you stand in the group so there are actually sort", "interestingly enough, comes from the word zikr itself which means remember. In other words at a certain time everything in the creation was at one with its creator or with the divine and we chose, we agreed to take this material form, this 3D form on this earth separated as we are or as it appears sometimes", "know the divine when really we are not. We chose this and we need to remember, we need return back to the place where we all came and the zikr is a formulaic kind of you know can be very simple it can be there very elaborate and very beautiful it's a formula of sound that is as I said also combined with the embodiment that we experience being on this earth. Wow", "um that of course i i find that very fascinating and so we're followers of sound sound yeah you can tell people they can google zicker you can either spell it z h i k r or d h i kr if you just google zikr you will get on spotify there's secret channels their stickers you know if you", "Where are there bridges that you found, that maybe Western women would be surprised about? So it's interesting. I truly believe that there is a universal transcendent truth and then there are emanations from that truth so they are truths, plural. In the context of the human community,", "come from one and we all return to one. And how do we visualize and affirm that oneness with an other? And being a black woman, you know, from the United States, being hijabi in the United states or certain parts of world where Islam is not a majority I have understood", "people can treat other people as if they are not a mirror of their own self or, you know, their own heart. And so the most fascinating part about working, you now again located in this body, cisgendered female body throughout the world, I've been to more than 60 countries and lived in six is in which ways do cultures traditions and communities", "affirm the oneness of all humanity when humanity is so radically, in fact aesthetically beautifully diverse complicated pluralistic. So gender is one of those factors and so is sexuality so is race so as language groups so is you know your differently abled bodies how do we create mechanisms for maintaining", "for maintaining the dignity of every human being when those human beings are so different. So as I said, gender is one of those aspects and in fact, I want to say that it was the doorway for me into understanding the entire phenomenon but I have to be honest that as a black woman, as a child growing up in America with black family members, I think intuitively race was my first entry", "And like the rest of the world, we were taken over by patriarchal articulations. And men centering themselves and their own devotional experiences assume that what they experience in the world is all there should be experienced. Right.", "women's lived realities, women's ways of knowing, women' s ways of being in the world, womens ways of participating in their relationship with the divine through this embodied location on the earth. And it just happens that the motivation in Islam for deep study was taken up and it was maintained but it was biased", "participate, especially as women are reproducers. In other words we have babies and want to take care of our babies or to be with our babies that the facility for us to participate was not equal in the history of Muslims although it was mandated equally both by the sacred text and by the Prophet himself upon him be peace. So what became necessary was to disentangle male discourse about the divine", "the divine from its projection as the only universal perspective on the divine and to open up the conversation so that we could have perspectives from uh you know all the 360 degrees of the circle uh so that when we look you know at the center the way home the way to our heart the way", "are looking at the divine. That's one reason why I say a kind of interfaith discourse with regard to the Divine Feminine is something really important to me right now. In other words, how are we even in traditions with sort of different kinds of orientations in the world? How are we each looking in that circle towards that singular Divine Truth, that singular unity and beauty? And so this was", "You know, I mean, I myself have only been a feminist for 10 years because politics of the terminology. Yeah. This was necessary in the context of Islam and Islamic discourse specifically with regard to gender because our text just like you know so many other texts written in human language had the privilege for men to interpret and put into implementation some of that didn't necessarily ring true with the highest truth of the unity", "the unity and the necessary dynamisms of inclusion. So we are working to create more of that now, and also to use it as part of policy and law because we still have aspects of Islamic law that are in practice in certain countries today. Yeah, yeah. And you're very actively working on in the political landscape, correct? I wouldn't say that I'm actively working", "But what I say is, as they said in feminism, the personal is political. Everything has a dimension of impact that will be challenged by certain dynamics of power on the ground. Yes.", "to represent the full dignity and quality of a muslim woman by performing in the role as imam. The imam is the one who stands in front, imama hum, in front of a collective prayer ritual our prayer ritual is deeply embodied standing vowing standing prostrating sitting back", "body ritual form of worship and devotion. And so you have to organize it or otherwise it's chaos, you know? And so in the organization of it again, the men have encoded a privileged position for themselves always at the front lines and women always in the back but assigning for themselves the singular possibility of performing as the one who stands", "orchestrate that whole performance by their own performance. And it's, you know, certain parts of it are out loud. So when the practice came down to us over a thousand years later people believed that only men could be there and that the nine lines had to necessarily be separated by gender, men in the front women in the back or downstairs or upstairs.", "are reclaiming something, again that was a legacy from even the time of the prophet. We are reclaimming the quality of performance by making it accessible to everyone and to share the role of orchestrating it not because the one in the front who's leading the prayer is closer to God. God is not spatial in that sense but rather the one", "community when community is participating together in those acts of devotion and that this can be either male or female able-bodied or differently bodied we are just a part of an articulation where we want to make that present and known and not just a sort of kind of ephemeral idea you know so i had to challenge myself because again as i said i prefer solitary worship yeah but i had", "say is political in as much as it says legitimacy, authority rests in the one who leads the prayer not because they are special or closer to God but because they take that responsibility for the community through themselves and through their own bodies. Wow and how has that been for you? Well again it was a challenge my first experience", "in South Africa, interestingly enough. And they were celebrating the end of apartheid. Nelson Mandela had been president for 100 days and they were the Muslim communities there are again a minority but they were really concerned that class, that is economics and agenda be on the agenda as well as race. So they have begun to experiment with women's leadership", "in certain aspects of the devotion. So they invited me and it was so, I don't know, so awesome that I resisted from then on for the next 11 years. And yet I studied and also did deep introspection and that kind of thing. And so 11 years later when I was invited to lead a performance that was intentionally done as a public display of the performance of women in these roles", "women in these roles in 2005, uh, in New York. Uh, which went viral with viral didn't exist at the time, uh... Yeah....which went viral. I was ready because I had taken that 11 years from my first experience to you know, this-this second time that I agreed. I'd been asked in the interim but I had said no, I wasn't ready to do it again. Um, but when I was", "for me because I had done my time with my Lord. I had spent my time in introspection and I understood, as I mentioned to you just a moment ago, that I am not closer to God because I'm in the position of imam. Each one of us are humble before God and through us we are supposed to manifest God-like qualities on the earth and with regard to each other. And so that was what that 11 years was for me.", "for me to clean my heart from the ego that naturally wants to get attached to these kinds of things, especially when they are groundbreaking. So I had to work on that and I had also work on as I said before, my preference is for solitary worship so I had come out of my own comfort zone in Shell in order to be a part of community conversation", "And so it's been fascinating because from these two events and everything that happens in communities in between, we have seen the burgeoning of women's mosque initiatives globally. Women are saying you know what let's not wait, let's just create this space where we can be considered as full devotees.", "So this is something that's happened in the last 25 years which 25 years ago I couldn't see it and a lot of other people couldn't See it and few people had a vision of its possibility. Well now that possibility is manifest It's a reality and hopefully there will be more yeah, I believe there will because That's that's the era we're headed into we are in but it's it's you know, it's showing itself more and more right now", "interfaith collective component of it. In other words, the deep sharing of traditions for the ways in which those traditions again help to polish the heart to purify our role in these bodies as stewards on this planet and stewards not just of the planet but she definitely needs some support right now especially", "towards the sacred journey of life that returns us to our divine source. It's not exclusive to Islam, it's not unique in Islam and yet for some people staying an individual faith silos is the only way they can maintain the integrity of their own faith. I live in Indonesia and Indonesia although it is Muslim majority has one of the most dynamic affirmations", "of a spiritual diversity. In fact, it's encoded in their constitution under the name Pantishila which means sort of multi-faith and I love this aspect because my Christian neighbors or my Hindu neighbors or Buddhist neighbors when I'm at a sacred temple like Bonobidor, I am still Muslim, I instill who I am and I'm still in awe and respect", "affirmed in that sacred space from the devotees of that space. And that's something that's very easy to do in Indonesia, and it's not easy to", "and um islam as they kind of grew in the weaving of a culture in the civilization it's very beautiful and we're the tropics so uh we have this pro profundity of growth you know you have to cut things back when you live in the tropic not like other places where you have like aggressively trying to make things grow right here you have kind of you know trim them back because", "you know, life for the entire universe. So it's something here, you know this is why this is my favorite country and I'm blessed to live here. It's something that...I think having the choice, that is I have the mobility, I have resources, I'm retired, I had the capability of coming here to exercise something that helps to promote the health and well-being of your entire self", "your spirit i think it's something that you know i can now selfishly do i raise five children they're adults i have seven grandchildren wow they're amazing um and i you know other than the coronavirus i try to see them every year yes um and they also travel so some will come here but you know the idea that i would be able to live in a place that helps to nurture", "in a three-dimensional reality um that's something that you know in a way i could say i was aspiring for it my whole life and now that i'm retired i just i just get to enjoy it why not why not we're this weekend we're spending some time with some of the mystical traditions and poetics of sufism but you know connected obviously as the uh", "your experience, if any with some of these kind of enlightened poetics of Islam and the embodiment thereof? Yes. So the esoteric or the Gnostic articulation of Islam depending on whose thoughts you are following they stem from the Prophet's own spiritual experiences and his immediate community particularly his son-in-law Ali upon them both be peace", "And from that grew what we call a silsila. I actually like the word in Arabic because it means where, you know, if you give something, someone receives it in a chain and when they receive it, they have it to give. Right? So we have a silisila that goes from the prophet or from Ali or from other figures across history.", "or Allah and all of us return to God or Allah. But some of us are impatient to have that at one minute with the law while we're here on the earth. So Sufis are considered spiritually impatient, want to live in the horizon of a divine breath for everything made until we die. And so the traditions have developed over the course of the 1400 years of Islam.", "where Sufi tradition and my teacher has, the simsila comes from his teacher and et cetera. And so there are so many interesting formulas and manifestations of this, so many people, the poetry not only of Kabir but also of Rumi, the lessons of love that we get from Rabi al-Adawiyya one of the most famous Muslim women, Sufi saints", "are about this yearning for this continual at one minute and the pains of the separation from our source. And what we have to do with each other, and with our heart in order to find little droplets of that shining upon us and from its shine on us to shine it out to others. This is a whole aesthetics of Islamic mysticism which is very much alive today", "alive today and very much in manifestation you know once again across different cultures with certain similarities and certain distinctions that makes it you know just all the more fascinating really it really thank you so much i just i want to just say that i received such a transmission of your devotion just when you speak and i could listen to you forever um thank you", "just really profound thank you for having me thank you and are you what's your next project are you working on a book right now or are you, what's happening? Actually I am an analog woman in the digital age this sort of grainy camera kind of let you know that i'm not quite there yet but um I had an interesting vision a couple years ago", "which I'm a person, again, I work in silos. My prayer and meditation room is separate from my office, it's separate from bedroom, you know? And I need these little separate silos of energy but I went into my office in the middle of the night and I sort of typed it all out and it's really just about what we're talking about really except in a digital version so I am launching more and more programs, individual blogs, videos", "videos, sharing of things like updating my altar with the new moon and stuff. I'm going to do more and more of The Divine Feminine in Islam online. And I've started with a Patreon page at the moment it's very small anybody is welcome to join just you know the lady Imam where I get to avoid the trolls and the naysayers because as I said I don't want to give any more energy to that. Yes. There are so many ways", "we can connect with other human beings who are open to that connection and to whom we are open, that you know I just want to... everything is love. Everything is life. Yet we're operating in the world with hateful darkness so I'm doing more and more of that online. I have to get assistance for younger people who understand things and you know just a box on the road to do the technology but it is starting", "And, you know, I got a little bit going on in YouTube and a little big going on, you different forums. But I want to bring it together under one umbrella. And somebody has just volunteered to help me sort of create a web page where I can join my Patreon and my Twitter and my Facebook and just have a go at meeting audiences where there are different places in the world. For example, I don't know where you are physically located. I forgot to ask, where are you actually in the", "We're in Venice Beach, California. Oh, okay. Yeah. That's my home state. Yeah, yeah. But we have the women all around the world who are watching right now because we're very global. That is the beauty of the technology today. Yes. And that is that you can reach out and touch even when you must observe social distancing. So I'm enjoying the journey. I'm confounded tremendously", "tremendously lots of mistakes, lots of frustrations because it is a new way of being in the world. It is. I really see it as helpful. Um, I really seen it as one of the gifts of, uh, you know, to us as human kind to continue to affirm the reality of our oneness and our onness with source and our planet. So yeah, I'm just trying to do more of that in the areas where I have some,", "Well, it's so important. And watch out when you tell me these kinds of things because I'm a real stage mom around this stuff. So I'm going to do what I can to push you to do it. And we have lots of resources too. But it's", "the lady, the lady. The Lady Imam. So it's www.patreon.com slash theladyimam all one word no underscore that's my Twitter I'm sorry that's what's the word? Instagram somewhere in there eventually according to the person who is most recently helping me everybody will go to my page instead of going to a Wikipedia page", "Wikipedia page that was created with interesting some truth and some not true. Okay, so you know if you just Google the lady Imam or my name it'll come up somewhere. Okay great. You're welcome really. Thank you. Anyone who wants to join. Thank You and we'll add this to... Also support my work. Yeah yeah it's so beautiful and we will make sure we add all of the links to this interview as well. Thankyou for your time bless you and bless the work that you are doing and I hope to connect with you again soon.", "Thank you. Stay in the light. We hope that your hearts are warmed each day, stay safe, Black Lives Matter. Hope to see you again. Thank you, take care.", "the conversation, please feel free to share with your people, share with friends and family. Rate the podcast below and also subscribe." ]
amina_mccloud/_Pendekatan Gender Dalam Studi Islam_ _ Amina Wadu_CJ3c3N6v854&pp=ygURQW1pbmEgV2FkdWQgaXNsYW0%3D_1742917611.opus	[ "Terutama adanya ketidakadilan gender ya, terutama persoalan ketidakanilan gender Yang kedua yaitu apa pendekatan yang digunakan oleh Aminah Wadud dalam mengkaji studi gender dalam Islam Nah dua pertanyaan ini akan sama-sama kita diskusikan pada video kali ini", "Dia merupakan seorang keturunan Afro-Amerika. Walaupun dia seorang ma'alaf, tapi dia cukup banyak mengenal ilmu Islam dan dia juga sempat belajar di timur terutama di Mesir, Cairo al-Azhar. Dan dia juga banyak belajarnya S2 dan S3nya, belaja di Amerika", "dan berkulang-kukul antiki di barat nah itu sedikit tentang Amin Hawadud ya kemudian apa sih sumbang si pemikirannya dalam bukunya ini dia sumbangsi pemikiran mengenai studi jendel yaitu pada studi Alquran dan Tafsir dalam melalui karyanya yaitun Quran and Mormon tadi", "Apa sih yang melanda Amin Awadud dalam karya-karyanya ini? Dia mendebati adanya kesenjangan antara wanita muslim di segala bidang. Ini disebabkan oleh penafsiran tradisional atau mistik dan didominasi kaum laki-laki sehingga bias jendel dan menindukan perempuan. Dan juga dia melihat bahwasannya penafsan, penafseran tradisonal itu", "banyak yang bias gender karena penafsirannya yang atomistik atau partikular dan juga penafsyuran-penafsyiran yang tradisional ini didominasi oleh kaum laki-laki sehingga penafsilanya dihasilkan yaitu bias gender dan menjadikan perempuan padahal menurut dia dalam pengajian yang ditemukan dalam mengkaji Al-Quran", "Dia mengatakan bahwasanya Al-Quran ini padahal sumber nilai tertinggi secara adil menundukkan laki-laki dan perempuan itu secara setara Jadi aneh menurut dia dalam kenyataannya laki dan perompuan yang dia lihat itu tidak adil", "Mempunyai had dan kewajiban yang sama Dalam pertanyaannya ini Aminah wadud konsen pada Merekonstruksi Kembali penafsiran Al-Quran sehingga Melahirkan penafsyaran baru Yang berkadilan gender Lalu latar belakang Kenapa Lahirnya pemikiran atau pendekatan Yang digunakan aminah Wadud dalam sendiri gender Dalam Al-Kur'an", "Karena dia konsen pada studi penafsiran Al-Quran Di sini, dia ada argumen dan asumsinya terhadap penafsanan Al-quran Pertama, dia mengatakan bahwasannya tidak ada metode tafsir yang tidak benar objektif Karena menurutnya subyektivitas penafssiran itu tidak bisa dihidupkan kata dia", "mengkaji suatu kata atau teks dalam bahasa kemudian juga dia mengkajipkan teks dari penafsirnya untuk menarik pemahaman dari nasab Quran jadi ada dua yang dia pahami dalam penafsilannya itu, dia merefleksi maksud dari teks dan kemudiaan dia mengetahui proteks itu apa itu protekst? nanti akan kita bahas", "bahas lainnya mungkin kalau teman-teman lihat Minawadil ini menambahkan suatu metode penafsiran atau kalau kita melihat penafsilannya modelan yaitu yang dinamakan Hermenetika kemudian dalam bukunya ini terutama kita akan sedikit khususnya membahas tentang pendahulannya karena kita tidak mungkin membahasi secara segera", "secara sulungan bukunya kita akan membedah pendahuluannya mengenai tentang persepsi perempuan dalam pengaruhi interpretasi Al-Quran nah, dia mengklasifikasi penafsiran tentang wanita atau perepuan ini menjadi tiga kategori yang pertama yaitu penafsil tradisional model penafslian ini ada baik itu dari", "klasik hingga modern nah, tafsir tradisional ini secara yang ia pahami itu bertujuan menafsirkan menurut kemampuan dan cara ideologi memfasil walaupun tafsiri tradisinal ini banyak menerikan cara-cara penafsiran baik itu ada cara fikih gramatikal kemudian cara kalamin dan cara-cera lainnya", "Tafsir tradisional ini cenderung atau mistik ya Karena penafsilannya yang partikular Dan tidak menunjukkan adanya korelasi suatu ayat dengan ayat lain secara tematis Walaupun sebenarnya yang dia katakan tafsir tradisional ini Menunjukan adanya merasa baik Tapi itu masih sangat kurang untuk menunjukkan hubungan antara satu ayat dan ayat yang lain", "Urayan gramatikal dan sintesis bahasa dalam tradisional ini masih sangat kurang Dan juga yang paling krusial, tafsir tradisinal ini itu sangat eksklusif pada penafsir dari laki-laki gitu Dan kurangnya penafsyar pada perempuan Karena kenapa menurut dia pengalaman perepuan ini menuruti membantu ya Penafsyaran yang dihasilkan terhadap gadila gender", "karena yang dia lihat penasaran yang dilakukan banyak oleh laki-laki ini atau pengalaman dari laki laki ini dia menghasilkan bias gender dan kecenderung menirukan perempuan ataupun mendiskriminasi perepuan kemudian tafsir kedua yaitu Tafsir Reaktif", "sejumlah hambatan yang dialami kaum perempuan, yang menganggap bahwa sumber hambatan dan problematika kaum perekpuan berasal dari teks Al-Quran. Tafsir aktif ini banyak digunakan atau dilakukan oleh para peremuan ataupun aktivis feminis perembuan namun tafsir ini dia mengangga bahwa", "Al-Quran Dan ya Cenderung dan Nafsirannya cenderung tentang Pesan Al-Kur'an Dan ya Dan dia Memanfaatkan status Status kelemahan perempuan itu Untuk pembenaran Atas reaksi mereka Menurut Aminah Wadud Tarsil reaktif ini Tidak bisa membedakan Antara mana yang", "mana yang menasar Al-Quran, dan yang kedua, mana yang penafsiran Al-Quran. Karena sebabnya itu kurangnya analisis terhadap Al-quran yang kurang komprehensif. Nah, itu tafsir yang kedualah. Kemudian tafsiran tiga yaitu tafsiri holistik.", "interpretasinya terhadap gender karena tafsir holistik ini menurut dia yaitu tafsiri yang mempertimbangkan kembali seluruh metode penafsiran al-deran serta mengaitkannya dengan berbagai persoalan sosial, moral, ekonomi politik mawadaran termasuk dalam masalah perempuan. Penafsir yang dikenakan Amin Awadud ini dalam tafsiran holistis ini adalah", "yang sudah menjadi kerangka penafsiran laki-laki nah, tafsir alistik ini nanti akan kita bahas bagaimana pendekatan yang digunakan kemudian apa saja kerangkauan metodologi yang diguna sehingga penafsilannya yang dilakukan terhadap Alquran itu tidak bias jadinya selanjutnya mengenai pembacaan diantara daftar istilah laki dan pengumuman dalam Alqur'an Aminah wa Adhut", "menentang adanya istilah-istilah yang diambil gender sehingga ketika dia menemukan istilah istilah yang bergender, dia juga menjadi neutral misalnya setiap jamaah maskulin dalam kata yahu halazina amanu maksud orang-orang beriman disini bukan hanya ditunjukkan kepada kaum maskulin walaupun disini merupakan jamaat maskulin", "jamaah masmurid, tapi dalam jamaat disini dia juga mencakup laki-laki dan perempuan. Dan sehingga dia tidak hanya mencakuk pada hanya laki saja gitu, tapi juga mencahub laki dan perpuan Sehingga menurutnya ayat yang mengandung petunjuk kepada wanita atau bersama laki laki dianalisis dengan metode tafsir Alquran bialquran artinya dia menafsirkan ketika dia menemukan", "Ayat yang menunjukkan adanya laki-laki dan perempuan Di situ dianalisis dengan metode tafsir Alquran dengan alquran hatinya, alqurn itu menafsikan dengan ayatnya sendiri Dalam cara menganalisikannya Itu ada 5 caranya Yang pertama yaitu menurut konteksnya Kemudian yaituk menuruti kontekst pembahasan yang sama", "Yang ketiga yaitu menurut sudut bahasa dan struktur sintasis yang sama. Yang keempat yaitulah menurkd sudut prinsip Alquran, dan yang kelima menurud weltenstung Alquan Selanjutnya mengenai prior text yang tadi kita bahas apa itu prior text? Nah tadi yang saya katakan prior text itu seperti konteks di sekitar penasun itu", "Setiap usaha memahami suatu teks itu biasanya mengandung ke-teks, yaitu persepsi, keadaan, bahasa dan latar belakang dari penafsir itu. Dalam pembacaan perspektif gender khususnya tentang apa yang membentuk perilaku feminim ataupun maskulin dalam masyarakat itu didasarkan pada konteks budaya seseorang", "Pure context ini sangat mempengaruhi terhadap hasil penafsiran dari perspektif gender itu. Apakah nanti penafsyuran itu dapat dilacak, apakah dia berada di sisi gender atau tidak, itu salah satunya dapat diketahui dari pure text, dari sepenasaran itu sendiri. Kemudian terhadapan perbedaan gender, walaupun yang dikatakan Aminawan disini", "di sini laki-laki dan perempuan itu sama ya tapi dia juga mengakui adanya anatomi pembedaan antara laki laki dan perumpuan memang dia secara biologis yang mengakuin laki, pere, pilih laki itu berbeda tetapi dia mengatakan bahwasannya itu bukan berarti laki dn pere itu secara hakiki itu berbeda karena keduanya mempunyai hak dan kewajiban", "dan kewajiban yang sama untuk mengatasi pemahaman perbedaan gender ini menurut Aminah Wadud umat Islam harus memahami prinsip ngomong dalam Al-Quran dan kemudian menerapkan prinsipe tersebut sesuai konteks budaya masyarakat misalnya ayat-ayat hijab ya menuruti tentang ayat hijabi ini merupakan awal nya pakaian yang digunakan oleh orang kaya", "dan orang yang jabatannya berpengalaman gila nah, kain hijab ini digunakan oleh para bangsawan atau mangkai itu sebagai tanda perlindungan ataupun sedang dipingit pemakaian hijab disini bukan hanya hak istimewa kalangan atas tetapi yang mengandung prinsip umum tentang pendorban kesepanan pada setiap perempuan walaupun dalam konteks", "dalam konteks ayat tentang turunnya yang hijab ini dilatar belakangi oleh sebagai tanda perlindungan dan khususkan hanya perempuan yang kaya dan berpengaruh tapi dalam pemaknaannya apa yang digunakan penafsiran yang diguna kan Aminah Wadud ini terutama dia mengadopsi", "yaitu double movementnya itu, dia mengambil prinsip umum dari turutnya ayat ini. Yaitu mengandung prinsep tentang pendorongan kesempatan pada setiap perempuan. Nah itu contoh dari penasaran gender yang dilakukan oleh Aminah Waduh. Selain itu, Dia juga membukakan kata kunci dan konsep dalam alam kebaikan. Karena menurut Dia, setiab kata mempunyai makna dasar dan makna rasional", "Kata itu digunakan Yang saya lihat Memang Amin Awad ini juga Menggunakan analisis semaktif Karena menurut dia setiap kata-kata Dalam akuran misalnya tentang Ayat Qawwab Kemudian Fathala Kemudia Andada Roja dan sebagainya Disitu selain dia mempunyai Makna dasar, dia juga mempunya Makna relasional yang khusus Digunakan dalam akurat", "Ia menggunakan Hermenetika Al-Quran. Ia terinspirasi oleh Hermeneticanya Dablu Mermon Fazlur Rahman, di mana dalam Hermenethicanya ia berusaha mencari prinsip konteks ayat Al-quran dan untuk memahami teks al-qur'an itu diperlukan melihat krotekst atau kondisi sekitar penafsir", "Untuk menganalisis istilah-istilah Jenderal dalam Al-Quran Nah semua pendekatan yang ini Yang ia gunakan untuk mendapatkan Penasaran al-Qur'an yang bergantian Jadi itu saja Dalam video ini kurang lebihnya mohon maaf Wassalamualaikum warahmatullahi wabarakatuh" ]
amina_mccloud/Presentasi Pemikiran Tafsir Kontemporer Aminah Wad_IoOK6zV_8Ec&pp=ygURQW1pbmEgV2FkdWQgaXNsYW0%3D_1742934795.opus	[ "Assalamualaikum Wr. Wb Saya Muhammad Dikaikanguloni dari kelas 4C jurusan ilmu Al-Quran dan Tafsir Fakultas Usulin Adab dan Nakwah di NCR Jatuh Cirebuan akan sedikit membawakan tentang makalah Aminah Wadud Sejak tahun 1800an gender dan realisme sudah muncul membawa misi kesamaan hak dan kahlian bagi perempuan", "Pemirsaan laki-laki, maka patriarki harus dihapus.", "dan muncullah pemikiran feminisme liberal oleh Mary Walstenocraft dalam bukunya The Vindication of the Rights of Women tahun 1975. Pemikirannya tercurahkan, berembrio dari ini munculah teori feminisme libera oleh pemikiran feminisme radikal bermetamorposa", "bukunya The Vindication Ties of Women tahun 1975 pemikirannya tercurahkan berembilio dari ini muncullah teori feminisme ribelal oleh pemikiran feminisme Mary Waller Steiner Krupp yang berusaha menunjukkan hak-hak perempuan dengan menghadirkan kegagasan ideal mengenai pendidikan bagi perepuan. Perempuan adalah suatu tujuan lagi dirinya agen yang bernalar dan memiliki kemampuan untuk", "Tidak hanya di rumah dirawat suaminya, kemudian merambat dan berkembanglah teori feminisme eksistensialis seperti dalam pemikiran Simone de Beauvoir yang mengadopsi pemikirannya Satri. Keberadaan perempuan ibarat etre potar les autres bagi orang lain dan sebagai etre pour soi yaitu cara berada manusia yang berkesadaran dan memiliki kebebasan.", "Justifikasi dalam gender dan feminisme sudah seharusnya diimplementasikan pada era saat ini. Upaya kesetaraan antara perempuan dan laki-laki masih sulit untuk dibucurkan jika wacana publik selalu dipengaruhi oleh pemahaman terhadap teks-teks keagamaan yang masih mempengesampingkan gender dan masih bersifat fundamentalis. Pada aturan human sociality gender adalah salah satu isu yang cukup ramai dibincangkan mengiringi perkembangan pemikiran Islam,", "salah anggapan bahwa kerudukan perempuan lebih rendah dari laki-laki atau perepuan tidak sederajat dengan laki. Salah satu penyebab terburuknya posisi peremuan adalah bias penafsiran Al-Quran dalam gender. Dalam beberapa produk penafsyiran Al Quran, terdapat pandangan yang tidak akomodatif terhadap nilai-nilai kemanusiaan kaum perembuan. Perempuan tidak diakui sebagai manusia utuh,", "Posisi laki-laki dalam kehidupan Dengan kata lain wanita muslim tidak memiliki status yang sama dengan laki wadud Kesempatan ini Aminah Wadud meyakini bahwa menurut Islam Perempuan secara primordial kosmologi Ekstologi spiritual dan moral Dimaksudkan sebagai manusia yang sempurna Dan memilki peran perempuan masing-masing", "Setara dengan kaum pria, realitas dalam Islam menunjukkan kenapa peran perempuan terbelakang daripada laki-laki. Wadud ingin membangkitkan peran Perempuan dengan kestaraan dalam relasi gender dengan berprinsip pada keadilan sosial dan kesteraan gender. Wadiut juga ingin menyelamatkan perepuan dari konservatisme Islam maka dari itu model pemikiran kritis atas pemahaman Tiz'al Quran adalah menjadi solusi agar ketimpangan yang berbasis gender tidak semakin merajalela.", "Inyah Wadud juga berpendapat tentang bagaimana Islam adalah agama feminis dan bagaiman mencoba untuk menafsirkan dan membaca kembali Al-Quran dalam cahaya feminismu. Menurutnya banyak hal yang menyebabkan penafsiran fatal tentang perempuan, kultur masyarakat, kesalahan paradigma, tatar belakang para penafsil yang kebanyakan dari laki-laki. Oleh karena itu ayat tentang peremohon mendakwa ditafsihkan oleh peremohon sendiri berdasarkan persepsi pengalaman dan pemikiran peremmohon itu sendiri.", "perempuan itu sendiri selanjutnya biografi Aminah Wadud Aminnah Wadude lahir pada 25 Desember 1952 dengan nama Maria Tesli di Bethesda, Maryland Amerika Serikat yang terletak di bagian barat laut Washington DC ayahnya adalah seorang metodis menteri dan ibunya keturunan dari buddhak muslim Arab Berber dan Afrika pada tahun 1972 ia mengucapkan sahadat", "Namanya resmi diubah menjadi Aminah Wadud Dipilih untuk mencerminkan afiliasi agamanya Ia menerima gelar BS dari The University of Pennsylvania antara tahun 1970 dan 1975 Dalam karir akademiknya, Aminat Wadu pernah menjadi Profesor of Religion and Philosophy Profesur Agama dan Filsafat di Virginia Commonwealth University", "diberi oleh lembaga Nir Labah Sisters in Islam dan menjadi panduan buat beberapa pengikut, penggiat hak-hak perempuan serta akademisi. Buku itu dilarang beredar di Universitas Arab karena isinya dianggap provokatif dan membangkitkan sentimen agama. Waduh dikontak untuk jangka 3 tahun sebagai asisten profesor di Universiti Malaysia di bidang studi Al-Quran di Malaysia antara tahun 1989 dan 1992.", "Mulai pada tahun 2008 sampai sekarang, ia adalah seorang profesor tamu di pusat agama dan cross-cultural studies di Universitas Kejah Mada di Yogyakarta, Indonesia. Di masa mudanya, ia mendapatkan gelar keserjanaan dari University of Pennsylvania yang kemudian dilanjutkan pada 1988 untuk menaiki gelar MA di Near Eastern Youth Studies dan VHD di Arabic and Islamic Studies.", "Wadud merasa tidak cukup hanya dengan memperhatikan pengetahuan yang telah diperolehnya dari negaranya sendiri. Maka ia pun beranjak ke negeri piramid untuk meningkatkan studi tentang kehistimewaannya di American University in Cairo. Ia memperdalam pembelajaran seputar Al-Quran dan tafsir di Cairo University. Untuk menyempurnakannya, ia mengambil pendidikan kursus tentang kefilsafatan di Al-Azhar University. Telah sempurnalah jendang pendidikannya yang dilalui", "Wanita di dalam Al-Quran, dipengaruhi oleh pemikiran Fadzul Rahman. Hal ini bisa kita lihat dari metode dan pendekatan yang digunakan dalam menafsirkan ayat-ayat Al-Kur'an. Yang berhubungan dengan gender sama dengan metode yang dimiliki oleh Fadzil Rahman Dalam bukunya Inside the Gender Jihad Ia menulis bahwa ia telah menjadi The Single Parent lebih dari 30 tahun bagi 4 orang anaknya", "Sebagai seorang tokoh studi Islam dan aktivis gender sudah sewajarnya memiliki karya-karya beredar di masyarakat Ada pun beberapa karya beliau, yang pertama Quran and Women Yang kedua Inside the Gender Jihad Dan yang ketiga Woman Report in Islam Selanjutnya yaitu metode pemikiran tafsir kontemporer Aminah Wadud Yang pertama pemikirannya tentang penafsiran Al-Quran", "Menunjuk pada pemikiran Faslur Rahman, Aminah Wadud berpijak pada pemahaman bahwa penafsiran memiliki nilai yang relatif sehingga dari pemikirannya ini mengunculkan suatu rumus baru yang membedakan antara agama dan pemikiraan agama Framework pemikian ini masih berkutat seputar dikotomi antara yang absolut dan relatif Pada satu sisi agama itu bersifat absolut yang berarti bahwa agama mengandung kebenaran mutlak yang tidak dapat digambugat", "Maka pemikiran keagamaan bersifat relatif karena merupakan hasil interpretasi terhadap teks agama. Oleh karena sifat pemikiran keagaman adalah hasil pikir para ulama terhadapan makna sebenarnya dari teks, maka hasil pemahaman tersebut tidak berarti memiliki kebenaran absolut dan pemikian agama yang relatif. Menurut pemikiri yang tidak sepakat dengan penggunaan metode hermeneutik dalam menafsirkan Al-Quran akan menyebabkan hasil penafsiran ulama tempo dulu", "Yang merupakan refleksi dari pemilihan-pilihan para mufasir. Akan tetapi seringkali pembaca terjebak dengan refleksi subjektivitas karena memang membedakan antara penafsiran dan teks yang ditafsirkan itu sendiri. Sehingga kebenaran penafshiran sering kali dianggap sebagai sesuatu yang koresponden dengan teks. Padahal sesungguhnya ada reduksi dalam proses penafsyiran tersebut. Aminah Wadud menyatakan bahwa hermenetik diperlukan untuk memahami ayat-ayat Al-Quran,", "Terutama untuk mengungkap makna Al-Quran yang tidak dapat diungkap oleh para mufasir klasik Untuk itu metode monomantik sangat dibutuhkan Wadud menegaskan bahwa menjadi penafsir itu harus kreatif Dalam arti bahwa penafsyiran tidak boleh meninggalkan tiga aspek Yaitu yang pertama ruang, waktu dan budaya Analisis Al-Kur'an adalah kalambungloh Dan dalam penafskyirkannya diperlukan metode yang sesuai dengan kedudukan Al-Gur'ani sendiri", "Rasulullah, para sohabat Tabi'in serta para ulama yang memiliki Autoritas keilmuan Melalui bukunya Quran and Women Wadud berusaha membongkar cara menafsirkan Al-Quran model klasik Yang dinilainya menghasilkan tafsir yang Bias gender atau menindas perempuan Amina wadud untuk Tidak menolak Al-Kur'an Tetapi yang dilakukan adalah Membongkar metode tafsiri klasis Dan menggantikannya dengan Metode tafsiri agaya baru yang diberi nama Tafsiri tauhin", "Jadi Aminah Wadud disini itu tidak Menyangkal kebenaran tafsir dari yang dulu Tafsir klasik, tidak menyalahkan Yang Aminahu wadud Ini sendiri itu Metodenya ya Bukan hasil penafsilannya Jadi hasil penafsirannya ya oke boleh saja Mungkin benar tapi wadid punya Terobosan baru tentang Penafsiran metode baru yaitu tafsiri tauhid Dengan metode tafsri ini Meskipun al-Quran nya sama Produk hukum yang diperoleh akan sangat berbeda", "Wadud membuat klasifikasi penafsiran terhadap perempuan menjadi tiga kategori penafshirannya yaitu tradisional, relatif dan holistik Menurut wadud model penafsyirannya tidak dapat ditemui dalam kategorik-kategori pentafsiran klasik atau tradisinal Oleh karena maka penafslian tradisonal dianggap tidak mampu merepasikan pandangan dan ide dari Al-Quran Terlebih lagi penafsilin tradisial sangat dinominasi oleh Mufassilul Laki-Laki", "Sehingga seperangkat visi, persepsi maupun pengalaman dari Mufassir sangat mempengaruhi penafsiran ayat tersebut Aminah Wadud mengkritisi bahwa salah satu elemen yang harus diatasi dalam melakukan pembacaan dan penafsyiran adalah Bahasa dan Prior Text Dari siap membaca yaitu konteks budaya dimana teks dibaca Prior Text itulah menurut Aminoh Wadid Yang paling berpengaluh sebagai perspektif dan kesimpulan pembacanya dalam melakukannya", "Pemikiran konjamburat yang kedua yaitu rekonstruksi pemikiran tentang perempuan. Islam adalah agama yang sangat menghargai perembuan. Hal ini terbukti dengan adanya ayat-ayat dalam Al-Quran yang menjelaskan pentingnya peran peremuan, Islam dalam kehidupan. Al-Kur'an secara tegas memandang laki-laki dan peremmuan secara sama akan keberadaannya sehingga eksistensi pereмuan merupakan kekuatan penyeimbang bagi laki.", "Penafsiran membuat sejumlah pilihan yang sifatnya subjektif tanpa mementingkan maksud ayat yang sebenarnya. Maka Aminah berusaha mengubah paradigma pemikiran terhadap perempuan selama ini melalui gaya penafsirannya. Aminnah mencoba melakukan rekonstruksi metodologi sebagaimana menafsikan Al-Quran agar dapat menghasilkan sebuah penafsanan yang sensitif gender dan berkeadilan.", "Aminah mencoba melakukan rekonstruksi terhadap penafsiran klasik yang syarat dengan bias patriarki. Menurut Aminahl, Al-Quran merupakan sumber nilai yang tertinggi yang secara adil memandang laki-laki dan perempuan. Oleh karena itu perintah yang ada dalam Al-Kuran harus didafsirkan dalam konteks historis yang spesifik yaitu kondisi saat Al- Quran diturunkan harus diperhatikan dan juga latar belakang seorang mufasir.", "Tidaklah pada Al-Quran dan As-Sunnah, melainkan terhadap warisan tafsiran yang lama. Kesatuan jenis antara laki-laki dan perempuan menyebabkan kesetaraan pada keduanya dalam menjalankan syariat. Karena jenisi manusia berbagai menjadi dua yang berbeda dalam sebagian karakter dan sifatnya. Maka syariat yang sempurna adalah menyatarakan persamaan keduannya. Tentu dengan memperhatikan dan menjaga perbedaan yang ada pada kedoanya.", "Al-Quran, Quran Surat al-Baqarah ayat 228 Ayat ini menjelaskan aturan-aturan Allah SWT Mengenai keluarga yang menjadi masyarakat kecil Walaupun terdapat persamaan pada keduanya Tetapi tetap mempunyai peran dan fungsinya masing-masing Dalam bukunya Aminah mengingatkan bahwa laki-laki dan perempuan Hanyalah kategori spesies manusia Keduanya dikarunis potensi yang sama atau sederajat Dari hal penciptaan", "hingga balasan yang kelak mereka terima di akhirat. Satu-satunya nilai pembeda adalah ketakwaan, itulah yang ditegaskan Al-Quran, rujukan dari segala rujukkan keislaman. Al-Kur'an mengungkapkan hal ini secara tegas dan jelas dalam kenyataannya ada sebagian kaum perempuan yang mengalami keterpurukan akibat dari perbedaan dengan kaum laki-laki. Hal ini disebabkan sebagainya oleh kondisi buruk yang menimpa kaum perekpuan dalam masyarakat Islam pasca kolonial.", "Begitu pernyataan itu mengemuka, metode untuk menjawabnya perlu dikembangkan dalam merana kesajaran Islam Menurut Aminah salah satu aspek penting metode hermenetik adalah mengatasi keterputusasaan dengan Al-Quran Namun semua aspek orisinal ini telah diabaikan Malahan kesenderungan yang muncul terus saja mencampur adukan antara karya-karya ulama dulu dan sekarang dengan Al-'Quran", "mempertentangkan sumber-sumber non Islam dengan sumber islam original sehingga hukumannya menarik prinsip-prinsip Alquran dan menerapkan pada masalah masa tertentu tapi justru berusaha menariki berbagai prinsipe dari sumber non Islam kemudian menerapkannya pada Alqur'an akhirnya, kisah khusus tentang perempuan dalam Alqura'n memiliki dua implikasi penting yang pertama ia akan membuktikan dalam ungkapan yang spesifik Aminah menyarankan bahwa agar repansi Alqu'ran terus terjaga ia terus-terusan menerus ditafsir ulang", "Kedua, kemajuan peradaban tercermin dari tingkat partisipasi perempuan dalam masyarakat dan pengakuan pentingnya sumber daya perembuan. Dalam koneg Islam dan kaum muslim, pemahaman atas konsep peremuan dalam Al-Quran dibangun lebih dari 1400 tahun yang lalu menunjukkan tingkat peradiban yang maju. Menurut Aminah Wadud, bukan tes Al-Kuran yang membatasi peremuan, melainkan penafsiran terhadap Al-Quran itu sendiri yang mematasinya.", "Harus memasukkan perempuan ke dalam wacana Agar mereka mendapat legitimasi Sementara perembuan muslim hanya perlu Memahami Al-Quran saja, yakni tidak Terbelenggu oleh penafsiran-penafsirannya Yang eksklusif dan mengekang Bila mereka ingin mendapatkan kebebasan yang Tak terbantahkan Contoh Amina Waghid disini mengambil ayat Surat Al-Nisa Ayat 1", "Kisah asal-usul manusia versi Al-Quran Tanpa ada kejelasan tentang Adam dan Hawa Namun ayat itu sering dipahami sebagai penciptaan Adam dan Hawa Padahal jika dilihat dari akar katanya, kata nafs adalah mu'annas atau feminis Mengapa ditaksirkan Adam? Aminah menambahkan bahwa kata naps dalam Al-Kur'an hanya menunjukkan bahwaseluruh umat manusia berasal dari asal usul yang sama dengan tegas dikatakan The Qur'anic version of", "creation of human being is not expressed in gender term mengenai kata mim dalam bahasa Arab mempunyai dua arti yaitu dari dan sama atau semacam Aminah mempertanyakan mengapa para mufasir klasik memilih pada pemilihan makna dari, dari kata Mim mengapa bukan pada yang sejenisnya padahal dalam ayat lain misalnya dalam surat At-Taubah ayat 128 kata mimp diartikan sama jenisnya", "Begitu pula kata Zawis sebenarnya bersikap netral Kata Zaws yang jamaahnya Azwaz Sering digunakan untuk menyebutkan tanaman Dalam Quran Surat Al-Rahman ayat 52 Dan hewan pada surat Hud ayat 40 Disamping untuk manusia Aminah juga menyayangkan mengapa para mufasir tradisional Jatuh pada makna istri yaitu Hawa Yang berjenis kelamin perempuan Dan menafsiran kata zawis", "Atau laki-laki bisa dikategorikan sebagai pemimpin ketika mereka bisa memenuhi hak-hak dan kewajiban Mereka terhadap suami atau terhadapan istri, atau teradapat perempuannya Jadi kalau tidak bisa mempenuhi hal-hal tersebut maka mereka tidak bisa dikatakan sebagai pemimpin Konsep kepemimpinan suami dalam rumah tangga yang selama sudah mapan di kalangan kaum muslimin bagi para penghuni Sepaham yang menempatkan suami sebagai pemikir rumah tanggal tidak sejalan", "bertentangan dengan ide utama feminisme yaitu kesetaraan laki-laki dan perempuan maka konsekuensi logis dari konsep kesetaran laki dan perampuan adalah terciptanya status istri yang setara dengan suami memahami maksud dari kepemimpinan lelaki terhadap peremuan yang disebutkan dalam ayat diatas menurut Muhammad Abduh adalah pemimpinannya yang memiliki atas arti menjaga, melindungi, menguasai dan mencukupi kebutuhan istri jika suami tidak masuk ke dalam kategori semua ini", "tidak bisa menjaga, melindungi dan menguasai atau mencukui kebutuhan istri maka suami tersebut tidak bisa dikadekan sebagai pemimpin selanjutnya yang berakhir atau penutup kesimpulan praktek diskriminasi terhadap perempuan juga terjadi di kalangan masyarakat Islam meski pun aktivitas ini tidak mendapatkan dasar hukumnya dalam Al-Quran dan Al-Hadis akan tetapi menafsiran sebagian kecil orang yang menamakan dirinya memiliki ilmu agama Islam", "mengatakan bahwa perempuan tidak boleh begini dan begitu. Pernyataan ini diklaim tak ada hukumnya dalam Al-Quran dan hadis, sehingga masyarakat Islam harus mengikutinya tanpa mempertanyakan lagi sumbernya. Padahal tidak ada ayat Al-Kur'an atau hadis yang merendahkan perembuan, bahkan kedatangan Rasulullah dan Islam itu sendiri justru untuk mengangkat harikat dan martabat peremmuan. Apabila terjadi perlakuan negatif terhadap perempuan di kalangan umat rus Islam", "dalam masyarakat. Tentu saja hal ini sangat berbeda dengan konsep Islam sebenarnya, sebagaimana telah ditertera dalam Al-Quran dan hadis bahwa setelah Islam hadir di muka bumi kondisi kemampuan berubah menjadi lebih baik Ketika diskriminasi terhadap perempuan juga terjadi di kalangan umat Islam maka yang selalu dikoreksi adalah masyarkatnya atau interpretasinya bukan ajaran agama Islam sendiri Islam sudah benar yang salah itu kadang perspektif orangnya saja", "Maka orang tersebut yang menjadi pemimpin. Laki-laki menjadi pemimpin saat mampu memberi nafkah. Ketika kemampuan ini tidak dimiliki lagi, maka status kemungkinan juga beralih. Begitu juga dengan hukum poligami dan saksi perempuan. Realisasinya harus dilihat pada konstek zamannya. Jadi intinya Aminah Wadud ini memperjuangkan tentang kesetaraannya. Yang di mana ketika seorang itu lebih dominan atau ketika laki-leki itu lebih dominant, ya maka dia patut disebut sebagai pemimpian.", "disebut sebagai pemimpin sebaliknya ketika perempuan yang lebih dominan dalam segi harta ataupun halilang lainnya maka perembuan juga patut diacungi atau dijuluki sebagai pemimpin kurang lebih sekian penjelasan dari mangkala tentang Aminah Wadud ini kurang-kurangnya mohon maaf Wassalamualaikum Wr. Wb" ]
amina_mccloud/Prof_ Aminah McCloud at Shaykha Fest 2013_-WqM7eB8quM&pp=ygUVQW1pbmFoIE1jQ2xvdWQgIGlzbGFt_1742899523.opus	[ "As-salamu alaykum. I am really excited to be participating in this year's Shaykhah Fest with women who, some of whom I have met others of whom i have not missed my name is Amina Makhlouq and I direct the Islamic World Studies program at DePaul University", "University where we have a major in Islamic studies, a major and minor, and students matriculating through the program. We are very active as a community working across the country and internationally but I just look forward to hanging out with women scholars", "who may not be scholars. Hopefully we can be of some inspiration and they can be in some inspiration to us. Look forward to seeing all of you in June. Salaam Alaikum" ]
amina_mccloud/Religie rem of katalysator voor emancipatie Amina _uuqa2KJ5wSg&pp=ygURQW1pbmEgV2FkdWQgaXNsYW0%3D_1743318395.opus	[ "I begin as always in the name of Allah whose grace I seek in this and all other matters.", "English because I'm very excited about this topic and also because just a few months ago, I presented my first paper on this topic. And I had 45 minutes and it took 55 and I never got through all of my pages so I will not even bring the paper out. What I want to talk about actually has to cross over both time", "But as a theologian, ultimately I want to make its relationship to the system of Islam. And it's been called Islamic feminism and this is actually a fairly recent term and the way to arrive at it I think is to take you a little bit on the journey that I myself have", "because I have been engaged in Islam and gender thought for 40 years, and it's only been five years that I recognize myself as an Islamic feminist. So how did I get there? I think I will start with 1995 with the Beijing conference", "International Women's Conference in Beijing was very overt, very noticeable. And at some point along the way we decided that we should get together to form a caucus, a Muslim women's caucus and all they did was shout at each other because different perspectives were coming together and they had not learned a language", "The two loudest voices and the two voices that had the most support both within their own nationalities and internationally were the two voice that I need to bring into conversation to help you see about the evolution of Islam feminism. Now, I'm going to talk then about three strategies for Muslim women's reform starting with these", "is much greater diversity. So on the one hand, I would say we have the Islamist voice and the Islam's voice is connected with the political Islam agenda most notably that agenda says if we just implement Sharia our lives as Muslims will be perfect. On", "The other very loud voice is characterized by a kind of secular feminism because it is important in their perspective of gender reform that we leave religion out of the debates. Clearly there is not an easy meeting point between these two voices,", "but also I want to say a little bit more about the evolution of each of the voices because if you look in most majority countries, a radical change in our whole Ummah, our whole global community came about in the 20th century with", "nations, and not just Muslim majority nations. But for many nations the end of the empire was the beginning of colonialism. We were not introduced to the nation-state idea which is the current reality. We will not introduce to it without a very negative imperialistic thrust. Some countries wanted", "And this is the way in which Muslim countries came into the nation-state phenomena, so of course there was some resistance.", "what would be the nature of their own polity, their policies and their citizenship. Women and men stood side by side to establish their own national identities but the end result and the clear demarcation of at least many of the nation states because as recently as last year I think we're still having new ones", "the clear demarcation of the nation states came into being without women necessarily being the beneficiaries to the same extent as the men along whose side they had fought. In the context of Muslim majority countries, this created for many women a clarity that", "had to be addressed specifically and directly, and not simply subsumed under the notion of citizenship. Because what actually happened at the beginning of the nation state is that women were not equal citizens in their own newly formed or articulated or clarified nation states. Take for example today I was just in Jordan last week", "marries someone other than a Jordanian man, her children will not be Jordanian citizens. They cannot hold a Jordan passport but if a Jordan man marries anybody from anywhere his children will be Jordanians and can't hold a Jordani passport so you see the notion of", "dished out to women and men. And this is the beginning of women's activities in the context of the Muslim world that leads to the modern era. Women began to form organizations, intellectual culture clubs, and to also educate themselves to be able to participate fully in the benefits of their new nation states. So we're talking late 19th century early 20th", "early 20th century. Now when women were advocating, when Muslim were advocating in this time they would advocate on behalf of women's rights for things like universal education, for access to public health obviously to citizenship rights and the like. They did so as Muslim women but", "of upper and middle class, they were themselves becoming educated. And they were also aware that the culture in which they were born, which includes Islam was not the only culture in the world. I call this part of the global perspective. The global perspective is extremely important to us today because our world is interconnected", "Everything that we do in one place has an effect someplace else. And not only that, we are hopefully coming to a point where we understand that we are citizens of one planet. So the global perspective actually examines the position of citizens,", "might be the global definition of a citizen. Is a citizen in Belgium more a citizen of Belgium than a citizen Jordan? If a Belgian woman marries someone who is not from Belgium, can she pass her citizenship to her children? I don't know. I'm just asking questions so that he could... Okay. So in other words, a woman in Jordan and a", "have the same rights in your own nation state. So these women were aware, in the early part of 20th century that the whole world did not operate along the same lines and so they benefited from suffragist movements and women's rights movements in other parts of the world but they weren't necessarily claiming it for the sake of other women. They were claiming certain things", "as a motivation for what they were advocating. But sometimes, they would advocate against the most common understanding of Islam or the ones that are being used to establish certain unequal laws within the nation state. Margot Badran calls this the first wave of Muslim women's feminism. Now my attaching to this for the sake of my argument", "secular Muslim women's feminism, I don't think was relevant in the early part of the 20th century. That had to wait until the end of the twentieth century and the rise of Islamism. And the rise is a political movement to establish an ideal of Islam. It's an ideal that never really existed because Sharia has", "Sharia has never been an implementation. Sharia is a concept, it's a value. Technically it comes from the word that means path and the word street sharia comes from same root. It is a path that leads to water and water being source of all life. So sharia is the divine way. Muslims have always striven", "But they knew that the way to adjudicate that divine way was to establish an understanding of the primary sources, the Quran which is revelation from Allah. The Sunnah, the established practices of the Prophet Muhammad and the Hadiths, the statements that have been transmitted on the authority of the prophet as well.", "should be called fiqh. Fiqh is theoretical understanding of the divine way and is 100% human made. Might I add it's 100% man-made in the way in which I will describe it for a moment. When the Islamist movement took root in the latter part of the 20th century,", "a resolution to the empiricism of the West with regard to the phenomena of the nation state would be defeated by referring to a system that was higher, because of course it was related to belief in God. That was higher. That is older but at the same time that was authentic to the Muslim person.", "That was the goal. The problem is, the articulation of what is this Islamic way had not only been filtered through a thousand years of fiqh but also had been incorporated into concrete laws at the time of colonialism itself where the fuqaha those people who give legal opinion used to make decisions based on their knowledge", "knowledge of the Quran, of the Sunnah, of Hadith and of their own locations. They did so with a certain spontaneity, eclecticism and genuine relationship to the community. They didn't do so on the basis of codes that went into place around the time of colonialism. You can ask me about this later. I'm just trying to give you an idea that fiqh was much more complicated,", "to the daily lives of the people who were using it than what the Islamists understand it to be. The Islamists have a frozen notion of some perfect Islam which never existed because Islam was always alive and always engaged in the dynamism of life, so there was nothing fixed but after colonialism certain laws particularly Muslim personal status laws or family laws became", "would take it to be Islamic. So the high point of the Islamist movement was the Iranian Revolution because then Islam won out, whoever it was who articulated this Islam and around that same time many Muslim women who have been active in the nation-state building stage", "a different perspective with regard to women's freedoms, liberations, identity development, spirituality etc. and decided that they did not want whatever it was the Islamists were advocating. And if what the Islamist was advocating was indeed Islam then they didn't want Islam. So secular feminism was not born at", "It was born after the rise and signs of success of Islamism itself. By the time we get to the conference in Beijing in 1995, the Islamists are there and they're represented coincidentally at a women's conference mostly by men who were handing out literature explaining the wisdom behind Islam's decisions about A, B and C", "And the secular feminists galvanized their support behind the international instruments of human rights from the UN. Instruments like CEDAW, the Convention for the Elimination of All Forms of Discrimination Against Women.", "strongly supported by the international community because this was the language that the international", "is going to be better than anybody's notion of human rights. And the secularists said, we need to get rid of Islam because we have to have human rights.\" Most Muslim women in the world did not fall into these two camps despite how articulate they were, despite how much funding support they had.", "an organization that's now 20 years old. There we were in the middle with no methodology, no objectives but a clear and intuitive sense that neither one of these sides represented us. And so we began to develop a methodology and set of objectives and we begin to network until", "And what the problem was, both the term feminism and the term Islam needed to be interrogated. Who is Islam? Whose feminism?", "a direct and intensive critical study of our own tradition. To do so from a manner which was explicitly gender sensitive, gender inclusive. Women's voices, women's perspectives, women ways of knowing. In the end it was very clear that the Islam", "that was at the table, was the Islam as articulated within a patriarchal rubric which certainly had sanction in more than just that one century but was not necessarily the exclusive way to articulate Islam because alongside the patriarchy of the Islamic message was also the egalitarian message.", "The two coexist even, for example in the articulations of the Quran. In the Quranic revelation. Why? Because the Quran was revealed to real people living in a real context. 7th century Arabia where they had slaves, where they have multiple wives,", "addresses that particular situation while simultaneously establishing a trajectory of human equality unparalleled at that time. The whole idea behind the United Nations, by the way just in case you have forgotten since it started over here in Europe with the wars of the previous century,", "shown that as human beings we can do things to violate the honor and dignity of other human beings just because we're at war with them. Some of the atrocities that were committed by human beings against other human being,s we collectively decided", "that a person deserved to have no matter if they were friends or enemies. The UN did not come out of mid-air, it came out of World War I and World War II. But the UN was not the beginning of the conversation about what it means to be a human being. All the spiritual traditions, all the philosophies had already articulated", "In our tradition as Islam, we also have notions about what it means to be a human being. Fundamentally according to the Quran, I'm going to create on the earth an agent. The human being is a moral agent of the will of God on the Earth. That's the fundamental understanding of a human", "being that is different from the understanding of a male human being, all of that was constructed later when people said well what does it mean in our context. In most of these contexts just like the rest of the world were patriarchal so if the Quran has established unconditionally that my right as a human being which is to believe in and worship God", "from any other person's right, why would there be a set of laws that would subsume me under a secondary status? We know why there will be laws that do that. But the problem was, why did they say in Islam... Have you ever heard this? In Islam, a woman can't drive a car? I remember the first time somebody said it to me. I married that guy by the way.", "Now I'm going to fast forward just a little bit because I think I've set this up well enough. On September 11th, something happened that was really a tragedy for me personally as an Islamic Studies scholar and as a Muslim but it was also very important for this conversation with you today", "performed in the name of Islam, it became even more important for many Muslims to figure out whose Islam blew up trade centers and slaughtered people on the street here in Europe. Whose Islam was that? And as soon as you ask the question who is Islam then you begin", "even as a Muslim. Of course I live in the United States, let me be frank and our response to those events was to go into war so you guys had your turn and so the United states I guess is feeling a little bit underrepresented so now we're fighting in Iraq and now we are fighting in Afghanistan but what also happened with these two invasions", "in the name of freedom, justice, democracy and liberating Muslim women was an even more critical necessity for distinguishing whether or not Western feminism truly represented all women of the world. And guess what? It did not! But once you problematize both the word Islam", "and the word feminism, then you began to have agency over both terms. It was clear from the work that we had been doing before we went to Beijing it was clear that we took agency of our own identity as Muslim women but what we had not done is taken", "definition of Islam. And once we took agency, which is very simply this, Islam belongs to us. We make this religion as we live it and if we are motivated, as am I, from the Quran's own message", "you achieve from Tauhid and if, from that message we are inspired to challenge any laws, any policies, any practices, any individuals even members of our own family that establish for us a role in our", "That is anything less than the full agency given to us by Allah, then it is our duty under that agency to challenge those practices, those policies, those attitudes. Thus was born Islamic feminism.", "that we are talking about. The reforms that we're talking about would actually challenge a policy in Jordan, that gives citizenship to the sons and daughters of a Jordanian man married to a non-Jordanian woman but would not give citizenship to", "they are both equal citizens of Jordan and equal creatures before Allah. Once we remove the impediment from establishing justice and equality, once we were clear that nothing ever happened to deny women their full and equal human dignity in the name of Islam but rather in the", "of Islam, then it was possible for us to claim a name for ourselves which was Islamic feminism. Thank you." ]
amina_mccloud/Resensi Buku Wanita di dalam Al-Qur_an Karya Amina_Julk6TgLnlU&pp=ygURQW1pbmEgV2FkdWQgaXNsYW0%3D_1742933757.opus	[ "Perempuan di dalam Al-Quran. Buku ini merupakan hasil terjemahan oleh penerjemah yang bernama Yaziar Radianti dari Quran Edhman.", "Dari Quran and Women karya Aminawadud Mohsin pada tahun 1992 yang diterbitkan oleh Fajar Bakti Kuala Lumpur. Lalu, diterkitkan kembali oleh penerbit pustaka pada tahun 1994 dengan menggunakan bahasa Indonesia pada cetakan pertama.", "merupakan buku lama yang masih relevan untuk kita baca. Hal ini dikarenakan agar tersampaikannya pesan-pesan Quran secara substansial sesuai dengan tujuannya sebagai pendoman hidup umat manusia. Memahami isi Al-Quran tidak cukup hanya sekedar memahami secara tekstual apalagi mengandalkan cocokologi belaka,", "harus melibatkan disiplin ilmu lainnya agar mampu menginterpretasikan Al-Quran secara adil demi kepentingan hidup umat manusia baik laki-laki maupun perempuan setelah membaca buku ini saya sangat kagum dengan upaya penulis yang telah menyajikan hasil risetnya", "untuk merekonstruksi pikiran pembaca dalam menginterpretasikan makna-makna tersembunyi yang terkandung di dalam Al-Quran sebagai kitab suci yang sudah diakui secara universal. Al-Kur'an sebagai kitap suci, yang muncul pada abad 14 yang lalu patut kita hidupkan kembali dengan cara mengkajinya secara lebih mendalam.", "Ada lagi yang memahami isi dan makna yang terkandung di dalam Al-Quran bagaimana mungkin pesan-pesan ilahi bisa tersampaikan dengan baik. Al-Kur'an harus tetap hidup dan menjadi petunjuk bagi kehidupan umat manusia tanpa dibatasi ruang dan waktu. Jika tidak, maka Al-Xur'ana akan tetap menjadi teks mati yang kehilangan tujuannya.", "Sebagai kitab suci yang diturunkan kepada Nabi Muhammad SAW Telah berhasil membawa perubahan kondisi sosial, moral, spiritual dan politik secara konkret di wilayah Arab pada saat itu Perubahan-perubahan itu mampu mempengaruhi kawasan lainnya Yang lebih luas dalam waktu yang sangat singkat", "pengubah dunia yang harus kita akui dan pahami secara bersama. Ada dua implikasi penting yang disampaikan oleh penulis kepada pembaca dalam studi khususnya mengenai masalah wanita dalam Al-Quran. Pertama, sebagai satu bentuk usaha memelihara relevansi kandungan Al-Kur'an dengan kehidupan manusia.", "Al-Quran harus terus menerus ditafsirkan ulang dari masa ke masa. Kedua, kemajuan peradaban telah melukiskan betapa luasnya partisipasi wanita di masyarakat dan pengakuan atas pentingnya sumber daya wanita.", "tentang peran dan partisipasi wanita yang tergandung di dalamnya Al-Qurannya satu, tapi penafsiran atas nasinya sangatlah banyak Jadi jika ada penafsyiran yang hanya menyudutkan dan membatasi peran Dan partisipansi wanita dalam kehidupan sosial masyarakat Pada hakikatnya bukan ayat-ayat al-qur'anya yang membataskan kaum wanita", "ke wanita, melainkan penafsiran atas nasnya yang menjadi penyebabnya bukan Al-Quran itu sendiri perlu ditekankan kembali bahwa ayat-ayat dan prinsip-prinsip Al-Kur'an tidaklah berubah ia bersifat fleksibel dan universal karenanya yang berubahlah adalah bagaimana kapasitas pemahaman dan perefleksian prinsipe-princip", "dalam suatu masyarakat Oleh sebab itu untuk memahaminya pun tidak cukup hanya dari perspektif kebudayaan tunggal apalagi perspektip masyarakat Islam pertama pada zaman Rasulullah melainkan harus dengan perspekti yang lebih berkeadilan bagi kedudukan manusia laki-laki dan perempuan", "bagi kaum perempuan dimanapun Anda berada Islam itu ramah terhadap kaum perekpuan pedoman kitab suci nya pun memberikan banyak kemuliaan bagi kedudukan pereumpuan yang lebih manusiawi dari sebelumnya peran dan partisipasi sudah diakui sejak dulu kala jika laki-laki dan pereimpuan saling memiliki", "dan menghegemoni salah satu manusia yang sama-sama memiliki peran dalam kehidupan ini. Kita di mata Tuhan itu setara, tidak ada yang lebih tinggi di antara salah satunya. Itulah pesan-pesan yang dapat saya ambil setelah membaca buku ini. Semoga kalian semua tidak puas ya." ]
amina_mccloud/Shaykha Fest 2013_ The Journey by Prof_ Amina McCl_owJaPjCA6ME&pp=ygUVQW1pbmFoIE1jQ2xvdWQgIGlzbGFt_1743315957.opus	[ "Let me say that it is an honor to have met my other colleagues again, some of them again", "some of them again, some of the first time whose writings and what I hear about them, Hibba especially. Which all of us need to take a moment and sing their praises. Ask the law to bless them and the law will bless them if we make that successful.", "around from tables trying to get you out and tell me what you want, and some of what you need. And it's been interesting. I don't often get a chance to speak with members of the community because I spend all my time in court either adjudicating marriage contracts gone bad or trying to well not prevent terrorism", "but to explain the Muslim positions on things and oftentimes trying to undo some of the things that Muslims said when they're under pressure out there in public spaces.", "there before I retire. One of the things that I try to do, and I think I do fairly well as a mentor, however it is, I'm going to throw out some things because I like to be in conversation. I lecture too much and my quarter's over. I don't have to teach anything really to anybody so I'm relaxing with all of you and hoping to learn from you what you need for me to do.", "Western academia is an interesting place. And I thought I would give you some statistics because I have my colleague Sarah here from the UK and in the US or the UK only 20% in each place are the professors of women, still in the 21st century.", "In the UK, only 7% of those professors, the tenured faculty are women. Interesting. In the US, only 4%. I tried to look and I called a bunch of people to find out how many of those women were full professors and it's less than 1%.", "So in that I'm feeling good today. They don't fire me tomorrow. And we spend a great deal of time trying to get women to apply for jobs, trying to want faculties and assist them in getting tenure which is a little bit of a task itself.", "about how I got here. Islamic studies is not my first career, my first careers are in pharmacy and medicine and I got bamboozled because the problem was African Americans being able to conquer graduate", "and I will see all of you in my wake because if I can do it, anybody besides possum or a couple other things can do this because you have all had a listen to the conversations far more intellect than I for this subject. Don't even look like that. For me was arduous coming from a science background where I'm more interested in delivering babies", "to sitting down and engaging men in what I kind of considered my own very personal spiritual path. When I went to graduate school, there was only one university in the United States that offered Islamic studies, and that was Temple University in Philadelphia.", "There are two things you have to do. You know, you do your stateside study and then you have go overseas to do your law or your Quranic studies etc And I have to admit that you don't want to know what I had to say about the Muslim world or the method of teaching Because I found all of it on one hand exceptionally difficult didn't have to be that way but on the other hand What is it you call in psychology when we're doing when you can't do something well?", "something well. Yeah, I do have a learning disability and it was for memorizing things by root so you know I'm sitting with fully grown woman lots of mouth in classes in the module trying to memorize stuff", "in a hurry so they kept moving me along. I think that the task does not end there, getting a PhD and we also have to get licenses along the way which enable us to teach in law or Quran or this that or the other are at once enabling mostly", "mostly demeaning, and you do all of this without support. And I think if there was a thing my sister colleagues would ask is that you all pay attention to us. We're out there often by ourselves.", "So I don't get out much. But we do need support because when we take stands on issues that affect all of you, born here or somewhere else, we become targets for others. Without community support it becomes extremely hazardous.", "We live, most many of us with security from the CIA and FBI and our own personal bodyguards. I didn't think I needed them here today.", "unless you're constantly speaking to us. We may get it wrong, but without the cross communication, it becomes almost impossible. One of the things I like to think of myself as is a scholar activist and I like put Islamic studies into practice", "There's an important nexus that many of us miss in figuring out how to interpret things. You know, in Islam I've heard and asked about this last night one of the things that rankles me", "with me know is the word convert. Let me say a few things now. Convert is a Christian term that sits inside of a constellation of things, okay? It implies that when you move from one religious tradition or one worldview to another then it's instantaneous and", "It also carries with it certain notions that are not in Islam. One of those notions that I rail against is the notion of sin, because sin in Christianity has its own cosmology which fits Christianity rather well.", "in the Quran that signify different levels of obedience and it is important to understand where you are in a constellation of obediences. You know? We have a habit of talking about things as the halal or haram, two extremes. Loads of stuff in the", "of stuff in life. No, which we rarely talk about but nevertheless with sin I don't really think you want to be there it's not a term used casually and unless you're going to get saved by Jesus I really don't think you wanna be there okay? And there are some other terms", "talking about Islamically understandable to our various American audiences or English-speaking audiences, we tend to use but we're corrupting the beauty and nature of the Quran. So I'm just going to say, I think we need to think about the convert, revert is worse. It's not like you got out of jail and then you went back and got out again.", "I think that, and it is a thing where in Islam one of the things that brought all of us here today is that primary relationship of a Maulid. You know, one very primary relationship. If you shouldn't focus on people's, where they came from or this and that and the other,", "but they do have some obligations to you that you need to hold them to and they need to themselves too. And in Islam, one of the things that Al-Wawiyah is doing is it's reinstituting that primary relationship in its most fundamental form, the teacher and student with an understanding", "And that the student will become a teacher. Do you see how it moves? Go up at a conference, take your notes, go home, scratch and do something else. You have a responsibility to keep learning but then also to teach. You don't get to sit on it. But there's also somebody else I don't remember which table I was said well I'm going to learn something so I can act on it", "Act on it. And I've always found that meant acting with some caveats behind it because you cannot learn and not act upon it. I think, I love to talk about the women and the marital right. I find that one of the problems, because I adjudicate a lot of them, is in the contract.", "contract and it makes me ask questions but what are you scared of putting your contract you are a gift to some dude i mean seriously and if he can't get it together get another do", "the contract because after stuff goes south it is very hard for us to come back i watch um you know the mob is becoming a big hit word in the courts you know", "should understand it. People are deferring dowries till they would have had to die three, four times to get it. You know that's not what's supposed to be happening. It's not that it's supposed I have everything but the kitchen sink in it, but it's suppose...it functions in two ways. One is you're supposed", "And that self-assessment should reflect itself in any contract that you write. I've seen women getting married and the mar is a Quran, they can buy a Quran themselves or I'll give them one. Do you understand? That is not good functioning there. It is in a sense of payment for exclusive rights", "rights to your sexuality. And if that's worth nothing to you, then you can't cry about it later. What else did I get? Oh! We were yesterday...", "which is an extension of what Dr. Malika said earlier, and that is women's rights. And I guess I rail a little bit about you trying to find your rights because that's an English term that really functions in Western societies in a way", "I think that in the conversations that those of us, and I agree with Dr. Hemminger, you know one of the things we've met is feminism. And while I don't care to explore what women think they are or aren't doing, the constellation in a religious tradition on which they function, that of Christianity has a different set of premises.", "equality. The number of men I do not want to be equal to is very, very low in either their intellect or physical prowess. I think that women have some gifts that they've not fully explored. They not only have intellect, they not only", "I don't know if she was here, manipulate this baby carriage, three bags and something else. And still open the door for me and some other old folks. They have all the physical powers they need. But they have something that is very, very special. Many, or should I say most, can mother. Not necessarily have kids because all of us can't have kids.", "can't have kids and if you're dying to have some i have something you can have but we can mother and we're always mothering whether we've given birth or not with mother till we die you know we start mother what about 14. and we just continue mothering and bring people under our wings in many ways I think", "I think also, let me make sure I cover what she didn't really need to cover. The young lady who's a freshman should be in my class. We have to do a lot more about learning about each other's cultures", "One of the wonderful things about being in this place is we get a chance to meet Muslims from all over the world. And just like others in society, we take no advantage of them. We don't share meals. We know share wisdoms. We dont share ways of doing things. We do not share what you read and how did you get through this?", "You know, one of the women who helped me most with one of my kids was an old Arab grandmother. And she was much nicer to him than I was. But she gave me a whole different perspective on how to do things, how I could do things. And that's the kind of wisdom that you reach across cultures to get. That's the tribes coming to know one another.", "Some of us are, you know people speak different languages. They may not speak English. Gesturing works well. There's something about mothering and taking care of the young. We're starting a project in Chicago this summer when I get back where I've asked some of the especially the Latino moms", "you know moms, grandmas who are not Muslim. They're kids in Muslim and some of the immigrant mothers to help me out with the slightly faster generation who are having kids their own mothers are maybe 12-13 years older than they", "been there their old mothers are trying to be 17. so i said you know it doesn't matter in this instance that the face of the help is you know i don't want to go around and listen you know they got on all this stuff fine but if we can provide the mothering", "who cares they know more about mothering than these 12 13 and 14 year olds so we're pulling them in under the auspices of a little bit of health care their grandmothers will encourage them leave your baby go to school you don't have to pay for the", "of reaching across cultures to think about how to get the wisdom but also to bond in a different kind of way i think we have fallen into and I'll say falling into because some of the folk in here have known me for the last 40 years um we've fallen into for the Americans being un-American", "was our willingness to reach across our Islam with a hand toward men. Once we secret ourselves behind our veils and doors, we cease to do the outreach. Back then the Saudis had decided to call it Dawah so we didn't call it that but we reached anyway. The masajid were full of as many non-Muslims", "many non-Muslims as there were Muslims. And we need to go back to some of that. The last part, and I'm going to cut it short because I've talked long enough is how does one mentor? At DePaul in our Islamic World Studies program I think last county we have about 32 courses", "courses and they range from courses in the Quran and its interpretation to courses in sectarian movements, courses in hadith, several courses on law. We have courses on women. We haven't Islamic history we have Islamic art architecture. We", "And I was trying to think, as an answer to a request, how we could make some of them available to you as members of this group.", "How we can do some popular stuff. We can make a book club online, that's not difficult and I can ask Tiva", "who are here, we can make some book choices from books we assign to students but we can do it at levels. For those of you working on master's degrees and PhDs that is one kind of reading. There are plenty of Muslim women who are cultural anthropologists and I can make sure you get some of those texts. Yay!", "do let's say readings of spirituality we have a couple of faculty who can do that. We have faculty who do advanced Urdu, Arabic, Persian French German and Malay so we can work it out to assist you however it is with the system if", "know and we'll try to get it for you. The other part of what I wanted to talk about, and not being told I need to hurry up is what I would like to further ask of you. We don't have folk tales. You know Egyptians got them, the Syrians got them.", "The Caribbean people. We don't have folk tales. At least half of us wrong tell stories, probably more. Would you please write that so I can have it so we publish it in a book of folk tales? If you don't raise children with tales like they're on, they don't", "See, everybody knows. You know and they're on book what? Seven. You now some of the folks whose kids are as old as mine, the girls read The Babysitter's Club. All 83 because I paid for them. 83 books. It is time to develop you can put the values", "It's storybook. And they shouldn't just be for Muslim kids because the obligation of a Muslim in any society is to set an example, okay? You can't set an exam if nobody can read that text unless they're Muslim, okay. So we need the, the culprits. The only thing I ask is whoever you decide", "whoever you decide to make the central character, keep that person as the it animal person. As the central characters. For those of you who write other kinds of literature please let us know I'm an editor for Brill and one of the editors for Oxford. I edit a lot of stuff much of which is not written by Muslims", "you write it we will work with you to get done for those of you who do American law, we have the Journal of Islamic Law and Culture but you don't have to do law. You can write about political I mean you can write", "We'll help you. It's a full editorial board. These professors are committed to helping you lift the language. May not look like what she wrote when we finished with it, but it will have the same intent because it's important.", "And I added Middle Eastern studies to that. It's very tiny in this country. They need help. They mean help with the research, they need for you to volunteer to help. We need... Most of you know that there are as yesterday morning 24 states trying to ban the Sharia. Much of that comes from people who don't know trying to explain what the Shari'a is", "I am. We have Tennessee and seven more states up to ban wudu in public spaces. Tennessee don't do wudus in a public space in Tennessee because I hate Tennessee. Well, it came you know its impetus", "You cannot afford to not keep up with the news.", "You've got to keep up because a part of being Muslim is to be informed and to be aware. Always have to be Aware of your surroundings the assault against Islam and Muslims in this country has left the front pages And it has moved to page 32 But the assault is deadly Those of you who are interested in research", "research to read all the help we can get because there are too few of us that work on the issues. The kids, you've heard about the ban of a scarf in France? There are states which are trying to affect that and we're meeting with those senators,", "Women, fortunately for them do not keep bombs or other devices under those scarves. But it's more so about the attack against children because women send their children to schools in scarves but then women are not at school to protect those children against the assault of principals and teachers. So as one who kind of I was very teeny tiny during civil rights movement you've got don't", "You've got to, don't send your kid anywhere where you're not going with or right behind them to protect them. They are in classrooms where teachers are verbally assaulting them.", "stuff across the board and this is with CARE, ISNA, ICMA whole bunches of organizations which are not equipped to do that depending upon academics to provide them with a final we can't keep up with the assaults verbal. And when you have verbal assaults like that on little kids they become psychological problems", "maybe a decade ago, we redid the high school textbooks section on Islam. It was hell getting it through the Texas Depository. We waged numerous battles to get it through. The Republicans came in which some of you voted for and wiped it out so that either this year or next if", "If Islam is mentioned at all, it'll be two sentences in the world history textbooks. The assault is on many levels not to fear and I do believe in love. I'm just not in love with my country right now.", "kids, your grandkids going to school. You've got to monitor what happens to you in the public space. We can't move on anything unless we know what is going on. We also need for you to report good things that are happening in the space where people have not...we had a bunch of women fired because they wanted to watch it up", "Physicians especially. And you know, along with the men because non-Muslim women didn't want Muslim men touching them. You know, just all kinds of stuff you would not believe but it's across the board. So we need for you to work with us in all the ways that you can to be vigilant and I'm going to ask that...I'll put something out there if you want to be in the online book club let", "Hibben will help me get a reading list. Tell me what you want to read. I am reading Diary of a Worthy Kid. So would you please hurry up and write something? Let me ask you quickly, do you have any questions for me?", "You know the state of Tennessee talked into another, she wanted to know about the state", "haven't done a good job explaining what islam is and who we are. We're busy being apologetic, okay? Which doesn't work well here but the state of Tennessee in its state legislation toughen a fine plus jail sometimes or a fine if you're caught making women", "and they can move in. If the people complain, you're in a picnic space and they complain because you're making them afraid, they'll come and pick you up. Other states given the Boston bombing, state referendum and pieces of bills tucked into other places before Congress is enormous.", "She's so big. As-salamu alaykum I'm really glad that you mentioned the point about folk tales. I was thinking about music, movies and media in general in our society And one of the things that brought me closer to Islam was actually reading the lyrics and analyzing", "what the words actually mean and sort of having that understanding of what we hear every day. And I was very curious, how do you... What is your recommendation in terms of going beyond just what our children read but what we all everyday are surrounded by when we need it? Well, I think that's where there are levels of activism.", "Do you know Rhymefest? You know Rheinfest, do you know who Rhymes is? What are y'all be doing? Do you now who Lupe Fiesta is? Huh? I think what you have to do with the young men and I do hang out with them", "I listen very, very carefully. I try to say something when I think it's going overboard. I listen to a lot of rap and hip hop unfortunately but I try see where I can interject something.", "venue where they've gotten it and there's another kind of video where the emphasis is on the social message. And then I'm talking to you, and I'm thinking about one of Lupe's videos,", "He's not talking to Muslim women. He's talking to non-Muslim women who don't understand how they act and how their children mimic the stuff, okay? I think in being an activist you have to interject. You know young men come into my classes all the time with their pants hanging", "hands is hanging, I will report you to the police for an instant exposure. And I do it all over down the street. You know, you can't be in a neighborhood where young people without guidance don't get something from you. If they don't", "So you've got to at least have your say before they do you. And hope that they don't do you! I mean, that's horrible but I mean you really have to... In Chicago right now we're doing taking it to the streets. I don't know if you all heard of taking it into the streets? But I'm a board member and we work very hard with women", "women coming out of prison, men coming out from prison. Most of them are not Muslim. They're folks out in the neighborhood because that's what Muslims aren't supposed to do. We're supposed to be role models all the time. The object of Allah's mercy through us we don't get to choose. You're always supposed", "you know so if you hear and some of those lyrics are really interesting in a extremely misogynistic environment culture right to produce there are tweeting", "African American is the lyrics which talk about mamas and women. And I'm saying, you know, country western doesn't even do this. Why y'all doing this? You know there is no other genre where women are spoken of so poorly. And you have to get there if you don't get there they think that your feet are padding too.", "You know, there is a generation of it's all relative. I'm not of that generation, unfortunately. It's not all relative you know when the young ladies are in the streets with almost no clothes on, I do make comments. Um, I DO make comments of the young owners on the street. You know i'm not willing to pay for their bed but I will make a comment", "Because if nobody ever hears it, they don't have an idea that anything is wrong with them. Yes? Ms. Cultural Anthropologist.", "I had a couple things that kind of stuck out to me. The one thing, specifically what you were just talking about, our older generation making it a point in the need to check the younger generation and the things they do as far as their external appearance. No no no! That's not just the older generation. You too!", "That's what I was about to talk about. It being necessary Islamically, especially with Muslim women. I mean, Muslim men have their own struggles so we can't speak of that at this particular event. But at the same time, we're not in an F enough position because they have their on struggles and their own things as Muslim men. We can speak about it but we are not in a position to properly judge or even discuss", "Masha'Allah sister, masha'allah.", "about the policy and is that policy is really big in today's society as far as when you really want to get something through to government officials and to the people then it's a serious this is our way of life and our culture. And how do we organize each other just some innocence of just talking about the school district of Philadelphia and different things are being done so the teachers and students extracurricular activities, and that's something I'm really involved in trying to make", "and when you let it like really, revolve around yourself, you become ignorant. And you have an ignorance bliss mindset. How do we organize each other as Muslims? As Muslim women with our numbers, we have the quantity but the quality isn't always there. How to be organized and create policy that will stick and influence? I don't think you can create policy which definitely can influence it", "Don't think that the Muslim women have nothing to say about most minute as cute No, I mean it is that you my husband isn't a man much community And I am a life of safe through him and he won't go anywhere unless", "are supposed to love us to death right and our fathers generally do um and it's supposed to be a conversation it's always a conversation both of you trying to get to gender you know whether you wind up in the suburbs or dead square in the center you're both working", "for each of you all the time to one another so don't think that and I don't know about I mean like I've seen Philadelphia's schools it is not different than any other school system parents have a say they influence policy in local schools if you got kids or grandkids get into" ]
amina_mccloud/Should we follow Muslim feminist thinkers_ Amina W_Zqj36E9jZ-E&pp=ygURQW1pbmEgV2FkdWQgaXNsYW0%3D_1742921642.opus	[ "As-salamu alaykum and welcome back to the podcast. My name is Farhat Dameen. Today's topic is should we follow Islamic feminist thinkers? Now in the past few decades some Muslim female academics", "what they perceived as women's rights and equality of women. The work of various individuals and organizations is often referred to as Islamic feminism, but a Muslim woman who has experienced oppression within the Muslim community it is easy to see why she would turn to Islamic feminist thinkers for support. The prejudice of white secular feminists doesn't appeal to her identity", "But unfortunately, she doesn't feel welcome in some traditional Muslim spaces. So therefore Islamic feminist thinkers they purport to root their opinions in the Islamic tradition so Muslim women in particular believe that their views are legitimate. Therefore the egalitarian atmosphere created by Islamic feminist scholarships is a safe space for some Muslim women now Islamic feminist", "Is it not the case that only a handful of people champion Muslim women's issues? So when educated, articulate Muslim women address the misogyny amongst Muslims, women are grateful and some gravitate towards them. Islamic feminist thinkers gain traction because modern Muslim societies in the East and West are not comprehensively delivering women the Islamic rights that Allah decreed", "Islamic feminist academics are saying is Islamically sound. A Muslim who has not studied Islamic history will not have the skills or knowledge to assess their views, so the result is that women trust them because they are pro-women and believe that they have their best interests at heart. However before jumping on the bandwagon we should pause and question our motives for following Islamic feminist scholars.", "they articulate what we want to hear? Or is it a case of shopping around for an opinion that agrees with our lifestyle. Rather than blindly accepting their assertions, we should evaluate them without gender bias. Just because they are women this doesn't mean we unquestioningly embrace their thinking. We should consider their views objectively. Moreover,", "of scholarly mainstream Islamic opinions. Inshallah, that's what I hope to do in today's podcast episode and with me I have Alhamdulillah, I have sister Hira Hashmi. She is part of an online platform called Traversing Tradition and I'd like to just welcome Hira. As-salamu alaykum Hira, how are you? Wa alaykumsalam, I'm doing well. Thank", "Well, we've spoken before on the podcast and it's just so nice to have you on again. Now in case listeners don't know about Traversing Tradition could you just tell us a little bit about the platform? Yeah of course! TraversinGT is a non-profit online publication and our goal is to provide different perspectives on modern society through the lens of Islamic theology Eastern and Western philosophy and historical analysis One of the biggest ideas that we try to get across", "articles is that many modern philosophies and ideologies they shape how we think about the world and how we want to analyze those same issues but with a lens of like through a lens", "So, okay. So today, so can I ask, have you come across, so what I was speaking about in the intro, the whole concept of Islamic feminism, is that something you've come across? Yeah. And interestingly enough, the way that I, you know, in high school and university growing up, you sort of praiseworthy, like, you", "of, you know, we've been oppressed. We have these issues that are pertaining to women, you and domestic violence and rape. And now that I'm in law school, you read so many criminal cases where it's just heartbreaking. And so the way that it was presented to me was, oh, this is simply a way of just saying I advocate for women. And I didn't realize how loaded of a term it was and how the history is actually much more complex than that until more recently.", "more recently and my husband mentioned that you know one time his MSA for example where he was at university there it kind of split into two because one group wanted to have a quote-unquote inclusive Jummah, where it was women leading the Jummuh hijab or no hijab and the congregation was mixed. And then the other half was like no no this is wrong,", "abide by any fiqh guidelines. So now you start to see more of those ideological components really manifest itself on college campuses and working with MSAs, that's something I've started to notice in recent years especially with my younger sisters is it's gone from we just want equality, we just", "leading dramas and we want hijab is not obligatory. And it really manifests itself in these ways where I really think Muslim women should take a step back before adopting this term, because it's not just this innocent kind of idea. It actually is being spearheaded by individuals who have very inappropriate and incorrect positions when it comes to aqidah, when it", "It's very interesting you said that, but it's a new phenomenon. And what I noticed is the on and this is one reason why I actually looked into this. Well there were two reasons really. I was noticing on social media so that would be whether it's in Instagram in particular that there were Muslim bookstagrammers who they are promoting the books of particular Islamic feminist thinkers", "thinkers. And so therefore, I looked at them and I thought, Oh, let me see these books. And they're saying that they are, and these women with quite big followings, and friends of mine were also liking the pictures and saying, Oh yeah, I really want to read this book. So I thought let me have a look at them. And then, and then I thought well okay let's, so then I googled the books and then i thought okay I'm going to read the books or read extracts or read papers on", "rather than just, you know, like liking it just because it's by a woman and just assuming it's good because they're Muslim and they look Muslim and sound Muslim. I thought, I think I'm not going to be, I want to dig a bit deeper but then also I, cause I have an Islam and feminism course on my website, Smart Muslima. And that was one area that I knew if you go on YouTube,", "women just, you know, I would say they are lay people who were saying Islam and feminism. There's no problem. It goes together fine. Islam is a feminist religion. But then I thought I need to understand where have they got that idea from? You know, what did they read? Who did they listen to that made them think that there was an Islam and Feminism can go hand in hand. And that's what made me think I actually have to read their works and listen to their talks.", "So so we're going to focus on that. There are many women, you know, in the Muslim world and, you Know, in The West. But I'm going to Focus on contemporary academics for in particular Amina Wadud Asma Balas Keisha Ali and Ayesha Hidayatullah And the reason why I think we should just focus on them is that they are the most vocal and they've written a number of books. So and seeing that our audience really is mainly Muslim women in the west", "Muslim Women in the West they are the books that people are reading now they don't always agree with each other but the one thing that they do agree on is that they're all pursuing they say equality and justice for women within Islam using an Islamic framework that is what they are saying. Now one of the okay so what", "now this word I find it so difficult to pronounce sometimes hermeneutical method and so thank you hermoneutics is a theory and methodology of interpretation especially the interpretation of um when i looked up the meaning it's a biblical text and philosophical texts so it's very it uses interpretive principles or methods and when immediate comprehension fails and includes", "Now, what's interesting is their approach is not the same as those used by traditional Islamic scholars. They show open mistrust towards the authority of transmittage and knowledge so they use their own methodologies to explain their interpretations.", "that um and why do you think they they do that? Well so that's a big question. One thing I would no, no it's okay inshallah i'll do my best to answer what I think and of course you know listeners can have their own input but one thing to understand is a lot of these quote unquote scholars-I say scholars because they are scholars in one sense but they're not what we think of when", "You've been trained in classical Arabic, you've been train in fiqh. And all of these things that make you eligible or qualified to do interpretation. So in that sense they are not Islamic scholars. When we look at any issue we have to start with Islamic epistemology right? What are our sources of knowledge? The Quran and the Sunnah. And with that there's rigorous methodologies. You know you have the methodology of Imam Abu Hanifa and Maliki so within the Maliki Madhhab", "You have Imam Malik, Rahimahullah and you have Amal al-Ahl al-Madinah. These legal concepts, when you look at the actions of the people of Madina, the way that he interpreted different hadiths and conflicting hadith, it's very rigorous and it's not a free for all. Dr. Amina Wadud one of her... One of the issues that I find with her methodology, I think was it in a book or was it some article where she said something along the lines", "along the lines of authority belongs to everyone. It doesn't belong to a select class, anyone can interpret Islam right? So my biggest issue with her is that she or like her methodology, she seems to say that you know this sort of Islam is for everyone type of deal which is a problem because then how can you define a certain um type of practice or certain understanding", "even like very extreme groups not to get too deep into that but they have their own interpretations right what's on what measure do you say this interpretation of islam is more valid like objectively more correct than another if you say islam can just be whatever anyone wants it to be so off the bat that's one of the issues um as for why you know a lot of these thinkers tend", "they see some sort of inherent gender bias in the existing history and methodology, right? So most scholars in our history were men. You know, vast majority of books were written by male ulama. So they see this as a problem that, you know, they say well they're not women, they can't understand the female experience. That means that their understanding of the tradition is inherently biased so we need a quote-unquote female interpretation. Now with the existing methodology", "So in order to get to that, often some of these women will negate the sunnah. They'll negate", "we don't know if they're authentic or not it's another reason i've heard so they'll just kind of remove all of that and what they're left with is the quran and if you don't have the hadith which gives you the context which gives, you know which goes back to the way that the prophet sallallaahu alaihi wasalam practiced the qur'an right he was the best example of the qura'n without the sunnah we don t have access to any of that", "rulings you know it has the verses of ahkam which are you know the rulings but you know without the sunnah, it's not contextualized and it's specified right many things from salah to wudu exactly how to do it that's not in the quran that's how that's from you know companions narrating from the prophet so without all of that they're left with a very flimsy methodology where you can just kind of look at the qur'an try to", "Quran, try to pick and choose what you want. Try to impose on it this preconceived notion that you have of gender equality. So that's kind of the way that I think of it when I see this is just a faulty understanding of Islamic epistemology, a sort of like, you know, just a fault methodology. And on the one hand, yes, like I can understand, you", "people do this you know they'll post like a really you know a hadith that you know people don't shouldn't be looking at until you know there are more advanced student of knowledge you know when it comes to for example concubines or you know controversial issues like that where i was exposed to that at a point in my life where my iman wasn't even you know i was still growing like i i was", "And so I can understand like that immediate, you know, feeling of trying to wrestle with these issues. But the solution is not to do away with all of it, you now? So that would be one way to understand this. Well yeah, I think that does explain it well that seeing... It seems that there is... They do... Okay let's just take our... Let me actually quote Amina Wadud. She said in her book", "Sihem Amer- Quran and women, rereading the sacred texts from a woman's perspective. So this is the beginning of the quote traditional tafsir is that they were exclusively written by males This means that men and men's experiences were included and women and women's experiences what either excluded or interpreted through the male vision. Perspective desire or needs of woman that sounds a bit funny to me but I took a direct quote but", "direct quote but um it is so it is it's the male perspective and asma balas she's written a book called believing women in islam on reading patriarchal interpretations of the quran she says beginning with quote since the qur'an was revealed into an existing patriarchy and has been interpreted by adherents", "exegesis so you're right they that's just two of them um it is as you said they will look at that so the going back to the question of why um do they not follow traditional scholarly you know methodologies it is because they say it is it's patriarchal that's why so therefore we are", "you know, selectively take parts of Islamic history. You could even but also you could I think a lot happens in people look at modern times, Muslim countries the way they are at the moment and societies and the access or that lack of access that women have to knowledge. And then they can look about say, yeah, they're right what these women that's my experience as well. I haven't been able to attend halakha at the masjid. I can't go to a retreat where there's lots for men", "for men you know it can be seen that yeah it's um the setup in a masjid or in a school you know an islamic university is patriarchal but that's just taking a few examples that doesn't mean Islam is patriarchial and the method of the scholars is patriarchical. That's a bit where we have to start being more do some more research and alhamdulillah as", "to do that research for his book Al-Muhaddithat, where he asserts that women played an active and prominent role in Islam's formative years. He provides numerous examples in his book where he contends that women had access to religious authority as men did. Nadwi's work provides biographical accounts of female scholars throughout the Islamic history, throughout the Islam tradition's history. And he factually dispels the myth propagated by Wadud al-Bala", "by Wadud al-Balas that the only noteworthy female Muslim figures are found in the very early years of Islam. I don't know, have you had a chance to read the book? Unfortunately, I haven't. I haven' t either but I've heard really good things about his work and it's interesting because these individuals who take issue with the tradition being patriarchal what they're doing is looking at", "current state of affairs, which is completely true. I agree there's issues with access to the masjid. There's issues that even should women get this Islamic education or not? And these are all problems originally from India and it's a problem there as well. But the issue is does that mean we can negate all of fiqh and all of usool because we believe there to be a level of bias?", "read by Ustada Reba Baig, Gender Bias and Fiqh Rulings Not Really. It's an article on Ilmgate. And she kind of discusses how yes like you know perhaps there is a limit to how much women were actively involved compared to men we're not disputing that but the fact is women were engaged unlike what Barlasa saying or what Dr. Amina Wadud is saying for example many of the rulings", "menstruation, which is something that these women do take an issue with. Why are women not allowed to pray when they're menstruating? A lot of these rulings come from Aisha radiAllahu Anha. They come directly from the female companions and often Aisha would take stricter opinions than her male counterparts. So there's also this assumption that only if women were involved we'd have quote unquote more leniency when it comes to women regarding women in the masjid or", "regarding modesty or whatever. So I do recommend this because I think we need much more research like Sheikh Akram Nadwi is doing in one, showing that women have been engaging in the tradition and two just understanding that individually yes there may have been scholars who were products of their time but overall as an entire tradition they in the methodology right it wasn't", "it wasn't like, you know, Imam Abu Hanif or Imam Malik sat down and thought, oh, how can we make things hard for women? The scholars weren't overall concerned with let's try to make things easy for men and hard for a woman. What they were doing is looking at this body of literature, looking at the Quran and thinking, how do we understand what Allah Subh'anaHu Wa Ta-A'la is commanding us to do in this situation? You know that is the role of a scholar. Yeah. And with the whole issue of patriarchy,", "I don't know how much they are willing to admit that they are affected by liberal feminist thinking. The whole concept of patriarchy and looking at the whole world's history, when looking at history, finding... And also there's a lot of assumptions made here that our history was patriarchal. Well, they say the Western history was patriarchal so therefore in the East or in the Muslim world it must have been patriarchal", "patriarchal um and so they've come to that that's where they're starting and then they therefore then assume okay because it was um there are they ignore they and they do choose to because even um there were so many books now written um by you know muslims and non-muslims that talk about the achievements whether in uh okay in public they'll talk", "you know um opening of the university by fatima al-fihri in moroccan city affairs also there were many that's just one example this fatimah bin alauddin and she was a jewish who gave but that was by the way for the listeners um there's an article on this whole topic will be on traversing tradition website so", "them because I would actually recommend you go and read the article that will be published in January. But there are many, I've listed many examples in the piece but what's interesting is that Islamic famous thinkers not only do they choose to ignore the public achievements that are recorded also the private for example the achievements of so it was yourself here that told me", "that Imam Malik and Imam Shafi, they were great because their mothers were their first teachers and scholars. I wasn't aware of that but those are the although these achievements are ignored and you think again that's not being honest and that's what being objective and that in there propagating this idea that our history is patriarchal because that's", "and research. Yeah, I would add to that their measure of what is success and what is evidence of women breaking the mold isn't itself a very material measure. We have to understand that throughout history across non-Muslims and Muslim women just didn't produce texts. Text weren't there to extrapolate on women's private lives usually. And I have no doubt", "doubt that there were so many more accomplishments of women, of all kinds, that we're not aware of. And you know too back to the idea of like how we're measuring these ideas of equality right they're not going to people aren't likely to see you know I think there's a recent article actually on traversing tradition about the myth of you know Fatima al-Fahri how yes it's an easy thing yeah it's very easy people like to point out because it's like oh she founded a university not just a mosque but a university which", "true entirely. But, you know, they're not likely to point out like Rabia Al-Adawiyah, right? Someone who's like an extremely pious woman or Sayyidina Fisa, who is a teacher of Imam Shafri or women who were of a more scholarly class, right. They want to point Out like Khadija was a businesswoman. Well, why do we emphasize that over the, you Know her being the first person to accept Islam and her piety and her devotion, right, like we have to look at what also", "we tend to see as bastions of equality? Or what measures do we see as evidence of, you know, empowerment. And that's something that I in recent years have taken an issue with just because I agree like I do want women to be empowered in all spheres but at the same time being the mother and being the reason, being the one who's pushing your son to be like one of the best scholars in Islamic history, that in and of itself is amazing right?", "right um uh sacrificing for the family that's amazing both for men and women like that's something that's so praiseworthy that we can't negate it may not have the glamour of wrote like this amazing tafsir or she founded a university but that's just that's justice praiseworthy and that's Just as amazing. Yeah, that's it. And you think if it's possible for Shekhar Ram Nadwi to do this research they could easily have done it but they choose not to", "And this is the thing and this again where it comes back to who do we take our knowledge of women's rights in Islam or the role of women in Islam, that just because it's a woman. As women I think gender doesn't have to... Well for men I mean but gender does not have to colour every discussion. Gender isn't...", "isn't, this is a very modern phenomena where it's like gender has to be brought into the discussion all the time. And it doesn't, it's an obsession that does in Islam we were, Islam isn't obsessed with gender the way you know, what feminists are because if you like... It's really strange how 20 odd years ago these discussions were not happening so like you said in the MSAs", "we do have to think how much of reabsorbed from liberal thinking and that they're the way that they have this um you know if we don't have everything the same there then it's not it's", "they cast doubt on the authority of hadith and sunnah now this is very very problematic um so i'm going to read um as my father said in an interview and the links again in the article all the links and the quotes are there for you to read uh for yourself but so she says for a believer the quran", "In her book, inequality and discrimination derive not from the teachings of the Quran but from the secondary religious texts, the tafsir and the hadith. Mina Wadud calls, she says there's sexism within the hadif. That's something else that she said. So therefore they because they believe that if any hadith what's interesting is they will take some hadith it's they don't reject all hadith", "the ones that agree with their thinking they will take that but anything that disagrees so for example anything that um explains the authority of um the father or the husband or when we look at family structure so you know the hadith about you all shepherds and it gives explains you know so they will disagree with that because they one they think it's patriarchal", "I listened to the discussions about that. So yeah, it is... I can see why sisters, they see and they don't understand it. And you can assume the worst. But the thing is we don't make assumptions about Quran and Sunnah. We gain knowledge. We go to those who have more knowledge than us. That's what we should always do. But unfortunately now then this is a problem. These women, it's very hypocritical. Not something that is again on Instagram and on... These are the things that are not mentioned.", "that are not mentioned. They'll just keep speaking about equality, but they won't mention this aspect of their thinking. But okay also actually have you noticed in England anyway these writers and thinkers they're mentioned in the Guardian, they're mentioning independent I see their names coming up very often that they'll refer to them as they'll call them scholars. And so again a lay person would think this person knows what I'll take my understanding from them", "I've noticed happening quite a bit as well. But okay, so another thing... Okay yeah we touched upon this a little bit but Islamic feminist scholarship is heavily influenced by liberal thinking. So feminist thinkers fail to acknowledge how much liberalism has affected their study of Islam. This is evident in their definition of equality. So now their definitions vary between number one strict sameness that's one way they view it which then renders", "So, Keisha Ali she's an American writer. She said in a this is from her website feminismandreligion.com", "dominance will not take us nearly far enough whose sharia is this it's certain it's certainly not mine i cannot believe that it is god's so she again pay again patriarchy is coming into this but it's not patriarchy that allows a muslim man to marry christian woman it's allah that allows it but again because it doesn't it's", "rulings that she rejects. But again, I know for example, this is Mona Eltahawy, she says exactly the same thing about polygamy. So therefore she says we should reject it. If it's not equal, we're going to reject it and so because the laws aren't strictly the same then it's problematic. Also some of the other things they define equality as agency and by this they mean choice", "mean choice and this is why some of them uh so for example amina wadud she uh this is a direct quote from her i have recognized and lived the idea that hijab is a public declaration or identity with islamic ideology i do not consider it is a religious obligation nor do i ascribe to", "denotion of modesty as mandated by the Quran and that was an online discussion so again it's not an obligation in another article she wrote there if you if a woman chooses to then it's okay and so does Laila Ahmed she she's another thinker so again this again equality is so the point I was making", "or agency and choice. And where have we heard that before? You know, that's exactly what liberals are telling everyone. So again, it's another very problematic piece of advice that they're giving to women. And the thing is that I know women who they don't wear hijab because of Amina Wadud and because of this, and they'll say she said it so she's a scholar, she knows.", "you're not on the same level as Amina Wadud, so why are you even talking about this? Yeah, subhanAllah. In terms of Islamic being able to take opinions from her she's just as not credible right as your average lay person in terms of actually taking her item and it's interesting with this I actually see some issues with the way that they're saying equality is agency and its choice but then", "but then not accepting the fact that polygamy is allowed. What do you say to a woman who willingly wants to engage in, you know, polygyny? So there's actually contradictions with the limits to what they believe as choice like it's actually just majoritarian values right? You don't really see people around if there's a convert woman who wants to put on hijab right like where is everyone supporting that as a choice so I do see actually contradications within their own understanding", "But, you know this let's just kind of like you said falls in line with larger secular liberal values and taking issue with any kind of authority. The ego as you know as God basically right? You know religion is coming down to my level and whatever I want and however I interpret it is valid there's no imperative for me to improve myself and hit this religious ideal. And I think that's the way that Christianity is practiced in the US at least", "least that's kind of the route it's taken right people just kind of it's a free-for-all and unfortunately if this is the kind of mindset that we people are starting to inculcate i you know that might be the way that you know muslims in the next few generations will start to practice is it's just choice whatever I want everything goes instead of understanding there is an objective ideal the sin isn't in not meeting", "or that this isn't obligatory, or this isn t a virtue. Yeah, yeah, that's very true. Now the other thing that again, this is a very modern projection that they bring in discussions is that so the idea of sameness, any rule that is different, any role in Islam that a man in a place of authority, in particular, they have a real my goodness,", "hatred is only the word that can be used, for the family structure in Islam and they have this idea that men should not have... The authority that Allah has given a husband and a father in the family, they have a big problem with it to the point where even in the Quran when it's mentioned the story of Ibrahim that when he was told", "told to you know that his wife haja he was told to leave her in the area in in the desert now we all know that story and it's but when um amina would do when it's uh against an article for feminism religion that she wrote that she the whole way she looked at that narration in the quran it was very derogatory and she was insulting prophet ibrahim because", "wife ignoring the fact that it was Allah's command that he was following now um and so this is a direct quote from what sure in Muslim cultures the patriarchal family ruled supreme and yet Hajar was literally thrown out in the desert to fend for herself and her child without even a second thought to the impossibility of her location as confirmation", "then says the deadbeat dad sarah the selfish and she swears and even god the benevolent question mark so now this is the and i think now this like the culmination of where their thinking can lead a muslim that it's led them to um question allah's commands question", "she's had no problem repeating that. She tweeted about it, and again I really do think many Muslim women they don't know that these are the kind of vile things that she's saying and I think if they did they would be rejecting her, they'd think twice about following her but it does...I think the most problematic thing is that not all women will get to that point", "And I think that's the kind of, like we have to be very aware of when we go down this path of looking for absolute equality in the Islamic texts. This is what you're not going to find it.", "And they said that they searched for it. So I'm just going to quote Aisha Hidayatullah, she said that she criticizes the blinding dogma that gender equality is the norm established by the Quran and she then said in the time that has passed since then I have become only further convinced", "that are detrimental to them, we must begin to confront these meanings more honestly without resorting to apologetic explanations for them or engaging in interpretive manipulations to force egalitarian meanings from the text. Furthermore I've also come to believe firmly that we must", "she's saying gender equality is not the norm and therefore we have to start reimagining and questioning the divinity of the Quran. Now I was really shocked when I read that because she is, to question what the divunity of the Qur'an, what is she saying? Yeah, I mean it's that kind of methodology if you're seeking out gender sameness, gender equality in secular liberal sense of the word", "the word you're not going to find it and i think dr amina also uh rejected rejects an ayah in the quran you know the one about right striking them um you know that i think you also have a quote here even though i've tried through different methods for two decades i finally come to say no outright to the literal implementation of this passage and the problem is you know taking gender norm", "because you're not going to see it in our tradition. We do have to understand when our understanding of equity, gender equity and relationship between the genders, yes there's an element of patriarchy in certain roles. Men are qawwamun they have responsibility over their family, they have different roles in the public sphere and we also have elements of matriarchy right? When it comes to children, when it comes... They're prioritized for custody", "the premise they're coming from is what's leading to them to do this when instead, they could have gone in the other direction of like no you know we're going to question this premises instead of questioning the sources right. yeah and so I said therefore income a lot of time to research in and be accurate in the quotes that I was using for these women because it's easy to mislabel people feminists or it's", "easy to misquote because we dislike what they're saying. It's easy to not be so rigorous in our research, but I thought we have to be honest as Muslims if we, you know, and so please read the article which is on traversingtradition.com and please share it with sisters or anyone who you feel being influenced by their thinking", "women learn just a little bit about what these women are saying. They won't follow them, it's a lack of knowledge I think here that's why they're gaining you know an audience but what is also interesting is the number of people who do listen to me is still actually very small. It's not a huge...it's just certain voices are quite loud that's all but when i was looking at you know you can", "shallow way of judging but they don't have that many, they're not that active on social media. They're not, they don' t have that followers but when someone I find every now and again someone will use them to what's the word you know to justify not following Islam. That's why I don't like it. It's like they've been used to justified with when someone wants to disobey Allah. And they've made a lifestyle choice. And because they want to have some kind", "and say, oh no, I'm still this is still an Islamic opinion. They will wheel them out. And I thought but actually we need to show that even wheeling them out they like you said, they don't have their basis and their principles are not it's not the foundation is not in Islam. But Alhamdulillah Jazakallah khair here. That was really nice of you to come on to just discuss this topic. It's not easy topic in the world to talk about. No, alhamdulilah. I would add one thing. You know, you're completely right.", "community, the influence they have is very small. The issue is that outside community really loves to cite them breaking barriers. I think I read a Guardian article recently about like a women's only mosque which when they say that usually it's not women's-only, usually it s LGBTQ affirming woman led Juma type of thing which is not valid at all so", "know, people who are aware of these scholars and I say scholars in the term meaning like academics are small. A lot of the ideas that they are peddling, you know, are making its way down to the lay people. And especially for our women it's really important that we make accessing our items and Islamic knowledge accessible for them putting them in touch with qualified Islamic teachers", "feel comfortable asking these questions but at the end of the day you know they come away with this understanding of Islam is the truth and women absolutely do have a place in this tradition it's just the way that these scholars are outlining it, these academics are out lining it. That's not the way we want to go so because of that pressure from the outside community and I remember at least in the US growing up you're always on the defensive oh why can't women", "do empathize with the young girl who's struggling but um uh you know inshallah as we you know we grow as a community doing that for our young women and men as well men as to make more accessible and you know really empower through islamic knowledge not despite it yes yeah that's alhamdulillah i care for that um okay then inshAllah we will speak again I'm sure soon on another topic thank you for having me alhamdolillah pleasure", "Alhamdulillah, it's a pleasure. Pleasure as always. Mainstream media outlets do not cater for the needs of you as a Muslim. There are topics which they will completely ignore. For example, the hijab ban that is happening in India, the Islamophobia that Muslim women all over in the West are facing. They don't even report Palestine or Syria in a balanced manner. So through my podcast and my YouTube channel,", "channel, I discuss the topics specifically related to Muslim women that particular mainstream popular culture will not discuss. Topics like critiquing feminism, topics such as number of hijab bands, niqab bands happening in India, in France, in Canada. These are challenges that Muslim", "So, inshallah I would love your help and support in continuing to create this content for Muslim women which is challenging the very negative Islamophobic narrative that we are being given.", "hand, we can speak about it or we can hate it in our heart and I think some of us are able to create videos on podcasts and others who are not able to do that like yourself you can support that work as well and gain in the reward inshallah by contributing and supporting to my Patreon page. The link is in the description below. Inshallah may Allah reward you and please do the", "challenge this Islamophobic narrative. But always remember that Allah is" ]
amina_mccloud/Stephen Mehler_ James Churchward_ Aminah McCloud __wiPEuiU_5T4&pp=ygUVQW1pbmFoIE1jQ2xvdWQgIGlzbGFt_1742894311.opus	[ "Peace. I'm Rami Salam El, Grand Sheik of the International Asiatic Moorish Hip Hop Temple No. 23, a subordinate temple of the Moorshine's Temple of America. The segment you are viewing now is entitled More Jewels Uncovered. And this is where we dig into different texts, books, readings, and we find some of our history that's been hidden within the pages. Today we have three books that we will be looking into.", "looking into the first is African American Islam by Amina Beverly McLeod. The second is the Land of Osiris by Stephen S Mailer and last but not least is the Continent of Mu by Colonel James Churchward", "read real briefly because in the teachings of the Holy Quran it says that man knows not by being told so I urge you and I almost demand a few to look into these texts yourself to confirm what i'm reading is accurate and wise and exact moving right along in Aminah's book first chapter entitled The Early Communities 1900-1960", "and were perceived as a new job competition by recent European immigrants. African Americans articulated diverse responses to this precarious social and political situation, creating the religious communities.", "The Nation of Islam in 1930, the African American Mosque in 1933, Islamic Brotherhood in 1929, Universal Islamic Society in 1926. But the first recorded community as is labeled by Amina is the Moor Science Temple, 1913.", "Although it doesn't seem as accurate. And I may contribute that to perhaps where she drew some of her studies from, I'm not sure. But I would like to inform you that Amina Beverly McLeod is an assistant professor in the Department of Religious Studies at DePaul University.", "DePaul University. Founded in 1898, DePaul is the largest Catholic university in the nation and the largest private institution in Chicago.", "And you can deduce what you would like from that. Moving along in the land of Osiris, chapter 15 is entitled Kemet and the Myth of Atlantis.", "ever since Plato brought the concept to the Western world in two of his dialogues, The Timaeus and the Critias written in the 4th century BC. Plato claimed the story was passed down to the Greek statesman Solon by Egyptian priests. Several other Greek and Roman authors also related similar stories of a great ancient civilization that perished in a series of cataclysmic earth changes.", "The story of the Great Flood has been found in mythology and literature of almost all peoples worldwide, which has convinced many authors that it was a real event.", "very near in time to Plato's dates for the fall of Atlantis around 11,500 years ago. From my extensive research and interest in metaphysics I became aware that Plato's Atlantis story and stories of even older civilizations such as that of Lumeria in the Pacific Ocean are accepted parts of the Western metaphysical tradition. Groups", "the Freemasons, Theosophical Society, Association of Research and Enlightenment, Order of the Golden Dawn, and Poor Knights of the Temple of Solomon have all accepted the myth of Atlantis as a real event that occurred in time and space.", "I just wanted to highlight specifically some of the very interesting information that comes along with the story of Atlantis. For further research, I would advise you to look into the movie called Atlantis by Disney. Very, very amazing information hidden within that movie as well.", "Lost Continent of Moo. I wanted to show you a figure. Just lost my page if you bear with me for one moment.", "It is on page 56 and it's entitled the geographical position of Mu. I'm trying to highlight this so that you can get a good picture, and I'll also try to find an accurate link so perhaps you can see it yourself.", "But Mu would be right there. This would be North America, South America. And over there is Asia.", "conclusively prove that this land was the biblical Garden of Eden. Prove that Mu lay to the west of America and to the east of Asia, and therefore in the Pacific Ocean. I mean, this book here is something else. You know, uh... I skipped over to chapter 7. The Age of Mu's Civilization.", "Civilization. Check this out. Chapter 7, mind you. I have asserted that the civilization of Mu dates back to more than 50,000 years ago.", "is between 10,000 and 50,000 years old. Very interesting coincidence. Chapter 7. I don't know what that means. Further on... Let's see anything else that I wanted to highlight. I'll just read the back real quick. Moo! The Motherland.", "The Church War became close friends with the High Temple priest who taught him how to decipher several stone tablets which had laid hidden for centuries in the temple vaults. They told of a vast civilization, which had emerged, flourished and decayed long before our own – the continent of Mu. This is Church War's story and how he followed the trail of Mu to the ends of Earth and pieced together the picture of civilization whose influence is still felt throughout", "Though now lost in the mist of time, move the motherland. And just to highlight one point is that there's also been spellings of more as M-U-U are. Maybe it's a coincidence. Until next time, keep digging." ]
amina_wadud/130 Pandangan Amina Wadud tentang Poligami - Ngaji_Wiqmf3cf04c&pp=ygURQW1pbmEgV2FkdWQgaXNsYW0%3D_1742924245.opus	[ "Assalamu'alaikum warahmatullahi wabarakatuh. Alhamdulillah, assalatu wassalamu ala rasulullah, Sayyidina Muhammadin wa ala alihi wa ashabihi wa maw'ala. Amma ba'du faya ayuhal hadirun, ittaqulloh halla anlakum tuflihun. Pada kesempatan ini, marilah kita membahas tentang pandangan Aminah Wadud terhadap poligami.", "Teman-teman para mahasiswa dan para santri, kita mulai. Aminah Wadud itu seorang pemikir wanita muslim Amerika yang menekankan kajiannya pada masalah-masalah wanita dengan pendekatan hermeneutik. Pernah mengajar di Malaysia juga tentang masalah yang sama yaitu wanita. Sedangkan Aminnah Wadun", "Dia memiliki pandangan terhadap poligami dengan mengawalinya pada pandangan dia suruh An-Nisa ayat 3. Pertama, menurut dia, ayat ini berkaitan dengan perlakuan terhadап anak yatim, yakni wali pria yang bertanggung jawab untuk mengelola kekayaan anak perempuan yatim harus berlaku adil dalam mengelolah kekayaaan tersebut.", "Itu dalam surah An-Nisa ayat yang kedua. Salah satu pemecahan yang dianjurkan untuk mencegah terjadinya kesalahan dalam pengelolaan tersebut adalah dengan menikahi wanita yatim.", "111-112. Kedua, ayat 3 dari suruhan Nisa menekankan keadilan, yakni mengadakan perjanjian dengan adil, mengelola harta dengan adal, adil terhadap anak yatim dan adil", "Mufasir modern berkesimpulan Monogami sebagai Perkawinan yang disukai Al-Quran Mestinya Ihwal saling melengkapi Antara suami dan istri Itu dalam surah al-Baqarah Ayat 187 Hunna libasul lakum Wa'angtum libasu lahun Itu Untuk membentuk keluarga Yang penuh cinta kasih Dan ketenteraman", "Seperti dalam surah Ar-Rum ayat ke 21 Tidak mungkin tepat tercapai jika seorang suami sekaligus ayah Membagi cinta kepada lebih dari satu keluarga Demikian menurut pandangan Aminah Dalam wanita halaman 112 Terhadap pendapat bahwa Satu, suami yang mampu secara finansial", "karena alasan kemandulan dapat menjadi alasan untuk poligami? Aminah menjawab, pertama banyak wanita yang tidak lagi membutuhkan pria untuk memenuhi kebutuhan finansial. Kedua, tidak pernah disebutkan dalam Al-Quran alasan gemandulan sebagai alasan poligamik. Jangan keluar untuk kasus mandul, menurut Aminnah adalah dapat dengan cara mengangkat anak orang miskin atau anak yatim", "atau anak yatim yang bapaknya wapat karena perang. Hubungan darah memang penting, tetapi bukan unsur penilaian tertinggi. Ketiga menurut dia alasan poligami sebagai pemuasek jelas tidak sejalan dengan Al-Quran. Menurut bukunya wanita di dalam Al-Kuran. Demikian teman-teman pandangan Aminah Wadud", "Terhadap poligami Mudah-mudahan bermanfaat Wassalamualaikum warahmatullahi wabarakatuh" ]
amina_wadud/ADA YANG TAHU SIAPA FILSUF CANTIK AMINA WADUD __ ___1742906239.opus	[ "Amina Wadud adalah seorang cendekiawan Islam dan aktivis yang terkenal karena kontribusinya dalam pemahaman feminis dalam konteks agama Islam. Ia menjadi sorotan publik ketika pada tahun 2005. Dia memimpin sholat Jum'at campuran di mana laki-laki dan perempuan beribadah bersama. Tindakan ini mengundang perdebatan dan kontroversi dalam dunia Islam. Wadu telah menulis banyak karya yang mendukung gagasan kesetaraan gender dalam Islam, dan bukunya yang terkennal adalah Quran and Woman,", "Dalam karya-karya tersebut, ia berusaha untuk meredefinisi interpretasi terhadap ajaran-ajaran Islam dalam konteks kesetaraan gender. Amina Wadud telah menjadi tokoh penting dalam gerakan feminis Islam dan terus memperjuangkan hak-hak perempuan dan peran mereka dalam tradisi Islam." ]
amina_wadud/al jazeera on Amina Wadud_jrqoNNAOYlQ&pp=ygURQW1pbmEgV2FkdWQgaXNsYW0%3D_1743319038.opus	[ "ذلك ان تسعين مسلما ومسلمة الذين حضروا هذه الصلاة لا يتحدثون اللغة العربية ثم جاءت اللحظة التي انتظرها الجميع امت الدكتورة اول صلاة جمعة كما ارادت واراد منظم الحدث قامت الدکتورات بالصلاة شهرا ووراها نساء ورجال لم يروا مانعا شرعيا في الصلاa خلف امرأة او الاختلاط اثناء الصلاه", "لكثر التقاليد استفت المصليات في الصفوف الامامية بذلك عبرت المصلية عن كسرهن لما يقولن انها قيود فرضها المتطرفون والمتعصبون على النساء في المساجد حيث هدمت حقوقهن الروحية برأيهن في الخارج الثمانية ملايين مسلم الذين يعشون في الولايات المتحدة غضوا الطرف عن تلك الصلاة لكن اقل من عشر منهم", "اخيرا انا اسأل لماذا تحترم كل الديانات لماذة تحترا خصوصية كل الثقافات لما هذا العبث والتطور الواضح الان على الاسلام باقي مسلمي امريكا وهم بالملائين فغادوا عن هذه الصلاة واعتبروها بدعة حرام في الاسلم اما الصاهرة على هذه التظاهرة فيقولن الان انهن حققن اليوم انتصارا تاريخيا وهن مستعدات الان لاقتساح حسب قولهن باقى امركا بلدة بلده ومدينة مدينه", "نصر حسيني الجزيرة من مانهاتن نيويورك" ]
amina_wadud/Allah transcends gender by amina wadud__1742925491.opus	[ "We take the word zakar to mean male and we take the verb kumdaa to mean female, but actually it's an articulation of masculine and feminine. And masculine and feminin is not exclusive to any one body. Every body, I mean in a physical sense, every body must have masculine attributes in order to get things done because masculine is a metaphysical expression of activity. Feminine is a", "expression of receptivity. We must also be receptive because Allah is the power of the universe that we all wish to receive in order to fulfill our agency or khilafah on the earth. So there has always been an intimate relationship between masculine and feminine within our single bodies, and it is a mirror of the reality of sacred masculinity and the sacred femininity of Allah. Allah has feminine attributes, Allah has masculine attributes, and yet Allah transcends gender. Allah's not male, Allah's" ]
amina_wadud/Al Qur_an dan Paradigma Feminis Amina Wadud Muhsin_IkmHEYpFubw&pp=ygURQW1pbmEgV2FkdWQgaXNsYW0%3D_1742901982.opus	[ "Assalamualaikum warahmatullahi wabarakatuh. Saya Zuhratul Maryam dengan NIM E7321-9071 dalam mata kuliah Tafsir Kontemporer yang diampu oleh Bapak Yardo akan mengulas kembali pelajaran kita yakni Al-Quran dan Paradigma Feminis Aminah Wadud Musim. Nah, dari judulnya sendiri kita akan bisa menjelaskan", "bisa menerka bahwa dalam pembahasan ini kita akan melihat sudut pandang Amina Wadud Musin dalam memandang Al-Quran dalam paradigma feminisnya. Nah, namanya sendiri bahwa Amina wadud musin itu sebelumnya adalah Mary Tessley sebelum masuk Islam. Setelah masuk Islam, agama Islam dia berganti menjadi Amina", "1952 di Bethesda, Amerika. Aminah Wadud Muhsin ini sebenarnya bisa dikatakan sebagai ulama yang sangat kontroversial dalam abad ini. Bukan hanya dalam abat ini ya. Ya sudah lebih dari satu abad. Sudah dalam 1400-an", "Nah, kenapa kok dikatakan kontroversial Aminah Wadud ini pernah menjadi imam masjid yang waktu itu makmumnya adalah seorang laki-laki dan perempuan campur adu bahkan menjadi iman suha jumat. Kapan? Beliau, Aminnah Waduk Mohsin ini pernah", "Nah ini yang pertama, di sebuah gereja Anglikan di Sundram Tagore Gallery 137 Green Street Manhattan New York Amerika Serikat Yang diikuti oleh kurang lebih 100 orang jemaah laki-laki dan perempuan campur adu Nah jadi ini lumayan banyak, makmumnya lumayan Bukan lumayan, sudah banyak 100 orang Berhenti disitu Kedua kembali menjadi imam dan khotib di Oxford Center", "Oxford Center tanggal 17 Oktober 2008. Jadi dalam rentan waktu yang 3 tahun, 2005 2006, 2007, 2008. Wadud ini menjadi imam sholat di pusat pendidikan muslim di Oxford dengan makmum laki-laki dan perempuan. Di situ yang mengundang Imam Wadu Musin ini kok Imam Wado Musin?", "Aminah Wadud Muhsin ini jadi imam, yakni aktivis liberal dari pusat pendidikan Muslim Oxford Mekoh sebagai pihak pengundang wadud yang berdalih bahwa sebenarnya tidak ada larangan dalam Al-Quran yang melarang seorang perempuan itu menjadi imam. Nah tentu dari kedua kegiatan yang dilakukan sangat kontroversial ini", "ulama lain untuk berkomentar. Nah, di sini kita lihat salah satu komentarnya Syah Yusuf Al-Kordawi. Tentu karena waktu itu dimanapun sampai sekarang sebelum Imam Aminah Wadud Muhsin ini jadi imam masih belum ada perempuan yang jadi imams.", "atas aksi wadud tersebut dengan mengatakan sebagai bid'ah yang mungkar. Nah, juga selain itu, mengatkan bahwa banyak ulama-ulama timur itu yang mengatakannya musuh Islam. Selain itu juga ada ulama yang pro, Khaled Abu al-Fadl, ahli fikih dari Uqla School of Law menegaskan bahwa tidak ada larangan dari Al-Quran tentang masalah ini.", "Nah, selanjutnya. Di sini dikatakan bahwa kenapa kok bisa lahir pemikiran yang Aminah Wadud seperti itu?", "orang-orang perempuan Afrika Amerika. Nah, secara sosial lingkungannya, sosial konteksnya Amina Wadud Musin ini tumbuh dalam pengamatan di mana ayah ibunya ini ayahnya Amerika, ibunya dari Afrika. Jadi disitu ada pergumulan antara konteks historis di mana apa yang terjadi dari perembuan itu.", "Sehingga ada upaya untuk memperjuangkan keadilan gender. Kita lihat di sini bahwa ini adalah salah satu hutbahnya Aminah Wadud Musim, ini potongannya. Tidak ada ayat dalam Al-Quran yang menyebutkan bahwa perempuan tidak boleh menjadi imam pada abad ketujuh Nabi Muhammad SAW", "Nabi Muhammad SAW pernah mengizinkan perempuan menjadi imam bagi jamaah laki-laki dan perembuan. Nabi Muhammad meminta Ummu Warokoh menjadi imams dalam sholat bagi Jemaah di luar kota Madinah. Nah, hadis yang mana itu? Di sini kita lihat hadisnya.", "Dari Ummi Warokoh binti Abdullah bin Haris mengatakan bahwa Rasulullah SAW mengunjungi Ummi warokoh. Di mana? Fi baitihah, di dalam rumahnya. Jadi ini perlu menjadi tinjauan lagi ya sepertinya. Fi baitiyah, didalam rumahnya wa ja'alalah muabdinan dan menjadikan bagi Ummu Warokho tersebut muabtinan.", "seorang tukang adan, untuk mengadankan ke Umi Warokoh dan memerintahkan siapa Nabi kepada Umi warokoh untuk mengimami sholat ahladariha. Orang yang berada dalam rumahnya itu, rumahnya Umiwarokoh.", "Berkata Abdurrahman, Maka sesungguhnya saya melihat siapa saya. Itu adalah laki-laki yang sangat tua. Dari hadis ini dikatakan bahwa Nabi Muhammad meminta umuh warokoh", "Amat meminta Umar Warokoh menjadi imam. Ini sementara ini ada penjelasan, menurut Ali Mustafa Yaqub, guru besar ilmu hadis pada IEKI Jakarta, seorang ulama dan pakar hadis berpendapat bahwa walaupun hadis Umar warokoh dari silsilah hadis dinilai sahih akan tetapi untuk dijadikan sebagai dalil", "perlu ditinjau ulang. Karena dalam hadis tersebut tidak ada kejelasan siapa-siapa yang menjadi makmumnya. Apakah perempuan semua, laki-laki semua atau campuran laki dan perepuan? Jadi, hadis ini mengandung banyak kemungkinan. Maka dalil terse but tidak bisa dijadikan sebagai sumber hukum oleh karenanya hadis Umroh Rokoh tersebub walaupun Sohei tetap dinilai gurur sebagai dalil.", "Terlepas dari itu semua, kenapa kok bisa ada pemahaman yang seperti ini? Ya ini ada dua poin yang dikatakan oleh Umu Warokoh bahwa sebenarnya segala bentuk penafsiran itu tidak ada yang objektif. Semuanya membawa pre-understandingnya masing-masing. Semua membawa bias subjektifnya masi-masi. Nah jadi untuk mengatakan hal penafsyiran itu objektiv sangat tidak mungkin. Jadi pasti", "akan terbawa pre-understandingnya. Karena selama ini penafsiran yang ada itu lebih membawa banyak ke hal yang dibawa oleh kaum laki-laki, maka perlu adanya pre- understanding yang berangkat dari seorang perempuan, menafsir seorang", "Jadi sebenarnya dilihat dari karya klasik yang ada, bahwa beliau-beliau itu menempatkan Al-Quran di second personality. Padahal diliihat dalam surat Anisa ayat 1, Ya Ayyuhanna suttaku rabbakumulladziya qalaqakumin nafsi wahidah. Jadi itu dikatakan dalam nafsu wahidahlah. Bahasa sama saja laki-laki dan perempuan sama. Nah, dari situ...", "Jadi alasan-alasan yang berangkat dilakukan oleh Aminah Wadud Musyid ini, yakni satu, alasan second personality. Kedua, alusan feminis HAM. Nah jadi ada gerakan feminis hak asasi manusia yang digincarkan. Ketiga, analisis lingkungan praktek sholat Jum'at tersebut. Kalau dianalisis waktu itu, hal itu dilaksanakan di barang", "di barat, dimana di barak itu perbedaan agama sangat dijunjung tinggi. Jadi ketika hal itu terjadi maka yang lain tidak ada larangan, penyetopan malah didatangkan media dan media meliput dan sebagainya. Berbeda dengan di daerah timur, ketika ini terjadi tentu akan banyak ulama", "masuk dalam masjid pun akan banyak ulama yang akan melarangnya. Jadi, dapat kita pahami bahwa gerakan feminis yang dibawa oleh Amina Waduhusin sendiri itu berangkat dari ini. Bahwa penafsir klasik cenderung menempatkan perempuan di second personality terus yang kedua", "Kedua pergerakan feminis HAM. Dan yang ketiga itu mengatakan bahwa tidak ada pemahaman yang objektif, pasti membawa pre-understandingnya masing-masing. Jadi perlu ada pembawa pre understanding dari sosok perempuan dalam pemahamannya Al-Quran. Sekian dari saya kurang lebihnya mohon maaf. Wassalamualaikum warahmatullahi wabarakatuh." ]
amina_wadud/Amina Wadud à l_EHESS _1_4_ - CALEM conference_ Pa_T9C88ZUzqJY&pp=ygURQW1pbmEgV2FkdWQgaXNsYW0%3D_1743316878.opus	[ "Bonsoir, bienvenue à vous tous. Nous sommes extrêmement heureuses et heureux d'accueillir aujourd'hui Amina Woudou pour cette conférence intitulée Féminisme, Genre, Sexualité et Nouvelle Théologie Islamique. Cette conférence a été organisée dans le cadre de deux séminaires. Un séminaire de l'ISM qui travaille sur le monde", "qui travaille sur le monde arabe et musulman, que j'organise, intitulé Féminité, masculinité en jeu moraux et éthique contemporain dans les mondes arabes et musulemans. Et dans le cadre également d'un séminaire de l'école, de l'SESS, co-organisé par Florence Bergeau-Blaclercq, qui est ici, et par Martine Grosse, qui n'a pas pu être avec nous aujourd'hui, Identité et pratiques homosexuelles dans le judaïsme, le christianisme et l'islam contemporains.", "Cette conférence a aussi été organisée dans le cadre de Calem, dont nous avons ici le coordinateur. Donc Ludovic Zahed, nous allons tout d'abord présenter brièvement l'intervenante Amina Mouadoud pour ceux et celles qui ne la connaîtraient pas. Puis nous aurons donc une discussion avec Eric Fassin enseignant à l'ENS, à l''école et chercheur à l´IRIS", "à l'IRIS, que tout le monde connaît je pense ici. Florence Bergeau-Blaclaire qui est chercheure à lir et mâme à Aix en Provence Ludovic Lotfi Mohamed Zahed qui est doctorant à luhess coordinateur de Calem et HM2F et moi même donc il suis chercheur également au CNRS à Lir et Mâmes", "Je vais passer la parole à Ludovic Lotfi Mohamed Zahed, qui va nous parler un petit peu de Calem et qui a beaucoup contribué aussi à ce que cette conférence puisse avoir lieu. Puis il y a Florence qui présentera Amina Wadoud et je reprendrai la parole avant de lui laisser la parole.", "C'est gentiment proposé de faire des petites traductions toutes les 15 minutes afin de faciliter l'écoute pour ceux qui ne seraient pas complètement familiers, particulièrement avec un langage académique en anglais. Et ensuite nous aurons une discussion qui aura lieu en anglaise mais bien évidemment si des personnes souhaitent poser une question en français on traduira donc on sera dans un bilinguisme", "bricolage, mais on espère qu'on s'en sortira quand même bien. Merci Stéphanie. Bonsoir à tout le monde et merci d'être venus si nombreux pour une conférence quand même assez particulière. On a la chance de pouvoir organiser cette année grâce à la venue d'Amina Wadoud que nous remercions chaleureusement de s'être donné la peine de rester à Paris pour nous voir. Donc Ludovic Zahed, je suis doctorant à l'EHESS", "Je suis Laurent à l'EHESS, à propos d'islam et homosexualité en anthropologie du fait religieux. Je cherche à comprendre comment les homosexuels musulmans ou d'origine musulmane arrivent à concilier ou pas leur rapport à la sexualité au quotidien et à la tradition, à la spiritualité voire à la religion.", "depuis quelques années à m'intéresser à ce sujet de manière de plus en plus particulière, de fonder un collectif citoyen qui s'appelle HM2F, Homosexuels et Musulmans de France, il y a deux ans. Et d'initier la conférence Calem que nous organisons pour la seconde année consécutive à Paris mais aussi à Bruxelles cette année,", "autour de la diversité des identités de genre et des orientations sexuelles au sein de l'islam avec un grand I en tant que civilisation, etc. Donc encore une fois c'est le sujet principal de mes recherches à l'heure actuelle et cela m'a amené à m'intéresser de manière plus particulière à ce que l'on appelle, à tort ou à raison tout ça va être présenté par Amina Wadoud comme le féminisme islamique", "qui partagent beaucoup d'axes de réflexion intellectuelle, activiste aussi sur le terrain au quotidien avec ce que de plus en plus de chercheurs ou d'individus appellent l'activisme LGBT islamique. LGBT donc la chronique qui signifie lesbienne gay bisexuel transsexuel. Pourquoi? Parce que c'est ces deux mouvements", "tendent à tenter de réinterpréter l'héritage culturel, voire religieux que représente l'islam. Donc merci encore une fois Amina Wadoud, à Stéphanie, à Florence, à Martine Grosse qui n'est pas là mais qui est là de tout cœur avec nous et à Eric Fassin de nous faire la gentillesse d'être ici et merci à vous encore une", "Merci d'avoir accepté notre invitation.", "l'islam vous a aidé à comprendre vos expériences du christianisme et du bouddhisme. Vous vous inscrivez dans un courant de réforme de l'Islam dit des musulmans inclusifs, un courANT libéral et pluriel qui s'est développé dans les années 90 aux États-Unis en marche et parfois en opposition au courant conservateur et néo fondamentaliste de l islam c'est donc", "Islam inclusif, que vous avez commencé à développer une lecture féminine du Coran publiée dans un ouvrage intitulé « Quran and Women » le Coran et la femme. Je dis bien d'ailleurs une lecture feminine car initialement vous avez rejeté l'appellation de féministe. Finalement aujourd'hui vous avez accepté", "Peut-être aurez vous l'occasion de nous en dire, de nous dire la raison de ce changement. Dans Inside the Jain Jihad votre deuxième ouvrage vous expliquez que le Coran peut et même doit être lu d'un point de vue genré à la lumière du contexte actuel. Ce qui n'est pas tout à fait la même chose que de dire qu'il doit être relu en fonction du contextes historiques", "dites que l'interprétation n'est jamais complète, que la signification n''est jamais immuable. Vous insistez donc sur le point de vue du lecteur comme acteur ce qui est en effet l'inverse de ce que prône le néo fondamentalisme dominant aussi dans les institutions de l'islam en France par exemple qui fait du Coran un texte sacré, incréé donné indépendamment des interprétations. Donc vous", "votre attachement profond au Coran, source d'inspiration constante et simultanément votre rejet d'un littéralisme étroit dont il est selon vous trop souvent victime. On peut et on doit dites-vous discuter le Coran je vous cite", "scolastique patriarcale. Et dire non, pour vous, à ce qui n'est pas acceptable ne signifie pas bien sûr rejeter le Coran. Voilà Stéphanie si tu veux ajouter. Tout à fait en fait on peut dire qu'il y a peut-être deux périodes à la fois dans votre pensée et également", "également dans ce mouvement, dans ce courant intellectuel du féminisme islamique. Parce qu'aujourd'hui le fémininisme islámique n'est plus seulement un mouvement intellectuel tel qu'il a démarré à partir des années 90 avec Amina et d'autres. Aujourd'hui il est aussi devenu... Il s'incarne également dans les mouvements sociaux on y reviendra dans la discussion mais donc deux périodes une première période où il ya une historisation des textes", "textes et des traditions fondatrices, et notamment du Coran, avec un travail sur la langue et sur différents concepts. Dans ce livre qu'a mentionné Florence, « Quran and Women, Rereading the Sacred Texts from a Woman's Perspective » de 1992, où déjà il y avait quand même un travail assez fort sur des concepts tels que l'unité de Dieu, le Tahrid,", "à remettre en question l'idée d'une supériorité des hommes sur les femmes, puisqu'à partir du moment où quelqu'un va s'ériger au-dessus d'un autre être humain, c'était une manière de se mettre au niveau de Dieu tel que vous l'avez expliqué. Et donc ça contredisait ce principe du Tahrid. Donc déjà ce premier livre était assez fort mais c'est vrai qu'avec le deuxième ouvrage et donc le début des années 2000, Inside the Jannah Jihad", "Et le travail d'Amina Woudou devient aussi plus radical avec Scadif-Laurence, cette façon de dire non, de concevoir le Coran comme un texte ouvert, non figé, qui peut être réinterprété.", "Et les ibadat, qui sont les obligations rituelles et religieuses. Ceux-ci permettent d'intervenir sur ces moram alaïd, ce que régissent les différents codes du statut personnel et de la famille dans les pays arabes et musulmans, qui pour une part, régissent le droit des femmes. Cette distinction permet notamment de retravailler ces codes du statu personnel.", "Dans la lignée du travail d'Amina, il y a aussi par exemple quelqu'un comme Zibamir Hosseini qui a aussi bien différencié finalement deux choses différentes. Ce qu'on appelle communément la charia mais qui n'est que la voie révélée par Dieu, du fihr, le droit musulman qui lui aussi inspire ses codes du statut personnel et donc sont soumis à des interprétations historiques", "forcément, à un certain moment de l'histoire des histoires sexistes. Donc en fait c'est sûr que le travail d'Aminaz est vraiment ce travail à partir de l''esprit du texte plus que la lecture littérale et essayer de tirer de cet esprit du test des façons de l interpréter qui soit en accord avec les conceptions contemporaines de la justice et de l égalité. Et dans cet ouvrage donc il y a des choses qu'elle refuse complètement", "l'histoire de la violence de l'époux à l'égard de sa femme, le darabah sur lequel dans le premier ouvrage elle essayait de faire un travail sémantique, linguistique sur cette notion de darabach mais là elle est complètement réfutée. La question d'esclavage ou la question de la polygamie en avançant l'idée que ce rejet est conforme à l'sprit et aux principes élevés du Coran ainsi qu'aux conceptions donc comme je l'ai dit contemporaines de la justice et de l''égalité. Bon on va laisser... Je vais laisser la parole à Amina Woudout qui", "Amina Woudoud qui... Voilà, et ensuite on discutera des différents aspects de sa communication.", "and all other matters. Really very grateful for the introductions, and just in case I didn't catch it with my translator, I will speak for short periods, and there will be a summation in French to help us inshallah share these ideas together.", "an important part of the challenge of dealing with this kind of work. I apologize that I don't have the French to do my own presentation in French, and I'm just rethinking exactly what I was going to say to make it clear where is a break so that we can have these summaries. But I will tell you first of all what I intend to do", "which is to discuss three major approaches to gender reform amongst Muslim women. The three that I have chosen is not exhaustive of all the approaches, so there will be many positions in between which I will not give consideration unless", "I want to talk about these three because I want identify one of them in particular, Islamic feminism, in a way to clarify the perspective and methodology of Islamic feminism distinct from the other two. But these things did not come forward in a vacuum. They are now,", "And they have evolved. I think she mentioned that I myself have evolved, I think the last time that I presented in France. I would not call myself a feminist because of points I hope to raise with you here and now when I can say that I'm an Islamic feminist what is the distinction? So this is what I want to share with you mostly.", "the historical developments of our own modernity because sometime in the last few centuries globally we have moved to the consensus in a phenomena called the nation state. But the nation states did not come into being in most parts of the world until those parts were colonized by the architects", "of this nation-state ideology, polity and structure. And this is true in the context of Muslim majority parts of the world. And there were certain consequences to the colonial legacy with regard to the issues of modernity, in particular with regard", "of the empire, which was really only in the last century. When we remove the notion of the Empire nation states began to grapple with their identity what does it mean to be in this particular nation as opposed to another nation and what is it mean", "involves a revolution to actually overthrow certain architects of colonialism which were acting as leaders in the context of the yet-to-be clearly formulated nation state. And, uh, the movement was characterized by a kind of nationalism that is the assumption", "Some of the borders, as you know, were problematic and then you give them 50 years, 100 years. And eventually there was another nation state just take Sudan as of last year was one nation state now it is two. But the beginning of this phenomena for many Muslim majority areas was one where", "participated in by the members of that country, male and female. In fact, the thrust to define your own national identity was equally important to women and men. So organizing in order to overthrow empirical powers was something that women and", "to affect the gender debates today is that women did not become full and equal beneficiaries of the consequences of those nationalist movements. And as soon as they recognized this, they began to organize as women for women as full citizens of the nation state. According to Margot Badran,", "women's activity for conclusion to where it is that we are today. So I want you to remember the location of this new evolution from empire to nation state and the possibility that all citizens could equally participate in that transformation, but unfortunately the consequence that not all citizens equally benefited,", "and not given opportunities to participate in leadership, in formations of governments, sometimes even an equal education. And this was the beginning of women establishing a consciousness that was specific to their gender in the context of the Muslim nation states.", "C'est-à-dire que sa propre position a changé puisque la dernière fois qu'elle était en France, elle ne se présentait pas et elle y reviendra comme féministe elle-même. Et donc ses positions changent. Elle les inscrit dans un contexte historique qui est d'abord celui de la constitution des États-nations ces derniers siècles mais cette histoire, elle est prise dans une autre histoire qui est celle de la colonisation et c'est vrai également pour l'islam.", "Le passage de l'Empire aux États-nations, il s'est passé dans un langage qui est celui de l'dentité. De la partenance et en particulier les la révolution contre le colonialisme elle s'était généralement dans des langages nationalistes et ces nationalismes ont une importance égale pour les femmes et les hommes mais néanmoins les effets ont été inégaux.", "inégaux et les bénéfices ont été inégals selon qu'il s'agissait d'hommes ou de femmes. Et dès lors, les femmes ont été amenées à s'organiser en tant que femmes pour défendre les intérêts des femmes et pour remettre en cause le partage qui était institué dans le cadre de beaucoup de ces États-nations, cette relégation en particulier dans la sphère domestique et cette exclusion en particulier de la sphaire publique et de la sfaire des élites dirigeantes.", "In many ways, the nation state had some disadvantages for Muslims who had a collective idea of ummah which was realized in the empire. In fact it was also I think the beginning of a kind of identity search that would go on", "identity that was located in this new phenomena of the nation state, was not formulating an identity that related to your religious belief, to your relationship to Allah. And there was I think a certain amount of ambivalence between these two identities because the architects of the", "of a member, of a citizen in relationship to the divine concern. So you could be a member of a nation state and you didn't have to believe in God that was fine but you couldn't be a remember of Islam and not believe in god so this is one of the places where a kind of ambivalence about the relationship of religion to the legal structures, the constitutions and like whereby we would rule a number of citizens", "citizens. Old rules, which I don't want to go into at great length but old rules that said that Muslims were full and equal citizens and non-Muslims were dhimmi obviously were not functionally operative when you start talking about citizenship under the structure of a new nation state. And this ambivalence, I think, affects a lot of aspects of further aspects of identity development including", "uh... it was interesting that the structures of the nation state required codification of laws in such a way to simulate again more or less the western model and muslim personal status laws, muslim family laws had not been codified in books until the end of colonialism and the beginning of the", "had been the flexibility of just a basic understanding of the function of Muslim laws or I'm not going to say Sharia yet, I am going to try and define that. But in the area of Muslim personal status laws and Muslim family laws codes began to be formulated and put down into books that became very rigid for the flexibility that previously existed within Islamic legal system. And so there were several ways in which certain binds", "put on women in terms of both their participation in the nation state and the sustaining of their identity as Muslims and women at the same time. So when women began to organize for themselves in the 20th century, in many parts of the Muslim world they did not identify themselves as secular but they certainly were trying to identify themselves", "branches of Islamic Muslim women's movement that I want to discuss. I think this is a later development, and I want you to kind of follow as I arrive at that place. But at least to note the idea in modernity of women working for themselves and about their particular interests and about", "side by side with the development of the notion of citizenship. And a citizen has to be a competent member, that is a contributor and also a beneficiary from the nation state. And so this brought in an emphasis on things like general rise in education, a mandate for women to be educated, girls to be", "you know, as a part of the phenomena of the nation state itself. And education at least as a retired professor this is not me, no. Education at least for me as a retiied professor is a very important tool of empowerment because as soon as people come to know things they begin also to question things and so there", "is no final understanding of something, there is always a process of coming to understand something. And so for women who were engaged in the women's movement in the early-for Muslim women who are engaged in women's movements in the earlier part of the previous century finding out that everybody in the world doesn't operate the same way that you're operating under some", "under some understanding of what is correct Islamically, challenges whether or not you will repeat that for your own identity development. And clearly the women's suffrage movements in the West were already in motion and Muslim women developing within their own nation-states became familiar with these kinds of", "the idea, for example of full and equal rights before the law. The idea of access to the benefits within any context of resources be they political or be they intellectual, be they economic. And so the question of whether or not Muslim women were actually fully in possession of the same benefits that Muslim men were in the context", "arose and was discussed explicitly by Muslims, and also was discussed relative to the ongoing understanding of Islam which we will come back to as well. So the beginnings of Muslim women's movements I think that is claimed by the three voices that I would like to describe to you, the beginnings are really one in the same", "that asserts certain questions with regard to who am I and where am I going, and why am I in that direction. And it placed even our understanding of our identity as Muslims in question because this is the smallest kernel", "Je demande l'indulgence générale et les corrections.", "Et les corrections de tout le monde.", "La croyance en Dieu est essentielle. Un point historique que souligne Amina Wadoud, c'est le fait qu'il s'agisse du statut personnel ou qu'ils s'agitent du droit de la famille. La codification des droits musulmans est tardive et qu'elle a contribué à rigidifier ce droit et à le décontextualiser.", "Dans le monde musulman, on s'aperçoit qu'elle ne se détermine pas à l'époque dans un vocabulaire qui serait un vocabulaire laïque mais dans un vocabulary qui serait beaucoup plus celui de la citoyenneté. Au début du 20e siècle, ce développement de la", "Avec d'autres sociétés, mais d'une comparaison en particulier avec le statut qui est fait aux hommes et aux femmes dans la société à laquelle appartiennent ces femmes." ]
amina_wadud/Amina Wadud à l_EHESS _2_4_ - CALEM conference_ Pa__FyVRlHpJqk&pp=ygURQW1pbmEgV2FkdWQgaXNsYW3SBwkJvQCDtaTen9Q%3D_1743319411.opus	[ "Les questions de ce premier mouvement de femmes, on les retrouve au point de départ des trois approches qui vont être discutées maintenant. C'est-à-dire qu'elles ne sont pas encore distinguées à ce moment-là et qu'elle répondent toutes à partir de cette question de la citoyenneté et de l'identité aux questions « Qui suis-je? » ou « Vais-je? » et « Pourquoi? ». Mais elles sont toutes confrontées", "toutes confrontées à une question commune qui est en quelque sorte le noyau dur, qui est de savoir dans quelle mesure l'islam poserait-il une inégalité entre les femmes et les hommes.", "This is something that happened here in Europe, which were two terrible world wars. Now the World Wars showed us that we were capable as human beings of doing horrible things to other human beings irrespective of our shared humanity and as a consequence of this", "And the United Nations has before itself and had before itself an expressed interest in establishing a notion of universal human rights. In order to have universal human right, you first have to come to some understanding of what it means to be a human being.", "all major world religions, all philosophies grappled with what it means to be a human being. So some people I think are confused that with the establishment of the United Nations, with its explicit self-mandate of articulating universal human rights, that somehow human rights came into being in the middle of the 20th century but rather", "a united effort to be able to think about this in counter-distinction to atrocities that have been perpetuated against other human beings by human beings precipitated the United Nations agenda, but the idea of a human being had already existed. So on one hand there is coordination of an understanding of what it means", "available to one as a human being even if you are at war with that human being or the nation states that represent the origins of that human beings. But, the idea of what it means to be human didn't start there and sometimes this gets to be confused because of course for many parts of the world, many third-world countries Africa, Asia, Latin America, South", "of certain ideas about what it means to be a human being on their ideas about, what it is to be human being developed from their own religions and philosophies. And this is still being contested today so one of the things that needs to happen sometimes is to interrogate the origins of the very inspiration to establish universal human rights", "And I think overall, I think it's a good thing. But it is not something that is without contestation and the basis of that contestation is that peoples of the world had an idea of what it means to be a human being but certain ideas were codified in these international documents So I'm going to fast forward from the establishment of the UN", "three major voices much more coherently. In 1995, at the Global Women's Forum on Human Rights, Muslim women from various nation states were present in greater and more noticeable numbers than any of the previous forum. What's interesting is they kind of recognized that they were there so they decided well we should form a caucus,", "Women's Caucus. And all they did was shout at each other, at each one of these meetings. So I stayed away. I went to see the Korean ladies do traditional dance. And the reason why they were at such loggerheads is because there were two major players present at the conference in Beijing. One was the Islamist voice which", "which is connected to the political Islamic movements that hopefully you know about coming into being at the end of the 20th century out of frustration for many reasons with regard to persecution as religiously oriented people and the like. But, at Beijing interestingly enough they were often represented by men who handed", "that spoke about the wisdom behind Islam's position on women. And so, the Islamist voice was very well funded, very well supported, met up face to face with women who were also very well-funded and very well support, who said basically religion must be kept out of the debates", "So there were Muslim women who represented the human rights agenda by saying that religion needs to be kept out. From this point forward, I will refer to these as secular Muslim feminists, keeping in mind that again, there is a variety but the manifestation at Beijing of these two voices, secular Muslim women and Islamist women and men came to a consensus which I found very interesting", "found very interesting. For them, all Muslim women had to make a choice. They either had to choose human rights or choose Islam. Of course the Islamists said it's a no-brainer we choose Islam international human rights is made by the West, it's another form of imperialism, it' s another form colonialism, we don't want to have anything", "said Islam is the problem, we need to keep it out of the debates. In Islam a woman can never be equal and therefore we must go with the international documents like the Convention for the Elimination of all Forms of Discrimination Against Women and the Universal Declaration of Human Rights. That's the only way that we're going to have equality even within our own nation states.", "C'est-à-dire que les différentes sociétés avaient déjà des idées de ce qui constituait un être humain. La spécificité de ce qu'il s'est joué à ce moment là, c'était la coordination d'un ensemble de pays pour essayer de définir ses droits humains. Mais en même temps, ça a pu apparaître comme une imposition non pas tant des droits eux mêmes que de ce que ça veut dire que d'être un être", "Ceci, le point de départ pourrait être 1995 et la conférence de Pékin sur les femmes où les musulmanes se sont regroupés en un caucus avec deux logiques opposées mais également fortement soutenues.", "politique qui s'est développé à la fin du 20e siècle. Et face à cela, il y avait un mouvement de femmes féministes pour qui la religion devait être maintenue à distance. Et en fait, on peut considérer que ces deux mouvements islamistes et féministe se retrouvaient d'accord sur un point c'est qu'il fallait choisir que les femmes musulmanes devaient choisir soit le camp des droits humains, soit le", "Now, I was president in 1995 with an organization that I helped to form called Sisters In Islam from Malaysia. I was living in Malaysia when it was formulated. I'm not from Malaysia, I'm from the United States. But we were really frustrated to be there because although in some ways we felt", "representing a large majority of Muslim women who did not want to choose the either or, either choose Islam or choose human rights. But we didn't really have an established methodology set of objectives and we had not made a coherent application of what this would mean on the ground. And also we encountered a great deal of resistance. The Islamist", "basically said because we were also striving for human rights that we were just like secular feminists, which is one reason why I resisted the term for so long. The secular Muslim feminist said that we would just Islamist because we weren't giving up Islam. So what really came to stake was how we arrived at a challenge to the idea that you must make a choice between Islam and human rights", "that was to actually do an operation of epistemology. Who defines Islam and who defines human rights? And if at the end of the day we actually do have full agency, then we are also the makers of the definitions of Islam and we are makers of", "to actually come up with a coherent articulation of not only what this means, but how you put this into application. So we didn't have the support of international bodies because we were seen as too Islamist. We didn't had the support from the Wahhabi Salafi money because we're seen as secular feminists, but we had heart and we persevered. And I want", "I want to try to clarify what it means to take agency with regard to any definition of any term that you will use or reject. And, to do that, I think probably I will just fast forward to September 11th 2001 because on September 11, 2001 very few Muslim men", "Muslim men in the name of Islam performed an act which pretty much everybody agrees was horrible, putting to the test the notion of Islam itself. Whose Islam were they naming? And the results of that act just in case you are not familiar with it is that my country decided", "Muslim majority countries, Iran and Afghanistan in the name of democracy, human rights, and women's rights. Okay? So it becomes very clear then that if you do not take agency with regard to these grand scale terms, Islam, human", "them, then somebody else will not only be defining them for you and the end result is that they will be defining who you are. Now Muslim women are not raised to think of themselves as full agents of the meaning of Islam. We are taught – and Muslim men are taught too but there was a disadvantage because history", "something clearly codified everywhere that everybody agrees to and a good Muslim, especially a good muslim woman should submit to that. And because in our hearts we did feel a necessary connection between ourselves and the sacred there are a lot of Muslim women who would do absolutely nothing about", "to all of the values and principles that we're always talking about. You don't know how many times in Belgium people reminded me, Muslim women have had their rights in Islam all along. Maybe Islam gave it to us but somehow Muslim men and Muslim cults and Muslim culture and Muslim society and ignorance and the pressure of colonialism took a lot of those rights away from us so maybe it gave it", "of taking agency with regard to how Islam is defined, is something that is an important distinction between what I call Islamic and what many of us call Islamic feminism today. In fact it is an explicit knowledge production project. A project that says that when the Prophet upon him be peace received the Quran as revelation from God", "revelation from God, that that revelation was intended for all humankind and that however that revelation and the prophet's behavior or sunnah and the statements of the prophets, the hadiths. However those things were transmitted to us", "of human agency disproportionately owned by men and a very masculinist perspective of how best to fulfill the objectives of that Islam. So, by going back into our tradition to actually take first-hand stock of the primary sources of Islam which was work I was engaged in before", "and myself, and others to go back and take agency with regard to how those primary sources come into action in our homes, in our families, in communities, in nation states, in the world was and is one of the important distinctions of Islamic feminism from the other two voices. Because the other", "qui a été considéré comme indispensable avec l'islam lui-même.", "Ce mouvement rencontre des résistances à la fois du côté des islamistes pour qui ce discours au fond ne se différencie pas de celui des féministes laïques et symétriquement des résistance du côté les féministe laïque, pour qui au fond ça n'est qu'une variante de l'islamisme.", "essentiel, c'est de savoir qui définit l'islam, qui définît les droits humains. Et donc il se pose une question d'agency, le terme parfois traduit par capacité à agir ou puissance d' Agir ici peut être qu'on pourrait dire simplement de prendre la main et l'exemple qui est choisi ensuite, c''est celui du 11 septembre. Quelques hommes qui ont commis un acte", "une désapprobation presque unanime et qui, de fait, ont semblé contribuer à définir ce qu'était l'islam. Et donc la question était de savoir quel islam nommait-il de la sorte? Ça a eu des conséquences bien réelles puisque les États-Unis ont ensuite envahi deux pays majorité musulmane, l'Afghanistan et l'Irak avec l'idée que c'était d'une part au nom de la démocratie et d'autre part plus particulièrement au nom des droits des femmes.", "Donc, un tel acte a pu contribuer à définir ce qu'était l'islam. Et la question, c'est donc de trouver une manière de retrouver de l'agency, donc de reprendre la main pour définir ceux qui est l'Islam, pour redéfinir ceux que l'Issam et donc pour se définir soi-même pour les femmes, puisque au fond, il ne s'agit pas de laisser d'autres définir", "Ce projet, il peut être décrit comme un projet de production de connaissances. Et en particulier, ça veut dire qu'il faut revenir à une révélation qui sans doute est censée s'adresser à l'ensemble de l'humanité, mais dont les interprétations successives ont reflété une agency, donc une intervention humaine", "Donc, juste parce que quelqu'un dit qu'il fait quelque chose au nom de l'islam ou quelqu'une dit qu''ils font quelque chose en ce qui concerne la démocratie et les droits des femmes, ça ne veut pas dire que vous n'avez pas aussi le pouvoir d'agir.", "not also have the possibility of questioning what do they mean by democracy, what do we mean by Islam, what to they mean about human rights. And so this is where we arrive at the beginning of the 21st century where the possibility", "certain mandate where the status of Muslim women in society is almost unconditionally second class across the board can be challenged using our own understandings both of these major terms but also of the methodology whereby you achieve justice in society.", "in society. If you get a chance, I hope you will look at the website for Musawah.org. It's just called www.musawah.org which is the launching of a movement for equality in Muslim family. At the end of the 20th century when these two voices that were", "Islamic feminism beginning to come into its own more clear agenda, methodology and application. An important caveat to the interpretation of anything that would be applied to living persons,", "or be they Islam in the context of Muslim personal status laws and Muslim family laws. Our Islamic tradition is one in which arriving at laws became early very important within a few hundred years of the Prophet we began the development of Islamic law. Unfortunately with the Islamist movement there was an obscurity", "presented that said, what we want to establish is a nation under Sharia. Sharia cannot be implemented, it cannot be enforced. Shariah is like the grand scheme. It's sort of like the Dao in Daoism. It is the way and if you think about it, the word shariah and the word Shariya come from the same origin. The original meaning", "that leads to water, water being the source of all life. So Sharia is like the divine way. What the Islamist movement is trying to implement is actually called fiqh and fiqhh is the human understanding of the divine Way. Coincidentally much of the fiqhhh especially in terms of Muslim personal status law", "of the nation state and the end of colonialism. Much of the fiqh is irreparably patriarchal, understanding family as operating only as a system of unequal relations with a specific head that had to be the man", "leadership of the man, in many ways I will not even begin to go into. And part of the Musawa movement is to actually examine the origins of those notions and to determine at the same time a clear methodology of establishing a notion of family based on equality", "to have time to tell you all the details of this. That's why I hope you refer to the website, but I will give you a few glimpses. Ibn Qayyum Al-Jawziya said that the goal of Islamic Sharia is the divine system, the divine way. The goal is justice and that if there is injustice then it is not Sharia.", "This is called the Maqasid, the goal of Sharia. What we are working on now in terms of Islamic feminism is clarifying that the notion of justice codified in Islamic family law a thousand years ago, 800 years ago re-inscribed after colonialism and the beginning of the nation state", "that somehow she's a pearl or something, that needs to be protected. I don't know from what. But the idea of justice is not one of reciprocity. The idea of justices is one of protectorate and maybe there were some things you need to be protective from but it is clear that we understand certain things about what it means to be human being today", "today, and that the Quran establishes certain ideas about what it means to be a human being which we can apply today. That establishes each person in a direct relationship with his or her creator as a khalifa, as an agent, a moral agent. So that is what the Quran says a human", "How women's full agency became the subjectivity of men, that is another lecture. But rethinking Muslim family was not the project of either secularist Muslim feminists or Islamists. In fact both of them acquiesced to unequal family relations and secular feminist focused on women's access", "So the public space should be equally accessible to Muslim women in order for there to be equality. But the private space was still very patriarchal and Islam is said, and that is wise because that is how God wanted it. And so we are challenging any laws, be they understood to be Islamic or be they", "that is any customs, that establishes anything other than full humanity for each other. So if families in Islam are understood to be hierarchical there is a reason and I can trace those reasons however from those same sources the idea of establishing family as a relationship between equals", "and it would not only be Islamic, but it would also fulfill the kinds of notions being ascribed under the CEDAW, the Convention for the Elimination of All Forms of Discrimination Against Women. So we're not borrowing from CEDO. We are in fact articulating our own because the root source is actually establishing full agency over the definitions of Islam", "No Islam can be implemented against me unless I have a say in what those conclusions will be. So every Muslim woman is an agent of any law that should be ascribed to her, and she has the chance to speak back. Why? Because of number two. Women's lived reality, okay, their lived reality", "of nation state and citizenship that Muslim women have been living under is not one that has fully recognized her equality before God. So therefore it is under a mandate of understanding this relationship to God, that we are requiring a reform in laws both in terms of the nation-state but also in terms", "that will allow us to fulfill that which is the mandate before God, that we be full agents before God. And that is actually my concluding remark.", "Donc, pour résumer la dernière section de cette intervention. La question donc, c'est lorsqu'on entend des gens qui parlent soit au nom de la démocratie et les droits humains, soit au non de l'islam, de se demander et de leur demander ce qu'ils entendent par là. Autrement dit, de remettre en cause et de remettre en cause en particulier le statut des femmes dans la société implique une méthodologie pour préciser ce que veut dire la justice.", "www.sah.org C'est un site où vous trouverez un certain nombre d'éléments développés" ]
amina_wadud/Amina Wadud à l_EHESS _3_4_ - CALEM conference_ Pa_yi6r6ddojsw&pp=ygURQW1pbmEgV2FkdWQgaXNsYW0%3D_1743317175.opus	[ "Lorsqu'on considère l'importance des lois dans la tradition musulmane et depuis quelques siècles seulement après le prophète, on s'aperçoit que se pose très tôt une question qui est renouvelée par le mouvement islamiste qui contribue à obscurcir ce que signifient ces lois et en particulier autour du terme charia. La charia ça n'est pas ce qu'on peut appliquer parce que au fond c'est un chemin", "Au fond, c'est un chemin. C'est une question de la vie. Et donc que font les islamistes? Donc le terme je suis désolé d'essayer de prononcer en arabe alors que je ne connais pas mais c'était pire. Pire non mais c est pire non, mais voilà, je savais que je le prononçait mal, mais juste suffisamment pour qu on reconnaisse que je", "Ce que font les islamistes, c'est cela. C'est-à-dire de proposer une lecture humaine de ce chemin divin et en particulier une lecture qui est guidée par une logique patriarcale. Donc cette question de méthodologie, on pourrait en prendre plusieurs éléments dont vous trouverez des compléments sur ce site. Mais en particulier il y a une idée qui est très importante, l'idée que dans l'islam le but c'était la justice", "Si le résultat, c'est l'injustice, eh bien ça n'est pas conforme à la charia. Or, toute une tradition met l'accent sur le fait que les femmes doivent être protégées. Dieu sait pourquoi, mais que elle, il y a çan'ta même chose du tout que la définition de la justice parce que cette définition d'un justiciel sous-entend elle implique non seulement l'égalité, mais aussi la réciprocité. Et donc si on veut que les", "Et bien cette question d'agency des femmes se pose. Cette question, elle se pose et le féminisme islamique dont se réclame Amina Wadoud la pose tout particulièrement dans le domaine de la sphère privée et de la famille puisque à certains égards si l'islamisme s'est accommodé d'une sphäre privée très inégale, inégalitaire, patriarcale, le féministe laïque s'es surtout concentré sur la place des femmes dans les sphères privées.", "place des femmes dans l'espace public et donc du coup a peu remis en cause ce rôle des femmes, dans l espace privé. Sécurité plutôt que laïque? J'ai hésité entre séculier et laïc puisque je sais que... Je me rallie. Donc à chaque fois qu'auparavant j'ai dit laïques entendez séculiers.", "Donc, ce qui est important comme principe, c'est de se demander lorsque une loi s'applique à des femmes. Est-ce que les femmes ont leur mot à dire sur cette loi? Et ce deuxième principe, il est fondé sur un second qui est lié à leur expérience historique. C'est qu'en général, l'expérience a montré que lorsqu'elles n'avaient pas leur mot et bien ça ne se traduisait pas par une égalité parfaite entre les sexes. Là, c'st moi qui brode.", "Mais je ne crois pas avoir déformé le propos.", "Si personne n'a compris ce que je dis.", "So I'll just say a couple of things. The first thing is that it seems to me that the term Islamic feminism, we just saw that the terms secular are disputed in its translation but the term Islamic feminism, it seems", "And usually, basically if you say that the phrase that has been used for people who are willing to engage in this conversation. I'm not even mentioning Islamic feminists but I would say people who were willing to sit at a stable and have this conversation would be considered. And this is how I among others have been described. That is all the people who basically are naive and who do not understand what is going on", "you think you're just being open by having this discussion, but in fact you are just a tool in manipulation. It may be obvious, but I just thought that it's worth mentioning this because I think it is one of the contexts under which we operate for this very conversation. That is the question, for example, of how others will talk about what has been said tonight, I think may also be relevant to bear in mind. So my only point", "point of elaboration will not be political or at least not explicitly political. I think the political consequences will appear, but I think I will try to share in your posture which has been epistemological and it seems to me I have basically no knowledge of Islam as may have been obvious", "some interest in how sexual issues have today more and more been defined simultaneously through the confrontation with religions, in general. Not just Islam. And in particular this is true of Christianity. And I have paid some attention to that. In particular I have developed a perverse interest in Vatican theology which accounts for my presence here, I think.", "I think there's an issue today, and not just today but these days of the confrontation between sexuality gender and religion has to do with a fact that the very notion of democracy is defined in large part in sexual terms. As you said when the US went to invade Afghanistan and Iraq one of the justifications was democracy", "the other was women's rights, but in fact the two could easily merge. The idea that in fact of the ultimate test of democracy today is women's right and occasionally again lesbian rights I think has become part and parcel of our discussions. Now it seems to me that this is the historical context under which we operate. That is sexual issues have become the litmus test of", "where much of democratic battles are waged. Now, what I would like to suggest is that it may seem strange that someone who claims to be a sociologist would be discussing having this conversation with someone who's speaking, I think as a theologian, as someone who thinking not in terms of their social sciences. It seems to me that raises question that is common", "theologians and to social scientists, which is the question of truth. The status of truth in democratic societies I think is an issue that both social scientists and theologian are confronted with. That is if there's something like history, and this is I think something you have emphasized in your presentation, if there is something like", "whether it be as theologians or as social scientists and many others as well. That is, if there is something like a history of truth that means that there's always, as you pointed out, human agency in elaborating truth. This is true if we're talking about religion. That what Islam means cannot be completely dissociated historically from the way human beings have invested Islam with certain meanings.", "But this is true also of sociology or anthropology. That is, basically it's not as if sociology or anthology had been completely feminist or open to these discussions from the start. I mean Durkheim is not exactly a feminist. So it seems to me that it's worth bearing in mind that this is not just a problem for religions, it's a problem", "is a common ground. It does not mean that we would come up with the same answers, that's another problem but I think we're all confronted with the fact that truth is not considered as it may have been in the past as something that is given once and for all and so the work of interpretation is something that theologians do but I there's more than that. There's the fact", "of feminist or women theologians is to make visible this work of interpretation. And this isn't a context in which there would be a fundamentalist vision, which leaves out the historical work of interpretations. Now, this is not so bizarre for someone who's not interested in Islam or who's", "that we have in sociology and anthropology. If you think of the debate in France at the time of the Pax, the same-sex status, many people invoked truths that were supposed to be universal, that were suppose to be outside of history, and they were supposed define once and for all what is a couple, what is family etc., etc. And very often it was in the name of anthropology or psychoanalysis not so much actually in the religion very often. So it seems", "So it seems to me that whereas of course I have good reason to believe and I'm paid to believe there's a difference between the work of theologians and that of sociologists and anthropologists, otherwise I wouldn't be here. I think at the same time it is important to see we operate in the same historical context. And that historical context is one in which we cannot abstract what we say from the fact that we're speaking within history and not above history, not outside history. We are all caught within history", "within history. And this, for me, is how I understand the democratic context which is shared by all. It is that truths are not given once and for all and that they're at stake in our battles. And therefore we have agency. And you said that about women. I think it's true of all groups. And I assume that you would agree with that. But it's important, of course, to specify it in the case of women. But its also true within the social sciences.", "is basically how we define what is a legitimate question, or how questions are approached, including by introducing feminist points of view within the social sciences. I mean these are similar battles with different results. I'm afraid that I would not have much to say personally within the Social Sciences of something like Sharia but I think the historical context", "de vos réflexions est très bien notre contexte commun. Je vais dire trois phrases en français, si ça me reste bien.", "si mort par beaucoup et que ça veut dire que ceux qui accepteraient, comme c'est notre cas ce soir ou comme en tout cas, c' est mon cas alors même qu on ne prétend pas être un spécialiste de l'islam d'entrer dans cette discussion peuvent apparaître à beaucoup comme les idiots utiles d'une manipulation. C'est-à-dire au fond d'accréditer dès qu'il n'y aurait pas de problème donc mais je ne vais pas me placer dans ce contexte politique mais essayer de suivre l'exemple qui nous a été donné par Amina Wadud qui était de partir de la question épistémologique même si elle a des conséquences politiques évidentes", "politique évidente. Et cette question épistémologique, c'est me semble-t-il le fait que premièrement nous posons les questions aujourd'hui qui touchent au genre et à la sexualité dans un contexte qui est un contextes où les questions sexuelles sont devenues un test par excellence pour la démocratie, c.-à-d qu'on est constamment sommé de savoir si on est conforme aux exigences démocratiques en matière de sexualité et de genre, premièrement mais deuxièmement aussi il me semble que ce contexte démocratique dans lequel nous opérons", "C'est celui qui est commun aux réflexions des théologiens, en l'occurrence des théologielles et de celles et ceux qui travaillent dans le monde des sciences sociales. Le point commun, c'est le fait que nos métiers respectifs ont à voir avec la vérité et avec la production de la véritée, mais qu'en même temps, dès lors que nous essayons de prendre au sérieux le contexte historique dans lequel nous vivons, eh bien, nous sommes amenés à penser que la production", "On est confronté en théologie à des logiques fondamentalistes qui refusent cette historicisation. Mais dans le monde des sciences sociales, ça n'est pas absent. Par exemple, les controverses sur le Pax ont fait entendre du côté de l'anthropologie, de la sociologie, d'un petit canalisme, des arguments qui prétendaient parler au nom de vérités intemporelles qui échapperaient à l'histoire. Donc, de ce point de vue là, si nous avons un contexte commun au delà de différence de métier, si je puis dire par exemple, le fait que je n'ai rien de particulier d'une point de", "Eh bien, il me semble que ce que nous avons en commun c'est le fait d'être confrontés à cette historicisation de la vérité.", "idea of what feminism is. And therefore, it subjects feminism to only certain aspects of its own experience and articulation and locates it outside of the world of all the world's women. It locates outside of realities of all", "of feminism because we wanted to move it away from its location by only white, middle-class women and have it heterosexual – white, middl class, heterosexual women and had it relocated in your own daughter of France, Simone de Beauvoir who said that feminism is the radical notion that women are human beings.", "beings. But even once you say that, as I tried to imply in my comments before, you then have to interrogate how do we develop the notion of human beings? I've been interested in Islamic ethics and Islamic ethics as a historical intellectual operation was based on the male as the human being and therefore often the female", "pass that development to go back to the Quranic establishment of the notion of the human being as an agent before God. And once you do that, then Islamic feminism is no more an oxymoron than a French muslima. So it's just a case of being willing to accept", "interrogated, but then leaving feminism locked into certain manifestations of itself. And in fact this was one of the reasons well another of the reason why it took me some time to be able to come to peace with the term feminism because I noticed that feminists were willing to interrogate every aspect of the social sciences and medicines and natural sciences", "They left religion as if somehow its articulations and manifestations were in fact what was ordained by the sacred, and not in fact also operations in time or operations in history. All of our history is being characterized by patriarchy. So I would also have to defer to the work that was done", "a lawyer, legal professor named Medhavi Sundar where she says that as a consequence of the enlightenment especially in the context of the public space and these quote unquote movements of democracy although she doesn't use those words. The separation quote-unquote the separation of church and state I'm sorry the separation yeah churches stayed or religion in state I don't want to say Church too problematic", "The separation of religion and state or religion in law gave law the purview of reasoning, which therefore could be adjudicated by people. But religion was hopelessly irrational, could not be subjected to laws and the like. And the consequences were that those same legal systems approved very patriarchal reflections", "religion and that religions then became static within those articulations, that they were no longer alive. So if truth is alive certainly then religion is alive but because of what happened around the time of the Enlightenment when religion was relegated to the personal, the emotional, the irrational and therefore not subject sometimes to the same rules as", "not to grow and not to reflect the diversity of the persons who inhabit those religions. So one of the reasons why I became familiar with her work is because she did research on my theology as well as the organizations like Sisters in Islam that basically said religion is what the people live, we are the people. We are the", "what we make Islam to be. And that this notion, that not only do we make it because we are living it which of course is open for anyone who wants to be able to live it and not just women but because we make as we live it then you cannot subject us to any one interpretation of Islam and then say that that interpretation", "operate purely out of both personal motivations and intellectual theological interests. For me, this was the beginning of turning around the participation in the defining of Islam to also the challenge of certain systems and structures that have been established in the name of Islam which were clearly unequal. It was now made to be much more coherent mandate", "coherent mandate. So those are my comments in general about yours, but there's one other comment that I want to make and that is with regard to psychoanalysis and sexual or gender issues. The idea that the human being and human sexuality or human psychology is separate from human spirituality is another consequence of some of the bifurcated thinking", "consistent with all the world's religions. The idea of the integration of sexuality and spirituality exists within certain religious traditions, and I think we need to consider the possibility that what we have concluded as absolutely an articulation of the mandate of democracy—that is sexual freedoms—when it is mandated without the inclusion", "Partant de l'idée d'un oxymore que constituerait le féminisme islamique, la question qui se pose c'est qu'en fait cet oxymoore il suppose qu'on se place en dehors de l''expérience réelle de la plupart des femmes dans le monde. Justement si on veut repartir de cette idée de femmes qui sont des agents devant Dieu, c' est bien ça qu'il faut reprendre en compte.", "La difficulté qu'a rencontré Amina Wadoud et qui l'a amenée pendant longtemps à être réticente à l'encontre du féminisme, c'est que le féministe justement était prêt à interroger toutes sortes de choses telles que la science mais pas la religion. Et donc cette réconciliation avec le terme de féminismes, eh bien ça passe par là, c-à-d par la prise en compte de la religion, mais ça amène à réfléchir à ce qui s'est passé depuis les Lumières", "renvoyer comme l'autre des Lumières, c'est-à-dire ce qui était du côté de l'irrationalité et non pas du côté", "Dernier point sur la psychanalyse. De fait, l'idée que la sexualité et la spiritualité existeraient sur des planètes séparées, c'est une des choses me semble-t-il que vous remettez en cause, ce qui pourrait nous amener à discuter avec l' idée que si on veut parler de liberté sexuelle, il faut penser aussi à la dimension spirituelle de cette liberté.", "passer la parole, faire tous les trois quelques petits commentaires et questions et ensuite prendre des questions de la salle parce qu'il est déjà à tard. Donc Florence Ludovic. Juste un mot, peut-être pour replacer un petit peu ce qui a été dit dans le contexte des séminaires. Moi, ce que je trouve très intéressant dans cette perspective rapportée par Amina Wadoud, c'est", "c'est que finalement le féminisme islamique paraît être un prétexte à un discours réformiste très contestataire et très inclusif, qui permet de repenser le rapport entre la Houma et les minorités.", "Ça va beaucoup plus loin que les tentatives qu'on peut voir ici et là en France de construire une espèce de firtre des minorités sans finalement le bagage intellectuel et la méthode épistémologique sur lesquelles réfléchissent. Donc ce courant, elle n'en a pas parlé Amina mais elle fait partie du courant de ce qu'ils appellent donc les musulmans inclusifs.", "Je me demandais finalement si le féminisme islamique, ce n'était pas en train de mobiliser une base sociale sur deux gens qui voudraient réfléchir un petit peu plus loin et qui auraient et qui finalement pourraient développer un bagage intellectuel réellement pour donc aborder le texte religieux différemment. Donc la portée d'un discours bien plus large que les seuls droits des femmes dans ce qui m'a même.", "ce qui m'amène à parler de la question des minorités sexuelles, puisque Amina a été assez rapidement interpellée par les gays musulmans, les mouvements d'homosexuels musulman dans le monde arabe et aussi maintenant en Europe. Puisque HM2F, par exemple, je crois développe toute une réflexion justement sur comment adapter cette méthodologie aux droits des gays et lesbiennes musulmas.", "de l'islam parce qu'on a envie de rejeter l'orthodoxie et justement la radicalisation, l' orthodoxie, l internalisation des normes du discours qui se dit radical. Donc oui effectivement ce qu on essaie de construire aujourd'hui en France et en Europe difficilement avec toutes les difficultés que Amina Wadouda très bien décrite pour le féminisme islamique pendant 10 ans", "Que nous sommes en train de vivre aujourd'hui. En France, en ce moment même et depuis un sacré bout de temps simplement pour trouver des interlocuteurs qui ne soient pas dans un extrême ou dans un autre. Donc c'est un discours qui peut-être n'en a pas l'air mais est fondamentalement contestataire inclusif dans le sens où effectivement si on dit que l'islam c'était une religion spiritualité une culture de tolérance etc.", "De tolérance, etc. Alors où est la tolérence quand on exclut 50% de l'humanité parce qu'ils sont des femmes plus 20% parce qu''ils sont homosexuels ou bisexuèles, etc., et ça n'en finit pas? Donc c'est une approche qui est effectivement subversive, subversives parce que ça remet en compte en cause. Je parle trop en anglais à ce moment-là. Pardon. Ça remet", "que l'on présente comme islamique et qui est, à mon sens, qui n'est pas radical au sens du retour aux sources de la religion, de l'esprit de la loi, etc. Donc voilà, c'est une approche qui est celle des gays muslims comme la qualifie très justement Florence,", "Le nom qu'on veut bien lui donner, c'est une approche qui est bien plus radicale et qui se veut bien plus peut-être authentique. Alors espoir fait vivre. Nous ne sommes pas là pour convaincre qui que ce soit. C'est ce qu'ont dit tout à l'heure avec Amina. Il y aura toujours des gens pour contester les contestataires etc. Mais l'essentiel, c''est d'être somewhere in the map.", "qui vivent ça dans leur chair, dans leur quotidien depuis qu'ils sont nés parce qu'elles sont femmes, parce qu elles sont lesbiennes, parce que elles sont homosexuelles et les doubles, les tris de discrimination. On peut en rajouter séropositif noir arabe etc. De leur offrir juste la possibilité c'est ce que la plupart des gens à qui nous avons affaire et à qui s'adresse le discours demande simplement la possibilités d'exister sans avoir à vivre une dissonance cognitive comme on dirait en psychologie c'était dire une schizophrénie", "c'est-à-dire une schizophrénie au quotidien, d'avoir à choisir entre sa sexualité, sa spiritualité, son corps et sa tête alors que tout ça bien évidemment fait partie d'une approche qui doit être holistique, qui doit prendre en compte l'ensemble des caractéristiques de l'être humain.", "Je vais mettre à la parole pour que vous puissiez poser des questions. Donc effectivement, ça a été rappelé d'abord par Amina, la question, et là encore on le voit avec le militantisme maintenant des gay-muslims, c'est la question qui se saisit de cette norme religieuse et qu'est-ce qu'on en fait? Et donc au-delà il y a quand même la question...", "de la diffusion, de l'appropriation. Qui s'approprie ces textes? Parce que quand on parle d'un mouvement qui était un mouvement intellectuel, il y a bien la question, 20 ans plus tard... On parle d''un phénomène qui certes apparaît encore à Noximor en France mais qui a quand même vingt ans. Donc on est sur un phénomènes qui est advenu, qui existe dans lequel on peut voir des différences, des courants etc. Donc se pose la question de qui se saisit de cette norme et là je vais revenir un petit peu", "à deux questions. D'abord la question de l'islam politique, donc si ceux qui parlent du féminisme islamique sont des idiots utiles, ceux qui vont essayer de dire qu'est-ce que le politique fait ou ne fait pas du féministe islamiste sont des super idiots utile. Donc je me pose là dedans avec cette idée non mais de voir 20 ans plus tard en fait", "qui est en fait effectivement une ressource très importante pour différents types de militantisme, etc. Et c'est vrai qu'il y a dans ce deuxième âge du féminisme islamique un peu deux phénomènes, à la fois un mouvement transnational global, deux théologiennes, deux groupes militants qui tendent à diffuser cette autorité féminine. Comment on la diffuse? Comment elle vient à toucher toutes les sociétés? Mais il faut dire quand même ici que des mouvements", "Les mouvements très importants, très intéressants comme Moussaoua sont aussi par certains aujourd'hui critiqués parce qu'ils sont globaux, transnationaux etc. Et que de l'intérieur des pays on a parfois l'impression aussi qu'il pourrait être imposé et la question de l''intérieur des Pays qui se saisit de cette question? Il y a des mouvements sociaux qui s'en saisissent. Par rapport à l'islam politique j'aimerais quand même dire que finalement historiquement c'est aussi parce que l'Islam politique", "du religieux et l'a enlevé quelque part aux autorités, au Zulema qui avait le monopole de ces questions religieuses et l''a individualisé c'est à dire que des gens se sont saisis de ça et qu'ils ont pluraliser l'autorité religieuse qu'après dans un second temps. C'est-à-dire que l'Islam politique c'était aussi une forme d'individualisation et de démocratisation du rapport au religieux. C''est aussi ça après avec des lectures fondamentalistes ou pas mais c'etait aussi ça donc ensuite les femmes sont arrivées je pense enfin les féministes elles ne sont peut être", "enfin les féministes, elles ne sont peut-être pas arrivées à cause de ça. Mais en tout cas, on était dans un processus d'individualisation, pluralisation de l'autorité religieuse qui aussi a permis l'émergence de ce type de mouvement. Et je reviens là maintenant un petit peu à la question démocratique. C'est-à-dire... Bon, toujours sur l'islam politique, on peut se demander ce qu'ils en font aujourd'hui et on dit toujours l'Islam politique en gros calais. On peut aujourd'heure se poser la question", "de l'influence du féminisme islamique sur l'islam politique à certains endroits. Si on voit quelqu'un comme Tarek Ramadan, en France, on va vous dire « Ah oui, c'est lui qui a inventé le féminismes islamiques ». Il n'a rien inventé du tout. Non mais il y a des gens qui disent ça, je veux dire, je l'ai entendu, il n'y a absolument rien inventer du tout et par contre beaucoup de gens ont dit ça. Oui, oui. C'est-à-dire que vous vous rendez compte, ça ne peut être qu'un projet fondamentaliste puisque Tarec Ramadan etc... Alors qu'en fait, on se rend compte bien que ce discours est devenu porteur", "porteur pour certaines personnes au sein de l'islam politique. Et le fait que le féminisme islamique soit devenu un discours porteur montre bien l'utilité qu'il a, c'est-à-dire que l'Islam politique ça lui a permis de faire un passage entre les classiques droits de la femme en Islam etc. à quelque chose de plus moderne, de plus intéressant, de", "influencés comme ils sont influencées et qu'on est un peu à une croisée des chemins. C'est-à-dire qu'avec un islam politique qui s'est aussi pluralisé, qui a différents courants et qui se retrouve à une croisée des chemines, c'est ce qu'ont voit tout à fait aujourd'hui, ce qu on va voir d'ailleurs aujourd'hu suite aux révolutions arabes. Cet Islam politique où va t il se situer? Et là on peut dire que sur ce point le travail intellectuel du qui a été fait par", "C'est aussi une ressource pour les femmes face à, finalement, le résultat des élections dans un certain nombre d'endroits. Et on va continuer à avoir des influences réciproques. Donc je ne suis pas du tout en train de défendre l'islam politique. Ce n'est pas ça mon propos. Je me situe comme une historienne. Mais c'est simplement de voir que le féminisme islamique a été une troisième voie, effectivement.", "qu'il était dans les années 70-80, voire début 90. Et donc on est dans un autre type de processus. Je pense qu'on va passer la parole pour des questions. Non mais peut être on prend quelques questions. Oui ou si vous avez..." ]
amina_wadud/Amina Wadud à l_EHESS _4_4_ - CALEM conference_ Pa_M7L7RpGrs5w&pp=ygURQW1pbmEgV2FkdWQgaXNsYW0%3D_1748556482.opus	[ "Yes, there are just a few points I'd like to respond to. I think that Islamic reform is a knowledge project of which Islamic feminism is one aspect of it because for there to be reformism in my mind you must actually interrogate the sacred source", "the sacred sources and the presumptions that stem from them, in the systems that have been developed from those presumptions as they have been understood. I distinguish this from what I call liberal Islam or liberal Islamic methodology which is located in our present and don't see a trajectory from Islamic primary sources to certain ideas", "ideas that we may have in agreement about freedom, about democracy, about equal participation and equal rights before the law. But to be reform methodology it has to do a similar project that Islamic feminism is doing which is to interrogate the entire system structurally throughout so I want", "recognition that Islamic feminism is a part of reform methodology, obviously not all of it. And I want to say some things in particular with regard to queer Muslims and this methodology. Once you open up and recognize that our intellectual tradition is open continually", "whereby we consider ourselves applying our sacred sources, once you open up that possibility in very specific ways then you have the foundational basis for establishing new fiqh. And in particular I've been talking with people about a new fi'k of sexuality because", "The sexuality as encoded in medieval fic and reinvigorated after the end of colonialism is a sexuality without equal agency of any partner. In fact, the man is the full agent and the woman is simply a reciprocal. I have a little story, I think I'll tell it anyway. Hard to tell stories when you're doing translation but", "Somebody was talking about the Hanafi Fiqh around the 10th, 12th century. And a woman was actually considered only to be the vagina and therefore have no agency. And so if a mature woman, an adult woman seduced a child who is a legal minor or an insane person who is also a legal", "seduced him, no one would be charged with Xena because Xena can only which is the crime of either adultery or fornication. Because Xena only occur with the agency obviously of the man so even an adult woman seducing a child was not an agent so there would be no Xena and the insane person would not be guilty cause they're not legally culpable. So this mentality where you don't have sexuality", "sexuality of reciprocity or consensual impacts on our ability to even discuss the matter of same-sex relationships because actually there isn't mutual consensus, there isn' t a consensuall. And even the story of Lot and all that how it goes, its minus an intellectualization", "there is no idea of marital rape in Islamic law because once she signs the contract, she doesn't have any right to assert consent or absence of consent. So we need a new fiqh of sexuality not just because of queer Muslims but also because of some of the problems encoded in the heterosexual normativity.", "re-interrogation, the notion that we're the people. We are the Muslims. That we get to be able to think about what is Islam. Then you also have a chance to be to think much more coherently given our current realities about some of the underlying presumptions of sexuality that have been encoded for centuries. And that brings me to the last point I want to make which is something", "how this reformist methodology, including Islamic feminism, how this methodology becomes a part of civil society under the rubric of the democratic nation state. And I don't want to give another lecture so I have to say this as succinctly as possible or refer you, as has been my inspiration, to Abdullahi al-Na'im's work on Islam and the secular state where he distinguishes between", "between the location of the believer as a citizen and the prioritization of anybody's interpretation of religion as the rule of law of the state. Surely, all persons are influenced by their belief systems so no, a Muslim would never participate in civil society or democracy without also bringing", "their full person, their belief in God however it may be. But the difference is that no laws can be codified except by the will of the people meaning all people have a chance to argue against even what your belief is if you want to put your belief into law to be forced by the state. So many", "when they start hearing about secular, they think it means you can't believe and also participate in democracy. Believe all you want but the concluding laws cannot be based on yours or anybody else's interpretation of religion or is of Islam or your love of God which I surely have as the conclusion of the discourse about civil society and the laws under which they will operate so I do recommend you read his work.", "But the return from this with regard to things like the Arab Spring and the Islamist parties, and its relationship to Islamic feminism. The return for this is actually reinterrogating the notion of active people participation in democracy. And democracy is not something out there that when you say it's going to be perfect or fixed but actually democracy is about a process", "by you actually do take the will of the people, including people who are believers. So it's taking away the authority that is often arbitrarily given to one person, one perspective, one gender, one sexuality as having the authority to then adjudicate for everybody within", "democratic procedure. So it is possible then to see the dynamism of both our civil societies and our beliefs, they can still be in dynamic relationship. I'm not sure about some of what I heard about the Islamists...I think", "translation of something, but the... What do I want to say about this? Try to keep it short. The idea that the Islamists are themselves also static, I think we need to get off of in the West. There have been changes from within and there will continue to be changes, and I think", "far on the right and has shifted itself a little bit more towards the center. And stop assuming that just because you put the title Islamist, that it's always going to be one in the same thing and then it's also going to irreconcilable with say democracy. So I just kind of want to drop that in there.", "Donc, premièrement, sur la question d'un féminisme islamique. On peut considérer que d'une part, il se distingue d'inféminisme libéral en ce qu'il s'ancre dans le passé des sources sacrées et d'autre part, on peut considérée qu'ils fait partie d' une logique, d' un méthodologie plus large de réforme et que donc c'est juste un des éléments dans un programme plus vaste.", "plus vaste. Deuxième point qui concernait le lien avec les questions de sexualité, il ne s'agit pas seulement des questions queer même s'il s'agit aussi des questions que puisqu'il est plus généralement droit en matière de sexualités et avec deux exemples qui ont été donnés d'une part des discussions au 12ème 13ème siècle autour du fait que puisque les femmes n'étaient que vagin et qu'elle n'avait pas de déjeuner si une femme séduisait un enfant ou un fou", "un fou, eh bien on ne pouvait pas considérer qu'il y avait adultère ou fornication. De même n'existait pas le viol conjugal puisque la question de l'agency de la femme n'était pas en cause sur l'influence de cette méthodologie réformiste sur la société civile dans les sociétés démocratiques ça demanderait un long développement mais un des éléments les plus importants peut-être en s'appuyant sur les travaux de quelqu'un dont je n'ai pas retenu", "Un élément qui définissait la démocratie. Dernière remarque qui était liée en partie au fait que ma traduction était trop télescopé de la remarque de Stéphanie, mais c'est sur le fait que les islamistes ne sont pas immuables qu'il y a un groupe politique qui change et qui, en particulier, peut se déplacer de la droite bien dure vers le centre.", "Merci infiniment. Est-ce que vous avez des questions?", "that Islamists may be shifting from the far right, possibly towards some kind of center through some kind democratic process. But I am aware that the Muslim feminism you preach is amazingly outrageous. In Afghanistan where I have been working for the past 10 years, I can tell you from experience having attempted to participate in a gender center", "an Afghan American who very much followed your teachings hoped to implement something of the kind, you know sort of thinking in your direction and that was the most outrageous thing she could do and it was extremely dangerous for her to do so. So where does one start? And how do you actually get things changed? Sure there's the democratic process which is a wonderful idea etc., etc. But practically if in a university", "Dans un pays musulman, peut-être que l'Afghanistan est un cas extrême. Vous ne pouvez même pas parler de la féminisme musulmana sans être considéré comme le pire des pires. Que faites-vous? D'où allez-vous d'ici? Merci.", "exemple de l'Afghanistan sur lequel vous travaillez, et la difficulté de faire entendre ces questions et le danger extrême qu'il y a de faire entendu à ces questions. C'est-à-dire comment on fait dans un contexte peut être aussi extrême que celui là? OK, first I want to thank you for your lecture. I'm here. It's a great pleasure to hear you and to have you there.", "short questions. The first one is, would you say that Islamic feminism is a means or a goal? And I ask this from a European perspective because maybe in other contexts it's totally understandable that it's a mean to achieve a certain idea of female rights but from here it can also be perceived as a goal in itself which means it aims at creating and imposing an Islamic", "Islamic or even an Islamist version of female rights. So in, what do you think about this? Is it a means or is it a goal? My second question is the nature of arguments used there if it's a reappropriation of the sacred texts, what is the reaction of the traditional Orthodox patriarchal ulemas because they also have sacred arguments", "arguments. So finally, is it a good way to go forward in these questions? Because they can also say okay I have also sacred arguments so how we get out of there and are you optimistic in the idea that maybe one day the Islamic or the Muslim world can have another paradigm than the religious", "I'm asking you, a Moroccan and for example in the context of Morocco we have our...I was going to say our president. No, our king is also the leader of the religious believers so the only context", "est la religion. Que pensez-vous de cela? Est-ce qu'il y a une façon d'en sortir du contexte religieux et d'avoir un autre mot, quelque chose qui ne peut pas être religieux? Merci.", "Comme un moyen ou comme une fin, puisque ici il est souvent perçu comme une faim qui reviendrait à imposer l'islamisme. Deuxièmement, s'il y a possibilité de réapproprier les sources sacrées? En fait, c'est en confrontation avec d'autres qui font la même chose, qui prétendent parler au nom des sources sacrés et donc comment réagissent ces oulémas et comment peut-on espérer?", "selon les contextes nationaux différents, et par exemple au Maroc où le roi est également chef religieux. Et donc il y a des différences importantes à mettre en lumière.", "but the very instructive approach that you give us to a certain number of concepts like Sharia and a certain approach to Islam that I am really unfamiliar with, and that I would like you to share with us a little bit more if possible. To the extent possible. And I mean, I don't know if it's appropriate to ask for that,", "you converted to Islam. And my question is, what Islam did you convert to? And what was that Islam that you embraced? Because I'm used to a form of Islam where something like Sharia is perceived as tradition and there are such things as trials that are here for the Sharia and such things. So it's very interesting to see that you approach Sharia", "that is akin to the Tao or a divine project. And the second question has to do with your desire to reconciliate Islam and spirituality and sexuality", "where the intuition I have of religion in general is that there's always this sense of, I mean, this will to normalize and define a norm. And say what is right and what is wrong. Which is something that queer movements in general try to fight against so I'm trying to see how", "Next week, inshallah, I'll be going to Afghanistan. And it is not at all necessary for me to even use the word feminism. I have no attachment to that word. I'm interested instead in women's inclusive methodologies, practices, experiences. So just because I give a talk on Islamic feminism doesn't mean that I go to Afghanistan and start talking about Islamic feminism", "hear this word and you can't function in terms of the projects that I've been invited to participate in. So, um...I don't know who it is that's supposed to be doing what it is they think because uh... I have not published a single thing where I identify myself as an Islamic feminist so i don't what they base it on. I have published substantially on things that have to do with gender inclusive readings", "and why this is both necessary and good. And I would hope they would be inspired by that because it applies to including women's voices and experiences no matter where they are in the Muslim world. So, I think that I appreciate your advice because I wasn't going to talk about Islamic feminism but...", "Yes, yes. Right, right. The conclusion that I came to... the reason why it became important for me to accept an invitation to Sydney Australia and write this paper about these three voices is because", "anything identifying myself as an Islamic feminist. In fact, my last written comments were in rejection of the term feminism so I had to really say what was my experience? Literally, what was I going through to come to the transition where I could accept to identify myself as and Islamic feminist and it's because the discourse changed", "the location of feminism as anti-religious or Western and relocating feminism as an epistemology and a methodology. So that is the reality I live, but I have no record of it. This article, I refer to an article I was reviewing before I spoke. This Article I haven't edited yet to be published because I have family situation with my grandson,", "But the conclusion, which I have already articulated elsewhere is we need every methodology that we can get to work on certain issues in the context of Islam and Muslim societies. So working in concert with people who do not wish to use a religious methodology is not a problem for me. And working with people", "interpretation but who establish schools or feeding programs for poor families is not a problem for me. So this discussion to talk about these voices is to say also something else, and which is at the end of the 20th century, at the beginning of the new millennium we are seeing a movement,", "similarly at any other time in Muslim history. So whether they be Islamist women or secular Muslim women, we are seeing a variegated mass of women who are taking agency with regard to these issues and I'm happy to be a part of that even if I have my biases, my limitations", "that in every country, in every community, rich and poor no matter what country women are working on women's issues in the context of Muslims. And everywhere they're working. They work in different ways because there are different constraints and different possibilities but they are working. And anybody who believes that oh well it doesn't happen in Saudi Arabia which I still hear people say", "community. You don't even need massive resources. A woman could be raped, like Muhtar Mai. She could be raped and as a consequence of that in a series of things that she put into place, she is now the founder of girls schools where hundreds of girls are receiving education so we are I guess easy to say we're not victims waiting to be saved anymore by anybody. We are agents", "we missed in Beijing in 1995 was the ability to accept that maybe we don't all approach the issue the same, but we are all approaching the issue. So I feel that what I would be sharing in Afghanistan is not Islamic feminism, but how women must continue to be a part of their own processes", "theology and stuff that I will be sharing to go along with it. And I think, I want to skip just for a second to your question what kind of Islam did I convert to? I was very conservative. My husband was tablighi jama'at and I wore niqab back in 1972 when I became Muslim in the city of Philadelphia. And", "And the establishment of the necessity for thinking through the religion that I have chosen was a part of the continual process of my conversion. So, I'm continually converting every day. What I convert to is Allah. I don't convert to all these other intermediaries in between. So I don' t even convert to myself because I am not the same today as I was yesterday", "be the same tomorrow or I'll be dead. So, um...the idea—I'm gonna answer your other questions—the idea that you've never heard of this idea of Sharia as the way, or the reconciliation between spirituality and sexuality because there is a norm,", "handed to prevent us from taking full agency. All of these ideas have existed in our tradition for a long time. If you read Ibn Arabi, you will come to one of the best articulations of the relationship between sexuality and spirituality including non-normative heterosexuality. So I think everything has already been there but we've been told that Islam comes down as one little notebook", "notebook. If you don't get this notebook, then you don t have Islam and you know what we do? We don't take the notebook and we don't go behind it to check on all of the books that are there so it belongs to us. So it's open. Don't get chased off by the people who when they chase you off, then they continually control what house...and the notebook gets smaller when you run away. It gets smaller and smaller, you know? So just claim", "world, you know, belongs to Allah. So likewise it belongs to us. We have that access. As far as the specific situation in Morocco I guess I was hoping that you would share with us that Morocco is one of the first Muslim majority countries that have instituted equality and Muslim family law under the Muda'a-Wina and was encouraged by", "everybody as a leader, but one of the goals that I have is working on equality in Muslim family and I'm very pleased by the changes that have come about in Morocco in particular. I am absolutely unclear personally what it means to speak outside of the paradigm of religion. I don't know what that means. I'm sorry.", "the reason why I feel that I can do that is because I'm also very clear that it, that is my choice and therefore it's not something I force on someone else. So I don't really know what it means to speak outside of the paradigm of religion. I, I,I don't, I don', I don', I don'.. If you look at the Musawa, if you look", "right, you will see that it is a dedicated conversation and agreement between human rights standards and Islam. In other words they are not one or the other. So there is a convergence and it converts in very specific ways like the movement for", "CEDAW without reservations. Many Muslim countries have ratified or signatories of CEDO, but they hold reservations over Article 14 and ones that talk about equality in the family and stuff. And women who are working on CEDEW without reservation are saying you can't take some of it and leave part of it.", "what Musawah is organized around, is the concert between these two discourses. As I said earlier not human rights or Islam but human rights and Islam equality and Islam and this concert between theses two voices is very important because of the procedural thing I was talking about from Abdullahi Naim in order to implement it into laws", "laws and also to raise consciousness, to impact on society and on attitudes you do have to be able to adjudicate. So if I mean you'll see this if you look at the website, if in your country is a signatory of CEDAW but it practices a law that is in contradiction to it one of the methods that you use in order", "who hold it accountable before the international bodies when you have to do these country reports. We consider all that in line with the objective of equality in Islam, so methodologically it is not either or. It's not like you have have to have Islam or whatever but the whole idea about not having either or is we are not giving up Islam", "equality. We are not giving up equality to have this discourse on Islam, and that as I tried to say is what makes for a difference. And so therefore all of these are our right. We have access to CEDAW. We've access to the Constitution. If in the Constitution it says equal citizenship but there's a difference in law because something in the family law or personal status then we use the Constitution", "So it's a very embracive system that actually takes full citizenship rights, full agency and Islam. You don't have to leave them off. I suggest you look at some of the details in which things have been articulated in order to be able to appreciate that at this point in time nobody can tell us we have to choose. We can embrace it all.", "Thank you. Thank you all. We are obliged to end this conference because it's time to close and so thank you all for coming. Thank You very much Amina, thanks for the discussion and translator." ]
amina_wadud/amina wadud and Black Muslims community_vj1iPk-HARM&pp=ygURQW1pbmEgV2FkdWQgaXNsYW0%3D_1742903237.opus	[ "I have a comment slash question, I guess. You know, when I was listening to the lecture again, I was just thinking about the loss for my community, for Black Muslim communities of you. Like, I've known who you were, like, I followed, I read, right? But there have been people...you're asking us to challenge ourselves. And so I wanted to acknowledge for myself that I feel like", "I'm just thinking, who might we have been as a community in the years since at least since I first met you? If there was a deeper engagement with what they're saying as opposed to a shunning. And I wanted to know if you might just talk about what are the challenges you face being a Black Muslim woman sharing these kinds of ideas. What has that been like for you? Thank you for asking. Especially thank you for", "is one of the aspects of my life that often brings me a certain amount of sadness. And that is that I don't have the opportunities to serve in my particular community as an African-American woman who converted, you know, in the 1970s to serve and that community as much as I did coming up to the 90s it was still invited to things now I'm no longer invited.", "because the experience in Malaysia in 1992 kickstarted my international, I call it consultancy now for legal purposes. Because that happened then, I've been really busy. Not only have I been really bus but I retired from US academia in 2006 so we're talking 15 years and I've be really busy", "busy and I now get to do that which I love the most. And as a consequence, while it does make me sad that you know I'm not as involved with the African-American community as I would like to be, I am really busy." ]
amina_wadud/AMINA WADUD _Arzak Mahardika_210601037__l9aBmUXze38&pp=ygURQW1pbmEgV2FkdWQgaXNsYW0%3D_1742900940.opus	[ "Assalamualaikum warahmatullahi wabarakatuh. Alhamdulillahi rabbil alamin. Wassalatu wassalamu ala ashrafi anbiya wal mursalin. Sayyidina Muhammadin wa ala alihi wa sahbihi ajma'in amma ala'an. Perkenalkan saya Arzak Muharadika, mahasiswa semester 5, Rodi Ilmu Al-Quran dan Tafsir Universitas Islam Negeri Mataram.", "baik teman-teman pada video kali ini kita akan membahas tentang salah satu tokoh intelektual islam yakni Aminawadud gimana Aminowadud ini mempunyai pemikiran yang menimbulkan banyak kontroversi sebelum itu mari sama-sama kita dengarkan bagaimana biografi singkat daripada Aminwadud", "Budak Muslim Arab barbar di Afrika Aminah Wadud memutuskan untuk mengucapkan dua kalimat syahadat Memeluk agama Islam pada tahun 1972 Di tempat ia menganyam pendidikan saat itu Yaitu The University of Transylvania Ia menguapkan dua kali mat syahada pada tahun", "Dan saat itu ia sedang berusia 20 tahun Setelah itu Ia memperoleh gelar Sarjana Di tempat tersebut Pada tahun 1975 Dan secara resmi mengubah namanya Dari Maria Teslim menjadi Amina Wadud pada Tahun 1974 Nama itu mencerminkan Afiliasi agamanya", "Setelah itu, Awinawadud melanjutkan kuliahnya di The University of Michigan dan mendapatkan gelar MA pada tahun 1988 setelah melewati studi kajian-kajian timur.", "Bahasa Arab di tempat yang sama yaitu The University of Michigan Setelah itu Aminah Wadud memiliki keinginan untuk memperdalam bahasa Arabnya Maka dari itu ia melanjutkan kuliah di Universitas Amerika Yang berada di Mesir Dan ia juga memperdalam ilmu Al-Quran dan Tafsir", "Al-Azhar, Cairo, Mesir Sebelum mendapatkan gelar profesornya Aminah Wadud menghabiskan waktu sebagai dosen pengajar di Malaysia dan Libya Wadude menguasai berbagai macam bahasa negara seperti Inggris Arab, Turki Prancis dan Jerman dimana penguasaan bahasanya tersebut membuat", "Mendapatkan banyak tawaran Untuk menjadi dosen tamu di berbagai universitas Di antaranya Harvard University Bahkan pernah di Gajah Mada di Jakarta Dan menjadi konsultan pada saat konferensi PBB Aminah Wadud mempunyai sebuah karya Yaitu Quran and Women Reading the Sacred Text from Woman's Perspective", "Di mana bukunya tersebut banyak dijadikan acuan atau panduan oleh para pegiat hak-hak perempuan Yang mana Aminah Wadud sendiri merupakan seorang aktivis feminisme", "dalam berbagai hal pada bukunya tersebut Aminah Wadud mengarahkan gaya penafsiran dekonstruktif terhadap hukum-hukum Islam yang sudah dikenal luas seperti waris peran perempuan dan termasuk permasalahan yang cukup menimbulkan kontroversi yaitu ia memperbolehkan perembuan sebagai imam", "Pada saat Salat Jum'at Dan Amin Awad sendiri telah melukanya Yaitu pada saat Ia menjadi Imam Salat Jun'at dan laki-laki Sebagai makmum dan perempuan Pada tahun 2005 di New York, Amerika Serikat Dari karyanya yang berjudul Quran and Women Atau Al-Quran Menurut Perempuan", "Aminah Wadud menggunakan kerangka teori yaitu universalitas Al-Quran dan prinsip dasar yang menjamin adanya kestaraan antara manusia di kehidupan dunianya.", "Al-Quran disebabkan oleh kesalahan penerapan penggunaan ayat-ayat yang bersifat khusus untuk konteks ayat yang berasal dari alam syariah.", "Bahawa laki-laki dan perempuan merupakan berasal dari penciptaan yang sama Aminah Walud merumuskan pembacaan teks keagamaan Terutama terkait permasalahan Al-Quran menjadi tiga kategori Yang pertama iaitu metode tradisional", "Aminah Wadud mengatakan bahwa secara eksklusif merupakan hasil dari kaum pria Dalam pandangannya, Aminnah Wadude menyatakan Bahwa penggunaan atau penentuan paradigma awal Yang merupakkan alat penela'ah dan pembahasan Al-Quran Atau interpretasi Qurani", "hambatan-hambatan yang dialami oleh perempuan baik itu ketika ia menjadi seorang individu maupun ketika menjadi se orang anggota dalam masyarakat dimana ia mengatakan bahawa hambatan tersebut berasal dari Al Quran yang ke tiga yaitu metode holistik pada metode ini", "yang mempertimbangkan kembali seluruh metode penafsiran dan mengaitkannya dengan segala permasalahan atau fenomena yang terjadi pada zaman sekarang seperti sosial, ekonomi, politik modern dan terkait dengan permaslahan perempuan Aminah Wadud mengatakan bahwa metode ini merupakan", "secara metode yang lainnya pada dasarnya tujuan utama Aminah Wadud dari karya gendernya ini adalah untuk memberikan pembacaan yang adil bagi kaum perempuan dimana ia melihat perepuan tidak mempunyai peran aktif dalam setiap kegiatan menafsirkan Al-Quran dengan menunjukkan bahwa", "Penafsiran Al-Quran selalu didominasi oleh penafsirannya tradisional yang mana mengupas atau menjelaskan ayat demi ayat secara beruntun tanpa adanya upaya untuk mengumpulkan ayat jenis atau tematik. Berikut adalah salah satu contoh dari penafsyiran Aminah Wadud", "Menekankan pada kata man dan kata ulaika Dimana dua kata tersebut Mengandung makna bahwa Semua itu netral Bukan hanya laki-laki Dan bukan hanya perempuan secara khusus Hal terse but juga Ia sebutkan bahwa Allah memberikan ganjaran", "Tidak didasarkan pada kekayaan, tidak didasarkan pada jenis kelamin. Akan tetapi semua ganjaran yang Allah berikan berdasarkan pada perbuatan apa yang telah kita lakukan. Sebagaimana firman Allah dalam Al-Quran Surah Al-Hujurat Ayat 13", "Di sisi Tuhanmu ialah yang paling bertakwa di antara kamu Ayat ini menjelaskan bahawa Jenjang atau standar kemuliaan seorang Bukan terkait dengan jenis kelamin Ataupun yang lainnya Tetapi hal tersebut berdasarkan ketakuan kita kepada Allah SWT", "Tidak begitu saja ayat ini juga menjelaskan ayat sebelumnya, yakni terdapat larangan untuk saling menggunjing, mengolok-ngolok dan saling mencari kesalahan antara satu dengan yang lainnya. Oleh karena itu kita sebagai hamba Allah tidak ada alasan bagi kaum laki-laki untuk mencuri kesalahanku perempuan", "Dan begitu juga sebaliknya, kaum perempuan tidak mempunyai alasan untuk mencari kesalahan dari kaum laki-laki. Sekian mungkin hanya ini yang dapat saya sampaikan. Mohon maaf atas segala kekurangan. Assalamualaikum warahmatullahi wabarakatuh." ]
amina_wadud/amina wadud at Raise Your Gaze_ Islamic Feminism_s__VAgENyj4r4&pp=ygURQW1pbmEgV2FkdWQgaXNsYW0%3D_1742947143.opus	[ "I begin as I always began in the name of Allah whose grace I seek in this and all other matters. You will notice that I'm going to give this talk without any notes, and that's because in the last five or six years I've had several opportunities to talk about Islamic feminism. And after a while", "And after a while, there's only certain number of points that you need to hit. And so for this talk I'm going to give you a little bit of personal location which I try to do for everything and because I am going to be personally located in the other three components of the talk some of that personal location will come in again somewhat anecdotally.", "you know, what is now considered to be Islamic feminism. To contextualize it in global movements and particularly in the context of reform Islam. And I'm going to talk about methodology because trying to understand this sort of distinctive component of feminism or this distinctive component", "actually talk about some of the utility of it, that is some of examples of how its being put to use. And what I'm hoping you will do for me is during questions and answers anything that I kind of skirted over too quickly that seemed a little bit provocative or in some way challenging or just interesting let me know and I can elaborate further when we come to the Q&A.", "this as a cisgendered female, I have not vetted myself for every single word about whether or not I am equally inclusive in terms of other locations from the LGBTQI community. And that is also I think contextually significant because working for what we used to call gender reform was primarily within the context of heteronormativity and", "in terms of their sexual identities and gender locations was not yet a part of it, even though that's where I am trying to be located. It means that sometimes when I hark back to some of the things that we experienced as we were going along there are questions that can be asked about the extent to which it is completely inclusive. And I think that's important. I think it's important for me to let you know that I may slip into certain presumptions", "which the gender movement was shaped but that is not where it is finished so I'm asking you to call me to task on it during the Q&A for anything that seems to be especially, I don't think it's going to be something that would be offensive but just the presumption of heteronormativity is in fact a form of exclusion. So I actually identify as an Islamic feminist and", "for even a full decade. So I am aware of transformation, at least in my case why I felt that I could make the transformation and why in fact I resisted the title of feminist up until 2009. And it's funny because I actually have the moment almost in which I sort of came out as a feminist which was the launching of the Musawa movement and I'll talk about that a little bit", "term is because of what we now know as intersectionality and that the way the feminist movement had been shaped globally, especially when you come from the global north. So anywhere Europe, UK, North America is that it addressed the needs of those who were first able to articulate it. And so there was certain class race and religious orientations", "of me when the time came for me to think about it. So in fact, I resisted the term and if you look at my writings up until 2006, I actually argue against the application of the term so I think it's kind of a fun thing to keep growing, to keep learning, to challenging yourself and so this is all about sort of meeting the challenge and how I came to the point where I could be comfortable in it after so much resistance.", "So my first teaching position was at the International Islamic University in Malaysia. And I'm not saying that the experience of the university was necessarily exemplary of anything that I want to promote, but two things happened there that I think is important and one is that that is when I came outside or maybe I should say from behind the desk of academia", "of my career and that activism now has shaped everything that I do. I cannot do something just for the theory in a theology alone which as a nerd, I particularly love but I have to think about its potential impact and that's sometimes crippling because for example now I'm doing research on LBGTQI and human dignity in Islamic classical resources and every time I read something I think well how can I implement this", "that you know punished by death so I'm, you know and so it's both a good thing and a bad thing but because for me it indicated my first ever experience working in the collective towards certain concrete changes both at the level of theory and at the application. It was extremely important to me and also it was not unplanned. It", "the organization Sisters in Islam with, there were eight of us. They're all friends of mine now and they are still engaged in this work so when you look back 25-30 years and you have that kind of history it's actually a very lovely thing because we do keep moving, we do keeping facing the challenges but at the same time it has not led to the kinds of power seeking that can come when you achieve a certain modicum of success", "So while I had the university relationship, I also had the public relationship as again was important for shaping my movement forward. But at the University, I actually proposed to do a research on what I called towards pro-faith feminism. So it lets you know that even 30 years ago, I think I was interested to move forward but I can't say that I achieved it by the time I left Malaysia which was in 1992", "Three years later, the Beijing conference happened. Now we are all in either the light or shadow of the United Nations depending on how you want to look at it and we're all in the light of the shadow because the United Nation proposed at least in theory to address what is the understanding universally of human rights", "occurred within it is that people challenged whether or not the notion of human was inclusive of certain particularities. So by 1979, when the Committee for the Elimination of All Forms of Discrimination Against Women, OCEDO, was launched, it was already clear that even within the United Nations attempt to be able", "being, the human being had been shaped by a certain patriarchal privileging and we still have this problem. So you can't talk about human rights unless you also talk about what it means to be human. And for me in the research that I do in terms of looking at the aspect of human dignity in all my work, it is really clear that the shaping of the Islamic discourse", "even though it wasn't under that title. That title became more vogue in the middle part of the 20th century, you know with the launching of the UN. We didn't necessarily call it human rights although those words do exist so we do have the notion but these conversations sort of all came together and", "tendency to ascribe full humanity to men was rampant and this meant that women had to either compare to or always be left deviant towards what was the full human being. And for a long time we reacted to this, we are constantly trying to you know have us sort of be tagged on and included when people give examples for example about women who fought in wars along with", "I think, well that's just a horrible human example period. Why would we want to even apply it to women? But because the rubric of understanding what makes you fully human was based on the male person and by the way if you want examples of this do ask me during question-and-answers if they don't come up anyway while we're always comparing ourselves to that rubric in a way we will never be fully human so when we talk about things like gender equality", "neutral enough that it doesn't matter you can achieve this kind of equality no matter what gender, or with gender orientation but actually in the movement towards CEDAW, the consideration specifically of the ways in which women are disenfranchised by entire systemic locations within not only laws and policies but also", "the ways in which the primary intellectual legacy was shaped, was not inclusive. It did not have that notion of what we call Musawa. It had a notion of male superiority. Women had a location in this society. Women and had a locations in religion. Women has a location on cultures but her relationship was always going to be relative to where the man would sit and the men had the full mobility to go anywhere.", "words, again he was fully human and she was a relative human being. So for me in the research that I did starting with you notice the title of my first book is Quran and Woman. I really was trying to highlight the necessity of being able to put the focus on women and to have that focus become a central component of how it is that we even analyze text", "to its tradition, taking the opportunity to step back and in some ways using the same methodologies that were used for Quranic analysis throughout the history of the discourse. And showing even there where the need to be able to be explicitly inclusive with regard to gender was a necessary component of fulfilling the mandate of the revelation itself which is guidance. You can't guide human beings by only guiding half", "path. Okay? So when the Beijing conference came in 1995, it followed a meeting in Nairobi in 1985 but the one in Beijing in 1995 had the most visible presence of Muslim women ever and also since. And it was noticeable. It was also noticeable amongst us who were there. I came with Sisters In Islam", "and we did some programs. And the focus on Islam was highlighted at that conference by two dominant voices that would shape the discourse for the next 20 years, and the names that I give to them are the names over time have worked to be able to you know be I think good identifying characteristics but again they can", "Now all of these words need to be unpacked, but for a moment I want you to kind of go with me on it because their proposal was we will defer to the construction of these international documents for the achievement of full human dignity for all women including Muslim women. Okay so again I'm going to make the conversation come back to Muslim women", "There are obviously questions in terms of, you know, other religions or people without religion etc. So in order for them to challenge especially policies and laws and cultures that restricted women's human rights in their understanding of it they needed to remove religion from the discourse and they particularly needed to", "Islam and human rights. And this was the location of feminism, you cannot have both Islam and feminism so it's sort of an oxymoron to put the two things together and they agreed with that and that was their location now as critical as I am of this from that pro-faith trajectory that I had you must understand that again we're looking years past and there has been some utility there which again if you need further elaboration ask me about it during the questions", "The other dominant voice that was there, was funded and supported by the almighty oil dollars. So the Wahhabi Salafi position because at that time the rise and strengthening of what we call political Islam was already in play. And the impact of political Islam on women is not all bad although I say that again because I'm looking back over history", "And in fact, I think about Dr. Ziba Mir Hussaini's statement that Islamic feminism is the unwanted child of political Islam because political Islam brought the debates to how we adjudicate what is this sort of umatic, you know, the ummah impulse of Islam under the rubric of the nation state and then how does the nation", "How does a nation state identify and locate itself within these international initiatives, and within these programs with regard to human rights? And that was actually the main thing that happened with regard political Islam that was beneficial in terms of the development of Islamic feminism. But they determined that we didn't need anything that came from the West, and we didn'y need anything", "when the architects were the same colonizing forces that had come and invaded our countries. So we have a precedent in our own tradition as Muslims, and we only need Islam, and of course we only needed the true Islam. And so they put... In fact I just moved into a new house and so I had to unpack and repack my library,", "position on women. And they were also adamant that you cannot have both Islam and human rights, so I found this agreement between the opposing forces to be an important meeting point of really how it is that the base began to move. But in 1995 when we were there even though we had already been working since 1989 with Sisters,", "because we were determined to challenge the manifestations of gender limitations within the Islamic discourse and obviously within Islamic public policy, particularly with regard to personal status laws. And yet we were not leaving Islam out of the debate. And so we were stuck between these two positions.", "attempt because of the presence of so many Muslim women from all over the world, there was an attempt to have meetings to bring those parties together. Because we were on somebody else's ticket to get there but then we had a chance to network. So we did. We tried to have meeting every night and they ended up into shouting sessions. Because these two sides could not figure out a way to be able to adjudicate over that block. You cannot have both Islam", "And so they just sort of settled back into their positions. And even though we did not feel aligned with one side or the other in any complete way, from that point on especially in terms of being able to get funding to support our work, we were characterized by each party as being a member of the other party. We were considered to be secular feminists because we challenged the theoretical location of the Islamic discourse over what it means to be a human being", "So any challenge was taken to be, you know, therefore you're against Islam. You know this they still do this now but you know people like me who was in hijab and people who You know aligned themselves with their identity as Muslim and did not want to leave out Islam from the discourse Were considered by the secular feminists to all be Islamist so we were all political islamic And and you know it's interesting for me because I think that I've always been a sort of on a radical edge", "but sometimes I would go to places to speak with, this was before my name recognition and people would not want to sit with me because they'd say that's hijabi woman and she's going to do this and she is going to be that. And then I got up to speak and the exact same people would then want to come and engage me. And always thought that was very interesting and that's because we were still fractured and the fragments had not yet figured out ways in which they could complement each other and we can go forward. So that was the beginning for me of understanding", "were two sides, but the most important thing is that led to what would become necessary in order to articulate some type of relationship between the two. And that is as I always say that in every conversation people are galvanized behind the meanings of certain words, but they don't always make those meanings obvious instead they take it for granted so when", "but they don't often say what it is or they say something which is outrageous. Islam is terrorism, right? We've heard that a lot in the last 10-15 years and when they say it you understand that every conversation that they have is going to be filled in by this meaning that they're carrying with them But when they're in a conversation with someone else who has a different meaning They will be arguing because they haven't really laid the ground rules about you know What is exactly the parameters of this term and in the discourse", "In the discourse that occurred in Beijing in 1995, the idea that you could not have both Islam and feminism or you couldn't have both Islamic human rights spent more time interrogating the meaning of the word feminism and the word human rights than they did with the other element which is Islam. Who defines it? And whose definition has the power and authority to be put into implementation rather this", "and your household or your community, or the state. And whenever a single definition becomes encoded in the laws it means it will close out other definitions. And so we worked a lot since 1995 to take more agency with regard to how Islam is defined,", "to be excluded and on what basis. The idea that we would interrogate Islam as much as we would interogate the terms human rights and feminism was a part of the conversation which was in fact unique, it was unprecedented for people who had been marginalized within Muslim context to then challenge how Islam was being used against them. Who had the power", "consequences on their identification with Islam when they would say, you're inspired by the West so therefore you can't do this thing. That's outside of Islam etc., etc. So we were in fact being closed off from an essential part of our identity because we kept deferring to or reacting to definitions of Islam that we had not ourselves been a part of constructing. But if you think about it actually all religions are human constructs", "human constructs. Even when those religions, and again in my definition of religion you can't have a religion without some orientation towards what is sacred, what is ultimate, what it's holy, what its capital O other, the non-ordinary. There has to be some element that transcendent so even when religions have reference to or direct themselves with regard", "Everything that they do after that, they construct. And so one of the fun things about in terms of my... Because when I came to Malaysia in 1989, I came with all of the research that I had done that became the book Quran and Woman which is now 25 years old but I had not understood how important it was to think about what would be the method", "what is religion and our notion of what Islam until I had this encounter with ideas about public policy and about sort of living cultures. And this is what happens when you come from a minority context, and also in my case, a Muslim by choice. So from then on it was much more important to always lay the foundation of where you would go in the conversation by stating what was your claim", "And once the definition of Islam was interrogated equally with the definitions of things like human rights and feminism, it was possible to see why it was that these two sides at the Beijing conference could say the same thing. You cannot have both Islam and human rights, and yet still not see why they were in cooperation.", "resumed only a patriarchal interpretation of what is the meaning of the word Islam. And in fact, all of us did and often in the work that's being done now in terms of alternative articulations how to be Muslim like the inclusive mosque initiative there is still sometimes a tendency to defer back to you know what is a real mosque or you know a proper aid", "the references are always back to the old patriarchal models. And in terms of political, the political Islamic location again those expressions are not singular there is a wide diversity but there is tendency to reinscribe unnecessary hegemonic relationship between the male and female and that there's no other way to operate in Islam unless you have that because", "had operated for so long in so many different contexts. But actually, and this is about the methodology, actually if we look at the components of the discourse even throughout all of the Islamic intellectual legacy, we can actually determine to what extent it is that while we refer", "as a divine source, revealed to the prophet upon him be peace who also in terms of Islam and Hadith become like a divine resource. In order to use those sources to actually construct laws and to actually shape culture humans intervene. And this is actually a beautiful thing it's not a bad thing. It's only a bad when someone interventions becomes asserted", "or the rule of a household without the possibility of negotiating new parameters to what is allowed in that definition. So one of the main tasks before us when we left Beijing in 1995 was to make our presence as the middle group known, to make it known that it is possible", "with regard to what is Islam, how it's adjudicated, how its used in the public space, how would be used in discourse. To challenge that, to show the elements of its construction heretofore and then to be a part of constructing new knowledge that is new understandings of Islam by actually being apart of making those constructions. So we had to take on Islam as our own", "show the ways in which we observe that it had been constructed in the past and to go willingly into making new constructions for the future. And then obviously, we also had to take on the human rights discourse and the feminist discourse for the ways they were implicated in excluding the inclusion of our own definitions in the way in which Islam is adjudicated. Now this last element I found to be interesting", "15 years because actually the international bodies like the United Nations, you know, the World Bank and all of these bodies they operate with an understanding of Islam that they have inherited from the most conservative and patriarchal representations of Islam. That is assigned by the state and They say, you it's not our right to interfere with how", "you know, a person or group or country wants to express itself religiously. So they become complicit in locking in this patriarchal definition and making it even more difficult to be able to challenge some of the consequences of those particular sort of patriarchal definitions. So we've had our work cut out for us because", "for the inclusion of new understandings of what is Islam. And I also find it kind of funny because actually if you look at, you know, Islam's 14 centuries there have always been expansions and contractions in the way in which the discourse has gone over many things so there's never... It's not really static but we were really heels down set to keep the gender binary and hegemony in place", "in place. So it was much more difficult to dismantle the location of male privileging and patriarchal deference in the conversation, but that's exactly what becomes the strength of the methodology for Islamic feminism. And that is that we make this path as we walk it. And so we don't have to get permission", "there's not opposition obviously but when we stop needing to take permission you know from the bearded mullahs and ayatollahs and maulanas and ulema, when we stopped needing to make permission for them and give ourselves permission to do it how do we then adjudicate to have some authority along those lines. So the next phase of the gender work that I was involved in at", "to tackle specific policies in the way in which they had been constructed and then applied. And we would use a return to the primary sources, which is again the legacy of political Islam this is an Islamist's primary objective, we must go back to the source. We would use that methodology with the lens of critical reading for gender location so we didn't just take it for granted instead", "we looked at the elements in the constructions of gender relations and we determined that there was first of all such a variety or differences of opinion, that there were such a variety how do we ever come forward with the idea that there is a single solitary unitary definition of Islam and that somehow you go against it by doing X Y or Z. So we actually find that it is of importance", "in reconstructing Islam that you also revisit Islam's intellectual past and that you take agency with regard to challenging the extent to which it may be inclusive of or not inclusive of all the members of the community. But then, you also have to work at the level of the nation state, which is a reality. And again I'm not advocating necessarily for good", "So that means we have to work within that context because after the end of colonialism, Islamic majority nation states and places that had substantial Muslim minorities like India they codified Muslim personal status laws. And then it becomes a law of the state so the state becomes an instrument that enforces", "Muslim personal status law throughout the centuries. And when you look at, for example, the Quran, what I used to call the marriage of subjugation is taken for granted. It's taken for that women will become appendages to men and that the only way for there to be a marriage is for certain power dynamics", "original conversation about the marriage contract and how it would work was meant to be able to in some way honor this second-class citizen, making the mahr or the dowry go to her as opposed to going to the father. That kind of thing. Even though there were all these measures that were put into place nothing dismantled", "from that contract and within all of the Muslim cultures, and I mean all of them in which this notion of marriage was put into place. And it occurred to us that not only all of pieces in the puzzle of how we challenged the implementation of laws that discriminated against women, which again is the inspiration of Sido,", "even though it was necessary to challenge that, the question becomes how do you construct something else? And in our work from 1995 until the launching of Musawa in 2009 we networked with other women's organizations all over the world. Again Muslim minority context and Muslim majority context. And we found that similar aspects were manifest", "different nation states and there were different emphasis on the different aspects of it. For example, the age of marriage versus the issue of polygamy versus the issues of citizenship whether or not if a woman married say in Jordan a non-Jordanian man could she pass citizenship to her children? Well the answer was no but a Muslim man in Jordan could marry", "would have full citizenship. So that was an important component in the development of the long-term strategies in these debates, and that is when the state becomes the architect of the ways in which certain codes are going to be adjudicated you must challenge the states location usually constitutionally some countries like Saudi Arabia don't have a constitution but you must", "that guarantees equal citizenship to all of its citizens and then denies women actual, equal access with regard to secondary rules like this. And these secondary rules were all linked back to the notions of Muslim personal status law and the way in which Islam allowed them to make exceptions to even what was foundational to the development and sustaining of a nation state.", "in the conversation and we look for ways in which we can network with other women and men across the world who are trying to establish another understanding of marriage. And this is an understanding of marraige that is literally unprecedented within all the 14th centuries of Islam, and that is the marriage of equality. And we call it Musawah. So the launching of Musawwah for me was such", "an amazing turning point because you know when you see yourself as a little person but you see your self as working very hard and passionately towards something sometimes what you're working towards is clear, but sometimes it's a little bit ambiguous. Maybe I'm just looking for what is right and what is true and what does that mean in actual terms? So I was still running sheerly on passion and because in the context of United States we don't have Muslim personal", "Muslim personal status law and actually mercifully we will never have Muslim personal statuess law because Muslims never agree on anything. And we have such a diversity of Muslims in the United States they can never decide whether or not they're going to be Maliki, or Hanafi, or whether they are going to you know sort of Ikhtilaf. They never decide everybody's gonna take issue so it turns out to be a mercy but it also meant that in a way I was sort of displaced", "all my work is predominantly international because the places where the limitations on women's access to the full karama, human dignity that Allah has endowed for every human being. The place where this is most strongly adjudicated is within those places where there is some established understanding of Muslim personal status law and it could be even ad-hoc. It may not be the law of the state but if within the freedoms", "of the state, you have the capacity to be able to denote religious exemptions from certain things. It means that you're still using the instruments of the State in order to implement your understandings of Islam and therefore marriage of subjugation continue to spread even when they moved into places that constitutionally were dedicated to equality between the members. So with the launching of Musawah I literally saw", "saw women and men that I had worked with for the previous 20 years come to this gathering. And all of a sudden, you know people say do you have these kind of moments when you go to Hajj or when you have a really big Eid celebration somewhere in the diaspora? I literally understood that I was part of a global movement with the launching of Musawah but I also", "the challenges within the understandings of certain terminology in a way not to offend my desire primarily to maintain what I call the pro-faith thrust. That somehow, I too had borrowed a notion of Islam that limited me in terms of other forms of identification for myself and at that time,", "and Southeast Asia, because I had also lived in Malaysia, really inspired me. It's a funny place as an African-American to find I'm always so inspired by Southeast Asia. But it really inspired my to understand that the cultural context, in fact this sort of ecological context of where Islam establishes itself has an impact on the extent to which Islam will develop with different branches", "how much flora would be on those branches, you know think about as a tree. And Indonesians have a very comfortable location with being Muslim and not Arab right? So this is not something being against Arab but just to say that I myself when I was embraced by Islam in 1972 the first thing on my agenda was trying to get to the Arabic speaking world because I wanted", "and I saw real Islam, and it was fine from then on. So the idea for the Indonesians was that they have their own culture, and the way they articulated this so unapologetically, so beautiful and so gentle, and at the same time there are more Muslims in Indonesia than there are in all of the Arabic-speaking countries combined. They're only 88% of the population,", "which is the notification of the affirmation of religious diversity. Now, they still haven't gotten to the place where you can identify as not having a religion and there's still a future, they've made some changes but at least it was not encoded on the idea that we're going to be an Islamic state. It is a secular democracy. And being a secular democraty changes how we might feel or respond to the word secular because secularism is not uniform.", "There are places where secularism means you must exclude religion and you must banish any manifestations of those. Okay, you definitely see this in Europe right? But there are places were secularism mean...and I sort of take this from Abdullah al-Na'im's book on Islam and the Secular State It means that human beings are the only ones who can adjudicate the state", "inspired ethically, for example or spiritually by their understanding of Islam you cannot establish Islam at the level of the state without the human component of implementation and affirmation. So in other words the state is a human instrument as well so if religion including the religion of Islam is a construct that it's made my human beings and", "construct that is constructed by human beings. In fact, negotiating the humanness of both of these realities is one of the most important ways forward for us. But you have to... This is just me I'm sorry, the retired university professor. You have to do your research in that you have peel back the layers and look at how the puzzle is put together because from a distance it looks like a solid beautiful portrayal", "it could be a kitty cat but from the distance, it looks like a kittycat. But when you get close, you will see that all of these little pieces of the puzzle are there and looking at what exactly holds the various pieces together in different contexts is one of the things about Musawah that inspires me the most because it is not proposing first of all, it's not an organization It is not proposing that one set of rules fits all or", "the majority context has the same particular priority of concerns but that even though there is a necessity for a variety of approaches that have been honed out of this puzzle in order to address specific situation, that again certain rubrics of understanding were in place that need to also be a part of the challenge of how the puzzle is set forward. Right? So you can look at it sort", "table on which the puzzle is being put together and that also is a construct. And when that construct proposes as it does, and has throughout history, that Islam and Islamic law fundamentally must be for justice, the question about whether or not Muslim women experience justice became a major element in how to move forward.", "what is a principle aspect of the classical discourse about Islam, which is that it's for justice, human dignity and human rights. But we challenge it to the extent to which it has not been equally put into application with you know, the girl and the woman in those societies. And we look at all the elements of that deprivation as a way to be able to address what happens", "necessarily address every country but we liaise with other countries and we do these workshops to prepare people to be able to challenge it within their own context. So the reality is there's a lot of work that's ahead of us, but the capacity to be addressed this work is to accept that not everyone is going to be located at exactly the same place which is what we learned in Beijing 1995", "accept that we will have different locations was not possible for us in 1995. We were still thinking that somehow when we came together, we were going to unify all of Islam and all Muslims, and we were gonna unify them under our vision. And instead, we understand that as far as the main trajectory, the thrust for equality and justice for all, not just Muslims, not jus men is the only standing principle that we have to maintain", "and that after that everything is subject to change, and viable through the possibilities of reform. So we do this in application to specific countries when you know we're invited and we do workshops or sometimes regionally, and then we must learn from the participants how the arguments are being constructed against them so that they have", "reformist Islam and Islamic feminism for their own usage. Today, this is my last thought today we still have people who identify as secular Muslim feminists, people who do not want to engage Islam as a discourse they do not one Islam to be a part of movements forward based that still exist and we work with them and as far as we can work with", "For example, if you're working on violence against women it doesn't matter whether or not you are a believer. You can still work and we can still there. And today there are also people who are adamant that we must work from an Islamic perspective. I am one of those people but when I say we're working from the Islamic perspective I am clear that there is no single definition of Islam and that there are variety of definitions so it's easier for me to embrace the diversity.", "might embrace the Muslimness of people like ISIS, but that doesn't mean I agree with the way in which they assert their Islam and the way it which they violate other peoples rights in the name of Islam. But its not a us-and-them thing anymore. We're all in it together and eventually we will see if we don't understand how to work with someone even when you disagree with that person is a necessary component of how you demonstrate what you say", "yourself. When you say you want full human dignity and acceptance and respect for your particularities, then you must also extend it to other people.\" So for me now Islamic feminism harks back to a definition that Simone de Beauvoir gave and that is feminism is the radical notion that women are human beings. I don't have to compare myself", "I was created by Allah to be fully agent of Allah on this earth. So that has become my way of combining Islam and feminism, and Islamic feminism is an Islamically framed articulation of how it is that we work to establish equality and justice for all including Muslim women. Thank you very much." ]
amina_wadud/Amina Wadud - Bringing women_s voices to sacred te_luyjABV1nYw&pp=ygURQW1pbmEgV2FkdWQgaXNsYW0%3D_1743318772.opus	[ "For some reason, we had no history of women's voices with regard to the meaning of the text. It occurred to me that there may be a possibility that that might make some difference and it turned out that it has. The idea then is that this", "is that the sacred is made known through text, but does not do so only for the sake of men. Sometimes this kind of reality is hidden because, of course, patriarchy has been rather universal. It's not limited to Islam or Judaism or Christianity or communists or black power activists or anything. It seems to be that patriarchy", "you know, this should be the kind of thing that we should talk about a little bit more. This should be to kind of think that we need to generate more discourse about women's reading of the text and women's perspective on the texts and most importantly for the role I was to have after that, women's experiences relative to the meaning of the divine" ]
amina_wadud/Amina Wadud - Challenge and opportunity_uJIpmMu_yTo&pp=ygURQW1pbmEgV2FkdWQgaXNsYW0%3D_1743320881.opus	[ "I just want to say that this invitation represented a bit of a challenge for me. I know that the area that I've had the greatest opportunity to work with is also one of the areas that is one of", "And that there are forces bigger than me, but not as big as God, that would rather I never ever go into a synagogue and talk about that most sensitive subject Islam and gender.", "and at the same time that I could be myself in the confines of a sacred space where the remembrance of God really, really is the point even if sometimes we come in and we're a little forgetful. Thank you very much." ]
amina_wadud/Amina Wadud dan Sister In Islam _ Pembentangan CTU_rIGzyHA-JH8&pp=ygURQW1pbmEgV2FkdWQgaXNsYW3SBwkJvQCDtaTen9Q%3D_1742908598.opus	[ "Assalamualaikum warahmatullahi wabarakatuh. Nama saya Muhammad Dazli bin Muhammad Daruss. Saya akan membentangkan satu tajuk yang bagi saya agak menarik iaitu Aminah Wadud dan Sistem Islam. Kenapa saya agok menarikk? Bagi saya, taju ini agak merarik ialah sebab... nanti saya akan cerita kenapa. Sebelum itu kita perkenal dulu dengan siapakah Aminnah Wadid ini", "Nama wanjud ini sebenarnya nama asal dia adalah Mary Tisley. Dia sebenarnya bukanlah seorang Islam yang dari lahir. Dia convert kepada Islam pada tahun 1972. Sebelum dia memeluk Islam pada 1972, dia merupakan seorang beragama Kristian dan bapunya pula adalah seorang padri.", "Kata merupakan padri metodis lah So Aminah Waduh ni Dia pengelola Islam Dan dia Pada tahun 1992 Yang menarik adalah Aminat Waduk ini Bukanlah orang yang biasa Ataupun orang yang Ada background yang biaya Tapi yang luar biasa Di mana Aminan Wadu ni Dia ada Sajana muda Science Dari Universiti Pennsylvania Di Amerika Syarikat", "Dan dia juga ada jazah kedoktoran dalam bahasa Arab dan pengajar Islam dari University of Michigan. Dia juga ada belajar pengajaran Al-Quran dan tafsir di Universiti Kahirah dan juga falsafah di Universitih Al-Azhar.", "Insan yang bernama Aminah Wadud Dan sepanjang Selepas beliau menamatkan pembelajaran beliau Beliau Menjadi Pembantu profesor Di Universiti Islam Antarabangsa Malaysia UIA Dan Semasa beliau menjadi pembantu pesyarah Beliau ada menerbitkan dua buku Iaitu buku yang pertama adalah Quran and Movement Dan lagi satu ialah buku Inside the Gender Jihad", "Dan buku Quran and Movement ni Buku yang digunakan oleh organisasi yang diberi nama adalah Sistem Islam Okay Bagi kita, background dia memang agak menarik Dengan pemberdikan apa semua kan So jadi Kenapa dia dilabelkan sesat Ataupun terpesong daripada agama", "Di mana lelaki dan perempuan boleh berkahwin walaupun berlainan agama Itu salah satu contohnya Feminism ialah dalam menyokong hak wanita Kerana ideologi feminism diwujudkan apabila mereka menganggapkan bahawa Wanitanya adalah golongan yang ditindas Dan meretak bahawa wanitanya matabatnya rendah", "Konsep feminisme ini dikeluarkan atas dasar untuk mengangkat matabat wanita Tetapi yang menjadi masalahnya adalah apabila Aminah Wadud mengatakan bahawa Wanita juga boleh melakukan apa sahaja lelaki lakukan walaupun dalam benda itu melibatkan agama Contohnya seperti yang pernah menjadi kontroversi ketika dahulu adalah waktu dia menjadi imam solajumat", "Tidak beragama Islam Ada yang beragaman Kristian Hindu Buddha dan sebagainya Mengikuti beliau Menjadikan solat Mengikiti beliau Mendirikan solah So itu menunjukkan Betapa Terpesongnya Pahaman Konsep Ataupun pemikiran Amin Awal tu ni Tapi kenapa puji Begitu Ini kerana Ni disebabkan Aminawal tu Membuat petafsiran Al-Quran Secara literal Dan batil Maksudnya Aminulawal dia tidak Membuat Petafsir", "Pertafsiran Al-Quran secara Literal, maksudnya contoh Saya mengambil ayat Allah ada tangan Contoh Ayat Allah Ada Tangan Tetapi sekiranya kita merujuk dengan pakar agama Ataupun pakar tafsir Al-Kur'an Tangan Allah Bermasuk Kuasa Allah Tetapi bagi mereka yang tak ada ilmu Tetap ini Dan Mereka akan menganggap bahawa Tuhan ada tangannya So itulah yang Bagaimana Aminah Waduh Mengambil pertafsirannya pada Al-Quran", "Itu yang apa yang kita perhubungan dari segi kesesatan Tapi Sebelumnya Kenapa saya kata juga sesat juga Aminah Waduk ni kira sesat Kerana Dia menyokong LGBT Sista Islam pun menyokot LGBT Kerana dalam satu buku je Quran and Women, Aminnah Waduq Menyatakan bahawa manusia ni dilahirkan Tak ada jantina Genderless Maksudnya tak ditentukan Jantina", "Jantina lelaki atau perempuan So maksudnya Jadi maksudnyaa Dia mengatakan bahawa Seorang manusia decide apa boleh Bila dah lahir dia boleh berfikiran waras Dan dia decide Boleh tak jadi lelakih ataupun perepuan Walaupun secara fitrah ni dia dah lahiri sebagai Jantinan asalnya So Mereka menyebut LGBT ni Atas dasar hak kemerdekaan So itu agak bertetanggalah", "Dengan apa yang disyariahkan Ataupun difatuakan oleh majlis agama kita Jadi lagi satu Yang boleh saya kata Agak Menjadi isu besar ialah Mereka Mempersoalkan Hukum Al-Quran dan mereka tidak bersetuju Dengan apakah yang hukumnya terdapat dalam Quran Contoh Salah satu contohnya adalah pemakaian Penutup aurat Pemakaian tulung", "Dalam dalam tidak menyatakan untuk bertudung Tetapi Kebanyakan orang akan bertuduh Sebab itu adalah berita di Malaysia Tetapi mereka menganggapkan Bertudung ini Adalah satu penindasan terhadap kawan wanita Dan menganggar bahawa Wanita ni kalau bertuduk Ibarat mereka dia dikongkong, dikontrol Ataupun dikawal So jadi Ini menunjukkan bahawa Aminah Wadud dan Sistri Islam amatlah tidak", "Untuk membetulkan pemikiran Ataupun mindset Orang di Eropah dan di Barat Kerana budaya di Eropa Dan Barat amatlah Memesalah tafsirkan tentang agama Islam Mereka mengangkat bahawa Agama Islam ni agama yang kolot Agama yang mundur Jadi Dalam penulisannya Aminah Wadud Menyatakan bahawa setiap kali Mereка Setiap hari dia berjumpa dengan orang di barat atau Eropa", "Bahawa agama ni Islam Agama yang menindas kaum Terutama kaum wanita Jadi dalam penulisannya Saya membaca Secara sepitas lalu Bukunya Menengahkan bagaimana Konsepnya wanita itu Dalam Al-Quran Dan bagaimanalah Allah menghargai Kaum wanita ini Tetapi Disebabkan", "Ada benda yang bercanggah dengan fahamannya Dan dia tidak Bercangggah dengan Fahamanya dan lalu benda tu Dia tidak diambil Hanya-hanya diambin potongan ayat Yang mengikut pandangan beliau saja Jadi Sebagai saya agak bagus Untuk buat benda begitu Tetapi agak Menjadi masalah kerana Akan menimbulkan salah fahaman Kerana seperti kita tahu Di Amerika Syarikat, di bahagian Eropa", "Bukanlah negara yang asalnya negara Islam. Ramai fatwa daripada, kebanyakan fatwa banyak mengeluarkan keputusan untuk meng-labelkan Aminah Wadud dan organisasinya iaitu sistem Islam adalah kumpulan ataupun organisasi yang terpesong daripade agama Islam. Dan buku Quran yang ditembelikan oleh Aminat Waduk dijadikan sebagai buku panduan untuk organisasi sistem Islam.", "Sistem Islam Tapi sebenarnya pada dasarnya Sistem Muslim ditubuhkan Untuk Mengangkat Mata-mata wanita Bela bahagian wanita Tetapi disalahgunakan Dan itulah kerana Dikatakan sesat Jadi Apa yang saya boleh katakan Dengan Tajuk ini", "tajuk ni buat pertama sekali ialah kalau kata kita nak belajar ataupun kita nak mengeluarkan satu pendapat, kita perlulah bertanya kepada yang lebih arif. Sebenarnya bagi saya lah untuk belajark agama tidak cukup hanya di universiti sahaja kerana kalau kato untuk bebelanja agam dia lebih tinggi sampai untuk boleh mengeluakan hukum beri pendapat tentang suatu hukuman", "Suatu hukum Untuk belajar di universiti tidak memadai Kerana kalau kata kita Kita punya adab Atau adab kita, kita hanya perlu bergurungan Betul-betul guru yang arif Dan tahal agama ni Bergurung dengan mereka untuk belajarkan Bukan saya tak cakap Yang duduk di universitas ini tak cukup Cuma tidak Memadai. Yang kedua pula Apabila benda baru Ataupun pendapat baru Yang sampai ke kita, haruslah", "Merujuk kepada orang yang lebih pakar Ataupun kepada pihak Yang berkuasa untuk siasat Benda ni betul atau tak betul Sebab sekiranya benda tu Sesad ataupun terpesong Atau bercanggah Dengan agama kita Maka benda itu akan menimbulkan masalah Kepada komuniti kita Kita yang tiga pula Kita sebagai seorang individu Kita perlu", "Mempersiapkan diri kita Bukanlah Maksud saya bersiap Untuk berperang Tapi mempersiapan diri itu Dengan ilmu lah Sebab Kita tak tahu Apakah Ilmu Ataupun fahaman Yang akan muncul lagi Sebab semakin modern Zaman kita Semakin Pelik-pelik lah Semakin pelik lah Fahaman yang dikeluarkan Yang dimana Fahamannya mengikut Harbu, nafsu Dan semua keinginan Mereka sendiri So kita perlu Persiapkankan diri" ]
amina_wadud/Amina Wadud Eid Khutbah_gj5lK8iYXLo&pp=ygURQW1pbmEgV2FkdWQgaXNsYW0%3D_1742945811.opus	[ "ربنا لا تؤخذنا إن نسينا أو أخطأنا ربا ولا تحمل علينا إشرا كما حملته على الذين من قبلنا رابا ولا يتحملنا ما لا طاقة لنا به وعفونا واخفر لنا وارحمنا أنت مولانا فانصحنا", "Oh Allah, our Lord do not take us to task if we forget or make a mistake and do not put upon us that which we have not the capacity to carry. Do not give us a chastisement like what you have given", "on us, forgive us. You are our Lord and help us against those who deny the truth.\" I have in the Quran because on the one hand it is introduced by a statement that says emphatically that Allah does not place upon a soul greater than it can bear and then it is followed by a dua that actually asks that more than we", "We have completed another Ramadan month of fasting, Alhamdulillah. May Allah accept all of our fasts and open for us a pathway to Jannah. We have also experienced in this month I think for our lifetime more tragedies at the hands of Muslims against fellow Muslims than any other Ramadan that I think we can recall. And in this way it was somewhat overwhelming", "In particular because one of the tragedies struck at the intersection between the LBGTQ community, the Muslim community and people of color. I want to say something about what it means when we ask and at the same time we have already been guaranteed that a law would not place upon us more than we can bear. And I want", "on to how when we read the Quran and it says that Allah is closer to us than our juggler vein, and yet these kinds of tragedies not just Orlando, not just Baghdad, not Istanbul, not at the Prophet's Mosque but so many other places that have not been mentioned. When these tragedies occur there are people who in fact are really tried in a way that I think sometimes defies", "not more than they can bear. I think it is in fact somewhat unbearable and I think that it's okay to embrace this but I want to do this in a particular way that talks about sacred space, sacred time and sacred places as well as sacred spaces, sacred places, as well sacred persons. In particular I want", "a space that although humble in origins was built upon the love and continuity of the inner circle community. And you know, inshallah I'd like to look back a quarter of a century from now, that's about 25 years, I probably won't be here to do it but those of you who are younger than me remember this simple origin because", "this place was built that will make it a hallmark for the history of all Muslims. I mean, inshallah, I truly believe that. But also because if Allah is closer to us than our jugular vein in a way we don't need a place, in a away. And yet I have found in my years as a practicing Muslim, I've traveled to over 60 countries,", "I have found that it is in fact necessary to dedicate a space, even in your own private homes, to dedicate the zikr of Allah or mention of Allah will happen recurringly. A space where even in the midst of chaos if you go to sit in that space all the barakah", "for your salah, for your zikr, for you muraqabah, for the moments of stress, for moments of joy to make that space so imbued with the spirit of your own contribution that you may then draw from that space in times of trouble. In times where things threaten us to be beyond what we can bear because I think that understanding", "than our juggler vein, you know that is within the essence of our own very being. There is a law so in a way when you look for a law you should be able to look just inside yourself to find it and yet we are in this dunya, we're in this world, the world is vast and yet if you look out into the universe the world's quite small and as we make our way through it", "find that there are people who are less than generous of heart, who do not have our best means in their hearts. And so we need to remember to come back to that place within our own self where Allah resides but we also need to build up the Barakah in places, in sacred spaces both personal and communal spaces", "with such frequency that it becomes like an aura that surrounds us in that love and that remembrance, and causes us to come back to remembrance when the events of the day can easily cause us to forget. So I really want to remind you that dedicating a space in your homes and in the center is something that is worth investing into because these are difficult times.", "difficult times. We have experienced in different ways the capacity that men have, that humans have to do injustice to other humans. So this Ramadan when the tragedies struck one after another I did find myself sometimes to be overwhelmed but I also found that the task that I set before myself this month which was fasting as a traveler somewhat and", "for most of the month and then I went to Indonesia for a week, and then i came back. And then I came here coincidentally because I didn't want to go to a khutbah that wasn't going to be in English. I didn' know I was going to give the khutba. As you will see I'm doing it a little bit more in the spirit of what has been the initiative of the inclusive mosques around the world. That is a kind of sharing because any one can sit in this place", "We have endeavored with our own struggles for equality and justice to remove even the hegemony of authority that used to reside only in certain people, mostly male, and performing in only one way. Instead we have opened up to anyone who is struggling to experience a law that is closer than the jugular vein", "So it doesn't matter if the khutbah is half Arabic or half English, and it doesn' t matter if it follows any particular formula provided that the sharing is done with sincerity. And when we raise up this level of acceptance of everyone in the community, we have the capacity to be able then spread the community to people who are just initiating their own relationship with Allah and trying to find a place where they will be accepted unconditionally for who they are.", "that used to be the most important thing to preserve Islam. Now we want to preserve the heart, we want preserve the spirit, we remember, we have that zikr be a part of everything that we do. This time for me because sacred times are also important this time is somewhat cyclical because next month in August will mark 22 years since I came here to Cape Town and someone invited me to give a khutbah", "give a khutbah and I had never heard of it even though I embraced the possibility. And then, I went back and tried to hide from it for a little while. I'd never heard about the possibility but I embraced it immediately and now I can look back and see that it has taken root and that people better understand the significance of every believer whether in a male body or female body", "is a part of Allah's dominion. All of this is a parts of the community of believers, all of this something that we embrace and we try to deconstruct the idea that only the bearded man who has absolutely no living connection to the community is the one who gets to speak or that can represent us. We want to embrace people who speak from the heart with the light of the heart even if without all these formulas. Formulas are nice too I know a few", "I know a few of them, but I'm just saying that we really want to remember that we're trying to understand how it is that Allah can be closer to our jugular vein when we are living in a world where such atrocities are happening by Muslims against Muslims, against non-Muslims and the like. So time is important. When we come to fulfill the cycle of the month of Ramadan,", "marked as a special time and we participate in that month if we are not able to fast for a number of different reasons medical and personal. We still participate in the month there is no Muslim who is not fasting, that is if you have a medical exemption you're not the person who's going to invite your neighbor Muslim who", "of the relationships that we have with other people. Everyone will be careful of it, so that marks that time. So some times of the day are very important. Some times of year are very imporant and I think each of us need to find the times of a day where we feel the closeness of Allah the best. I'm a morning person, I'm no good in the evening, some of those long days in the northern hemisphere", "reason why i came to malaysia i can't even fast now that long length anymore but for me i know what times are best for me and i know that at those times i want to be able to then come to that place that i have chosen in order to be", "step that I do and in my own personal behavior. So sacred spaces, sacred times are all important and we need to embrace it conscientiously. But the last thing I want to say is something about sacred persons.", "by calling myself an ally to the LBGTQ community, both Muslim and not Muslim. And yet I think until recently I failed at the duty that I feel that I have some capacity to perform, and that is to actually study the sources on my own. So alhamdulillah opportunities came together and I have been doing that. And particularly for this month of Ramadan", "simultaneous read to the quran in arabic and english because my my arabic is good enough that i can follow but not 100 this is my area and then my english is such that i'm never satisfied with anybody's translation so i have to have the two going on at the same time so it always makes reading through for ramadan an interesting kind of challenge but this year i managed to do it with a certain amount of facility", "I still have one or two more, but the last two Jews you know a lot of anyway. But I really wanted to locate the research that I'm doing on Islamic primary sources in terms of sexual diversity and human dignity to make sure that I relocated it into a field for the Quran as a whole. And some interesting things happened to me this month in terms reading and in terms life unfolding and the tragedies we experienced.", "I know that the first genuine experience that I had with the Quran really had to do with gender and with gender in a kind of binary way. And I wanted to understand for myself whether or not that was locked in, in such a way you just can't get beyond it. And i discovered in my reading this time something very interesting which I'm going", "interesting interplay in the Quran between the idea of pairs. Unfortunately, my English translation was Muhammad Asad and Muhammad Asd is a little bit homophobic if you didn't know let me just tell you that having him as my English source has been very frustrating because I have to double check him and sometimes triple check him because of where he takes a thought and it's clear its following from his own homophobia now but there this", "of interplay between the relationship of pairs in the Quran that defies the idea that the two primary gender are anything but markers. So yes, the Quran does repeat from male and female. We created you for male and femal. You know, we created you from a single, a single soul or being or essence or reality", "created from it, its mate, its pair within this system. And spread from those two countless men and women. But what's interesting is that it's setting up a kind of polar relationship. And sometimes in the Quran, this polar relationship is resolved in its conversation about pairs.", "But what I have understood now is that there is a dynamic between it and that none of us fully fill in one side or the other. Take me, for example. I have a very deep voice. I think most of my voices are about the same caliber, right? Sometimes when I call in America they say yes sir, I will help you sir. And I think probably you want to start by not saying sir just maybe not. So all of us have some aspects of ourselves", "little bit towards the other side. No one is rigidly all of one and all of another, and some people have a much more creative blend. So this is my proposal for the future, and this is what I'm learning from my research. If Allah is residing closer to us than our jugular vein, and if our communities have now presented us with a reality that is manifest with great clarity about sexual diversity", "diversity, that the future understanding of what it means to be a servant of Allah, to have a relationship with Allah is actually going to reside in those people who understand best the fluidity and the ambiguity of any singular location along the gender spectrum. Now I thought about this when I was reading", "actually showed me two places where this had already occurred and one is in Native American traditions, where the people of non-gender binary people were believed to be ones who had a special relationship to the spirits and therefore could communicate. And also in Indonesian culture, the Biso people were also considered to be gender nonconforming and special intermediaries with the divine. So I didn't make it up", "make it up, but at the same time I really feel like if what we are created to do is you know, We did not create humans and the jinn except to worship me. That is what Allah says that our worship now needs to be enhanced by a dimension of the capacity of human beings", "In other words, we're in this human body on this earth. This is our Earth suit and while we only participated in maintaining gender binaries which never worked for anybody anyway because you know like my voice we were always somewhere in between We now have communities of people who embrace their relationship between different genders They do it by making more concrete medical changes", "in terms of being trans, or would they do it either in terms defying these rigid binaries that Muhammad Asad keeps trying to get us to understand in terms whom we love? That we are now embracing this notion as a way to be able to break the human community out of its limited capacity to understand Allah. But if the means for understanding Allah is given to us according to the Quran", "within our own selves that we now have the possibility of being able to go beyond the 10% of the brain that we use in such a way as to be able to embrace greater possibilities. So people who have experienced, in their one body, a defilement of these rigid gender categories have already experienced something about the nature", "Therefore, they will become our guides as far as speaking from their own voice. The voice that Allah is closer to the jugular vein of and if we embrace this possibility as a necessity that is as a way to be able to bring us out of some of the horrible violence that we have seen people who are not themselves limited to one manifestation what it means to be human", "inshallah, to re-embrace the idea that we are in fact one humanity before one Lord. And inshAllah I wish you a.", "I know a girl who is this controversial figure and I had the same perspective of her many years ago. And then after doing this course at TIC, and after kind of having a better knowledge of myself, I was more open to the idea and I came to TIC. I saw...I listened to the khutbah. And what I particularly liked there's a lot of points about the khatab that I feel like she picked up on a lot important things. One of the biggest things for me was this idea", "people have these, they both masculine and feminine binaries within us. And that we have this different kind of parts of ourselves. No one is completely... You're not part of one extreme. Everyone is somewhere in between which is great. I like the fact she spoke about sacred spaces", "in ons wêreld, we moet een sekere ruimte waarin ons gaan. Ek het graag dat sy gesprok het dat ons daar gaan, speciaal in tijden van behoor en dankbaarheid. Sy sê dat ons hier een sekerete ruimte moet hebben wat ons kan gaan doen vir al die dier.", "The Salah was actually great because I could connect even more. It was very well organized, the khutbah was very good and it was nice to see Amina up there. Always nice to hear her speak and then even after celebrations it's nice to mingle with everybody again." ]
amina_wadud/Amina Wadud_ Extended speeches_52glzDLMD6A&pp=ygURQW1pbmEgV2FkdWQgaXNsYW0%3D_1742945608.opus	[ "I begin as always in the name of Allah, whose grace I seek in this and all other matters. The Muslim women's movement today is experiencing a critical mass. More than any other time in history, Muslim women participate in the radical changes of our lives in formulating", "the basic paradigms upon which our lives are measured. What I will discuss with you here today has happened all in my lifetime alone. There have been more radical considerations of the possibilities of how to live as Muslim women in our time than at any other time. I want to say, except at the time of the advent of Islam, but the aspect about", "will speak cannot even be said about the nascent community of Islam 14 centuries ago. This distinction is important. There was a radical shift in worldview and praxis with the transformation of Islam. Certain rights were given to women that had not existed anywhere in the world, like a woman's right to own property,", "right to learn and receive education, a woman's right to inherit, a women's right divorce her husband for as little as failure to satisfy her sexually. A woman's rights act as witness in court of law. But while these were tremendous benefits for women transforming their lives neck-and-neck with the transformation in the lives of men if not more so given the abysmal status", "Revelation or at the time of Islamic beginnings. Of course, however we should note women were not themselves the catalysts of these changes or the agents of change they were beneficiaries of the divine revelation to the Prophet who both articulated the message of the Quran as revealed to him and embodied it. What marks our present", "new millennium exceptional is the critical mass of Muslim women engaged in the struggle for the realization of the political implementation of their own self-determination. Maybe some of you are stuck in the old paradigm, you know, the one that ascribes to Muslims a single role, that of the helpless victim waiting", "her own religion? I certainly hope not. In the past few decades, we witnessed Muslim women engaged at every level of the community in every community even in the most remote village within the arenas of education law science politics family economics environment spirituality and art wherever there are Muslims", "in the world, Muslim women have become the agents of change and human dignity. Despite this critical mass of transformation, of course all women do not go about this change in the same way. Sometimes there is great contradiction and discord. This is natural", "course we are unaware of or insensitive to the diversities and then become subject to programs of divide-and-conquer. Instead of seeing how our various strategies lend themselves towards the completion of similar goals, human dignity and honor, we are pitted against each other to determine who amongst us is right", "what is the nature of the Muslim women's agenda and what are the strategic methods for change and transformation. Those of us engaged in the discourse and activism, are fond of pointing out that Muslim women are not a monolith. Still it is interesting to note we aspire to a utopian unity of reform looking for a monolithic solution or single uniform strategy.", "This presentation is about the diversity of strategic approaches to gender reform. I have worked on gender issues before I would own the word feminism as appropriate for my scholarship, activism and identity. I persist with my aim to make certain articulations towards gender equality within the faith or from a faith perspective.", "I was born in the U.S. Civil Rights Movement. My father, a Methodist minister, took me to the March on Washington with the Reverend Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. in 1963 when I was 11 years old. There has never been a separation between ideas of God and the fight against oppression", "and what form the oppression takes or who it is against. Every discussion about Islam in women begins with the meaning of the word, Islam. People often operate under presumption that there is a uniform agreement on the meaning", "Islam is a violent religion. The source of such abstractions is frequently not provided.\" One important development that the women's movement helped to forge in international debates at the beginning of the new millennium was the distinction between Muslim cultures and Islamic primary sources, that is the Quran, the established Sunnah, the authentic Ahadith", "understandings of the term Sharia and Fiqh. I begin with a definition of Islam encapsulated by its most basic and fundamental principle, Tauheed. At the most fundamental level it refers to God as one. For matters of social justice it refers towards the more intensified form of its syntactical origin,", "could be defined as unity. This social principle of Tawheed mandates a relationship between human beings only of equality and reciprocity. The role of women in Islam is to be Khalifa on the earth, a moral agent of Allah within the sacred order of balance and harmony in the universe.", "Indeed, I will create an agent on the earth. Woman was not created as a byproduct of helpmate for or second-class citizen to man. Furthermore, her agency is in a direct relationship to God unmitigated by men, men's agency, family, or culture.", "This agency is to be manifest by actions in the creation, on the earth, standing up for justice and gender equality, working to reform asymmetrical gender policies and toppling tyrannical practices and epistemologies are thus essential to an agent as part of the divine human relationship.", "are all mandated by Allah and established by the prophetic sunnah. Coincidentally, this is the same as the role of men in Islam. Women are human. They do not depend upon men for their humanity. It is given to them by Allah. While women have always been a part of the community expected to conform to the development", "the foundational paradigms of Islamic thought and practice, they did not enjoy equal participation in establishing the fundamental understanding of what is Islam. In fact as the Muslim empire spread geographically and politically after the Abbasid period women's contributions to the fundamental canon of Islam were further marginalized", "This had a profound effect on the future of Islamic thought and the establishment of both legitimacy and authority. If we look back over Islamic history from our vantage point, we see a very minor role that women played in establishing the basic epistemology that would come to stand as authority and legitimacy. Today, women are present and accounted for at every level", "the least of which is the scholarly and ritual community. Women work to make sure we contribute to the establishment of precedent for later communities in Islam. We participate fully in establishing new canon, constructing new traditions, forming new policies, living in the present with an eye on the past and a conscious trajectory towards the future.", "to the asymmetry between women and men in Muslim communities in the past. However, we do not go about this without some contention between our voices, perspectives, methods, and objectives. This is natural, inevitable, and for the most part useful. Despite evidence of certain exceptional voices against gender inequality throughout Muslim history,", "Muslim history, today we experience a mass movement of women and men against gender asymmetry as injustice. It matters very little if this injustice was established by intent or by accident of discrimination. The modern Muslim women's movement is connected to certain global developments.\" I'm going to paraphrase some of this but one", "is the end of colonialism. What's interesting about the enterprise for the end colonialism, is that women and men stood side by side in order to achieve independence and the establishment of the nation state but when the independence was won they were not full beneficiaries of the policies that would then put into place. They're basically told to go back home and make bread. I became aware", "rift between Muslim women's perspectives when I was at the Beijing World Conference for Women in 1995. There were more Muslim women present at that meeting than any of the previous UN meetings and also any of subsequent UN meetings, so taking advantage of this opportunity they thought well let's come together and form a Muslim women caucus. A nightly meeting was called between those Muslim women", "It was impossible to find any common ground between two dominant but contending voices. And for some reason the representatives of those voices found themselves unable to decide on an agenda between them with regard to those whom they represent and with regard their own presence. One voice I will call Muslim secular feminists,", "to remove religion from the debates. Religion they would propose is irreconcilably patriarchal, Islam is patriarchal. There's no way forward for women except to adopt the standards proposed by the UN and keep religion out of it. If a woman wishes to recognize her religion that is personal but is not a matter of policy otherwise it could hamper the progress being proposed on her behalf.\"", "Of course, this position is unacceptable to Muslim women who feel a strong connection to their identity as Muslims. Even though it articulates the response that is felt by Muslims to the sting of colonialist movements and the attempt of the new imperialism to articulate what is understood as universal. The other voice at Beijing is the voice of the Islamist movement", "movement. They likewise asserted that you cannot have both Islam and human rights. If there must be a choice, then they held the authoritative indigenous and culturally more authentic voice, the voice of Islam. For them although Islam did not align itself with modern notions of gender equality, the gender complementarity that it did offer was superior", "see the wisdom behind it. There was literally some people who went around with a little booklet, The Wisdom Behind Islam's Perspective on Gender. A third voice was also present at the conference but it was in its nascent stage with no clear methodology or implementable strategy let alone a set of objectives. However they did argue or we did argue that the either-or binary did not reflect", "women. Most Muslim women unquestionably identify with Islam. At the same time, many express concern over experiences of disjuncture between what is promoted as the ideal of Islam and their own lived realities. In the 20th century these lived realities were increasingly being made public. With so much attention however", "disavow Islam was no doubt confusing, if not also confounding. Further clarification was needed to distinguish the voice of this third agenda from the Islamist agenda because they also refused to disavows Islam. Meanwhile as this third voice was critiquing certain practices and the underlying patriarchal structures", "Muslim cultures, they were shunned by the Islamists as being one and the same as secular Muslim feminists. As such a development of a more nuanced mediating articulation would go unnoticed for some time. Part of the development of this mediating artiuclation was to critique the terms Islam and feminism or human rights. To interrogate their relevance", "Muslim women. In fact, the term feminism became a linchpin. It is interesting to note that neither terms, Islam or feminism was subjected to more dynamic development initially. However without this interrogation it is difficult to distinguish the next development of gender discourse and action. The meeting of Islam and feminism was only possible when such an interrogation", "feminism had to be Western, had to secular. For those who would develop into or were already self-recognized secular feminists this projection of feminism was unproblematic. Similarly for the Islamist this projection was un problematic because it helped fuel their refusal to adopt the title feminist no matter what the nature of their scholarship or activism.", "of the term feminist helped to clarify who was who. Equally problematic, however, was the reified usage of the terms Islam acceptable to both groups. When both terms were challenged then the edges of the debate moved forward by leaps and bounds. One of the main contributions of the third voice at Beijing since that meeting", "the neoconservative understanding of Islam. It began with a gender-inclusive analysis of the notion of human being in the Islamic intellectual traditions and primary sources, fixing upon simple Islamic cosmology articulated in the Quran that the human being is an agent of divine will or khalifa. While this articulation", "and the foundation of the Islamic worldview, its application to women had been curtailed by other functionary relationships. The standard measurement of patriarchy within Muslim historical and cultural contexts limited a woman's agency to God only in as much as it manifests through her agency to men and to family.", "or direct to God, even when family relationships could be seen as important. It is the status of the person in the patriarchal family that Muslim personal status law adjudicates. Establishing and maintaining the patriarchial family does not require women's human agency or human rights. It does not even require social justice in the way that we understand it today.", "The patriarchal family is built upon unequal or complementary relationships. The third voice at Beijing began as a questioning voice. Does this complementarity fulfill the divine purpose on earth, or achieve agency, the ultimate obligation of all human beings created by Allah? A woman's service to men or family should never be", "for her service and agency to Allah. However, in the patriarchal family structure, the only one known heretofore within Muslim cultures challenges to the autonomy of women's agency are seen as good and natural byproducts of her nature. Furthermore, to reject the patriarch or family would have been the same as rejecting", "participate in Islam. It was not a price the overwhelming majority of Muslim women were willing to pay, so they made their peace with it.\" There is no doubt that women's roles in Islam are part of current global debates in the new millennium. More importantly unlike any other time in history, Muslim women themselves are leading these debates.", "This presentation looks at the difference between three main voices in the debates. What we cannot deny is that Muslim women themselves are taking control over the future of what Islam and gender will look like. At stake is a fundamental understanding of what islam intends for women as human beings, agents of Allah,", "Muslim women notions of gender from pre-modern times which cast women as dependents needing male benevolence and maintenance are untenable. However, the ability to counter such ideas by formulating new ones has gained momentum only within an Islamic framework with the kind of work that is done under the banner of Islamic feminism.", "Islamic feminism works to establish a new egalitarian epistemology of Islam based on its own primary sources and not with the intermediary of patriarchal thinkers or culture. Islamic feminism says, Islam belongs to all of us. All of us have a stake, not only in how our religion is defined but also how religious ideas are implemented", "public policies or in our homes. Furthermore, we say notions about women's subservience are the result of certain medieval constructions reflecting the understanding of jurists and philosophers at that time but they are not divine constructions. We are free to understand divine constructs for ourselves", "a much broader vista of gender possibilities than heretofore practiced or even imagined. In our context, justice—that essential principle inherent in all Islamic texts—must be in accordance to ideas and practices of equality and reciprocity. Today we are up against the realization about diverse communities", "We must propose and construct modes of operation beyond those into which we were born, and about which we know on the basis of a radically alternative worldview and epistemology. We are also up against attempts to articulate universal ideas about humankind and human rights. The possibility of participating in these discussions as Muslims actually stems from", "from the kind of work that has shaped Islamic feminist philosophy and theology. This theology is based on an interactive relationship within the production of knowledge in Islam, including knowledge about God or Allah, and knowledge about human relationships with God and with each other. The basis of this philosophical perspective is Tawhid.", "on the metaphysical level is not limited to Islam or to Muslims. It is simply derived from Islamic sources. At the root level, tawhid refers to monotheism. However it is more than merely God is one especially considering that the origins of the word tawhi is a second form of the verb which is emphatic. At", "This can be depicted by a vertical line up to down, down to up. Human beings are created by Allah and as agents in service of Allah at the lower part of the metaphysical reality than they have a relationship with each other. Although humans are numerous and in diverse communities, the Quran says, nations and tribes,", "of another in humanness. Therefore, with regard to each other humans exist only on the horizontal line of reciprocity.\" The Tawhidic paradigm of reciprocy moves beyond its philosophical or theological framework when put into application in civil society and in the context of global pluralism. No one has a greater humanity than an other.", "have been most highly developed under the new democracies, albeit still imperfectly. These democracies simply adhere to the necessity of people orchestrating the rules of their own realities within the systems that govern. For women and gender, especially in the context of Islam and Muslims this also requires a fundamental rethinking", "personal status law. Although the idea of family as a human intimate relation is contained, all manifestations of patriarchy and family must be altered towards egalitarian relations. Marriage is not a contract of sale with the woman becoming a commodity of the man. Marriage", "fidelity, responsibility, love and compassion as the Quran says. The difference between them biologically will certainly affect the childbearing and childrearing stages but only in so much as the biological tasks go. No other aspect of nurturing, developing well-being", "In the broader context of policy, politics, public ritual and the home no role is exclusive to either male or female. The capacity to develop the skills mandated to fulfill any role adheres only to our humanness and not to our biological sex. This is the radical contribution of Islamic feminism.", "human rights, we are not compromising Islam. We are challenging the fundamental basis of how those rights and how Islam is adjudicated in the law and in public policy and how they are experienced in practice in the private spaces of the family and the culture. Towards this goal both Islamism and secular feminism play a vital role provided that", "between them is put to the service of the empowerment of women as full agents before Allah and in society. Thank you" ]
amina_wadud/Amina Wadud - FER PODCAST - Feminist Theology II_wROwpOvGXgw&pp=ygURQW1pbmEgV2FkdWQgaXNsYW0%3D_1742902091.opus	[ "Thank you very much, Professor Vadoud for accepting this interview for Feminism and Religion School in the Balkans. At the beginning I would like to say a few words about you. It'll take time to count all the achievements and contribution in the field of Islam and gender", "Islam and gender you have done but I will briefly mention some of them something from your biography Professor Amina Badud is a professor emeritus Islamic studies at Virginia Commonwealth University but she currently lives in Indonesia and run her own portal the lady mom", "to know you and to talk to you and learn from you so professor wadud studied islam from malaysia the united states at several universities and also taught at many universities around the world while she studied in malaysian she edited her dissertation and later she published it in the book quran and woman rereading", "translated in Bosnian language her activism started while she was in Malaysia and together with seven other women she organized the first pro-faith Pro feminist organization sister in Islam and uh it inspired The Network of musava Global movement for reform in Muslim personal status law her second book inside the gender Jihad women's Reform in Islam was published in 2006", "and together with numerous articles, lectures and teaching is part of her intellectual rich intellectual Legacy. Thank you Professor Vadoud for this interview and opportunity for the students of Feminism and Religion School in the Balkans to learn from you. And now we are approaching to the question that is very controversial today it's about", "It's about women Imams and as the person who led the prayer for women and men, and who is the lady Imam and who has known her teachings about it.", "that the mainstream teachings of Islam doesn't allow mixed prayer. Even some teachings don't allow women at all to lead the prayer for women. So what are the key arguments we can use for women Imams? To lead the prayers and teach, to be an authority in Islam. This is something many women today", "women today want to know and they are also discussing whether women-only mosque is the solution or gender inclusive mosque, what we have now around Europe and US. So can you tell us more about it? Are there any theological and legal obstacles for women to be imams? I have so many answers to this question and I think i'll start with this one.", "Nowhere in the Quran does it say that men and only men can lead. And nowhere in the Qur'an does it prohibit women from leading, and nowhere in Hadith does it says sorry I live where mosquitoes come out at about this time and I have an open design so excuse me I am allergic to mosquitoes but nowhere in hadith does a prophet upon him be peace say that", "prayer and nowhere does the prophet prohibit. As a matter of fact, we have a Sahih Hadid that discusses the prophet assigning a woman to be imam in her territory, in her da'at. And yes, this becomes a comprehensive understanding. And that again lets you know the power of interpretation. And also it lets", "being because if the text is our primary source then we should be able to call a text instead we sort of go round about and we take something similar or we take uh you know a rejalo power moon at 4 34 and we make it into all kinds of things that don't make any sense at all i mean you know we can we can do this so when you look strictly", "the schools of legal thinking developed, the majority of them did not accept that a woman could be an imam. Especially if she was imamed over a mixed gender but also as you said some of them even for just other women so already they're reflecting on diversity well they also some", "of women as imams, including imams of Salah even if they restricted it to say only during the tarawih, during the nights of Ramadan. So in any case, the literature that discusses is not all one thing there is a majority opinion and that majority opinions some people try to tell you is the only opinion but it's never been the only opinions. And because even in the classical period", "there's no challenge in my mind to understanding what's going on today. And what's is this, there is a clear objective in the Quran for all humans to develop their own excellence and that excellence in the context of Islam and Muslims includes not just", "not just our spirituality but the performance or the illocutionary expressions of those uh of that excellence by way of worship we have a very formal notion of ritual and ritual is extremely important to not only the discipline of the being", "developing that excellence, one of the things that's really clear is that there is no distinction on the basis of gender. There is no distinctions on the bases of gender identity. These are all something that again, the predominant foundational thinkers and writers about Islam were cis male persons", "You look at the book, Gender Morality that came up by Zehra Ayubi. One of my favorite books for 2021 was this gender morality because she does a gender analysis of the entire ethics modality and what they simply said is yes, of course women to men are equal but men are better. That's basically what they said because men have this capacity for developing this excellence", "said actually there's no restriction in who develops the excellence so for me when i accepted to leave the prayer that became so you know controversial sort of went viral before they was viral it was after i had been invited to give a khutbah in a mosque for friday prayer", "to it because I had to do both the research and the soul search. I had understand, you know, I had don't understand well even if I think it might be appropriate why do I think I should be the one to do it? And the reality is that if I express my deepest sincerity before Allah,", "nature I'm an introvert so it was so challenging for me to in the form of Dean that is no way of life I would say it doesn't matter to me where I stand I am always praying only to Allah and yet I prefer to stand in the back and I prefer", "for me to accept that if it makes no difference then i could also stand in front sometimes people don't realize what a challenge it was for me because it's sort of taken for granted because i recognize myself even as the lady imam but it was a challenge and that challenge was for", "only thing that makes you closer to Allah is the sincerity within your heart. And that can be in the back, that can by a room on the side, that could be by yourself, that's not how the typical authoritative patriarchal hegemonic Islam works. For them standing in front means you're better. But there's no notion that you could be better in Islam. Allah is present everywhere. So there", "sort of a psycho-spiritual discourse that goes around the presumption that somehow the imam is closer to Allah. The imam was not closer to a lot, the iman is a functionary in a public formal ritual that needs at least one person to help orchestrate it. He's not closer she's my closer and when we truly understand this then", "it makes no difference, male or female. Because we remove the authority from that person and we simply make them back as a servant, a servant of Allah who is serving through this function of this ritual. So my relationship to it is not simply that once I began working on the Tawhidi paradigm,", "that the reality is that women and men really are equal they're equal partners in this goal of arriving at excellence because i as a woman also was pushed back and i just didn't resist because no one can take away from me allah so i didn't think it made any difference but you know like", "magical thing that I guess Allah had in for me because I didn't come here intending to live here and now four years later, I'm very happy to live. So I didn t enter into my Islam or go to South Africa or even the visit to New York. I didn d go because I felt like I m better than someone. I always went with the understanding that I am tasked", "of excellence may sometimes cause me to have to step outside of my comfort zone. And that's what ended up happening and now it's history so when people say women can't be imams you know what I say? Too late. Sometimes as you said, sincerity before Allah is crucial, it doesn't matter where we are but if religious authorities", "religious authorities use the argument that women cannot be Imam as their deficiency in faith and they cannot have full authority, and also that they cannot develop excellence in their faith. Then it seems that it is important that women can give hutbah", "Also, some women are not willing to accept women imam. And the reason I've heard was that the specific way of prayer with the body movement similar to some of yoga elements bowing down in front of someone doesn't feel comfortable for many of them to do it in front", "yeah and that really says a lot about men uh I mean and men say that too I mean they say oh because we have a full body then when you know you must bow down everything the reality is that the purpose of the prayer is five times a day to bring us back to remembrance of our relationship to Allah and therefore", "off it makes no difference who is praying in front of us. It makes no different to explain behind this and actually you know before the Saudi started becoming very restrictive and very aggressive in the Haram Sharif when you go to Mecca, when the lines would form there would often be lines of women in front", "in line you know so i don't believe that that's a distraction um i i think also that if someone uh does in fact experience that as a distraction they need to really uh you know check their own heart because how is it that this is our highest form of worship that's why it's five times a day", "highest activity, your mind is at the lowest level. And that is that you're thinking about a person's body. So I mean, I understand that we are still weak humans and all of that, but I refuse to define Islam according to its lowest element. I really want to aspire to excellence and I want to believe", "utopic, then it means that Allah's plan for humanity is flawed. So I think it is in fact possible and that's why these days I've been working with the Karama notion, the dignity. I think really is possible for us to relate to others with so much dignity that when we come to pray, we will respect mutually the dignity of the person beside us", "us and in front of us and behind us. And that is also part of our own dignity as humans. And I really believe, and one of the things I do experience with great love and joy is being in the inclusive mosque places where people who have gender identities across the spectrum are not intimidated to stand forth in their own gender identity,", "their own gender identity, and all of us are praying to Allah. That that is something that's still very moving to me because as a woman, even in a binary setting, I know what it's like when you have to go through the back of the mosque and there's not proper lighting and the sound system doesn't work or whatever. I've experienced all those things. And I think, wow, these are not expressions of Karama.", "examples of how we you know experience Islam as a religion that confirms the necessity of dignity as part of what Allah has given us like Adam, we have given dignity to the sons and daughters of Adam so I it's not that I haven't experienced those things is that I've decided that I will not let those things be the determinant for you know the love of Islam that I have", "I have and the growth that I've experienced within it, and also my own personal aspirations towards excellence. That being said, I have to admit it's not for everybody. There are some people who are just not ready. And because of it, I had to accept moving in places where people don't want people to know that I'm there or they want me to help them or advise them but they don't wanna put my name on top...", "I totally understand it. I don't agree with it, but I understand it so i think we have a long way to go before we universally accept that it doesn't matter the gender of the one who is leading the prayer, but i am very hopeful that we will keep moving until we have", "And if you have, if you like to say something for the end of this interview, please do. Some kind of a maybe message for women today, not particularly women in the Balkans region, but in general for Muslim women today? I actually have something very specific for the women in", "with the experience of Malcolm X or Al-Hajj Malik al-Shabazz when he went to perform Ahadj. He had an experience with people who helped him to understand that people can talk about their race without hegemony or superiority.", "they're simply talking about the color of their skin but in the american context with white supremacy when they say they're white they mean they're the boss well when i traveled to sarajevo as a black woman you know descended of slaves true i'm hybrid it's too unmixed but i definitely claim my own african heritage when i came to bosnia", "I actually experienced every day when I was there, this encounter with so many white Muslims who never othered me on the grounds of my race. And I just want to say that means to me that there is something really important from your region that can be contributed", "your example to be made available to others so that people like myself and Malcolm X can really see the beauty of Islam in all colors. So I really want to thank you all for that. Thank you for these beautiful words in the end." ]
amina_wadud/Amina Wadud_ Figura Agama Kontroversi_1WJO5ChKGTU&pp=ygURQW1pbmEgV2FkdWQgaXNsYW0%3D_1742917890.opus	[ "Korang pernah dengar tak mengenai seorang wanita yang telah pun menjadi imam solat jumat kepada para lelaki dan juga wanita suatu ketika dahulu? Jadi itulah yang dilakukan oleh Aminah Wadud yang berasal daripada Bethesda, Maryland. Jadi Aminahl Waduk ni dia adalah seorang yang feminist dan juga liberal Dia telah memeluk Islam pada tahun 1972 Dan dia banyak mempertahankan hak-hak wanita dimana dia selalu cakap yang lelakki dan juga Wanita tiada beza", "Aminah Wadud ni bukan jadi imam sekali je. Dia mengulangi perbuatannya itu sekali lagi pada tahun 2008 apabila dia menjadi imam solat jumat buat kali kedua dan Aminnah Waduk ni, dia bukan boleh jadi iman je untuk solat jumaat. Dia juga boleh menyampaikan hutbah Jum'at dan tajuk hutbah tersebut adalah Islam as English Surrender Nak cakap Aminna Wadut ni tak pandai? Tak! Nah, dia bukannya macam Ayah Pin. Ayah pin dia sekolah sampai darjah 2 je", "belajar dua je tapi Aminah Wadud ni dia ada degree, dia ada PhD and Aminnah Waduk ni dia punya degree adalah degree dalam science dan juga dia punya PhD adalah pengajian Arab dan Islam masa dia belaja sambil dia buat degree, PhD tu dia telah pun travel ke satu tempat iaitu di Universiti Al-Azhar dimana dia bekerja bahasa arab dan juga mentafsir Al-Quran so nampaklah yang Aminna Wadut ni bukanlah orang", "calang-calang dalam menuntut ilmu sebab siapa je yang boleh belajar PhD and then dalam masa yang sama belaja satu bahasa lain yang memang bukan bahasa dia and then tafsir, belajarkan mentafsir Al-Quran pula so dia ni memang orang cakap cendekiawan lah ke cendekiawati? haa yang tu lah pada tahun 1989 hingga ke 1992 Aminah Wadud ini pernah", "wadud ini pernah berkhidmat di Universiti Islam Antarabangsa Malaysia iaitu UIA sebagai pembantu profesor dalam mengkaji Al-Quran. Di samping itu Aminah Wadud ni juga rajin menulis dan dia telah pun keluarkan bukunya sendiri yang bertajuk Quran and Woman dimana buku tu adalah mengenai pentafsiran Al-Kur'an dari mata wanita. Lain macam tajuk dia tu. Dan buku tersebut walaupun terdapat pelbagai isu dan sebagainya", "dan sebagainya tetapi masih lagi digunakan hingga ke hari ini oleh aktivis-aktivis feminist yang berkecimpung dalam bidang sukarelawan dan sebegini Aminah Wadud ni dia memang bukan seorang yang biasa-biasalah dia memang luar biasa sebab aktif memberi syarahan dekat pelbagai negara seperti Jordan, Pakistan USA, Canada dan juga negara kita sendiri iaitu Malaysia Kemudian Aminat Waduk ni mengeluarkan buku keduanya pula", "bertajuk Inside the Gender di mana dia banyak menceritakan aktiviti dan juga pengalaman dalam berdakwah di jalan. Aminah Wadud ni, dia telah secara terbukanya bersuara yang dia menolak hukum hudut yang dinyatakan dalam Quran iaitu apabila seseorang itu mencuri maka hukumanya adalah memotong tangan dan dia menelak hudun itu dan menyatakan bahawa kita tidak boleh menjatuhkan hukuma yang sekejam itu", "seseorang kerana kita juga harus mempunyai sifat kemanusiaan dan dia menolak hukum yang dinyatakan dalam Al-Quran itu dan perpegang teguh pada pendapat dia sendirilah. Pernahlah sekali Aminah Wadud ni dia apply lah apa ini untuk menjadi imam di certain-certain masjid atau museum and mostly, kebanyakannya tolaklah dia punya application tu tapi ada satu museum ni dia terima yang Aminnah Wadude ni menjadi imaman solat jumat dekat museum tu dan tak lama lepas tu sebelum Aminna Waduq ni jadi imam, museum tu telah menerima ancaman bom", "bom. Jadi, andai kata Aminah Wadud menjadi imam solat jumat di museum tersebut maka museum itu akan dibom dengan rakusnya dan disebabkan itulah Aminnah Wadude cancel plan dia" ]
amina_wadud/Amina Wadud Geng_SD-2FIPP4HU&pp=ygURQW1pbmEgV2FkdWQgaXNsYW0%3D_1742948801.opus	[ "Ar-Rahman ar-Rahim The most gracious, the most merciful Malik yawm al deen Master of the Day of Judgment Iyak naqadu wa iyak nashtaheen May you do me worship and my need to be seen Hidna siratul mustaateen Show us the straight path Siratul laleena in amta aleyhim The path of those on whom You have bestowed Your grace Khairul maqdoobie aleyh", "Not the path of those whose portion is wrath or who go astray. In the name of Allah, the most gracious, most merciful. Say, Allah is one. The eternal.", "It's not always forgotten. And there is none other unto Him.", "السلام عليكم ورحمة الله وبركاته" ]
amina_wadud/Amina Wadud gives the 2010 Small-Thomas lecture_Ix9vJsAcHic&pp=ygURQW1pbmEgV2FkdWQgaXNsYW0%3D_1743319271.opus	[ "I really appreciate the invitation to give this lecture, especially because of this particular focus on the interface between religion, spirituality and social justice. It's just that I define religion today myself. The most recent articulation of Islamic gender politics are the Islamic feminists", "Islamic feminist. Islamic feminism does not collapse secular Western paradigms with Islamic ideals nor reject Islamic culture, cultural legal or spiritual manifestations in preference for Western ones. It does not define Islam as static thereby limiting our role as active participants", "our experiences, our realities have important implications and impact on how we live as Muslims today. Islamic feminisms use Islam itself as the basis for liberation transformation and for policy and practical reforms. Islamic Feminism do not choose between either or. We assert both and.", "Patriarchy is based on a kind of logic, the logic of one being better than another. And it's a vertical logic. It works like this. Laws at the top, males in the middle, female is below that and arrows pointing only one direction. Actually I've seen this discussed in philosophical literature and I pondered some of the literature for a long time", "I found that I had something that was vexing me. And it didn't come automatically, but over time I realized what was vexes in me is that we have a world view in Islam that says there's no intermediary between God and any person. Between God you don't have to have the prophet although the prophet brings revelation. You don't need to have a teacher or teachers teach us. You dont' have to say, you don' t have to pray. You directly have relationship with God. But you notice this one? That there's", "When I was looking at it, I actually had little office magnets with balls and little colored things in between. And I was actually playing with these until I constructed my own configuration that did not allow for a separation between the person and God whether male or female. The result was there can only be one type of relationship between the male and the female and that is one of horizontal reciprocity.", "If you look at the previous model, if you try to quote unquote put women in the same position as men they're going to have to be above. And I think a lot of people that's how their logic works so when you give women quote unquote equality somehow it brings them down. But if you put it on a line of horizontal reciprocity it doesn't matter whether we have male on this side or female on this because we are a reciprocal relationship and we all or both have a direct relationship with God. So at the metaphysical level there is a hierarchy between the sacred and mundane", "and the mundane, that at the human to human level there can only be equality and reciprocity." ]
amina_wadud/Amina Wadud_ hermenéutica feminista del Corán_kgDY7L2ICXA&pp=ygURQW1pbmEgV2FkdWQgaXNsYW0%3D_1742930888.opus	[ "Buen día. Hola, ¿qué tal? Juan José, nos da muchísimo gusto saludarte. Ya estamos aquí conectadas a Facebook y con muchas personas también conectadas en este espacio de Zoom. Nos da muchísima alegría recibirte. Nos dan mucha alegrría también volver a escucharte con un tema pues muy interesante y sobre todo muy actual, muy candente", "muy candente, muy preocupante a la vez con todo esto que estamos escuchando que sucede en Irán como un país representativo. Lo que sabemos es que en otras partes también donde se practica el Islam hay una lucha constante por liberar el cuerpo de tantas mujeres. Bueno pues les damos el saludo de bienvenida y me gustaría", "gustaría en este caso cuando se no necesita ninguna presentación porque es nuestro gran amigo compañero de ir tras las huellas de sofía y como teólogo que reconocido mundialmente pues queremos darte la más cordial bienvenida y queremos el que nos platique juan jose sobre amina wadduf", "Y sobre todo que me gustaría resaltar el hecho de que tú como teólogo has seguido avanzando en tu desarrollo teológico y no te has quedado estancado como muchas otras personas en que dicen yo ya lo sé, ya lo conozco, esto ya lo aprendí y tantal. Sino que tú, yo a lo que más admiro de ti es que siempre estás en búsqueda", "nuevas teologías que van surgiendo a lo largo del camino y que te dedicas a estudiarlas, a leerlas, a profundizar en ellas. Y sobre todo en estos textos de mujeres que muchos teólogos y muchas teólogoas también no quieren ya leer y profundizar. Sin embargo tú siempre estás ahí a la vanguardia en tema de apoyando el feminismo", "en toda su amplitud de movimientos y de expresiones. Te doy la más cordial bienvenida, saludos Marisa, y te dejo la palabra porque no queremos quitar ni un minuto más de este tiempo preciado. Bienvenido Juan José, adelante. Buenos días, buenas tardes dependiendo del lugar donde nos encontremos", "seguramente que confundí la hora, que yo mismo propuse a las seis creyendo que eran las 6.30 por tanto les ruego que me disculpen por estos siete u ocho minutos que hemos empezado con retraso y quiero saludar a todas las personas con quienes voy a compartir esta conferencia organizada tras las huellas de Sofía", "Fíjense que el propio título recupera a la deidad femenina de Sofía en la Biblia hebrea y nos lleva derechamente a la teología feminista. Con este nombre no puede hacerse otra cosa que orientarse hacia la teologia feminista Muchas gracias por estas entrañables palabras, por esta generosidad que siempre os caracteriza a Marisa y a ti Andrea", "Andrea y sobre todo porque habéis recuperado yo creo una algo muy necesario y muy revolucionario que es la palabra y la figura de Sofía, que saben perfectamente todas las personas que comparten este encuentro que es", "Y os agradezco que me hayáis invitado de nuevo a este espacio privilegiado de teología feminista. Igualmente, muchas gracias por la generosidad y por la colaboración con nosotros en este evento.", "por la generosidad e interés de quienes participan en este evento. Y voy a hablar del feminismo en el Islam y centrarme en una de las figuras más representativas de la teología feminista musulmana, Amina Wadud. Fíjense en el primer dato, Aminah es el nombre de la mamá de Mahoma", "teóloga feminista negra norteamericana tomó ese nombre cuando se convirtió al Islam. Voy a hacer una breve presentación al tema que nos ocupa para entrar directamente en el desarrollo de la línea fundamental de esta exposición. El Islam es quizá", "carácter patriarcal y androcéntrico en su organización, en sus textos sagrados y en sus legislaciones. Así como en los distintos niveles en que se mueve esta religión, que abarca todo el elemento religioso,", "Es posiblemente una de las cuestiones que más interesan al tiempo, que más escandalizan. Y escandaliza no solamente a los hombres y mujeres occidentales sino también a muchos hombres y muchas mujeres de la propia comunidad islámica.", "Este tipo de comportamientos violentos, agresivos, pero no solamente de personas individuales, de hombres y de varones machistas, sino de las propias instituciones. Y el ejemplo más claro es al que se ha referido Andrea de ese asesinato a manos de la policía de esta joven iraní.", "se está repitiendo constantemente. Cuando existía una página web que se llamaba WebIsland, no sé si la recordáis, que estaba liderada por Junta Islámica de España, nos tenían al tanto y nos informaban de todos estos casos de violencia,", "Seguramente es posible y es seguro de que no pocos juicios tan negativos sean certeros, pero también como contrapunto no podríamos olvidar o desconocer otra serie de fenómenos y tendencias en concreto la tendencia diríamos feminista dentro del Islam.", "que constituye a mi juicio hoy una de las más importantes aportaciones en el análisis de la realidad social dentro de las sociedades musulmanas y en el estudio de los textos del Islam, preferentemente del Corán.", "la naturaleza del Islam y que con frecuencia son patologías a curar. ¿Cómo? Pues, con la lectura de los textos sagrados, el estudio de la historia y un mejor conocimiento de la realidad desde el respeto a los derechos humanos y de la emancipación de las mujeres. En este momento yo como estudioso", "más abierto, más progresista y más crítico dentro del Islam? Pues creo que hay dos corrientes que quizás sean las más creativas hoy en el discurso del Islam. Son la teología islámica de la liberación y la teologia feminista musulmana. De la teología islâmica de", "Estamos desarrollando teólogas y teólogo de la liberación de los diferentes continentes que es hacia una Teología Islamo-Cristiana de la Liberación. Pero este no es el tema de hoy, lo remitimos si les parece para otro momento y para otro encuentro. Me voy a referir a la Teología feminista musulmana. Y son numerosas las teologías que cultivan esta teología y está hermenéutica", "Por recordar algunos nombres cuyos libros son asequibles a las personas que participan en este evento, estaría Asma Barlas, que hace una lectura antipatriarcal del Islam, del Corán.", "Recientemente he participado con ella en un evento en Córdoba, muy cerca de la América.", "Son numerosas estas teólogas, entre las cuales he citado a Asma Barlas, a Nimad Jafet Barazaougi, Asmalan Rabet, que es una teóroga feminista marroquí muy vinculada a distintas organizaciones y discursos teológicos de la liberación feminista.", "Natalia Andújar, que es una valiosísima intérprete feminista de los textos del Corán. ¿Y qué es lo que realmente pretenden estas teólogas y otras muchas? Pues yo creo que tienen dos tareas que están desarrollando de manera admirable, no siempre con buenos resultados como está demostrando situaciones dramáticas", "de la joven, de Irán. Pero buscan... tienen dos objetivos. Primero, descolonizar la modernidad y la postmodernidad hegemónicas. Y segundo, despatriarcalizar una tradición musulmana marcada por la discriminación,", "barrer el umbral de nuestra propia casa, que yo creo que es lo que estamos haciendo todas las personas aquí reunidas con el umbrar de nuestra casa cristiano-católica. Y ahora ya me voy a centrar tras esta breve introducción en la figura de Amina Wadut,", "crítica del patriarcado musulmán, del imamato masculino es decir del mundo de los imames y de la interpretación patriarcal del Corán. Hemos celebrado recientemente el día 25 de septiembre yo la he felicitado y ella me ha contestado", "el 50 aniversario de su conversión al Corán y el 40 aniversrio de la publicación de esa obra emblemática, mejor dicho del 30 aniversio de esa publicación. De la obra hermenéutica feminista musulmana más emblemática que es El Corán Y Las Mujeres Reinterpretando los textos sagrados desde la perspectiva de la mujer", "Desde hace más de 30 años está llevando a cabo una creativa hermenéutica feminista del coral, pero esa hermencéutica femenista la lleva a cabo desde su compromiso con el movimiento de los derechos civiles de los negros,", "Y muy especialmente en el mundo islámico. A mí me parece, y confirmenmelo ustedes y si estoy equivocado corrijo, que Amina Gwadut no es suficientemente conocida en el campo y en el entorno de la teología cristiana feminista. Sin embargo sus investigaciones en torno al Islam son comparables por ejemplo en rigor hermenéutico y exegético con las de las grandes teorías", "de las grandes teólogas cristianas feministas, como la pionera Elizabeth Caddy Stanton, que es la autora entre 1895 y 1898 de la obra fascinante y verdaderamente monumental La Biblia de la Mujer. Y luego otras dos, Elizabeth Schurler-Fiorenza, teóroga alemana afincada en los Estados Unidos,", "Elizabeth Johnson, otra de las grandes teólogas estadounidenses que ha tenido graves y serios problemas con el Vaticano por su hermenéutica precisamente feminista. Recuerdo uno de los títulos que yo creo que la reconocen como la gran teólogo feminista que es La que es. Es un libro que está publicado en la editorial Gerber", "Y el título es la traducción en femenino de aquel texto de la Biblia hebrea, en la que Moisés cuando le encarga a Dios ir a liberar a su pueblo, le dice ¿y quién eres tú? El nombre de quien va, voy.", "Desde el punto de vista filológico y desde el punto hermenéutico. En realidad, yo creo que es muy importante dar a conocer a una de estas pioneras que pretende, y esto para mí es clave, recuperar la voz de las mujeres en el texto sagrado del Islam. Una voz silenciada por la interpretación patriarcal.", "En esa voz descubrir la palabra de Dios como liberadora de la opresión femenina. Aminah Wadud es una teóloga, como he dicho, feminista musulmana afrodescendiente nacida en los Estados Unidos, en una familia cristiana cuyo padre era pastor metodista. Ella y los padres participaron activamente", "del movimiento por los derechos civiles liderado por martín luther king y posteriormente siguió las prácticas budistas o sea que es una mujer que compagina sin ningún tipo de contradicción una serie de experiencias y prácticos todas ellas orientadas a la liberación", "se convirtió al Islam, coincidiendo con la segunda o algunos dicen la tercera ola feminista en los Estados Unidos. Esta segunda o tercera OLA está muy bien representada por dos figuras importantísimas que para mí son el referente de la crítica del patriarcado. Una es Mary Daly,", "En castellano su autobiografía, bueno ella falleció el año 2009 y una de las expresiones más significativas de la crítica al patriarcado de Mary Daly que empezó siendo teóloga cristiana y luego abandonó el cristianismo precisamente porque fueron condenados sus libros Más allá de Dios Padre, La Iglesia y el Segundo Sexo, etc.", "de Mary Daly, que quizás en otra ocasión ya la he citado, es Si Dios es varón, el varón es Dios. Y la representante por excelencia de esta segunda o tercera ola del feminismo en los Estados Unidos, Kate Millett, que el año 1970 publica su libro Política sexual, donde afirma con una expresión muy dura y terrible pero al mismo tiempo certera", "El papi hartado tiene siempre a Dios de su lado. Entonces ella veía este movimiento por los derechos civiles y con las prácticas budistas,", "al referente de inspiración el Corá, donde a su juicio no aparece la subordinación de la mujer Álvaro. Doctora en árabe y estudios islámicos por la Universidad de Michigan, vivió en varios países musulmanes e hizo estudios", "conoció a las hermanas en el Islam, movimiento pionero del feminismo islámico fundado en 1988 por Zaina Anwar que ejerció una influencia decisiva en su vida y en su pensamiento. Ha sido profesora en el Departamento de Estudios Filosóficos", "Es investigadora adjunta en el programa de estudios sobre la mujer y pronuncia conferencias en numerosas universidades, foros culturales y religiosos de Estados Unidos, Oriente Medio, el sudeste asiático, África, Europa, Australia y también en España donde ha participado en uno de los más importantes encuentros", "de feminismo islámico, creo recordar el año 2005-2006 en el primero celebrado en Barcelona. Sus investigaciones se centran en el Islam y el género ofreciendo una interpretación alternativa del Coral. Es también un activista en la defensa de los derechos humanos y especialmente de las mujeres musulmanas.", "Y en 1992, a la edad de 40 años, publicó el libro El Corán y la Mujer leyendo el texto sagrado desde una perspectiva de la mujer. Uno de los libros más emblemáticos de la teología feminista islámica y texto de referencia tanto, y esto yo creo que es muy importante,", "como para activistas. Es un texto que provocó un fortísimo impacto tanto dentro como fuera del Islam. La voz de Amina Gwadut es una de las más escuchadas al tiempo que las más provocativas del feminismo islámico,", "seguidoras del Islam y muy especialmente a los dirigentes religiosos, a quienes provoca y que se dividen en dos grupos. Quienes critican su comportamiento desafiante y la anatematizan, que son los más, y quienes la apoyan y comparten su exégesis igualitaria del Corán", "me parece importantísimo porque es una ruptura radical con el imamato patriarcal, en agosto de 1994 pronunció un sermón sobre el Islam como compromiso de entrega", "en una asamblea de musulmanes y musulmanas en Nueva York. Las mezquitas de la localidad le negaron la entrada para dicha oración que se celebró en un local de la Catedral Episcopaliana de San Juan el Divino. Con dicha práctica estaba desafiando a la autoridad patriarcal musulmana,", "musulmanes y musulmanas, pero bajo la protección policial en el exterior del templo para evitar incidentes causados por musulmenes integristas que protestaban por dicho acto. Es muy importante el gesto en sí,", "es muy importante para el Islam. Por desgracia, los musulmanes han hecho una interpretación muy restrictiva de la historia y han caminado hacia atrás. Con esta plegaria nos estamos moviendo hacia adelante. Este acto solidario es un símbolo de las posibilidades ocultas del Islam. Ese mismo año volvió a dirigir la oración", "En una asamblea mixta de Barcelona durante la celebración del primer congreso de feminismo islámico. Las reacciones de los ulemas, lo que serían los teólogos dentro del cristianismo, no se hicieron esperar. El sheikh por ejemplo Yusef al-Karadawi de Qatar dictó un decreto en contra de la actuación de Amina Gwadut a Perú.", "apelando al cuerpo de la mujer, cuyo físico naturalmente constituye una provocación a los instintos de los hombres. Y en esa fatwa condenaba a Mina Gadut por anti-islámica y herética y a los participantes en la oración por cómplices.", "En ulemas, como por ejemplo Sabet Tantagui del Cairo declaró inválida la plegaria mixta alegando que los hombres han de rezar con humildad y modestia y nunca en presencia de una mujer. También hubo reacciones favorables por parte de intelectuales y académicos musulmanes", "el pakistaní Yaved Ahmad, que vieron en el gesto de Amin Aguadut un cambio revolucionario en el Islam, que contaba con el apoyo de las fuentes islámicas y que tendría repercusiones en todo el mundo.", "o de los siglos X al XIV, que encuentran dentro del Corán lo que ellos llaman la profecía femenina. Y se refieren a mujeres del Islam que ejercen esta función profética. Se refiere pues a la madre de Moisés,", "Y así sucesivamente. Y la propia Amina Wadud reconoce las importantes aportaciones que a la teología feminista musulmana están haciendo una serie de pensadores musulmanes de una gran importancia.", "no se hizo esperar y afirmaron lo siguiente, ni en el Corán ni en los hadices existe un solo texto que prohíba a las mujeres dirigir la oración en una congregación de hombres y mujeres. Si una mujer está capacitada para pronunciar el sermón el viernes en la mezquita ¿por qué no lo va a hacer? Preguntaron.", "Por la comunidad, ¿por qué no va a poder dirigir la oración comunitaria? Yo tengo una experiencia de hace 8 o 10 años en un gran congreso sobre teología islamocristiana de la liberación en el que participé de la presencia de mujeres musulmanas teólogas. Dos de ellas eran responsables de su propia comunidad elegidas por la comunidad.", "elegidas democráticamente. El gesto subversivo de Aminat Badut condujo a una reflexión en profundidad sobre el tema y al ulterior reconocimiento del imamato femenino en diferentes comunidades musulmanas", "que predica una mujer imama. La red de Mejquitas del Tawid, creada en Estados Unidos por la Asociación Progresista de Valores Progresistas, fundada por un musulmán varón indonesio, fundado por la imama indonesia Ani Sonebel, defiende un Islam inclusivo a favor de la igualdad de género.", "En Washington hay una mezquita dirigida por el imán Gaye Ndaasie y en noviembre de 2012 la Asociación de Musulmanes Progresistas de Francia creó la primera mezqueta inclusiva vinculada a la citada red norteamericana de musulmanos por los valores progresistas.", "Amina Gwadut cree, yo creo que ahí sí que es muy idealista e ingenua, que ha terminado la era del patriarcado. Es verdad que defiende que tenemos que evolucionar hacia, cito sus palabras textuales, otro modelo más tolerante y cooperativo porque no solo está en juego el futuro de la historia de la humanidad, sino también el futuro del país.", "sino también el futuro mismo del planeta. Para que nuestras comunidades, familias y naciones avancen más y más mujeres deben llegar a las áreas del progreso y de la liberación en defensa del modelo igualitario y cooperativo cita el Corán ya que en él se sostiene que hombres y mujeres han sido creados", "Y a su juicio se han desvirtuado los principios del profeta, quien no reconocería su ciudad de la iluminación en ninguna comunidad musulmana de hoy. Se ha producido, dice Amina, un desplazamiento funcional del Islam para ajustarlo al dominio de los varones.", "como ella demuestra fundadamente. Y ahora ya me voy a centrar en la hermenéutica feminista del Corán que hace Amina Wadud. Las investigaciones de la teóloga musulmana se orientan, como decía anteriormente, a recuperar la voz de las mujeres en el Corán y su palabra como comentarista del texto.", "Desafiar la tendencia intelectual del Islam que margina la voz femenina en el texto sagrado y en su interpretación, y ampliar las posibilidades de comprensión entre los musulmanes y las musulmanas.", "ausente del legado intelectual del Islam. Sólo los varones se han considerado personas con plenos derechos en presencia de Dios y como guías de las mujeres, mientras que éstas no son más que meras extensiones de los hombres. Más aún dicho silenciamiento es entendido por", "rechistar esta situación de marginalidad durante siglos, con cuando se hayan visto obligadas a negar la igualdad en su condición humana y a dar por buena su exclusión del texto corántico. Pero no es excepción en el caso del Corán, lo tenemos muy presente en la Biblia hebrea", "Igualmente negativo para el Islam. A excepción de los tres o cuatro últimos decenios, apenas se ha producido ninguna exégesis sustancial del Corán que haya sido elaborada por las mujeres. Sin embargo, y este es el contrapunto esperanzado y positivo de Amina, la voz de las mujeres está incluida en el Islam", "Y presta una contribución fundamental a la hora de comentarlo e interpretarlo. Y la búsqueda de dicha voz incluye a la persona con género, a las mujeres. Y cito textualmente,", "de las tres religiones monoteístas, judaísmo, cristianismo e islam, de los tres textos considerados por las personas creyentes de esas religiones como sagrados, posiblemente el menos patriarcal de todos es el Corán. En concreto,", "lo cita 20 veces, pero como se indica acertadamente por Dorotea Suelle, se vincula la paternidad de Dios con los procesos de liberación de los pueblos y de la emancipación de las mujeres. En el caso del cristianismo, pues la palabra Dios, si bien es verdad que en la mayoría", "confianza en Dios Padre y Madre se utiliza más de 100 veces, ¿no? Y en el Corán sin embargo no se utilizza ni una sola vez. Por eso dice Amina Gwadut que la voz de Allah tampoco es la voz", "son la empresa divina de darse a conocer a través del texto. Pero claro, enseguida matiza. Otra cosa es el legado patriarcal intelectual o mejor anti-intelectual del Islam que privilegia ciertamente la voz, las cualidades y los atributos masculinos de Dios relacionados con el poder e incluso con la violencia cuando son mucho más importantes", "mucho más importantes, otras muchas cualidades y otros atributos de la divinidad como se pone de manifiesto. Y les invito que si tienen el Corán lean los textos que se refieren a los llamados 99 nombres más bellos de Dios.", "no a los patriarcales, androcéntricos, atentatorios contra la mujer sino que lo que se hace es incorporar una serie de valores y una serie", "el tierno, el agradecido, el confidente, el protector, el paciente, el indulgente, el equitativo y sobre todo aquellos aspectos o aquellos atributos que tienen que ver con la vida de los seres humanos", "que mejor ha recuperado estos elementos y estas dimensiones, estos atributos de la Deidad musulmana de Allah, sin duda ninguna ha sido el Ibn Arabi, el gran místico sufí,", "Ibn Arabi reconoce que tuvo maestras que le educaron en el Islam, que fueron dos mujeres. Y él mismo a partir de esa experiencia dirá que una institución que no tiene en su seno a las mujeres no es creíble ni reconocible.", "Estos 99 nombres más bellos de Dios que nada tienen que ver con la violencia, con el patriarcado, con él supremacismo divino y por supuesto con los cinco atributos que se aplican a Dios dentro de la teodicea tradicional. Creo que ya alguna vez los he recordado pero por si hay alguna persona que no estuvo en otras sesiones lo recuerdo", "Los cinco atributos que aplicaba la teodicea tradicional a Dios eran la omnipresencia, la omnhipotencia,", "Y los pensamientos de todos los seres humanos por muy ocultos que los tengamos. Entonces, claro, lo que dice Amina Gwadut es que durante los 14 siglos del Islam han sido los hombres casi en exclusiva quienes escribieron tratados de exégesis considerados autoritativos y definitivos.", "femenina del texto, el etos la ética islámica limitó la riqueza de éste lo que constituye a su juicio una injusticia contra el autor divino del texto y contra quienes buscan orientación moral en él. Y dice para ampliar el horizonte ético del texto yo creo que los dos elementos más importantes", "Y el sufismo, precisamente, yo creo que no es solo una de las tres tendencias del Islam juntamente con el chiísmo y el sunismo sino que es el que mejor recupera el núcleo fundamental del Corán. Ese sentido místico que lo vincula y lo relaciona estrechamente", "Y que pudieron ser Teresa de Jesús y sobre todo Juan de la Cruz. Hay una profesora catedrática de literatura de Puerto Rico que ha estudiado la relación entre Ibn Arabi y Juan de La Cruz, y entre el sentido místico de la Biblia hebrea y cristiana y el sentido mágico de Cristo.", "del Corán. Y en ese sentido yo creo que las dos recuperaciones más importantes que hay que hacer son la de la mística y la ética. Claro, ¿cuál es el problema? Que como el Corán ha estado en manos de juristas,", "114 suras que tiene el Corán, azoras solo el 10% se ocupa de cuestiones del derecho en el resto de las azoras y de las alellas lo que caracteriza y lo que define al Corán es precisamente su componente ético", "Y es su dimensión espiritual y mística de encuentro con la divinidad. El componente ético, pues claro tengan en cuenta que el monoteísmo del Islam lo mismo que el del judaísmo y el cristianismo no es un monoteísimo metafísico que busque pruebas para demostrar la existencia de Dios sino que es un", "Dirá Jesús de Nazaret, la manera de ser un buen seguidor mío es practicar la compasión como hizo el buen samaritano. Y en el caso del Islam exactamente lo mismo. Uno de los valores fundamentales que va a defender y que va", "Hospitalidad con las personas extranjeras, con las persona viudas, con los niños y con las niñas y con todas aquellas personas que viven una situación de pobreza y de marginación. Por eso es tan importante recuperar la ética del Corán. Y ella dice para ampliar el horizonte moral del texto", "es necesario eliminar la autoridad interpretativa única de los varones, recuperar la voz femenina dentro del Corán y fomentar el desarrollo de comentarios feministas. Dice a la voz", "Otro argumento coránico al que apela la teóloga musulmana para defender la igualdad entre hombres y mujeres en el texto sagrado es la idea de la dualidad de lo creado. Hombres y mujeres poseen igual significación como parte de la", "coinciden en que el libro sagrado establece y defiende la justicia absoluta de Dios como atributo divino, que debe traducirse en la práctica de la justiencia en las relaciones sociales y económicas. Cabe destacar a este respecto la hermenéutica", "Esas cuatro categorías que hoy definen a un feminismo post o trax occidental. La categoría de etnia, de clase social y de género. Sin embargo en la práctica el principio de equidad se incumple al reconocer derechos absolutos a los hombres", "Amina constata tal incumplimiento en el diferente valor que los comentaristas varones conceden a la voz masculina y femenina de Dios. Relacionan la voz", "receptiva, la ternura, etcétera. En este caso, la justicia divina resulta inequitativa y discriminatoria en perjuicio de la mujer. Precisamente por eso para revertir tal inequidad es necesario reconocer el mismo valor a ambas voces. Amina observa con preocupación cómo en el imaginario colectivo", "tanto dentro como fuera del Islam, está muy arraigada la idea estática de un Islam conservador que no admite cambios. Para superar esta imagen cree necesario distinguir entre cultura musulmana, textos islámicos y ley islánica", "la concepción estática sobre la religión musulmana y su confinamiento en un sistema rígido e inmutable. Y a partir de ahí, iniciar una hermenéutica inclusiva de género que descubra que las mujeres son sujetos morales que mantienen una relación directa con Dios. En esa dirección va su segunda gran obra", "gran obra que se titula En el interior del yihad de género, la reforma de las mujeres en el islam. Ninguno de los libros de Amina Wadud están traducidos al castellano. Yo voy a pedir los derechos de traducción y de publicación para editarlos en la colección Diaspora que dirijo en la editorial Piran Loblán.", "Bueno, pues en esa obra propone una yihad de las mujeres por la justicia y la inclusión de género dentro de la comunidad islámica global. Les puede sorprender lo de una yihat de la justencia social y de la igualdad de gígeno, pero claro que operamos con el imaginario social por las malas traducciones del Corán", "identificamos yihad con guerra santa cuando yihad es una palabra que significa esfuerzo, esfuerzo por la propia perfección en el camino hacia Dios y lucha contra el egoísmo incluso creo que se puede hablar de un yihad colectivo", "comunitario por la justicia. Y en ese sentido, su propuesta de una yihad se entiende como una lucha no violenta. Y este libro aborda algunos de los principales problemas a los que se enfrentan las mujeres musulmanas hoy,", "Y también lo que pretende es cambiar precisamente el estatus de las mujeres dentro del Islam, que considera una tarea difícil pero revolucionaria y muy urgente.", "que el Corán legitima y justifica en ese momento histórico. Y, en concreto, dice que habría que rechazar la práctica de la esclavitud y la práctica que pueden manifestar algunos textos de la violencia contra las mujeres. Son lo que llama Philip Treibold los textos", "¿Qué te recuerdas? Bueno, pues de alguna manera fíjense la relación tan estrecha. Yo no sé si ni siquiera se conocen unas a otras. Sospecho que no, pero acaso sí y esa relación tanestrecha en su hermenéutica y en su crítica llegando incluso a decir no y a rechazar determinados textos que para la ortodoxia musulmana son considerados palabra de Dios.", "Y ahí, claro, ¿cuál es la clave? De que sin negar que son palabras de Dios, esos textos pueden ser cuestionados. Sencillamente, que la palabra de Dios se traduce en un lenguaje humano dentro de un determinado momento histórico que para nada se corresponde con los momentos históricos posteriores en los que se va a leer el texto.", "Y precisamente este cambio de estatus de las mujeres que se propone con esta hermenéutica coránica feminista Amina Wadud es desarrollada en un libro homenaje que le dedicaron el año 2012, cuando cumplió 60 años,", "El honor del trabajo y de la vida de Amina Guadut. Y ese texto, fíjense, ese libro se inicia con estas palabras de la propia Amina. Escucha nuestra canción y cuando las palabras sean familiares sigue cantando. Para los nuestros el silencio ha sido demasiadas veces el que ha sustentado y alimentado nuestros principios.", "A partir de ahora, mujeres musulmanas tomemos la palabra, tomemos el protagonismo. ¿A qué le recuerda esta idea del canto al que se refiere? Para que escuchen la canción de las mujeres.", "Y se había formado un grupo de mujeres festivas que iban acompañando el proceso de liberación a través de los diferentes instrumentos musicales. En fin, aquí terminaría para expresarles como para mí ha sido pues un descubrimiento oceánico el encuentro con esta mujer así como con otras muchas mujeres.", "muchas feministas musulmanas y sería muy importante que igual que yo estoy desarrollando juntamente con otros colegas, hombres y mujeres musulmanes el proyecto de una teología islamo cristiana de la liberación", "esa alianza y esa convergencia a través de un encuentro entre teólogas, feministas, judías, cristianas y musulmanas que en realidad tienen un elemento común que es el texto sagrado, la Biblia hebrea, la Biblia cristiana y el Corán. Porque claro aquí, y con esto termino, se produce una especie de falta de reconocimiento.", "El judaísmo, por ejemplo, solo reconoce a los profetas de Israel. El cristianismo, ¿a quién reconoces? A los profetos de Israel y a Jesús de Nazaret. Pero, ¿qué hacen con los profetas de Israel? Instrumentalizarlos y presentarlos como los que anticipan a Cristo y los que anuncian la llegada de Cristo. Eso es una clarísima manipulación desde el punto de vista hermenéutico.", "de vista hermenéutico. Pero yo creo que quien mejor representa ese reconocimiento de la continuidad de las revelaciones judía y cristiana y musulmana es el Corán, el propio Corán dirá que reconocerá a todos los profetas", "A diferencia de que en el caso de Mahoma dirá que es el final de toda la profecía. Bueno, pues muchas gracias por haber seguido, espero que con interés esta exposición y si les he abierto algún horizonte nuevo, pues estoy encantado y en cualquier caso podemos ahora tener un diálogo sobre este tema y otros temas que les parezcan importantes relacionados con la teología.", "la teología feminista tanto en el Islam, en el judaísmo como en el cristianismo. Muchas gracias.", "que él está en Marajó, en Brasil. Dice que es de Argentina y dice En América Latina sabemos muy poco de la diversidad del Islam y de las luchas que se dan contra las opresiones al interior de los islamismos. Y sí coincido con él. Ustedes en España creo que tienen el tema más cercano, más familiarizado, sobre todo en algunos ambientes. De verdad que sí. Además me encanta el recorrido que haces.", "haces, siempre nos citas pues autoras para ver también más este panorama y los libros de ellas. Disculpa un segundo Marisa porque tengo que cargar la computadora. Por supuesto Juan José. No te preocupes Juan José", "paso después para que ustedes, gente que nos está acompañando a través de Zoom, quienes quieran plantear su comentario o pregunta ya por aquí demos una mano. Nos da mucho gusto Miriam en un momento le daremos la palabra y también pues a la gente que no sigue a través del Facebook Live les invitamos a escribir sus comentarios o preguntas pues para poder entre todos", "Y así como dices Marisa, quizá en América Latina o en México por ejemplo hablando yo desde mi propio contexto pues tenemos como muy lejanas estas experiencias islámicas ¿no? Sin embargo es fundamental leer y aprender para poder tener una mirada crítica yo creo ¿no?. Aquí hemos puesto varios temas que nos han", "Hemos puesto varios textos en el chat y también tanto de Facebook como del Zoom para que realmente vayamos leyendo todo esto que nos fue platicando Juan José Tamayo, ¿no? Y nos acercando a esta mujer maravillosa. Pero otras tantas que están haciendo una incursión y muchas veces peligrosa y transgresora porque realmente vemos lo que sucede en países como Irán.", "En donde si quieres emitir una voz diferente a la fundamentalista o a la ortodoxa, que es la obligada, pues puede ser que no te vaya nada bien.", "que se han conectado y el interés que han mostrado además a través de esta dinámica de Juan José y de los comentarios en el chat. Ahora sí, aquí tenemos una pregunta, Marisa, no sé si querías plantear. No, comentar lo que ahorita como separó Juan José a conectar su computadora quería yo decir esto y apuntalar lo que acabas de decir", "aunque haya una distancia geográfica para nosotros en América Latina, pero esta necesidad de abrir a un diálogo intercultural e interreligioso. Las tres religiones monoteístas y efectivamente por esto que nos has platicado Juan José vemos las intuiciones de estas hermenéuticas feministas", "Y también el horror que nos dices de la teóloga judía. En fin, cómo las mujeres con esta intuición y el estudio y la profundización en los textos bíblicos, coránicos y de la Torah realmente se dan cuenta que las mujeres hemos estado presentes, han estado presentES en estos textos sagrados y cómo ha sido estas patologías y esta exclusión a través de las interpretaciones", "Bueno, muchísimas gracias Marisa. Un gran saludo al profesor Juan José Tamayo desde aquí, desde Venezuela y agradecerle a todos los que nos han acompañado en este proceso de investigación.", "Y agradecer a la gente tras las huellas de Sofía poder abrir este espacio para enterarnos de cosas que se están haciendo y desde hace muchas décadas.", "que pudiésemos estar teniendo desde América Latina y sobre todo con países como los nuestros llenos de problemáticas sociales, políticas económicas ambientales. Y pienso que puede enriquecer el diálogo interreligioso, puede enriquecer las miradas que estamos teniendo para que tengamos una humanidad más acorde a lo que", "a lo que podemos estar entendiendo hasta los momentos. Yo pienso que usted nos pudiese ampliar un poco esas ventajas, esos beneficios que tiene el diálogo con toda esta hermenéutica feminista desde el Corán. Gracias. Muchas gracias Miriam. Muy interesante esa sugerencia. José, dale saludo mío.", "Saludos. Juan José, Dios te bendiga, te habla Oeste Maracaibo, Venezuela. ¿Cómo estás? Dios te vendiga. Bueno, pues a ti también.", "Es decir, tendríamos que elaborar una especie de hermenéutica interreligiosa feminista. Y eso yo creo que todavía no existe dentro del diálogo interreligioso, intercultural e interecnico.", "Y la primera clave, sin duda ninguna, es la hermenéutica frente al fundamentalismo.", "están bloqueando los sectores más integristas, que es todo lo que se refiere a las mujeres. Así como es verdad que hay otros textos sobre otros temas, pues no sé, sobre la violencia, sobre el tema de la mujer, sobre los derechos humanos, etcétera, en el que se ha avanzado bastante aquellos textos que dentro de los libros sagrados son contrarios a las", "a las mujeres y son machistas, patriarcales y androcéntricos esos son intocables es decir eso se consideran palabra de Dios en un sentido literal o sea que en esos textos se aplica el fundamentalismo ¿y el fundamentalismó? ¿en qué consiste? En considerar que el único sentido que tiene un texto es el literal", "para todo tiempo y lugar, tiene un carácter y un componente jurídico obligado y por tanto la idea de la inferiorización, la discriminación y la violencia contra las mujeres es algo incluso querido por el propio creador. Y ahí es donde yo creo que hay que trabajar, pasar del fundamentalismo en los textos sobre las mujeres", "el último reducto del fundamentalismo a una hermenéutica integradora y a una de género. Y luego la teoría hermenáutica de Elizabeth Schiller-Fiorenza, ¿no? La llamada hermenética de la sospecha. Si tenemos que sospechar desde el primer momento como una tarea intelectual o sea no es la sospecta de que yo creo que... O yo a mí me parece que... No, no", "No, no. Sino que es la sospecha como diríamos en el lenguaje de Descartes la duda metódica cartesiana. Es decir, el método hermenéutico de los textos sagrados considerados palabra de Dios y que pertenecen a épocas históricas anteriores esa hermenética nos tiene que llevar al sospechar pero sospechado con una actitud de investigación", "No es la fecha esa de decir tengo la impresión, me parece. No, no. Sino la convicción de que esos textos deben ser reinterpretados desde la perspectiva de los derechos humanos, de la defensa de la naturaleza, de las igualdad de hombres y mujeres, la no discriminación, etcétera, etcÉtera. Por tanto, totalmente de acuerdo. Tendríamos que trabajar en la hermenéutica", "No sé si es una idea que la comparten ustedes, de que la lectura fundamentalista de los sectores integristas es sobre todo en los textos en los que aparece la discriminación de las mujeres. Y claro, yo creo con todos los respetos y aún valorando mucho el compromiso del Papa Francisco en defensa de la justicia,", "Por los pobres en la crítica del neoliberalismo. Sin embargo, cuando se trata del tema del feminismo enseguida hace matizaciones. Recientemente creo que ha nombrado a dos mujeres, dos dicasterios romanos como subsecretarias y ha dicho cuidado que esto nada tiene que ver con el feminismo.", "Y precisamente lo que el feminismo demanda es la paridad en la representación en los ámbitos de poder. ¿O recuerdan cuando, en uno de los sínodos, me parece que fue el último, invitó a dictar una conferencia a una mujer? Entonces, bueno, pues lógicamente valoramos muy positivamente ese compromiso y esa elección.", "Cuando a la papa le llegan estas informaciones, dice bueno, no crean ustedes que la he invitado por razones feministas porque en realidad el feminismo es como un machismo con faldas. Dense cuenta de que siempre que se plantea el problema de las mujeres siempre se tiene que hacer matizaciones para seguir marginándolas en los diferentes ámbitos y nosotros claro,", "Claro, nosotros y nosotras quienes estamos aquí por el interés del feminismo tenemos que ser vanguardia. Tan generosamente Andrea me ha definido como vanguardía. Bueno pues esa vanguarda o ese vanguardismo lo remito a vosotros y a vosotras.", "Y por eso lleva razón Aminah Guadut y esa idea quiero transmitirosla para el estudio de los textos de la Biblia hebrea y la Biliblias cristiana. Decir no, pero ¿cómo se va a decir no? A un texto revelado, ¿cómo", "Contra la vida de las mujeres, contra la igualdad, etcétera. No sé si he contestado Miriam a tu pregunta.", "El, el, el. Chitira no sé si quieras prender tu micrófono y dice pues al final es él ¿no? Entonces ahí hay también una definición masculina o patriarcal. Chirira si quieres extender tu comentario adelante. Sí muchas gracias por la oportunidad de participar. Saludarlo señor José Tamayo lo conocí acá en Los Ángeles California hace algunos 10 años o tal vez un poco más.", "poco más. Mencionaba usted de que en el libro los nombres son menos patriarcales, sin embargo la connotación es patriarcal o es masculina porque dice él divino, ese era mi comentario. O sea si lo puede aclarar un poquito más. Claro con mucho gusto,", "Y que son cualidades positivas de los seres humanos aplicados a Dios, como ya no es el violento, no es la omnipotente, no ese omnipresente, sino que hace referencia a estas cualidades. La compasión por ejemplo es otro de los atributos pero es verdad", "Corán en el texto, que es un texto que está fijado desde muy pronto después de la muerte. Fíjense cuando se fija el texto de la Biblia cristiana. Al caso dos siglos después de La Muerte de Jesús y sin embargo el texto coránico se fiza 20 o 22 años después de", "atributos que se aplican a Alá, tienen ese componente más bien de valores solidarios, de defensa de la justicia, de la generosidad, etc. Sin embargo es verdad que están formulados de manera masculina y lo que pasa es que algunas teólogas he podido leer esta mañana para preparar esta conferencia", "Y no reducirme solo a Mina Wadud, pues dicen que ese masculino en el caso del idioma del árabe es un masculino inclusivo y precisamente por eso van a decir que no son excluidas las mujeres del ámbito y del protagonismo de la oración comunitaria porque aun cuando el texto coránico hable de", "Si se habla de, hable el masculino son, se puede incluir. Bueno yo creo que eso es una estrategia no muy acertada para de alguna manera pues no tener la hermenéutica de la sospecha de que es un texto escrito en lenguaje masculino.", "A hombres y mujeres cuando afirma Dios ha preparado justa recompensa para los creyentes y las creyentas, los seguidores y las seguidoras,", "Y ese componente masculino y también deben ser cuestionados desde el punto de vista, desde una hermenéutica feminista.", "dicho que tienes un compromiso pues ya en breve Juan José y no quisiéramos que llegaras tarde tampoco a él, no queremos abusar de tu tiempo. No pero todavía puedo estar cinco minutos más. Sí solamente en Facebook Marisa tenemos aquí de Verónica Rosoto nuestra gran amiga y seguidora dice por supuesto Juan José creo que la hermenéutica de la sospecha ya debe ser tomada como una herramienta exegética y hermenêutica necesaria ante este mundo", "Este mundo que exige hacer avanzar la teología, porque estamos muy lejos todavía de responder a fuertes realidades y necesidades con las que se enfrenta la humanidad. Esto dice Verónica y ahora Bárbara Peña dice el miedo de cuestionar el patriarcado es miedo a perder el poder. Después Licec García agradece y Marcelo Fabiano Luna dice hubo un gran silencio", "hubo un gran silencio de las izquierdas en América Latina sobre la represión en Irán. El canal venezolano Telesur nunca publicó nada, complicidades de la izquierda blanca colonial y patriarcal esto nos dice Marcelo Fabián Luna ¿qué nos comentas Juan José? ¿Qué opinas? Me parece muy triste", "solidaria de todo punto, porque siempre que se atenta contra la vida lo que hay que hacer es ponerse en vanguardia de defensa de la vida. Aquí en Madrid por ejemplo pues yo he participado ya en varias manifestaciones ante la embajada de Irán y aquí sí hay mucha conciencia y yo", "Uno, un curso sobre masculinidades y desde que se produce el asesinato estamos constantemente enviando mensajes y expresando nuestra denuncia y apoyando todas esas manifestaciones.", "de los pocos varones que forman parte de ese grupo clásicas y modernas, y estamos constantemente lanzando mensajes de denuncia. Yo tengo una amiga iraní con la que tengo una relación muy estrecha", "Y denuncia esta situación. Ella es catedrática y me imagino que tendrá miedo, pero siempre que se atenta contra la vida, sea la vida de las personas, muy especialmente la vida del mundo,", "el grito del pobre, el grato de la tierra. Pues en este caso es ecología eco-humana, fraterno sororal, el Grito en defensa de la vida de las mujeres que es la que más amenazada está y de manera especial. Y claro no solamente la denuncia del asesinato policial sino luego todas las muertes que está produciendo la represión contra las manifestaciones ya", "Ya llevamos más de 100 muertes y claro, eso es totalmente inaceptable, inadmisible. Y por eso yo creo que ustedes también deberían fomentar esa sensibilidad solidaria denunciando esa agresión contra la vida de las mujeres y aplicando ese principio de que la vida es sagrada.", "En este momento concreto y atentar contra la vida de las mujeres es atentar eh contra la", "Y recordaba este documento que fue y sigue siendo muy significativo para la hermenéutica bíblica, que es justamente sobre los métodos de hermenésticos. Un documento", "ejes y feministas se apoya sobre una posición tomada, se expone a interpretar los textos bíblicos de modo tendencioso y por tanto discutible. Lo leí textualmente. Y cada vez que leo ese texto pienso cómo expresa claramente un posicionamiento masculino patriarcal porque no dice algo parecido de ninguno de los otros métodos", "fuera del método fundamentalista, que obviamente la lectura es fundamentalista de los otros. Si bien va diciendo cosas positivas, este es muy fuerte cuando dice que es una lectura tendenciosa porque lo hacemos las mujeres, es tendencioso. Me parece que seguir diciéndonos bueno, seguimos haciendo una lectora desde un posicionamiento feminista", "feminista lleva también a enriquecer lecturas que siempre se hicieron solamente desde una perspectiva hegemónica. Bueno, gracias. Sí, Lucía, yo estoy de acuerdo con que la hermenéutica feminista es una hermenética tendenciosa e integradora de las mujeres como alternativa a la hermanética patriarcal que es excluyente de las", "Es decir, todas las hermenéuticas son tendenciosas porque parten de un principio que puede ser o integrador e inclusivo o excluyente como el caso de la hermenética patriarcal. En el fondo ese documento que usted dice es un ejemplo claro de apuesta por textos exegéticos o hermencéuticos totalmente patriarcales.", "Yo le hago una sugerencia que veo que la sigue en relación con los textos oficiales del Magisterio Eclesiástico. Yo los leo y tengo que decirles que aunque son muy aburridos y muy pesados, disfruto con ellos. ¿Por qué? Porque los lego críticamente y como en determinados temas que tratan creo que sé más que ellos, pues esa crítica lo que hace es desmontar sus argumentaciones", "Sus argumentaciones que son claramente tendenciosas y patriarcales jerárquico-piramidales. Y si le sirve, ¿leemos los documentos del magisterio? Claro que sí que hay que leerlos, pero hay que leerlos distanciada y críticamente porque no son palabra de Dios por muy del papa que sean o de un obispo que tenga toda la autoridad que se quiera dar él a sí mismo.", "La autoridad de esos textos es la autoridad De aquellas personas que los han elaborado Y que no han consultado con Personas que son competentes en el tema Por tanto, es una autoridad para mí enormemente Limitada que yo cuestiono Muchísimas gracias Pues muchas gracias Juan José También te están diciendo aquí a través de Facebook", "a abordar y sobre todo a estudiar, a profundizar en ellos. No sé si hubiera... Si quieres, perdón me puedes facilitar el contacto con Martelo Fabián me lo facilitas por WhatsApp y ya pues nos ponemos en contacto Bueno, a ver si Marisa lo puedes contactar por Facebook y le pedimos su correo para que nos lo mande particularmente no sé si hay alguna otra pregunta inquietud Marisa", "Pues eso no veía, no veo yo también estaba buscando a alguien más en Facebook. Veía ese comentario y ahora por aquí pues Lucio Fabián perdón Lucio Rubén Blanco nos dice que es excelente como siempre hermano Tamayo saludo de Aete bendiciones y bueno él siempre pone al final de sus comentarios si la vida vencerá entonces pues creo que no vemos más comentarios ni preguntas", "Le voy a dar una buena noticia a Lucio, se llama Lucio ¿verdad? Estaré en Lima compartiendo con AETE que es una facultad de teología evangélica compartiendo", "que eran tres viajes en tres semanas y claro, la resistencia de una persona que cumple ya mañana 76 años es muy limitada. Y para que ustedes lo sepan por si les interesa va a haber un evento organizado por Cristina Sada", "grata a senadora, creo en una de las elecciones anteriores. Ella ha organizado un monográfico sobre la pederastia en la iglesia y me ha invitado a que asista personalmente pero no me va a ser posible por eso, por la confluencia de los tres viajes en tan poco tiempo, pero voy a tener una conferencia sobre este tema. La voy a titular por si alguien le interesa, que la tengo escrita", "Juan José, nos tienes que mandar la información de ese congreso o de esa conferencia que va a haber para que podamos también conectarnos y difundir esa información. Si quieres compartir el texto después, pues adelante, bienvenido, que nosotros se lo hacemos llegar a toda la gente. Y mientras... También decirle", "También decirles que hemos hecho un drive donde hemos puesto algunos de los textos que Juan José nos iba mencionando para que si quieren seguir leyendo, profundizando sobre el tema pues tengan un lugar donde arrancar a leer. Tienen este texto que acabo de recibir El Islam y las Mujeres Cuestiones Controvertidas de Asma Lanrabet", "marroquí. Y luego, bueno perdón por la publicidad de un texto mío pero también en la televisión aunque sea la pública hay unos segundos de publicidad este libro por si les pudiera interesar Islam, Política Sociedad y Feminismo que es un curso de verano que yo dicté en la Universidad Internacional", "siete u ocho conferencias que se dictaron, de las cuales cinco conferencias son de perspectiva feminista dentro del Islam. Pues muy interesante Juan José, habrá que comprarlo y bueno seguir leyendo y profundizando en este tema para tener esta mirada crítica y sobre todo mantenernos en la hermenéutica de la sospecha. Marisa te doy la palabra.", "Lo que nos queda es, aunque no quisiéramos concluir el tema, pues da para mucho más y sabes que siempre tiene las puertas de este tu espacio tras las huellas de Sofía abiertas para ti, para escucharte, para que sigas poniéndonos al día.", "a empezar de verdad a leer e informarnos más en esta parte pues de América Latina, de México, en lo que a nosotras respecta. Juan José te deseamos mucho éxito en tus futuros proyectos, tus viajes como siempre te seguimos manténnos informado por favor para promoverlo ya sabes que eso pues te admiramos y estamos siguiendo también tu sabiduría la sabiduria que nos compartes a todas y a todos", "Gracias a todas y a todos. Este es el propósito también de estas webinars, de estas sesiones que tenemos aquí entre las huellas de Sofía Juan José. También nos piden si puede enseñar otra vez tu libro, Juan José, si lo subes un poquito para que vean el título. Sí, que no se ve. Islam, sociedad política y feminismo.", "Y también, por favor, si os ha gustado el vídeo, dadle a like y compartidlo con vuestros amigos.", "huellas del Dios patriarcal. Muchas gracias. Muchísimas gracias y feliz cumpleaños mañana. Muy bien. A cada uno de ustedes por acompañarnos hasta el fin, por esta oportunidad. Muchisimas gracias. Nos vemos el próximo jueves con un webinar muy interesante también. Que estén muy bien. ¿Cuánta gente ha participado? Pues en este más de 20, ¿verdad Marisa?", "Llegamos a 30 casi. Y luego por Facebook también se han reunido bastantes personas. Muchísimas gracias Juan José. Un abrazo. Felicidades. Gracias." ]
amina_wadud/Amina Wadud _ Imam Perempuan Solat Jumaat _ Dr MAZ_iUn5XzfGH0E&pp=ygURQW1pbmEgV2FkdWQgaXNsYW0%3D_1742926536.opus	[ "Aminah Wadud sakan dia. Dia pergi buat Imam Jumaat. Hadis tu dia kata, dia pergi kias. Dia kias! Dia kata bukan ada Nabi larang? Kalau nak buat kaedah Nabi tak larang ibadat ni kalau nak... Ya apa duk kalut apa ada Nami larang?! Aminahu waduk betul ye. Pasal apa Aminhu waduh salah? Dua tiga hari ini ada geng-geng yang duduk bincang pasal Islam liberal. Semalam saya sebut sama juga dalam podcast dengan Ustaz Ahmad.", "Lebih daripada Ustazah Boleh cakap Arab Dia main satu idea Kerana nak menjadikan Islam ni Tak nampak ada discrimination Ada penindasan kepada Islam discriminate Perempuan, dia tak nak Islam, dia nak tunjuk Kononnya pada Barat Bahawasanya Islam ini sama Lelaki dan perempuan Islam layan sama So untuk membuktikan hal itu Dia buat apa?", "Dia jadi imam semayang Jumaat Tahun 2005 Aminah Wadud Dia buat semayangan Juma'an Dan dia jadi imaman Dan adalah Nak kata mangkak apa tak tahulah Tapi adalah Yang ikut dia Laki-laki yang ikutnya Dia tu imam Di belakang ada lelaki Semayan Juma'd Dialah baca khutbah Alasan dia Mana ada Nabi lah kan? Dan kemudian Dia berhujah dengan hadis Yang diruayatkan oleh Abu Dawud Ruayatkin juga oleh Ibn Khuzai", "Ibn Khuzaimah. Ibn Kuzaimahl, Abu Dawud. Meriwayatkan bahawasanya Nabi telah membenarkan kepada Umm Warakah untuk menjadi imam di rumah dia. Nabi memerintahkan dia untuk menjadi imam bagi orang di rumahnya. Umar Warakah ni perempuan lah. Dan bagi Umar warakah ni seorang muazzin. Tukang azan", "tukang azan lelaki yang syekhan kabira, orang lelakituah. Dia pun dengan seorang hamba lelki dan seorang ambar perempuan jadi makmum di belakang umur warakah, di rumah umur Warakah dalam riwayat ini. Riwayat seperti mana disebut oleh As-Sana'ani di dalam Subulus Shalam. Riwayaat ini telah digunakan, telah dijadikan dalil", "Perempuan boleh menjadi imam di rumah dia Nak mudah Tuan-tuan jadi imam Perempuang Perempua jadi iman Ada anak lelaki kecil Kalau sekolah menengah Atau ikut kot belakang Mak dia lagi elok lagi Di bacaan Dia ikut kat belakangan Boleh ataupun tak Mereka kata boleh Selagi mana rumah mereka Pendapat ini pendapat Abu Saw Ini alim besar Murid aliman musyafi'i Ketika Aliman Syafiq ni di Baghdad", "Pendapat Al-Muzani. Murid kanan Imam Syafi'i. Pusar. Pendapat At-Tabari. Dan kata As-San'a. Jumur majoriti para ulama tak setuju. Jadi pendapat ni ada minoriti, ada pendapat. Tapi yang mereka sepakat yang kata ada pendapan tu semayang di mana? Di rumah. Katalah anak lelaki tuan-tuan ni perempuan ni tak teramana. Perempuan jadi imam dia pergi ikut sekolah rendah juga umur dah 12 tahun ikut mak dia.", "Atau ikut mak dia kat belakang. Dia lelaki. Pada pendapat ni, kata boleh. Di rumah dia. Aminah wadud sakan dia. Dia pergi buat imam jumat. Dia buat iman jumat? Ada orang yang ikut dia. Kata bukan Nabi... Ada hadis tu dia kata. Dia pilih kias. Dia kias! Dia kata bukan ada Nabi larang. Kalau nak buat kaedah Nabi tak larang ibadat ni kalau nak... Yang apa duk kalut apa ada Nabil larang? Aminahu waduk tu eh. Kenapa Aminhu waduh salah? Sebab Nabi", "Tak pernah pun bagi mana-mana wanita jadi imam Jumaat. Nabi wafat, isteri Nabi Aisyah. Nami wafal, iseri Nabi Ummus Salama. Nomi wafan, isteris-isteri Nabi dan sahabiat yang lebih alim mengetahui agama. Tak pernahpun mereka ini dihormati, disanjung oleh para sahabat. Dinamakan dengan Ummul Mu'minin. Ibu orang Umma Hatul Mu'Minin. EBU-EBU Orang Beriman. Tak Pernah Mereka Dilantik Menjadi Imam Semain Juma'at. Tak Penuh Dipahami Oleh Nabi", "baik, bukan buat tak baik. Kalau nak pakai kaedah bid'an hasana tu rosak. Pasal buat tak boleh? Pasal Nabi tak pernah buat memang ada hadis wanita tak boleh jadi imam lelaki tapi hadis itu Ibrahim ibn Majah kita baca dalam bulurul maram nanti kita akan jumpa hadis tu daif larangan tu daib dia tak ada larangan yang sahih sebab tu kita kata jangan", "Jangan mereka dalam badan. Kalau nak bagi reka, boleh reka banyak. Bila Maitai Aminah Wadud, dia pun tak puas hati pula. Apa punya teruk perempuan jadi imam? Dia pun tak kata tak apa-apa. Jadi imam bukan dia berjoget. Kenapa tak boleh? Kenapa bantar? Mana ada macam itu? Kenapanya mana ada? Tak ada pun kirabidah sana lah. Oh, dia penuh tak mahu jawab. Jawapannya tak ada kerana itu bukan cara ibadat jumat Nabi Muhammad SAW.", "Siapa yang mengadakan dalam urusan kami ini benda yang tak masuk daripadanya, dia ditolak. Itu saja. Kalau tidak, hampa bolehkan untuk diri hampam, hama tak bolehkan buat diri orang lain. Wallahu'alam." ]
amina_wadud/amina wadud_ imam perempuan yang memperjuangkan ke_SxEUu8_dbGE&pp=ygURQW1pbmEgV2FkdWQgaXNsYW0%3D_1742944389.opus	[ "Coming through the door of Islam, you know when I stepped through that door really the whole entire universe opened up to me. It is not possible for me to continue to be Muslim without the love that I have experienced as a Muslim.", "He raised me on the God of love, so I never had a negative experience that somehow I needed to find some other option. But I was very much interested in religious diversity, so by sophomore year in university I was practicing Buddhism and that's when I started my still ongoing practice of meditation.", "of Islam, I thought you know why not try this. I didn't know really that it was a lifetime commitment. People used to accuse me of being from the West and I'm like well Allah is Lord", "the East and the West, I don't understand why that would make a difference. That again was liberating for me because people are still grappling. You know I'm gonna celebrate being 70 years old this year.", "I am watching Inventing Anna and I'm watching... Professor Wadud's sermon was about salah or prayer but the protesters outside say they disagree with a woman needing prayers for a mixed congregation. But, the organizers defend their choice of speaker.", "I love to be loving, I love being loved and of course I love the beloved Allah. So no, I don't want to be controversial however I have also recognized that I find certain aspects of human well-being, dignity, justice respect reciprocity as unconditional", "full human dignity, I tend to sort of stand my ground with regard to opposition to that.", "Meskipun ada pengalaman untuk wanita muslim dalam konteks budaya dan keluarga muslim yang mempercepat mereka, menghentikan hak mereka. Tapi bukan Islam sendiri yang menjadi masalah.", "Saya membahas tentang krimitika Quran dan saya menjadikan buku Prof. Amin Awadud sebagai salah satu dari yang saya kaji sehingga saya mengenal pemikiran-pemikiran beliau itu sejak tahun 90an Menghadirkan pemikiraan yang berbeda, pemikian yang beragam", "Jadi supaya mahasiswa itu tahu perbedaan-perbedaan. Jadi mahasISWA mempunyai alternatif pemikiran bertanya langsung kepada Bu Aminah ini yang saya kira kesempatan yang sangat mahal ya sedikit dikoreksi kamu kok bias kayak gitu ya Bu Amina kan gendernya kuat sekali tapi walaupun begitu beliau ingin saya itu nggak bias", "Mbak Amira itu walaupun dari Amerika tapi malah kayak orang Jawa kadang-kadang. Karena gak enaknya itu mbak, karena gak enakanya itu jadi saya tuh kadang malah gak ena sendiri kok malah saya asistennya tapi Mbak Abinanya gak enaka nyuruh-nyuruhnya gitu kan gak enek sayangnya jadi kayak gimana gitu.", "Harapannya semoga mereka bisa menemukan tempat untuk mereka bisa belajar banyak hal soal bagaimana keimanan mereka kepada Tuhan dan seksualitas mereka itu bukanlah hal yang bertolak belakang gitu loh.", "Walaupun kita tidak membuat KIS, queer muslim itu tetap ada. KIS ini bukan untuk mengedukasi orang, ayo jadi queer muslihm, bukan. Kita cuma memberikan tempat aja untuk mereka.", "and you've never talked to a Muslim woman about it. So we want to have the same thing with regard to KISS, we want make sure that there are voices at the table that include their self-representations of people who identify as queer. Islam has always been a rich intellectual tradition so the idea that certain conversations can be marked controversial so that means nobody should read or hear...that's problematic.", "I have arrived at the place where my relationship with Allah is so connected to Allah that none of this material stuff will distract from that devotion and that love.", "other aspects of sacred traditions as part of the repertoire, you know, of my life is no longer a threat to my Islam. I still believe la ilaha illallah wa muhammad rasulullah" ]
amina_wadud/Amina Wadud Interview at Guilford College_Gmyy-FaxQOA&pp=ygURQW1pbmEgV2FkdWQgaXNsYW0%3D_1742942790.opus	[ "I am Dr. Amini Wadud, a full professor of Islamic studies with the focus on gender and textual analysis. Because I am a Muslim by choice, the intellectual inquiry was a major part of my making a decision to become Muslim, and that intellectual inquiry", "intellectual inquiry continued into my early days of Islam. When I first came across the Quran in English, I was really very smitten by the book and really wanted to learn as much as I could about that book so I immersed myself in several years", "to think about graduate school and when I thought about graduate it was this interest in both the Quran and gender that sort of led me through courses that I chose and eventually to my dissertation topic which was about women in the Quran. So, it really started as my inspiration for becoming Muslim in the first place", "first place. Show of hands if you remember when saying Muslim feminists was considered a Nazi moron? Show of your hands if still think that it's a Nazi Moron? Okay, so what happened? In this presentation I want to run through the major turns in the road from the days", "and Islam wasn't universal enough to embrace feminisms. There have been more radical considerations of the possibilities of how to live as Muslim women in our time than at any other time. I would simply say that the tradition did not give us a record of women's responses", "and have like journals on the side. And what I learned in studying hermeneutics, and textual analysis led me to understand that the location of the reader makes a difference in how the text is being read, and therefore it makes a different who the reader is. And if you have a 1400 year plus intellectual tradition", "but you don't have a record of women's responses to that text until this last century, that maybe we are missing something from the story of how the text is understood and how it is applied. So it was a really simple kind of formula, and that is you can't distinguish between women and men which is throughout the system of analysis in Islam and Islamic thought. You can't", "say we're going to have a one-legged response to what is the book of guidance. A woman reading about Mary, the mother of Jesus when she's in labor may have a different understanding of what is written there than a man who has never also gone through labor so these simple things make a difference but", "subtle and profound differences. So the motivation was simply not finding my voice within this large corpus of material called tafsir or textual analysis. I think I lean towards the idea of being an example, I mean I want to demonstrate the kinds of things that I think are good and kind", "While at the one hand leading prayer is a special role in that only one person can do it at one time, I am trying to deconstruct the hegemony of ritual leadership. So I'm actually also encouraging other people", "to be a specialist that we share in our participation in this ritual. So, we should also share the responsibility of being a prayer leader which is again it's not a leadership role, it's a functional role within the context of a very elaborate ritual. To encourage the sharing means that I encourage other women and", "other circumstances simply to get to the point where it's not looked at as a kind of hierarchy." ]
amina_wadud/AMINA WADUD ISLAM AMERIKA_B2v9qETLw8Q&pp=ygURQW1pbmEgV2FkdWQgaXNsYW0%3D_1742934646.opus	[ "yaitu Amina Wadud di Amerika. Jadi kita masuk ke biografi Amina wadud, dia lahir pada 25 September 1954 nama aslinya yaitulah Mary Tisley yang dilahirkan di Bethesda Amerika Serikat beberapa jurnal tidak menyebutkan nama ayah dan ibunya siapa tapi ayahnya itu adalah seorang pendeta yang sangat taat", "orang buddha muslim Arab dari ber-ber Afrika kemudian semasa kecilnya Aminah Wadud ini dia membentuk agama Kristen yang kemudikan ketika umur 20 tahun, dia memeluk agamah Islam karena mendapat hidayat dan ketertarikannya pada Islam terkait dengan konsep keidilan dalam Islam yang mengantarkan untuk mengucapkan dua kalimah sahadat yang pada hari itu disebut dengan Thanksgiving Day", "D pada tahun 1972 jadi Aminah Wadud ini adalah seorang tokoh kontemporer dia pernah jadi Amina Wadid ini bisa digategorikan sebagai sosok perempuan kontroversial abad ini bagaimana tidak karena dia pernah mengimami sebuah sholat jumat yang tidak pernah dilakukan oleh", "perempuan biasanya yang ia lakukan itu pada tanggal 18 Maret 2005 di sebuah gereja Anglikan yang ada di Amerika Serikat kemudian perbuatan tersebut itu bukan dilakukan dalam satu kali saja tapi dia melakukannya lagi pada tanggel 17 Oktober 2008 di Oxford Oxford yang merupakan", "pusat pendidikan muslim sebagai pihak yang mengundang Aminah Wadud itu yang berdalih karena tidak ada larangan dalam Al-Quran yang menyebutkan menjadi imam sholat itu dilarang kemudian wadud sempat memberi hutbah singkat juga dalam sholah jum'ah yang diimami Aminahu wadu ini adalah aksi pembukaan untuk memulai konferensi dalam Islam", "Fenimisme yang digelar di Oxford Kemudian salah satu ulama besar Yaitu Syekh Yusuf Al-Kordowi Juga mengencam Keras atas aksi Aminah Wadid Tersebut dengan mengatakan sebagai Bith'ah yang mungkar Dari paparan tersebut kita akan lanjut Ke berikutnya Berikutnya yaitu Pendidikan Aminnah Wadido Yang pertama disitu ada Sebuah gambar yang pertama Yang atas itu adalah Universitas of Fancy", "of Pennsylvania yaitu dia mengencang pendidikan S1 pada tahun 1975 dan kemudian dilanjutkan untuk pasca-sardanya yang ada di Universitas of Michigan pada tahun 1982 ada Universitas Michigan ada di gambar yang kedua", "mijikan 2 juga pada tahun 1988 kemudian dilanjut karir yang ditempuh oleh Amina Wadud yaitu mulai dari Pindalevia di Islamic Community Center School pada tahun 1980 dan kemudIAN dia juga meneliti bahan-bahan pengajaran Bahasa Arab Universitas di Libya pada tahun 1996 selain itu", "Selain itu, dia juga asisten guru besar di Virginia Commonwealth University pada tahun 1992. Bukan itu saja, Aminah Wadud juga sebagai guru besar dalam beberapa universitas. Selain ini, dia menguasai berbagai macam bahasa asing yaitu ada delapan bahasa", "salah satunya bahasa Arab, Bahasa Inggris Jerman dan lainnya kemudian dia juga aktif di beberapa organisasi wanita yaitu Founder System Islam Malaysia karena dia sejak muda Amina Wadud ini dikenal aktif", "tentang terkait dengan perempuan kemudian karya Aminah Wadud tersebut juga merupakan sebuah kegelisahan intelektual yang dialami di alami wanita Aminnah Wadid mengenai ketidakadilan gender dalam masyarakatnya salah satu penyebabnya yaitu pengaruh ideologi, doktrin penafsiran Al-Quran yang dianggap biars patriarki oleh", "Aminah Wadud, yaitu karyanya salah satu tulisan yang kemudian dijadikan bahan gajian terhadap pemikiran fenimisme Quran dan woman pada tahun 1992. Aminat juga pernah membuat gigir para ulama, yaih itu salah satunya tadi Syekh Yusuf Al-Kordowi ketika ia menjadi khotib imam sholat jum'at di New York City pada tanggal 18 Maret 2005", "buku pada saat itu dan menjadikan tertipuah buku yaitu Aminah yang berjudul Inside the Gender, Jihad Women Reform in Islam pada 2006 sebagai macam artikel feminis atau kesetaraan gender. Kemudian kita lanjut dasar pemikiran Aminawadut bisa", "Jadi yang pertama menurut Charles Kurswan penelitian daripada peneliti Amina Wadud dipengaruhi historis pengalaman personal dan pergumulan para perempuan atau bias patriarki. Yang kedua pengalaban personal diskriminasi sebiak karena ia perembuan dan jenda. Dan kemudian yang ketiga Al-Quran secara adil menduduki lelaki dan pereumpuan itu setara.", "setara dan kemudian didasarkan pada gerangka fikir Faldur Rahman salah satu untuk menafsirkan ulang makna Al-Quran sesuai dengan konteks kekinian yang keempat prior text alat terbelakang resepsi dan kondisi dan itu sangatlah penting kita lanjut yaitu Hermenetika Fenimisme tentang kepemimpinan perempuan jadi Amina Watud ini ingin memunculkan metode baru dalam pembajaan teks", "dengan kondisi saat ini, dengan mempertahankan kesatuan dasar teks penetapan perempuan sebagai pemimpin pada itu di dalam Quran Surat An-Nisa ayat 34 Arijalu Qamuna Al-Anisa yang artinya dari Qamunah itu pemimpian laki-laki yang mampu memberikan nafkah kepada keluarga itu adalah seorang pemimpi tapi menurut Amina Wadud sendiri", "Pemimpin itu fungsional, maka perempuan bisa menjadi seorang pemimpin ketika laki-laki tidak mampu untuk menafkai keluarga atau dia pun tidak layak disebut sebagai pemimpim. Juga disebukan di dalam imam sholat tersebut, disebukkan di dalam hadis muwarokoh.", "yang bersejarah, yang Aminawadud ini lakoni bukan tanpa alasan. Aminowadud telah berupaya untuk memahami teks-teks Al-Quran dan hadis yang terkait dengan perempuan sesuai dengan perspektif pribadinya sendiri. Jadi, perembuan itu bersifat kontemporer. Keduanya adalah sama-sama memiliki hak dan kewajiban dalam tataran etika, agama", "Tatarang fungsi sosial Kita lanjut dalam analisis Terhadap pemikiran Aminah Wadud Itu bukan tanpa Alasan dia mempunyai Alasan Berani melakukan hal tersebut Karena yang pertama Ia tersentuh dengan kondisi Kaum perempuan yang secara Posisi selalu Dinomor duakan oleh Keadaan Dalam beberapa hal dan yang kedua Ada munculnya wacana kesetaraan", "kesetaraan gender yang didenggung-denggukan oleh kaum feminis dengan alasan ham sehingga memulai pemberontakan kaum perempuan untuk memahami ulang penafsiran, ulang ayat tersebut. Yang kemudian, yang ketiga ada aksi Aminawadu terseBut merupakan aksi yang bersifat lokal karena seperti tidak dibiarkan saja tanpa ada larangan malah diliput oleh banyak wartawan atau banyak media yang melibutnya", "Yang keempat, aksi Aminawadut tersebut termasuk tindakan berani yang dilakukan oleh aktivis perempuan karena selama 14 abad 1400 Islam itu tidak pernah adanya perbuatan terseBut. Kemudian dia berami mengimang sholat ju'at dan dihadapkan oleh laki-laki bahkan perepuan jadi secara campur gitu", "dia dianggap murtad dan bahkan dicat sinting oleh banyak kalangan kita lanjut ke catatan akhir jadi dalam catatan tersebut Amina pemikiran dan tindakan Amina Wadud melaksanakan seluas Jum'at bersejarah terse but tidak terlepas dari kegelisahan Amina terhadap kondisi kaum perempuan saat itu Waduda melihat perepuan selalu diidentikan dengan makhluk yang lemah atau second personality", "sejak zaman dahulu bahkan hingga saat ini juga Aminah itu merespon bahwa hal tersebut menawarkan metode hermeneutik Al-Quran yang disebut dengan tafsir tawid atau metode holistik sebagai hal ia akui sendiri bahwa metode terse but diambil secara pula dan menurut dari Faltu Rahman kemudian ajaran Islam secara normatif sangat menghargai", "menghargai perempuan ia terlihat dari berbagai Al-Quran memandang laki-laki perembuan itu secara ekual dengan menginplementasikan tafsir Tauhid ini dengan membaca Al-Kur'an terkait dengan hak-hak pereumpuan tidak lagi bias gender tapi dapat mengungkap prinsip fundamental jadi dalam Al-Quran seperti", "Aminah tidak hanya membicarakan, tapi dia dalam tataran teoretik akademik, Aminnah itu langsung mempraktekannya dengan menjadikan imam dan khotib pada pelaksanaan sholat jum'at yang bersejarah itu. Dan selanjutnya kesimpulan dari pembahasan tadi yaitu ada beberapa pokok pikiran deherumunatika fenimisme", "yaitu penafsiran yang tafsirannya itu mendasari pendekatan kebahasaan aspek, keadilan bahkan kesetaraan karena itu dia menolak pola penafsyiran klasik bias gender dan tidak berpihak kepada perempuan", "perempuan juga dapat bisa menjadi pemimpin alias Al-Quran itu tidak di dalam arkuan menurut Amina itu tidak menyebutkan bahwa melarangnya perembuan itu memimpin sebuah suatu organisasi jadi tidak ada alasan untuk melarangi dan penafsiran adat masih bersifat detabel", "ifadat tabel sekian materi kali ini terima kasih kepada pasca sarjana uinsalatiga wassalamualaikum warahmatullahi wabarakatuh" ]
amina_wadud/Amina Wadud_ _Islam_ Feminism and Human Rights__V4vGz7gln8k&pp=ygURQW1pbmEgV2FkdWQgaXNsYW0%3D_1742925509.opus	[ "I begin as always in the name of Allah whose grace I seek in this and all other matters. I want to thank Professor Berger for negotiating this possibility with me,", "I was actually here for another forum in Rotterdam and we were able to, with the hospitality of my brother Arnold Moore allow me to stay a bit longer so that I could speak with you. Hopefully we will have some interesting conversations afterwards. I'm actually going from a scripted paper which I have reduced to try to keep within the time", "and that means there may be some spaces that are a bit rough because I literally just reduced it. But I'm going to do that as a way to stay focused, because there's a lot that I want to cover. And the purpose of it really is to get to the place of a little bit of conversation about Islamic feminism which I am considering a methodology for the production", "and construction of new knowledge in living Islam. You will see that it will include critical reading of the classical intellectual canon of Islam, but with a lens that incorporates gender as a category of thought. Against the backdrop of the Arab Spring and radical changes that are going on in the Middle East this lecture focuses on Islam", "gender debates in Indonesia than in all of the Arabic, Farsi, Urdu and Turkish speaking countries combined. This globalization lens has special benefit when looking at the development of the Muslim women's movement it also helps to locate my work within that movement and grants it legitimacy I have worked on gender issues", "it had a name and before I could own the word feminism as appropriate for my work and perspective. I do not now nor have I ever lost sight of my aim to make certain articulations towards gender equality within the faith or from a faith perspective.", "in Islam had nothing to do with Western feminist movements because they tended to marginalize women of color, poor women and non-heterosexual women. My principal motivation in the gender debates is linked to my spiritual yearnings for God is bigger than any discourse acts in ways not fathomable to human beings at all", "if they choose not to respond to that living presence or reality. So this benevolence is not intended to offend, or be imposed on people who do not believe in God. I say this instead because it is important to my location and to focus on theological elements in the debates over women's empowerment in the context of Islam.", "until we're clear what we mean by Islam. Every discussion about Islam and women must begin with the meaning of the word Islam. People involved in the struggle for or against Islamic reform often operate on a presumption that there is a uniform agreement on the meaning", "sexuality, or in Islam you must wear hijab. The source of such abstractions is frequently not provided.\" One important development that the women's movement helped to forge in international discourse at the end of the 20th century was the distinction between Muslim cultures and Islamic primary sources, that is the Quran,", "law or fiqh. And it's funny because in trying to get people to move away from certain static notions of Islam, even people who are working in progressive Islamic circles tend to defer back to these kinds of conservative definitions when they're talking about Islam so they make themselves as a response", "what I'm trying to do is get Islam to be once again more dynamic. In the Quran, the word Islam and Muslim are both used with reference to an historical community and to a state or posture vis-à-vis all of creation – the posture of conscientious surrender to the harmony of the universe. Indeed, the Quran says that", "is harmonious, following a certain order with balance between its constituent parts. In all of my discussions about Islam and about Muslim women I build upon the definition of Islam encapsulated by it's most basic and fundamental principle Tauhid. There is no Islam without Tauheed. At it's", "matters of social justice, it refers to the more intensified form of its syntactical origin—the making of one from fragments. That is diversity or plurality. It could be then defined as unity. The social principle of Tawhid mandates a relationship between human beings of equality and reciprocity.", "Islam and women is what is the role of women in Islam? I work only on the basis of an understanding that the role a woman is to be a khalifa on the earth, a moral agent of Allah within the sacred order of balance and harmony in the universe. This teleology is confirmed by the Quranic passage,", "on the earth. Woman was not created as a byproduct of helpmate for or second class citizen to man. Furthermore, her agency is in a direct relationship to God unmitigated by men's agency or by family. This agency is to be manifest by actions fil ardh", "Standing up for justice and gender equality, working to reform asymmetrical gender policies, and toppling tyrannical practices and epistemologies are thus essential to an agent as part of the human-divine relationship. These aspects of justice work are all mandated by Allah and established by the prophetic sunnah. Coincidentally this is the same as the role of men in Islam.", "Women are human. They do not depend upon men for their humanity. It is given to them by Allah. While women have always been a part of the community, expected to conform to the development of Islam within that community, in the early development of the foundational paradigms of Islamic thought and practice", "the fundamental understanding of what is Islam. In fact, as the Muslim empire spread geographically and politically especially after the Abbasid period women's contributions to the fundamental canon of Islam would be further marginalized and ultimately silenced. This had a profound effect on the future of Islamic thought and in the establishment of both legitimacy and authority.", "history from our vantage point, we see a very minor role that women played in establishing the basic epistemology that would come to stand as authority or legitimacy. For example, in the 12th century, the famous and prolific scholar Ahmed al-Ghazali symbolized the agent, that is the khalifa, the agent in Islamic philosophical terms by comparison with", "the little blowing instrument. He even compared the number of orifices in the body with the number holes in the lute, totally disregarding that distinctive number of our offices in the female body from the male body. Today women are present and accounted for at every level of the community including the scholarly and ritual community. Women participate fully", "establishing new canon, constructing new traditions, forming new policies living in the present with a loving yet critical eye on the past and a conscious trajectory towards the future. This is proving to be a bit of a corrective for the asymmetry between women and men and Muslim communities. However we do not go about this without some contention", "perspectives, methods and objectives. This is natural inevitable and for the most part useful. What I will describe here is the historical evolution of three major perspectives regarding Islam and gender reform. The names i have given to each are also not necessarily confirmed by consensus either but", "will be self-explanatory and will facilitate discussion afterwards. Of course in our history there have always been some advocates for gender justice we go back maybe to the Prophet's time people like to mention one of the Prophet wives Umm Salama and after her interrogation of the prophet about", "Revelation was addressed, there was a verse revealed that was very explicitly inclusive indeed for all men and women who have rendered themselves unto Allah. For all truly devout men and all truly developed women, all women and men who are true to their word, all men, and women, who are patient in adversity etc., etc. So there is already a sense at which there is a dynamic but the voices were still", "number. So the point here is as if the Qur'an says that the Qur-an is addressed to both women and men, and it is especially in terms of its ultimate objective which is human guidance. And while the text is clear about this ultimate objective there are still many passages in the Qurr'an that address those who held greater privilege", "exclusively to men as male persons. Throughout the text there is an intricate balance between the speaker, Allah, the performance voice, the Prophet, the voice of those whose stories are told therein and those to whom the text speaks which is both the specific community living with the prophet and all of humankind. Despite evidence", "gender inequality. Today what we are experiencing is a mass movement of women and men against gender asymmetry as injustice. It matters very little if this injustice was established by intent or by accident of discrimination. The Muslim women's movements are also connected to certain global developments. Chief among these developments was the rise", "colonialism, and thus the rise of the nation-state as a consequence of for one thing certain nationalist movements. Unfortunately women were often not equal beneficiaries of the spoils of these new nationalist regiments. This is the place where the modern Muslim women's movement began in earnest. Like with", "Muslim women stood side by side with their men or with Muslim men to throw off the shackles of colonialism and build nationalist movements. At that time, most women's organizations were branches of larger nationalist organizations. Once the victory of independence was won it was not uncommon for women to be asked to return to the home and give up the ideas in the ideals of equal citizenship", "similar is starting to happen in terms of the aftermath of the Arab Spring. This would herald a new phase in women's activism that would be independent from the larger men or nationalist organizations for political, social economic and legal rights. As Margot Badran wrote, Women had a rude awakening when it became clear that liberal", "public life after nominal political independence. The Muslim women's movement then dates back to this rupture between the development of the notion of free and equal citizens, and the prohibition against women's full participation. The development of nation-state and end of colonialism was also the beginning", "regional or national realities against and within the context of realities in a world unlike one's own. Such global awareness is the root of pluralism. Our humanity today is clearly possible only with this sense of plurality. Pluralism includes the capacity to accept,", "from us. This acceptance reflects our own local realities without projecting these as the ultimate human concern for everyone. The ultimate human concerns is beyond narrow, local imagination and praxis even as it must be seen as a reflection of the ultimate. Thus our present time is not", "Our existing customs are not the only customs, our worldview is not the world view. These basic elements of pluralism become essential for the global women's movement. The first wave Muslim women's movements consisted of a kind of methodological overlap and also some repetitions all aligned with how the nation state would operate including personal status law or", "status law or family law, which would only be canonized after the colonial period. The first collective voices of gender reform were from well-to-do, well educated and often well traveled women who had seen firsthand that the world is not uniform. They stood up as Muslim women", "wave Muslim women's movement, the secular feminist and Islamist articulations of Muslim women liberation would develop into opposing camps. So at first there was a little bit more integration and then this development of an opposition which is important to think about. The secular Muslim feminist movement is premised upon the idea that religions are the cause of women's oppression", "Whether religion is relegated to a personal response or altogether irrelevant depends upon the religiosity of the individual. Deference is given unequivocally to international instruments as developed by the United Nations and ascribed as universal.", "and leaning towards so-called Western values, most women nevertheless recognize the need for support the principle of and work towards a new definition of universality in human rights. This discourse participates in the inherent conflict between women's rights and cultures. And according to Madhavi Sundar, but religion qua religion is less", "traditional legal constructions of this category. Premised on centuries-old Enlightenment compromise that justified reason in the public sphere by allowing deference to religious despotism in the private, human rights law continues to define religion in the 21st century as a sovereign extra-legal jurisdiction", "At the time of the establishment of the nation-state,", "opposing sides. One advocating a separation of the state from religion, who would begin to self-identify as secular and sometimes western, and the other constructing an unquestionable version of Islam as state and religion or state and faith. The term secular would morph from the simple separation into its more aggressive form.", "one that starts by marginalizing God or sometimes even announcing his death, placing the human at the center of the universe as its logo. This articulation of secularism would become even more coherent with the rise of the other outspoken public voice in favor of Islam which would grow into political Islam, that is the Islamist movement. Throwing off", "colonialism meant challenging the very aspects of the colonialist's worldview. The most uniform response to the problems related to the post-colonial Muslim context was a cry to return to the glorious past of the Islamic empire. With Islam as a solution, a new development emerged in the women's movement as well. Islam as", "is in fact an important aspect of the debate. But the question is, can we or should we go back to it? The merit of the call to return to Islam was that it is both authentic and authoritative. However as it continued, it moved to reject all other world views as un-Islamic.", "or of the time of the Prophet. The intent is to take the spirit of Islam and the soul of Muslim identity, to organize the politics of a new world order.\" Quote,", "They came to be suspicious of many traditions of Islamic thought and practice that developed through time, according to Omid Safi. The Islamist agenda is encapsulated within a cry for the return to Sharia.", "it was and is a hugely effective antithesis to secular ideas and authoritarian regimes. At the level of the general public, the cry for return to Sharia is generally reductionist collapsing the universal principles of Sharia with the juridical methods and mechanisms of implementation known as Sfik or the codes that have been produced by this Sfic", "is the path that leads to water, that is the source of all life. Thus it is universal, divine, sublime and an ideal. The goal of this ideal society or the Muqasid is justice. The more coherent definition of Islamic law that the Islamists are hoping to achieve is fiqh which is the efforts across Muslim history for understanding", "or simply jurisprudence. To distinguish between these two is crucial for debunking the claim that somehow if Muslim nation states were to establish Islamic law, then all problems would be solved. By toggling between the universal intent of Sharia which is justice and the human necessarily fallible thus subject to change mechanisms", "furthermore take license in condemning any who criticize their programs as if they are against Islam. Anyone who resists the establishment of their specific goals is deemed resistant to the implementation of the immutable divine order and even an unbeliever. However, Sharia cannot be implemented except through human procedural means", "has always been diverse, has always flexible. Thus this lack of uniformity which we can confirm even by today's modern existence of four major Sunni schools and at least one major Shia school means there is no such thing as pure and simple Islamic law. We are up against different realities", "of the continual relationship at an international level. There has yet to be a single system constructed by the Islamists that satisfies all the claims of Islamic authenticity and that fulfills all their objectives. In the nation-state, all policies are subject to public debate including from non-Muslims. Implementation can only occur by the will of the people", "people. People are open to disagree, however it is clear that whoever has the power to enforce their understanding of Sharia can and will coerce that understanding over all others even for matters of faith and individual consciousness. As Abdullah Yanaim says, Sharia principles cannot be enacted", "public policy solely on the grounds that they are believed to be part of Sharia. If such enactment and enforcement is attempted, the outcome will necessarily be the political will of the state and not the Islamic law of Islam. The fact that ruling elites sometimes make claims to legitimize their control over the state in the name of Islam does not mean that such claims are true.\"", "The Islamist debates are critical for the women's movement because it usually comes down to the establishment of archaic, pre-modern Muslim personal status law or family laws. In the time of the formulation of Muslim personal statuess law, Muslim families were unconditionally patriarchal. Women who followed the Islamist agenda promote", "without offering any analysis of what constitutes family and whether existing families are fulfilling the ideals deemed essential to that constitution. Any real crisis experienced in the family is instead simply charged as negligence of Islam. As such, these discussions become cyclical. The solution to family is Islam", "is Islam and failed families are un-Islamic. Although an important public role for women has also resulted within the Islamist agenda, women's unquestionable obedience to family in its primitive patriarchal form is still unquestioned. Consequently a bifurcation often occurs between women's public empowerment", "A pivotal moment in considering whose voices was most beneficial to the cause of Muslim women's well-being, liberation, autonomy and citizenship came in 1995 with the Beijing International Conference for Women. The Islamists who were present applauded the wisdom behind Islam's position on women. The more aggressive outspoken and certainly more aligned", "were also present and refused to yield ground to those they considered backward thinking. Nevertheless, in an attempt to coordinate our efforts nightly meetings were called for and these just turned into chaos. It was impossible to find any common ground and for some reason each side also felt that more was at stake", "to find some united agenda for all Muslim women present and for those women whom they claim to represent. Let's look at the larger context of the Beijing meetings. The purpose was to discuss the UN Convention for the Elimination of All Forms of Discrimination Against Women, or CEDAW.", "from all nation states and a larger goal to address gross inequalities between female and male citizens of the world. Muslim feminists are closely aligned to the secular trajectory of these international instruments. They are considered universal, and not subject to individual states. If there is any conflict as has been shown to be inevitable then Muslim women who hope", "and cultural injustices in the context of Muslim majority nation states must support the UN agendas, and reject the cries of the ultra-conservative religious. If the choice is between religion and human rights then human rights must reign. Religion must be kept out of the debates.\" To assume that religion would stay out of", "For one thing, such a response increased the fervor of the Islamists who also insisted that Islam and human rights are incompatible. For them there is an Islamic solution to everything whether the sources of this solution was explicit texts from the Quran or Sunnah developed by early jurist or past and present intellectuals or rendered by increasingly web-based media savvy ad hoc", "authorities whose interpretation rarely take adequate consideration of our complex current circumstances and live realities, still such solutions were seen as immutable, divine not subject to debate and superior to any human-made systems documents or international instruments. As if we could really implement God's law without people's intervention and interpretation", "interpretation. At the International Women's Conference, the animosity between those who advocated for international instruments as the sole method for advancing the cause of Muslim women were put face to face with those who advocate for an un-interrogated notion of Islam as their method. A third perspective was also present but it was in its nascent stage", "or implementable strategy, let alone coherent objectives. However most importantly it argued that the either-or dichotomy did not reflect the overwhelming majority of Muslim women. The idea that there must be either human rights or Islam was false. Surely there are challenges to be launched against", "human rights, but the goal is not to abandon them altogether. Rather, to read in the nuance quote, for human rights to be universal it must be integral to the culture and experiences of all societies everywhere. Human rights require validation in terms of values in each culture and in terms", "Most Muslim women then, as you can see, unquestionably identify with Islam. At the same time many Muslim women express concern over experiences of disjuncture between what is promoted as the ideal of Islam and their own lived realities.", "These lived realities were increasingly being made public. With so much attention, however the push to disavow Islam was no doubt confusing if not also confounding. Further clarification was needed to distinguish this third perspective from the Islamists because this third prospective also refused to disaval Islam. Personally I chose to identify myself by a two-part name", "name, pro-faith and pro-feminist. So pro-Islam and pro feminism. On the other hand this third perspective also critiqued certain practices and the underlying patriarchal structure in the development of Islamic canon and in Muslim cultures as such they were shunned by the Islamists", "This is when the secular feminist identity became most coherent. Before this time, with very few exceptions, Muslim women argued as Muslims maintaining a kind of allegiance to Islam albeit uninterrogated. With the rise of Islamism, this un-interrogated Islam took on political force. Those who had been developing along the lines", "more towards the left. Some were ambiguous about religions, others were religiously non-conforming while still others were willing to negate religion in all forms including or especially the one they were born into. The fervor of removing Islam from the argument over gender rights moved towards what I am now identifying as the secular Muslim feminist movement. This perspective would become", "more pronounced from this time forward. That is, so the end of the 20th century, this movement became more clear. It's rare to hear a Muslim woman disavowing Islam in the earlier, in the first wave Muslim women's movements. However, the conflated understanding of universal human rights and the post-enlightenment distinction between such rights", "and Islamism. Secular Muslim feminists thus became a distinctive and explicit identity. As this identification became coherent, the methodology of argument by Islamic sources was abandoned and condemned as backwards. As such, the development of a new more nuanced mediating articulation would go unnoticed for some time.", "In an effort to defeat the ill effects of Islamism with its exclusionary vision of the future for Muslims, international funders and research organizations rallied to support Muslim feminist secular groups. There was increased publication at a burgeoning number of non-government organizations.", "group would be quite tedious and very limited. For one thing, the in-between voice was building a coherent methodology and clear objectives. The most crucial part of this methodology was to critique definitions of the key terms Islam, human rights, and feminism, and to interrogate their varied relevance", "became a linchpin. It's interesting to note that neither term, Islam or feminism were subjected to more dynamic development initially. However without this interrogation it is difficult to distinguish the next development of gender discourse in action. The meeting of Islam and feminism was only possible when such an interrogation was followed through.", "had to be Western, had to secular. For those who would develop into or were already self-recognized as secular feminists this projection of feminism was not a problem. Similarly for the Islamist's this projection was unproblematic because it helped to fuel their refusal to adopt the term feminist no matter what", "For a period of time, this reified usage of the term feminist helped clarify who was who. Equally problematic however, was the reified useage of the terms Islam which was acceptable to both groups. When both terms that is Islam and feminism were challenged then the edges of the debate moved forward by leaps and bounds and that would be the beginning of Islamic Feminism.", "colonial feminist analysis raised question of imperialists and essentialist assumptions of the liberal feminist project where third world women and Muslim women are victims of their cultural values and practices needing to be rescued and rehabilitated.", "relationships of domination and subordination, and understandings of difference where treatment of difference is connected to the history of European colonial invasion. The liberal feminist project of human rights assumes that women's needs and desires are both universal and uniform. Gender becomes a universalizing strategy that argues that all women are similarly oppressed.", "of identity and location devoid of an analysis of economics, labor, ideology, ethnicity, politics, sexuality, and other divisions and differences among women. It was easy enough however to interrogate the term feminism for its secular and western biases. Within its own ranks these critiques had been developed by third world feminists,", "African American feminist or womanist, by poor feminists, by Marxist feminists and by lesbian or bisexual feminists in the West. Thus the term feminism was thoroughly vetted to shake loose its privileged location of the first wave Western women's movement. By the second wave, the mandate for the term to reflect the lived realities of more diverse women than the white middle class that it started with was well underway.", "Shaking the term Islam from its narrow conservative usage would take longer and in many ways it's still unfolding. The crux of the feminist response to larger populations of women globally was already in the core of the term feminism as defined by Simone de Beauvoir,", "In this regard, since international documents for human rights are also attempts to articulate a fundamental idea of what it means to be human, it has also been challenged in the context of complex global pluralism. The existence of more and more specific documents like the Rights of the Child indicate", "of universalism. The problem with the notion of human being as viewed by the relativists is that it is in fact relative. Unless and until all human beings accept the notions, the goal has not been reached. One of the main contributions of Islamic feminism to the women's movement was the authentic challenge to the politicization of the neoconservative understanding", "with the gender-inclusive analysis of the notion of human being in Islamic intellectual traditions and primary sources. Fixing upon simple Islamic cosmology articulated in the Qur'an, the human being is an agent of the divine will. Since this articulation", "of the Islamic worldview? Why has its application to a woman been curtailed by other functionary relationships? The standard measurement of patriarchy within Muslim historical and cultural contexts limits a woman's agency to God only as it manifests in her agency to men and family.", "even when family relationships could be seen as important. The best way to locate the discrepancy between women and men's human agency could be traced to the development of Muslim personal status law. The person is not adjudicated in Muslim personal-status law, it is the status of the person within the patriarchal family that is adjudicatd. Establishing and maintaining", "family does not require women's human rights or agency. It does not even require social justice in the way that we understand it today. Perhaps this is a result of the exclusion of women's perspectives from the codification process and the establishment of the primary canon. In the classical text,", "not as social beings, and their rights are discussed only in the context of family law. The classical fiqh notion of women's rights is nowhere more evident than in the definition of the marriage contract which treats women as semi-slaves. One can say that the disparity between men's and women's right in Muslim societies was and still is sustained largely through the rules that classical jurists devise for regulating", "formation and termination of the marriage contract. In this respect, there's really no major difference between the various fixed schools all share the same inner logic and conception of family according to Ziba Mir Hussaini The patriarchal family is built upon unequal or complementary relationships Does this complementarity fulfill the divine purpose on earth", "the ultimate obligation of all human beings created by Allah? A woman's service to men or family should never be a trade-off for her service and agency to Allah. However, in the patriarchal family structure –the only one known for millennium within Muslim and other cultures– the challenge to the autonomy of women's agency are seen as good and natural byproducts of her nature.", "To reject the patriarchal family would have been seen as the same as rejecting to participate in the community or even in Islam. It was not a price the overwhelming majority of Muslim women were willing to pay, so they made their peace with it. Eventually, the Islamist agenda would advocate the wisdom of this structure. Even the secularists would acquiesce to it. No one questioned the Islamic origin of this asymmetry.", "symmetry. How do we determine if this was a divine intent or the product of interpreters who were limited to and influenced by their own social and cultural realities? Since no articulation of egalitarian family was practiced at the time of the Prophet, developed in Islamic law, or envisioned by secular Muslim feminists", "of family became indisputable. This was where a radical reform was needed. It could only evolve with the rigorous overhaul of the underlying notion of human being and family in Islam. It is interesting to note how Muslim women moved forward in challenging almost all levels of women's roles", "of family in the private space. Muslim women developed a bifurcated personality even within the context of the secular feminist movement, home and family was without question. Public roles education politics and economics had to be challenged for their exclusionary dimensions for women. Meanwhile Islamist women who brought their agency forward into the public domain as well acquiesced", "More importantly, in the public realm Islamist women advocated loudly for maintaining this deference in the private sphere. This advocacy was in fact crucial to their legitimacy as activists in the Public Domain. There is no doubt that women's roles in Islam are part of current global debates. More importantly unlike at any other time in history Muslim women themselves", "I've tried to outline here the differences between three main perspectives in the debates. Certainly there are far more nuances taking control over what the future of Islam and gender will look like. At stake is the fundamental understanding of what Islam intends for women as human beings, agents of Allah, and as citizens in the global context. As Muslim women notions of gender from pre-modern times are untenable", "However, the ability to counter such ideas by formulating new ones has gained momentum only within an Islamic framework with the kind of work that has been done under the banner of Islamic feminism. Islamic feminism then works to establish a new egalitarian epistemology of Islam based on its own primary sources without the intermediary of patriarchal thinking.", "jurists and philosophers at the time, are not divine constructions. We are free to understand divine constructs for ourselves and in our context. When we do this, we unveil a much broader vista of gender possibilities than heretofore practiced or imagined. In our contexts as creatures created by Allah notions", "principle inherent in all Islamic texts must be in accordance to our lived reality. For the medieval jurists, justice was a kind of guardianship. Women needed to be protected. The selected historical fiqh to meet the social needs of women then remained part of the traditional pre-modern framework but justice today is not perceived simply as an act", "Rather, justice is seen as a relationship of horizontal reciprocity to other human beings because of a profound understanding of the divine mandate of the oneness of God. In other words, Tawhid becomes the basic operating principle for the reform of Islam and Islamic thought", "of equality and reciprocity. At the metaphysical level, God is the highest ultimate reality but that has to be implemented in the actions of the law and in the development of policy as well as in the home and family. For women and gender then, the question is not whether or not we want", "reality of this harmony and reciprocity. Thank you very much." ]
amina_wadud/Amina Wadud Islam_ Feminism and Human Rights_X_d4h4xyivc&pp=ygURQW1pbmEgV2FkdWQgaXNsYW0%3D_1742948136.opus	[ "I begin as always in the name of Allah whose grace I seek in this and all other matters. I want to thank Professor Berger for negotiating this possibility with me,", "I was actually here for another forum in Rotterdam and we were able to, with the hospitality of my brother Arnold Moore allow me to stay a bit longer so that I could speak with you. And hopefully we will have some interesting conversations afterwards. I'm actually going from a scripted paper which I have reduced to try to keep within the time", "and that means there may be some spaces that are a bit rough because I literally just reduced it. But I'm going to do that as a way to stay focused, because there's a lot that I want to cover. And the purpose of it really is to get to the place of a little bit of conversation about Islamic feminism which I am considering a methodology for the production", "and construction of new knowledge in living Islam. You will see that it will include critical reading of the classical intellectual canon of Islam, but with a lens that incorporates gender as a category of thought. Against the backdrop of the Arab Spring and radical changes that are going on in the Middle East this lecture focuses on Islam", "gender debates in Indonesia than in all of the Arabic, Farsi, Urdu and Turkish speaking countries combined. This globalization lens has special benefit when looking at the development of the Muslim women's movement. It also helps to locate my work within that movement and grants it legitimacy. I have worked on gender issues", "Before it had a name and before I could own the word feminism as appropriate for my work and perspective. I do not now nor have I ever lost sight of my aim to make certain articulations towards gender equality within the faith or from a faith perspective.", "in Islam had nothing to do with Western feminist movements because they tended to marginalize women of color, poor women and non-heterosexual women. My principal motivation in the gender debates is linked to my spiritual yearnings for God is bigger than any discourse acts in ways not fathomable to human beings at all", "if they choose not to respond to that living presence or reality. So this benevolence is not intended to offend, or to be imposed on people who do not believe in God. I say this instead because it is important to my location and to focus on theological elements in the debates over women's empowerment in the context of Islam. We cannot say anything about Islam", "until we're clear what we mean by Islam. Every discussion about Islam and women must begin with the meaning of the word Islam. People involved in the struggle for or against Islamic reform often operate on a presumption that there is a uniform agreement on the meaning", "sexuality or in Islam you must wear hijab, the source of such abstractions is frequently not provided. One important development that the women's movement helped to forge in international discourse at the end of the 20th century was the distinction between Muslim cultures and Islamic primary sources, that is the Quran,", "Islamic Law or Fiqh. And it's funny because in trying to get people to move away from certain static notions of Islam, even people who are working in progressive Islamic circles tend to defer back to these kinds of conservative definitions when they're talking about Islam so they make themselves as a response to a reaction", "of what I'm trying to do is get Islam to be once again more dynamic. In the Quran, the word Islam and Muslim are both used with reference to an historical community and to a state or posture vis-a-vis all of creation. The posture of conscientious surrender to the harmony of the universe. Indeed, the Quran says", "is harmonious, following a certain order with balance between its constituent parts. In all of my discussions about Islam and about Muslim women I build upon the definition of Islam encapsulated by it's most basic and fundamental principle Tauhid. There is no Islam without Tauheed. At it's", "matters of social justice, it refers to the more intensified form of its syntactical origin. The making of one from fragments that is diversity or plurality. It could be then defined as unity. The social principle of Tauhid mandates a relationship between human beings of equality and reciprocity.", "What is the role of women in Islam?", "on the earth. Woman was not created as a byproduct of, helpmate for or second class citizen to man. Furthermore her agency is in a direct relationship to God unmitigated by men's agency or by family. This agency is to be manifest", "Standing up for justice and gender equality, working to reform asymmetrical gender policies, and toppling tyrannical practices and epistemologies are thus essential to an agent as part of the human-divine relationship. These aspects of justice work are all mandated by Allah and established by the prophetic sunnah. Coincidentally this is the same as the role of men in Islam.", "Women are human. They do not depend upon men for their humanity. It is given to them by Allah. While women have always been a part of the community, expected to conform to the development of Islam within that community, in the early development of the foundational paradigms of Islamic thought and practice, they did not enjoy equal participation", "the fundamental understanding of what is Islam. In fact, as the Muslim empire spread geographically and politically especially after the Abbasid period women's contributions to the fundamental canon of Islam would be further marginalized and ultimately silenced. This had a profound effect on the future of Islamic thought and in the establishment of both legitimacy and authority.", "history from our vantage point, we see a very minor role that women played in establishing the basic epistemology that would come to stand as authority or legitimacy. For example, in the 12th century, the famous and prolific scholar Ahmed al-Ghazali symbolized the agent, that is the Khalifa, the agent in Islamic philosophical terms by comparison with the lute instrument. You know", "the little blowing instrument. He even compared the number of orifices in the body with the number holes in the lute, totally disregarding that distinctive number of our offices in the female body from the male body. Today women are present and accounted for at every level of the community including the scholarly and ritual community. Women participate fully", "establishing new canon, constructing new traditions, forming new policies living in the present with a loving yet critical eye on the past and a conscious trajectory towards the future. This is proving to be a bit of a corrective for the asymmetry between women and men and Muslim communities. However we do not go about this without some contention", "perspectives, methods and objectives. This is natural, inevitable and for the most part useful. What I will describe here is the historical evolution of three major perspectives regarding Islam and gender reform. The names I have given to each are also not necessarily confirmed by consensus either but", "will be self-explanatory and will facilitate discussion afterwards. Of course, in our history there have always been some advocates for gender justice. We go back maybe to the Prophet's time. People like to mention one of the Prophet wives Umm Salama and after her interrogation", "revelation was addressed, there was a verse revealed that was very explicitly inclusive indeed for all men and women who have rendered themselves unto Allah. For all truly devout men and all truly-devout women, all women and men who are true to their word, all men & women who are patient in adversity etc., etc. So there is already a sense at which there is a dynamic but the voices were still", "number. So the point here is as if the Quran says that the Quran is addressed to both women and men, and it is especially in terms of its ultimate objective which is human guidance. And while the text is clear about this ultimate objective there are still many passages in the Quran that address those who held greater privilege", "exclusively to men as male persons. Throughout the text there is an intricate balance between the speaker, Allah, the performance voice, the Prophet, the voice of those whose stories are told therein and those to whom the text speaks which is both the specific community living with the prophet and all of humankind. Despite evidence", "gender inequality. Today what we are experiencing is a mass movement of women and men against gender asymmetry as injustice. It matters very little if this injustice was established by intent or by accident of discrimination. The Muslim Women's movements are also connected to certain global developments. Chief among these developments was the rise", "and thus the rise of the nation-state as a consequence for one thing certain nationalist movements. Unfortunately, women were often not equal beneficiaries of the spoils of these new nationalist regiments. This is the place where the modern Muslim Women's Movement began in earnest. Like with the current Arab Spring,", "Muslim women stood side by side with their men or with Muslim men to throw off the shackles of colonialism and build nationalist movements. At that time, most women's organizations were branches of larger nationalist organizations. Once the victory of independence was won it was not uncommon for women to be asked to return to the home and give up the ideas and ideals of equal citizenship.", "similar is starting to happen in terms of the aftermath of the Arab Spring. This would herald a new phase in women's activism that would be independent from the larger men or nationalist organizations for political, social economic and legal rights. As Margot Badran wrote, Women had a rude awakening when it became clear that liberal men were not prepared", "public life after nominal political independence. The Muslim women's movement then dates back to this rupture between the development of the notion of free and equal citizens, and the prohibition against women's full participation. The development of nation-state in the end of colonialism was also the beginning of a new global awareness. This awareness consists of recognizing local regional", "regional or national realities against and within the context of realities in a world unlike one's own. Such global awareness is the root of pluralism. Our humanity today is clearly possible only with this sense of plurality. Pluralism includes the capacity to accept,", "This acceptance reflects our own local realities without projecting these as the ultimate human concern for everyone. The ultimate human concerns is beyond narrow, local imagination and praxis even as it must be seen as a reflection of the ultimate. Thus, our present time is not the only time. Our current place is not", "Our existing customs are not the only customs, our worldview is not the world view. These basic elements of pluralism become essential for the global women's movement. The first wave Muslim women's movements consisted of a kind of methodological overlap and also some repetitions all aligned with how the nation state would operate including personal status law or", "status law or family law, which would only be canonized after the colonial period. The first collective voices of gender reform were from well-to-do, well educated and often well traveled women who had seen firsthand that the world is not uniform. They stood up as Muslim women", "Muslim women's movement, the secular feminist and Islamist articulations of Muslim women liberation would develop into opposing camps. So at first there was a little bit more integration and then this development of an opposition which is important to think about. The secular Muslim feminist movement is premised upon the idea that religions are the cause of women's oppression and that they are too patriarchal for redemption. Whether", "Whether religion is relegated to a personal response or altogether irrelevant depends upon the religiosity of the individual. Deference is given unequivocally to the international instruments as developed by the United Nations and ascribed as universal.", "and leaning towards so-called Western values, most women nevertheless recognize the need for support the principle of and work towards a new definition of universality in human rights. This discourse participates in the inherent conflict between women's rights and cultures. And according to Madhavi Sunder, but religion qua religion is less", "traditional legal constructions of this category. Premised on centuries-old Enlightenment compromise that justified reason in the public sphere by allowing deference to religious despotism in the private, human rights law continues to define religion in the 21st century as a sovereign extra-legal jurisdiction", "Law views religion as natural, irrational, incontestable and imposed. In contrast to the public sphere, the only viable space for freedom and reason. Simply put, religion is the other of international law.\" At the time of the establishment of the nation state, the crucial question of the role of religion in the political process led to two opposing sides.", "One advocating a separation of the state from religion, who would begin to self-identify as secular and sometimes Western. And the other constructing an unquestionable version of Islam as state and religion or state and faith. The term secular would morph from the simple separation into its more aggressive form.", "one that starts by marginalizing God or sometimes even announcing his death, placing the human at the center of the universe as its logo. This articulation of secularism would become even more coherent with the rise of the other outspoken public voice in favor of Islam which would grow into political Islam, that is the Islamist movement. Throwing off", "meant challenging the very aspects of the colonialist worldview. The most uniform response to the problems related to the post-colonial Muslim context was a cry to return to the glorious past of the Islamic empire. With Islam as a solution, a new development emerged in the women's movement as well. Islam as global phenomena with a substantial history is in fact", "is in fact an important aspect of the debate. But, the question is can we or should we go back to it? The merit of the call to return to Islam was that it is both authentic and authoritative. However as it continued it moved to reject all other world views as un-Islamic. The Islamist agenda then mandates a return", "or of the time of the Prophet. The intent is to take the spirit of Islam and the soul of Muslim identity, to organize the politics of a new world order.\" Quote,", "They came to be suspicious of many traditions of Islamic thought and practice that developed through time, according to Omid Safi. The Islamist agenda is encapsulated within a cry for the return to Sharia.", "It was and is a hugely effective antithesis to secular ideas and authoritarian regimes. At the level of the general public, the cry for return to Sharia is generally reductionist collapsing the universal principles of Sharia with the juridical methods and mechanisms of implementation known as Sfik or the codes that have been produced by this Sfak", "is the path that leads to water, that is the source of all life. Thus it is universal, divine, sublime and an ideal. The goal of this ideal society or the Muqasid is justice. The more coherent definition of Islamic law that the Islamists are hoping to achieve", "or simply jurisprudence. To distinguish between these two is crucial for debunking the claim that somehow if Muslim nation states were to establish Islamic law then all problems would be solved. By toggling between the universal intent of Sharia, which is justice and the human necessarily fallible thus subject to change mechanisms", "furthermore take license in condemning any who criticize their programs as if they are against Islam. Anyone who resists the establishment of their specific goals is deemed resistant to the implementation of the immutable divine order and even an unbeliever. However, Sharia cannot be implemented except through human procedural means", "has always been diverse, has always flexible. Thus this lack of uniformity which we can confirm even by today's modern existence of four major Sunni schools and at least one major Shia school means there is no such thing as pure and simple Islamic law. We are up against different realities by the creation of the nation state as well", "of the continual relationship at an international level. There has yet to be a single system constructed by the Islamists that satisfies all the claims of Islamic authenticity and that fulfills all their objectives. In the nation-state, all policies are subject to public debate including from non-Muslims. Implementation can only occur by the will of the people", "people. People are open to disagree, however it is clear that whoever has the power to enforce their understanding of Sharia can and will coerce that understanding over all others even for matters of faith and individual consciousness. As Abdullah Ibn Naim says, Sharia principles cannot be enacted", "public policy solely on the grounds that they are believed to be part of Sharia. If such enactment and enforcement is attempted, the outcome will necessarily be the political will of the state and not the Islamic law of Islam. The fact that ruling elites sometimes make claims to legitimize their control of the State in the name of Islam does not mean that such claims are true.\"", "The Islamist debates are critical for the women's movement because it usually comes down to the establishment of archaic, pre-modern Muslim personal status law or family laws. In the time of the formulation of Muslim personal statuess law, Muslim families were unconditionally patriarchal. Women who followed the Islamist agenda promote", "without offering any analysis of what constitutes family and whether existing families are fulfilling the ideals deemed essential to that constitution. Any real crisis experienced in the family is instead simply charged as negligence of Islam. As such, these discussions become cyclical. The solution to family is Islam", "is Islam and failed families are un-Islamic. Although an important public role for women has also resulted within the Islamist agenda, women's unquestionable obedience to family in its primitive patriarchal form is still unquestioned. Consequently a bifurcation often occurs between women's public empowerment", "A pivotal moment in considering whose voices was most beneficial to the cause of Muslim women's well-being, liberation, autonomy and citizenship came in 1995 with the Beijing International Conference for Women. The Islamists who were present applauded the wisdom behind Islam's position on women. The more aggressive outspoken and certainly more aligned", "were also present and refused to yield ground to those they considered backward thinking. Nevertheless, in an attempt to coordinate our efforts nightly meetings were called for and these just turned into chaos. It was impossible to find any common ground and for some reason each side also felt that more", "to find some united agenda for all Muslim women present and for those women whom they claim to represent. Let's look at the larger context of the Beijing meetings. The purpose was to discuss the UN Convention for the Elimination of All Forms of Discrimination Against Women, or CEDAW.", "from all nation states and a larger goal to address gross inequalities between female and male citizens of the world. Muslim feminists are closely aligned to the secular trajectory of these international instruments. They are considered universal, and not subject to individual states. If there's any conflict as has been shown to be inevitable then Muslim women who hope", "cultural injustices in the context of Muslim majority nation states must support the UN agendas and reject the cries of the ultra-conservative religious. If the choice is between religion and human rights, then human rights must reign. Religion must be kept out of the debates.\" To assume that religion would stay out of", "For one thing, such a response increased the fervor of the Islamists who also insisted that Islam and human rights are incompatible. For them there is an Islamic solution to everything whether the sources of this solution was explicit texts from the Quran or Sunnah developed by early jurist or past and present intellectuals", "authorities whose interpretation rarely take adequate consideration of our complex current circumstances and live realities, still such solutions were seen as immutable, divine not subject to debate in superior to any human made systems documents or international instruments. As if we could really implement God's law without people's intervention and interpretation", "interpretation. At the International Women's Conference, the animosity between those who advocated for the international instruments as the sole method for advancing the cause of Muslim women were put face to face with those who advocate it for an un-interrogated notion of Islam as their methods. A third perspective was also present but it was in its nascent stage", "or implementable strategy, let alone coherent objectives. However most importantly it argued that the either-or dichotomy did not reflect the overwhelming majority of Muslim women. The idea that there must be either human rights or Islam was false. Surely there are challenges to be launched against", "universal human rights, but the goal is not to abandon them altogether. Rather, to read in the nuance, quote, for human rights to be universal it must be integral to the culture and experiences of all societies everywhere. Human rights require validation in terms of values in each culture and in terms", "Most Muslim women then, as you can see, unquestionably identify with Islam. At the same time many Muslim women express concern over experiences of disjuncture between what is promoted as the ideal of Islam and their own lived realities.", "These lived realities were increasingly being made public. With so much attention, however, the push to disavow Islam was no doubt confusing if not also confounding. Further clarification was needed to distinguish this third perspective from the Islamists because this third prospective also refused to disaval Islam. Personally I chose to identify myself by a two-part name", "name, pro-faith and pro-feminist. So pro-Islam and pro feminism. On the other hand this third perspective also critiqued certain practices and the underlying patriarchal structure in the development of Islamic canon and in Muslim cultures as such they were shunned by the Islamists", "This is when the secular feminist identity became most coherent. Before this time, with very few exceptions, Muslim women argued as Muslims maintaining a kind of allegiance to Islam albeit un-interrogated. With the rise of Islamism, this uninterrogate Islam took on political force. Those who had been developing along the lines of a global perspective", "towards the left. Some were ambiguous about religions, others were religiously non-conforming while still others were willing to negate religion in all forms including or especially the one they were born into. The fervor of removing Islam from the argument over gender rights moved towards what I am now identifying as the secular Muslim feminist movement. This perspective would become more pronounced", "more pronounced from this time forward. That is, so the end of the 20th century, this movement became more clear. It's rare to hear a Muslim woman disavowing Islam in the earlier, in the first wave Muslim women's movements. However, the conflated understanding of universal human rights and the post-enlightenment distinction between such rights", "and Islamism. Secular Muslim feminists thus became a distinctive and explicit identity. As this identification became coherent, the methodology of argument by Islamic sources was abandoned and condemned as backwards. As such, the development of a new more nuanced mediating articulation would go unnoticed for some time.", "In an effort to defeat the ill effects of Islamism with its exclusionary vision of the future for Muslims, international funders and research organizations rallied to support Muslim feminist secular groups. There was increased publications at a burgeoning number of non-government organizations.", "group would be quite tedious and very limited. For one thing, the in-between voice was building a coherent methodology and clear objectives. The most crucial part of this methodology was to critique definitions of the key terms Islam, human rights, and feminism, and to interrogate their varied relevance to the lives of Muslim women. In fact, the term feminism became a linchpin.", "became a linchpin. It's interesting to note that neither term, Islam or feminism were subjected to more dynamic development initially. However without this interrogation it is difficult to distinguish the next development of gender discourse in action. The meeting of Islam and feminism was only possible when such an interrogation was followed through. Heretofore feminism had", "had to be Western, had to secular. For those who would develop into or were already self-recognized as secular feminists this projection of feminism was not a problem. Similarly for the Islamist this projection was unproblematic because it helped to fuel their refusal to adopt the term feminist no matter what", "For a period of time, this reified usage of the term feminist helped clarify who was who. Equally problematic however, was the reified useage of the terms Islam which was acceptable to both groups. When both terms that is Islam and feminism were challenged then the edges of the debate moved forward by leaps and bounds and that would be the beginning of Islamic Feminism.", "colonial feminist analysis raised question of imperialists and essentialist assumptions of the liberal feminist project where third world women and Muslim women are victims of their cultural values and practices needing to be rescued in rehabilitated. Quote,", "relationships of domination and subordination, and understandings of difference where treatment of difference is connected to the history of European colonial invasion. The liberal feminist project of human rights assumes that women's needs and desires are both universal and uniform. Gender becomes a universalizing strategy that argues that all women are similarly oppressed.", "of identity and location devoid of an analysis of economics, labor ideology, ethnicity politics sexuality and other divisions and differences among women. It was easy enough however to interrogate the term feminism for its secular and Western biases within its own ranks these critiques had been developed by third-world feminists", "African American feminist or womanist, by poor feminists, by Marxist feminists and by lesbian or bisexual feminists in the West. Thus the term feminism was thoroughly vetted to shake loose its privileged location of the first wave Western women's movement. By the second wave, the mandate for the term to reflect the live realities of more diverse women than the white middle class that it started with was well underway.", "Shaking the term Islam from its narrow conservative usage would take longer and in many ways it's still unfolding. The crux of the feminist response to larger populations of women globally was already in the core of the term feminism as defined by Simone de Beauvoir, the radical idea that women are human beings.", "In this regard, since international documents for human rights are also attempts to articulate a fundamental idea of what it means to be human. It has also been challenged in the context of complex global pluralism. The existence of more and more specific documents like the Rights of the Child indicate", "of universalism. The problem with the notion of human being as viewed by the relativists is that it is in fact relative. Unless and until all human beings accept the notions, the goal has not been reached. One of the main contributions of Islamic feminism to the women's movement was the authentic challenge to the politicization of the neoconservative understanding of Islam. It began", "with the gender-inclusive analysis of the notion of human being in Islamic intellectual traditions and primary sources. Fixing upon simple Islamic cosmology articulated in the Quran, the human being is an agent of the divine will or khalifa. Since this articulation", "of the Islamic worldview? Why has its application to a woman been curtailed by other functionary relationships? The standard measurement of patriarchy within Muslim historical and cultural contexts limits a woman's agency to God only as it manifests in her agency to men and family.", "even when family relationships could be seen as important. The best way to locate the discrepancy between women and men's human agency could be traced to the development of Muslim personal status law. The person is not adjudicated in Muslim personal-status law, it is the status of the person within the patriarchal family that is adjudicator. Establishing and maintaining", "does not require women's human rights or agency. It does not even require social justice in the way that we understand it today. Perhaps this is a result of the exclusion of women's perspectives from the codification process and the establishment of the primary canon. In the classical text, women are depicted as sexual beings,", "not as social beings, and their rights are discussed only in the context of family law. The classical fiqh notion of women's rights is nowhere more evident than in the definition of the marriage contract which treats women as semi-slaves. One can say that the disparity between men's and women's right in Muslim societies was and still is sustained largely through the rules", "formation and termination of the marriage contract. In this respect, there's really no major difference between the various fixed schools. All share the same inner logic and conception of family according to Ziba Mir Hussaini. The patriarchal family is built upon unequal or complementary relationships. Does this complementarity fulfill the divine purpose on earth", "the ultimate obligation of all human beings created by Allah? A woman's service to men or family should never be a trade-off for her service and agency to Allah. However, in the patriarchal family structure, the only one known for millennium within Muslim and other cultures, the challenge to the autonomy of women's agency are seen as good and natural byproducts of her nature.", "To reject the patriarchal family would have been seen as the same as rejecting to participate in the community or even in Islam. It was not a price the overwhelming majority of Muslim women were willing to pay, so they made their peace with it. Eventually, the Islamist agenda would advocate the wisdom of this structure. Even the secularists would acquiesce to it. No one questioned the Islamic origin of this asymmetry.", "symmetry. How do we determine if this was a divine intent or the product of interpreters who were limited to and influenced by their own social and cultural realities? Since no articulation of egalitarian family was practiced at the time of the Prophet, developed in Islamic law, or envisioned by secular Muslim feminists", "of family became indisputable. This was where a radical reform was needed. It could only evolve with the rigorous overhaul of the underlying notion of human being and family in Islam. It is interesting to note how Muslim women moved forward in challenging almost all levels of women's roles", "of family in the private space. Muslim women developed a bifurcated personality even within the context of the secular feminist movement, home and family was without question. Public roles, education, politics and economics had to be challenged for their exclusionary dimensions for women. Meanwhile Islamist women who brought their agency forward into the public domain as well acquiesced to notions of family that left them subservient.", "More importantly, in the public realm Islamist women advocated loudly for maintaining this deference in the private sphere. This advocacy was in fact crucial to their legitimacy as activists in the Public Domain. There is no doubt that women's roles in Islam are part of current global debates. More importantly unlike at any other time in history Muslim women themselves are leading these debates.", "I've tried to outline here the differences between three main perspectives in the debates. Certainly there are far more nuances taking control over what the future of Islam and gender will look like. At stake is the fundamental understanding of what Islam intends for women as human beings, agents of Allah, and as citizens in the global context. As Muslim women, notions of gender from pre-modern times are untenable.", "However, the ability to counter such ideas by formulating new ones has gained momentum only within an Islamic framework with the kind of work that has been done under the banner of Islamic feminism. Islamic feminism then works to establish a new egalitarian epistemology of Islam based on its own primary sources without the intermediary of patriarchal thinking.", "Islamic feminism says, Islam belongs to all of us. All of us have a stake in how our religion is defined but also how religious ideas are implemented in our policies and in our homes. Furthermore notions about women's subservience as a result of certain medieval constructions reflecting the understanding of jurists", "jurists and philosophers at the time, are not divine constructions. We are free to understand divine constructs for ourselves and in our context. When we do this, we unveil a much broader vista of gender possibilities than heretofore practiced or imagined. In our contexts as creatures created by Allah notions", "The essential principle inherent in all Islamic texts must be in accordance to our lived reality. For the medieval jurists, justice was a kind of guardianship. Women needed to be protected. The selected historical fiqh to meet the social needs of women then remained part of the traditional pre-modern framework. But justice today is not perceived simply as an act of kindness towards women.", "Rather, justice is seen as a relationship of horizontal reciprocity to other human beings because of a profound understanding of the divine mandate of the oneness of God. In other words, Tawhid becomes the basic operating principle for the reform of Islam and Islamic thought", "of equality and reciprocity. At the metaphysical level, God is the highest ultimate reality but that has to be implemented in the actions of the law and then the development of policy as well as in the home and family. For women and gender then, the question is not whether or not we want to remain a part", "reality of this harmony and reciprocity. Thank you very much." ]
amina_wadud/AMINA WADUD __ KELOMPOK 13 _ PPMHI__UiQbB500JuI&pp=ygURQW1pbmEgV2FkdWQgaXNsYW0%3D_1742926111.opus	[ "Beliau anak seorang pendeta yang taat, walaupun nama ayahnya itu tidak diketahui akan tetapi Aminah mengatakan beliau tidak begitu akrab dengan ayah-Nya sehingga tidak banyak mempengaruhi pandangan-pandangan selama hidupnya. Di saat beliau berusia 20 tahun, beliau tertarik terhadap ajaran Islam", "Islam khususnya dalam konsep keadilan dalam Islam. Keadilan dalam islam ini telah mengantarkannya untuk mengincap dua kalimat syahadat di masjid Washington di tahun 1972 nah pada hari itu beliau menyebutnya sebagai hari Thanksgiving Day", "Dengan diawali debat pendidikan pada tahun 1975, beliau meraih gelar sarjana padat bidang pendidik di Universitas Pennsylvania. Lalu pada tahun 1982, beliau meraihi gelar masternya di Universitasi Michigan dalam kajian Near Eastern.", "Western Studies Lalu pada tahun 1988 beliau mendapatkan dolar dokter di universitas yang sama Nah, selama studi masternya beliau mengalami bahasa Arab di American University Universitas Cairo dan juga Universitas Al-Azhar yang berada di Cairo", "Selama perjalanan karirnya di bidang akademik khususnya, dimulai pada tahun 1980-an di Philadelphia di Islamic Community Center School. Lalu pada tahun 1996 di Universitas di Libya.", "Virginia Commonwealth University pada tahun 1992 dan pada puncaknya yakni menjadi guru besar pada tahun 1999. Sebuah yang kedua yakni tentang karya-karya intelektual dari Amin al-Dhud sebagai seorang tokoh studi Islam", "juga aktivis gender sudah selayaknya untuk memiliki karya-karya yang beredar di masyarakat. Nah, berikut ada pun beberapa karya beliau diantaranya yang pertama berupa Bukul. Buku yang pertama yakni berjudul Quran and Women Rewriting the Sacred Texts from", "from a woman's perspective buku wanita di dalam Al-Quran yang merupakan hasil dari penelitian dan juga diskusi-diskusi yang dilakukan oleh Aminah Wadid dengan teman-temannya yang dipublikasikan pada tahun 1992 buku ini sangatlah menarik karena", "karena buku ini berisi tentang penafsiran ulang ayat-ayat yang berhubungan dengan gender. Lalu karya yang kedua juga sama, berupa buku yang berjudul Inside the Gender Jihad, Women's Reform in Islam.", "menjadi single parent lebih dari 30 tahun bagi 4 orang anaknya nah hal ini merupakan awal jihadnya dalam memperjuangkan hak-hak bagi para wanita muslim untuk karya intelektual selanjutnya yakni berupa artikel sebenarnya terdapat banyak sekali", "banyak sekali artikel-artikel yang diciptakan oleh beliau akan tadi disini saya akan menutupkan beberapa saja, yang pertama artikel beliau berjudul tentang alternatif penafsiran terhadap Al-Quran dan strategi kekuasaan wanita muslim di dalam buku Tirai Kekuasaan Aktivitas Keilmuan Wanita Muslim artikel yang kedua", "Al-Quran, syariah dan hak politik wanita muslim di dalam makalah simposium hukum syarih dan negara modern Lalu artikel yang ketiga berjudul tentang wanita Muslim antara keluarga negaraan dan kelekinan Di dalam jurnal Women and Citizenship", "wanita muslim sebagai minoritas di dalam jurnal of Muslim Minority of Ears dan juga masih banyak lagi artikel-artikel beliau selanjutnya subab yang ketiga saya akan menjelaskan tentang lingkungan sosial dari Amina Wadud Amina wadud ini aktif dalam bidang keorganisasian", "antaranya adalah forum SIS atau Sister in Islam di Malaysia pada bulan Oktober tahun 1989. Lalu beliau juga menjadi Ketua Koordinator Komite Perempuan dan Anggota Dewan Kongres pada tahun 1999 sampai 2004.", "studi tentang Amerika Afrika pada tahun 1996 sampai 1997 lalu beliau menjadi editor jurnal Lintas Budaya Virginia Commonwealth University pada tahun 96 dan juga sebagai anggota Dewan Penasehat Karama Muslim Women Lawyers Committee for Human Rights dan dia juga mengabdikan banyak waktu", "banyak waktunya dalam upaya menegakkan keadilan sosial pada masyarakat barat selain juga pada masyaarakat lainnya tentunya dan juga terutama bagi kaum-kaum perempuan beliau juga seringkali untuk diundang berseminar di berbagai belahan dunia mengenai", "dalam Islam secara umum dan juga perempuan Amerika keturunan Afrika secara khusus selain itu juga tentang mengenai spiritualitas feminisme dalam perspektif Islam sesungguhnya yang membuat Amina Wadid melakukan", "melakukan begitu banyak hal yang telah saya sebutkan seperti yang telat saya sebetulnya tadi itu adalah bentuk dari kontribusi dari kompleks historis yang Arab kaitannya dengan pengalaman dan pergaulan bersama perempuan Afrika Amerika dalam upaya memperjuangkan keadilan gender", "Beliau secara pribadi adalah seorang muslimah yang mengalami diskriminasi berlipat ganda. Jadi baginya memiliki ras Afrika Amerika saja sudah cukup mengalaminya, apalagi beliau adalah sebuah perempuan muslim dan juga janda.", "Perjuangan Aminah Waduk ini untuk mencapai hubungan yang setara dalam sistem relasi laki-laki dan perempuan telah dibuktikannya dalam dua hal. Yang pertama, dalam tataran konsep yang telah tertuang dalam sebuah karya tafsir", "khususnya dalam sebuah karya tafsir tematik dengan judul Quran and Women Rewriting the Secret Texts from a Woman's Perspective kemudian di dalam buku keduanya dengan judu Inside the Gender Jihad, Women's Reform in Islam buku ini merupakan histori awal", "Dalam masa jihadnya dalam memperjuangkan hak-hak adilan bagi para perempuan khususnya bagi Para Perempuan Muslim lalu yang kedua dalam kotoran praktis pada tanggal 18 Maret 2005 beliau telah menciptakan kegiatan", "kegiatan yang disebut Jumat Bersejarah Nah, Jum'at BerSejarah ini diresmikan pada tanggal 18 Maret 2005 dan dilakukan di sebuah gereja Anglikan Estejon The Divine di kawasan Manhattan New York Amerika Serikat Jadi Aminah Wadud ini", "ini melakukan sholat jum'at bersama organisasi LSM Muslim Workout Amerika dimana beliau bertindak sebagai imam sekaligus hatib nah gerakan ini sangat kontroversi jadi sangat banyak sekali memunculkan pro dan kontra sampai saat ini pula", "Inilah yang membuat kemudian posisi Aminah Wadud Nusin menjadi istimewa, unik dan juga seorang intelektual sekaligus tokoh gerakan dalam feminisme Islam. Sekian akan dilanjutkan oleh pemateri yang kedua.", "itu mengenai metode pemikiran dari Aminah Wadid jadi disini, Aminnah Wadud merupakan seorang feminisme muslim yang mempunyai semangat keadilan untuk seorang perempuan beliau ini menggunakan tafsir hermeneutik, metode ini mengaitkan dengan berbagai persoalan sosial, ekonomi politik dan juga persoalaan perembuan pada zaman sekarang menurut Aminna Wadu", "Bahwa hermeneutik itu diperlukan dalam memahami ayat-ayat Al-Quran Nah, metode ini bertujuan untuk memperbaiki kedudukan perempuan Dalam kehidupan sosial, politik dan juga hukum Nah, selain metode itu Beliau juga merujuk pada pemikiran dari seorang tokoh pembaharu Islam Yaitu Faslu Rahman", "Untuk menemukan prinsip umum Al-Quran dalam rangka konteks dualisasi dengan situasi pembunuhan saat ini Aminah Madud mengadopsi metode double movement, yaitu mengenai pokok-pokok pemikiran dari Aminahl Madud. Dalam salah satu buku yang berjudul Quran and Movement dari Amina Madud beliau mengatakan bahwa tidak ada penaksirannya betul-betul objektif", "Itu maksudnya apa? Maksudnya setiap penafsiran memiliki nilai subjektivitas yang merupakan refleksi dari keinginan-keinginkan para mufasir itu sendiri. Nah, selanjutnya penafsyiran tentang perempuan menurut Amina Wadid itu terbagi menjadi tiga yaitu tradisional, kreatif dan holistik.", "tidak dapat ditemui dalam kategori penafsiran klasik dan tradisional. Oleh karena itu, penafsyuran tradisinal ini dinilai tidak mampu merefleksi pandangan dan ide-ide dari Al-Quran. Dan lagi, penasiran tradisial ini sangat didominasi oleh Mufassir yang laki-laki sehingga perangkat visi, persepsi maupun pengalaman dari Mufasir ini", "Sangat mempengaruhi dalam penafsirannya Baik, itu saja yang bisa kami sampaikan Mohon maaf jika terdapat banyak kesalahan Wassalamualaikum warahmatullahi wabarakatuh" ]
amina_wadud/Amina Wadud led muslim prayer_MvFvHSVBdks&pp=ygURQW1pbmEgV2FkdWQgaXNsYW0%3D_1742931804.opus	[ "بسم اللہ الرحمن الرحیم اس حضور کے موقع میں جو ہوتا ہے" ]
amina_wadud/Amina Wadud on Feminism in Islam_WGH-01KQB_A&pp=ygURQW1pbmEgV2FkdWQgaXNsYW0%3D_1743319085.opus	[ "Well, the space is pretty much granted by the rubric in Islam where there's no intermediate", "There is no intermediary between any person and God, and therefore each person has equal access to God, And God has equal connection or relation to every person. Of course that mandate has been denied because patriarchy has controlled not only the orthodoxy of religion but also customs and culture, and women have thus been relegated to a secondary role", "role and then that role is encapsulated with theological taboos as if to go outside of the patriarchal role, it's going outside of religion. And that point is very strong in my advocacy to make sure that patriarchy remains a human institution and not a divine institution. So that's the joy actually of my work being able to constantly", "What is the role of the movement in the implementation of patriarchy?", "I would call Muslim secular feminism, and secular feminism is seeking to keep religion out of the debates. And instead going by say United Nations human rights instruments. Another movement is the Islamist Movement, and the Islamists Movement is very strong on gender issues. However it confirms Islam pretty much only in the way in which it has been patriarchally ascribed.", "is a contestation between these two voices. They both agree it's either Islam or human rights, and the most dynamic is what I'm calling Islamic feminism, and that is one where there is no either-or. We are demanding both Islam and human rights. A lot of agreement between this third voice and international human rights instruments, but", "instruments. And there is also this very strong confirmation of Islam as a way of life, but it is not in the patriarchal interpretation of Islam. So we take full agency in how these ideas are understood, how human rights is understood and how Islam is understood. And again I find that a very exciting time because there is such a collective movement.", "the affirmation of the mandate for women's participation and inclusion of women's voices, perspectives and experiences in all policies. And even in our private lives and in our cultures." ]
amina_wadud/Amina Wadud Presentation_FyI4pgBuWo8&pp=ygURQW1pbmEgV2FkdWQgaXNsYW0%3D_1742899986.opus	[ "All right, so I'm going to be doing my presentation on Amina Wadood. I looked up the pronunciation of that last name but if i'm butchering it i'm really sorry. So question one how does Wadoood conceive of the effects of the postmodern situation on Islam and has she interpreted the resurgence of Islam via this conception? So Wadoo begins the interview kind of by talking about her idea of progressive Islam which is from my understanding keeping Islamic values", "Islamic values and beliefs intact while progressing it along with societal values. She talks about how Islam as a religion is a progression both spiritually and historically, and this progression continues even though there might have been some historical events like colonialism, the example that she uses, uh, that may have disrupted it because the Muslims were able to get back on track", "humanity as representatives or trustees or agents of the divine. And that kind of picking themselves back up was what was referred to as the resurgence by the West. She talks about how Islam is also moving forward in spiritual as well as historical senses, in the sense that they're trying", "quote in the Medina time of the prophet. So she's talking about how Islam is kind of moving forward with modernity. An example of that kind of leads into question two, how does Wadud view the role of the patriarchy in Islam and its genesis? And what effects does she believe it to have had in contemporary Islamic institutions?", "reflect the patriarchal society of the time, but she explains that the patriarchial beginnings of the religion does not encapsulate the religion as a whole. It shouldn't be considered the primary focus of the Religion of Islam is her primary point. A quote to support that is just one manifestation and from it we may get clues", "point that kind of ties into her idea of progressive Islam moving forward rather than staying back. And in order to progress, we must try to break the tradition away from the historical context of its beginnings. An example of that that she brings up is the reformation of Sharia law where it should be people asking themselves how can I be good rather than the government", "enforce what we think is good without input from anyone else. And she talks about how that needs to be taken into question by people and kind of re-evaluated and reformed. Number three, how does Wadu observe Islam interacting with culture and culture interacting with Islam? What are the differences? So she talks", "sends or shapes or develops culture. So I found that in relating culture with Islam, one of the examples she uses is the freedom of religion promised to all American citizens in the Constitution but also shows the flip side of the discrimination against the Muslim religion for not being a Judeo-Christian religion and how that wasn't really taken with open arms in America when these Muslim immigrants came.", "came. And so cultural reacting with Islam is more about how those in the world around the Muslims are reacting to their religion and how they're feeling about the existence of this religion in their community. And on the flip side, Islam reacting with culture is more", "that reflect quote the Islamic worldview or Islamic spiritual objectives, but she also points out that they do have non-Islamic aspects that make them unique. Finally how do external symbols influence perception of identity in Islamic culture especially as pertaining to women? So the primary example she uses in this is the hijab or the headscarf. She believes", "ingrained in the Islamic culture as the kind of only correct way to represent the Islamic value of modesty. She writes with that,", "as well as promoting uniformity. The interviewer kind of takes her into more detail with that by asking why it's a symbol of liberation and also a symbol oppression in certain contexts so she elaborates by saying that it's the symbol of Liberation when worn by choice, and more of a symbol impression when one is forced to wear it for example what it's considered the only correct way to be modest", "internal struggle, like being told it's the only correct way or thinking, well if I don't wear it then how can I be a Muslim? And also from outside forces that we see that have the requirements to wear the hijab in their laws and that must be upheld. For example, in Iran she brings up this example of women transitioning from shahadors to hijabs after the revolution", "Revolution. And then the wearing of a hijab was adopted into their law, so now it's legally enforced. But they also consider it a way for the women to have brought to light their issues with women's rights. So it kind of encapsulates the symbol of representing identity and liberation while also promoting the uniformity and outside forces that are oppressing them.", "which I thought was an interesting kind of duality to have." ]
amina_wadud/Amina Wadud_ _Qur_an and Woman___2PJoKzILxc&pp=ygURQW1pbmEgV2FkdWQgaXNsYW0%3D_1742900052.opus	[ "Assalamualaikum warahmatullahi wabarakatuh. Nama saya Manjuro Sandi dan saya akan membawa Anda melalui presentasi ini. Dalam presentasinya kami memberikan material tentang model hermeneutik terhadap penelitian wanita dalam Al-Quran Al-Kur'an. Orang yang kita bicarakan adalah Amina Wadud dan menulis Al-Mu'min", "Pertama-tama, saya ingin memperkenalkan Anda kepada grup kami. Yang pertama adalah saya, Panjir Sandi. Yang kedua adalah Ribi Putri Amalia. Dalam diskusi ini kita akan membahas tiga topik. Yang keempat adalah kategori penelitian wanita di Al-Ghul Quran. Yang ketiga adalah metodologi model hermeneutika.", "to interpret the Holy Quran and the last one is how perspective on women works in describing gender distinction in Islam. The first two topics will be given by Ribi Putri Amalia. Okay, hello everyone! My name is Ribi putri amalia and now I would like to explain the first", "For the first topic, we have the categories of the interpretation of women in the Holy Quran. So Aminah Wadud put interpretation of woman in the Quran into three categories and they are traditional reactive and also holistic The first category of Qur'anic interpretation is called traditional", "whether from modern or classical periods with certain objective in mind. Those objectives could be legal, esoteric, grammatical, rhetorical, or historical. However Amina Wadud said that what concerned her most about traditional tafsir is that they were exclusively written by males so this means", "were included but women and women's experiences were either excluded or interpreted through the male vision perspective desire or needs of women and it makes um the quranic interpretation were generated without the participation and first-hand representation of women", "The next category we have reactive it concerned with the issue of women consists primarily of modern scholars reactions to severe handicaps for women as an individual and as a member of society which have been attributed to the tax. Amina Wadud stated that there are many", "banyak perempuan atau orang yang menentukan pesan Al-Quran secara bersama dan status kekurangan wanita dalam masyarakat muslim digunakan sebagai penjelasannya untuk reaksi mereka. Dan metode penggunaan syaitan terbanyak dari ideologi feminis dan rasional saja. Meskipun mereka sering berniat tentang isu valid,", "issue the absence of the comprehensive analysis of the Quran sometimes causes them to vindicate the position of women on ground entirely in congruence with the Quranic position on woman and then the last category we have holistic this category is represented by", "whole method of Quranic exegesis with regard to various modern social, moral, economic and political concerns including the issue of women. This category is relatively new and there has been no substantial consideration of particular issues of women in light of the entire Qur'an and its major principles", "principles and then the second topic is the methodology of hermeneutical model to interpret the holy quran a hermoneutical module is concerned with three aspects of the text in order", "The context in which the text was written In the case of the Quran, in which it was revealed And then the second is the grammatical composition of the text It is how it say and what it say And the last one is the whole text or world view", "Now we come to the last topic. The last topic will be presented by me, Tanjiris Andi In this topic we'll talk about how the perspective on women works in describing gender distinction in Islam", "Jadi sebelum kita menjelaskan tentang distinsi gender dalam Islam, kita harus tahu bagaimana perspektif pada wanita berfungsi di masyarakat ini mengikut Aminah Wadud. Sepertinya, saya bertanya terhadap nilai yang telah ditandakan dengan distinsinya. Nilainya menyebutkan bahwa wanita sebagai lemah, kekurangan, benar-benar jahat, tidak mampu untuk memintanya dan menyukai secara spiritual.", "According to this explanation by Aminah Wadud, we can see how the society values women and this evaluation has been used to claim that women are unsuitable to performing certain tasks or functioning in some way in society. The woman have been restricted to her function related to her biology.", "lebih penting dari wanita. Seperti yang dia katakan, wanita sendiri memberikan kembang kepada anak-anak, melayan mereka dan mengamalkannya pada tahun awal. Selain itu, peraturan sosial ekonomi yang biasa dikatakan sebagai Provinsi Mereka tidak pernah dilakukan secara eksklusif oleh laki-laki. Dan yang berikutnya adalah kita membahas tentang bagaimana pilihan gender dalam Islam.", "It also acknowledge the anatomical distinction between male and female. It also knowledge that member of each gender function in a manner which reflect the well-defined distinctions held by the culture to which those members belong. The Quran does not attempt to annihilate the difference between men and women or to erase", "which helped every society to run smoothly and fulfill its needs. Yet, the mere fact that the Quran was revealed in 7th century Arabia when the Arabs held a certain perception or misconception about women and were involved in certain specific group practice against them resulted in some conjunction specific to that culture", "dan kultur itu dengan itu, saksikan semua presentasi dari grup 18 jika Anda memiliki pertanyaan silakan tulis di WhatsApp saya ingin mengucapkan maaf jika kami melakukan kesalahan dalam penutup ini Saya ingin berdoa kepada Anda. Selamat hari yang baik, selamat tinggal Assalamualaikum warahmatullahi wabarakatuh" ]
amina_wadud/Amina Wadud - sacred text affirms my realities_5ybKd1Lc3O4&pp=ygURQW1pbmEgV2FkdWQgaXNsYW0%3D_1743318171.opus	[ "The issue for me did start off with, I think the feminist articulation of the personal is political. For me personally that is for an African American descended of a Methodist minister and actually of Muslim slaves what does this take away from", "does this text say about my life and my circumstances right here, and right now? And the most wonderful thing was that the text did not exclude me. That the texts affirmed my realities in dimensions that I am still uncovering even today.", "And if somebody were to ask, you know, why are you Muslim? It would be because I had a special relationship with the sacred text." ]
amina_wadud/amina wadud_s comments about the sign prohibiting __1742931989.opus	[ "And so we are dealing with this contradiction between the reality for her, hot, you know dry, abandoned literally running and then the institutions of patriarchy that control not only our notions of Islam but our experiences of Islam when we go through this major once in a lifetime ritual telling us we are not worthy to participate in that way. So that also spurred some new writing on my part. So there are aspects of her story", "her story, which I find really moving and there are aspects of the way that story is passed, which are really troubling. And so most of where I have been working on this paradigm has been in a relationship between the dominance of patriarchal expression that presumes because she believes in God and because she and Ismael also surrendered to God, that somehow we cannot question exactly what was going on there and what the implications are." ]
amina_wadud/Amina Wadud_ Sosok Wanita Pertama di Dunia jadi Im_oMCp-IDT7v4&pp=ygURQW1pbmEgV2FkdWQgaXNsYW0%3D_1742944567.opus	[ "Wibah Lut terkenal lebih banyak dari lelaki yang menghadapi orang lain.", "dikenal publik dengan sebutan Lady Imam. Ia lahir dari sebuah keluarga pendeta Kristen Methodist di negara bagian Maryland, Amerika Serikat. Sebelum masuk Islam, Amina memeluk dan mempraktikan agama Buddha. Ina kemudian masuk Islam saat usianya 19 tahun dan mengucapkan dua kalimat syahadat di masjid tak jauh dari rumahnya di Washington DC. Amina bercerita diskriminasi dan rasisme yang kental saat itu", "Setelah ia masuk Islam. Aminah Wadud meraih gelar dokter dari University of Michigan, Amerika Serikat untuk studi Arab dan Islam. Ia telah menulis sebuah buku tentang Islam namun namanya mulai dikenal luas setelah memimpin Salat Jum'at untuk jamaah laki-laki dan perempuan di New York, Amerika Srikat. Hal itu langsung menimbulkan pro dan kontra di tengah masyarakat. Namun hal itu tak menghentikannya untuk melakukan hal yang sama pada 2008 di Inggris.", "Buku yang ia tulis berjudul Quran and Woman syarat akan nilai kesetaraan gender tapi ia menolak diberi label tersebut termasuk ketika ia memimpin salat Jum'at. Kini Amina telah menetap di Yogyakarta dan mengajar sebagai profesor tamu di beberapa universitas di Indonesia. Beberapa di antaranya adalah UGM dan UWIN Sunan Kalijaga, Yogyjakarta. Indonesia kini menjadi tempat tinggalnya dan menjadi negara favorit Amina." ]
amina_wadud/amina wadud speaks with FITNA _Feminist Islamic Tr_6OJjzMIm00M&pp=ygURQW1pbmEgV2FkdWQgaXNsYW3SBwkJvQCDtaTen9Q%3D_1742935681.opus	[ "Okay, I think I'm just gonna go ahead and begin the intro or at least let people know what's happening. Oh God! I'm actually so nervous. Hello and Assalamu alaikum to everyone who is present and who's watching this. Welcome", "is holding I will introduce fitna in just a sec well actually fitna is FITNA feminist Islamic troublemakers of North America it's an online community that exists to create constructive disruption or trouble making or fitna around gender issues in the Muslim community locally and globally before I introduce myself I want to thank our sponsors for today's event on behalf", "Salma Mirza, Shabana Meir, Saima Dyer, Sarah Rahnama, Nimra Amjad and Khadeeja Meram. Oh that's me I'm sorry I'm hearing something and I am hearing myself because the live is on as well. I've opened Facebook in order to see questions later", "on later. My name is Shahnaz Haqani and I am an assistant professor of religion at Mercer University in Georgia, in the US. My specialty is primarily Islamic studies and I teach courses in Islam, religion generally, Islam specifically sometimes, religion, generally, and gender as well. I'm also a blogger and a vlogger where", "Asian brown woman and I am wearing a maroon, I think this is maroonish shirt. And also my hair is down on my shoulders it probably will be pulled up at some point as well in a bun. I am now going to pass the mic over to Saadia who will introduce herself and then to Amina our guest Dr. Aminah Wadud", "and audio description of herself, I will introduce her. But the way that this works today is that for the first half an hour, Sadia and I will take turns asking Dr. Amina questions. And afterwards about 30 minutes later, the audience will be invited to ask their questions as well. We also have some submitted questions that we're going to be looking at as well Patreon members can stay longer", "more time with Dr. Wadud if they would like. So, Saadia are you here? Yep I'm here. Thank you! I just wanted to begin by thanking Amna Wadu for this opportunity. I first read her book Quran and Woman when i was 16 years old", "my way of thinking as well as my relationship with Islam. So this is just such a tremendous honor to be able to be in conversation with her. My name is Sadia Yaqub, I teach at Williams College up in Western Massachusetts. My research focuses primarily on Islamic law and constructions of gender and sexuality", "attributed to people based on their positioning within particular social hierarchies. I am also one of the co-founders of Fitna along with Shahnaz and Zahra, and in terms of my description so I'm a South Asian brown, South Asian woman.", "I wear glasses. We're trying to make sure that the event is accessible for everybody, so just a little sort of physical description of myself. My hair is tied up. I have a shawl around my neck and I am in the basement of my house. Yeah, so I'll pass it on to Amel Abudh and then hopefully we can begin with questions.", "I begin as I always begin in the name of Allah whose grace I seek in this and all other matters. I am color coordinated with my background, I have on a black scarf with blue understaff and a denim colored blue shirt and I'm going to batik", "I wear my signature jewelry, the hand of Fatima to ward off all the naysayers, takbiri trolls and haters out there. Okay, let me unmute myself. All right so before we begin our questions, I want to take a moment to very briefly introduce Dr Amina Wadud here although she needs no introductions. I do want to make that clear", "make that clear because I think nearly everyone should know her if they don't already you should definitely definitely make an effort to do that. Dr Amina Wadud is one of the most important scholars of all times in an internationally renowned scholar author of The Groundbreaking and Life-Changing which Sadia just mentioned as well a book for so many of us Quran and women rereading the sacred text from a woman's perspective", "the way that we think about Islam, the way we approach the Quran. If you have not already read it please do so very highly recommended. She's also author of Inside the Gender Jihad Women's Reform in Islam and she is also known as The Lady Imam. She received her masters in Near Eastern Studies and her PhD in Arabic and Islamic studies from the University of Michigan. And she also studied advanced Arabic Quranic studies", "commentaries of the Quran and philosophy in Egypt. I'm going to stop there with a introduction because I want to make sure that we'll have some time for questions and so on. So our first question today is, we want to know what your vision for Muslims relationship with scripture and tradition is Dr. Wadud? And actually should I call you Auntie Amina or Dr.Wadud.", "for Auntie Amina. So what is your vision for Muslims relationship with scripture and tradition? And I would especially, you know, I don't want to limit you. You can talk about because I was going to say maybe highlight sort of what your vision or Muslim women's relationship, what scripture and traditional might be but you can talk a lot generally as well. Thank you for this first question in the area that I love most which is sexual analysis.", "I believe that if you trace the history of human creation, you will realize we are at the very tip of the creation of the entire universe and that language is the most recent development for us. So communication in language from a divine source to human beings is a very special part of our capacity to be able to be human and yet it's not the sum total.", "that we defer to text in order to be able to not only receive the guidance but to act upon it, but that we also interact or engage rigorously with texts in relationship to what we call our lived reality. In other words for the period of time where the Quran was revealed, for example, the institution of slavery was not only commonplace but it was accepted. It's unacceptable today", "unacceptable today. So that means we have to have a dynamic relationship realizing sometimes the manner in which we achieve the virtues and values, ultimate principles or ethical trajectory of the Quran is not literally going to be exactly the same as it was received in 7th century, 17th century or 27th century. So I hope we keep that dynamic relationship. I want the Quran in my life and in the life of all generations after me but at the same time", "at the same time I don't want it to be some kind of a prison that disallows us to be able to achieve its full objective which is peace, harmony, love, light and the like in context where it was not easily discussed in the ways in which we experience it five centuries from now. Thank you for that response Auntie Amina.", "very importantly emphasize that there's a lot more, you can also read more about this kind of approach to the Quran and scripture generally in her book, Quran and Woman, rereading the sacred text from a woman's perspective. Sadia, you could ask your question? Yeah thank you so much for that Aunty Amina. Just to follow up on that one of the things I think", "I think, uh, I was thinking about is, uh...I know for you in your own intellectual journey as well as the kind of response from the community. You have dealt with a lot of these issues and so I wanted to get your thoughts on this. One of the things that I've noticed is that it's very hard to figure out how to strike that balance between critiquing", "our intellectual tradition, while at the same time critiquing the ways in which the discourse about the oppressed Muslim woman gets picked up to target the community. And from what I've seen and I think your experience as well as experience of others is that the minute you pose a critique of the intellectual tradition", "that you are somehow contributing and agreeing with these other forces that are targeting the community, and precisely the name of women's rights and sexual equality. So I wanted to get your thoughts on how you sort of think about striking that balance, and also how we might deal with some of these responses? There can be no Islam without people, and people belong to communities", "The idea that the community is a closed, eternal unit and therefore can collectively be under the same amount of siege from forces outside of the community, is not one I adhere to. Rather, I see they are diverse communities and that the possibility of affirming those of us who have been marginalized or lived in subaltern relationships", "neoconservative communities, which sometimes gets to be flagged as the bell community is problematic from my perspective. Instead I want to continue to embrace the notion that communities are dynamic and diverse contradictory and as such there will be contradictions and those contradictions will be fodder in the hands of those who are against Islam, against Muslims", "it is not a criteria in other words i don't worry about whether or not when i say something it will then be picked up and used by people who hate Islam because there are people who have Islam and they will probably continue to be people who had Islam until there is actually unity among all humans on the planet and that won't be on the basis of any particular community so I like to you say that um and especially do this because I think of", "transparency in the community with the idea that somehow the community again is a closed unit, but then needs to be protected from some all-seeing enemy out there. It's just not a notion that I adhere to rather we need to be struggling within all of our communities in order to make them open to all that are different from the ways in which that term of community has been articulated in practice and at the same time", "in making sure that they challenge the weaknesses within themselves and and that requires some vulnerability, but that also requires some transparency even with regard to the weakest component of the classification of that closed network. Yeah I really love thank you so much for that response. I love this point that you're making about who gets seen as the community and first recognizing the diversity of the communities but then also", "but then also that, and I feel like this is so much of the response that I have often seen as there's a sort of responsive like well you know the community does not agree with you or we are on the peripheries of the community. So I really appreciate you sort of pointing out the dynamics of in the power dynamics of who defines what the community is. Absolutely. Who gets to define who the community", "Assumption that whoever is claiming making these very generalized statements You know the assumption that we're all in agreement about that to begin with this is always very troubling Okay, so our other my next question is In your career as a scholar as a mentor and what are some challenges that you have faced? Some lessons that you learned that you might Want to pass on to especially younger generations of Muslim women", "Muslim women, Muslim scholars activists and just Muslim women who are struggling with many of the same stuff that you have already endured. I think probably the biggest challenge was in relationships and I have over the course of the last almost 50 years shifted various corners of how I understand the significance of relationship and been located in", "in those different corners at different times in my life and when I had a different relationship with myself because i'm talking about relationships, and a different relationtionhip with my creator. Nobody ever told me that if you want to sustain yourself in Islam in the context of relationship with communities that you need to on a daily basis realign your relationship with yourself", "ideas, your actions, your study, your research or production, your art and your spirituality, your family, your diet everything. You need to realign that on a daily basis with your Lord. The emphasis was always prioritizing relationships with various communities and me being a Libra I was always trying to get approval sanction love support from", "from community sometimes to the degree at which I might have been compromising an eternally necessary and daily confirmed relationship with Allah. Again, there is no Islam without people. There is no religion in any form without people, and so communities and networks are really important at the earthly level at which we practice them", "them but if we don't build in a mechanism whereby we check-in with ourselves and with our Lord, we will be walking around with a kind of skewed you know sort of even bodily deformed kind of relationship with ourselves. And it's very difficult because of course we are part", "at some point um i remember i don't know sadia remembers this but sometimes in the midst of having a certain problem i would say to her things like well allah must really love you and the thing is that allah does not try a person greater than they have the capacity to endure and sometimes when we face what seems to be an insurmountable and i'd also believe that there are unsurmounted oppression so", "wrong with it more fully but sometimes when we face certain things, we're so disappointed. We're so pushed back that we don't know what to do and so to instead accept that as a confirmation that there is a special kind of love for us that Allah is giving and the special kind or nurturance for the highest good, for the greatest well-being not only of ourselves but for community", "setbacks in the context of community. So that again, we end up with a dynamic relationship with community but the basis of that is our checking-in with ourselves, our souls and our Lord. Thank you for that. That's such a beautiful reflection on the importance of that relationship with Allah SWT and that sort of being the mediating factor in our relationship with Community because I mean as", "I feel like you have faced such tremendous negative response from the community despite the fact that, you know, you have worked with so much love for that community really. You know it's just so important to think about how it is that we sort of nurture ourselves spiritually. So in that line, I wanted to ask...", "I feel like in my conversations with people, especially around gender and sexuality issues in relation to Islam. I've gotten sort of two things that people have asked me one end of it is people who feel like because of the things that they are being told in community spaces or things that They are reading about what it is that quote unquote Islam says", "with holding on to faith, this feeling that if truly this is what Islam says then I simply cannot believe in it. On the other hand, I also meet other people who feel like you know to them their relationship with Islam is something that they really don't...they can't imagine anything outside of it but all of these ideas about what it is that Islam says that they're being told that they find very difficult", "that they feel spiritually unconnected. They feel like they want to be able to pray, to read Quran, to access a sense of connection to God but feel like all of these things that are being told become sort of a barrier. So I wanted to ask in your own journey thinking about and dealing with and writing about these issues how have you nurtured yourself spiritually? And what advice would you give", "would you give to people who feel like they're either in a situation where they are feeling like I'm just totally struggling to even believe in a psalm or people who for me, the belief is not something that I'm really struggling with. It's the spiritual connection advice that you might have for them as well as reflections on your own journey. Love to hear that. Yeah, I have what might be unique or interesting relationship", "because I am born the daughter of a Methodist minister and I never had a negative experience with my Christianity. And yet, I understood at a very early age that religions were diverse so I went from Christianity fully to Buddhism fully and I still practice meditation or Ruach HaVa which is an Arabic word for meditation", "and I never had a negative experience with Buddhism. So how is it that I'm in Islam at all? And how is that it's my choice? And I'm fairly certain, despite naysayers, that it will be my choice from now on. That is...I really prioritize the matter of choice.", "sometimes you know two three hours and I've had to learn how to embrace those you know sort of empty hours. I don't get up to work, I might read a novel but um you know I also don't thanks over them which only makes it worse. But i used to think that when I woke up at 3 o'clock you know the clock set for 5 30 that I was waking", "the reason why i used to think that is because uh to be quite frank at three o'clock in the morning there's no bullshitting yourself if you don't feel a connection if you do not feel the connection if your are aware of it does not permeate your entire being then you don t have the connection you cannot call on it at 3 o clock", "morning absolute transparency between myself and Allah as the measurement of the deep level of satisfaction that I have in nurturing that relationship with Allah, as opposed to the things I do in the light of day. The things I'm doing you know amenable and embracing and loving congregational settings, the things like nature etc etc so I really recommend what Sufis call muhasibah which is self-introspection", "self-introspection that you take the opportunity to check in with yourself and with your Lord but also because community has already shown itself to be a prominent feature of these discussions here, but also find other persons with whom you can discuss", "meaning with I don't want to say just approval because sometimes I need somebody that kind of pushed me along and sometimes I push along people because you know I say in the ante role I'm allowed to be the diva you know it's like okay I'm gonna take it I'm just going to tell you I'm not gonna pussyfoot around I'm soft but just gonna say it okay so yes people need to be motivated in communities as well", "you can resonate at the level of your soul's struggle because we're not solitary believers. So, we want community and I have been a part of small and larger sized groups who have intentionally invoked the notion of a sacred space and of sacred practices for the sake of confirmation", "been the greatest pleasure of my life and that's one reason why it is that I no longer adhere to a notion of some kind of big community out there because mostly the community in the way in which its used popularly, is not the communities that I've been with. And yet these are communities you know so there is both the solitary part of the journey and there is also but connecting or networking with other souls", "need to be confirmed, but also those that are struggling in ways in which you need to challenged to grow. But not at communities who find that their number one characteristic is how they create a closed box and that everybody outside of this box is therefore not a member of the community. You don't want to be in a box. What you want to", "that you know, you want to be nurtured but you don't want to closed into a box. But also eventually you understand that your job is enhanced with the capacity for you to also nurture others so you give to the community, you take from the community and to understand", "And fortunately, we have this reality of sort of virtual relationships. My community has very rarely been located at the same space where I am physically. I have networked with people with the value of living in a digital age it's become easier. So my community is never really closed. We don't share a common language sometimes you know, common geographical boundary", "but it's kind of a transient thing, which is my personality. So I really think it's important for people to understand that your community, your home, what queer people call you know, your chosen family awaits you. But the way for you to find it is to be you, to be yourself and in being yourself to understand the importance of nurturing yourself mind body and spirit.", "love to have conversations about certain topics that some people are just like too far on the nerdy end you know so i need people to talk to at that nerdy in and I find them you know uh and I listen to them as well you know. So make sure it is reciprocal, so that you learn how you give nurturance to the community and that you take nurturance from the community but the community itself may not be fixed and it may overlap with other aspects of your soul's", "I just feel there's a bunch of concentric circles and the only thing that is in the center of all the circles is yourself. So you gravitate towards those that do political activism to the satisfaction of your soul's need, but they may be a little bit reticent with regard to say spirituality or the spiritual community maybe intellectually a little redundant or the intellectual community may be A little bit barren in terms of spirituality and activism so i have found that those are the three main areas", "three main areas for me and that the people that I share the community with overlap sometimes but most of the time I might get two in one but out you know will not get three. And I've learned to accept that because nine billion or eight billion people in the world takes all types, so that means that there has to be a type out there that is the same as you in some aspects. Yeah thank you for that", "especially this focus on community and the importance of community. And I think you've said this several times that, to be... That religion is so deeply communal, to being in community as a big part of that cultivation of your spiritual self. And, I often reflect on the fact that when I was growing up and was part of communities", "the mosque. There's so much, not only the spiritual cultivation by having that space where everybody is praying together or you're just kind of getting together to hang out it's not necessarily even like activities around prayer but it just gives you a sense of not being an outsider whereas I feel like in my own journey I've noticed that the more I have moved away from those communities because of the way that I understand Islam", "of some, you know the more at points I start to feel like am i the only one and if I'm the only then how can I be right? Right. And so it makes such a huge difference to have community and like I was saying for me when I was a young teenager reading your book was so transformative for me for precisely that reason because I felt like I am not the only", "like yes absolutely and you know, so it becomes so important to cultivate community. To not only have people that you can connect with spiritually but also to not feel this feeling of maybe there's no place for me in Islam because there is no community. And look at how it has led itself to the creation of Fitna. So what I was saying about you not only want to take on community but you want to give.", "understand if I want to be able to help provide something within the larger context of humanity, then it's okay for me to organize myself around certain principles, certain ideas and certain motivations in a collective. You don't even need a large collective really especially in today's digital world because you provide for others. There is a 16 year old who comes across Svitna on Facebook and they say oh there are others so what goes around comes around.", "You don't just feel good, okay now I found my community. You also say you know what? Let me make this community available to others because others will be in need of it. The amount of questions that I get when I used to blog more actively but from Muslim women who are struggling and we're gonna actually see some of those questions today. We have a lot of great questions from audience", "in advance. Some questions are very specific and some questions are more general, but this idea of community the number of women who either lead Islam or who are on the verge, but then they find something like fitna or something like Muslim feminist blog or The Network. And then they are like whoa there's other people like me, there's that these questions are being asked and that's for me too. The Quranin woman was very transformative because I also learned oh I don't have to reinvent the wheel someone else has already", "and they've struggled. And I think one of the most important things that I've learned in this journey, my journey towards Islamic feminism is it's okay to struggle. It's okay have those questions and it's so good to even say you know what? I'm troubled by this particular reality, this particular interpretation etc., and that either I will hopefully discover the answer over the course of this journey or somebody else will and they will share it with me but the bigger point being we're all in", "collectively trying to reimagine the kind of world that we want to live in, that you want to produce and nurture for them for the coming generations but also for ourselves. We have a lot of really great questions I wonder I also am interested in I don't know if we'll get all of these but we have somebody asking how do young Muslim women fight patriarchy misogyny and male chauvinism", "is used to justify those same things? I mean, I'm pretty sure a lot of people have that same question. How do we fight it within our own homes? So within the birth family location, sometimes you find that you become the teacher for another generation ahead of you and sometimes they're reluctant students", "And so I recommend two things. You keep plugging at it with them, with love and you keep plugging edit with humor. It's really important for you to understand that while this is serious business sometimes tongue-in-cheek the only way you're going to get across is by your kind of making a joke", "that's just that old patriarchy stuff, you know? Because really repetition has the ability to transform. So if you're calling your dad every now and then in terms of patriarchy, if you say oh yes, that's that's this benevolent patriarchy. You know it's like it's still patriarchy but it's benevolent. In other words, it's well-meaning but it is still hegemonic. I think that there can be learning. Obviously", "your birth location is the one from which you feel it's necessary to do these kinds of challenges back. And that's why I say, you do it with love and humor but again I always go back to at some point you need to take stock with yourself because maybe the capacity to change the generation before", "will not be achieved in your lifetime or by your applying efforts to have it happen so you need also to know how to pull back and nurture yourself but of course because it's our blood families we want to see that there is some reciprocity, in other words they are listening to us and that we are working with them in order for", "I have such an intimate relationship with the queer Muslim community, I also know that sometimes it's unfortunately fatal complete. You just cannot... you can't get the acceptance there to absolutely reject you, throw you out of a house, wish you dead, that kind of thing and I don't want to overlook the extreme cases but I", "let's not complicate it too much. Let's just say, it's a Muslim woman who decides to marry a non-Muslim man and the family rejects...the marriage rejects her but you know you have mechanisms in civil society to go ahead and do that to get married I said trust me by time we have grandchildren they will come back around because there's something magical about the third generation with regard to the first generation usually they soften up a little bit", "I guess I should add a third component love humor and patience try to treat them the way you would like to be treated so when I say the way he would like it also challenging yourself to come up to a higher level not just staying put I have this position and this is the right position because then that's replication but challenge them the", "love, respect and love as well. Um, but then, um, don't, um I mean I take a lot of energy from the idea that you know there's no power or strength except in Allah. And one of the times I use it is whenever I watch a scary movie at night by myself like I did last night because it's like okay now I have to turn off the lights and say there's", "certain principles and certain trajectories that I can become impatient and intolerant. It's just like, okay they don't get it and that's it you know? So I think it's important to come back and say to yourself, you know, it's not me that makes them open up. It is only a law that opens the heart so I will continue with love humor and patience to the extent to which it becomes...it does not become destructive for myself.", "Thank you for that, Anteamna. And especially in terms of these three very clear points of how to think about it relating to family and I know this is a conversation that's been ongoing for the past several months even in relation to issues of race for those of us that are from Arab and South Asian backgrounds where there is so much anti-Blackness", "with that and how to push them. So your advice is so appreciated on so many levels. I wanted to, so there were several questions that we received that I wanted kind of put together and ask you. A lot of them have to do with things that generally people are told is women's position in relation to a psalm. So there was some questions asking about why is it that women cannot visit the graveyard? Why is, how do we understand", "do we understand sex slavery in Muslim history? How do we other things that are being told about women cannot thread their eyebrows, women cannot do X, Y and Z things. Women can not travel alone. I mean there's all kinds depending on the sort of communal and familial spaces you're a part of different people hear different things. And so people were asking", "I wanted to ask you what your response is in terms of when people are being told that XYZ is what Islam has to say in relation to women and they immediately feel like there's something wrong with this, that it's hard for me to accept this but then at the same time feel like i'm not supposed to put my own feeling forward. I am supposed to accept what Allah has decreed and people are telling me that this is what Allah", "you know, how can they balance what it is that they're feeling versus what it's being told and how can the trust or not trust these responses that they are having? How should they sort of position themselves vis-a-vis these kinds of things that people are constantly told in the community that they feel like it's very hard to accept. The first time I lived in Southeast Asia, in Malaysia", "teaching at the International Islamic University and a mother of five, including a newborn. I brought my daughter there when she was six weeks old. So I was always negotiating with the inside home help. And that usually meant that I had to have way more of the local language than you know, I was acquiring quickly enough. And I remember preparing for prayer in my usual fashion", "pray because my feet are not covered and I thought well how much language will I need in order to explain to her that there are different opinions across the various you know schools of thought or method uh i mean how much knowledge can I articulate in a language which I have limited facility so I basically just said they don't do that everywhere um and I found that again you know I said already earlier", "that I'm a transient person, of a wanderer. I go from place to place which is why lockdown just about drives me crazy. I find that getting affirmation by the ways in which people practice and sustain their Islam in other contexts of other cultures, other schools of thought and other levels of religiosity, I find a great deal of comfort in that.", "very happy with non-fixed boundaries. So I identify now as an eclectic Muslim, because it's okay because I can make confirmation about the Jewish heritage of one of my grandchildren because his mother, my daughter was married to a Polish Jewish so therefore this child has those identities and I can confirm that identity.", "need the doors of Islam to just be a continuation of closed spaces. So sometimes when you're facing something and you find that it's not working for you, again referring to the Prophet's statement, take fatwa from your heart, take an opinion in an understanding", "is not one with which you are immediately clear or satisfied, or can understand. Defer judgment. I think I've done a very lengthy study on this using Khaled Aboufadl's work about the need for a conscientious pause and the purpose of the conscientious cause is not just to be in a static location but rather to say it's okay if i don't have a confirmed opinion on this matter", "this time I may feel disagreement with the standard position being advocated or I may not accept the way in which I see this thing articulated within the sacred text it may not work for me at all. I think that's a healthy place where to take this conscientious pause but as the word pause emphasizes,", "You must compare, you must seek out and compare the various forms of practice and opinions with regard to the matter. And come to a place where you can confirm your own, take your heart to confirm your location. I think that knowledge is power and yet I'm very clear not everybody wants to go through the rigorous locations that you guys have chosen or that I chose for example", "toes for example to you know actually qualify yourself to be a scholar in islam not everybody wants to take that route but i think that if it is a really persnickety issue that uh it deserves the time in other words if you're not satisfied with it you have the alternative to simply turn your back on it and sometimes for people turning your back means bath with the baby you turn your whole entire backbone i mean", "it or been told it exists, um, or you simply turn from that particular aspect. You just do nothing. You sort of say I don't agree with that and then that's that. Knowledge is power but also knowledge has the capacity to be produced. And new knowledge can be produced so you could be the person who finds an ability of articulating a nuance", "that will actually liberate a lot of other people who when they come across that passage or that practice find that they are stymied in their ability to be able to say I accept this. Okay? So, I think it's okay...I also think that it builds character in one's Islam when they allow themselves to be at odds even with something that is popularized or dominant for majority or whatever", "then you have the opportunity to see whether or not you are sincere before your Lord. In other words, do you just continue to do things because people say well that's Islam and your parents say that that's islam? Or do you say wow if that's Islm where am I located with regard to Islam when i already feel some hesitation or even outright non-acceptance", "acceptance or rejection on my part. I think it builds character because for me, as I said, as a Muslim by choice, it's clear to me that I cannot choose something that I have dissatisfaction with and yet I find over the course of you know almost 50 years that I've been Muslim that I'm being dissatisfied with a few things here and there and then you see", "how we come to codifications of things that we call Islam or how we assert authority over things that would call this law, or how he closed off doors with regard to what we consider to be Islam. That's been my life force and the prospect that I would come up against something that again is pernicious. I accept, I accepted there are new challenges and I embrace them. I embraced the ambiguity. I embrace the unknowing. I embracing doubt", "the doubt and by embracing all of them it is possible for me to say well maybe I can erase that that adult because I gather new knowledge or I gather knowledge from a new perspective or I gathered new lived realities as a measurement of how opinions should be amplified and codified in the context of community so I continue", "And then I check in with my heart and I check-in with my, you know, sort of network of friends and family and community until I come to a place that is less complicated. My most recent research was the three year research on sexual diversity and Islamic primary sources.", "acceptance of ambiguity. That there are some things for which even in your greatest effort you cannot remove the ameliable articulation of that thing, in sacred text let alone in practice. So I came to embrace the ambiguity and now what I'm trying to do is to promote an understanding of ambiguity as a form of affirmation.", "thing that you know I'm trying to build but it was great because all the work that I did on gender, I came back with a lot of definitive answers and that was like affirming right? I had to push my way through a lot patriarchy to get there. You know I do a lot night journeys and I have to do a lotta you know but the answers came back in affirmation while working on sexuality a lot", "that's the point uh so i received another dimension in the faith and knowledge journey um and and so the job now for me is to be able to share it and articulate it in as many spaces as i can thank you for that auntie anna that's such a beautiful uh point that you're making about accepting ambiguity because i feel like so many of us are raised with this idea that to believe means to have absolute certainty", "it that I believe it and when people say well, I can't believe that oftentimes the response is it's okay if you can't but you still have to say that you believe it right. And then of course it leaves you with this feeling of like but I don't and then there's something wrong with me and there's Something wrong with my faith somehow we don't seem to have the idea that doubt ambiguity and Faith can all be tied into one another such a beautiful point Thank you, and that all of this is we're on a journey right?", "now we don't have to decide right now what is the what is a correct belief or what I want to believe. We as humans are evolving, our ideas are evolving our knowledge is evolving and you have to keep all of that in mind and so even I think even with something like how do we communicate with our families? How do we just how do talk about these difficult issues with their families and communities basically intimate spaces? I think one of my own responses is sometimes", "kind of time comes and you have to very, very, you have be very careful about what questions you're willing to discuss with your family. In my case I can't discuss just any questions, just any topic and so as you have too be very care full about what you are willing to lose I guess whether it is okay for them to, I don't know accepting you a certain way and so on but the point being we're all on this journey in very different ways and you don't have to make decisions that way so ambiguity becomes really important.", "important. We have a question that is about your title as the lady Imam, so I want to say we have a lot of questions and comments here and most of the questions are prefaced with something like a thank you to Dr Amin Awadud and people are talking about how much they've changed, how much your work has changed them, so we want to collectively thank you for that as well. And then one question is thank you so much for sharing your knowledge again", "and experience. Can you talk more about the title, your title, The Lady Imam? And tell us how you chose it. Who do you believe should use the title imam? And if you know of others who use the lady imam or something similar. Okay so I promised that i would try to keep answers short um and it's funny because I somewhat anticipated this one at least it was on my mind so", "1994 when I was first invited to go outside of what I knew and understood in terms of women's relationship to collective spiritual practices, worship devotion in Islam by getting an invitation to give a khutbah or pre-khutbah which is a sermon at a mosque in Cape Town South Africa. It was so far off my radar that I needed to go back and do some work and that worked with me ten years", "10 years. So the next invitation that I accepted, because I got some subsequently was to do the khutbah, that is the sermon and be the Imam, that stand in front of perform the prayer for the Friday Prayer in a collective in New York. That was 2005. At that time it was my first experience with the media and it's not comfortable fit for me one because I'm long-winded and two", "one-on-one worship. I like my spiritual time by myself but again, I accepted it because something had happened in me in those 10 years so after 2005 it took me another ten years before I accepted to identify myself as the Imam now notice the word imam is masculinized", "because the feminine form of it is to just add the feminine ending of permabuta. So say imama, I reject that instead, I will be my own hybrid self. I will Imam which is the generic term in Arabic for the one who stands in front to help organize the communal collective prayer and I will lady because I am a cisgendered female", "And so I came up with the lady Imam and I started to promote myself along the way. So you see it was a journey, and in that I accepted that there are for example women who prefer to identify themselves as imamah, that's fine, that is their choice. I don't choose that one but I don' have any objection to it. I have objections for example of being called sheikha which is the Arabic word for literally old man", "and that is because I see problems in how the term sheikh is used in Arabic, and how the terms ajus which means old woman is used an Arabic. And I want to keep that tension so I don't want to be called that. I don' t wanna be called ustazah. I dont want to take anything that is generically masculinized and put a feminine ending on it but i love the lady imam because it was just as you said Shafna, it was a journey", "asked to do something in 1994 and walk away you know with an avatar, I had to wait 25 years before it fit me. And it fits me individually. There are other lady imams and their imamas. I don't know whether or not...I have yet come across someone who takes the particular dialectic that i use between English and Arabic because I feel that I belong there.", "languages one because of my study the other because of birth so it fits me I'm very happy with it I wish I could you know get a million followers and all my forms of social media behind it but there's something about what happens in the digital world that quite familiar with but for me the first step was to be to come to some kind of acceptance of its own thank you", "I want to say that the livestream will officially be ending at 9.30 or 9. 30 p.m eastern and 8, oh my gosh 6. 30 pm in Pacific and so what's going to happen before that happens and in case Zadia has another question that she wants to ask we do have some other questions from the audience as well. I want", "from onyx interpreting and our captioner is emily niles from acs uh and just as a reminder zoom folks are welcome to stay on and um the just the live stream will be cutting in five minutes um nadia you can go ahead yeah i so i wanted to ask one of the questions that was asked on the on the fitna page that i would love to also hear your thoughts on and the questioner was asking", "asking that a lot of Muslims and then also non-Muslims think that contemporary critical reinterpretations of the tradition are marginal and irrelevant, and that they do not have a real impact on the larger communities of Muslims. So they're seen as elitist or exceptionalists in nature. Do you think it is possible to enhance the impact that this progressive view could have on mainstream Muslim communities? And what solutions", "do you see to make this type of knowledge more accessible to Muslims or to be more comprehensible to the quote-unquote masses for those who often use that kind of distinction? Yes, when queer Muslims and women... When queer Muslims started the inclusive mosque initiatives and women started the Women's Mosque Movement I used to tell them if you build it they will come. I think if you generate knowledge", "knowledge, it will... It's going to be out there. And because it's out there, it means it's accessible to people to sort of do a give and take and play with it in such a way that they come to not only greater comprehension but also they come too great application. In other words coming to an understanding that will help to reform policies and procedures and laws and culture and practices and the like", "like. But eventually there are ways in which some grand scheme, and I would agree elitist kind of articulation can be to use a word that I hate dumbed down but i think that some things will become mainstream when i started working on the Taohidik paradigm which was about 2009 i remember because i remember the first powerpoint that i made i was giving a talk for conference in denmark", "in Denmark. When I first started working on that, but I'd worked on it before then since the PowerPoint really consolidated it. When i first you know started working On it The discussion was so deep it was so intense Now it's something I can cover in five minutes. I can say for everybody especially because of the graphics I can present it to everybody in a way That's more accessible So sometimes it is necessary when you have an intellectual tradition as", "tradition as deep and as rich um as islamic intellectual history you need to challenge at that level. And then, you need simplify it or sort of make it more accessible I think because i make a distinction between Islamic feminism and Muslim feminism the distinction is that Islamic feminism is actually able to engage", "intellectual level and willing to. But Muslim feminists, they sort of take anything. They take it from liberal Western traditions. You take it for Islamic feminism. They pick it from secularism. They think whatever. And so that means that it's more accessible because you don't have to have a rigorous kind of intellectual component to identify yourself as feminist. And I believe in that give and take. I would be lying as a person who", "whose intellectual experience has itself, you know, sort of gravitated towards that more complex level. I would be lying if to say what is recognized as elite is therefore negative or bad. Rather, I understand that the highest-level intellectual engagement is a necessary part", "into sort of the mainstream thought. And as they work their way to the mainstream, there will be new aspects of it that will come in that will start to make it more accessible to much more diverse types of audiences. So I believe in an interplay. I was fortunate in this respect because when I came to Malaysia in 1989, I met with the women who would become sisters in Islam and now they're more than 30 years old. And they helped me to think practically", "and sort of policy wise with ideas that were simply abstracting theology. And I still gravitate towards the abstract theology, I've missed this space and I love that shit you know? So it is necessary for me to be in a network of people who will help to communicate the ideas to much more diverse audiences and that's been my pleasure, that's", "the tendency towards thinking of this as being elite, but I don't give it up for that reason. I instead contribute from where it is that I can contribute, but i have the pleasure of the experience of seeing that level become more mainstream and become more accessible so I believe in the interplay. Okay thank you so much for that response as well. It is 9 10 30", "9.33 p.m eastern and our let's see, our ASL interpreter is gone and our captioner is also gone. And the live stream has stopped. Right and the Facebook live stream is also yes has just stopped as well and so we want to be cognizant for accessibility reasons I am not sure should we go ahead and stay on Zoom for a bit?", "for a bit or not would that be I don't know maybe the gallery can sort of give some feedback and also because I don' t know how you're choosing the questions except based on those that you seem that you could communicate most effectively but if there are specific questions from those who are still in the gallery we can kind of shift that's just a thought yeah", "Yeah, and I did share the Zoom link on the live in the comments of the... So people have, I think a couple of people have signed in from there. Okay great. And so now people are welcome to ask their own questions and we can just have a non-live streamed conversation.", "As-salamu alaykum Amita. I don't have my picture on because I'm working in heat so I'm not dressed as modestly as I would like to be otherwise, but my question for you is in the United States I'm sure you're familiar of major demonstrations that are occurring and result to some actions and leadership", "leadership from a movement for black lives and i wonder if you could share a little bit about how you feel i know you're out of side of the country but i also know you have experience with racism and sexism and whatnot in the united states can you give a sense", "Is it different with Islam's focus on justice, wherever you position it in out anywhere? Yeah. It's really important I think to think about this nexus. In other words as a black American Muslim, I share in the history of all of Black America and I resonate with the Black Lives Matter movements", "the counter effects of those leading to higher levels. As a Muslim, I identify the necessity for struggles of justice or struggles against oppression in all forms as inherent in Islam and so for me it is a no-brainer. I remember and I kind of like the years in which you know brown Muslims would tell me there's no racism in Islam", "the Muslim communities in America, we have been saying this for at least almost 50 years that I've been Muslim. We need some honest discussion. We meet some real confrontation and we definitely need advocacy. One of the things that I do when I work with queer Muslims who are often very traumatized in their experiences were coming to their identities as both Muslim and queer", "and clear is I tell them there's no single issue of social justice matter. So don't just go out after the issues that relate to sexuality, and your Muslim identity but rather take up also issues that are on the forefront of others for other reasons so that you show yourselves", "oppression work across a lot of different fronts. And so it is not to deny that there are particular issues with regard to race, that need to be addressed but rather to align all anti-oppression movements so that there is an intersection between you know, race, ethnicity, gender, sexuality ableism class etc., and I think it should be ongoing", "It is to my great disappointment that you know almost 50 years as a Muslim and we still have to address this in the context of the Muslim American community And I'm disappointed enough that I find that I'm not keeping up with my own recommendation for patience and humor. I just not there yet. I Find that I am angry about it, and I'm angry that it has to come up again", "has to come up again. I have made very specific comments in the past few weeks with communities that I'm still connected to about their exercising privilege over certain issues, and you know, I'm angry and I'm upset, so I hear you, and I also hear that the context of American Muslims which I would like to think are really progressive but they're not reminds me", "apartheid struggles in South Africa 25 years ago when I, you know 26 years ago, I first went there because it was only the progressive Muslims who understood that we need to also be fighting apartheids because the conservative mainstream community said that's not our issue. It's political of course when the apartheit was over that same conservative community wanted to make themselves as the representatives", "And the progressive said, no you weren't there. You were sitting on your laurels. So that's what's going to happen and I hope it happens soon that we understand that unless the main bodies, the majority populations which are currently neo-conservative Muslim communities take this bull by the horn and really engage in frank discussions about race they'll just be left behind. Thank you Amina.", "some African American Muslim communities, when we think about the election down ballot elections that are coming up and the presidential election in November. And those who are just fearful of that it won't matter another time I'm working with Engage to empower change I should say on their Million Muslim", "million Muslim voter campaign and just trying to get African-American Muslims in greater numbers, to move into leadership positions is quite a challenge. I'll just say that. Well, I will send you my prayers because I see how resistant we are to it because if it is not effective in the past, how do we have hope in the future? And I just refer", "president who said you know keep hope alive we have to and we have go the process thank you so the gallery is allowed to ask their own questions now so we sort of changed format I didn't know that was going to happen so please take advantage of the opportunity before we sign off in about 20 minutes if anyone prefers", "submit their questions via chat they're welcome to private message me and I'd be happy to read them out loud. And if we don't have any, if people want us think about their questions we can I can still ask something from previous okay so while you go ahead and think about your questions um we have another question that I think this person said", "question as it doesn't seem super relevant to the conversation so far but I'm just wondering what is your biggest source of hope for our world right now? It feels like humanity is self-destructing. Where do you direct yourself, your hopeful energy? I have thought about this question because I am also experienced many moments of despair and I recently had a post that I put on Facebook about Allah's conversation with the angels when they said", "said you know will you create this human when they're going to cause chaos and destruction and I'm like I see what the angels was talking about even Allah says I know but you do not know and I still don't know what it is that a lot of you because I'm very disappointed in humanity at this time however I am also the grandmother to six children and when you see the living generation", "realigned yourself with prospects of hope so in other words as dismal as things may be I have to remind myself uh to keep hope alive um and i'm going to tell you very specifically how I do it. It's very personal but you know, I don't have generic advice to other people. Um I practice intentional gratitude", "But I'm a glass half empty. Even if it's only one quarter empty, I will notice what's missing. That's my critical tendency. So I have to realign myself with the good things. So i get up in the day and I do my ritual practices. And in fact, I try from the moment that I wake up make a positive affirmation. Alhamdulillah, I woke up. Alhumdulilah, I am still breathing.", "you know be cranky or sleepy or whatever I try to remember little things you know the kittens that were born across the street that decided to come and sleep on my porch for a couple mornings I don't know what you know I tried to remember good things because the energy from the remembrance of those good things kind of zikr", "reaffirm yourself for the long haul, for the journey, for struggle. And some people recommend that you find three things at the end of each day, you know, that you say I'm happy that today I did live Zoom with Fitna or something like that. You know, I want to be honest, I haven't been disciplined on that one but I'm just trying to say that there are different formulas so what I do is in my own kind of personality it's", "it's not uniform, you know. But I simply try to remember to say what I'm grateful for even if only to myself, you don't write it down or if it's three or whatever and I find that helps especially as I align it with the grandchildren people who have kids under age of five these are kids who have no inkling", "You know, you might say Black Lives Matter. You might say, you know, wear your mask or something like that. But in their heart they have no inkling and yet they are the future. Now I don't believe that hope is only about the future, I believe that Hope is from the moment that we are in currently as a part of the trajectory of the future but I think sometimes when you, you", "and Larisha Wahida, I just had a birthday. I saw on Facebook and I was in a conference with her a number of years ago and she does science fiction writing for social justice advocates. And the question that she asked, I remember because it was the third day of the conference, this is the reason why I'm here. She actually said if you were to imagine the completion of the thing that you are struggling for,", "In other words, what would the world look like when it's done? And then you write a story from that location. Because a lot of us are so wedded to the struggle mentality that all we can think about is in the level of challenge. We also need to think concretely and positively at the level completion of the success of the struggle against that challenge.", "So I remember asking Linda Sarsour, you know what do you see the Muslim community as in the next 50 years? And that's why The Grandchildren for me reminds me in a very concrete way. You know, I need to remember I am not in here just for me. I am part of the human race and all human suffering is my suffering and the alleviation of suffering for all human beings is the alleviating of suffering", "myself and for the matters that I in particular you know have addressed so think positively they progressively work towards those things but work towards them in the now in the present thank you thank you for that auntie Amna um i also think about you know this hadith of the prophet where you know at the end of days even just the planting of a tree right has seen it reminds me so much of", "so much of or that kind of sentiment in this moment where it seems like the future is so bleak. The here and now, what you do in the here and know takes on becomes hope itself and takes on so much meaning. There's another question we had in the chat. Dr. Wadud I wanted to ask how Muslims in North America can decolonize our spaces and religious communities? Also what advice do you have for women of color lady imams hoping to follow in your footsteps?", "All right, so those are two separate questions. I hope I remember both of them when I address and choose to do the one about decolonizing the community first. Yeah, I can repeat the second question if you want. Okay. So while I was still a professor, I would have Muslim students come to me to say that the Muslim Student Association on our campus is so conservative or they do things like", "male members which is not an appropriate location for the you know, the female members to be going at so that you know they kind of like continually replicate the patriarchy and everything. And again if you build it they will come I said there is no need whatsoever for you to stick with only that organization make your own organizations. I believe in the proliferation. I mean it's already happened the proliferation of mosque Islamic centers in the United States is a done deal", "the idea of creating alternative spaces, we actually think that somehow that's a revolutionary or that that's contradictory but it's not. So while I applaud the effort to decolonize and depatriarchize these spaces, I also believe if you build it they will come. I also believed in creating alternative space, alternative organizations and have the confidence to do it.", "do it i actually have a game plan for this which I'm not going to get into because there's a lot of details but I feel that you know the decolonizing of a space sometimes is you're up against so many roadblocks that you extend a great deal of energy but the increments of success are not substantial enough for you to feel that your getting anywhere. So, you might want to think about creating alternative spaces and also alternative sort of mechanisms of response", "I think it's still like with the question about you know, what do you do when it's in your home at your birth family and everything? I think you still need to approach those spaces continually and remind them to disrupt To persist You know, I don't use Styrofoam And when I used to go for public addresses They would always give me a drink in a styrofoil cup and I was saying that you know these things do not biodegrade", "biodegrade you know so that just by using it you're participating in something that's against the environment and I used to say every time I never took a drink without commenting on this cup and once this finally came to me she says you just keep saying eventually they will get it ensuring up they started giving me a real cup instead of giving me the start phone you know. So persistence sometimes is the thing most needed", "essential and it must happen but at the same time don't be afraid to just you know do your own thing okay so the other one was advice for uh lady emails um a lot of people may not know this um so i will say it um i'm into what i call democratization of authority um and it is a kind of de-hierarchizing uh the practice of spiritual leadership", "leadership. Anybody who has the capacity to fulfill the prayer on their own, individually or personally I think should have an opportunity and participate in leading the prayer themselves. It used to be that people would say oh the one with the most knowledge of Quran and i believe there's a reason for that it makes sense except they never applied it when the one was a woman so you know again they were picky", "I think that we need to deconstruct the notion of hedonimity that goes along with our understanding of ritual worship. And that every member of the community should take responsibility to be a leader and that you should practice this in your homes, let your children lead the prayer sometimes for the family, sometimes let your child pray alone, sometimes yourself pray alone. In other words, sort of mix it up.", "Any woman who prays by herself is already the imam. And the question next is, you know, when will you activate that in the context of your friends, your family and your communities? Because to me, the lady imam is not anything anymore. You know, I when I was nervous about it, I didn't take it now. I'm not nervous about, you", "Speaking of leading prayers and doing maybe khutbahs as well, I think there's a is it Friday Fruits or Fruites of Friday? It's a very small community that is that a couple husband and wife are they've started. And I think they just do Zoom prayers or zoom khutbas and they live in their own homes. And it's like if you can watch and then ask some of us fitna to give khutbaas as well so you're welcome", "you're welcome to go ahead and introduce yourself to us, and I'll be happy to let them know that you are interested in doing something like that. Sadia Yaqub had to leave to attend to her daughter, and we have just a few minutes left anyway. Do we have any more questions here? While you're looking for the question, I'm going to make a shameless plug. Number one, I have been invited by Salaam Toronto,", "Toronto and I think it's in PB to be the Imam who give the khutbah and to deliver the Sorry, leave the prayer and they get the khuja for their Eid celebration. I need to confirm the dates only because I get confused because over here They have determined that date of the Eid and it's not the same Right now it's the first of August whereas over here We're doing it on the 31st and again our 31st is the first", "the first, you know we're ahead. By the time we get to the first people are still only on their 31st so whatever. So you might want to check that out Salam Toronto or MPB I think they posted for it already and I have started a Patreon page which is at www.patreon.com slash TheLadyImam It is a private space where I don't worry about trolls", "I also give small sessions and individual one-on-one sessions, and I try to keep hope alive. So please do join me there. You can join for as few as $2 a month. And also, I think that the khutbah for Salaam Toronto is probably going to be one of the newest ones you'll probably hear that I believe will talk about Hajrah.", "they always focus on Ibrahim and completely ignore Hajar as part of the story, which is...I don't know how anyone manages to do that but the patriarchy is very creative so it does. Okay, so I'm gonna give people a chance to ask any questions. Anyone here? Okay, somebody said...", "Thank you all for participating.", "Thank you guys and the ASL and the captions person. Thank you very much for your experience. Thank You! Thank you for your time, and also for existing and for enlightening us and for giving us hope and for producing the kind of scholarship that you do so that we know that we have a community in you." ]
amina_wadud/amina wadud talking about _ZINA_2nw6if_7P1I&pp=ygURQW1pbmEgV2FkdWQgaXNsYW0%3D_1742901910.opus	[ "The main word for sin with regard to sexual relations is the word zina. This is a fascinating topic in and of itself, but one of the things that you need to understand is that the understanding of zina has evolved throughout that 1,444 years, and our understanding of it today has not been located. We simply pretend that we all agree to something, and I think we need to interrogate it. Why? Because there was no notion of the idea of consensuality", "Consensual did not even exist in marriage. So a man's right to a woman's genitalia was with almost no condition. One of the conditions would be pregnancy, I'm sorry, it would be on the blood flow after pregnancy and the blood during menstruation that comes out as almost the only condition. A woman was even denied the right to fast just in case her husband went to have sex. So understanding the notion of consensus as we have evolved it also has a legal term is going", "what constitutes Zena or Sins in the context of sexuality." ]
amina_wadud/Amina Wadud Tentang Islam Di Amerika 2_WtFAc_FhaDk&pp=ygURQW1pbmEgV2FkdWQgaXNsYW0%3D_1742922614.opus	[ "Assalamualaikum warahmatullahi wabarakatuh. Kepada yang terhormat Bapak Dr. Adang Kuswaya, selaku dosen pengampu matagudah sejarah pemikiran dan peradaban Islam. KEPADA YANG KAMI HARMATI, KAMU CINTAI DAN KAMUI BANGGAKAN TEMAN-TEMAN SEPERJUANGAN PROGRAM PARSKA SARJANA IN SALA 3. Perkenankan kami, Siti Zulfa,", "Zulfa akan menyampaikan materi tentang Aminah Wadud tentang Islam di Amerika Profil beliau, Aminat Wadid Muslim itu terlahir dengan nama Maria Tesle di kota Batisda Maryland, Amerika Serikat pada tanggal 25 September", "1952 yang mana Aminatawadud termasuk dalam kelompok beber Afrika Amerika kulit hitam yang mana ayahnya adalah seorang metode sementeri dan ibunya juga keturunan dari budi muslim Arab yang mana aminatowadud berpikiran bahwasannya masyarakat barat seperti Amerika dan Eropa terkenal sangat penjujung tinggi nilai-nilai", "tinggi nilai-nilai demokrasi sehingga akan lebih mudah dalam menerima pemikiran dan interpretasi bebas. Tidak terkecuali agama, sayangnya hal ini tidak selalu benar. Aminawadud karena ketertarikannya pada Islam maka beliau pada usia yang ke-20 tahun mendapatkan hidayat", "menerapkan kalimah Zaidat pada tahun 1972 yang mana Aminah wadud sebagai seorang ma'alaf namun ketekunannya dalam melakukan setajik keselaman sangat keras mengenai latar belakang peridikan dan perjalanan karir selain memiliki bahasa Inggris", "Aminata Wadud Muslin juga menguasai beberapa bahasa lain seperti Arab, Turki, Sepanyol, Perantis dan Jerman Beliau menerima gelar PS dari The University of Pennsylvania Antara tahun 1970 dan 1975 Dia juga menerimak gelar MA Pernah belajar Arab Besir di Universitas Amerika Cairo", "di Universitas Cairo, Mesir dan juga mengambil kursus di Filsafat di Universitat Al-Azhar. Beliau pada banyak sekali hal-hal yang telah dilakukannya adalah bagaimana memperjuangkan Islam. Beliu menjadi guru besar setelah Islam pada jurusan Filsrafat dan Agama di Universitet Virginia dan menyelesaikan setadi Universitas Michigan sehingga mendapatkan gelar MA.", "gelar MA kajian telok yang dibuat oleh beliau antara lain adalah kajikan Islam Feminism Islam dan teologi filsafah serta interfaith dialog karya-karya beliau", "Kedua, Inside the Gender Jihad. Dan juga ada beberapa macam artikel. Pemikiran beliau tentang Islam di Amerika yang pertama adanya konsep tawhid, yang mana konsep imam dan kotip perempuan didasari adanya konsep pemikiran Islam dalam hal hubungan timbal bali antara laki-laki dan perembuan dalam semua aspek masyarakat. Yang kedua,", "Yang kedua adalah peran masjid komunitas, yang mana Aminah Wadud juga menyoroti peran Masjid sebagai komunitas Muslim Barat. Masjids juga dianggap sebagai contoh yang tepat yang menggambarkan konflik relasi gender dalam beribadah.", "ibadah adalah hal yang dibolehkan, itu adalah landasan fikih kuno. Karena penelitian yang dilakukan Aminawadud berangkat dari budaya marginalisasi peran perempuan dalam Islam, maka dalam penelitan ia menggunakan pendekatan penafsiran posisi perembuan yang setara dengan laki-laki. Di sini dapat kami simpulkan bahwasannya Aminowadud adalah sebagai seorang intelektual dan seorang feminis", "yang tidak saja berhasil memberikan pengetahuan kepada masyarakat, tapi juga bisa membuat mereka berpikir tentang konsep kesetaraan gender dalam Islam. Pemikir dan aktivis sangat kritis terhadap hak wanita dalam Islam melalui kajian-kajian kritis", "sampaikan pada kesempatan kali ini atas perhatian dan waktunya kami sampaikannya banyak terima kasih" ]
amina_wadud/Amina Wadud Tentang Islam Di Amerika_iRXkExCyfC0&pp=ygURQW1pbmEgV2FkdWQgaXNsYW0%3D_1742917415.opus	[ "Assalamu'alaikum warahmatullahi wabarakatuh. Kepada yang terhormat Bapak Dr. Adang Kuswaya, selaku dosen pengampung mata kuliah Sejarah Pemikiran dan Peradaban Islam. Dan tak lupa pula teman-teman seperjuangan, teman program pasca sarjana", "Di sini saya selaku pemakalah materi Aminah Wadud tentang Islam di Amerika yang akan disampaikan oleh Siti Zulfa dengan nomor Induk Mahasiswa 120-102-00025.", "Aminah Wadud dan apa saja pemikiran-pemikiran beliau tentang Islam di Amerika. Kita ketahui bersama bahwasannya Aminat Wadu itu terlahir dengan nama Maria Tesle di kota Batisda, Maryland, Amerika Serikat pada tanggal 25 September 1900", "1952 yang mana beliau berasal dari Berber Afrika Amerika yang berkulit hitam yang mana ayah beliau adalah seorang metodis menteri dan ibunya juga keturunan dari budak muslim", "masuk Islam pada tahun 1972 beliau pertama kali mengucapkan sahadat dan menerima Islam sepenuhnya pada tahun 1974 Aminawaddud adalah akhirnya merubah namanya yang mencerminkan afilasi agama", "Beliau belajar di Universitas of Panisalfina, yang mana masyarakat barat seperti di Amerika itu terkenal sangat menjuncing tinggi nilai-nilai demokrasi. Sehingga akan lebih mudah menerima pemikiran dan interpretasi bebas dalam hal apapun tidak terkecuali agama.", "Namun sayangnya hal ini tidak selalu benar karena masyarakat muslim di barat umumnya lebih konservatif terutama dalam hal agama. Kelompok muslim ini dianggap masih kurang bisa memererima pembaruan agama sehingga selalu melalui kelompok yang tertinggal dalam tatanan sosial masyarah di Amerika.", "Aminah Wadud mengakui bahwa beliau juga tidak begitu dekat dengan ayahnya yang tidak banyak mempengaruhi pandangannya pada usianya yang ke-20 tahun beliau mendapatkan hidayah ketertarikannya terhadap Islam sehingga khususnya dalam masalah konsep keadilan dalam Islam atau gender", "Yang mengantarkannya untuk mengucapkan dua kalimat syahadat pada hari yang ia namakan dengan Thanksgiving Day pada tahun 1972. Yang mana beliau Amin Nawakdud adalah seorang mu'alab, Namun ketekunan dalam melakukan setadi keislamanya sangat keras. Ia menjadi guru besar setari Islam pada jurusan Filosofat dan Agama di Universitas Virginia,", "Virginia Commonwealth ia menyelesaikan studi di Universitas Michigan dan memperoleh gelar MA pada tahun 1982 Hai dan PHD pada tahun 1988 mengenai latar belakang dan perjalanan karir beliau selain memahawasai bahasa Inggris Aminatawa", "menguasai beberapa bahasa latin seperti Arab, Turki, Sepanyol, Perantis dan Jerman. Beliau menerima gelar BS dari The University of Pennsylvania antara tahun 1970 dan 1975. Dia juga menerimakan gelar MA di studi timur dekat dengan", "tadi di Universitas Michigan dan gelar MA serta PHD. Pernah belajar di Arab Besir, Universitas Amerika di Cairo dilanjutkan dengan setelah di Al-Quran, Tafsir, dan Universitas Cairo dan mengambil kursus di Filsafat Universitas Al-Azhar juga. Yang mana beliau memperjuangkan mengenai kajian Islam, feminisme Islam, teologi filsafat", "dan intervied dialogue karya-karya beliau ada yang berupa buku dan berupa artikel antara lain ada Quran and Woman Reading the Shred, The Text from a Woman's Perspective tahun 1990 kemudian bukunya lagi yang bertudul Insight on Gender Jihad", "Women's Reform in Islam, England on Web and Publication. Dan beberapa artikel beliau antara lain alternatif penasaran terhadap Al-Quran dan strategi kekuasaan wanita muslim dalam buku Tireh Kekuasaan Aktivitas Keilmuan Wanita Muslim editorial Gisela Webb dan Sharjah University Press, tadatan 99. Artikel berikutnya yaitu Muslim Amerika, Etnis Bangsa dan Kemajuan Islam", "dalam buku kemajuan Islam, Keadilan Gender dan Berulasma. Artikel yang ketiga, Status of Women in Islam, yaitu ditulis di New Delhi, Anjata Publication pada tahun 1987. Bagaimana pemikiran Aminatawadu tentang Islam di Amerika? Yaitu beliau menggunakan konsep Taukit,", "wadud bukan berangkat dari argumen kosong semata selanjutnya adanya peran masjid komunitas yang mana Aminat Tawadud juga menyoroti peran Masjid bagi komunitas muslim barat Masjids juga dianggap sebagai contoh yang tepat yang menggambarkan konflik relasi gender dalam beribadah masih tidak hanya merupakan", "tetapi merupakan saksi perjalanan dan perkembangan agama Islam di suatu tempat. Selanjutnya, pemikiran beli yang ketiga tentang Islam di Amerika adanya konstruksi sosial, yang mana mayoritas kelompok Muslim yang menganggap bahwa pemisahan gender dalam ibadah adalah hal yang dibolehkan, adalah kelompak yang menggunakan tandasan fikih kuno.", "yang dilakukan Aminat Wadud berangkat dari budaya marginalisasi peran perempuan dalam Islam, maka dalam penantanya ia menggunakan beberapa pendekatan untuk melihat penafsiran-penafsirannya yang menunjukkan posisi perembuan yang setara dengan laki-laki. Ia menekankan pada penggunaan pendekataan hermeneutika karena menurutnya sumber alquma pun hati dapat diinterpretasi dengan beragam pemahaman.", "sehingga keduanya tidak lagi dipahami seperti tech yang kaku namun dapat mengakomodir konteks kehidupan perempuan saat ini dari beberapa paparan yang kami sampaikan di atas damat" ]
amina_wadud/Amina Wadud_ The Unfinished Project of the Arab Sp_yIewRj4p1JQ&pp=ygURQW1pbmEgV2FkdWQgaXNsYW0%3D_1742935100.opus	[ "I begin as always in the name of Allah whose grace I seek in this and all other matters. I really want to first thank the volunteers who have been very accommodating for me because I do have that sort of dottered retired professor kind of thing about getting lost and forgetting stuff, and they've been really, really gracious", "and also Dr. Motevi for the invitation in the first place, it's really been a fabulous encounter I made at least a half dozen attempts at writing this presentation and always got stalled I finally realized that there was a lot at stake of being able to present this idea in a coherent and methodical manner but then I had not actually reached that coherence I have the parts and I have be intended integrated goal", "need and a plan towards the goal. What you will have are the potential parts toward the goal which would greatly benefit from your input in critical consideration. I also experience a little reluctance because there is a personal stake in unraveling the question of authority in Islam and Islamic thought. It is my concern over the equally compelling yet more objective motivation towards a democratization", "pushed me beyond my personal ambiguity. I will propose a radical shift from hegemonic and charismatic based authority, from the Islamic classical period because it is evident today that it also can lead to some problematic abuses where we are in need of a paradigm shift. Perhaps I have ISIS to thank for the colossal motivation to dismantle hegemanic authority", "abuses with blatant and horrific violence, and human violation which lead many of us to scramble for a way out. While there have been endless debates over their legitimacy I put it to you that the stage was set long before their arrival on the scene.\" Now I'm going to be using Khalid Abu Fadl's book Speaking in the Name of God to sort of lay some foundations about the general discussion on authority. Categorically the Islamic intellectual tradition accepts", "authority in that God communicated to humankind through revelation, a primary source in all claims of authority. How to get the meaning from that source sometimes is obscured by ignorance, by the tendency to abdicate to others as experts, scholars, leaders and authority while sometimes only God knows. To what extent do I as a reader decide a", "dialectical engagement with God. God, in one form or another speaks to human beings and human beings engage God's speech through interpretation and praxis. The conclusion of that interpretation the conclusions of that Interpretation are not final unless a coercive force or circumstance come along to close off other interpretations What is that force? Why does the one who asserts their static notions make a claim to authority", "claim to authority, so much so as to preclude other interpretations and the building of other interpretations as legitimate, necessary, and even binding. What are the limits of those? And who decides on those limits? And why is limits even a question?\" He also says that Sunni Islam lacks a formal institutional and hierarchical structure of authority. There's no authoritative center other than God", "making religious authority dubious. After the shuffling of political leadership following the death of Imam Ali, the role of authority fell to the jurist, who ostensibly could determine what was legitimate within the community and were therefore even able to determine who could be its leaders. They were at the time repositories of a certain amount of knowledge about those two sources, knowledge that was intentionally put to the question of praxis.", "of praxis. Despite the complex consideration of this historical transformation, even Khalid Abu Fadl does not consider the extent to which their interpretive methodologies were steeped in the already existing thoroughly patriarchal and thus hegemonic social order that had an impact on their capacity to speak for us now. In particular, my life's work has been focused", "on the question of gender as a category of thought, which was wholly missing. Yes there were endless assertions about the role and even the nature of men and women but these also have been subjected to new lenses. All my life work has inadvertently also been focused on rhetorical assertions of power and authority because even when the sometimes detailed criteria of who can claim", "that role has come into question if the one who possesses them is a woman. Does that not mean that the criteria itself are dubious? How often was the human being selectively only the male human being, with exceptions, additions or oversights and deletions about the female human being until she herself appears as a deviant human being? Not only are there ethical questions", "is considered authoritative, is suspect. One aspect of this which remains is the legitimacy of their framework despite a rapidly moving universe and this planet peopled by diverse human beings including those claiming allegiance to some rubric called Islam or to Allah or to his prophet. Coercive authority is the ability to direct the conduct of another person through the use of inducement benefits threats", "that for all practical purposes they have no choice but to comply. Persuasive authority involves the ability to direct the belief or conduct of a person because of trust, a distinction then between being in authority and being an authority. Being in authority means one can obtain compliance with their commands or directives. There is no surrender of private judgment, but it's made irrelevant. You may disagree,", "An authority involves a surrender of private judgment or opinion in deference to the perceived knowledge the authority possesses. This means that an authority has to show that knowledge or their expertise. Deference to an authority involves transference of reason to another person's will, even though you might share some common belief. The Islamic system is egalitarian and diverse. A person does not lose their ability", "against the pressure of an authoritative structure. This authoritative structures can be one that the person agrees with, so it is in the event of disagreement when the question of force comes in. I often encounter sheer rhetorical assertions of force through male hegemonies and such persons who claim privilege because they are male even when no compatible knowledge or expertise is at play. This is one reason why I found questions of authority so compelling to trace.", "Fulton proposes that the knowledge authority in this Islamic system is egalitarian and diverse, I would like to contend that it is hegemonic and coercive such an authority becomes an assertion of power. Nevertheless although the hegemony still exists i think we need to dismantle it.\" In the beginning I thought I knew nothing so I set out to study and to master the sciences", "I knew nothing. Where does authority, the sense of authority or the privilege to become and assert an authority as judgment over another person come from in Muslim discourses? I would like to think about this question now but also I'd like to talk about it in terms of the classical period. One of the differences that I see is that in the classical periods the signs of knowledge were so great, the depth", "as integral to those intellectual traditions are really so well informed that they would never presume knowledge about another person or about ultimate meaning without accepting the challenge of potential error. After studying, completing the composition of thorough treaties about whatever was the subject that they were studying,", "This is because once they had arrived at a place where their study ended, and as much as they believed that part of it was over, they still hoped to go further. Then with the knowledge so far acquired confirmed that they then humbly returned to a place of surrender. And there God will take you further if it is a divine will. Today everybody wants this kind of power and asserting authority or claims of knowing but not everybody", "wants the full gist of the responsibility. The responsibility to acquire that knowledge and yet be humble, to such an extent as to take a position of surrender to Allah as the only means to enhance their knowledge and the responsibility to others that comes with such knowledge. Power always serves. Power without service to others is self-serving. There are egoists among us, and I was kind of thinking of Donald Trump but I didn't want", "There are some among us who clearly applaud an ethic of self-service as savvy business prowess. So recently at a conference in Exeter, I won't tell you all the details but this a male in the audience asked why Dr. Amna Wadud led the gender mixed prayer knowing very well that it further diminished her chances of a position of authority in the Muslim community. Although it's worth determining how many of the assertions with this statement", "pure assumptions, even erroneous ones. This paper is about the matter of authority. Since this and similar statements are often made about me then my objectives in location in the matter and thus in the paper it's not just a technical analysis of it I have to wonder how does someone lose authority they never knew they had? How does one read another person's intentions to covet any such authority let alone that patriarchal hegemonic charismatic type", "in the first place? And how is it that the one who makes such an assertion is demonstrating his own claim to enough authority to limit my access to it? What is authority ultimately? I think this question will probably remain at the end of this paper, but I will at least lay some of my thoughts. This is not about my intention", "statements that anyone who was actually asking the question and they really meant to find the answer would, you know, know how to achieve it. However despite the number of responses to these and other questions I'm also clear that what they are seeking is not an answer to the why because those can be found. Actually most such statements attempt to remove the authority that has been heaped upon me since that prayer event. It is thus itself a rhetorical assertion", "I mean, a rhetorical exercise in the type of authority I hope to show has long since lost its validity and stands in the way of progress towards what I'm calling a democratization of authority. This is because of another definition of authority that Khaled Abu Fadl gives which is", "even transformation. No one can talk about women's leaderships in any form, in the context of Muslims today without considering the demonstration of authority as female imam. How do most of time they do it in negation? But I don't mean leading Salat. I mean women should be able to lead you know organizations but i don't means a lot. How the Muslim intellectuals and lay persons understand", "cannot satisfy the curiosity about my full intentions in prayer matters because although there are endless statements about that, they go unheard by those who are trying to maintain the old paradigm of authority especially amongst those laypersons who wish to assert their claim to authority over mine even over my capacity to ever have authority because I'm closed out from some confessional communities. If the authority we speak of is truly not accessible", "just for being created human, then it is flawed. Authority must be fluid in principle. It must be attainable by a set of methods within a coherent system that becomes integral to the project of an Islamic worldview. That system cannot simply be all male persons regardless of their competence and integrity. I have come across linguistic and rhetorical devices used when making these assertions.", "assertion all my career. I especially focus on hetero-gender relations in these assertions, but there is a larger rubric of concern. How do people relate to other people? Must there be some hierarchy between them? How do these assertons indict the user and close off certain transformative potentials? They are not a full circle. They're circumstantial. When the circumstances change they can equally be used against the ones claiming it because", "arbitrary. I would take all assertions of power as conditional and thus fragile. Their fragility is sometimes evidence when their assertions become violent. Thus this is an ethical project that relates to our very notion of the divine will, if not to Allah herself. How is someone's notion of a divine asserted over another person", "Allah or God as the ultimate reality only possible when everyone is completely free to establish their own relationship. If we must defer to someone else's notion in the Islamic sense of it, then that would be shirk. Instead people like ISIS assert that one is guilty of shirk when they do not adhere to the ISIS notion of the divine. Too often women whether", "minority context are accused of being usurpers if we propose to contribute to the growth of knowledge in Islam and thereby to Islam itself. And what would be contribute if not authentically garnished from our experiences as Muslims? Not only is this, in part, an attempt to validate women's experiences but also it's part of a global strategy used by the Musawah movement to achieve Muslim women's full equal rights.", "In the formulation of traditional fiqh, women are subject to discourse and formulation. Perhaps when the Qur'an responded to men asking about things like menstruation by saying they ask you about women's menstruation, and by the way, women is a word I had to insert but clearly we know that's the only instance right? They asked you about menstruation then men took the license from then on", "source, hence authority would be women themselves who after all are the only ones with a first hand experience. Instead men took it upon themselves for several generations to speak of matters always from this al-Tadr perspective for which they ascribe to themselves authority to speak on. Starting with an understanding that Islamic ethics are more than a set of do's and don'ts or simply rules and postulates,", "of human communities. It affects the entire universe. Key to the order of the universe is, of course, Tauhid because the whole universe is unified, orderly and harmonious. Using this Quranic construction, the human being is an agent of Tauheed. The moral responsibility of all humans is to support and maintain harmony and reciprocity between self and other. Throughout my years of study into Islamic ethics", "I've been struck by the way that dominant discourses constructed human relations in a vertical line. A law, the highest metaphysical essence was on the top. Man or the male person was in the middle. This position wasn't a direct relationship with a law but it was also above women for the female person who is at the bottom. Although considerations of the Tawhidic paradigm begin with specific concerns over unequal gender", "heterosexual contexts as encoded in Islamic jurisprudence and practice in patriarchal cultures worldwide, including amongst Muslims, its implications are more widespread. It was like unraveling the Islamic equivalent of the Martin Buber ethics of reciprocity, the I-Thou formula. Whenever one human makes another human being into a utility lacking full and independent moral agency that person becomes an it to the I of the first person.", "person, that is exploitation corruption and inequality. Not only was this an important personal discovery when it was applied to reading Islamic ethics but also shed light on the basic paradigmatic flaw that undergirds so much of jurisprudence patriarchal ethics in philosophy within the Islamic intellectual legacy. It was then necessary to consider how a Tawhidic paradigm of equality", "and social and political contracts. For while I did find traces of this discourse about Tauhid and social justice, it was limited to relationships between males ruler-to-ruled teacher-to student nowhere what its application to gender relations ever considered then clearly it was necessary to come to the understanding that gender is a category of thought we have to ask time and", "privilege one human being over another and in particular, one gender over the other. While human systems often prefer one group over another such a construct cannot be assumed divine sanction because it only removes us from the full responsibility and consequences of our actions. It reduces the divine to projection of our whims. Every person male or female is Khalifa before Allah responsible not only in patriarchal systems but beyond", "beyond patriarchy into egalitarian systems. Any construct of divine human relation that reduces another person to a subcategory is doomed to fail. This has to be applied to gender. No matter how long patriarchy has been the bulwark of human communities, it is unsustainable, untenable and in my opinion un-Islamic. Islamic personal status laws are up against their own era of unequal relations. It is futile", "diverse family constructs by continually resorting back to a system that is no longer tenable today. Women are full agents in the family, in society, in Islam and as human beings. We have the capacity and responsibility to fulfill roles according to our diverse circumstances and ecological arrangements public private and spiritual. From the time of the Prophet Muhammad, ideas about authority", "and been challenged. In part, this is due to the divine nature of Risalah or prophethood which is how he became an authority. From his divinely assigned authority we get a glimpse of all the characteristics and types of authority that would follow. However, all subsequent authorities lack that divine assignment but as Khaled Abu Fadl has elaborated many still claim to be speaking in the name of God. So what are the other features", "the other features of authority in one person which concern us now. Indeed, from the moment of the Prophet's death challenges to the meaning of authority and who qualifies to have it and how they qualify has been a part of the development of Islamic intellectual spiritual and political history no less so today with the question of the authority of women and who has the authority to speak for women are put into focus. The questions of authority", "Gender as a defining characteristic of authority, as an aspect of thought and hence analysis, and brings to mind all questions of legitimacy. For as I've said in those instances when authority is built upon certain tangible characteristics even these have been brought into question when they adhere to a woman. Whoever has the power to confirm and implement practices in the community is an authority over that community. Why do we think of this as singular", "the community as a whole, in consultation even contestation. So if we discuss authority as knowledge of truth or expertise as extensively considered by Haile Nebufadlou, we must also discuss knowledge because of the prophet's unique revelatory experience his knowledge was bestowed by God in the form of direct revelation and his knowledge", "first disputes over the question of authority centered on whether or not the leader of the community could also bring new knowledge. Okay, so this is not I'm not going to do stuff about the Sunni-Shia split and the question authority in power and knowledge but just keep that mind. Finally there was a split between leadership and knowledge and at various times religious authorities would be the ones with knowledge", "power, as the creation of new knowledge flourished within several centuries after the questions of authoritative leadership were separated from it. The question of new epistemologically did not arise. Imagine what that must have been like? All fields of human knowledge flourishes, blossoms were challenged and rethought. New paradigms came in and went out in all fields from strictly speaking Islamic religious", "philosophy, mathematics and medicine. The knowledge authorities had only to demonstrate the legitimacy of their arguments and postulates which were open to contestation further developed or abandoned in the face of evidence more legitimate or relevant. This was and is a healthy part of the development of the Islamic intellectual legacy harrowing in our golden age while the rest of the world yet slept.\"", "authority as the ability to assert an opinion or perspective and by its assertion to thus become a marker for the community conversation, even transformation. An authority then is a knowledge expert who must substantiate their claims of authority by being able to produce certain results. Otherwise people will lose their trust altogether. At the very least, the practice of consulting with more than one authority lends itself towards", "such authority is warranted. It is true that sometimes authority in one person rests upon the charisma of that person, so much so that they are afforded the trust of people even in areas where they have no evidence to support this particular legitimacy. It's a bit like asking the podiatrist when you have a problem with your eyes or ask any ophthalmologist when you've got a problem", "intellectual development was ever lax. In fact, the methods of checking and cross-checking or establishing rules and standards of knowledge have been overall quite rigorous. They were almost always linked to knowledge of the primary sources and then later to secondary sources. Mastery of these sources in sometimes quantitative amounts but also qualitative amounts with assigning adjoinments and permits has been the norm.", "is how to sustain this legitimacy based on knowledge of sources but not to have the authority itself always adhere to some place over there or sometime back then such that we had the agency to create new knowledge and to establish authority in that knowledge from our here and our now. This is especially important in the question of gender, and more particularly with a matter of women's authority. Thus fundamental questions relate", "what we live and that it must be continuously lived by the people who then become equal contributors to what is Islam, and each circumstance creates its own authorities. How can Islam be alive if the life of the ones who live it here and now are not reflected in what is taken as authoritative? Finally I have to say something about ways of knowing. How do we know what we know? In Islam ours is a knowledge based on confirmation", "the transcendent. In the absence of direct revelation of the prophetic type, and in the absence or direct contact with the one who received that revelation or the prophet Muhammad, we still maintain the authority of the primary sources. However since these are no longer in production what is really at stake in claims of authority is a hermeneutics of interpretation of those sources which is never static. In one sense then the question of authority", "For a certainness there are those ones with the power to assert their interpretation, that is, to establish policies to implement their interpretation or to claim authority be this the state or otherwise. There's also the possibility that their authority or their interpretations will be contested by other arguments with unshakable evidence establishing their legitimacy and by disproving the logic of the evidence based on the one who hold the power.\" This is the place", "This is the place of revolution. This is also the place Islamic feminism amongst other modern reformist knowledge bases. Islam is a community which emphasizes received knowledge from a transcended source and so this is true for both women, men and women but I'm going to be taking something from a book that was written about women's ways of knowing so if I am using women as an example I hope you can see through it and beyond it.", "The first stage is that of received knowledge, when knowledge is always out there adhering to an authority or expert if not altogether unattainable because transcended. In the context of Islam a received knowledge tradition somewhere out there in the realm of ultimate real knowledge absolute truth exists. It was passed through the prophet who made it accessible to us all through revelation and praxis but we can never really know for ourselves", "received knower, knowledge is always secondhand through the voices of others, the authorities. Furthermore there was no way to tell the truth except from authorities who are all powerful, all knowing and require obedience in order to survive. If one wishes to demonstrate their capacity they do so by parroting these authorities who by the way can give but one answer to each problem. Thus parenting means the receive nor", "This is affirmed by living in gender stereotypical roles. Everything is black and white, either or and literal. The value and the imperative of this received knowledge is almost cosmic, or in fact explicitly cosmic as in eternal salvation. The affirmation that one is doing right or just playing right means that one can be rewarded with paradise which is a compelling impetus to accept the knowledge received without question or debate much less personal affirmation.", "Subjective knowledge is when at some point in the lives of many women, no matter how well or how long they fulfill the roles established in patriarchal cultures there is a rupture between what is received and the inner experience. To affirm that inner experience sometimes becomes a matter of life and death say in the case of violence but also in the cases of alienation and unhappiness and those stereotypical roles. Are we meant to be so unhappy?", "in Islam so complex as to not recognize our struggles within it, within our families or within our communities. Soon that inner voice is so loud it's hard to silence it and even harder not to respond to it. Here is an important initiative for women's agency because it is so intimate to the self that Carol Criss calls diving deep and surfacing. That is surfacing when the self becomes evident enough I know", "individual take on certain matters. This leads to a kind of trust in oneself and that inward affirmation is necessary to confirm anything that one will adhere to. In the context of Muslim women, it's not uncommon that the patriarchal experience of Islam is so incongruent with some woman's inner being that all of Islam", "where there might be inward rejection, there is often still outward silence. For one thing although the community no longer speaks to the reality of this inward experience, this affirmation of self does not really require community approval. In addition, the force at the community and its authority may seem just too strong to contend with. There's great ambivalence about the relationship that the community to", "as to be confirmed no matter the feeling or experience of alienation from the community at large. However, there is a stubborn commitment to one's internal views which can also lead to unwillingness to expose oneself to other views because subjective knowledge is often characterized by few tools to express or persuade others. Procedural knowledge respects the complexity of things where some truths are more true than others. Some things are open", "are better than others. Besides, the intuition can deceive, the gut can be wrong. Better then to develop a more systematic way to affirm certain truths and to affirm knowledge. At this stage, knowledge is the result of a procedure that involves conscious, systematic analysis. Ideas must be measured up to some objective standard and methodology. Experts are only as good as their argument on behalf", "claim to know. In fact, a general kind of suspicion challenges the assertions of all authority. This includes what Toni Morrison calls the calcification of the academy. Within academia Muslim women too often endeavor to develop their competence in this methodology and to distance themselves from too personal an analysis. It's interesting to note how often the analysis itself is overly preoccupied with", "Muslim women subjects to render these comprehensible by the methods, procedures and standards of the objective command academy. And I always think of the book The Politics of Piety. Once the experience is supposedly rendered into coherent philosophical procedural knowledge then we really understand it. Constructive knowledge is the final stage but these stages are by no means comprehensive in that a person might manage them with leaps", "leaps and bounds, or they might get stuck in one place or another all at the same time. But at the final stage, all knowledge is constructed, and the knower is an intimate part of the known. Constructive knowledge integrates voice with a subjective knower with procedure and process. Our consciousness is part of", "reason and intuition, and the expertise of others in balance. Here is where women accept the responsibility for evaluating and re-evaluating the assumptions about knowledge. As such there is an appreciation for the challenge of disagreement. Truth is mutable it is a combination of personal history timing and circumstance. Moral", "and others. The constructive knowledge leads to tolerance of ambiguities and contradictions. Here a woman remains self-aware and becomes aware of the workings of the mind in such a way as to stretch the boundaries of consciousness. Constructive knowledge is more than just procedure, that self is also an instrument of understanding. It is more", "or capacity to attend to others despite differences. And inside the gender jihad, I analyzed my first role as ritual leadership when I was invited to give the Friday khutbah in a Jummah prayer at the Claremont Main Road Mosque in Cape Town South Africa 1994. When women's stories are brought into the center they do not recast", "marginality in which women live is only reconfirmed. The position of women in the margins must be redeemed from where they are experienced. No mere performance in the center will reconstruct status quo. Therefore, the task is not so much for women to claim that center space as legitimate for female agency. Instead, the whole community must enter into the margins with women", "to create alternative placements as central and to remove the meaning of center from the male hegemony, which has presumed it belongs to one fixed place time or set of characteristics. The text of the sermon uses the particular reality of being female and becoming a mother as public discourse to reconstruct and reconfigure normative articulations of what it means to be Muslim", "Before that, Islamic public discourse most often focused on the male experience and rendered that experience not only appropriate for men in the public space but also for women. When the voice of a woman offers something about herself particularly as a woman this too must be incorporated into what it means to be human in Islam. I'm not more human because I am like a man.", "and my humanity is female. It is the morally responsible role of knowledge construction that I will bring back to the question of authority. Here, I remind you of the Khalid Abu Faldl reference, the ability to assert an opinion or perspective and by its assertion to thus become a marker for the community conversation and even transformation. In some ways this is very simple. Women's lived realities are one measure", "And by this I mean anyone in the community is an affirmation of that. In other words, it's very complex. If the goal of Islam is not achieved in the lives of women living as Muslims then Islam itself fails. Women do not have to do anything in order to achieve these results. They don't have to be wives or mothers, obedient or even good. They just have to BE. Their subjectivity becomes the instrument used to determine the methods for fulfilling the goals of Islam.", "Now, in Islamic Jewish prudence whenever an Islamic opinion or fatwa is needed about a matter say of medical advancement stem cell research or technologically assisted reproduction the religious scholars must confer with the experts in medicine to fully understand what the advancement entails. This is the mufti as received knower. With regard to the matter of women's lives this same reference to experts is required and the experts", "those who work in communities negotiating women's lives, social workers, psychologists, therapists, counselors, activists. This is the subjective part. These are then addressed by a dual component of analysis, the procedural part and this analysis includes all of the interpretive works done by women in our times. Aren't we lucky that we can raise this question now? What results from this is an Islam that is not only", "Abu Qayyum al-Jawziya was determined as the maqasid of sharia, which is justice. How can Islam be just if women do not experience that justice? I continued to search for the means to make this location not only coherent but also to invite to it the affirmation of the authority of Muslim women's lived realities. This led me to the idea of the democratization of religious authority. Through the work of Madhabi Sundar,", "That history involves the scholarly position of an inherent conflict between women's rights and religion, which is really a problem with the traditional legal construction of this category. Premised on centuries-old Enlightenment compromise that justified reason in the public sphere by allowing deference to religious despotism in the private, human rights laws continue", "jurisdiction in which inequality is not only accepted but expected. Law reviews religion as natural, irrational, incontestable and imposed in contrast to the public sphere, the only viable space for freedom and reason. Simply put, religion is the other of international law. Today fundamentalists are taking advantage of this tradition. Despite laws formal refusal to acknowledge claims of internal dissent women", "challenge religious and cultural authorities, and to imagine religious communities on more egalitarian and democratic terms. Current law often allies the claim of modernized for freedom within a culture and religion and paradoxically sides with the fundamentalist or traditional leader instead. The upshot is that law rather than facilitating human rights in modernity is buttressing the power of traditionalists against change. She calls this phenomenon new sovereignty", "the increasing use of law to protect and preserve cultural and religious stasis in hierarchy against the challenges to cultural and religion authority emerging on the ground. Under current laws, an individual may choose either to remain in a discriminatory culture or religion on the leader's terms, this is the Islamist position, or to exit. Dissenters have no right to stay within their communities and contest or reform them nor", "on one's own terms, that is to plurality of choice within culture. In fact religion is much more internally contested and subjected to reasoned argument in chains than earlier theorists acknowledge. It is human beings who interpret religion and make it meaningful to their time. The fundamentally human aspect of religion and culture then may be subject to tests of rationality and legitimacy.", "The divine will is a matter of human definition and interpretation, and requires human beings to show why they interpret their religion in one way rather than another. And why they think their interpretation entails a particular form of behavior. Faith involves judgment choice and decision, and hence reason and personal responsibility. Enlightenment definitions of religion as natural and as personal belief obscure the role of politics", "in religious context. Religion has become problematically detached from the specific historical context, social frameworks, political struggles and institutional constructs that have produced it. Claims for women's human rights and Muslim community signify much more than a world in transition. To be sure, women from Muslim communities and countries embrace the universal concepts of justice equality and democracy but unlike traditional Western lawyers they seek to apply these", "to apply these concepts within explicitly religious and cultural contexts, not in the public sphere alone. Feminists and Muslim communities argued that the same democratic principles that guide the public spheres should apply within the family culture and religion, that is, spheres traditionally defined by Western law as private and virtually unregulated. This is a radical shift from traditional human rights law which posits freedom only on secular terms. While current law conceives of individuals", "Individuals as having the freedom to pick and choose between communities it allocates the right to define those communities to religious and cultural leaders or authorities Women in Muslim communities are asserting their end of that individual members of a community ought to be able to participate in this process The goal of which is to find interpretations of culture and religion that are not oppressive to any group of people Thus Islamic feminism as I now am able to call. It is a project that engages in the", "engages in the authority of interpreting both the notion of human rights and the notions of Islam. While I have emphasized my own area study into the meanings of Islam and the lives of women, I would like to bring these back to the proposal that I made earlier. In our dependency on leaders to be authorities over us and determine our ways of knowing we have abandoned the capacity to act as full agents of Allah on the earth.", "of responsibility, we must all take part in the determination of what will constitute the living reality of Islam. Furthermore any public policy that is put over the lives of citizens in the context of the existing rule of the nation state is made by human beings and thus should be within the control of human beings who also have the power to change that system. No rules should come into place because it is referred to some extraction such as", "This must be in the name of we, the people. We, the People, must take the agency of authority in our own lives by seeking the truth and seeking to construct, sustain, and support systems that allow our grappling with the truth to hold sway over how our lives are governed. In the Black Lives Matter movement I heard a young man exclaim that people like Oprah Winfrey were waiting around for that old-time leader to come and take us to the promised land. That model leadership he said is over with", "he said is over with. We are the leaders. Thank you. So we're open to a bit of conversation. Please, there's a microphone that'll come to you.", "Thank you for listening to me in person and thank you very much. I'm sorry that I rushed it but I knew I had more than 40 minutes. Yes, I have a question. You did not unpack your understanding of gender justice because it is implied or so I want you to confirm if I understood you correctly that for you gender justice means gender equality", "everyone has a role and place on this earth is not what you're talking about, right? So if my understanding is correct then how do you answer to all the other recent criticism that it's posed against an understanding of gender justice as just equality and sameness.", "because men and women are different after all. Some of these differences are constructed, some of them we're born with, they're biological but by no means should be translated into social inequality but those differences exist so how do you answer to these concerns? Thank you. Yes I deal with what they call in the international", "human rights things as the substantive model of equality. It's not about sameness, I could never go for sameness. I mean look at me. It is based on a composition of the Tawhidic paradigm where instead of the vertical line if you keep the metaphysical highest focal point as being Allah then male and female can only ever be, not on that vertical line they'd be on horizontal line", "reciprocity, which means the capacity for exchange does not diminish the role of one over the other. I got in trouble for this because people who don't believe can't really understand a law is not just limited to one location, which I will deal with in the future but for me I use the Tawhidic paradigm as the basis for all aspects of equality that I'm talking about in terms of live communities and then if you use it as", "back and revisit human rights so that diversity or what rv law calls radical pluralism is a mandate you're comfortable good uh there's a gentleman over here oh he gave the mic to someone then we'll go to him yes please okay thank you thank you so much professor wadud your talk was deeply inspiring", "was the need to do some critical rethinking about the nature of the modern state and about the Nature of Modern Sovereignty Vis-a-vis religion generally, vis a vis Islam. To what extent is that issue at stake in your discussion? The need to rethink the nature Of the modern State and the possibility of its relationship to Islam I think of a book like Wael Halak's recent book, The Impossible State", "state on Islam politics and the predicament of modernity. How do issues of gender come into that discussion, in your view? Well it's not just gender I think...I just think that making a distinction between politics and policy is sometimes lacking when we do this. And also the idea again of reference to whatever is the Islamic part of it to this cadre of", "simply keep reiterating certain things because the Islamic intellectual legacy is available to everyone and that means that everyone, no matter what your faith orientation or perspective may be, everyone has a chance to be able to interrogate it. And I believe that in the public space that no policy should go into implementation without the input of the people. And that means an idiot, that's right, has equal rights as someone who has studied because that's my notion of democracy so that you cannot put something into implementation by the coercive force", "is this the way we do it in Islam, which goes on all the time. So my personal location would probably be one of a separation of church and state or a separation religion and state but not to the extent to which I would say that religion does not impact how state actors will make decisions as history has always shown us. The thing is that you know religious perspective in itself cannot hold more sway than another", "have to be able to make their arguments coherent to people and people have to accept or not accept. And then that is the challenge because right now we've got this sort of like stop post where, you know, if it's a religious authority comes and says something then, you", "from the removal of religion as a determinant for what the policies will be. Thank you very much, Professor Wadud. We have started this discussion a little bit two days ago and I work on contemporary Islamic thought and your work is inspiring to me. And your interest in the paradigm shift or the epistemological shift you are considering", "through authority, perspective and subjectivism worries the classical religious authorities for at least in my perspective one main reason. The sacredness of the book. So that's the ultimate thing if we are revising Islamic law especially what concerns women issues where they are kind of mathematically detailed when it comes to mi'ras or inheritance", "Okay, because my main work for a couple decades has been on Quranic exegesis I finally had to come to the place where I would grapple with especially the Daraba verse and construct it very analytically. The criteria for how you get to say no to the text. And this is something that's very easy for me as a believer by choice.", "by choice. I'll have to ask my father when I get to the pearly gates, he was a Methodist minister so I was raised in faith but as a Muslim by choice you know I grappled with what really was a love affair that I had with the Quran but with things like slavery I'm like I'm not buying it I really am NOT caring where it came from so then I had to be able to try to look at the whole notions of revelation", "community in terms of what becomes encoded. And as I said, we tended to prefer encoding those patriarchal passages which truly exist and ignoring some of the egalitarian passages that are also there. And I just thought if you're going to make a choice, I'm going to qualify the egalitary voices as my priority. And then I'm gonna use them, which is what I show in the methodology of how to say no", "part of the Quran, I'm going to use the community and especially as I said this idea about women's live realities to help me determine whether or not the text is achieving what it says it's supposed to be. You know which is guidance. And so yes we're gonna have to grapple with a lot of things. I'm getting ready to do some research on same-sex intersex transgender communities", "And to do that, I'm going to come up against some territory that might make me uncomfortable as an inclusive person myself. But I'm willing to do this because I don't believe that anything is ever closed off. I think we are closed off and once we close it off then we tell other people they can't do it. You know? I mean, I am a African-American woman. Do you know how many people will try to tell me to sit down just because I'm black and I'm female? I'm like, that's not gonna happen brother. I've been out here fighting for too long. So it's like, I have a voice", "and my voice can be wrong. And because I can own up to that possibility, I'm not afraid of being proven wrong. I'm like okay well now I know better but I have encountered people who like you know this religious framework of having a stake in being right is really damning for people because then they can't think sometimes and as a consequence they cannot really meet the needs of the community or the environment. I mean look what we're doing to the planet Earth. This is only one we got", "So there is something that has to radically change in our ability to be able to engage with the notion of divine because I believe that it's, think about what they say about the human brain. Our capacity to think is very small. I think if we finally open that up, I think we will understand God in so many new dimensions and I can't wait but I have a short life left so you know I may not get to see everything that happens but I'm going to do everything I can to make sure that it does come into implementation.", "Thanks a lot for a very inspiring presentation. I would like to ask if you see the changing role of Islamist women in the new Islamic jihadist movements, like ISIS, for example, compared to those established groups like Al-Qaeda? Does that have to do with an element of agency or does it have to deal with natural development of events? Thank you.", "Well, I am not a social scientist and I don't do case studies. It's really hard for people sometimes to understand because application of certain theory obviously goes to it but I have been blessed about quarter century ago with very meaningful transformation in my ivory tower kind of isolation from what is happening on the ground. And the ideas of being able to put into place policies that enhance the value of life of women", "And so it doesn't matter to me what your perspective is on that secular, non-Muslim anti Islam or the Islamist. But I do think that we are still trying to box Islamist women as if they're in one category and that hasn't been my experience.", "as are interested to have that conversation. I don't close anybody off from the conversation, and I don t suppose people are at an absolute position of stasis unless they demand it. So I don�t think that Islamist women are monoliths, and i don't think that they are the same today individually or collectively as they were yesterday last week. That's just my non-social science reflection. Would you like to go farther with that? Okay thank", "Okay, thank you. Thank you for coming. Professor Woodood, you said unchecked authority leads to exploitation and corruption. Since you're a descendant of slavery, it's Sunday now so if you look at TV today on a Sunday morning the whites are praying in their own church, the blacks are praying", "just because of running away from the challenge of authority. So in modern day America or Canada, if you also see the ethnic Muslim communities they're basically categorized so how will you basically compare Christian churches", "Christian churches to Muslim mosques based on ethnic backgrounds in today's America or Canada? I have observed a development of what I call Muslim civic engagement and principle in that development was the construction of places of worship. And I'm personally not as put off,", "on the basis of a certain kind of ethnic centrality because I have traveled in the world and I do know that people are very comfortable within their own cultural space with the language and certain sets of presumptions. I just don't like any other spaces that would be called God's house to be closed off to any other person, and I've not found that a mosque would ever intentionally do that but just like the ways, the coercive ways", "and people with disabilities to the mosque, they can also make those spaces to be inaccessible to people by a number of factors. Giving the qutbah in a language that you don't understand. And I've been enough countries with qutbahs in languages I don't even understand that I even roll with that. But I think because of the under siege mentality we have as Muslims which is very legitimate in the face of Islamophobia", "going into these sacred spaces in order to find a kind of cultural enclave. And I don't see that as a bad thing, provided it is not the sum total of it. Right now my concern with Muslim public ritual spaces is that they are not genuinely inclusive of women and persons with disabilities, sometimes children, and persons of LGBTQI orientation. So if it was a Pakistani mosque", "Pakistanis go, then a Pakistani trans person ought to be able to go in there equally. And that's not happening. So I'm not really concerned about how people...I mean, I'm African American and sometimes when I go abroad if I see another African-American Muslim woman someplace, I just assume that we're going to be the best buddies in the world because on the international scene there is not enough international participation by African-american Muslim women.", "I mean, you know, I think you're beautiful. I'm just like, hey yeah, black folks are gonna ask a question. I mean I'm prejudiced in that way. I am not afraid to be prejudiced because it is not the marker of my totality of being and it's not the way that I promote my politics. All of my children are interfaith and inter-race relationships so all of my chidren have five of them, you now? So I'm pretty good at saying that I'm really cool with being black and I'm realy cool with around black people", "black people and sometimes for the purpose of worship I'm especially cool with being around black people because they know my history but then we have occasions where we can do outreach from that community to others and again, I don't believe that spaces should be closed off to any person for any reason. So I have a kind of mixed bag with that because somehow we still have that unity is uniformity thing you know all Muslims do the same thing please gag me you know I just not there", "I'm trying to rally up to somebody who understands how to make a good chapati. Don't be asking me because I have no clue! So, I mean, I just don't think that we need to trouble about the fact that people are trying to... Here's my brother Mark Gonzalez. He is Latino American and everything. There not a lot of Latino American Muslims who are spoken word artists and everything? I am sure if he found another one on the street, the two of them would be walking off. His wife, who is from Tunisia, would be saying, where are you Mark?!", "have relationships with people of our own kind, but as long as that's not the only thing we do and exclude people on that basis under some rubric of this is Islam or religion or this is a moth I'm okay with it. That's just a personal opinion. And there he is. As-salamu alaykum. Wa-alaykum salam. I'm thinking about the last 50 years of power movements", "the conversation who are still alive about the end of the era of charismatic leadership and looking back at how that failed in resulted in so much of the fragmentation and splintering. And internally a lot of the conversations then are, so what are the new models? And that goes into two directions some are like literally what are they new models and what are old models we've forgotten or were never educated on. And that conversation is now expanded not only into new models", "What are the different ways of knowing that we've forgotten, especially looking at like and understandings of land. And time is linear in different indigenous ways of being. So I'm curious for you whether Muslim or non-Muslim whatever identity you've sat with on the planet what are the models of leadership? And what are they models of epistemologies that excite you in this specific moment when so much is in flux?", "Because I'm still fighting from the margins in terms of race and class, gender and alliance with the LGBTQI movement. I can honestly say that I have not yet witnessed a model in such way that I can say that's where my excitement lies. But there is a woman named Wahida something like Lemrisa or something like that who just came out with a book called Octavia's Brood", "Octavia Butler, who was probably the most well-written African American science fiction writer. And by the way if you really want some science fiction to transform your way of thinking, you should read some of hers. She used Octavia's imagination to go to activists in the community and on the ground and actually ask them to write using a scientific... I mean a science fiction framework", "What would it look like when what you say you're working for comes to fruition? And they were like, I can't do science fiction and everything. And then once that got started by letting the imagination free flow, she has this wonderful book and she's going around promoting it now. And I went to a conference on are the gods afraid of black sexuality in Columbia University, for which, of course, they only had Christians in representation except for a few of us.", "And she was on the panel with me and I thought, we were like last panel of course, always last panel. And I was like oh this is the reason why I came to this conference you know? And that notion that sometimes you need to write a script or what it is that you want to see, I haven't taken it up but I believe in it. The reason why have taking it up is because I still feel also that siege mentality for reasons of race and class", "you know, my perspective on gender diversity. And because of it I'm always speaking out to those voices the naysayers and getting some clarity about it because I don't believe in deconstruction as the final goal of anything but I also like to show that you know the holes and the fabric of those rubrics that they create so I'm still a little bit stymied in terms of my thinking about it", "of random you know sort of minor examples but I'm not really sure what it looks like and that's why i want to put it back to we the people please join me in thanking professor" ]
amina_wadud/Amina Wadud _ Unity 1_LUsHt0hyvys&pp=ygURQW1pbmEgV2FkdWQgaXNsYW3SBwkJvQCDtaTen9Q%3D_1742924918.opus	[ "First, I would like to talk to you briefly about the history. I would", "with North America and South America. But still, they call them world wars. And what they learned from these wars... Well, first of all that war is not healthy for children and other living things.", "do horrible things to other human beings if they consider them their enemy. In fact, they learned that human beings can do inhumane things to", "And the United Nations has the ability to consider your country a legitimate nation.", "legitimate nation-states or not. But also, because of the horror of those two wars they thought about what it means to treat another human being with dignity and respect", "Even if that human being was your enemy. This is the birth of the discourse that we now know as universal human rights. In fact, they came out with a document in 1948 called the Declaration of Universal Human Rights.", "But this is not where human rights began. We did not start to think about what it means to treat human beings with honor and dignity just because there was a war in Europe.", "and all religions or faith traditions down to the most remote village thoughts, and still think about what it means to treat human beings with dignity. So where our current discussion may take off", "may take off from the discussions at the United Nations in the middle of the 20th century, we can go back to our own traditions and gather evidence of the importance of human rights long before the Declaration was even written.", "Every human tradition considers what it means to treat humans with honor and dignity starting with one basic principle.", "we determine what makes us human. In Islam, we have an interesting story about a conversation as it were between God, Allah the creator of the universe and all that is within it", "by the way, are themselves created from light. And in this conversation Allah says, In the Ja'ilul Zil of the Khalifa Indeed I will create on the earth a khalifah an agent", "A moral agent. A representative of God's will on the earth. This is the meaning of human being in Islam. A khalifa, an agent of the will of God on the Earth.", "Because in this story, the angels actually have a question that they give to Allah regarding this plan to create a khalifa.", "create chaos and confusion. And what they ask has, in fact, come true. We do create chaos, havoc, and confusion but Allah's plan went forth anyway and human beings were created from an atom of dirt", "When the human was created, Allah ordered all the unseen beings that would be angels and jinn created from a smokeless fire to bow down to this human being.", "that is Satan or Shaytan refused to bow he said I'm better than him He is created from dirt and I am created from smokeless fire", "So, Chaykhon refused to bow to the human creature. This sets up the principal ingredients for every act and every thought where one human being treats another human being in less than human form.", "than humane ways. It's called zulm in Arabic, or oppression. The root cause of zulm or oppression is when one person, one human being considers him or herself better than another human being", "for whatever reason, class or caste or gender or level of education or color that you wear or shoes that you have on. If for any reason you consider another human being less than you,", "You are in fact repeating the same formula that Satan practiced when he disobeyed God. Think about it.", "or because I disagree with them, or because i do things differently from them. I'm better. Not that I am different and the world is full of diversity but I am better. To consider yourself better than another human being for any reason", "of Zulu, oppression or inhumane treatment to another human being. Now this fundamental what we call the hydrological principle in Islam has inspired me in my work on Islam and women. In 1995 I went", "I was not surprised that they did not agree.", "And this is why two very strong voices, either Islam or human rights. Specifically the movement of Islam.", "human rights and we were in the middle. We were in a middle, and...and...we refused to give up our freedom. Between itself and human rights...between itself and", "More than 20 years ago, and in that 20 years when you discuss Islam and any other topic You are a Khalifa. You were created as a human being to be an agent of the will of Allah on earth", "of Malir. In other words, when you discuss Islam, you must take agency with regard to the definition of Islam. Muslims are always telling you in Islam", "Islam you must do this. We don't have that in Islam.\" And what we did was to question whose Islam was it? If a man can rape a little girl and pay blood money,", "That's called Islam. Do you believe in that? Do you belive in that? No And guess what? When you claim agency with regard to Islam, You can reject that In other words, Islam belongs to those who believe it", "Not just to old men with beards. It belongs to any of you who want to play it. So between 1995 and 2013," ]
amina_wadud/Amina Wadud _ Unity 2_ODpJ5JM6Y9w&pp=ygURQW1pbmEgV2FkdWQgaXNsYW0%3D_1742933943.opus	[ "When we take agency, then we have the ability to determine how it will be a part of our lives here and now.", "and women's human rights. But we were very clear that we are not at war with each other, we are at war any thing and anyone who would oppress us. And so we can and we do work together to eradicate all", "that will limit the possibility of women fulfilling their full human agency. Thank you very much" ]
amina_wadud/Amina Wadud _ Unity - 1_Fd0caGqKfgk&pp=ygURQW1pbmEgV2FkdWQgaXNsYW0%3D_1742906265.opus	[ "First, I would like to talk to you briefly about the history. I would also like to discuss the application of that notion. Some of what I have experienced and contributed to nothing to do with Apartha and really because it was not there in North America had little to do", "with North America and South America. But still they call them world wars. And what they learned from these wars, well first of all that war is not healthy for children and other living things but they also learned that human beings can do", "do horrible things to other human beings if they consider them their enemy. In fact, they learned that human beings can do inhumane things to", "I want it that as a planet we need to come together in at least one organization and that organization is now known as the United Nations. And the United Nation has the ability", "legitimate nation-state or not. But also, because of the horror of those two wars they thought about what it means to treat another human being with dignity and respect even", "Even if that human being was your enemy. This is the birth of the discourse that we now know as universal human rights. In fact, they came out with a document in 1948 called the Declaration of Universal Human Rights.", "But this is not where human rights began. We did not start to think about what it means to treat human beings with honor and dignity just because there was a war in Europe.", "and all religions or faith traditions down to the most remote village thoughts, and still think about what it means to treat human beings with dignity.", "take off from the discussions at the United Nations in the middle of the 20th century, we can go back to our own traditions and gather evidence of the importance of human rights long before the Declaration was even written.", "Every human tradition considers what it means to treat humans with honor and dignity starting with one basic principle.", "we determine what makes us human. In Islam, we have an interesting story about a conversation as it were between God, Allah the creator of the universe and all that is within it", "by the way, are themselves created from light. And in this conversation Allah says, In the Ja'irun of the Khalifa Indeed I will create on the earth a Khalifa an agent", "A moral agent. A representative of God's will on the earth. This is the meaning of human being in Islam. A khalifa, an agent of the will of God on the Earth.", "Because in this story, the angels actually have a question that they give to Allah regarding this plan to create a khalifa.", "create chaos and confusion. And what they ask has, in fact, come true. We do create chaos, havoc, and confusion but Allah's plan went forth anyway and human beings were created from an atom of dirt", "When the human was created, Allah ordered all the unseen beings that would be angels and jinn created from smokeless fire to bow down to this human being.", "that is Satan or Shaytan, refused to bow. He said, I'm better than him. He is created from dirt and I am created from smokeless fire.", "So, Chaykhon refused to bow to the human creature. This sets up the principal ingredients for every act and every thought where one human being treats another human being in less than human form.", "than humane ways. It's called zulm in Arabic, or oppression. The root cause of zulm or oppression is when one person, one human being considers him or herself better than another human being", "for whatever reason, class or caste or gender or level of education or color that you wear or shoes that you have on. If for any reason you consider another human being less than you,", "You are in fact repeating the same formula that Satan practiced when he disobeyed God. Think about it.", "or because I disagree with them, or because i do things differently from them. I'm better. Not that I am different and the world is full of diversity but I am better. To consider yourself better than another human being for any reason", "of Zulu, oppression or inhumane treatment to another human being. Now this fundamental what we call cosmological principle in Islam has inspired me in my work on Islam and women. In 1995 I went to the Beijing", "the Beijing conference for women in China. There were more Muslim women present than at any of the conferences before and any of these since. And we noticed that there were so many Muslim women, so we decided to...", "And this is why two very strong voices, either Islam or human rights, specifically the movement Islam.", "human rights and we were in the middle. We were in a middle, and...and...we refused to give up our freedom. Between itself and human rights...between itself and", "20 years ago and in fact when you discuss his song and any other topic, you are a Khalifa. You were created as a human being to be an agent of the will of Allah on earth.", "In other words, when you discuss Islam, you must take agency with regard to the definition of Islam.", "Islam, you must do this. We don't have that in Islam.\" And what we did was to question whose Islam was it? If a man can rape a little girl and pay blood money", "That's called Islam. Do you believe in that? Do you belive in that? No. And guess what, when you claim agency with regard to Islam You can reject that In other words, Islam belongs to those who believe it", "Not just to old men with beards. It belongs to any of you who want to play it. So between 1995 and 2013," ]
amina_wadud/Amina Wadud _ Unity - 2_eIQAfopNuSo&pp=ygURQW1pbmEgV2FkdWQgaXNsYW0%3D_1742933011.opus	[ "When we take agency, then we have the ability to determine how it will be a part of our lives here and now.", "and women's human rights. But we were very clear that we are not at war with each other, we are at war any thing and anyone who would oppress us. And so we can and we do work together to eradicate all", "that will limit the possibility of women fulfilling their full human agency. Thank you very much." ]
amina_wadud/A night with Dr Amina Wadud_JmBoOSLQ8Fc&pp=ygURQW1pbmEgV2FkdWQgaXNsYW0%3D_1742933960.opus	[ "In the name of Allah, Most Gracious, Most Merciful", "After the interview there will be some time for Q&A.", "But first, there's something else. We're going to listen to a cover by Raza Fogata. She is the journalist and founder of Securitite Cofunder and women's network Next Gen Women. Raza is a huge fan of Dr. Badoo, by whom she has been inspired to always ask very important questions. The question of why?", "So, thank you Hasna, the one and only Hasna Mohamed for your honorable invitation. Standing here before you with my glitz and glam, my hair done when it was done and makeup done makes me humble and proud.", "Proud because I realized how special it is to open this unique event with so many beautiful, strong women and men. And to share this with our esteemed guests, welcome to Amsterdam Dr Wadid. The place where I was born in 1975, raised in a city with over 180 other nationalities.", "and not know anything about each other. The city where they assassinated Thay Khatun, but happens to be one of the most violent cities in the Netherlands. The truth sounds like a contradiction I know, but bear with me when I'm taking this demand. So let me take you back to 2005. I was working for the Dutch Muslim Network at that time.", "In retrospect, I don't know what was so Islamic about it as the former director tried to harass the women working there multiple times including myself and let's not forget all the money we spent over the years. But this aside... It was there when I first came in contact with your book Quran and Women. Doctor who?", "for my own identity at that time. Although I grew up in a Moroccan culture with fairly traditional patriarchal behavior, which I always opposed, my country of birth was slowly starting to become a restless and fear-driven society, and also politically. Islam became a target, and the position of Muslims in this country all of a sudden was one of uncertainty.", "And people were starting to question your loyalty due to what they were fed by media and populist politicians. I was the oldest of four, daughter of Neji and Rameh, the intellectual and illiterate. It wasn't easy growing up as a loyal, mouthy, stubborn Moroccan that wanted to become a journalist.", "I started reading the books my mom had made around and went through Lois Gaddafi and Fatima Mubissi like that. I was young, I wanted to change the world for myself and for women. Here comes trouble. My dad had trouble of letting me go and explore for an internship, for example in Rotterdam just one hour away or when I had a chance", "overseas at the Middle East Broadcasting Center in London, at the age of 20. Whereas this same man years later has no trouble with my baby sister going to Canada for six months and again a 6-month working experience in Jakarta so you can see the progress intolerance my stubbornness had made with my father I learned to push through", "not to take no for an answer and question everything why i kept asking why in both people around me crazy asking questions was not always appreciated or accepted but it took but never took anything for granted i was the rebel with a cause", "that grew conscious of the burden of women by my late great grandmother. She always said to me, yet spied the same things where we occasionally meet and exchange ideas. Next-gen women happen because of that mindset. Together with women like Naima Ezra Yes!", "zone and get caught up in each other's algorithm, and become oblivious to other opinions. But why? Why should we want to do that? What good has ever come from playing it safe? We live in a time where Trump and Builder's rhetoric are accepted as common sense but we as a community have big steps to make when it comes to the acceptation of homosexuality", "So, so I'm not sitting. It's all for bidding a solution But as sisters we also have a battle to win when it comes to our own brothers in Islam Because these men are having a hard time doing this and getting used to the next generation of intelligent and critical Zenith Sometimes she surprises them with fake lashes", "and they don't see the intellectual attack coming at all. A brother has to catch his breath, reload his bravado, and try to discredit your presence because he can take all that sadness with him. It happened to the Bessons, and it happened to me recently by someone from our own community who I respected. He had a hard time watching his sister", "shining her moment of glory and decided to act a certain way because in our male-dominated Moroccan culture, we are still not equals. Quote, or is it because of the problematic Quranic verse 434 which is misused by some women to create superiority over women? It's an ABC article shared by Dr. Mordaunt on this very issue and I didn't continue his word that week. I think you know what I mean.", "But I'm blessed and surprised by sisters that come to your support and rescue at times like these. Women who stand beside you and fight like gladiators, as it was seen from Game of Thrones.", "is easy, right? Because undermining each other's struggle and work is easy. Right? I'm done with that. In fact, I never joined the bakery to compete with other women on this level. It's insanity. We need leadership. We have the same size balls as Dr. Rubens. Women who dare to lead and connect", "with other women and together you will rise to a higher level of power and positivity. Because if we refuse to claim this as feminists, the vices politicians will. The fascist who claims to be saviors of the oppressed self-proclaimed freedom of speech warriors", "undermine our own capability to call out bullshit when we see it. Quote, fascists calling themselves feminists is nothing but the sheer normalization of fascism and discrediting of what feminism actually means. End of quote. First post I'll come. So on this note,", "Muslim woman. A proud feminist. I'm not your exotic, I'm strong and independent not to be confused by your average. I will stand for what I have known my whole life. Strong and stubborn female DNA given to me by my ancestors.", "On behalf of Muslim women around the world, thank you for leading the way. Thank you.", "I have a very long career. I'm going to celebrate my 65th year on my birthday in a few months and I like to say that because I think probably I am the only person with 60s in the room but also because what I want to share with you is going to take me back through 45 of those years", "of the entire trajectory of Islam. In my journey, I have traveled to more than 60 countries. I've lived in six and I have been in the same venue or had dinner with royalty and prime ministers and presidents but when I got the invitation from Paradiso it said among the people who had been here", "who had been here was Snoop Dogg. So I'm like, alright! I made it now! So I feel like you know...I'm not going to entertain you at the same level as Snoop dog but I promise you in the little bit of time that I do have to try and go through those 45 years The reason why I'm not gonna go from a prepared paper is because", "And actually I repeat most of what I'm going to say to you in different venues, so it's not as if I don't know it. It's just sometimes I have like an hour and a half worth of stuff and I try to squeeze it into 20 minutes. So it's better for me to sort of talk off the cuff. So the topic is about Reform Islam, and particularly talking about the women's movement. But...", "methodology because there's still some people and hopefully none of them are in the room who believe that you cannot have such a thing as Islam and feminism in the same paragraph let alone as a hyphenation. So I need to try to get you to understand how I came to the place of being able to do this, because I can literally give you almost to the day when it was that I was able to accept for myself", "And I think that journey is a pretty good marker of what has been happening in the field. As some of you may know, I'm Muslim by choice and I came from family with a certain religious orientation in Christianity because my father was a Methodist minister so I was raised with the God of love when I became Muslim I took their last name Wadud which means love one of God's attributes as", "as an honor for the things that I learned from my father. And when I was just shy of my 11th birthday, my father took me to the March on Washington with the Reverend Dr. Martin Luther King. So there's never been a separation between my idea of what is God and issues of social justice. It's sort of like they say in my DNA.", "how it is that I tried to synthesize three strong thrusts in my own life because I think they all impact on Islamic reform and that is spirituality, intellectualism and activism. Now not all of these come together at every place seamlessly. I'm still waiting for the opportunity to be able to have them all three meet but since they all meet with me", "to Islamic gender reform and also they become guideposts, links that I look for in order to be able to engage continually with other issues with regard to social justice and Islam. I will use those markers in order try to outline something about the history of the women's movement. The most interesting thing I want to say about the women' s movement is that we are experiencing a critical mass at no time", "In no time in all of Muslim history have we seen the numbers and intensity of women taking agency with regard to their definition of what is Islam, and what it means to be Muslim. Now I would like to say except for the time of Prophet Muhammad, but actually women were the beneficiaries of reforms that were instigated because", "his own personality, which was the reason why he was chosen by God for the receipt of the Revelation. So the Revelation itself brought reforms that had not been seen anywhere in the world and yet within a very short time after the death of the prophet, the old patriarchal wars began to take hold and the main architects of what we understand", "returned to those norms and therefore drew a sort of veil of patriarchy over all Islam. Now there are various examples of this, and I hope that you want something more specific than what you asked me during the Q&A following the interview but for me I just want you to understand that there is nothing within the religion that restricts a woman's participation in learning", "but women were not the primary spokesperson with regard to how Islamic worldview was put into practice. And eventually over time, we become acculturated to those practices and they become re-encoded by the cultures in which we live and then people will simply say well you can't do that in Islam. So the first question that the Women's Movement had to address is what is Islam?", "Who defines it? And who has the authority to define it?", "which I think would be best characterized as pro-faith, pro-feminist. And there were two very strong voices there. One was what I now call secular Muslim feminists and the other was sort of the political Islamists. And they agreed on only one thing and that is that you cannot have both Islam and human rights or Islam and feminism.", "who were present, especially the organization that I was representing they were not comfortable with this divide. So if we had any inclination towards Islam which we did for the next 10 years or so we would be characterized as being Islamist and if you were critical of things that happen in accountants of Muslim government, Muslim control over things like Muslim personal status law", "cultures and in our very families, if we criticize that then we would be considered to be secular feminists. So to define ourselves between these two places the first thing that we had to do was step back and take agency with defining all terms that were out on the playing field. And to take agency in regard to the definition of Islam is the main ingredient to the big Islamic reform movement not only of today but of the past", "but of the past. Islam has been through continual reforms and all of those reforms have been impacted by the circumstances that are on the ground. So for example, the rise of female imams in China is not because they love women more than anybody else. It's not because China is more feminist than anybody though. It simply because there was a more liability for men as Muslims", "a loss in the community and if the women had not taken up the mantle then the legacy might have been lost. So sometimes when you are trying to understand dynamics on the ground, you also need to consider what impacted or how that dynamic came about and how then that would impact on definitions of Islam and how Islam was practiced and how it was believed in.", "was really inspired by my own Sufi orientation, and I call it indeed surrender. Now most people say you know Islam means submission, and i think that there's some reality to it but I say indeed surrender because I both want to acknowledge the idea that we are all coming from the same source", "in English they call God. But unless we consciously, that is with all of our intentionality, with our minds, with the freedom of will, you know, the free will that we understand especially Abrahamic traditions, unless we put those to play with regards to the act of surrender then we will resist because of course we also have ego attached to that very same will", "will. So engaged surrender is the conscious decision to live our lives in accordance to the divine will and what is the divine Will? Well, the Divine Will brought rain today yesterday the Divine will brought sun or the Divine", "limitation in the use of their legs, or what we call a disability and therefore cannot make it up the stairs in buildings that do not accommodate them. All of these are aspects of the divine will. So in fact the divine is life. It's life unfolding. And there is an order to that. There is beauty to that as a matter of fact. And in failing to see that beauty some people will emphasize ugly and hurtful things but again I don't want to dwell on the negative", "is to live in a trajectory that shows the greatest ethical orientation to the recognition that you are fully human and so is everyone else. In fact, I say this to my grandson he's about to be three and even when he was little guy I said to him yes, you are the center of the universe and so as everyone else So we need the affirmation", "that Allah has created each and every one of us human beings to be khalifa on the earth. And a Khalifa is a moral agent, it is the one who will fulfill the task of living a life of justice and equality by also giving justice, equality and dignity to others. So for me when people say well what is the role of women in Islam? I say the role is to be a Khalifah,", "beauty, to maintain the trajectory of honor and dignity for herself and others. Coincidentally that is the same as the role for men in Islam. Now this does not mean that as long laborious intellectual tradition of Islamic thought I don't want you to get sidetracked. I love it.", "the classical texts, but while that tradition is very strong and very diverse, that tradition also was subject to something about its own locality. And patriarchy was the order of the day not just for Muslims, not just men. So as a consequence, the encoding of patriarchy over the three to four hundred years", "Islamic intellectual contribution was infused in almost every aspect. Sometimes they would take a single verse and they would use that verse to justify everything that they had done, but if you peel back the layers from that same tradition, you will see that the scholars of the past grappled with how best to realize Islam given their own circumstances which included slavery", "And it wasn't an intention to be able to continually replicate it, it simply was the way that it is. Fast forward all the way up to 1995. Obviously there's a lot that happens in between but I'm just going to have skip over it for now. But fast forward to 1995 and when we came to the Beijing conference...and I always use that as the marker because", "define ourselves according to the game players that were present, for a minute had to step back and figure out well what are we doing? Are we doing anything that is valuable? And because even those players did not take agency with regard to the definition of what Islam or the definitions of human rights then they simply went with the status quo.", "People will still say today, last week with regard to this dead big bad thing I was told that I was definitely not a Muslim and that I hated all the prophets and you know all of this simply because people like to reduce a complex system into the elements they can use. And they might use it for good but also more commonly they would use them for harm.", "the Muslim Women's Movement began to take such a deep push for allocating its own notion of self and its own understanding of Islam towards the future was because the whole global arena was changing. The United Nations had already been in action for about half a century, and it was trying to assert for the world what it means universally to have human rights.", "In 1995 we were debating in particular CEDAW, the Convention for the Elimination of All Forms of Discrimination Against Women. And it was there that the secular feminists said let's just go with the UN inventions and they did not really take into consideration that the entire structure of the United Nations had been formed by all of the colonizing powers.", "who had gone into other places in the world to subjugate entire populations and cultures under the rubric of their understanding were also the main architects of all the documents that came from the UN. That has changed in the next 25 years, especially considering that in 1995 the presence of Muslim women at this meeting was greater and more visible than any other time", "any other time before and any other times since. So women who are also identified as Muslims participate in these conversations, but we do not participate it in the same way. We do have different orientations. So I like to say Muslim Women's Movement. The difference between what I want to say about the movements in terms of our diversity is that it is women themselves who are taking agency with regard to it.", "Even if we don't agree, the contributions that have been made by women are spread far and wide. And impact on other women and on men as well as on policy. To be able to bring activism to the table for me as an academic it's very easy for me to split the hairs from the head of certain dialectical constructions because I like that stuff.", "and it's very easy to be sort of an armchair critic of certain things. But when I came to Malaysia, which was in 1989, among the first people that I met literally within the first month that I was there was a group of women who were grappling with this juncture that they felt between their own identity as Muslims, in fact their love of their identity as Muslim", "Islam within their cultures. And they decided that they wanted to do something about it. Now, how to go from that decision to actually now a long-standing organization that's more than 25 years old was I think a part of the formula for what happens in terms of reformist movements on the ground everywhere and that is we had to recognize that we are up against an international community", "with its power of privilege in terms of the assertions for certain things under the rubric of international, but because they are intentionally trying to bring in all the nations as signatures of these documents what they would do instead is they would defer to the definitions of culture and a religion that come from those same governments. So the main spokespersons with regard", "at the level of international debates are still picking up on men. We've been working with the UN over the last decade and finally we're getting some inroads in terms of being able to listen, but when a country... And most Muslim countries have actually been signatories on something like CEDAW, the Convention for the Elimination of All Forms of Discrimination Against Women. They signed it and then they held reservations. Well, we can't do that justice this long.", "of certain gender norms, especially in a sort of heteronormative rubric of understanding gender. Then certain assertions were made about what could and could not happen that did not see who it was that was asserting it made a difference. So in my area for example, in Quranic exegesis, my first book, Quran and Woman, rereading the sacred text, was published while I was still in Malaysia in 1992. Many people have the 1999", "1999 version, but literally it's the same text. If we look back at the text and we ask certain questions and among the questions that we asked is not only why? But what difference does it make if it is a man or woman? Then you will see there are nuances in the text that were simply overlooked by people mostly men who were in a privileged position They were so privileged as a matter of fact that we literally have no record", "record of women's responses to the sacred texts until the 20th century. Now we know because we have Sira, we have history, we've had biographies of say people who gave narrations on the Prophet sallallaahu alayhi wa sallam and we know that women were involved, we know they prayed, we knew that they memorized the text but why we have no record is because", "because it was something that was the purview of men and even when women might have studied in their own circles, they didn't leave us a record. And it makes a difference. It makes a different not only who is reading the text but it makes the difference from where they are reading the texts. And to bring that difference to bear on how not only Islam is defined", "which the status of women is being discussed, is something that only came about at the turn of this millennium. So we are challenging definitions of Islam and methodologically we do it by first as we did with Christians in Islam raising our own level of awareness so education has been the number one tool of liberation for everybody on", "about Muslim women. So education has been one of the main forces that has brought about this new movement, that is in a continuum that I don't see stopping in front to a hungry left. And education is not just the reading and writing but it's also the dialectics of interpretation. It is an engagement with the corpus of material within our intellectual traditions", "traditions to understand, first of all how the conclusions were drawn by those religious scholars and believers who came before us who were mostly men. To understand their methodology but not just rely on those methods. To also include say the method of critically reading for gender or the method", "If we say that Islam is about justice, but Muslim women do not experience justice in their lives then it means either Islam has failed or somebody's definition of Islam is insufficient for that reality.", "So we have challenged the way in which things are played out on the field by taking agency with regard to defining Islam for ourselves, but also to assert the logic behind how we come to those definitions and then to engage in conversations with others. And the others are not just the men in our communities,", "over what human rights means. So the idea of human rights has to include a woman's right to make choices with regard to her own body, even if that choice is because she decides she wants to cover her entire face and walk down the street of Copenhagen or Paris or Amsterdam. Because you can't make that assertion it is also a part of the women's movement. So, the women' s movement is not simply servicing some people in the community but our community is so", "diverse. The realities of what happens with Muslims in Europe, so for the things that I say about Europe sometimes come up to my experiences informally and through observation but many other factors are similar here in Amsterdam and I'm just a observer and I just listen when I hear about it. But even in the context of Amsterdam or the context", "when they can and cannot do something because of religion. And yet, when they decide on what is restricted by the religions, they are usually taking those opinions from the same privileged patriarchal men in the communities. And the reason is simple. As Islam and Islamic thought developed we established a notion of authority.", "and it's your capacity to be able to grapple with these sources, but also it was based on the belief that somebody has to be in charge of everything. And that there can only be one person in charge. This kind of leadership led for those who were acknowledged could be the Sheikhs, could be, that those who are acknowledged would then give permission for others to have it", "of how this authority will be spread. What we are claiming today, and basically I'm inspired by the Black Lives Matter movement in the United States is We are the leaders that we've been waiting for And I call this the democratization of authority in Islam And that means that at any level where the state it could be a Muslim majority country or it could", "that in any state where an assertion is being made in the name of Islam, that every person who identifies with it should have some say on whether or not a certain thing will be adjudicated as law. And it's different how that plays out in the Netherlands than for example how that would play out in Jordan but the impact is the same. So for example if in Jordan and this is a reality", "If a Jordanian man may marry a non-Muslim woman and have children, he is allowed to pass his Jordanian citizenship on to his children. But if a Jordanians woman marries a non Jordanian men she is not allowed to passed her citizenship over to her children because the nation state overwhelmingly is based on some type of constitution", "and the constitutions overwhelmingly guarantee equality of citizenship, then you see we have another disjuncture. And so to decide that one citizen can pass their citizenship but another citizen cannot pass their citizenship means that we are not actually integrating fully what we mean by equality.", "a single leadership. Somebody has to be in charge and by the way we have a publication, a book called Men In Charge? Because somebody has to in charge of basic understanding of order and society that comes from Islamic sources, the idea of justice was actually how those with power and privilege treat benevolently", "But remember, when the Quran came slavery was legal. It was possible to be able to actually punish people with physical harm. In fact that's included in the Quran itself and women were undeniably considered to be subjects of men. All of that is possible not just because of Islam but if you look at Greek and Roman societies they would have the status of a citizen or non-citizen", "the male, female, slave holder. All of these divides were there and when Islam was on a philosophy and law began to have this conversation it simply did a similar system so the male Muslim free person is the highest ranking person in society and everybody falls under him So justice was the extent to which he would give benevolence to his wife or to his slaves or to non-Muslim labor", "Those definitions of citizenship are no longer tenable in the realities that we live in today. We need a notion of fair and equal citizenship for everyone. So what does that mean in the context of Muslim minorities who began migrating to Europe in the 1930s? Most of them because people needed the labor they brought. It means that the definition of what it means to be European is no longer adequate to sustain its own citizens.", "You need a definition of citizen that will encompass all of your citizens equally. You cannot have such status as citizenship and expect to have what you call democracy. So there's a challenge, that I mostly learned from the women's movement, that also becomes relevant in terms of how Muslims live as minorities even in the context of the Netherlands.", "He then realized that just to assert these definitions and give the evidentiary base for why they are reasonable definitions was not going to be enough. And that's why activism and advocacy is so important. Now, the advocacy is one of the most exciting things for me because again remember I came as an academic into a setting where you know I met with activists and the next thing you know", "without thinking about how you implement it on the ground. But when I came into this setting, some of the activists were unsure about how to negotiate with the overriding notions and experiences of patriarchy in their cultures and in their families. Just like Raja, my friends all tell stories about something they realized when they were kids. Why could the boys go out and play football", "in the street, but the girls had to stay inside and do housecleaning. I mean they noticed things right away. And eventually you know they become adults and they learn more and they still have that why question that Roger was talking about. So not only in terms of answering the why one of the things that happened is that women began to take agency with changing the how. How do we understand the role of women in this realm?", "themselves with knowledge. So Sisters in Islam was like a study group, we went back to the sources and read them, and we read them with a lens for how they might be understood in our time based on the principles not the letter but the spirit. And that was my research in my first book Quran and Woman so if anybody hasn't read it yet its only 106 pages it won't take you too long. You're welcome.", "So the main part was how do we make, how did we bring to public attention these possible alternatives. So the strategies of becoming a publicly recognized group was using the facilities that were there so for most part Malaysia has free press so we would send letters to the editor, sign off with our pen name Sisters in Islam and for a couple years nobody knew who we were", "ourselves with other women in other countries who were working on ideas about interpretation and obviously ideas about implementation. And in 2009, the Musawah movement was launched. And when the Musawa movement was launch I literally came wearing a t-shirt that said feminist. It was then that I came out as a feminist.", "is also an Islamic feminist. So not every feminist is an Islamic Feminist. An Islamic feminist invokes the methodologies that I have talked about, that is we use the sources themselves but we do not maintain the patriarchal interpretations of those forces. We give reasoning not only for the interpretations that we have", "for the safety and well-being of all the members of our community, especially women and children that is in the family. So by taking the agency we then said we also need to challenge policies. And once you begin to try to challenge policy from around any one particular nation state which by the way Musawah is a movement it's not an organization although you can visit their website at www.musawah.org", "that we have brought together more than 30 countries where women and men have been working on the ground to reform Muslim personal status law along the lines of equality and reciprocity. Now, the equality and the reciprocity is sort of where I think I would like to stop but I'm looking at my time and I promised myself", "about this kind of thing in the context of the Netherlands. And the reason why I wanted to do that is because I had met with some people before I came and, in fact, we talked about some of these things and I just thought it would be a good thing for me to share because the places in the north where Muslims are a minority are riddled with a certain level of tacit bigotry", "governments to continually re-instill these very narrow definitions of Islam, which really isn't benefiting anybody not even the patriarchal men who claim that they're benefiting from it. Because not only are we the leaders that you're looking for, we are now at a very precious precipice with regard to the salvation of the planet Earth. I'm going to ignore the guy in the White House with regards to climate change because", "change because Karine doesn't know, but the reality is that the world is changing at such a rapid pace that unless and until we all come to take responsibility for how we treat each other in the planet, none of us are going to survive. I believe that literally. So I think it's time for us to come to terms with how do we negotiate diversity within our own citizens?", "to finish you. And that means, first of all, we do have to listen to other people. We do have respect their stories and we do allow for people to struggle with the manifestations of their own realities in whatever context they are in which is what I learned from Musawa. Musawa does not go into a country and say this is what you should do. Instead Musawa goes in and makes consultation about what is happening on the ground", "and we equip them again with this sort of Islamic interpretive methodology, and then they go back again to their circumstance and we allow things to play back and forth between the interpretation and there is reality. So in the context of the live reality of Muslim minorities right now I think I read a statistic yesterday 80% of the refugees in the world are Muslims as a consequence that means that the population of Muslims", "we have a sort of DNA legacy and that no one DNA legacy is superior to another. And how we coexist in this place, you do have to get to know your neighbor. You need to have active ingredients in whatever you do that includes opportunities to reach out to people besides those who are like yourself. And of course we are comfortable with people who are", "internationally, if another black person comes in the room I simply seem to gravitate towards that person. Of course uncomfortable! You know and then when they come up and they're like snobbish or they're really dull then it's just a dull black person and I'm not as interested. But there is a natural inclination toward people who are like themselves. That is not the problem. The problem is that when you take the other,", "and then you expect them to perform in accordance with that projection. And either they do or they don't. And the idea that we live in a complex world where eventually we'll come to understand that we are all human above anything else, above our gender, above sexual orientation, above the nature of our partnerships, and our families, above nationality, even above our DNA when we come to the place where we truly understand", "that we are all human, then the problems that persist with regard to what do you do with a Muslim problem will not be a problem. Because the Muslim will simply be another citizen in our context and we won't want for our father what we want for ourselves. We won't the well-being of others. But first you have to get to know them. And to get them to know means sometimes you may also enter into this comfort zone with regards to the privilege that you have always had.", "Once you give up the privilege, you will be empowered by the beauty that is diversity. And the people that you are engaging with no matter where they come from will also be empowered this recognition that fundamentally we all come from God and to God we will return. Thank you.", "How do we make space for ourselves to figure out our own identity and actually be in peace with our religion when it's on the one hand said to be a bad thing by Islamophobes, and on the other hand you have the terrorists. So how do we find peace within our religion? Yeah I think that's an interesting question", "when I look at the idea of engage, surrender. I have experienced over 45 years that it's an ongoing thing. So in other words, I don't see any aspect of my identity as static. It's true that I woke up black this morning and yesterday I was still black but recently I did my DNA and I'm more Irish than anything else so just goes to show right?", "identity that we feel that we must hold on to under our understanding of Islam is only necessary to hold onto because we feel under siege. And the siege is not only Islamophobes, but it's also people who in the name of Islam do things that are so horrific we cannot identify with them.", "Does it make your job trying to reform at least a thought of Islam easier?", "So I'm always looking at things to see a mosaic of possibilities. And because I really believe that in each person there is an intersection of many identities, and even if I gravitate towards the black person in the room, if that black person is boring, there's a part of me that doesn't identify, right?", "or whether I have to go to different people in order to have a lively interaction on different things. So, I think if we take identity not just in terms of the intersectionality that we talk about in terms making this space with the different voices at the table but also in terms your own sort of spiritual intersection and that the way which we achieve what I call the Tauheed of self is to come to a recognition and acceptance of all parts of ourselves including the shadow self", "So in some ways it makes it easier, but in other ways I am really very abstract and it's not so easy to communicate it say in terms of policy. And that's where sometimes I have to kind of rein a little bit. You spoke about reforms earlier on and I'm just going to read a bit from my text here. Basically all religions, I think men are... well women are subordinate to men", "and in the Netherlands we have a political party, SVP Christians. And they just recently opened up their list for women so women can finally take office in name of their party but there's a catch at the last political parliamentary elections there were no women on their lists So even though they say you may in the end it doesn't really happen", "said that in the future women will finally well at this moment they have to travel the world or when they want to just go outside any some on somebody else supervision and if you treat stuff that will be then we'll finally be free to go as a piece in Morocco family law has been reformed a bit but women still inherit less than men", "And even though there's all this progress going on, I still have this question of is this really progress or are they just giving me a cookie so I shut up and let it be?", "and those systems start to recognize that it is to the betterment of everyone, then they also resist these systems. So the top-down people and bottom-up people are resisting together, and that's when there is I think a possibility of change. But I think sometimes we have the expectation that change will come immediately. And I remember when I used to say I'm not going to see certain things in my lifetime", "was launched, it was just such a revolution because even though we've now been out there for eight years and there's a lot of pushback I began to have another window into how change could happen. So I think that you know sometimes change is so subtle and so incremental that it takes a while but at the same time I think Rajat talked about her great grandmother and the legacy she has and for example you with your daughter", "because you were conscious and the way that you raised her will make certain things just not even a question for her. She's never going to question whether or not women can be professional, right? It's just gonna be taken for granted, all women can educated so we really have to sort of appreciate that change can be subtle and ongoing and then what we have to do is we have", "have the impatience, in fact there's a book called The Feminist Ethic of Risk. And she said you know there are some problems that we're facing that we will not see a resolution to in our lifetimes and the old patriarchal model of ethics was one where you get to go in blow people up until they do exactly what you want and then when they start doing what you like with a good boy mind but that method is not viable so", "or not we see it every day or not. So be what you want to see in the world and then yes there will be backlash but the thing is that you set the example, and by making an example then at least people have a model to draw from and then there will proliferation of other examples. And what is it you want", "My generation, my grandchildren are all also hybrids and they represent many religions and many races. I decided that when I went to Jerusalem last month that I would go to the sacred places of Judaism, Christianity, and Islam, the three religions that my extended family, my children, also represent, and then I would make a prayer that before my children got to be the age that I am,", "peace is not easy. Peace is really very difficult because there is no peace without honor and dignity so you know, there's no peace with justice So what we need I think is a comprehensive change in the way which we value ourselves and from that value the way we value other people", "And how come it's so difficult if it's at the core of all these religions? I think because power and privilege is very attractive. I think the opportunity to be able to have preferential treatment, it's very easy. I thing the ego loves to have someone treat them with this kind of special recognition but the thing is that for every time that someone gives you your dignity", "dignity the burden of responsibility for you to reciprocate by giving dignity to other people is even greater because that's what it means to live on the planet with other people and people like to be given something but there can be very stingy about how much they want to give to others one of the topics i really wanted to talk to you about since we only have 10 more minutes um is homosexuality within islam or queer", "or queer community within Islam. And I specifically want to talk to you about this topic because I find it's been, even though there are certain groups in the Netherlands that have been advocating for equality, I still believe it's a topic that has been ignored. I don't...I have queer people in my life but I don' t have queer", "had to think about how I as a sister or a daughter would handle it. And I'm really wondering because I actually don't know what Islam teaches us about queer sexuality, or homosexuality. Because I am currently working on research on that very topic, that is what do the classical sources say about sexual diversity which for me, I continually link it to human dignity", "One of the things that I have noticed is that the discussions would allow for what we would call gender non-conforming persons and yet at the same time there were still certain basic heterosexual presumptions. And like everywhere, you know, encoding of those heterosexual presumpions also became encoded in how we read certain texts or", "or how we apply those texts to laws and how we implement them in culture. So while there are discussions within the Sable Quran about the story of Ubud, what I find is that everything that is attached to that story doesn't exist in the story as much as it does the homophobia of the ones who are reading it. What I tell people is no matter how you interpret those verses,", "out what the text actually says, as little as it says and with as many questions surrounding the stories. And the homophobia that got attached to it over the course of 14 centuries and then in our own century is a tremendous unpacking job. And so we need to unpack sort of what are the formulas", "to what I think Muslims as minorities experience in the context of the Netherlands, and that is that people don't get to know people whose sexual locations are different from their own. They simply want to continue to assert in terms of what they're comfortable with, that if you're like me then that's okay. And that's a similar kind of formula. I think all forms of oppression are manifestations", "Before Allah, we were all created and you know, we are all the same because once we attach ourselves to certain specific aspects of personalities and become comfortable with them then we think that we have the right to be able to assert our preferences over everyone else. And so I think the same formula happens with regard to sexual diversity which at least now that I'm actively engaged in research is such an amazing", "such an amazing plethora of things. You know, it's not just gay men, lesbian women and transgender. There is such an amazng array. And in fact because part of my work as a theologian is to work on how we think about God I've been working on what I call the queering of God. Because if God transcends gender then actually God is transgender. And one of the best ways to be able to understand that", "male and to understand that God doesn't have a single gender location could best be explained by people who have non-gender conforming locations. So I'm really trying to work in sort of a view that allows us to see that if you're truly trying to understand this transcended reality, then we actually need to galvanize understandings from everyone's location. And once we begin", "to the place that I would like for us to be in, and it's that we are all people. We're all subject to some forms of discrimination, and we all participate in some forms or discrimination, what will it be like when you actually achieve the capacity to embrace ourselves as fully us by embracing others as fully themselves? So for me, the inspiration of looking at sexual diversity", "of the static conversations about sexuality, sexual intercourse and about sexual identity that has only recently become a part of popular discourse among Muslims including Muslim intellectuals.", "this dialogue. I have so many more questions prepared for you, but we really don't have any more time. So I want to thank you so much for coming here and joining us. And I'm going to do a Q&A because I think there are quite some questions.", "Sometimes I just did the moment how we cut my purse off.", "Thank you so much. My name is Varsana.", "because this is something I have been asked for the last 20 years. I'm a Muslim, I'm not covering my head, I am dressed as you see and this is always something all these Westerners why are you not covering your head? You're not a Muslim. And then I'm speaking about actually there are new Muslims if I might call them people who decide to be Muslim after being Christian or whatever and the first thing they say", "But then the discussion goes further. You are Muslim, you were born Muslim, but you didn't choose being a Muslim, and took it from your parents. And the whole dehumanization starts from that point. So my question to you because I think I'm sitting down here in this room with a lot of Dutch from different ethnic backgrounds around Morocco, Turkey, everywhere", "Because I have already talked about ABC in my conversation, it will be very easy for me to catch up on this.", "and they are actually not Muslims. There's no such thing that you're a Muslim because your parents were Muslims. You either chose to follow suit or you chose to make modifications, and you chose then to identify. So every Muslim is a Muslim by choice if they are adults. The reality is that we don't usually give our children as young children, we don' t give them permission to choose which is also why when I talk about my extended family, I talk", "It's not a question of degradation, it's just the question of how do we negotiate when you're having discussions with so much complexity. So I make that identification but I don't make it as a judgement against other people.", "What I wanted to know is, as a Muslim who considers the Quran to be of all times, do you speak of reform? Is it that certain things haven't been interpreted in the right way until now or do you consider certain things to need change?", "I'm more of a stander when I'm talking. The thing about the Quran is that throughout the 14 plus centuries since the revelation came to the prophet Muhammad, upon him be peace, Muslims have grappled with what it means and even within the Quran it says that none will know the meaning except Allah", "So somewhere between the literal words of the Qur'an and the policies, cultures, practices that are put into implementation, and sometimes asserted by others as you must do this because it's in the Qur-an. Somewhere between the words of Qur'n and non-policies, interpretations, and practices is what? The human being. And because the Qur'm directed to the human being", "It's a guidance for those who have a certain level of consciousness, for humans to have a level of conscious. It means that we are always grappling not just with what the Quran means but how we implement what we understand it needs to be in our lives. We have always done this throughout Islamic history and we're still doing it today. The main difference I want to assert is not a question if this was right or wrong because I don't believe that", "I believe that, but rather I said very specifically that gender was not interrogated as a category of thought. That is what we think about the Quran, what we thing about the Sunnah, what you think about theft or Islamic jurisprudence has mostly been filtered without considering does it make a difference if you're man or woman or male or female or someone in between?", "The very beginning of the first revelation, the companions would ask the Prophet what does this mean and then they would follow certain actions. And that got encoded into a complex system over 300 years. And we didn't stop. We kept on doing it. So interpretations of the Qur'an have been ongoing from the beginning. You can ask anybody who has one of those copious libraries.", "they've got this many things of interpretation and that's just the one author. So, the idea of living interpretation is the idea that the Quran is meaningless if people cannot live it in their lives. And that means that the first characteristic of the interpretation is actually your own lives. Thank you very much.", "Thank you so much for coming to Amsterdam and joining us here today for the prayer first, and now for the lecture and questions. We're done." ]
amina_wadud/BEDAH SKRIPSI _2_METODOLOGI PENAFSIRAN AMINA WADUD_zFrGT-A4UJA&pp=ygURQW1pbmEgV2FkdWQgaXNsYW0%3D_1742928102.opus	[ "Kita mulai saja untuk acara berdasar skripsi malam ini.", "bisa berkumpul masih bisa kembali lagi di acara badas skripsi yang kedua ini ya yang insyaallah nanti akan dipaparkan oleh saudara saya, Sauki Abdul Jabbar yang akan memaparkan tentang judul skriptinya yang berjudul metodologi", "metodologi penelusuran Amina Wadud terhadap ayat-ayat keperempuanan yang khusus mengkaji tentang kajian hermeneutik dari Amina wadud itu sendiri untuk acara hari ini akan di saya bacakan dulu susunan acaranya", "dari Arijal Samsul, kemudian pemaparan materi oleh pembicara durasinya 20-25 menit. Kemudian ada pemaparannya juga sebab dari pembedah sekitar 10 sampai 15 menit setelah itu kita akan buka sesi diskusi gitu ya untuk teman-teman yang hadir yang ingin diskusi lebih jauh tentang tema yang kita yang akan di", "yang akan di bedah hari ini nah untuk mempersingkat untuk membayangkan waktu ah untuk prolog saya serahkan kepada Ariza samsul mutakin saya persilakan ya terima kasih teatma dan wasyukurandillah syaduallailahaillallah wahdahu la sharika lah masya Allah Muhammad dan abduhu wa rasulullah", "dan abduhuwarahusuluh sama mbak duk sebelumnya saya ucapkan terima kasih kepada rekan-rekan yang sudah bergambung di zoom meeting ini jadi acara bedah skripsi edisi kedua ya membedah skripsinya Kang Syawgi Abdul Jabbar yang pesen di pembahasan tentang metodologi penafsiran Amin Awadud terima", "mahasiswa pasca sarjana di UIN Senan Pelijaga Yogyakarta kemudian saya lihat ada hadir juga Kang Trijal Patur Rahman sama juga mahasISWA pasca Sarjana UIN senan pelijaga yogyakartada kank Abdurohman mahasIsWA paska sarjanda di UN-UN Senang Gunung Jati Bandung dan temen-temen dari mahasIswA atau mahasisuY di SETEFI Garut ya ini berdeskripsi edisi kedua", "setelah sebelumnya di edisi pertama kita mencoba membedak skripsinya Teh Akma tentang semiotika itu. Jadi intinya bahwa program ini sebetulnya berangkat dari program kita mahasiswa persis di Yogyakarta, mahasISWA Pasca Sarjana Persis khususnya karena yang kita sebut dengan HMPP kurang lebihnya atau Himpunan Mahasiswa Pasca Sardiana Persatuan Islam", "Yang sama sebenarnya di antara programnya adalah bedah tesis kalau kita di Jogja. Kita adalah beda tesis. Kemudian saya selaku alumni STIPI mencoba menginisiasi ke rekan-rekan mahasiswa-mahasiswi STIPi yang baru saja selesai sidang untuk bedah skripsi gitu ya. Kalau kita di PASKA, bedah tesis. Saya coba ke teman-teman ini bedah", "Kemudian ternyata ada juga di Tajadid Institute yang dimentori oleh Prof. Atif itu bedah disertasi. Saya kira ini sangat menarik dan hal yang positif yang tentunya harus terus digelorakan oleh kita selaku mahasiswa, baik di serjana ataupun pasir-serjana, untuk menopang bagaimana karir akademik kita ke depan.", "yang dibangun di kampus kemudian dibantu oleh kita para mahasiswa dengan membuat satu kelompok-kelompok kajian yang itu satu bisa menambah wawasan tentu kemudiaan menambahl juga jaringan atau relasi ya Nah saya selaku alumni stepi tentunya mencoba mendatangkan rekan-rekan pembeda itu dari temen-temen yang pasca sarjana di WN WN Senayan Kalijaga Yogyakarta salah satunya Mas Menderet sekarang jadi", "sekarang jadi mungkin nanti rekan-rekan atau adik-adik dari stepi setirnya bisa nanti tanya jawab atau diskusi lain sebagainya berkaitan dengan hal-hal yang ada kaitannya dengan tulis menulis skripsi tes dan lain sebuah YouTube ke temen-temen yang ada di UNUIN Senang Kelijaga Yogyakarta yang sedang menempuh program magister gitu Nah apalagi eh", "itu di Prodi Ilmu Tukuran dan Tafsir. Kemudian di STP juga ada program studi ilmu Quran dan Tapsir, ada program estudi ilmuh hadis. Saya kira ini bisa menambah jaringan, menambahlah wawasan kita berkaitan dengan Quran dan juga hadis itu sendiri. Kemmudian kaitannya dengan skripsinya yang akan dibedah kali ini. Kita bahasar menetik satu bahasan yang lumayan berat lah gitu ya. Bahasar", "bahasa hermanetika Aminah Wadud itu lumayan berat. Terlebih di kalangan akademisi belum juga sepenuhnya bisa menerima yang disebut dengan hermanetic itu sendiri. Padahal nanti setelah ada peparan dari pembicara, Mas Menteri juga bisa sedikitnya memberikan gambaran secara umum bagaimana dan apa yang dise but dengan hermeneti kemudian", "penerimaan para cendekiawan atau para akademisi terhadap metodologi-metodologinya, dan juga metodik penafsiran kontemporer khususnya. Karena tentunya bahwa dalam konteks keilmuan yang sebut dengan metodologia riset atau metodology itu akan terus berkembang seiring dengan perkembangan zaman. Kemudian berbicara tokoh seperti Aminah Wadud, saya kira mungkin ini tidak begitu asing juga", "asing juga ketika beberapa waktu yang lalu kita secara serentak di media mungkin merasa dikagetkan dengan tampilnya beliau mengimami sholat jumat dan lain sebagainya. Namun, apa sih itu? Yang melatarbelakangi seorang Aminah Wadud sampai bisa melahirkan teori hermeneutik atau hidup seperti apa? Dan bagaimana kondisi sosialnya?", "bagaimana kondisi politiknya, bagaiman latar belakang keilmuannya, bagaiamana latarbelakang pendidikan keluarga dan lain sebagainya. Sehingga dia bisa melahirkan satu teori yang disebut dengan Harman Atika Tauhid itu atau metodologi penafsiran yang biasanya adalah biasa gender menurut Aminah Wadud. Bagaimana dia mengartikan gender dengan konstruksi sosial", "konstruksi sosial atau gpnt progresif atau kodrati dan lain sebagainya nah di malam kali ini mudah-mudahan kita bisa diskusi dengan pembicaraan dan juga pembeda atau rekan-rekan yang lain berkaitan dengan metodologi penafsiran yang diangkat atau yang dilahirkan dari seorang serjana muslim gitu ya dari cendekiawan muslim yang disebut yang", "Prolog dari saya, mudah-mudahan nanti kita bisa diskusi lebih jauh dengan pembicara dan juga pembeda di malam hari ini. Terima kasih. Assalamualaikum warahmatullahi wabarakatuh.", "singkat waktu kita langsung saja dengarkan pemaparan dari Saudara Soeky Abdul Jagar yang akan memaparkan skripsi-skripsinya. Saya persilakan.", "Baik. Cek. Ya, bismillahirrahmanirrahim.", "Apakah sudah ada suara saya masuk? Masuk, silakan. Bismillahirrahmanirrahim. Terima kasih kepada moderator Mbak Akmalia dan Mas Rijal Samsul Mutafin yang memberikan prolog di awal sebelum masuk kepada", "membedah atau membeda skripsi ini, saya ingin bercerita terlebih dahulu. Sebelum memilih judul dari skripti ini awalnya hanya membahas tentang ayat-ayat oligami saja yang dimana disaksikan oleh Amina Wakdud akan tetapi pada saat berhadapan dengan pembimbing", "ya alangkah baiknya lebih baik Aminah Wadud keseluruhan saja dan di mana poin-poin yang diangkat oleh Aminat Wadid mengenai perempuan maka dari itu, yang dari awal saya membahas tentang ayat-ayat poligami saya kemudian menjadi terfokus pada metodologi penapsiran Amin Wahdud", "metodologinya nanti akan membahas berbagai macam pembahasan seperti ayat-ayat kepemimpinan, ayat oligami dan ayat keperempuan lainnya. Dan untuk latar belakang masalahnya bisa masuk Mas Fijal kepada latar", "Saya menemukan bahwasannya Wadud sendiri dalam bukunya Quran and Women berpendapat atau mengakui bahwasanya diantara laki-laki dan perempuan memang terdapat perbedaan. Dalam hal biologis maupun sosiologis kulturalnya ya.", "itu sendiri bukanlah hal yang esensial bagi wadud. Bagi wadid sendiri, Al-Quran mengakui adanya perbedaan antara perempuan dan laki-laki atau fungsinya ya seperti sekarang fungsi laki dan perepuan itu berbeda terkhusus di agama kita yaitu agama Islam baik sebagai individu maupun anggota masyarakat dengan argumennya waduda", "menunjukkan bahwasannya memang Al-Quran itu atau kembali menguap bahwasanya Al-Kur'an itu sependapat dengannya. Bahwasannya di dalam Al-Quran pun antara perempuan dan laki-laki pun itu dibedakan. Maka dari itu semangat wadud untuk terus menguak tentang antara gender", "itu bertambah semangatnya dikarenakan Al-Quran pun menyebutkan bahwasannya ada perbedaan antara laki-laki dan perempuan. Kemudian berangkat dari anggapannya bahwasanya tafsir tradisional, sekarang kita masuk kepada tafsIRnya ya untuk tafsIrnya Wadud sendiri itu termasuk golongan tafsiri kontemporer dimana beliau", "sekarang zamannya tafsir-tafsir kontemporer ya seperti termasuk penjuru Roma dan sebagainya dimana wadud sendiri itu termasuki pada takdir kontemporal yang gimana wadood masuk kepada kecap cipon temporer di sana dia mengkritisi terhadap", "Tafsir-tafsir klasik itu atau tafsir-tafsiran tradisional itu syarat dengan perspektif laki-laki. Seperti kita ketahui, tidak hanya penafsiramnya akan tetapi mufasir-mufasiri di tradisinal atau klasifik itu memang sekarang terkenal", "Ibnu Fasir dan yang lainnya. Maka dari itu Wadud sangat menolak tafsir tradisional dikarenakan itu fokus kepada laki-laki. Yang kemudian Wadu menilai bahwasannya penafsiran-penafsir para mufassir klasik atau tradisinal itu akan syarat kelalakian atau disebut dengan bias gender. Dikarenakan dalam penafsyiran-penafsiran klasi", "klasik menurut wadud sendiri itu tidak menitik beratkan kepada perempuan atau kalau bahasa sekarang yaitu disebut dengan tidak adil gender maka dari tanah waduh eh seperti-seperti sejarahnya ya dimana Wadud", "sendiri lahir di Amerika yang dimana kultur sosial Amerika itu tidak syarat dengan Islam atau agama di Amerika tidak Islam itu minoritas gimana Aminah wadud itu di beliau lahir ya pada tanggal 25", "Amerika Serikat yang terletak di bagian Barat Laut Washington DC wadud menamatkan setujinya dari pendidikan dasar hingga perguruan tinggi di Malaysia Wadud Menerima gelar atau parti ya seperti kita kitalah itu memang sampai tahun 1975 akan tetapi dalam karir akademiknya", "Profesor atau religion filosofis. Profesur agama dan filsafat itu di Virginia Common ya. Itu universitas. Dan untuk penjelajahan intelektualnya. Belanjut sampai menuntut wadud mempelajari tafsir Al-Quran di Universitas Cairo. Maka dari sinilah metodologi wadu muncul.", "pada saat beliau mengenal akan tafsir-tafsir. Wadud sempat membaca ulang ayat-ayat suci atau ayat Al-Quran dari pandangan perempuan. Dia membaca penafsiran para mufasir klasik atau penafsan mufassir kontemporer", "hanya menitik beratkan kepada laki-laki dan tidak mendukung atau menitip beratan kepada perempuan maka dari sanalah wadud itu memunculkan metodologi metode logi baru yang dimana akan syarat keperempuanan atau yang disebut feminis dari sana Wadud", "Di sana Wadud ingin membela kaum perempuan, ingin membelak feminis atau ingin membera kaum perekpuan yang dimana dipelopori olehnya yang disebut dengan feminis. Dan untuk kita masuk kepada metodologi pertama, akhirnya metodolgi Wadu itu beliau Wadun sendiri jujur mengatakan bahwasanya", "itu lahir atau tercipta dari metodologi Fajrur Rahman yaitu double movement yang dimana metodogi tersebut ditawarkan oleh Fajrul Rahman kepada Aminah Wadud dengan", "tersebut ditawarkan oleh Fajrul Rahman maka dari sana Aminah wadud membawa atau mengikut kepada metode terse but untuk melahirkan metodologinya yang disebut dengan metodogi hermeneutik Hai atau metodologi hermenetik tauhid", "berasal dari kritikan-kritikan terhadap berbagai macam metode penapsiran seperti ada tiga metodologi penapsilan atau dua metodolpi penapsieran yang dimana dikritisi oleh Aminah Wadud. Yang pertama, metodology penapsisan klasik dan yang kedua, metodo penapsian reaktif", "penafsiran tradisional ini yang pertama untuk metodologi penafsan tradisionnal ini menurut wadud sendiri model penafsyran tradisio nal ini atau model eh metodologi penafsihan tradisial ini mumpung menggunakan pokok bahasan tertentu sesuai dengan minat dan kemampuan mukasyirnya jadi eh dari kritikan Amin al-wadud terhadap", "penafsiran klasik atau kontemporer ini meskipun bahasan tersebut melahirkan berbagai macam penafsyiran, terdapat satu kesamaan yakni metodologinya bersifat atomistik. Penafsiraan yang dimulai dengan ayat per ayat hingga ayat terakhir dan tidak tematik itulah menjadi salah satu kritik Aminah Wadud terhadap penafsiaran kontemporet sehingga pembahasannya terkesan parsial menurut Wadid.", "Namun ketiadaan penerapan hermenetika atau metodologi yang menghubungkan antara ide, struktur, kemudian tema yang serupa membuat pembacanya gagal untuk menangkap kelestansi cawung Al-Quran. Maka dari sana metodologi kontemporer sangat dikritisi oleh Aminah Wadud. Untuk kapsir kontemporernya ini", "kontemporer ini menurut wajud hanya terkesan eklusif jadi ditulis hanya oleh kaum laki-laki saja yang dimana tadi saya sebutkan bahwasanya penafsirah atau mufasir-mufasirkontemporer itu hampir keseluruhan laki maka dari sana tidaklah heran kalau hanya eh kesadaran dan pengalaman kaum pria saja yang terdapat part pada penafsyiran-penafsyira", "yang ada di dalam kitab-kitab Tafsir. Maka dari sana Wadud mengeluarkan visinya dan perspektif kaum perempuan, yang dimana harus masuk di dalamnya. Jadi Wadudi itu mengkritisi bahwasannya penapsiran-penapsiran para mufasid klasik ini sudah sangat terkesan eklusif lah", "maka dari sana wadud terus membicarakan harusnya ada perspektif kaum perempuannya, maka darisana luncurlah metodologi penafsiran Aminah Wadud yang disebut dengan hermeneutik tawhid. Dan untuk ada kategori kedua yang dikritisi oleh wadudi yaitu tentang kategorik aktif,", "interpen interpretasi terhadap kaum perempuan dalam Alquran isinya terutama mengenai reaksi para pemikir modern jadi dalam kategori kedua ini hanya menjelaskan tentang atau fokus kepada reaksi Para Pemikir Modern terhadapsu jumlah hambatan kemudian ya hambatan-hambatan yang dialami oleh kaum perem puan dimana disanalah yang menjadi titik", "yang menjadi titik fokus Aminawadu dikarenakan hanya membahas tentang seperti itu. Hambatan-hambatan ya. Dan yang ketiga, ada kategori yang disebut tafsir holistik dimana wadud sendiri ada didalamnya yaitu tafsiri yang menggunakan metode penafsiran yang komparensif dan mengeitarnya dengan berbagai persoalan. Di sini ini termasuk kepada metodologi aminawak", "metodologi Aminah waduh yaitu hasil menetik tahu hidyah dimana harmonetic tauhid nya itu berhasil kalau disebutnya ya hasil dari kritisan kritikan beliau terhadap taksir-taksir sebelumnya eh metodologi metrologi tetapi sebelum kemudian muncullah metode hermeneutic tawhid aminawadud yang dimana metode hormon etik ini", "yaitu metodologi alternatif yang diajukan oleh Aminah Wadud untuk metode hermeneutik Al-Quran, yang ia namai dengan hermoneutik tawhid. Metodologinya menurut Waduda harus memerhatikan tiga aspek. Yang pertama dalam konteks apa nasib itu ditulis atau diturunkan kalau di Al-Kurani disebut Asbabunujul", "Kemudian yang kedua komposisi teks atau gramatikal bahasa. Yang ketiganya dalam konteks keseluruhan ayat atau well-stamped tune atau pandangan dunianya. Perpaduan ketiga aspek ini yang menjadi fokus wadud terhadap metodologi penafsirannya atau metodology hermeneutik tawhidnya", "hasil dari pembacaan kepada maksud teks yang sebenarnya. Untuk mengimplementasikan tafsir Tauhid Aminawadud, tentu saja diperlukan ilmu-ilmu sosial, kemudian sejarah, sosiologi, antropologi dan bahkan ekonomi dan politik pun itu sangat masuk untuk mendukung atau mengimplementasikan Tafsir Tauhid Aminawadud.", "Kemudian kita masuk kepada contoh penafsiran Aminawadud. Di sini saya membawa atau hanya... Di sini Saya hanya memasukkan beberapa ayat saja yang dimana menjadi fokus Aminowadud,", "Aminah wadud terhadap penelitiannya untuk mendukung kaum-kaum perempuan akan tetapi di dalam ayat Alquran itu kurang lebih ada 27 ayat tentang keperempuannya akan tetap disini saya akan membahas hanya sebatas lima saja dengan dan", "tentang dengan ayat-ayat pasannya berbeda yang pertama saya mendahulukan surat Ani Surat anisa Ayat Pertama yaitu pembahasan tentang asal usul penciptaan perempuan Mengapa saya membawa ayat ini dikarenakan ayat Anissa ayat pertama surat anisai ini sangat menjadi titik barat bagi wadud", "bagi wadud dikarenakan Wadud sendiri eh bilang bahasanya sebelum kepada pembahasan-pembahsan tentang mengenai ke Perempuan lainnya keperkempuanan lainnya kita harus membahas dulu tentang penciptaan perempuan yang dimana dari hasil tadi metodologi", "sendiri menerapkan metodologinya dalam penafsirannya. Saya akan memaparkan di dalam Quran Surat Anissa ayat pertama yang dimana Aminah Wadud menafsikan bahwasanya, menurut Wadid keseluruhan proses penciptaan manusia ini melalui tiga tahapan. Jadi menuruti Wadidi itu ada tiga", "Penciptaan manusia yang pertama, awal penciptakan. Yang kedua tahap pembentukan serta penyerupaan. Dan yang ketiga pemberian kehidupan atau penyimpanan ruh. Allah menyatakan dalam Al-Quran bentuk yang dianugerahkan kepada manusia itu merupakan bentuk terbaik untuk memenuhi tugasnya sebagai wakil di muka bumi ya. Di sini Amin Awadud", "Aminah wadud tadi pertama ya seperti eh tadi untuk metodologi Aminoha dulu itu ada tiga langkah yang pertama yaitu kalau disebutnya asbabunujul kemudian yang kedua membahas dramatikal bahasanya yang ketiga welsansung ayatnya di sini Amina waduh sendiri dalam membahasa Ayat 1 Quran Anissa dari", "yang saya temukan jadi untuk yang saya pahami itu ya dan yang saya ikuti dari resen pemiming saya bahwasannya untuk penapsiran atau asbabunujul disini, itu menurut Aminawadud pada saat saya mencari dari penapsilan Aminowadud atau tulisan Aminwadud terhadap", "terhadap ayat satu tentang penciptaan manusia atau pencipta perempuan disitu tidak saya tidak menemukan bahwasanya Aminah wadud me-menyebutnya dengan asbab bunuh Jul karya beliau akan tetapi di sini saya langsung kepada kedua ya metode atau tahap kedua yaitu", "matikal bahasanya yang dimana dalam surat Anissa ayat pertama ini wadud fokus kepada tiga kata saja Hai yang pertama kata nafs kedua min dan yang ketiga jawab atanak sendiri waduk mengartikan sebagai diri atau secara konseptual menurut waduh pengandung makna", "Jadi nafs di sini hanya fokus kepada jenis kelamin yang netral. Tidak fokus pada jenIS kelamIn. Jadi bisa digunakan untuk laki-laki atau perempuan. Maka disanalah netralnya ya. Dia menegaskan bahwa dalam catatan Al-Quran tentang penciptaan, Tuhan tidak pernah menyebutkan penjelasan bahwasal usul umat manusia itu adalah Adam.", "Adam menyebutkan bahwasannya asal-usul manusia itu adalah Adam, menurut wadud. Bahkan Al-Quran tidak pernah menyatakan bahwa Allah memulai penciptaan umat manusia dengan naf atau seorang laki-laki yang dimana disebutkan yaitu Nabi Adam alayhi salam. Pemahaman yang netral seperti itu telah terabaikan selama ini", "Yang tidak setara terhadap asal-usul penciptaan laki-laki dan perempuan. Maka disanalah kata pertama yaitu nafs yang menjadi fokus Aminawadud untuk mengkritisi penafsiran-penafsirannya tradisional atau klasik. Yang menyebutkan bahwasanya pencipta manusia itu adalah yang pertama adalah Nabi Adam. Dan pencipsaan perepuan itu lahir dari", "lahir dari tulang rusuk Nabi Adam maka dari sana waduh menolak keras membantah penafsiran para mufasir tentang penciptaan perempuan yang dilahirkan dari tulung supa B ada dikarenakan Alquran dan Allah pun tidak menyebutkan bahwasanya pencipta anperempuannya itu tidak menjebutkan didalam al-qur'an bosnya", "atau kata yang dibahas oleh wadud, yang kedua dalam ayat 1 surat anisa ini yaitu kata min. Dalam bahasa Arab menurut waduda, min mempunyai arti dua fungsi dasar. Yang pertama yaitulah digunakan sebagai kata depan dan yang menunjukkan kesamaan suatu hal dari hal lainnya.", "Kemudian yang kedua, min di sini diartikan atau disebutkan dari. Maka dari sanalah ada dua arti dari min dan kata min. Dan yang ketiga yaitu fokus wadud yaitul jauhz. Yang dipakai dalam Al-Quran untuk arti menurut wadid.", "Untuk arti teman, pasangan atau kelompok. Jawa ini bentuk jama dari azwaj. Bentuk jema dari jawaj adalah azwad yang digunakan untuk menunjukkan pasangan. Kata inilah yang digonakan untuk merujuk kepada penciptaan manusia. Yang kedua yang kita ketahui sebagai hawa.", "Tadi disebutkan bahwasannya penciptaan perempuan itu tercipta dari tulang rusuk Nabi Adam. Akan tetapi bagi wadud, penciptaan kedua manusia itu yaitu ibu atau hawa ya. Ibu pertama manusia yaitulah hawat ya. Cara tata bahasa Jawa adalah maskulin.", "Untuk menurut Tua Dud, Al-Quran menggunakannya untuk tumbuh-tumbuhan yang terserah dalam surat Ar-Rahman ayat 1.", "Ar-Rahman ayat 52 dan binatang yang disebutkan dalam surah Qud ayat 40 tidak terkecuali manusia. Jadi itulah perspektif wadud terhadap kata jauh dalam ayat ini. Kemudian bagi wadu sendiri, kata jawab sangat berperan untuk menggiring pemahaman mufasir plastik tentang konsep penciptaan yang didiskriminatifkan terhadapan perempuan.", "Menurutnya Al-Quran menggunakan kata jawab adalah untuk menegaskan bahwa segala sesuatu diciptakan oleh Allah adalah berpasangan. Karena itu esensi dari penciptaan yang berpasangannya adalah untuk saling melengkapi. Maka dari sanalah wadud berkesimpulan bisa menyimpulkan kata jauh dari ayat satu ini, ayat 1 surah Anisa.", "Setiap anggota pasangan atau pasangan mensyaratkan, jadi setiap anggota pasangannya itu mensyarakat adanya laki-laki dan perempuan. Seorang laki baru bisa dikatakan suami apabila ada seorang perembuan yang dikatakkan istri. Keberadaan dari salah satunya yang menjadi suatu anggotaa pasangan", "Yang disebutkan oleh Wadud mengenai kata jauh ini. Dalam memandangi ayat ini, ayat satu surat Anissa. Wadu sendiri mencermati bahwasannya berupa sirklasik cenderung menafsirkan dengan mengacu kepada sebuah hadis nabi yang menyatakan bahwa perempuan atau hawa diciptakan dari tulang rusuk laki-laki seperti alroji dalam penafsiran", "Dan tafsirnya Fatih Al-Ghoib menyatakan bahwa makna dari kalimat holakum min napsi wahidah dapat disermati dari beberapa hal. Menurut Aroji yang pertama dari kaliman holakukumin napsih wahidahlah yaitu bahwa kalimat ini menegaskan bahwa penciptaan seluruh umat manusia adalah berasal dari manusia yang satu dan yang kedua,", "yang kedua penciptaan manusia dari diri manusia yang satu memberikan dampak tersendiri bagi kelangsungan kehidupan umat manusia salah satu dampak yang dimaksudnya yang dimaksud Aroji adalah akan terjadinya hubungan sekaturahmi yang kuat antara sesama mereka dan dapat memperarat rasa kasih sayang atau mahabbah diantara mereka itu", "Menurut ROG yang kemudian pendapat tersebut oleh Wadud tidak bisa diterima dikarenakan dengan pemahaman seperti itu, terkesan bahwasannya status perempuan lebih rendah daripada laki-laki. Dalam konteks inilah dia berpendapat bahwa perembuan adanya reinterpretasi terhadap ayat terse but.", "Konsep pemikiran yang demikian menurutnya melahirkan suatu pemahaman bahwasannya penciptaan laki-laki dan perempuan sebagai sebuah pasangan merupakan bagian rencana Allah. Maka dari sana antara kedua bagian dalam pasangan tersebut sama pentingnya. Jadi menuruti Wadud, kalau tidak ada suami, kalau sudah ada laki dan", "ada yang namanya pasangan maka dari senalah muncul pasangan yang dinamakan dengan suami istri dan kemudian yang ketiga masuk kepada tahap metodologi Aminah waduh dalam ayat ini yaitu wadud menjelaskan bahwasannya", "Namun Al-Quran menegaskan bahwa manusia sengaja diciptakan dalam pasangan laki-laki dan perempuan yang tertera dalam surat Fatir ayat 11 dan Anajem ayat 45. Terdapat juga dalam surah Ali Imran ayat 36. Di sana, di dalam Al-Kur'an tersebut tidak memberikan karakteristik yang tegas bagi tiap-tiap bagian pasangan.", "bagian pasangan jadi disini jelas ya wadud menyebabkan perspektifnya bahwasanya karakteristik di dalam ayat-ayat Alquran lain pun tegas bagi tiap-tiap bagian perasaannya Jadi bagi Wadud al-qur'an hanya mengacu pada fungsi biologis", "Arop ayat 189 bukan pada persepsi psikologis dan budaya pengasuhannya. Atas dasar itulah kemudian Wadud menegaskan bahwasanya asal-usul umat manusia baik laki-laki atau perempuan berasal dari nafs tunggal yang dimana merupakan bagian dari sistem berpasang pasangan.", "Itu ayat 1 mengenai penciptaan atau asal-usul penciptaan perempuan. Yang dimana Wadud sendiri berkesimpulan bahwasannya perembuan itu muncul atau lahir dari nafs yang tunggal, yang merupakan bagian dari sistem keberpasangan-pesangan. Kemudian masuk kepada ayat keperempuanan lainnya yaitu tentang kepemimpinan.", "di mana tadi sudah disinggung sedikitnya oleh Mas Rijal tentang Aminah Wadud menjadi Imam Jumat di Amerika sana. Di sini saya membahas, di sini saya menerapkan ayat kepemimpinan surat Anissa ayat 34 yang dimana untuk", "turun ayat ini menurut wadud, jadi ayat kepemimpinan ini dikaitkan kepada rumah tangga oleh wadu. Fokus kepada rumah sangga. Jadi pada umumnya rumah tang가 didefinisikan sebagai sebuah keluarga yang terdiri dari suami istri dan anak-anak.", "Keluarga merupakan sebuah institusi yang menyimpan isu dan problematika yang berkepanjangan. Jadi, problematikanya yang muncul dari kehidupan rumah tangga itu senantiasa aktual apalagi dalam situasi dan pola masyarakat yang selalu berubah. Kondisi semacam inilah yang membutuhkan seorang pemimpin yang mampu dan punya kelebihan untuk menyelesaikan problematikkannya", "problematikannya sehingga tercipta sebuah kehidupan keluarga yang harmonis damai tenang dan tentram isi dari sinilah waduh mengaitkan ayat kepemimpinan kepada atau iait kepemimpinan terhadap rumah tangga dikarenakan dalam rumah tanggalah menjadi titik fokus lahirnya atau membutuhkannya seorang pemimpin dalam menjelaskan kata", "Masuk kepada kedua, yaitu tentang gramatika bahasanya. Di sini Wadud hanya membahas kata koam dalam ayat kepemimpinan ini. Waduda hanya membAHAS KATA KOAM SAJA. Dalam menjelaskan kata Koam, menurut Wadun Paramupashir Klasik", "Jadi laki-laki itu bertanggung jawab terhadap pendidikan istrinya dan melindungi mereka. Nah berkaitan dengan kualitas laki yang lebih daripada perempuan ini sebagaimana yang sudah ditetapkan oleh Allah kemudian diperkuat dengan budaya patriarkasi yang sangat membedakan eksistensi laki dan perepuan", "Sebagai mana pandangan Mufassir sebelumnya, menurut Wadud tidak hanya dipahami saja sebatas hubungan suami istri semata. Akan tetapi harus dipahamin dengan konteks yang lebih luas yakni masyarakat secara keseluruhan.", "fungsionalis yaitu suatu konsep untuk menggambarkan hubungan fungsionale antara laki-laki dan perempuan dalam masyarakat secara keseluruhan Nah dari sinilah hubungannya fungsio analis tersebut cara kongkripsi dapat dilihat dari tanggung jawab masing-masing pihak antarake laki dan Perempuan Dalam perspektif harmonetika gender atau hormon etika ya harmonetikajernal", "Langkah-langkah yang ditempuh oleh Wadud dalam memahami ayat kepemimpinan tersebut cukup sistematis. Jadi melihat seperti tadi yang disebutkan bahwasannya di dalam keluarga itu sangat membutuhkan seorang pemimpin, maka dari sinilah konsep terse but yang Wadu berikan kepada atau yang Wado menciptakan terhadap kepemipinan.", "Maka dalam membangun masyarakat, tanggung jawab perempuan itu adalah melahirkan generasi anak penerus bangsa. Dan tanggong jawab inilah yang memerlukan kekuatan fisik, stamina, kecerdasan dan komitmen personal. Menurut Wadud sendiri untuk menjaga keseimbangan dan keadilan maka seorang laki-laki juga memiliki tanggng jawab yang sama", "Al-Quran dengan kata qawam. Dalam konteks inilah, qawm dipahami dengan makna kemampuan seseorang atau seorang laki-laki untuk memberikan perlindungan fisik dan dukungan material terhadap perempuan. Oleh karena itu apabila seorang lagi tidak mampu memenuhi tanggung jawab, maka dia tidak pantas disebut qawwam. Maka dari sinilah wadud berkesimpulan", "Kita bisa melihat dari suatu keluarga akan menciptakan satu kepemimpinan. Maka, dari sinilah seorang pemimpin lahir dengan konsep amina wadud tersebut yaitu konsep fungsionalitas. Kemudian masuk kepada ayat yang ketiga", "ketiga yaitu problematika poligami yang dimana ayat ini kurang lebih yang saya mau bahas awal sebelum membahas tentang metodologi ini. Untuk ayat poligaming, saya membawa surat Anissa ayat 3 di mana menurut waduh sendiri sebab turun ayat", "wali pria yaitu bertanggung jawab untuk mengelola kekayaan maaf masoki Waktunya sudah habis ya Hai untuk pembangunan terima kasih singkat hasilnya nomor atur ia disinilah juga saya kipur", "Langsung ke pembedah, Ibu Moderator. Atau bagaimana? Karena mungkin waktu sudah habis, jadi kita langsung ke pemberdah saja ya. Silakan kepada Mas Munzir, saya persilakan untuk memberikan tanggapan kepada pembicaraan.", "silahkan. Baik, terima kasih Mbak Akmalia Salsabila. Assalamualaikum warahmatullahi wabarakatuh. Alhamdulillahirrahmanirrahim. Wa bina astai'in wa alamu dhuturnya wa ati'in. Wassalamualaukum warahmati'in wassalamu ala asyrafil amya wa barakatu wa ala alihi wa sallamu aleykum wa rahmatullah. Suara saya terdengar? Terdengarnya.", "Oke baik terima kasih atas pemaparannya Mas masyawiki Abdul Jabbar pertama saya ucapkan selamat telah menyelesaikan tugas skripsinya gas-gas akhir yang mungkin cukup bisa dibilang G standar untuk S1G", "di stai persis stai Persis ya nama kampusnya yang cukup menarik dalam kajian skripsinya saya juga meskipun Saya tidak terlalu fokus dalam kaji and gender ada disini Mbak Karina yang mungkin dia sudah menyelami dunia gender tapi", "aspek hermeneutiknya eh emas Apakah saya perlu menggunakan yang PPT kalau perlu saya tolong dijadikan kohasi on the West Indah Mas", "Mas Syawki Abdul Jabar perlu tahu dan mungkin menjadi tambahan wawasan buat Mas Syauki. Kita mulai dari temanya dulu, metodologi penampiran Aminah Wadud dalam ayat-ayat keperluan kajian hermenetika Aminnah Wadid. Sebelum menyelami kesana kita perlu kenal lebih dulu siapa Bu Aminna Wadik sebenarnya.", "Inawatu sebenarnya, Bu Amin Awadu ini seorang cendekiawan. Bisa dibilang cendekiawan, saya anggap sudah cendekingiawat karena sedang kuliah postdoktoral di Winsuka. Sebenarnya kalau misal dibilangan kenapa dia viral dan sampai sekarang masih viralnya itu masih berlanjut. Meskipun pendapatnya atau argumentasinya tentang imam itu", "imam itu, beliau sudah hilang. Ini saya dapat argumen ini dari Pak Mustaqim Direktur PASKA. Beliau sudah kilah terkait argumen itu karena menyalahi banyak aturan meskipun dalam dunia gender tidak tapi ketika masuk ke ranai Indonesia mungkin ini sudah menyalai tapi kita gak perlu mendiskusikan itu yang penting beliau dalam hal ini bagaimana kok", "Bagaimana kok beliau bisa viral? Yang pertama ada kalau bisa dipetakan itu ada dua sisi yang vertikal sama horizontal. Yang vertikal itu kegelisahan beliau terkait fenomena pada saat itu ketika, utamanya ketika beliau berkecimpung dalam dunia tafsir Al-Quran. Realitas pada saat itukan memang belum bisa menerima perempuan secara utuh.", "masih menjadi objek, belum bisa sepenuhnya menjadi subjek. Ini kegelisahan pertama. Makanya ketika beliau menjadi imam itu dengan berdasarkan satu hadis atau hadisnya pun itu masih banyak khilaf dan sangat minim yang berargumen bahwa ini hadisannya cocok untuk hadis perempuan menjadi iman meskipun bisa lagi kalau memang dalam kondisi kita itu", "itu di lingkungan kita orang-orang yang bodoh dan tidak bisa baca Quran katakanlah mu'alaf belum bisa baya Quran semua dan belum tahu rukunya sholat perempuan bisa seperti itu kalau kajian pikir konteksualnya atau pikir contemporarnya seperti itu tapi untuk yang barisan aspek satunya tadi saya aspek horizontal, aspek vertikalnya beliau ini kenapa kok", "kenapa kok terus menyentuhkan hermenetika tawhid dan beliau kan memang bergurau meruntutkan dari hermeneticanya Fazlur Rahman yang double movement itu kemudian double movement dikembangkan beliau menjadi hermenetaik tawhit sebenarnya mas Shawki disini belum menangkap bagaimana kok bisa memunculkan heromenetika tauhid, itu pertama mungkin PRnya ya mas bisa jadikan PR karena saya di dalam skripisnya meskipun jenengal sudah", "jendenggan sudah mencatuskan apa sih hermenetika taklit tapi belum sepenuhnya jendengan nanti menangkap apa sih itu hermenitika takilit. Nanti mungkin saya jelaskan sedikit. Aspek kritikalnya, itu ketika beliau mendapati penafsiran-penafsir zaman dahulu, penafsan-penasaran klasik, itu dengan perspektif laki-laki rata-rata mufassir pada saat itu memang laki lagi dan ini gak bisa di sejarah yang gak bisa ditolak lagi nah ini menjadi", "Nah ini menjadi dasar utama ketika beliau itu mencetuskan pemahaman-pemahaman yang harus menggunakan perspektif perempuan. Ini mungkin sulit pada saat itu, ketika klasik. Penafsiran perspektiv perembuan pada saat ini memang sulit. Tapi tidak menutup kemungkinan ketika peremmuan pada sekarang dijadikan sebuah perspekti ketika menefisirkan ayat Al-Qur'an.", "Itu yang pertama. Jadi Mas Syawki mungkin bagaimana beliau kok bisa mencetuskan atau bisa viral itu disitu dulu mungkin dibahasnya. Bagaimana kok dia bisa viral, itu ada dua aspek. Pertama kelesaan beliau pada saat itu memang perempuan. Yang kedua terkait penafsiran-penafsirannya pada zaman itu", "dijadikan perhatian itu kan tafsirnya ar-razzi di Malkathil web memang beliau pada nampak siranya ke hampir itu sangat-sangat dais gender dan itu sudah menjadi fakta tidak tidak tidak bisa dihapus dan rata-rata tulisan yang membahas gender atau kajian diskursus gender itu pasti tertujunya di ar-razzin jarang dalam Ibnu kasir jalan atau dari bahkan", "Perlunya mendapati di mana titik letaknya perhatian si Aminah Wadud, kenapa kok dia bisa memunculkan hermenitika ini. Kalau dalam kajian filsafat ilmu, dimana cantolan epistemologinya? Karena disitu ada ranah ruang lingkup Aminahu Hadid, ken apa kok memuncalkan itu? Jadi hermenetika Tauhid ini tidak semacam", "enggak semata-mata muncul secara langsung dia berkaca dari Fasilo Roman, tapi beliau memang punya kegelisahan sendiri yang kita tidak tahu. Nah itu salah dua faktor itu yang mungkin menjadi faktor utama dalam beliau merumuskan sebuah hermenitika kawahid. Oke, yang pertama objekat jenengan mungkin sudah cukup baik, cukup menarik. Cukup menurut saya", "yang pertama, yang ingin saya bahas itu Amina Wadud dan penafsirannya. Amina wadud dengan penafsyaranya kalau misal saya pakai standarnya UIN suka mungkin ya nggak bisa karena sudah beda tingkatnya. Ya bukan ini sombong ya, karena mungkin untuk kelas Thai atau Prodi yang baru", "dengan level yang seperti ini. Cukup deskripsi sedemikian rupa. Tapi di sini Mas Shawki belum menyertakan bagaimana metodologinya. Aspek-aspek yang tafsir holistik, asal bunuzul, terus konsep holistisnya itu dimana, terus seni gramatikalnya dimana padahal itu sangat dibahas detail dalam bukunya yang lain. Di skripsinya Mas Shawiki kayaknya kok saya lihat", "mengutipnya dari Quran and Women. Dari situ semua. Ini yang mungkin menjadi faktor kesusahan Mas Syauki ketika mengeksplore bagaimana penafsirannya si Amin Awadud. Padahal ada ruang lengkup kajian sosiologis sama antropologis yang itu sangat berparuh ketika beliau menafsiran ayat Al-Quran. Aminawadud dan penafcirannya mungkin kalau bisa dibilang tidak jauh beda dengan kajikan penafciran ulama sebelumnya.", "Kalau bisa dibilang, 70% masih metodenya. Metodenya itu masih klasik dan 30% yang perspektif perempuan. Itu yang mungkin agak modern. Dan itu pun diliputi oleh subjektivitas dari Aminah Wadud. Makanya beliau ketika menafsirkan ayat Al-Quran langsung tertuju ke bahasannya. Tidak berkata dari", "berkaca dari, sangat minim, sangat minimum berkata dari penafsiran-penafsir ulama yang terdahulu. Ini yang mungkin menjadi kritik bagi kita. Bagi kita sebagai akademisi khususnya kalau dalam kajian apalagi ketika kita menafsирkan ayat Al-Quran perlu perlu berkasa dari penasaran ulama terdahulunya sebagai pijakan awal untuk berangkat menjadi untuk berengkat menemukan makna signifikansi dari penapsiran ulama tertakdu", "terdakduk. Karena ini penting kalau tidak seperti itu nanti masuknya ke subjektif dan bisa masuk ke ranah paham yang nihilisme. Kalau pahami yang liberal mungkin Bu Aminah ini masih masuk dalam ranah liberal tapi belum terlalu liberal karena metodenya kalau saya kira-kira 70% masih klasik, 30% juga belum terlihat liberal. Dan maka dari itu ketika liberal juga belum sampai", "Ketika kita sampai ke paham nihilisme itu sudah masuk ranah, yuk pendapatku ini paling benar. Paham ya? Pahaman nihilismenya seperti itu. Mungkin nanti bisa lanjut S2 biar tahu bagaimana konsep-konsep pemikiran. Nanti kalau berkaca ke Pak Fakhrudin Faiz, nanti tahu konsep pemikerannya itu bisa digedakan. Ini nihilismo liberal, konservatif dan lain-lain. Itu ada.", "Oke, yang kedua. Hermenitika Tauhid dan menemukan substansi mana? Seperti yang saya katakan tadi bahwa Hermenetika Tahuid ini bukan sebuah metode yang baru. Tapi memang ijtihad dari Bu Aminawadud terkait penafsiran ayat-ayat Al-Quran yang mungkin yang dirasa bukan langsung dijudge oh ayat ini kok kayaknya bias gender banget. Nggak ada ayat Al Quran yang seperti itu.", "Ayat selama saya kuliah juga tidak mendengar ayat Al-Quran itu salah. Yang salah kemungkinan adalah perspektif kita atau penafsiran penafsilannya. Itu pun juga tidak sepenuhnya salah, tapi belum menggunakan metodologi yang utuh. Nah, hal berarti kata uke dalam menemukan substansi mana ini sebenarnya sudah dilakukan oleh Bu Aminah.", "Mas Syawki ini belum menemukan substansi hermenetika tauhidnya dari Aminah Wadud ketika menemukannya. Itu seperti apa? Itu belum ditemukan seperti itu. Makanya kalau saya jadi pembimbing, saya pasti menyuruh, ini mana hermenitika tauhitnya? Aspek-aspek hermenatika tauhatnya belum muncul. Kalau saya jadi pemimpinnya, tapi ya tidak apa-apa. Kalau misalnya di sini mau diperbaiki lagi, monggo. Nah ketiga, metode dan pengeksoran", "metode dan pengeksekusian ayat Nah kalau yang tadi saya lihat ya tapi siang saya sudah baca skripsi metode dalam mengeksekusi secara sepenuhnya Kalau saya baca di bukunya itu memang diaplikasikan penuh oleh Bu Aminah jadi secara yang pertama menemukan asyafun Nuzul mungkin yang mas-mas siapa Mas shawky ini belum nyentuh", "perlu mengutarakan aspek-aspek itu ketika menafsirkan. Ini yang belum dituliskan. Kalau di dalam skripsinya, itu kan masih untuk menulisken konteks apa ayat itu turun. Artinya dalam kurung Mas Hoki menuliskan azabunuzulnya itu seperti apa. Azabunuzzul ini kan banyak aspeknya. Ada yang mikro dan yang makro. Ketika mikro, ketika itu berarti ayat-ayat yang berhubungan dengan ayat", "ayat itu atau riwayat-riwayat yang berhubungan dengan ayat ini, atau makro. Makro berarti faktor-faktor yang ada di luar dari penafsiran ayat atau dari ayat. Maka sebenarnya kalau saya lihat tadi punya Masyawiki belum menyertakan seperti itu. Mungkin Mas Masywaki belum sempurna membacanya atau argumen", "Argumen Bu Amirawa itu belum dibaca secara utuh. Nanti kalau misalnya di sini mungkin dibaca dulu kenapa kok beliau itu sampai mencetuskan yang aspek-aspek nusyus. Kalau dalam buku beliau kan ada beberapa faktor kurang lebih itu yang mengakibatkan penafsiran itu sangat bias gender, itu ada kurang", "Saya lupa tadi. Ada patriarki, ada inheritance dan male authority. Otoritas lagi-lagi dalam penafsiran itu yang menjadi basis faktor kenapa kok ayat-ayat Al-Quran ditafsirkan zaman dahulu itu sangat bias gender.", "belum dicantumkan sama Masyawiki. Padahal itu sangat dituliskan dalam daftar isinya kan, dituliskan itu signifikansi konteks ketika ulama-ulama terdahulu menafsirkan Al-Quran sebenarnya signifikasinya ada beberapa kecenderungan. Itu yang kedua. Untuk menemukan substansi makna ketika beliau menafsilkan ayat Al-Kur'an sebenarnya cukup menarik. Yang pertama,", "pertama, beliau memang menggunakan Asyubun Nuzul. Asyibun Nuzzul pun itu tidak hanya serta-merta cuma menggunakani riwayat atau ayat Al-Quran yang lain atau dengan munasabah, tidak. Tapi beliau benar-benar menggunainya aspek sosiologis antropologis yang dimana saat itu ayat turun maka pemahamannya mungkin kalau di zaman sekarang sangat berbeda dibanding zaman dahulu. Terus yang ketiga metode dalam", "metode dalam mengeksekusian ayat yang ketiga ini kalau bisa dibilang ya tidak beda jauh dengan ulama-ulama sedahulu karena metode kenapa yang tematik yang disebutkan oleh masyawiki itu memang benar-benar dilakukan kajiannya ayat-ayatan Quran dalam Amin Awadudzit memang komprehensif ayat ayat berhubungan dengan kepemimpinan atau ayat Ayat yang berhutungan", "warisan itu sangat disebutkan oleh, banyak disebutan oleh Aminah Wadud ketika menafsirkan ayat. Nah ini sebenarnya metode tematikan sudah banyak dilakukan oleh diskursus ulama terdahulu seperti kitab Al-Farmawi atau sekarang udah banyak kitab Mu'jamu Fahros, kitab Aroqib ala Subhani terus kitabnya Al-Mujamal Fahrus Al-Quran itu sebenarnya sudah banyak. Sebenarnya tidak serta merta ini hal yang baru tidak tapi memang", "metode yang beliau tawarkan, yang paling berbeda itu ketika menggunakan perspektif perempuan. Ketika mengunakan perspekitif perempuan, yang menurut saya ini cukup bisa dibilang, bisa cenderung ke subjektif, bisa objektif. Kenapa kok bisa diblang subjektiv? Subjektif ketika beliau tidak melakukan survei. Dalam artian ayat-ayat yang ditafsirkan beliau itu murni dari ijtihad beliau tanpa mempertimbangkan", "mindset atau konstruksi pemikiran wanita yang lain. Padahal ini sangat penting kalau misalnya menggunakan perspektif perempuan. Jadi tidak serta-merta hanya menggunakannya sendiri. Yang kedua, kenapa kok bisa dibilang objektif? Objektif karena beliau menggunarkan permainan gramatikal Arab di situ. Beliau mengunakan teori semantik dalam hal ini. Nah, semantikknya ini yang mungkin sangat sulit", "Ya bisa dibilang kalau zaman dahulu, zaman klasiknya ini sudah banyak dilakukan. Tapi untuk penggunaannya Aminah Wadud ketika menafsirkan ayat Al-Quran atau di Quran Win Women itu sangat-sangat tuntas. Dan akan nanti bisa baca di artikelnya jurnalnya Mas Afifur Rahman Syahroni, aluni CRC SUGM itu beliau membandingkan antara Muhammad Talbi dan si Bu Aminahu Wadid.", "Bu Aminah Wadud ini sangat komprehensif ketika menafsirkan ayat Al-Quran dengan analisis bahasa. Sedangkan Muhammad Talbi ini zonk. Karena menurutnya kalau dengan analesis bahasa itu tidak serta-merta bisa menemukan makna yang baru. Itu kalau menurunkan Muhammad Talbiyah. Nah, menuruk saya cukup menarik dalam kajian skripsinya. Cuman mungkin ada beberapa saran yang mungkin saya sarankan untuk", "bisa dibilang standarnya lebih. Kalau dalam kajian Hermenetika, apalagi sudah menyebutkan Hermenitika di judul skripsi, saya itu langsung kebayang sebenarnya yang digunakan dalam kacian tulisan itu Hermenikia apa? Kalau jenengan nanti mau menulis tentang Hermeniteka tentu tidak bisa lepas dengan belajar atau membaca bukunya Pak Sairon Syamsuddin.", "yang Hermenetika dan pengembangan ulama Quran. Itu ada yang edisi terbatas. Nah, di dalam bukunya itu beliau mengembangkan empat aspek atau empat term terkait Hermenitika. Yang pertama, Hermeneus artinya menafsirkan ayat secara langsung atau menafsilkan, menjelaskan teks secara", "menafsirkan ayat Al-Quran secara langsung itu bukan hermeneutik, tapi hermenes. Meskipun nanti kalau ditarik secara akar kata itu bisa dibilang hermèneutik. Tapi beda karena sanad keilmuannya Pak Sayuran berbeda. Akhirnya beliau membuat klasifikasi yang seperti ini. Yang pertama hermenez, menafsyirkan", "Bu Aminawadud. Nah, dalam posisi Mas Sawki ini sebenarnya belum menyentuh aspek menafsirkan. Tapi kan sebagai penjelas apa sih yang ditafsirkan Bu Aminawadud dan bagaimana metodenya ketika menafsilkan. Nah Bu Aminiwadu ini sebenernya masih menggunakan atau masih dalam taraf hermeneutik interpretasi langsung. Jadi", "Belum atau tidak masuk ke hermeneutik. Nah, definisi yang hermèneutik ini metode bagaimana interpretasi teks. Nah ini yang berada di posisinya Mas Syawki. Posisi Mas Syakir disini itu sebagai herméneutik atau membedah bagaimanan metodologi Bu Amin Awadu dalam menginterpretasi tex. Ini posisianya Mas Syarqi disini. Jadi perlu tahu mas", "Jadi perlu tahu mas bagaimana posisi jenengan. Karena ketika ditanya, kenapa kok kamu membahas hermeneutik? Apa itu hermeneeutik? Tentunya jenenga harus bisa jawab. Hermeneutic itu ada kesenambungan antara tiga aspek, tiga unsur, author text and reader. Itu jenengahan nanti masih umum, hermenetiknya secara umum. Tapi kalau jenengang nanti sudah diwin suka ya, amin gitu.", "ternyata tuh selama ini kita salah ada empat aspek ternya terhormon etik itu Hermen es hermen etik filosofis hermeneutika atau hermoneutika filosofi sama hermine teka filosofie atau filsafah termenetis nah posisi masyaki berada masih di dalam posisi yang kedua jadi sebagai penjelas metode dari bu Amin awadid dalam menafsirkan", "atau kalau Pak Sairon menyebutnya Hermenetika Filosofis. Nah, ini yang jadi skripsi saya. Saya posisi di sini. Hermenitika Filsofis ini membedah ruang lingkup dari seorang mufasir atau seorang pencipta teks. Dalam hal ini saya tidak langsung turun ke ayatnya atau ke hadisnya tapi saya terjun", "terjun ke seseorang yang menafsirkan ayat-ayat tentang perempuan. Saya meneliti tentang Abdul Halim Abu Syukoh, kalau partisipan tahu itu juga tokoh gender yang menjadi inspirasi Pak Yudin Abdul Qadir dalam menuliskan bukunya Kira'ah Mubaddala. Itu disebutkan. Dalam inspirasinya beliau itu menggunakan", "pembacaan dari Abdullah Lim Abu Syukoh. Saya meneliti kajian Abdullah Lim Abusyukoh, dia tidak beda jauh dengan ulama-ulama sebelumnya kalau Abdullah Lim itu menggunakan metode tematik maka kalau misal dia ke hermeneutik contoh misalnya hermenetika Aminahudzat tapi kok beliau itu enggak menggunakann metode temati itu belum bisa karena dalam hermenetic harus mengkaji seluruh ayat-ayat yang memiliki relevansi", "konsep atau tema yang kita ambil. Itu yang sangat ditenangkan dalam hermeneutik. Dan sangat jarang kalau menafsirkan ayat Al-Quran cuma dengan satu ayat, kecuali yang bisa kita sebut itu Pak Muhammad Syahrur. Mungkin jenangan tahu yang kemarin Viral Dewin suka, Milku Liyamin, itu kan berangkat dari pembacaan Muhammad Syarrul terkait ayat-ayat Milku liyamin. Muhammad Syarul kalau bisa dibilang sangat-sangat liberer. Bahkan Pak Sayron dalam bukunya", "Syairon dalam bukunya itu memang menyebutkan salah satu tokong mufasir atau pembaca ayat Al-Quran yang masuk dalam ranah subjektifis. Itu salah satunya Muhammad Syahrul. Selainnya seperti siapa? Nasr-Rahim Abu Zaid, Khalid Abu Fadl. Itu masih ranah objektifiskum subjektivis.", "kaofilosofis untuk membaca pertama metodologi di sini. Yang kedua terkait ruang lingkup dari penafsir. Apa sebenarnya yang melingkupi faktor-faktor apa yang melatar belakangi penafsyir sehingga dia menghasilkan pemahaman seperti itu? Sampai si Abdul Halim Abu Syukoh itu sebenarnya bisa dibilang dia masih konservatif dalam membahas ayat-ayat sadar atau ayat awroh.", "ayat-ayat Allah. Tapi beliau bisa masuk ranah yang objektif, so objectivist cum subjectivis. Beliau pemikirannya progresif. Dalam pemaparannya kan beliau sampai menyebutkan kalau sebenarnya jilbab atau ayat yang menutup aurab ini sebenarnya yang disariatkan itu apanya? Beliau sampai mengkritisi seperti itu. Tapi", "Dan berangkat dari argumen-argumen Imam Madhab yang akhirnya saya kesimpulkan, oh ini ternyata masih konservatif. Meskipun beliau sangat-sangat kritis. Itu yang ketiga. Yang keempat, hermeneutis filosofi, filsafat hermèneutis. Di sini sudah tidak lagi mempersoalkan tentang penafsiran atau ayat-ayat yang diproduksi. Tapi lebih dalam lagi, apa problem epistemologi, ontologi etikologi", "ontologi etika dan estetika dari seseorang ketika menafsirkan ayat Al-Quran. Jadi misal kita mengkaji Aminah Wadud, itu sebenarnya epistemnya Aminoh Wadid itu darimana? Epistemologi itu kan teori ilmu pengetahuan. Itu bagaimana si Aminahu Wadu mendapat pengetahuannya seperti itu. Jadi Euromenetis ini sudah bukan lagi menyentuh ranah teks, tapi sudah dalam lagi", "masuk ke aspek-aspek dari mufassir yang lebih dalam baik itu sptm epistemologi nya ontologinya sampai etikanya itu yang sampai saat ini belum pernah atau sangat minim dibahas kalau dalam ranah ini saya belum pernah menemukan nih mungkin teman-temannya lain sudah menemukkan terkait orang yang sudah menggunakan renang ini Pak Pak sayuran pun belum berani karena beliau akhirnya", "yang itu perpaduan dari Mas Ramita Buzai terus dari siapa itu Pak Zula Rahman sama punya Pak Abdullah Said nah sebenarnya kalau misal jenengan Mas Syawki nanti bisa memetakan ini lebih menarik jenengin posisinya dimana? kalau misalnya disini, monggo", "Jendekan kurang menarik. Kurang bisa wow. Tapi kalau standar biasanya yang skripsi Winsuka sekarang, kalau membahas ayat-ayat perempuan itu sudah langsung spesifik. Kalau tadi kan Mas Syawki masih menggunakan, mengambil lima contoh ayat. Warisan, penciptaan perembuan, dan lain-lain. Kalau bisa, bisa bikin tesis gitu langsung spekisif ke satu isu. Entah itu isunya yang berangkat dari pereumpuan", "atau dari perspektif perempuan. Itu sangat berbeda. Biasanya yang untuk di Winsuka sudah masuk ke ranah ini. Teman-teman saya rata-rata sudah menggunakan yang dari menitika filosofis, karena untuk membedah apa sebenarnya latar belakang dari penafsir ketika memproduksi ayat. Itu yang perlu digali. Bukan lagi berbicara tentang metodologi. Kalau metodology kita bisa baca.", "Mohon maaf nih Mas Syawgi, terus apa bedanya ketika saya membaca Quran Wind Woman sama membaca skripsi Anda? Karena di skripti Anda masih belum menyentuh ranah yang analisis dalam. Pasti memetakan, tapi itu enggak apa-apa cukup S1, cukup deskripsinya tidak apa-apalah. Oke kita lanjut klasifikasi tadi sudah", "kategorisasi hermenetika Aminah Wadud. Sebenarnya, kalau bisa dibilang, Aminahu Wadu ini masuk ke ranah yang pertama tadi juga bisa, tapi bisa juga menggali aspek kedua. Karena di mana si Aminaha Wadut ini juga menggunakan metode-metode ketika menafsirkan ayat Al-Qur'an. Yang pertama, konteks turunnya ayat. Ini sangat digunakan oleh Aminahi Waduh.", "Bahkan karena yang dikaji itu ayat-ayat perempuan, dan pasti itu punya latar belakang yang perlu ditelusuri sampai Pak Fakihudin Abdul Qadir kalau dalam bukunya Guru Amu Badala itu kan dibelakang membuat indeks terkait ayatnya. Seluruhnya itu sudah ada disitu. Jadi ketika kita mau nulis tentang pereumpuan itu sebenarnya enak tinggal ambil bukuannya Pak Fikihuddin, oh ini ayat ini coba yuk kita bahas, itu sebenernya bisa.", "Saking runtutnya Pak Fakihuddin Abdul Qadir ketika membuat teori Yura Amubatala. Terus komposisi teks gramatikal. Gramatikal yang digunakan Bu Amin Awad ini cukup dalam sampai beliau kan memberikan sebuah kebedaan antara makna yang terdahulu sampai makna sekarang. Kalau dalam kajian ulumul Quran ada kajiansi mantiknya menimbang subjek dan objek", "perspektif si penafsir semantiknya itu ketika beliau menggali makna terdahulu itu seperti apa terus mana sekarang ya dibahas tuh seperti apa itu yang digunakan oleh bu Amin amat dan juga menimbang subject and object selama perempuan itu belum bisa menjadi objek beliau akan terus melusuri bahasanya kalau dalam bukunya seperti itu sampai beliau itu yo pokoknya perspekti perembuan ini harus menjadi", "Harus menjadi analisis utama. Tidak bisa cuma menjadi objek saja. Jadi memang di situ letak subjektivitas dari Bu Aminawadud. Terus konteksturnya ayat. Kalau bisa dibilang, Bu Aminawadud yang tadi saya bilang itu tidak terlalu baru metodenya. Pertama karena beliau menggunakan metode tematik konseptual. Tematikan ada beberapa tematik konseptual, tematik surat,", "tematik tokoh sama tematik ada empat, saya lupa satunya. Sama menggunakan Tarabdib Nuzuli. Tarabdu Nuzul bahwa ayat-ayat itu diruntukkan sebagaimana ayat itu turun itu sebenarnya yang turunnya awal itu bagaimana? Ini kan juga nanti membagi klasifikasi antara makiyah dan madaniyah. Ketika ayat", "tradisinya juga berbeda, dan otomatis aspek-aspek sosiologisnya juga berbeza. Dan ketika ayat itu masuk ke kategori madaniah, itu otomatisi juga berbidang. Ada aspek yang perlu ditimbang mulai dari pasca pertemunya kaum ansur dan lain-lain, itu perlu ditimbulkan makanya dari konteks turnya ayat dalam hal ini beliau sampai menelusuri aspek sosial logis aspeks mikro dan makronya", "Oke, masuk ke lima. Nah ini untuk saran saya mas. Jangan tersinggung, karena kulino saya terbiasa mengkoreksi, jadi mungkin ini saran sedikit. Yang pertama objek kajian yang diteliti ayat perempuan atau penasiran ayat perpupuan, kemudian diapakan dan keywordnya itu sebenarnya apa sih? Objek kacian yang dileti coba jenengkan lebih spesifik", "satu isu atau ayat yang mengandung unsur-unsur perempuan itu menjadi objek. Kalau tadi jenangan masih menyebutkan lima, coba satu saja cukup. Dianalisis lebih dalam dan kemudian gunakan alat analisis yang tidak cuma menggunakan perspektifnya Bu Amin Awadid, tapi coba menggunakannya klasifikasi hermenetika. Itu yang pertama. Nah ini juga berbeda ketika kita mengkaji ayat langsung", "Langsung atau penafsiran ayat langsung. Ketika kita mengkaji penafsyiran, Mas Yawgi ini kan maksudnya mengkaci penafsilannya Bu Aminah Wadud. Otomatis ketika mengkasi penafsiaraan perspektif kita harus sangat objektif. Nanti di sini bisa ditentukan ketika posisi kita terlalu cenderung pro dengan si Bu Amina Wadid otomatis kita sudah masuk ke ranah yang subjektivis.", "Tapi kalau kita bisa seobjektif mungkin, nanti kita bisa masuk ke ranah ini. Tapi ini nanti, kita bahas nanti beda-beda konsepnya nanti. Ketika kita mau mengkaji penafsirannya seseorang, otomatis kita harus mengetahui faktor-faktor apa yang melatar belakangi si penafsyir ketika memproduksi atau melakukan pembacaan terhadap ayat Al-Quran.", "Itu sangat penting diketahui. Makanya saya jarang menggunakan atau menafsirkan ayat secara langsung. Kalau saya membuat makalah, saya jarak. Kecuali hadis ya. Karena hadis sudah beda ketika kita meruntutkan takhrij saja itu sudah bedа-beda perliwayat. Makannya ketika saya membuat makalah saya berani menggunarkan hermenetika. Pakai hermenitika Nasrallah Maitabu Zaid", "Pak Sairan dan lain-lain itu sangat bisa. Tapi, itu tergantung kapasitas juga dari penulis mau langsung atau mengkaji dari seseorang atau pemahaman seorang. Terus ini yang kedua mungkin saran yang paling agak menyingkung buat Mas Syawuki sebenarnya kalau misal pemaparannya seperti itu coba dibuatkan analisis yang lebih dalam karena tanpa analisis", "Orang berperspektif, kalau misal dengan baca bukunya saja bisa, kenapa harus buat skripsi? Tanpa membaca skripti Anda, saya pun sudah bisa membaca buku Aminawad. Orang akan berpandangan seperti itu. Itu yang sangat kita hindari. Makanya ketika kita menulis skriptsi, sebisa mungkin ini memang benar-benar terbaru. Kajian-kajian yang terbarunya. Kalau saya lihat di jurnal-jurnal sudah banyak yang membahas metode lutar.", "yang membahas metodologi atau hermenetikanya Amin Awad itu sudah banyak. Terus yang ke ini belum selesai. Saran saya yang ketiga, klasifikasikan dahulu dalam peta hermenetic yang masuk ini. Jendangan masuk ke mana sebenarnya? Kalau jendangan mau menafsirkan ayat langsung,", "berarti saya tidak langsung untuk melarang jenangan untuk menafsirkan ayat, bukan. Tapi untuk kapasitas kita coba telusuri saja konteks dari ruang lingkup seorang fasir ketika memproduksi penafsiran. Kalau sudah tingkatnya Rumen Enes interpretasi langsung terhadap teks itu", "sampai sana. Kecuali nanti sudah S2 dan bertemu Pak Sayron, nanti diterangkan dari manetika Manakumagza. Manetika Menakumajza itu kan belajar jadi seorang Mufasir. Pak Sayran berbicara seperti oh, nantinya kita ini sudah masuk waktunya untuk belajari sebagai Mufasyid. Untuk menjadi Mufasi. Iya, sudah. Karena kita Pak Sayaron menimbangnya karena audiensenya itu anak-anak S2 ya karena Pak Sayaran beranggapan, oh ini bisa. Karena kan kalau di", "kalau di Manakumangsa, Mas Rizal itu pernah membahas kan ada tiga step yang perlu dicanakan. Dan menurut Pak Sairon anak-anak S2 mampu. Oleh karena itu kemarin kan sempat ada buku terbit yang buku kompilasi artikel hermenetika Manakumbangsa itu kan berisikan anak-anan pasca dan ada juga yang anak S1. Itu kalau mau mengkaji hermenetic sebisa mungkin kita harus mempertahankan diri kita. Sebenarnya kajian kita yang hermenetric itu masuk kerana mana?", "Kalau hermeneutik berarti menginterpretasikan teks langsung. Yang hermeteutik, berarti kita membedah metode dari seorang fasir. Yang hermanetika filosofis, membeda ruang lingkup atau konteks sosio-historis dari seorangan fasir, itu ya. Terus yang keempat, filsafat hermoneutis. Mohon maaf Mas Munjil diingatkan waktunya sudah habis mungkin. Sudah?", "Oke, terakhir. Terakhir, Mbak? Terakhirlah. Analisis yang terakhiri. Mungkin di sini ada dua analisis, tapi mungkin untuk S1 untuk Mas Syawki coba buat klasifikasi seperti ini. Di sini ini klasikasi dari Abdul Said. Objektif tradisionalist, subjektivist sama objektivism modernist. Yang tradisinalist itu memang orang-orang yang mempasir-mempasir yang tekstual. Maka dari itu", "dari itu sudah sangat dihindari ketika kita membaca ayat Al-Quran dengan pembacaan yang sangat tradisionalis atau sangat tekstualis. Meskipun dalam membahas ayat al-Qur'an, ini sangat memperhatikan aspek-aspek bahasa dan menggunakan ulumul Qur'an pasti tidak bisa dihindarinya. Yang kedua, Abdul Said mencetuskan klasifikasi subjektivis. Subjektivist itu yang dikategorikan oleh Muhammad Syahrud. Jadi dia berangkat dari satu isu,", "dari satu isu, cari ayatnya langsung kemudian menafsirkan ayat-ayatan terus yang ketiga objektifis komodernis ini yang posisi dimana seimbang antara orang penafsiran objektivis atau tradisionalis tapi pemikirannya itu sudah progresif atau modernis maka kategorinya nanti bisa dipetakan sebenarnya Bu Aminah Wadud ini masuk keranak mana? apakah dia tradisinalis subjektif atau objektifs komoderenis", "modernis atau objektifis komprogresif. Itu nanti jenangan bisa petakan. Ini coba nanti bisa baca di bukunya Abdul Wahsaid Interpreting Quran The approach of methodic tafsir kontemporer, perdekatan tafsiran kontemporern seperti itu. Mungkin itu dari saya, mungkin bedahan saya atau diskusi saya. Terima kasih.", "Terima kasih kepada Mas Munzir atas ilmunya. Tentunya semakin mencerahkan kepada kita semua ya. Mungkin di sini ada pembicara yang lain yang akan menanggapi dari yang pertama, dari Mas Rijal Putra Patur Rahman saya persilahkan untuk menangguhkan perihal skripsi judul ini.", "Saya persilahkan. Sepertinya Mas Rijal belum ada. Kita ke Mas Abdul Rahman saja bagaimana ada yang bisa ditanggapi,", "tentang beras kripsi ini. Kalau tidak ada yang kasih tanggapan, pertanyaan dulu saja. Mohon maaf, karena tanggap belum ada kita ke sesi tanya jawab dulu.", "dulu tanya-tanya jauh dari yang lain silahkan untuk yang bisa yang mau bertanya silakan memberikan pertanyaan langsung saja ya silakan ibro taibro Iya bahkan kepada Ibro dipersilakan Bismillahirrahmanirrahim kedengaran jelas mungkinnya ya Iya aku dengerin", "Terima kasih pada penyaji dan juga pembedah sekaligus menyajikan skripsi yang masih hangat meskipun sudah beberapa minggu. Tapi mudah-mudahan manfaatnya pun masih terasa hangat, tidak akan hambar apalagi dingin, apaligi busuk.", "Berangkat dari tadi bahwa Hermenetika ini harus melihat antropologi dan sosiologinya, maka kita juga sebagai yang akan jadi cendikiawan muslim atau intelektual muslim, kita harus mel lihat latar belakang mengapa Hermenitika ini muncul.", "atau hanya kita mengeroyok tafsir begitu. Tapi Hermenotika sendiri berpanggut tangan, atau malah kita singgah sanakan begitu. Berangkat dari pernyataan Dr. Adi Anusa ini, saya setuju dengan pendapat beliau bahwa ilmu yang berkembang dari Islam", "motif beda niat jika para ulama motifnya menguatkan agama maka ilmu-ilmu yang disebut dengan kerenlah sekarang humaniora dan lain sebagainya itu berangkat dari taski ingin istilahnya meragukan umat Islam", "banyak orang-orang atau bahkan kaum muslim sendiri terpengar perangah ataupun ternganga gitu dengan metode Hermenetika tadi untuk ruang lingkup kajian ini harus di galak kan memang tapi dalam segi keyakinan kita itu tadi yang seperti kepadian saya ini sampaikan", "apa hermenetika harus dibekali ilmu tafsir yang benar jangan sampai kita belum mengerti taksit sudah belajar menetik aja nanti salah paham akhirnya keunjus yang terjadi ataupun kebingungan ini yang bener-bener atau enggak bener dua-duanya begitu itu pertanyaannya mungkin karena ini bukan mimbar yang ketiga", "Langsung saja saya tertarik ke tadi pernyataan sekaligus statement dari pembedah bahwa cukup jelaslah apa yang disampaikan. Tapi yang ingin saya pertanyakan adalah Hermana Amina Wadud,", "beliau ini 70% masih klasik berarti kalau klasikan acuannya para ulama pertanyaan saya Apakah Aminah wadud ini sudah memenuhi standar mufassir begitu hafal Quran balagohnya kemudian adabnya", "contoh dari 30% gendernya itu. Dari sekian contoh yang disebutkan oleh penyaji dari SAUPI tadi, saya ingin jangan semuanya lah jam 11 beres-beres. Satu saja. Contoh dari mana 30% dari gendarnya atau Hermetika Tauhinnya Amina Wadud karena tadi kan", "Tadi kan dijelaskan 30 persen. Begitu mungkin ya, jadi ketika Amir Awadun menafsirkan 70 persennya yang mana? Atau yang 30 persennya? Tidak usah semuanya lah satu ayat saja tadi tentang ayat Anissa, ayat 1 contohnya. Ya baik, mungkin pertanyaannya cukup jelas ya. Pertama ditanggapi dulu oleh Mas Munzir, kemudian nanti ditangkapi juga oleh...", "juga oleh saudara Koki. Silakan, Mas. Oke, terima kasih. 70% terkait apakah beliau itu masih menggunakan klasik? Itu saya hitung dari penggunaan dari teks-teks yang sebelumnya dalam artian seperti tematik itu sangat dominan digunakan oleh beliau. Yang kedua terkaih konteks asokonuzul mikro dan maksimal", "menunjul mikro dan makro sangat digunakan oleh pribadi jenangan tanya dimana latarnya coba nanti Masyawiki yang bisa menjelaskan saya gak meneriti secara dalam hermenetika tapi kalau menurut saya Amin Awad ini belum sepenuhnya subjektif Kalau dibilang 30% gender itu juga belum menggunakan teori yang baku beliau masih", "aspek yang terdahulu sangat-sangat bias gender. Aspek-aspek mufassir yang dahulu itu sangat-mengbuat perempuan itu terdiskriminasi. Maka beliau memberikan penawaran atau sebuah tawaran terkait perspektif perembuannya dan ini kan dari pengalaman beliau kalau Dika berkaca dari pengalamannya beliau, beliau kan punya sampai beliau cerai dengan suaminya itu. Beliau berkacanya", "berkaca dari pengalamannya dan kemudian bukan berarti beliau melampiaskan pengalamanya untuk menafsirkan ayat perempuan, bukan. Tapi untuk membuat perspektif yang baru. Oh ternyata ini kalau misal menggunakan perspektiv perembuan itu ada perspektivenya yang baru tapi kalau bisa dibilang apakah seorang Bu Aminah Wadud itu capable atau compatible untuk menafsirkan Ayat Al-Quran? Kalau misal ayat atau mufassir-mufassr itu harus", "itu harus standarnya dibakukan seperti dahulu. Harus apal Quran, malah tahu balago, aspek bahasa dan lain-lain. Terus sekarang kajian ayat Al-Quran tidak bisa berkembang dong? Itu pertanyaan saya. Kalau misalnya standarnya memfasir, itu harus masih apal Kur'an. Masih harus tahu ruang lingkup kajians seluruh Al-Kur'an seperti misalnya adalah standarnya Pak Kure Siyab. Nanti Pak Kura Siyap ketika meninggal", "Nanti kamu meninggal, berarti semuanya berkacanya kepada Pak Kurasyap. Terus misal nanti sudah masuk ke ranah 2050 misalnya. Dan misalkan saja Pak Kulasip sudah meninggal. Apakah kita akan berkaca kepada Kurasys terus? Kan tidak. Pasti ada umfasir-umfasiri yang baru menawarkan pemahaman-pemahaman yang baru. Dan itu tidak memungkinkan harus standarnya dengan Pak Kuresh. Kita pun dengan metode yang digunakan,", "seorang diri ini dengan metode yang digunakan oleh ulama-ulama terdahulu dan menurutnya menggunakan analisis bahasa, tematik dan lainnya itu dipenuhi dan terus membacanya dengan kacamata sekarang. Menurut saya itu sudah menjelaskan makna yang cukup segar, cukup baru. Jadi tidak harus mempenuhi porsi standar kalau menurutsaya. Kalau misalnya harus memenuhsi porsis standar mufasir yakin", "kajian ulama Al-Quran, kajiaan tafsir tidak akan berkembang. Sampai sekarang kalau misalnya... Ini berarti diubah begitu syarat jadi mau pasir? Kalau bukan diubahi, lebih dikembangi lagi. Kalau misal perspektifnya masih seperti itu. Jadi kalau misal standarnya harus seperti Pak Kuresh, otomatis metode yang ditawarkan Pak Sahiron pada kategori punya Pak Sahiro", "punya Pak Sairon ini cukup, punya cantalan epistemologi yang cukup kuat. Itu nggak bisa dianggap sebagai metodologi hermeneutik. Padahal metodenya Pak Sain itu cukup mewakili dari metode-metode memfasir terdahulu. Kalau itu menurut saya. Itu mungkin jawaban dari saya. Aspek yang 70 persen, 30 persen. Mungkin kalau Mas Syawki mau menjelaskan. Silakan kepada Mas Syauki untuk menanggapi pertanyaan dari Mas Ibrahim.", "kepada mas Ibrahim yang di Jawa untuk tanggapan dari saya mungkin cukup ya dari jawaban meskipun dia jadi ibid saja saya untuk jawabannya dikarenakan sudah jelas juga seperti itu mungkin", "Tahan-tahan. Atau mungkin ada tanggapan lain dari Mas Rizal atau Mas Abdul Rahman? Silakan dari Mas Abdulrahman untuk memberikan tanggapkan. Baik, bismillahirrahmanirrahim. Alhamdulillah, salatu wassalamualaikum warahmatullahi wabarakatuh. Saya sebetulnya ingin menyimak saja dari Ustadz Sawqi dan Ustadze Muhammad Mujir.", "Muhammad Mujir ya tapi dari tadi berasa dipanggil-panggil gitu Oke tekan saya mulai dari pembicaraan tentang metodologi itu dulu di tentang apa namanya syarat-syarat mufassir yang tadi sudah disampaikan atau ditanyakan oleh Ustadz Ibrahim ya", "Yang ingin saya tambahkan mungkin tadi memang sudah dijawab oleh Mas Muntir, bahwa kalau kita terikat dengan syarat-syarat yang sudah dibakukan oleh para ulama, berarti kajian tentang tafsir itu akan stagnan istilahnya atau tidak akan ada perkembangan. Lalu kemudian tadi Kang Mas Murti menyebutkan atau mengutip Pakura Sihabit.", "ditambahkan adalah bahwa komentar Pak Kurosia tentang syarat-syarat memfasir itu hanya berlaku bagi seorang yang ingin menafsirkan dengan penafsiran yang baru. Artinya, memiliki pemikiran yang barut tentang tafsir Al-Qur'an. Kalaupun kita mengutip atau kita mengembangkan dari yang sudah ada ya sah-sah saja begitu. Artanya kalau 15 kualifikasi", "Kita harus mengikuti satu per satu, tentunya kita harus menutup diri atau tidak boleh berbicara. Sehingga untuk para akademisi ini memang belum layaklah semuanya untuk menjadi seorang wafasir. Jika memang patokannya 15 syarat tadi gitu. Namun Pak Kura Siapkan memberikan tata bahwa 15 syurat itu hanya berlaku bagi seseorang yang ingin", "menafsirkan atau ingin menuangkan pemikiran baru terhadap Al-Quran. Dan jika dilihat kepada Amina Wadud, sebetulnya memang saya secara pribadi menilai beliau itu memang bukan seorang mufasir yang layak kalau diliihat dari keilmuan walaupun memang saya juga tidak layak menilahi beliau.", "Saya baru tingkat 2, beliau sudah profesor. Tapi ingin saya tegaskan bahwa memang beliau secara pribadi belum layak kalau dilihat dari ukuran yang diterapkan oleh Pakurasyahab. Karena penafsiran Amina Wadud ini memang berbeda dengan penafsan para ulama sehingga harus memiliki kualifikasi yang sudah ditentukan para ulam.", "Itu tanggapan saya untuk Ustaz Ibrahim. Lalu kemudian berbicara tentang Aminah Wadud, beliau selalu menekankan bahwa masalah atau kegelisahan intelektual Aminnah Wadуд itu berangkat dari ketidakadilan atau adanya sistem patriarki. Dan beliau sudah mengatakan bahwa tafsir-tafsir yang sudah ada itu tidak terlepas", "background para mufasirnya baik itu kondisi sosial, politik dan sebagainya. Namun jika dilihat justru komentar Aminah Wadud juga tidak terlepas dari background-nya gitu di mana kehidupan di barat memang seperti itu dan tidak bisa digenerisir di seluruh belahan dunia. Kalau misalkan keadaan di Barat memang yang dialami oleh Aminnah Wadu berbeda hanya dengan di Indonesia feminisme yang ada", "Indonesia dengan Barat pasti berbeda kajian. Sehingga memang harus dibedakan. Makanya ada kritikan dari beberapa cendikiawan kita, seperti yang tadi sudah disampaikan oleh Ustadz Ibrahim, yaitu Pak Adi Anusa ini, lalu kemudian ada Pak Misalim dan sebagainya, termasuk Pak Syamsuddin Arief juga berbicara tentang hal itu. Dan saya kira bahwa Aminah Wadud berbicaralah seperti itu", "seksual di mana beliau hidup. Sehingga kalau kita lihat keadaan Barat dan Eropa itu memang berbeda, maka kalau kita baca pemikiran Yusuf Kordowi juga beliau menulis buku tentang pikir prioritas yang menjadi kontroversial di Indonesia padahal itu untuk konteks barat artinya apa? bahwa kondisi barat memang berbeza dengan di Indonesia dan kajian feminismanya itu juga berbedaan lalu kemudian ingin saya tekankan bahwa", "bahwa para aktivis feminis ini yang sekarang mungkin Indonesia yang lebih mengidolakan kepada Barat itu tidak tahu apakah memang sudah punya dasar pemikirannya atau hanya ngeramai kenunggul gitu istilahnya ngerami kenungkul soalnya ada perbedaan yang sangat signifikan antara apa yang diusung oleh barat dan", "pendapatnya Pak Pahmi Salim, sebetulnya apapun kajian itu tidak terlepas dari hidden interest atau motif terselubung. Siapapun tokohnya yang mengeluarkan satu pemikiran dia pasti punya motif tERSELUBUNG apa yang dia keluarkan pasti ada niatnya. Nah kemudian kalau kita lihat apa yang diusung oleh Hamina Wadud itu kan kesetaraan,", "sosial ataupun politik dan sebagainya, termasuk dalam bidang domestik. Nah yang saya pikirkan motif antara apa yang kita lakukan oleh mahasiswa atau akademisi di Indonesia dengan apa yang dilakukan oleh di Barat itu berbeda. Kalau di Barak memang motifnya itu hanya ingin setara saja tidak ada unsur spiritualnya. Sehingga memang", "memang pasti yang mengutip itu laki-laki dan perempuan harus sama setara dalam semua bidang dengan alasan bahwa yang diukur itu adalah takwanya. Tapi kalau berbicara takwa, justru Allah itu sudah memberikan apa namanya? Porsinya masing-masing gitu. Takwanya seorang perembuan tidak seperti takwannya seorang laki. Laki-Laki sebaliknya tidak sama dengan peremmu jadi tidak harus sama makanya ada dua motif", "Ada dua motif kajian feminisme ini. Yang pertama, motifnya karena ingin setara dalam hal ibadah. Yang kedua, hanya ingin segera saja dalam hal yang nampak. Zaman Rasul juga sudah ada gerakan seperti ini kalau saya baca dari bukunya Fahmi Salim. Ketika sahabat perempuan bernama Asma binti Yazid datang kepada Rasulullah lalu kemudian mengadukan", "Bukan. Wahai Rasulullah, kalau laki-laki dia mendapatkan pahala mati syahid ketika berperang sedangkan kami perempuan disuruh untuk diam di rumah gitu. Kalau laki lagi pergi Jumat misalkan mereka punya ganjaran yang lebih besar sedangka perepuan sholat dirumah dan hal-hal yang lain gitu kemudian kata Rasulallah Muhammad SAW diamnya peremuan dirumahlah jihadnya dia lalu kemudia solat perembuannya dirumahu adalah shalatnya dia dan kalian memiliki pahale yang sama dengan laki", "sama dengan laki-laki. Akhirnya Asma binti Yazid ini pulang ke rumah dengan kegirangan, dan kegiran itu maksudnya atau lagi dengan gembira bahwa kerjanya mereka di rumah itu mendapatkan pahala yang setara dengan lelaki-lelaki Nah dari sini saya lihat apa yang diusung oleh para feminis parat itu dia motifnya bukan karena motif ingin setara dalam hal pahalai tapi dalam hal yang memang nyata ingin Setar agak Hai Maka dari sini perlu diingatkan eh", "secara pribadi, ya boleh saja kita menggadiri tentang feminisme Barat. Tetapi jangan sampai seperti yang dikhawatirkan oleh Ustadz Ibrahim ini. Kita ini tidak layak untuk menjadi mufasir tapi seakan-akan kita mampu untuk menafsirkan Al-Quran. Itu saja mungkin yang ingin saya sampaikan dari pemaparan yang sudah disampaikan oleh kemateri dan kemudian", "Apa namanya penanggap? Mohon maaf tadi saya sedikit keluar. Terima kasih TKP Akmalia yang telah memberikan tanggapan. Ini sedikit ya, Bu. Bentar. Menambahkan mungkin tadi sudah kepikiran tapi kesingung sama Sadabur Rahman itu. Jadi para ulama mereka sadar bahwa", "Bahwa yang mereka tulis itu bentuk dari keimanan sekaligus tanggung jawab kehilmuan. Jadi bukan berangkat dari, oh saya laki-laki nih harus tulis tafsir misalnya. Terus kenapa kalau memang itu yang jadi acuan? Istrinya kan pasti punya istri. Ya bu, tulis dong dari perempuan ini ayah sudah begini kan tidak begitu. Karena memang yang jadi accuannya", "diajuannya itu adalah keimanan, keilmuan. Bukan berdasarkan wah ini pada laki-laki. Contoh misalnya poligami kan yang merasa terjolimi itu kan perempuan biasanya. Padahal kan kalau memang itu murni dari perspektif justru perembuan yang menafsirkan", "perempuan terdolimi. Tapi kalau orang beriman tidak mungkin seperti itu. Pasti dia akan menyatakan samikna watoh, tidak akan samiknah kemudian membantah. Itu mungkin yang harus digarisbawahi pokok-pokok tadi bahwa memang kronologis ataupun sosiologi antropologinya beda dengan para hermenet baik itu Ebaha Bermas, Paul Rekur dan lain sebagainya", "lain sebagainya semahur dan lain-lain kita bandingkan begitu mereka menulis dengan niat ikhlas begitukan para ulama sementara Hermann itu berangkat dari keraguan atas Bible maka hal mati tersebut kan biblical criticism kritis me terhadap lebih bel jadi Quran dan bibol itu udah jauh gitu", "maka ketika ditanya apakah hermeneut ini gini-gini ya dari awalnya juga sudah beda sementara umat Islam tidak ada yang meragukan emang bener gitu Alquran tuh padahal kan disebut Quran itu mutawatir begitu itu mungkin yang kedua perangkat para ulama bukan dari aspek gender Oh saya laki-laki jadi harus begini tidak mereka berangkat dari tanggung jawab keilmuan intelek Jadi harus nulis begitu", "agar pahalanya mengalir dan manfaatnya untuk umat sementara kalau lihat ke para sosiolog antropolog misalnya berangkat dari sosialnya sendiri berbeda dengan Wahyu dari Allah semua itu mungkin terima kasih alhamdulillah wabarakatuh kepada usaha di Ibrahim agar lebih serunya semakin memanas pembahasan tentang hermetik ini Mari kita", "puasannya lebih meluas, kita lihat dulu perspektif dari perempuan ya. Dari teh Mbak Karina Rahmi silahkan untuk memberikan tanggapannya. Baik, terima kasih atas kesempatannya. Mungkin saya seperti sebagaimana tadi Mas Munjir ya karena kebetulan Mas Munujir itu teman satu angkatan di Jogja.", "Jadi saya pun patut untuk mengapresiasi Mas Syawki, telah menyelesaikan, telAH memberikan angin segar khususnya di Saiti. Mungkin sebelumnya perkenalan dulu, Saya alumni dari Ranca Bobo dan saya sudah menjadi alumni juga dari Tafsir Al-Quran Winslan Kajaga", "karena saya apa sebagai peserta jadi eh Saya hanya menanggapi aja ya gitu eh sebagai perwakilan dari perspektif perempuan karena kan ini sedang membicarakan perembuan enggak adil dong kalau misalnya hanya laki-laki yang berbicara gitu itu jadi eh apa ya sebagaimana tadi mungkin sudah disingkir oleh Mas Munyut di awal sejauh ini saya juga", "terkait aktif dalam isu-isu terkaih dengan keislaman keperempuanan. Sebagaimana yang saya kemarin ketika nulis skripsi, saya secara khusus ingin mengetahui bagaimana persis memandang perempuhan. Nah salah satunya saya temukan dari buku guru besar kita yakni Ustadz Acen Zakaria dalam buku Tarjah Tunisa. Itu menjadi kabar baik", "kabar-kabar yang baik untuk saya sendiri, ternyata persis pun peduli akan perempuan. Dan ketika saya juga melihat Mas Yawki menggunakan meneliti terkait dengan keperempuanan, saya pasti bahagia sebagai alumni dan sebagai perembuan. Mungkin tadi menanggapi hal-hal yang sedang memanas sekarang di diskusi, ini kan kita", "Jadi tidak adil kalau tidak ada perspektif perempuan. Tadi sebagaimana dikatakan oleh salah satu pembahas bahwa perembuan itu menafsirkan Al-Quran hanya ingin mengambil kesetaraannya saja, tidak ada dasarnya menyelahi kodrat dan yang lainnya. Tapi saya merasa bahwa kultur dari Amina Wadud atas lingkungannya", "memberikan dampak apa ya tidak menjadikan ketika dia masuk ke Indonesia itu tidak berlaku sama sekali tidak karena saya sependek yang saya ketahui sendiri gitu ya pendek pembacaan saya bahwa Aminah wadud membahas tentang perempuan dan di Indonesia pun ada perembuannya gitu loh Jadi kenapa untuk tidak menggunakan itu menjadi sebuah perspektif yang sama gitu loh sama-sama peremuan itu Itu yang pertama lalu yang kedua", "kaitan dengan kalau misalnya Aminawadu ke Indonesia berarti dia itu hanya membawa kultur-kultur ketika dia di barat atau ketika di lingkungannya. Tapi, ketika kita lihat sekarang bagaimana banyak sekali ulama-ulama di Indonesia pun yang sudah mulai membuka mata akan posisi perempuan", "kepentingan semakin dirugikan oleh hasil-hasil penafsiran. Bisa digarisbawahi, hasil penasaran bukan atas ayat Al-Qur'an. Jadi yang di sini kita mempermasalahkan paham keagamaan yang dihasilkan oleh para mufassir, bukan kita mempersalahkan ayat al-quran itu sendiri.", "Saya sebagai perempuan, justru ketika melihat para lelaki berdiskusi dengan kacamata laki-laki yang seperti itu, saya tidak bisa diam untuk sebagai perempuan. Makanya di sini terima kasih kepada Mbak Moderator sudah memberikan waktunya. Di sini saya hanya memberikan perspektif bahwa kita sebut saja itu kestaraan gender atau pemberdayaan perembuan", "perempuan, itu bukan suatu hal yang baru. Justru itu sudah dilakukan oleh sirkel terdekat Nabi yaitu istri Nabi. Sebut saja ketika bagaimana Umus Salamah menentang adanya ayat bahwa hijrah itu kenapa sih kok hanya untuk laki-laki? Kenapa kok pereumpuan itu tidak ada hijrah gitu loh? Terus misalnya ketika Aisyah bisa lebih pintar dari laki pada masanya gitu loh. Jadi ya itu bisa dijadikan sebagai", "perempuan itu tidak selemah itu. Perempuan ini tidak yang harus kami inawa atau enak terus, perepuan itu punya jati dirinya sendiri. Itu perspektif saya ya gitu memandang bahwa kenapa sih kok pereumpuan itu selalu di nomor 2 kan seperti itu. Terima kasih. Ya terima kasih Mbak Karina atas tanggapannya yang luar biasa dari sisi pereimpuan", "Sudah mau kiri saya sendiri mungkin ya. Dan perempuan-perempukan lainnya. Mungkin kita... Aibrotu. Bentar ya, kita... Anhar, Anhar ngasih tanggapan. Kita ke Anhar dulu, ke Mas Anhar. Bagaimana tanggapannya? Tentang deskripsi ini silakan kepada mas Anhar", "silakan kepada mas Anhar kita di Garut apa di Jogja itu nano-nano a Hai Rijal dimana ya tapi masih di Bandung ah ingon payun ke Jogjak baik-baik terima kasih Assalamualaikum warahmatullah wabarakatuh Waalaikumsalam", "Saya sambil ngapain D nya itu ya. Pembeda orang kali. Baik, terima kasih perkenalkan sebelumnya teman-teman sekalian. Nama saya Anhar, Alhamdulillah pernah tinggal di Yogyakarta dan sempat menjadi mahasiswanya Pak Sahiron gitu ya. Dan Pak Sofiullah Muzamil. Mas Munzir kenal kali ya itu. Kenal dekat tampaknya itu.", "Tapi bukan dari jurusan tafsir ya. Suara saya jelas nggak teman-teman sekalian? Jelas mas, jelas. Baik ini terkait dengan diskusi hari ini cukup menarik ya apalagi teman di usia yang sangat belia begitu dibandingkan dengan saya. Saya lulus S2 itu tahun 2013 jadi belajar ilmu Al-Quran waktu di Pasca Sarjana itu kira-kira tahun 2011-2013 ya. Jadi sekarang sudah banyak lupa lah", "lupa lah kira-kiranya itu. Apalagi jarang baca buku yang berkaitan dengan pengembangan kajian tafsir, teman-teman sekalian. Terakhir buku saya baca itu Mas Munzir, itu buku-bukunya Sahil Mehar sama bukunya Jos Grecia. Grecia, Sahil Mehra, Abdullah Syahid, dan Epistemologi Tafsir Kontemporernya Profesor. Sekarang sudah jadi profesor beliau ya. Profesur Dr. Haji Sahiroqwa Abdul", "Amdumustakim di OSQ Ar-Rahmat, Yogyakarta. Baik ini kajian tadi Mas Sauki ya. Mas Sau ki masih bergabung kan? Cukup menarik ya terkait dengan skripsi hermeneutika siapa itu? Aminawadud gitu. Yang ini saya kasih tanggapan terkaih dengan beberapa hal yang disampaikan oleh teman-teman terutama mas Ibrahim tampaknya kekeh dengan apa namanya kegegalan hermaneutika di barat", "diterapkan oleh orang Islam untuk mencoba menginterpretasi Al-Quran. Ini kalau boleh saya kasih semacam tanggapan teman-teman sekalian, jadi untuk ini terkait dengan metodologi diskusi kita supaya lebih hidup lagi. Jadi kalau bisa perspektifnya adalah Islam sebagai ilmu begitu ya teman kalian karena kalau kita pakai Islam sebagai ideologi memang sudah selesai dan temen-temen bisa baca", "Dan teman-teman bisa baca kalau mengkantor hermeneutika, ya baca saja bukunya Dr. Adian Hussaini, Kaprodi Doktor di Universitas Ibn Holdun dan juga Ketua Dewandawah Indonesia. Beliau beberapa buku yang saya koleksi, kebetulan saya kolektornya buku Dr. adian hussain ini pasti mengkanter pemikiran-pemikiran yang berkaitan dengan hermoneutika atau pengembangan-pengembangannya hermneutika dari mana pun datangnya mau dari barat, mau dari yang manapun", "wherever they want, whether it is Occidentalism or Orientalism, all of them are rejected. That's the first thing. Then secondly when Mas Shawky raised this question I appreciate because there are rarely students who dare to enter a field that is slightly different from the culture in Islamic Unions. Even though I see since 2000-ish,", "Islam yang mencoba untuk bisa masuk ke ranah ini begitu dan salah satunya mungkin Mas Sauki itu saya gak tahu ini pemimpin skripsinya siapa jangan-jangan alumni Jogja juga atau alumni Winsoran Kalijaga nah ini teman-teman sekalian tadi saya sepaham dengan mas Munzir ya, mas Sauki mungkin jika ini mau dipublish atau diterbitkan langkah baiknya kalau kemudian pakai analisis yang lain", "Mas Sawki kutip dari George Grecia, yang terkait dengan teori understanding atau interpretasi. Itu nanti bisa dikembangkan di situ dan saya yakin nanti kajian ini bisa lebih komprehensif lagi kalau sekiranya Mas Sawgi bisa menjadi salah satu bagian dari mahasiswa pasca sarjana di UIN Senarang Gelijaga. Jadi kalau Mas Munzir tadi bilang memang kalau dibawa ke kampus UIN pasti agak usang tema ini, kira-kira begitu.", "Nah, cuma kebetulan Amin Awadun sekarang kan lagi di UIN ya. Baik, kemudian teman-teman sekalian terkait dengan hal ketiga yang mau saya tanggapi itu kan. Ini agak loncat-loncat tadi saya denger ini memang agak sambil membong anak gitu ya. Jadi, yang mana dulu? Nah, ini yang ketiga teman–teman kalian untuk apa namanya yang berkaitan dengan tema malam hari ini", "ini itu kan kalau memang itu berangkat dari apa tadi Mas sempat dihidupkan lagi LL apa tuh yo yo saya banyak saya tersebut nanti bisa iya Ibrahim anamina aslinama Hai bro iyo ibrahim orang-orang garuda yoyoi atik coba2 lebaran buah-buahan", "buah-buahan ya, lorennya. Jadi memang untuk kajian keilmuan begitu teman-teman sekalian, sekali lagi saya sampaikan, saya cukup apresiasi dengan hadirnya teman teman, kemarin kita tesis hari ini skripsi sudah agak canggih dibandingkan dulu yang penting lulus gitu kan. Dan sekarang berani ditampilkan di halayak dipresentasikan", "Jadi kira-kira itu ya teman-teman sekalian, dua hal yang ingin saya sampaikan. Saya kira cukuplah untuk tanggapan sekilas. Ini mungkin ke depannya saya mau ikuti dari awal sampai akhir supaya lebih jelasnya. Cuma kalau bisa jadi perspektifnya sama dulu. Jadi kita anggap sebagai bagian dari pengembangan keilmuan. Karena kalau misalkan mau kita diskusi seputar ini terpakai tidak secara implikasi di lapangan, implementasi di latihan, itu mungkin kita kembali kepada hinduk organisasi kita masing-masing ya temen-temen sekalainya.", "ya teman-teman sekalian. Tapi kalau kita anggap sebagai sebuah pengembangan, nantikan nanti ada dialektika di situ. Kalau sudah ada dialeptika, insya Allah nanti barangkali ya temen-temen sekalien ke depannya ketika teman tersebut dilanjut itu bisa kemudian setelah kompresensi lagi menghaji tema-tema dalam agama kitalah. Jadi saya sendiri jujur ya ketika kuliah UIN itu banyak agak sedikit masuk dengan pemikiran dosen-dosen yang ada di UIN Senang Kalijaga. Tetapi", "tetapi ketika sudah kembali ke masyarakat ya saya abaikan itu semua gitu kan kira-kira begitu Mas Ibrahim gitu ya itu saja teman-teman sekalian saya dengarnya sambil ngomong anak sih kurang begitu jelas di awal sampai akhirnya terima kasih Assalamualaikum Wr. Wb", "Silahkan kepada Mas Rijal Fatur Rahman, karena sudah ada ya untuk memberikan tanggapannya.", "berdua membantu mohon maaf ya tadi tidak sempet mengikuti dari awal tapi di tengah-tengah kepotong karena ada tamu telepon dari stafnya Mabes buat bikin program segala macem jadi eh terganggu tadi Jadi tidak mengikusi full tapi tadi sedikit background mengganggu teh ganti helo wegrad nggak papa ya mohon karena hehehe accidental jadi tempatnya Ya salah kadarnya", "Nah tadi sedikit mendengar tentang hermetic, juga saya apresiasi kepada Kang Syauki yang membuat skripsi tentang metodologi Aminah Wajud. Walaupun tadi saya mendengarkan dari Mas Munzir tentang masukan-masukannya itu bisa dicatat karena", "selalu mengapresiasi kegiatan seperti ini, ini bisa menjadi ajang batu loncatan di mana studi lanjut S1 ke S2 itu tidak mudah. Bahkan sampai ke S3. Ada hal-hal yang perlu dipersiapkan apalagi tadi bicara tentang metodologi tema hari ini. Nah di S2 dan S3 sudah kita tidak memperdebatkan lagi metodology tapi kita ada perbandingan diskursus metodologie disana jadi semua metodoloji", "di S1 hanya belajar teori dan metodologi, dan mempraktekannya. Menerapkannya. Tapi di S2 bukan lagi menerapkan, tapi di kursus perbandingan di sana. Di S3 nanti kita bukan berbicara di kurnus lagi, tapi kita menciptakan metodology, menciktakan teori. Nah maka dari itu bridgingnya, kita harus mempersiapkan hal itu. Nah, kajian-kajian seperti ini saya apresiasi karena untuk mempersihapkan. Mau tidak mau hari ini, kita", "Kita sebagai bisa dibilang karena kutip warma spesies, mungkin sudah ketinggalan doktoralnya. Yang mulai populis siapa saja, profesor lah. Mungkin kita sudah harus melek ke sana. Maka dari itu paradigma kita harus mulai kerana keilmuan metodologinya jelas. Yang namanya ilmiah, metodology itu jelaskan sistematik, metodo datanya jelas dan hasilnya seperti apa.", "Nanti kerangka meteorologi bisa lah. Kalian mungkin sudah paham juga. Terkait halnya tentang Aminawadud, kalau bicara Aminowadud sebetulnya tadi juga saya mendengar dari Mas Munjir bahwa 70% klasik ya, saya bersepakat dengan hal itu karena secara spesifik dalam tafsirnya Aminwadud juga masih menggunakan 70% ayat bilayah.", "Jadi menafsirkan ayat dengan ayat. Di mana kata Aminah Wadud, dibedakan ayat yang universal dan ayatnya yang partikular. Nah maka dari itu spesifikasi ketika halnya tadi dibilang tentang ayat yg berbias gender atau laki-laki seperti", "dari sederhana perumahan. Ayat yang tidak universal. Nah, itu kita harus cari lagi ayat-ayat yang menjelaskan ayat tersebut secara kita menemukan ayat universal lalu mana ayat partikularnya. Jadi 70% secara klasik seperti itu dan nanti secara umur kurangnya juga. Dan ketika bicara Aminah Wadud, ketika berbicara satu pemikiran tokoh,", "ground kehidupan dia asumsi-asumsi awal sehingga terciptanya teori tersebut tercipta metodologi terse but ya kita bisa bilang ketika bias gender itu kan tentang penafsiran yang berapa bernuansa gender itu muncul sekitar sekitar abad 20-an kita rabah 20-annya pertama di Timur Tengah dan di Amerika di Amerika salah satunya Aminawadud itu merdeka siapa lupa lagi eh kelayak siapa", "Amin Awadud juga secara doktoral, pas di Michigan. Dan ketika itu beliau juga belajar di Timur Tengah, yakni di Cairo dan Al-Azhar untuk memperdalam bahasa Arab juga ilmu-ilmu tafsir, ulmul Quran, dsb. Bahkan mungkin belajarnya dengan syekh-syekh yang ada disana. Jadi secara sanal keilmuan mungkin Timur tengah pun dia mendapatkan ilmu tersebut dari barat dan timur. Bisa jadi ini salah satu sosok penafsiri perempuan", "penafsir perempuan yang belajar di dua benua bisa dibuat Barat dan Timur seperti itu karena dia juga mengalami belajari al-hajar dan Cairo nanti bisa dibaca di silsilah biografinya walaupun saya tidak terlalu mendalami Aminah Wadud ini sekitar DS1 lah Saya pernah bahas jual lama banget nih sedikit merepres ingatan kembali nah tadi disinggung di awal sama masrijal SM tentang Imam sholat ya mungkin ini", "pemikiran keislaman bahkan mengoncangkan dunia. Ketika bicara juga nanti hal ini, Amin Awadul serasa ingin membongkar prasangka itu. Seperti halnya diskusi kali ini, setiap orang di diskusi hari ini memiliki setiapa prasankanya masing-masing. Saya punya prasanga terhadap diskusi ini sebelum ikut itu. Lalu Mas Rizal SM punya prsanga tersendiri", "diadakan oleh kawan-kawan juga tentang tema. Mas Munzir dan Mas Hawki pun sama. Membongkar prasangka-prasangkat itu tidak mudah, apalagi prasanga-prasa tersebut sudah dilembagakan bahkan diterima dan menjadi norma. Prasangkap yang sudah terlembaga akan menjadi absolut bahkan bahaya ketika sudah dilemabakkan bahkan menjadi normal", "menjadi norma. Kenapa? Karena itu menjadi satu kebenaran suatu lembaga dan itu tidak bisa diganggu-gugan. Hal itu yang akan membahayakan kita secara paradigma pikiran, bahkan secara keilmuan, dan bahkan untuk kehidupan bersosialisasi kita. Ken apa? Karena kita memegang norma yang mutlak satu. Tidak bisa berubah-ubah walaupun sekarang mungkin sudah dunia digital apalagi dengan COVID. Dulu sholat harus nempel, sekarang terpaksa kita harus berjarak seperti itu", "berjarak seperti itu. Jadi norma itu dibongkarnya. Dibongkannya norma, itu sangat sulit sebetulnya. Dan itu sangat bukan melelahkan ya. Prosesnya harus jangka panjang. Mungkin dengan COVID ini paradigma kita semua berubah. Baik dalam tatanan keislaman, tatanan bagaimana bersosial, tatenan pendidikan pun berubahlah semua. Hal itu pun memiliki goncangan-goncangan. Begitu pun tentang kajian-kajian tafsir. Hermenetik sendiri", "sendiri itu bisa dibilang tadi ingin membongkar istilahnya. Kalau dalam paradigma mungkin paradigma tradisi keilmuan persis. Tapi kan di keilmuankan persis itu sudah punya norma tersendiri yang sudah dilembagakan dan bisa diblang kalau bicara hermenetik itu mengacunya yaudah kibrat jogja karena di Indonesia mungkin banyak memproduksi tulisan-tulisan tentang hermetik, ilman hermeti bahkan belum disemua", "Belum di semua UIN juga menerima hal itu. Tentang hermeneutik. Kalau majabnya Hamid Farmi Jarkasis jelas, bicara bahwa hermeteutik itu sudah usaha. Tapi kan bicara hermedeutik adalah metodologi. Metodologinya adalah buatan manusia. Itu bisa dipertentangkan. Begitupun hermeseutik, ketika ada yang tidak setuju, it's okay. Dan ketika Ada yang setuju itu is okay. Bisa dipakai ataupun tidak. Begi tupun tafsir-tapsir itu metodoloji", "Aksir itu metodologi. Baik itu menurut dari para ulama ataupun itu bukan. Karena itu metode dan buatan manusia. Yang tadi bahwa ayat Al-Quran itu utuh, ayat al-Qur'an itu benar semua umat muslim bahkan Aminah Wadud pun menganggap itu bener semuanya benar dan itu memiliki jalan kebenaran bahkan mengarahkan kita kepada jalan Kebenaran tapi yang kita permasalah adalah pemahaman setelah Alquran memahami Alqur'an tersebut nah hermeneutik ingin menggali itu", "menggali itu bahkan hermeneutik menggale bagaimana eh apa ya Eh ayat itu sebelum muncul seperti Aminah wadud kita harus paham dulu Bagaimana sih Amina Wadud memiliki perspektif gender bahkan tidak tidak ujung-ujung tidak tiba-tiba dia tiba langsung mengeluarkan perspek dan gender dengan nah dia akan bisa dibilang hijrah ke menjadi Islam ya Jadi dulu dia Kristen", "bapaknya juga pendeta, dia hijrah. Maka dari itu dia menemukan kebenaran yang memang menjawab problem sosialnya pada masa itu adalah Islam, yakni dengan sumber Al-Quran dan hadis seperti itu. Makanan dari itu Aminah Wadud melihat bahwa Islam itu indah, Islam itu memberikan solusi jawaban-jawabanku. Maksa dari itu muncul perspektif gender tersebut. Gender itu dipengaruhi oleh apa? Tadi.", "Tadi di Amerika sana dengan rasnya Aminah Wadud, Afrika dan Amerika. Di Amerika pada zaman itu ras budaya sangat kuat, ras hitam pun kuat. Bahkan berkuasa kulit hitam juga kuat bahkan misogini dalam pemahaman agama misogininya itu pemahman-pemahman ayat Al-Qur'an yang merendahkan perempuan. Nanti bisa bicara Fatima Mernisi", "Mert Nisi juga nanti Aminah Wadud juga memperdalam tentang pemahaman misogini tersebut. Jadi dan juga saya ingin menambahkan tentang Hermenetika Tauhid. Nah, Aminat Wadu tidak tiba-tiba langsung mengeluarkan Hermenitika Tahuid. Hermenikatauhid banyak dengan istilah-istilah Aminan Wadul di buku-bukunya Aminam Wadulu itu dengan istila kekuasaan Tuhan. Kesadaran Tuhan, mohon maaf.", "Kesadaran Tuhan. Di mana ayat-ayat universal yang memberikan kesejukan, yang memberika kesetaraan bagi Aminah Wadud itu adalah kesadaran tuhan. Jadi Tuhan memberikan secara sadar bahwa ayat ini secara universal dan memberikan jawaban secara Universal kepada kita semua tidak spesifik dalam hal kelamin atau gender.", "mulanya tadi sudah disinggung dari Fajrur Rahman double movement tadi bahkan hermeneutika of care yang awalnya Her Aminah waduh terapkan itu untuk memasukkannya perspektif gender tersebut keit Nah dari sana muncullah paradigma Hermetika feminis nanti ada hermenetik feminis nah ban Bahkan kalau penafsir-penafsiran perempuan bisa dibilang arti secara sastra dan juga bintu syatik", "bisa tokoh Bintu Syati ada penafsir perempuan itu istrinya Amin al-kuli jadi dosen sama mahasiswa nikah lagi juga namun aku itu dosennya bintusyati itu mahasisuannya nikah terinspirasi dengan dosen nya jangan jadilah penafsu perembuan nah itu dalam perspektif sastra nanti kalian bisa coba bedah dan eh apa perdalam Nah", "konteks hari ini melihat perkembangan keislaman yang hari ini tentang dibenturkan dengan hermetika mungkin ini masih menjadi pertanyaan tapi secara tradisi keilmuan saya sangat menunggu untuk mewarnai mewarnai perspektif baru mau tidak mau kita harus melihat perspektip baru Kenapa tidak ketika kita go internasional", "tafsir secara internasional, mau tidak mau kita harus memahami perspektif tafsiran Al-Quran dalam seluruh dunia. Dalam artian kontemporer hari ini. Maka dari itu ketika kita punya keinginan memiliki bagaimana keilmuan kita bisa go internasial, kita pun tidak bisa secara mutlak menolak hermenetik. Kita boleh punya asumsi menolakan hermenitik tapi kita harus baca. Kenapa? Agar hal-hal yang kita asumsikan awal juga bersumber dari data tadi.", "Dari hermeneutik dari Bible, keraguan dari Bible. Terus dari filsafat, nanti ada diote. Lalu selai makhar dan segala macam yang memberi jin kepada tafsir Al-Quran. Makanya ketika bicara hermoneutik kalau di perpustakaan atau di rak buku, toko buku jangan sedikit hermaneutik itu di kolom atau rak religi. Biasanya di religi itu kan masuknya ke Bible.", "al-musafat itu banyak muslimnya tentang bicara dengan Alquran dan segala macemnya makanya banyak ketatanan filosofi nah jadi ketika mendobrak hal ini dengan tradisi kita hari ini selayaknya kita lebih bijak dalam mencari ke ilmu mencaryai luna paradigma-paradigma ini harus terus kita gelorkan perspektif", "agar kita tidak gagap, tidak kaget ketika kita berada di posisi, berada dalam konferensi. Kita masih bicara penelitian kita skripsi di forum yang bisa dibilang sempit. Hanya 11 orang yang hadir. Apalagi kalau ada 1 ribu orang, bahkan 5 ribu bagaimana perspektif kita? Apakah kita harus punya perspektip yang satu? Kita pun harus memiliki beberapa perspektiv.", "kita punya wawasan, informasi yang pernah mendapatkan informasi hal ini sehingga kita tahu bahkan perspektif ribuan orang itu pasti berbeda-beda nah tadi kondisinya dengan konteks Indonesia ketika Aminah Wadud perspektiv gender atau bisa dibilang hermetik ke feminis tidak ada salahnya juga karena di Indonesia itu ada perempuannya juga seperti itu dan bahkan misalnya saya melihat", "Saya melihat praktek-praktek bias gender di Indonesia mungkin masih banyak. Apalagi dengan melihat tradisi-tradisi yang memiliki norma-norma yang sudah dilembagakan dan menjadi norma itu sakral. Ketika norma menjadi sakral dan norma dalam bentuk mencari ilmu, ini yang akan menjadi problem hari ini. Mungkin dalam tradisi hadis", "Tradisi hadis, kita belajar ilmu itu harus dapat dari guru siapa. Jelas gurunya siapa, muridnya siapa lalu guru-guru setelahnya siapakah. Jadi keilmuan jelas. Hari ini secara virtual bahkan kita lihat di channel YouTube apakah kita bisa dikategorikan berguru ke Ustadz A atau Guru A? Ini kan menjadi problem baru hari ini.", "bukan bergeser ya minimal disesuaikan dengan konteks zamannya hari ini nah keilmuan pun begitu pun tafsir para tokoh pun sampai hari ini 2021 bahkan sampai dari awalnya Ibn Taymiyyah ketika bicara tafsiri prinsip ilmu itu seperti mozaik kalau kata Julia Christopher mozaic itu adalah puzzle-puzzle yang terpasang atau berupa", "hari ini tentang para dikatafir hari ini tokoh-tokoh yang mengeluarkan tafsir kontemporer hari ini itu adalah kutipan-kutip dari tokoh sebelumnya Ustadz Aceh punya paradigmat Tafsir buat tafsiral Fatiha Ustaz Aceh pun tidak fiyur dari pemikiran Ustadza cengitu usahacem pernah belajar perbaca buku apa dia", "ulama-ulama seperti Ibn Tayyibah pun belajar dan mengutip-mengutip. Maka dari itu ketika mengutif hal itu, sebetulnya secara prinsip paradigma Al-Quran dan tafsir itu tetap pada zamannya. Tetapi dielaborasikan dengan konteks zaman hari ini. Dengan konteks jaman hari ini, maka dari itu seyogianya kita harus lebih bijak tidak gagap ketika melihat berbeda pendapat dan", "Dan menjustifikasi sesuai pada porsinya. Menjustifikasikan kepada porsi-nya. Kadang problem hari ini ketika memincangkan Al-Quran, tafsir itu kita selalu memandang hitam putih. Itu hitam", "mengatakan mana yang benar dan mana yang tidak kita tidak melihat ketika keluar produk tafsir atau penjelasan tafsiri itu dalam memakai sudut pandang apa apakah kita yang menjadi pendakwah lalu menyampaikan ayat dari dakwahnya itu dianggap mufasyir karena saya kalau nostalgia dulu dipesantren dirancabango itu kan ada istilahnya dakwahan dakwuhan oleh santri jadi saya kadang-kadang meluarkan Oh ngotip hadits", "Memutip hadis A. Atau memutip ayat A, lalu saya menjelaskan. Menjelastkan itu ada apakah produk tafsir? Lalu dari mana penjelasan? Ketika sumber aslinya tidak jelas. Apakah itu disebut tafsiran baru? Lagi kadang penjelaasan kita dikonteksikan dengan zaman hari ini. Padahal Asbubun Jurni'a enggak bicara itu. Mau tidak mau, kita sudah mempraktekkan bagaimana konteks hari ini, bagaimanakonteks sosial, kebaruan", "Sebaruan kondisi hari ini. Sehingga penjelasannya sesuai masuk ke itu. Bahkan ketika kita belajar tafsir kitab Ibn Kasir dan segala macam, kadang-kadang kita merubah penjelasan-penjelasan mereka, merubAH penjela- penjelesaI Ibnu Taimiyyah. Kenapa? Contoh, kita memberikan ceramah di kalangan ibu-ibu bahwa tidak mau bahasa kita harus diselaraskan dengan bahasa ibu", "Ibnu Taimah dan Ibnu Kasir di Sakratan, apakah itu dirubah layak atau tidak dengan bahasa ibu-ibu hari ini. Bahkan diganti dengan bahasanya Sunda. Begitupun Ibnu Kasyi dan segala macamnya. Maka dari itu kita pun secara praktik sudah melakukan kebaruan-kebaruan tanpa sadar. Mekadari itu dengan adanya kajian-kajian ini, dengan adalnya sarjana-sarjana Al-Quran lulusannya setiap ini,", "Budaya-budaya kebaruan tentang penjelasan agama dalam hal kitab suci Al-Qur'ah itu coba dimetodologikan. Sehingga keabsahan yang valid bisa dipertanggungjawabkan dan ketika didiskusikan datanya jelas, sumbernya jelas. Mungkin itu saja sedikit dari saya. Terima kasih kepada Mas Liza Fathur Rahman atas tanggapannya yang luar biasa", "Anggapannya yang luar biasa. Mungkin ada waktu ya, silakan kepada Mas Rijal Samsul jika ada yang ingin ditanggapi saya persilahkan Terima kasih juga sebelumnya ini luar biasanya diskusi kita malam kali ini", "berbagai mahasiswa magister ini dari berbagai kampus ya. Ada Mas Rijal, ini dari UNS 9 Kalijaga, Mas Ibu Rahman dari UNN 9 Gunung Jatuh Bandung. Ada mas Ibro, ini iya yang salah tiga. Anhar, alumni pasca dari UNSN 9 Kalija Gajah Jakarta dan sebagainya. Terima kasih diskusi yang luar biasa tapi saya nggak menanggapi ke", "Tapi ke Aminah Wadudnya lah ya. Tadi sudah cukup mendalam lumayan dari Kang Syawki, dari Mas Muntir dan Kang Rizat Turman luar biasa. Namun ada sedikit yang ingin saya tambahkan terkait dengan metodologi penapsiran lah ya atau dalam hal ini satu kerangka untuk kita mempelajari dan memahami Islam sebagai keilmuan kalau tadi kata Anhar gitu ya.", "Artinya bahwa keilmuan atau metodologi itu akan berkembang seiring berkempangnya zaman juga. Misalkan dalam perkembangan ilmu tafsir, dalam konteks misalkan para ulama ataupun perkebangan ilmi hadis, ketika berkeambangnya jaman, itu juga berkebang juga. Jadi perkeimbangan keilmuwan dan perkeumbangan zaman itu pasti berbanding lurus.", "yang berbanding lurus kemudian ketika tadi misalkan ada ketidaksepakatan terkait dengan hermenetik, tadi di prolog sudah saya sampaikan ya di prologo sudah saya Sampaikan bahwa eh terkaih dengan hermene tikka ini masih Pro dan kontra lagi jadi belum semuanya bisa menerima itu tapi enggak juga semuanyaitu menolaknya mungkin terkair ketika Tadi misalkannya ketika Mas Ibro mengutip perkataan Pak Adi Anwisaini", "mundir mengutip banyak perkataan Pak Syahiron. Kalau saya melihat background dari kedua tokoh sendekiawan ini, kalau dalam paradigma keilmuan ini karena memang berangkat dari dua paradigma yang berbeda. Kalau misalkan sejauh pemahaman saya ketika Pak Adi Anusa ini yang memiliki paradigma", "Pak Sairon ini berkiblatnya ke, katakanlah Pak Amin Abdullah gitu kan dengan teorinya integrasi interkoneksi. Nah ini sebagai antitesis kurang lebihnya ketika misalkan teori atau paradigma keilmuan Islamisasi ilmu dari propa latas yang menempatkan Islam itu sebagai subjek kajian, nah kemudian melihat ilmu-ilmu yang lain seperti sosiologi, antropologi", "biologi-bisiologi biologik dan lain sebagainya itu sebagai apa objek kajian Nah maka ilmu-ilmu ini ilmu ini dilihat dari perspektif agama Islam seperti itulah nah kemudian ketika Pak Amin Abdullah melahirkan satu teori yang disebut dengan integrasi interkoneksi nah ini adalah arti tesisnya Bagaimana menurut Pak Amien abdulillah ini dia", "dijadikan sebagai apa objek kajian nah justru keilmuan humaniora dan sebagainya ini dijadikannya sebagai subjek kaji yang artinya Bagaimana Islam dilihat dari perspektif sosiologi antropologi biologi dan lain sebaganya ini namun Apakah ini bisa dinafikan saja tidak bisa karena dalam perkembangkan akademik tentu perkebangan teori", "hal yang sangat wajar antara pro dan kontra, dll. Karena ini dalam konteks kajian akademik. Kemudian ketika berbicara hermenetik, misalnya ini adalah bagian kecil atau salah satu dari metodologi penapsiran. Metodolog penapsilan karena sejauh pemohonan saya bahwa tidak akan ada satu teori, tidak akan Ada satu metodology, tidak kan ada satu pendekatan yang bisa mengkaji Islam secara konferensif gitu", "Jadi kita bisa memahami Islam secara konferensi, menjadi satu pemahaman yang holistik, integral dan universal ketika kita menggunakan berbagai perspektif. Misalkan ketika tadi Al-Quran ini dikaji menurut Harman Atika seperti ini. Seperti ini kesimpulannya. Menurut para ulama seperti ini dan sebagainya. Nanti ketika berbicara keilmuan dalam dunia akademik,", "standar validitasnya bagaimana. Ketika tafsir juga dikaji, ketika ayat Al-Quran dikajikan dengan tafsiran misalkan katakan tadi para ulama ini tentu menggunakan satu standar validitas juga. Kemudian tadi ketika Kang Rija menyampaikan bahwa ketika kita berbicara tentang satu teori atau satu pemikiran tokoh, nah kita tidak bisa menafikan hal-hal di belakangnya, bagaimanapun sosio-kulturalnya terbelakangan", "Latar belakang pendidikan, latar belakan keluarga, lataran belakangan ekonomi, latara belakan sosial, lataram belakanga politik yang memberikan pengaruh terhadap lahirnya teori itu. Saya kira para ulama menciptakan satu rumusan pun tidak akan jauh berbeda. Misalkan tadi kata Kang Abdurrahman disampaikan misalkan 15 karakteristik mufasir oleh Asyuti, tentu kita harus juga bisa melihat bagaimana kondisi sosialnya", "kondisi sosialnya, bagaimana kondisinya politiknya, kondi siapa latar belakang keluarga, latarbelakang pendidikan sehingga Imam Asuyuti ini itu kan bisa melahirkan 15 karakteristik tentang mufassir atau seorang yang dikategorikan sebagai seorang mufasir. Kan seperti itu. Nah jadi dalam kajian akademik dan keilmuan saya kira ini hal yang wajar ketika terjadi perbedaan pendapat antara pro dan kontra tentang satu objek", "yang pasti bahwa seiring berkembangnya waktu, maka keilmuan, teori dan lain sebagainya ini akan terus berkemangan. Kita tidak bisa mencegah hal itu. Kalau tadi dikatakan oleh Mas Menteri, kita juga tidak bisa menjadikan satu patokan, satu patukan teori untuk dibawa ke masa atau zaman yang berbeda. Tadi disampaikan bahwa ketika misalkan kebenaran Al-Qurannya itu sudah pasti.", "pasti, kebenaran Al-Qurnan sudah pasti. Tapi pembacaan tentang Al-Quarnan itu akan disesuaikan dengan bagaimana kondisi sosial tersebut. Kalau misalkan di UIN Bandung ini kalau tidak salah ya Kang Abdurrahman, misalkAN dalam kajian hadis misalkAn Prof Anton kita sebut ada apa studi hadis kawasan kemudian Prof siapa lagi UIN bandung kalau tidak masalah ada apa Studi pikih kawasannya dan lain sebagainya", "dan lain sebagainya. Misalkan contohnya seperti ini, kenapa ya madhab syafi'iyah itu tersebar banyak di Asia Tenggara? Kemudian Hanbali kenapa di Arab Saudi, Maliki kenapa dia Afrika, dan lain-lain sebagai. Secara geografis ternyata ini berpengaruh misalkan, contoh gini, dapat syafikinya banyak di Asia Tenggarak karena ketika contoh kesimpulan pikirnya misalka ketika wudhu", "Udu yang tiga kali, misalkan itu kan untuk di daerah yang memang banyak air. Asiatanggara jumlah airnya banyak, makanya memberikan pengaruh terhadap pikir dan sebagainya. Artinya yang ingin saya sampaikan bahwa satu produk hukum, satu produk pikir,", "penerapan satu hukum, satu teori dan sebagainya itu tidak bisa kita lepaskan dari latar belakang sosial, dari latara belakangan sosiologi, lataran belakanga antropologi dan lain sebagai. Sehingga kita tidak bisa menjeneralisi seluruh keadaan dengan satu kacamata. Jadi kita tidak melihat satu objek dengan satu Kacamata Nah iya betul Anhar kalau paradigma keilmuan di UIN Jogja kan apa integrasi interkoneksi", "koneksi, kalau UIN Bandung kan Wahyu Memandu Ibu dan sebagainya. Nah tapi kan intinya bahwa setiap kampus ini memiliki satu paradigma keilmuan yang kita tidak bisa saling menyalahkan dan lain sebaganya. Tadi saya sangat sepakat dengan yang disampaikan oleh A'anhar, kita bedakan antara misalkan Islam sebagai ilmu dan Islam sebagai ajadan teologi. Karena ketika berbicara teologis ini akan sangat selesai. Sebelum ditutup, yang ingin saya sampaikan terakhir adalah", "adalah berkaitan dengan kajian keilmuan. Ini tentu harus terus digalakan, untuk kalau bahasa Pak Rudin Pais itu, untuk menambah wawasan dan memperluas semesta pemikiran kita, sehingga kita bisa melihat sesuatu itu lebih jauh, sesuato itu dari perspektif yang luas, saya analogikan seperti ini. Ketika misalkan saya berhadapan", "berhadapan dengan Kang Syawuki misalkan. Saya berhadapkan dengan Kang syawki ketika saya hanya melihat dari perspektif depan saja maka saya sangat boleh menyampaikan bahwa syawqi itu adalah sebagai seseorang yang tidak punya kepala bagian belakang misalnya kan. Saya sampaikan, Kang Sywaki seorang yang tak punya kepalan bagian Belakang kenapa? karena saya hanya Melihakin dari depan aja gitu hanya satu perspektip saja", "Tentu saja ketika kita bisa melihat dari berbagai perspektif, tentu kita akan mendapatkan satu pemahaman yang holistik, yang integral, yang universal. Terima kasih juga untuk ilmunya malam kali ini Kang Syawki, Kang Rijal Patur Rahman, Kang Anhar, Kang Ibrahim, Kang Waduh Rahman teh Karina, Mas Muntir dan lain sebagainya yang ikut memberikan informasi baru bagi kita semua di malam hari ini walaupun hanya 11 orang", "pun hanya 11 orang, ini luar biasa sekali. Hampir 3 jam kita diskusi di malam kali ini. Itu saja. Terima kasih. Wassalamualaikum warahmatullahi wabarakatuh. Ya mungkin karena waktu sebentar lagi sudah 15 menit lagi menuju setengah sebelas dan akan kita tutup untuk diskusi kali ini silakan mungkin ada terakhir closing statement dari Mas Sauki ya silakan", "Silakan. Terima kasih kepada moderator untuk closing statement mungkin ucapan terima kasih", "pasti banyak atas masukan-masukannya dikembalikan lagi kepada ibu. Oke Mas, semangat ya mau dikempankan lagi di ASAP Nugget Journal juga bagus. Tapi kalau mau berhenti disitu juga tidak berguna. Mau di-upload bisa dipublis jadi kembangan lagi sesuai analisis yang saya tawarkan tadi. Kalau mau nulis berdua sama saya nanti yang nulisan analisis saya juga enggak apa-apa.", "Hai bercanda langsung gas g-touch Oke langsung nanti kolab sama Mas Muntir hehehe Nanti biar diurnalnya bareng publis maspondir siap-siap mata pokoknya untuk public follow up langsung Oh terima kasih untuk seluruh penanggap luar biasa kita sudah menghabiskan waktu hampir tiga jam untuk diskusi kali ini mungkin", "Mohon maaf apabila dalam pembawaan acara ini banyak sekali kesalahan. Insya Allah akan dilanjut lagi dengan minggu berikutnya ya, Rizal. Insha Allah akan dibahas tentang bedah skripsi dari saudari saya, teman saya, tentang semantik yang akan dibAHAS nanti di minggul depan, di ahad depan. Mungkin itu saja yang bisa disampaikan untuk malam ini.", "Terima kasih kepada seluruhnya. Mohon maaf, saya tutup saja dengan doa. Assalamualaikum warahmatullahi wabarakatuh.", "aku udah saranin Mas itu aku udah sering shauky pokoknya nanti S2 kita di Yogyakarta dia antas di Jogja Oke digecek hahaha mantap apa kata-kata siap Insyaallah eh Kak Wien Jogjak pasti tak kita oke terjemah anti butaq 7 jam ah hahaha banyak fasilitator kalau di Joga hanya buat mulai sebatis gede", "nanti langsung follow-up komunikasi aja saya izin lift dulu ya Mas Makasih ya saya live ya" ]
amina_wadud/CAIS Lecture Series - Prof_ Amina Wadud_Moderated _SIO2huXd1d4&pp=ygURQW1pbmEgV2FkdWQgaXNsYW0%3D_1742920791.opus	[ "hello everybody i'd like to welcome you all uh to our annual", "a new lecture series with Professor Amin Wadud today and we have a few minutes still to begin. And at this point I'll just give you a brief introduction about the Council for Arabic and Islamic Studies. My name is Souad Ali, I am the founding chair of the ACO council for Arabic Islamic studies. I'm also director of Arabic studies, the Arabic studies program", "Middle Eastern Studies at the School of International Arts and Culture, the college. I would like to ask you all please to mute yourselves and then after Dr Wadud gives her speech we can open it for questions and answers. Please mute yourself thank you very much so uh at this point i just wanted to give you a brief um a brief introduction", "brief introduction to the Council for Arabic and Islamic Studies. So reflecting on the rich diversity of both Arabic studies and Islamic studies, the interdisciplinary program of the council integrates the study of and research in Arabic", "such as the Middle East, including the Arab world, Turkey and Iran, as well as Islamic studies in regions beyond the Middle east. And Africa and countries such as Indonesia, Pakistan, Bangladesh and other Muslim majority countries. The program promotes the teaching of Arabic Persian Turkish, as", "in collaboration with the study of sociology, history, politics, anthropology and religion. So our mission is that the Council for Arabic and Islamic Studies was established at Arizona State University to acknowledge the significant contributions of Arabic studies and Islamic civilization and cultures to the world at large both historically and in the modern age", "modern age the council's research and teaching programs seek to promote multiculturalism diversity interfaith dialogue cross-cultural understanding and the expansion of human civilization and cultures through arabic as well as other middle eastern languages", "is often conceived as a cultural tool towards greater human understanding the more we study others literary arts cultures and civilizations the better enabled will become to achieve understanding and to work for world peace hopefully and so at this point um as i welcome all of you and those who joined a little bit late would like to welcome our keynote speaker", "I'm honored today to have Professor Amin Odut, the world renowned scholar and I'd like to introduce her before we begin this lecture. Very distinguished lecturer.", "is a world renowned scholar and activist with a focus on Islam, justice, gender and sexuality. After achieving full professor she retired from US academia except as visiting researcher to start King School for the ministry in California United States after 15 years in retirement she has recently", "yourself thank you so much after 15 years in retirement she has recently returned to academia as a visiting professor to the national islamic university in jakarta indonesia where she's you know speaking to us today from indonesian and we truly appreciate that it's very early morning in there she migrated to indonesIA in 2018", "Author of The Crown and Woman, Rereading the Sacred from a Woman's Perspective. A classic that helped towards the development of etymology and methodology in Islamic feminism which is the most dynamic aspect of Islamic reform today. It is three decades old and translated over ten times, most recently into French.", "had women's reform in islam moved the discussion further by sign aligning with a mandate for ethics and activism in collaboration with scholarship and spirituality after completing a three-year research grant investigating 500 years of Islamic classical discourse on sexual diversity", "organizing an international center for queer islamic studies and theology the very first of its kind in the world professor amina udud is a mother or five children and a nana to six and she is best known as the lady imam as you know the controversy when she led prayer previously but at this point i'd like", "and then give her the floor. The title of our speech today is Half a Century of Islam and Feminism, and Dr. Radoud argues that in the past five decades, the face of Islam has changed comprehensively across the globe. Matters concerning gender equality and Islam as practice have been subjected to discourse over gender. What is unique about this last half century, she said,", "the rate of women and women identified participation and self-representation in these discourses she strongly argues that the muslim women's movement is strong ongoing and deeply self introspective it has taken authority through its knowledge production and paradigm shifting radical mostly inclusive and intersectional scholarship and activism gender reform is by far the most", "Dr. Radul, we are honored to have you and the floor is all yours now.", "is also a bridge maker and I appreciate this opportunity. Before we started, she reminded me the last time that I spoke at ASU was in 2013 so it is nice to have an opportunity every decade why not? So you know I have spoken on this topic Islam and feminism and written about it extensively over", "that i'm asked i have this mixed feeling and one is like oh you know it's just so boring i'm just going to say the same things over and over again inshallah hopefully to a new audience um but the other thing that i always try to challenge myself is to find a new angle on the conversation um and what i'm gonna do this time and i hope it works is rather than to read through you know copy of another paper or Wikipedia entry or article or blog or whatever", "blog or whatever i have something you know for notes but i really kind of want to talk us through um you know five or six main points so i have my trusty timer i will not go over don't worry um but i want to focus a little bit on why i said half a century and this is by way of my own personal location", "year for the publication of my first book, Quran and Woman. And 50 years as a Muslim by choice. 50 years! As a Muslim, by choice all of them my adult years I became Muslim as an adult. And you know sometimes when you're a little kid you think to yourself oh what do i want to be when i grow up? You know and then if you think about it at different points in your life", "yourself or where you want to go, or by looking at the things that you see are necessary and beautiful in world that you can contribute. And so you develop your capacity to do that. In my case I just want to say how I've used this year actually I started last year because that's the nature of the beast but I've use this year to reflect on what it was like as a 20-year old to walk into the door of Islam", "And, you know I never even intended to take the Shahada. I went to a mosque because I had been reading about Islam and I've been interested in the men that were there because I was also covering maybe not in this particular form or fashion but you know it was looking more modest it would have been part of my own growth as a black woman in America particularly to dress more modestly in public spaces and they're like oh if you believe there's no God but Allah", "but Allah and Muhammad is his prophet, you should just take shahada. It was Thanksgiving day 1972 um and you know even though I took the Shahada i didn't make a lifetime dedication at that time what happened instead is that about four or five months later someone gifted me a copy of the Quran now in my estimation this should have come with the Shahadah", "you don't know right um but i had gone to my university library i was undergraduate and started reading books about islam anything or you know i had no had no direction you know but i did have a good library resource and i had not been pointed to the quran i mean allah is merciful actually because literally once i started reading the qur'an in english only", "translator whose work I cannot abide by is just too sexist, too racist, too homophobic. Nevertheless, I fell in love. I fell with the Qur'an and it was at that time that I truly began to deepen my entry into Islam from the level of the heart and mind combination. And then I dedicated the rest of my life not only to study of the Qur-an but to participation", "participation and what we call the production of knowledge in Islam, which I will come back to through understanding that text as the central gift that Allah gave to the Prophet upon him be peace to direct and guide all of humanity. All of us on the planet. This was such a beautiful gift. And not only was it a beautiful", "humanity it was a gift that allah gave to me personally that sparked a love that now 50 years later is still going strong and i think that that's that's a gift not a lot of people can say that you look back on your life 50 years and in that i mean i'm 70 but i'm only looking at the 50 years of islam and in", "learning from the Quran and still exchanging possibilities of meaning. And, you know, I couldn't have scripted a better life for me than that sort of accidental tourist title, sort of the accidental Muslim because on that day in Thanksgiving, I did not look out at 50 years ahead of me but now I'm looking back at 50", "not interested in hearing about me and all my love and everything for our particular topic on islam and feminism i decided to locate my comments within the rubric of literally a half a century what has happened in that half a", "as i said help with the production of new knowledge surrounding now in order to understand where I'm going to go with this you need to understand that there is an epistemology at stake here and that epistemolgy has been central to the transformative development that I will be talking about two key words obviously there's only the word n in between", "between Islam and feminism. We're going to have to unpack those words because they are not static, they are stagnant, they have evolved, they've been challenged. I want to start with Islam because just like other keywords that have something to do with history, metaphysics, politics, art, spirituality", "and the like social justice for example um no one uses the word exactly the same way as their neighbor i think about that book shadab's book on you know what is islam it's like 600 pages 600 pages so that that book itself demonstrates that it is not a one-time conversation", "upon by everyone. And in our time, within the last decade and a half, the entry of Daesh or the so-called Islamic State violent intrusion into the lives of other Muslims as well as non-Muslims have alerted us to the fact that just because someone uses", "that they're using it in exactly the same way. So we have to, as I said, we have unpack it. In my case, I am particularly interested obviously in spirituality but I'm also interested in Islam as a system. A system that is built upon the primary sources of the text or Quran and revelation and the prophetic traditions", "by prophetic traditions I mean not only his statements but his behavior and what we call the sunnah, as well as what has developed from these two primary sources by way of ethics, philosophy, mysticism, art, politics, economics, spirituality, and the like. And these disciplines are secondary sources to what we called Islam", "Islam and they are all 100% constructed by human beings. There's a beauty in this, but there is also a challenge. And one of the challenges is that around about the time of the Abbasid dynasty, the tremendous strides and rights of women that were laid down", "had begun to recede and the legacy that was bequeathed to us in the future of Islam, was primarily written by men from men's perspective. From their scholarship, from their spirituality it's not like I'm trying to say that this is a negative but there is a consequence of presuming only the male subject as the center", "that it sometimes excludes us women not only does it exclude us but also it shapes what is our role in accordance to what is seen as primary from the perspective of men's experiences with Islam, with Allah through the Prophet sallallaahu alaihi wasallam in their construction of Islam and so we become", "striving to achieve the excellence of their Islam. And yet, those primary sources confirmed that we were free and equal from the moment that we thought in the mind of our Creator Allah. We and men were equally a part of the design. In Nija'a-e-Ranfirat al Khalifa came to us", "it came to us with an affirmation that we have created this two pair in other words there is a dynamic and necessary relationship between male and female and it is reflected in the terms masculine feminine which i hope i will have a chance to get to because i am not simply talking about uh women as um some kind of heteronormative", "of heteronormative exclusive binary. But the idea of the sacred relationship between masculine and feminine, al-jalal wal jamal, got lost when this predilection towards men, men's ways of being, men s ways of knowing, men ts ways of striving towards Allah became central which of course it should for men but it should not for both men and women equally unless", "in fact, truly universal. So instead what we lost beginning around the Abbasid period was the dynamic interplay between women and men as partners in the journey towards Allah. The vehicle of this loss we now identify as patriarchy. Now patriarchy is not limited to Islam it's not Islamic", "origin. It existed before Islam, it still exists although hopefully we will see the end of it very soon but the understanding of it is that it privileges men in the context of our discourse over humanity and this privileging fell through a kind of Hellenistic construct that whenever two come together one of them has to be above the other", "And this led to a distinction in the Hellenistic period, it was a distinction between citizen and non-citizen. In Islam, it wasn't a distinction of being Muslim or non-Muslim but also a distinction male and female and a distinction free and slave. So in fact patriarchy is the origins of an institution that we now know is abhorrent and that is slavery.", "slavery. Slavery allows for two human beings to come together and one of them to be in service to the other, and that other becomes master. A construct of justice that relies upon these unequal locations was one where justice could only be achieved if each were given their due in their location. In the 20th century we came to understand", "that no, you can't put any human, any genre of human beings in the sub category of human being and erase gender religion language group ethnicity geographical location. You cannot put another human being in a position below a human being, and still call that justice. And that was the origins of the modern human rights debate. And for me, that was also the origins", "The Tawhidic paradigm is built upon the fundamental understanding of tawhid, which is indispensable with Islam. It expresses not only that Allah is one but also that Allah", "between all beings because only Allah can be above. All of us then come to each other only on a horizontal line of reciprocity if we believe in that sacred divine being as being ultimate, subhanahu, you know, supreme and all-powerful, all-seeing, all knowing, all loving. If we believe", "of us can only meet on the line of horizontal reciprocity. And that's called Musawa, and I coined an understanding of the Talkeedic paradigm while working on issues of gender and social justice.", "of all people, and particularly in the context of the development of all forms of Islamic law which today is pretty much limited to the practice of personal status law. Let me say a little bit about this personal status", "really the very first movement of the prophet in society, that Islam was a way of life. And establishing that way of you could say became prophetic mission and he had to establish it in his context, in this time and in accordance to the strengths and the necessities and the challenges of his time with which I personally think he did pretty good job so that's not even the question.", "when the Prophet sallallahu alayhi wa sallam returns to Allah and that legacy is left with us humans from the companions to the next generation, et cetera, et how do we then sustain this living system? And that became the subject of discourse and debate for the next hundreds of years.", "as we know, grew the major schools of Islamic law. And yet, the fact that there even today still exists four major Sunni orientations and at least one or two major Shia orientations lets you know that there was always a diversity and that diversity was part of the dynamism of the system.", "intellectual and political, and in fact spiritual exchange was again how do we live Islam. Now there's some aspects about how we live this long if you're a woman especially if you are reproducing woman right. There's some aspect about that experience which could not be categorized as easily by simply referring to the prophetic Sunnah. The Prophet never had menstruation he never delivered baby through his body", "He never nursed a child. And all of these things are important and how those things come about, that is the whole nature of reproduction, the nature of intimate relationships between women and men. All of that is also encoded in the law. And yet for the most part, the representation of women in how we understand those things,", "representation of men for their own understanding of it. Case in point, most schools of law respond to the offense of rape by saying justice will be served when the rapist marries the rape victim. Who could think something like that except for somebody who is not themselves the one", "There's a reduction of woman to her reproductive organs that does not consider that there's more to us than that. That we know for sure if you're reading through the Quran and looking at the legacy of the prophet, but there is a logic that's given there and that logic is the reduction of women's reproductive capacity as something extremely valuable, something that should be protected and there are so many ways in which that's encoded in the law", "that is the just solution, it's a sort of gross example about how it is necessary for women to represent themselves in the way in which justice is conceived and justice is in fact experienced. And this is the kind of work that was done that leads me to accept, which has only been, let's see, this is 1922,", "in 13 years to accept the term feminism. So let's look a little bit at feminism and then I want to once again, look at how the two things work together. Feminism is also not static. Of course there were universal or let's just say regional movements where women asserted their understanding of", "of their own being, how much legacy this would get at the public realm has fluctuated throughout history. And from these self-assertions and self-identifications and self representations came a movement. And this movement has not been uniformed it has not", "and deeds provided by the context of time in place. So before there was Islamic feminism, there were Muslims who were feminists and they pretty much borrowed from the feminist models that were given by other cultures because the goal of making an affirmation of women's ways of knowing,", "women's ways of producing knowledge, women's subjectivities in epistemologies, women roles in society and culture. Muslim women were not the first ones to do this even though as you know our legacy at the beginning of Islam was one of the strongest pro-women legacies that came from that far back in history. As I said we kind of lost momentum around the Abbasid period so now", "you know, roughly 200 years. So when Muslim women made claims to their own ways of knowing and their agency in their representation, they also followed the legacies of feminism that sorry I live in Indonesia and the mosquitoes are my friend. No, they're not. So the journey for Muslim and feminism", "other places in the world and yet the architects of the first feminisms they centered their own location. And so there was a period of time where feminism was very white, very middle class, very western and in some cases also very secular to the point of being anti-religious. So when I became Muslim", "at the same time that women's studies and gender studies was picking up in certain university contexts, I didn't feel that this movement was speaking to me as a Black woman. And then as I become Muslim, I definitely did not feel myself aligned with it. And in fact, for, you know, the next 20-30 years, I actually was very critical of feminism for all the reasons that I think is legitimate to make criticism.", "about location that it's not at all universal and yet it pretends to be speaking universally for all women. And, all of a sudden I wasn't alone there were other voices that began to critique feminism in western context and even within feminist circles. And in the last decade we saw the birth and coherence of what is called intersectionality", "you know, is never complete, is to understand that when people come to the table of the discourse over gender equality, women's rights and representation, they don't all come from the same location. And all of those locations need to be taken into consideration if we have as our goal a justice, equality and dignity for women. That intersectionality,", "as I had a very interesting experience, which was in 1995 at the Beijing World Conference for Women where there were more representation from Muslim women than had been any of the previous conferences global conferences on women. And when the women said oh you know what we have this opportunity we're all in the same location in China why don't we form our own caucus they spent a lot of time arguing with each other", "And the main crux of the argument was from two what I call dominant voices at that time. One voice was what I now identify as secular Muslim feminism, because there's some people who believe that you cannot have human rights discourses with any notion of religion within it and they're Muslims who believe", "of human rights and women to go forward without consideration um of religion. And the other dominant voice was what we now understand as political Islam or the Islamist voice, and the Islamists voice said there is no system that could be better than Islam so we don't need human rights from any western instruments or the United Nations or anything. Now these two voices agreed on one thing you cannot have both", "both Islam and feminism. And that brings me back to this thing about epistemology, how were they defining Islam? Whose definition were they using? And how were the defining feminism and whose definition was given dominance because this was 1995 it inspired at the time I was a representative for", "for a pro-faith and pro-feminist Muslim women's organization called Sisters in Islam. And it inspired us to go back to the drawing board, and become a little bit more coherent why it was that we were not in either camp. The secular Muslim feminists always called us Islamist, and the Islamist feminists", "you know, why intersectionality is so important. What do you do when you're in that middle space? And what you do, when you are in that little spaces, you have to start to self advocate, to self define and we did this by using what is now fundamental to the understanding of development of Islamic feminism. And that is first I think I would say first is epistemology. First,", "sacred text to give a critical reading that was inclusive of gender as a category of thought. Yes, gender always operates in society. Yes. Gender is the background of any discussion where the two genders might come in but to use it as a rubric of critical analysis was a new development that started sometime", "and early 1990s. And that is where my first book, I think sort of came to the fore because I had intuitively again, I was not only not feminist but I decried the label feminist. I had intuitively understood that for me to understand the Quran remember in the story that I told you from the beginning, I came at the Quran from another religious context as a convert.", "that through study. From that study, I developed research and scholarship and contributed to the discourses over understanding of Quran for all times, all places, and all people which meant that it was also for me a Black girl born in Maryland so understanding the Quran from a gender lens for me was not motivated by feminism", "I can admit when I look back now, how much it was a part of this half a century of development. So the first part of Islamic feminism was in fact research scholarship epistemology hermeneutics challenging the intellectual legacies to understand the ways in which gender had operated and that binary which was hegemonic unpacking", "perspective on gender was equally available but had not been developed to the same extent that we see was necessary in order for women's agency to be reaffirmed in the way in which it was intended if you look at the Quran as sacred text. We were part of the divine design, you know, menzel jane, male female,", "because I am working on that as well. But the understanding that we had this agency given to us in our creation by Allah, has not been sustained through the history of patriarchy. So after 1995, I think groups like Sisters and Islam networked with other groups at other parts of the Muslim world where Muslim personal status law was an implementation", "the idea behind Muslim personal status law was again how do we live Islam and particularly, how do you live Islam with regard to family. So sometimes it's also called family law and yet through the colonial legacy an interesting thing happened. The colonizers decided that it was expedient not to overturn every aspect of the", "uh you call them the the local laws and customs, and they relinquish personal status law to the groups on the ground. And I say this because we think about a place like India there were Hindus, there were Muslims, and yet Muslim personal status laws developed there because of such a sizable population. And because this area of law was left it then had", "create a system where it could be aligned with the way in which the colonizers were doing the rest of their politics. And in that process, personal status law became very rigid and patriarchy became fixed and permanent. You could not unpack women's location in society if you went through this personal", "without coming away with the notion that women were secondary citizens, women were subject to men. They must obey men and was provide sex for men whenever men wanted as long as it's not Ramadan and they don't have their menstruation. I mean you think that this was somehow that this handed down by a law to the prophet and that the profit handed it down to us instead of understanding that these were constructs that were developed to help us understand how to live is like", "to live Islam, but they were done from the perspective of male experiences. So when these laws became codified at the level of the nation state it became very difficult to unpack the extent to which this was a reading of Islam. This was not the only reading of the Islam and that was the territory of Islamic feminism", "critical reading into the ways in which we understand gender and gender relationships in society, and in the law to return to the affirmation of the equality and reciprocity between women and men. So once we sort of clarified that you know Islam was a construct and feminism is a construct", "in our own construction. And I want to say something in a very specific way about what this means, because sometimes it sounds a little bit abstract and you know, I'm having such a good time with that. I expect everybody to have a good too, but maybe not okay? One of the ways in which is done, I just wanna kind of clarify is the inclusion of what we call lived reality as part of the methodology in legal reform.", "Now, looking at the ways in which I try to give sort of a general overview of development of Islamic thought, Islamic law and then a little bit with regard to feminism and moving into the modern period. Let's go from where we are present. From Sisters of Islam, a global network called Musawah was constructed", "constructed and the purpose of Musawah is to unpack the ways in which Muslim personal status law is constructed but also to construct it in such a way that it once again affirms that talqidic location of gender equality reciprocity and human dignity. And one of the methods that was used was to re-center women's lived realities", "And it's really simple. In Islamic law, if you're trying to understand new say medical technology before a jurist amongst the fuqaha, before a juris can make a decision relative to the methodologies and ijtihad of their particular method or school of law they need to understand what is this medical procedure? And to do that they refer to the experts in medicine", "in medicine. In order to understand how to apply Islamic law, especially personal status law, to the highest ideal of Islam which is justice and human dignity with regard to women then women's lives have to be centered in the way in which we communicate what these things mean that's why", "gave early on break is so easy to confirm. Who's experiencing this and how is that experience shaped relative to different gender locations? So using lived reality as a rubric of understanding, and you know, this is done in a very precise way. So", "This was done in such a way that we provided ongoing discourse about reform using the Tauhidic paradigm and establishing the authority of women's own voices and live realities, in order to critically engage gender in all aspects of reform. And in all aspect of interpretation.", "Excuse me. Now, I have three minutes so keep my eye on the clock and so I just want to say something about what is a what i'm currently experiencing as a challenge that still needs to be faced with regard to Islam and gender discourse. And that is that gender identity is not limited to the you know cis male and female binary", "that has become encoded even in the work of some Muslim feminists. And instead, we need to understand that gender and sexual identities are on a spectrum. And we need be comprehensive about the extent to which when we say something with regard to gender, we are perhaps speaking from a kind of strict binary location and not inclusive of the spectrum that really exists.", "In this regard, I think that the movement of Islamic feminism still needs to have a comprehensive encounter with notions of queer Islam and how they impact on live realities of people whose representation does not fit into the strict binaries. And that's the kind of work that I had been also trying to participate in.", "another conversation which I don't have the minutes to get into. By the way, you can go still we still have until eight o'clock so you can maybe 10 minutes? Okay. All right. I will take that ten minutes since it is there. Let me say a little bit about how this developed because I've also given some hints. About two years ago, I became really interested in The Divine Feminine, Jijamal and", "And I used it as a part of our conversation, again unity and reciprocity alongside the divine or sacred masculine, the Jalal. But historically what you see is that greater amount of attention has been given to the divine masculine and as such it has eclipsed what I call the Talhidic balance with the feminine.", "I began to work on sort of reclaiming the divine feminine. And I have different things that I do on social media, you know with regard to it but it allowed me to sort of unpack the reality of even how the Quran uses for example, the terms zakar wa unta we take the word zakar to mean male and we take", "female but actually it's an articulation of masculine and feminine and masculine and is not exclusive to any one body every body and i mean in the physical sense every body must have masculine attributes in order to get things done because masculine is a metaphysical expression", "of activity. Feminine is a metaphysical expression of receptivity. We must also be receptive because Allah is the power of the universe that we all wish to receive in order", "an intimate relationship between masculine and feminine within our single bodies. And it is a mirror of the reality of the sacred masculine and the sacred feminine of Allah. Allah has feminine attributes, Allah has masculine attributes, and yet Allah transcends gender. Allah is not male, Allah is female. So when I began working on my research with regard to sexual diversity,", "all human dignity because that is the unconditional terms of human creation in the Quran. So karama is an indivisible feature of what it means to be human, every human deserves dignity which is why institutions like slavery definitely cannot say to be confirmed by the Quran's participation even", "about existing institutions of slavery, and at the same time recognizing how complex is the human being. The idea of restricting us to not include the inherent dynamism within our own single bodies is best used as an instrument to help us understand", "to be affirmed, again using their lived realities and self-representation, to be affirm as part of the aspect of the natural aspects of diversity. Humans are diverse. Two twins identical twins they're still not exactly the same right? So humans are diverse and part of our diversity is the ways in which we inculcate", "and in our own natures. I mean, I thought this was really interesting for me because I realized that intellectually, I am very, very masculine. I'm very, assertive about understanding things and about bringing that understanding to others. Very, very, masculine but I'm kind of feminine identified as far as my personality. And I used to get into...", "And I couldn't understand why they would get so aggressive. And I realized that I am, in fact very aggressive with my ideas, with my thoughts, with the developments of my research and various assertive on you know, and so I had to also reconcile masculine feminine within my own being in order to achieve what I call sort of the Tao he did a mentor psychological states that are instrumental in building my best spiritual state", "agent before Allah. So some of the understanding of what we need to move forward in terms of Islam and feminism is that we do not have a monolith understanding of it means to be female, and I feel that the women's organizations and groups who have worked on gender issues over the past several decades feel they have a lot at stake", "in maintaining the headway that they have created by then becoming themselves participants in a system that is a little bit biased towards the heteronormative binary. So I am presenting that as a challenge to Islamic feminism in the way forward, but at the same time what I mostly wanted to share with you was a glimpse at how Islamic feminism was a dynamic development", "of the Islamic world. And I think that's a very important part of this, and it is also an economic development that benefited from reform movements in Islam, but also benefited from internal critiques that were given within the discourses and epistemology of feminism. So with that i think i will say thank you very much. Thank you very", "I would like to thank the audience for coming here, my students and faculty members. Thank you very much indeed for coming. I would now like to open it up for discussion. If anybody has any questions please show a show of hands. Raise your hand so that they see who is going to speak first.", "Then unmute yourself, please. So any questions? Any comments? Now my students in the my class, the Koran Texan women many of them are here today. They begin the course usually this is a class that I have been teaching since 2007 and I begin with your book Koran woman rereading the sacred from a woman's perspective then after you we they read", "they read Niamat Barzanji, Grand Woman and New Reading. And then we're doing now Ingrid Madsen and her interviews, and then we go to Asma Barlas and so on. So after they finish Barzanjee there is a session the whole week of comparing you and Barzanje. So it's a very interesting session. So I have some of them who are here today if they have anything that they would like to share or any questions that they have or anybody else", "There are students from other classes as well. And then some of my colleagues as well, so please go ahead if you have any question or a comment. Now somebody is posing a question on text. Okay, go ahead Ali.", "I was really like inspired by your speech today. I had a question about something you said. Can you introduce yourself please? Thank you. Hi, my name is Ali. I am a student of yours. I took this class because i really wanted to know more about Islam and how it affected women", "where I really want to see more out of my religion for my family and for my siblings, and my mother, my sister. So I wanted to expand on that. Okay. But I want to ask a question regarding how it took you 13 years to fully accept the term feminism? And I want-I want to know more if it was just because of the secular and Islamist state", "of voices or if there was other aspects that you didn't really, you know like relate to at the time. Okay I'm just going to make a small correction. I have only been feminist for 13 years it took me therefore uh i would say that leaves 46 years sorry sorry about that no no worries that this thing is kind of funny um", "And in that time, as I mentioned, I was privy to some of the discourses in the U.S. As a black woman from a very poor family and the discoursess you know, in those days was not universal it was not inclusive, it was intersectional there were challenges that would be presented especially by black women", "black women. And it took some time before those challenges were integrated and so I did not feel that feminism represented me, and as I immersed myself in my Islamic experiences living in Muslim cultures across Asia and Africa the dominant discourse about feminism was really far-fetched for what we", "what we were experiencing. And then the dominant discourses about feminism became itself a tool for the interrogation and humiliation of Islam and Muslims, you know like Laura Bush saying we're going to free those Afghan women from Islam and look what the result is even in the past recent years with withdrawal of troops from Afghanistan. So", "that feminism is intersectional was not a part of my early introduction to feminism and as such, therefore it made it not only irrelevant but sometimes problematic. There was in my entire dedication to issues of social justice and human dignity there's always been an emphasis on spirituality I like to tell people because", "my father who was a Methodist minister took me to the March on Washington with the Reverend Dr. Martin Luther King Jr when I was just before my 11th birthday, I was 10 years and 10 months that there has never been a separation of my notion God from my notions of social justice. A faith-based dedication to social justice was not a part of the discourses of mainstream feminism for most of those years.", "even when they began to do integration of it through you know sort of feminist scholarship in areas of say the other dominant religions in the west judaism and christianity and then in terms of like buddhism and hinduism um uh and you know other world religions they still continue to say that islam is irredeemably patriarchal cannot be", "way through feminism and that you cannot have Islam in feminism. So, that was a long-standing location for me that I experienced in my scholarship, in my publications, in presentations of professional groups, and that division left me in a position where I just said well there's nothing in feminism for me. And that stayed until the launching of UNSALWA literally in 2009 when", "when I came to a better understanding that, that kind of feminism is not the kind of feminist that I am. And at the same time as I said, that kinda Islam patriarchal hegemonic Islam is not my Islam and how those two things came together is part of the construction on Islamic feminism. And that's when I could go wholly into that title. Thank you. Thank You, Masha. We have another question from Reem Asad", "Reem Asaad. Before I say her question, it's on chat. Dr. Wadood what you're saying now reminded me of Barbara Christian's statement when she said, you know, she has an article called The Race for Theory and she was critical, you kno,w of western feminism and argued that in the race for theory women forgot that women come from different backgrounds they have different histories and so she is just negating the idea that there is only one monolithic definition", "definition of feminism and that's exactly what you're saying now so remusai thank you rinchi thank you ali for your question uh she said what was one thing you learned when studying and researching throughout your life that really changed how you thought about life and about islam one thing wow i don't know i'm a libra i don' like to make decisions let me just try", "I actually think it's Tawhid. Let me just give you a little bit of background. You know, when become Muslim, you have the option to change your name to something usually Arabic no motivation why that's necessary but that's what we thought and my first husband and I, when we first changed our name, the name that we chose as our last name was Ettawidi one who believes in Tawhi", "and tawhid. And at the time for both of us as former Christians, we were very interested in that theological part of that because Christianity also identifies as monotheistic but it still has the tripartite understanding. And so we were really trying to confirm you know the oneness", "with this term, but what really happened was about the time I was introduced to the Mandelbrot set. Don't know if you know anything about this is a mathematical formula that has sometimes when plotted out it's been called the eye of God because it shows how there is an internal unity even if you divide this into its smallest element it replicates itself", "And when you spread it out, it continues to replicate itself and if you spread about far enough it's the entire universe.", "know, express it especially thinking about a short introduction to sociology of Islam by Ali Shariati. And he has this whole thing on Tawhid and every place where I was looking into this, I would say like coalition of understanding Islam through Tawhi, it was exclusive agenda.", "And as I, I mean, I'm living this reality. So you know, I am not buying it but you know I don't have yet a way to articulate that and Satchkumarata her book on the Tao of Islam helped break it down for me because she outlines the Sufi discourses about the relationship between the two gender. And as he outlines it, she continues to participate in the adjominy of it", "it and i kept saying that just can't be right and it was actually you know a kind of like you know, a gift that I was fiddling around with these little desk toys. You know how they have like little things on your desk especially you see I always use my hands right? And these are little magnetic balls with little pegs that attach to them in various colors", "there's something wrong with this. And in fact, I teach this now when I teach workshops on gender equality, Islam believes there's no intermediary between any person and Allah the creator. In that model, Allah male female, the female has no direct access to Allah. So that's when I thought we need another model. And I played around with these sort of desktop toys.", "law is the highest focal point. Everybody's in agreement with that, but what happens if you remove the hegemony of the vertical model and instead emphasize the horizontal model with male and female at the two ends of it? What it created was a rubric of understanding that was unconditionally reciprocal equality. We are mirror of each other because we believe", "because we believe in the one Allah. And so that's when I began to really could contrive the Tahiti paradigm as a social justice rubric, which then could be implemented into law because whatever equality reciprocity was not confirmed it was in fact a construct of that hegemony and that had John Lee had been excuse me completely encoded you know, as I said in the law and emphasize a lot by culture", "was also my main motivation in accepting the role of being the lady imam. Because once I removed the notion that somehow Allah wanted me to be only in deference to the male, and I returned to a place where I had direct agency with Allah for the fulfillment of my khilafah or agency on the earth, once this materialized at the very deepest level", "the rest of my life was done. I mean, you know so far at least it's still been confirmed that somehow I am participating in the unity and beauty and the harmony of the whole creation but also being an active participant in the confirmation of equality and human dignity for all persons as an aspect of Islam fundamentally. So I would say that the Tawhidi paradigm is the one thing", "I'm so happy that your speech generated so many questions. I have so many", "gender identity. I teach religious studies as well, and I'm interested in your perspective on the 21st century. More and more research, and the latest by Pew Research Center and others on religion argue that more and more young people around the world are rejecting organized religions", "of the one they were brought in, but they have their own kind of way of defining that not going to any scripture or less problematic philosophies such as in their view Buddhism. Or are more and more identifying across the world as none n o n e in terms of religious identification", "or female have problems is that these traditional patriarchal religions no longer have meaning in today's world. And no matter how feminist, religious feminists, Jewish feminists or Christian or Muslim try to bring women into it, it's just not making any sense to them. So can you address", "and have you found um resistance to not only your but other religious feminist approaches thank you wow that's a whole dissertation oh man it's such a good question though so let me see if i can um uh do some uh you know unpacking of it um first of all i'm just going to be with the tongue in cheek and say i hope does it make sense what i'm asking yes it does make sense", "Yes, it does make sense. Thank you. I assume my enthusiasm would indicate how much sense it made to me but that's okay hopefully my answer will come first I just want to say that the Pew Foundation is not a religious studies expert so unfortunately, I cannot rely upon how they might define something like religion, let alone how they", "religion. So let me unpack that for a minute because it's important to the rest of my answer and that is, if you look at the history of the phenomena of religion amongst human, it's one of the things that we have evidence has existed once humans from the beginning of humans so anything we have about humans there's some indication of this relationship with the non ordinary. And so when I'm going to define religion, that's what I'm", "The input of the word organized is also politically charged because once again they are codifying someone's particular organizing principles, and then saying that is the religion. And this is extremely important for the work of Islamic feminism and for my work as well personally", "does not make the divisions into religion and spirituality that the New Age assertions are making. Because it is possible to have a spiritual experience and be in a quote unquote organized religion, and it is impossible to identify as spiritual and to be very rigid in your organization so I don't believe any of those terms are sufficient in and of themselves they all need", "to what I consider to be the more important thing. So you said, have I come into any of this with regard to bringing women into... I don't have to bring women into the religion. Before humans were created, Allah intended women to be their own selves, to be in a relationship with Allah. That relationship is what we call Islam that is in surrender and", "And nobody has to bring us in. We're already there. However, no religion organized or mystical can be put into practice except through people. And if human civilization about which we have also a great deal of evidence, if humanization, human civilization has all been patriarchal with few little spots here and there where it didn't happen. And they've been that way for like 6,000 years", "I'm not sure if you can hear me.", "That's why I say it needs a dissertation. Unpacking that has been my life's work 50 years because I do not relinquish my Islam to anyone for any reason. I do need anyone's permission to define Islam in accordance with my own research and soul search, both of which I have done throughout those 15 years. So the idea that you relinquished religions", "because you call it organized as if, and there's a kind of arrogance in this. And I believe this arrogance is intentional as if somehow all the mystical experiences of the human populations across time have only been extra religious at this outside of religion that is historically inaccurate. So if people in the modern period want to assert for themselves", "organized religion what i hear because of course i do a lot of public work what i here when that comes up is i don't want to be apart of the rigid definition of who I am within their religion and even how I participate in well since I've been doing that my whole life. I never get any people confronting me with regard to that I identify for the sake of politics as an eclectic Muslim,", "only am I the daughter of a Methodist minister who bequeathed me the God of love, my last name Wadu comes from El Wadud, the attribute of Allah that means loving. Not only was I bequeathe the loving God from my father, meaning I had no problem with Christianity in my experience of it as I was growing up, but also while I was in the university, I became a Buddhist and I started practicing meditation, which I still do daily now. And then once", "silent meditation retreat. So I'm an eclectic Muslim and I accept the identification not only with my own religious experiences as a Muslim, but also with the religious experiences of my ancestors. And then I have bequeathed that legacy to my children four of whom identify as Muslim,", "to form spiritual and social justice communities in the public space. And then they intermarried with multiple religions, multiple relate religions and ethnicities so I have all these hybrid grandchildren. So I don't have an organized patriarchal notion of Islam period like I just don't", "And I try to work with what is the source of their understanding and what is", "of an arm of religion in all of its complexity. Thanks. Thank you so much, thank you very much indeed. Now we have four questions and for the sake of time I'm going to read two of them. Carolina and Ella and then Nicole and Cassandra. So Carolina said to you do you particularly view the dress code as a form of oppression or a religious requirement", "participate in and ella's question is has your research ever felt at odds with your spirituality if so how did you resolve that conflict and then after this question we're going to come to nicole and sandra thank you okay wow lovely questions um i uh am hijab by choice", "I mentioned a little bit about my conversion experience on Thanksgiving Day that I'd already started dressing modestly and covering my hair as a part of my identity as a black woman in America because there is, there's a double standard with regard to how black women are conceived up in the public space. I do not cover all the time.", "politics. Politics is, if you look at the title of the book, Politics of the Veil, if You look at that book, you will understand that even no matter what my personal decisions may be I enter into an arena of a politicized discourse where it's either going to be enforced that you wear it or enforce that you take it off by certain governments and certain cultures and I defy both of those as being the point of identity for me so i take mine off when I want to", "I keep mine on when I want to and nobody gets to determine which one of those I will do. But I do it in a very personal identification with the legacy, the dignity of my own people, Black women who were brought here from Africa enslaved and then stripped of their garments and not allowed to choose how they would be presented in the public space. And I use something that stylistically is related to Islam because stylistically", "because stylistically I find those to be the most attractive. That's just the way that, you know if you look at the other book modest, what's the full Liz Booker's book on there's a title about modesty and piety and address it's a wonderful book she examines choices especially young women have been making across Turkey Indonesia and a couple of other places in the world, pious fashion.", "So there is obviously, you know like a fashion predilection that goes with it. And I am a part of an active discourse to remove the enforcement of either taking it off or putting it on everywhere. I do participate in those conversations but mine is very personal. It's not cultural. I'm African-American and after 9 11 every time I would go through any airport security", "in America, wouldn't happen at other places in the world. Maybe a little bit in Europe. I would be put with all the brown people and immigrants and stuff like that because I was noticeably Muslim whereas all the black people that you recognize as black people, that I recognize as Black people cause I'm Black they were all let go through and I thought oh well that's really interesting because now there is whole another politic that's going on here and so I elected to always have my hijab on when I went through security whereas as I said I don't wear it all the time", "G.L.A. So it is a question of choice for me and I exercise that choice out of my privileged position on that, I am an international traveler and i'm afforded the opportunity to make the choices that I make without having it be denied but it's not my culture. G.R.I.P. As far as something at odds with my research in my spirituality. G。R. I did mention that you know I did this research.", "research funded by the arkis foundation for three years on sexual diversity and human dignity. And I did come to some challenges, and the beauty of this is when you are honest with yourself with regard to the challenge, and you do what they call in the black spiritual wading in the water, to wade in the", "immerse yourself. Immersing myself in that which was causing doubt allowed me, and to do so honestly, allowed me to honestly either resolve or to defy. And so yes I do experience conflicts", "my research and spirituality. But again, because I'm working on the integration of my masculine and feminine, my Jamal and my Jelab, my yin and my yang, these two things work in concert to actually bring me greater serenity spiritually and as far as a rational or intellectual research goes. So they work in tandem to enhance the experience of being alive. Thank you very much indeed.", "very much indeed now nicole's question says it's an honor to hear from you thank you dr wadud as dr ali has mentioned we have read your book quran and women woman rereading the secret from a woman's perspective 1999 is there anything you would want to update us as a new eddie a new addition uh to the book", "question from Cassandra. She said, were these feminist views sparked by other cultures or religions? Is the term feminism a sort of awakening for women to understand the Quranic words and through different perspectives and not just what is taught to them?", "was first published in 1992. I just want to confirm that, that's why i said 30 years of the edition that you have with the white cover uh was when the copyrights were transferred to the Oxford University Press Office in New York it's not the original publication date although the text is exactly the same with the addition of a glossary and a new preface", "I did begin working on my second book and that book is called Inside the Gender Jihad. And in it chapter six, is literally the sequel to Quran a Woman. It's very complicated in terms of dealing with certain aspect of methodology but I would urge you to look at that if you want to know how my own thoughts have developed specifically with regard to Quran interpretation.", "with Musawa movement. So musawa.org, Musawa spelled with an H at the end is online and they have resources so you can get copies of subsequent work that I've done with regard to different levels of interpretation. So interpretation as a method of reading the Quran for me Alhamdulillah does continue to grow. And most recently, I was just talking to a guest", "most recently the research that i did on gender diversity and human dignity has led to yet another and I have not written about it anywhere. I've done it in some classes and stuff like that um, and it is about ambiguity uh as spiritual methodology so I'm looking forward to taking the time to develop that you know for the purpose of print", "So, yes, I most definitely moved from 1992. That's really based on research that I did between 1985 and getting my PhD in 1988 so that work is way older, and I have continued to grow, and", "As far as to get feminist views at SPART. Okay, so I tried to explain that my particular sojourn in feminism was comprehensively and exclusively a part of my journey through Islam and gender and sexuality discourse. Of course, I've had many wonderful opportunities by organized", "I organized meetings, conference panels, individual lectures and programs retreats with women of many religions in the world. I mean you know I live in Asia. I just taught a course at Promenudix with a professor from a Catholic university and he explored in his PhD the relationship between", "Asian culture and the understanding of Christianity, and also referred to other feminist Asian scholars of Christianity. And of course I've known and worked with quite a few of them in a number of as I said platforms over the years so of course there has been across fertilization of ideas but at this point,", "has been rather exclusively of my own faith journey through Islam. I have shared quite a bit of that with you, like for example the Chalhidi paradigm and how that transformed not only my scholarship but activism and spirituality. And because there are enough challenges to being a Black female from a poor background who is a scholar", "scholar and activist in Islam. Because there are enough challenges just within that one corner of the planet, I have not yet had the opportunity to benefit from the ways in which the feminist struggles have unfolded themselves for women in other religious traditions with the exception of something that happened sometime during the pandemic.", "I was invited to give a lecture for Guru Jagat. She passed away within the last six months, she was only 41 years old and I had never been so impressed with a person who didn't know me you know and didn't do my work by the way in which he interviewed me. You can see it on my YouTube channel or you can join my Patreon page to do it and one of the things that I can say that she inspired in me", "is about locating yourself in the joy of your spiritual path, you know to find the joy to live in the Joy. Joy is one of those things you can't fake, you like it has to be comprehensive now I have loved Islam.", "that in my 70th year of life, half a century as an adult Muslim and 30 years since my first publication. And I want to say at 10 years, you know, since Hajj and Umrah, that in this stellar year that I would take this year to be a year of the affirmation of joy. And", "There's a book called Never Holy Other by Harusha Lamptey from UTS, Union Theological Seminary in New York. And she actually talks about the methodology of shared religious readings by women.", "it was not by Christian or Jewish women. It was either by Muslims, or by women who are part of Wiccan, or a Buddhist locations and some animist locations that if I was inspired, I would be inspired by women from traditions that are not theologically monotheistic but actually they're a little bit more pantheistic", "If I were to be inspired, I think that will be where it would come from so far. We're having a nice exchange and hasn't yet been that they bring the inspiration except for this aspect of joy and Guru Jagat Meshua's peace. Well thank you very much indeed Professor Amina Wadud with that we come to the close of these very beautiful 90 minutes", "the audience my colleagues and my students i really appreciate all of the participation and we really appreciate your time and we are very sorry that we woke you up so early in indonesia and so it's uh tonight here this morning you know early morning on friday and so somebody is just asking another last question uh let me see who's that and that would be lost from here um", "i just wanted to say this has been one of the most engaging and easy to understand lectures while unpacking heavy topics i have license to and in a long time so thank you for coming and thank you very much indeed many many maya and other people are just you know it's difficult to you know so uh cassandra nicole let me see all of them they're thanking you", "thanking you all over again. Thank you all and thank you, Professor Suad. I love your questions. Especially when questions come outside of the box because sometimes you get the same things over and over again and just FYI, I wake up at 4 to 4 30 every day do my prayer meditation so by the time we got to my lecture i had already done quite a few things so this is a great time for me no problem whatsoever thank you suat", "and called Richmond that's what that comment was from Richmond. Thank you very much indeed once again, and thank you everybody we really appreciate all of your time Dr Amin Wadud and we hope to see you again in person maybe next time on campus I know that the time you were here it was 2007 when you were invited by the Center for the Study of Religion and Conflicts and then I invited you 2013 as part of the American Academy for Religion Western Region", "And now we are very happy to see you the third time and we look forward to seeing you again. So have a good day, and thank you. Thank you so much. On behalf of the advisory board of the Council for Arabic and Islamic Studies I'd like to thank everybody. I would like to remind you of our next event which is part of the Arabic film and poetry series on April 20th", "contemporary and modern Arabic poetry. And we will please keep following our website, and stay tuned for upcoming events as well. Thank you very much indeed. And thank you, Sparsh, my graduate aide, for all of the IT work. And I thank you very everybody. We'll see you soon inshallah. Thank You. Thank-you Professor. You're welcome. Thankyou" ]
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amina_wadud/Dr_ Amina Wadud__1742933930.opus	[]
amina_wadud/Dr amina wadud - BRISMES 2021 Annual Conference Ke_5daBUL2l5O8&pp=ygURQW1pbmEgV2FkdWQgaXNsYW0%3D_1742907596.opus	[ "Okay. Good morning, good afternoon, good evening wherever you are. Thank you so very much for being with us today. We're very glad and very honored to have Dr Amina Wadud with us", "gender and sexuality. After receiving or achieving full professor, she retired from the US academia except as visiting researcher to the Star King School for the Ministry in California in the United States. And after 15 years in retirement, she has recently returned as visiting professor at the National Islamic University in Indonesia. She migrated to Indonesia", "in 2018 to avoid the chaos of US politics and ethics firsthand. She is the author of Quran and Women, rather rereading the sacred text from a woman's perspective in 1999, a classic that helped towards development of epistemology and methodology in Islamic feminism which is the most dynamic outcome", "Islamic reform today, one would say. It's three decades old and is translated over 10 times most recently into French. Her second manuscript inside the gender jihad women's reform in Islam then moved the discussion further and aligned with the mandate for ethics and activism to be in collaboration after completing a three year research grant", "Grant, investigating 500 years of Islamic classical discourse on sexual diversity and human dignity funded by the Arcus Foundation. She is organizing an international center for queer Islamic theology which is the first in the world. She's a mother of five and a Nana to six. She", "provide an overview of the historical development of a hybrid Islamic or Islam combined with an intersectional feminism, rather being called Islamic feminism. And of course, Islamic feminism is a conflation of several factors impacting discourse research and activism by and about Muslim women.", "approach to text in defense, indifference sorry, to context. It creates alternative readings to those characterized throughout Muslim history in order to remove Islam from the centuries long privileging of patriarchy. We expect Dr. Amina's presentation to run for about 45 minutes and then we'll be having 45 minutes more for question and answers", "So feel free to type those questions in the chat or you can always raise your virtual hand as well, to ask those questions to Dr. Amina directly and also please do mute yourself and feel free have your camera on as well. So that being said we're very privileged in PRISMUS and as a PRISMS council member", "Dr. Amina Wadud here today to speak to us about what is in the name of Islamic feminism, the floor is yours, Dr. Ameena thank you so very much.", "I am in Indonesia and the sun will be setting so i hope my light will be sufficient. Also this beautiful painting is on the wall, I'm not at home, I m in a hotel, I don't even want to explain why I m here but in any case I m glad that everything has linked up. I m going to read from a recent publication that I have on perspectives on Islamic feminist exegesis", "the question, what's in a name? Islamic feminist exegesis of the Quran was a precursor to the rise of Islamic feminism as methodology and movement. In 1992 when I published my PhD dissertation under the names Quran and Woman there was no such thing as Islamic feminism. Instead one had to choose between feminisms that were overwhelmingly hostile", "to religion, especially Islam and the dominant interpretation of Islam that was overwhelmingly patriarchal. These are now referred to as secular feminism and as Islamism or political Islam. The most common mantra was you cannot have feminism and Islam. While some still think this is the case overall a vibrant", "intersectional movement began to take place as we entered the new millennium, challenging the dominant rubrics of both feminism and Islam. The first publication of Quran in Women in Malaysia did not lead to a revolution. While it was being edited for publication however I entered a new revolutionary life trajectory that would impact my interpretive work.", "founding members to a grassroots women's organization called Sisters in Islam, I would enter Muslim feminist activism for social justice from within an Islamic faith perspective which would change my textual hermeneutics. As a PhD student it was easy to locate my individual self as a Muslim woman", "concept of relating it to Muslim women as a collective in their lived realities within the context of culture, policy and law. There is no Muslim personal status law in the United States. The ad hoc legal postulates in certain Muslim communities are overwhelmingly patriarchal but these are not the law of the land and so they lack state enforcement. Working with CIS for", "years that I was in Malaysia, I saw the important nexus between theory and praxis. This would lead me to promote the idea of context over text in my analysis. The context of lived realities for Muslim women especially when used in codification of public policy would come to eclipse the text wherever it", "Here I will discuss the importance of live realities to the hermeneutics of the Quran. This led me to new knowledge production and an expansion of authority beyond the dominant male control of nearly 14 centuries. In turn, this would lead me to Islamic feminism. As the Islamic feminist movement began to unfold in 1990s, it challenged", "frameworks of feminisms, even amongst Muslims. It also helped me to transform my approach to hermeneutics. While Islamic feminism could be said to be part of global feminisms and of Islamic reform in the new millennium, it has taken a more comprehensive and truly global step, more so than any other aspect of Islamic", "that does not engage the gender dynamic is outdated and incomplete. The journey towards Islamic feminist knowledge production, as distinct from previously confirmed ideas of feminism depended upon a coherent methodology of using gender as a category of interrogation for all Islamic primary sources", "It dismantles more than a thousand years of patriarchal control over textual exegesis and Muslim lives. While Islamic feminism centers on the lived realities of Muslim women, it's not just about women. It is about moving the understanding of gender from hegemony and control to equality and reciprocity. My first book, Quran in Women,", "It enhanced the field of Quranic exegesis by confirming not only that Muslim women speak, but also by providing evidence that when we speak, we do so from our own realities. Furthermore it gave evidence that men had been speaking from their own lived realities for centuries and calling it universal.", "calling it universal. As Muslim women speak, we say some things differently from what men have said for over a millennium. Although Islamic feminist exegesis is more than just women to include women's lived realities in Quranic analysis challenges the dominant and prolific model of centering in analysis", "men's experiences as if universal. By centering women's voices and experiences in the way the primary texts are understood, and adjudicated, the whole rubric of patriarchal hegemony was upset. Islamic feminism takes into consideration the epistemology of textual analysis by constructing gender as a category of thought.", "a conscious part of feminist analysis and critique before the end of the 20th century. Instead, Muslim women and men who identified with feminism identified with the dominant imperialistic feminisms of the global north. For whatever merits these previously existing feminisms might offer, the potential for rejection amongst lay Muslims was forestalled when the methodology for gender reforms was drawn from Islamic sources", "sources without the patriarchal readings of the past. In the past, classical Islamic intellectual traditions operated within a well-entrenched patriarchal model taking for granted that men were the ideal agents and that they were superior to women as a matter of cosmology, theology, epistemology, and praxis. Men were in charge", "movement towards the divine. To be sure, Islamic classical thought expressed a general understanding promoted in the Quran and by the Prophet upon him be peace that women are fully human simultaneously patriarchal interpretations and implementations subtracted from women's full humanity at almost every turn. Patriarchy is not the subject of my discussion here but as the elephant in", "will indicate how I understand it in order to show why it is not the focus. To focus on patriarchy distracts from the tasks that I have taken up over a lifetime and once again centers the discussion around men, men's ways of knowing being or doing. Patriarchic gift gives privilege to men over centuries of the human movement to manifest its highest earthly potential.", "It was encoded first by actions and social structures, and justified in Hellenistic philosophy. In Hellenist philosophy each person has a place in society, namely free citizen and male over slaves non citizens and female. Some places are higher than others, including the city of Jerusalem.", "including some placed as slaves to serve others placed as masters. The presumption that a slave is equal to a master in all ways was unfathomable, and as such was justification for the institution of slavery. So patriarchy is not just a gender construct. However, in application to gender it mandates a hegemony based on privileging cis men over all others, including women.", "including women. So let me just say a little bit about how Islamic feminist exegesis is developed through the Quran, starting with the cosmology. In Islamic cosmology humans descend from a single nefs which is soul self or being. Nefs is feminine grammatically but it is used for the essence of the sentient being whether male female or non-binary", "binary. It has been translated as soul or self, although there are other words for soul in Arabic. Since the word nests is also used in the Quran for the creator who is not a being at all it should not be seen as a substitute for human except in the way the creation story is told. All of humankind descends from a single nest according to", "explicit Quranic pronouncement.", "granted that the first human was Adam, just as it is taken for granted that Adam was a male person. However even prior to this human creation in the Quran assures us from all things we have created pairs. Thus male and female are equally essential to the ontological design", "Every created thing participates in the binary at some level, but not necessarily with hegemony. Quranic cosmology does not include an original sin which was then assigned as the fault of woman. The language of Quranic Cosmology uses that unique Arabic dual form and is therefore inclusive.", "However, scriptural exegesis at the time of the revelation of the Quran often came from Christian and Jewish exegeses of their previous sacred texts. This includes encoding hegemonic reading of the first human as male and the first sinner as female. When applied to Quranic analysis throughout the centuries this asymmetrical gendered reading was taken for granted by Muslim scholars in laypersons for centuries.", "since for centuries. The first time I received a letter threatening my death was after a public lecture in which I debunked the rib story. Someone had admired my analysis and written an editorial on one of the main newspapers. In response to that editorial, someone else left a letter in my Islamic University campus mailbox. It said if I believe that there's no rib story then that means that I believe something that I had not said", "said, which according to the letter writer is a sign of apostasy and the punishment for apostasy is death. In other words, the letterwriter was interpreting my interpretation of the fact that there is no rib story in the Quran. His or her interpretation was then made analogous with apostasy, the punishment", "prudence, although here it was stated as if it had complete consensus. The prevailing idea among Muslims is that the man Adam was put to sleep and a woman Eve or Hawa was extracted from under his heart. None of these details are in the Quranic story of cosmology. So this is another example of why it's important to reread the text from a gender perspective.", "Such a reading challenges certain entranced ideas and leads to the production of new knowledge. The significance of knowledge production cannot be overstated, especially as related to a religious ethos which includes a revelatory text. Most Muslims expect only to receive religious knowledge that descends from a sacred and unknown source.", "In Muslim history, an elite class of interpreters would evolve and eventually be elevated to a level of near infallibility despite structural prohibition against such a reading throughout all of Muslim intellectual history. More vexing is that this elitism denies women's scholarship even when seeking knowledge was", "was incumbent upon women. Women were denied the right to learn, women were not denied the rights to learn to think and speak except for the imposition of patriarchy in culture. Thus Muslim majority countries have had lower rates of literacy amongst women than many other countries in the modern world. These limitations cannot be said to be based on the Qur'an or the Sunnah.", "Despite the universal mandate for women to seek knowledge as an integral, even mandatory part of Islam. Women's ways of knowing were not substantial in the establishment of the operating paradigms of Islamic thought and practice. For example, a Hadith of the Prophet says seeking knowledge is incumbent upon every Muslim male and female.", "was deemed incongruent with truth or orthodoxy, while men apparently had no subjectivity and their knowledge was canonized as if sacred or divine. Islamic feminist reforms have returned all interpreters to their status as mere humans struggling to understand and to implement divine mandates.", "Imagine how hard it is to disengage men's subjectivities from the copious, often erudite and eloquent construction of Islamic thought. The moment women seek authority through knowledge production their full humanity can suffer challenges by being chastised as disbelievers, heretics even enemies to Islam.", "How often Muslim women attach words like believer or practicing to themselves and their intellectual production or activism. To engage in textual analysis from a male perspective is sacrosanct and scholarly, but to engage textual analyses from a female perspective is heretical even evil. Male and female are not close categories. All that is masculine is not male", "All that is feminine is not female. All that male is not masculine and all that is female is not feminine, rather feminine and masculine form a spectrum between two points often described as female and male but which are merely binary abstract possibilities. I identify as non-binary because my feminine aspects operate in a constant", "in a constant dynamic relationship with my masculine aspects. Within the spectrum of possibilities, reality is never exclusive nor absolute. All humans fall within this binary spectra with both masculine and feminine attributes, aspects, and essences.", "Gender is a construct. During the foundational discourses of Islamic thought, men dominated the discussion and encoded their own humanity as total and comparable for both women and men. Men became the measure of what it means to be human. The achievement of excellence as a human was often constructed to belong exclusively to men", "even then not all men. Men who were servants, travelers, indigents or not the same ethnicity color race religion and sexual expression were like all women also considered deficient in their full humanity according to Hellenistic philosophy this was good and just", "within a necessary hegemony with differential treatment and analysis as natural and necessary. If any two beings came together, one must be better than the other. Therefore men were better. Patriarchy follows a logic of hegemomy. In my work I've advocated a move beyond the flawed logic of", "logic of reciprocity and equality. And I will elaborate on this a little bit later under the term tawheed. Through textual analysis from a gender perspective of Quranic cosmology, I constructed a new epistemology of human equality starting with the human purpose or teleology. The Quran states, I will make on the earth an agent in the", "A khalifa is a moral agent. There's no original sin that caused the fall to the earth. Earth was always the goal and the place where the human agent fulfills their purpose as agents on the earth, establishing justice is mandatory. However, Islamic feminist ethics has unpacked there are many ways in which agency was given completely", "women. Women's agency was best articulated as a completion of men's agency, otherwise women were more often considered a primary deterrent to men fulfilling their agency. For example, Zahra Ayubi in her recent book Gendered Morality in 2019 gives a thorough analysis of how the primary architecture of Muslim philosophy built upon Hellenistic thought confirmed that", "confirmed that men are full moral beings and women, while endowed with a soul, are never able to aspire to the completion of the highest moral excellence. In Sadia Sheikh's book Sufi Narratives of Intimacy from 2012 she elaborates how even in the mystical traditions of Islam this hegemony was in operation by discussing a notable exception Mughyiddin ibn al-Adami", "a 12th century Andalusian philosopher and mystic. He was one of the first Muslim intellectuals to integrate women into the discourse about the highest human potential, al-insan al-qamin. While Ibn Arabi practiced what he preached through a legacy of following women as spiritual teachers, as well as behind them in ritual prayer, he also supported some of the standard patriarchal rubrics of his day.", "of his day. During the 8th to 13th century Abbasid dynasty, women's voices would be almost totally silenced in Islamic knowledge production. The roles women performed to complete their humanity were not considered agency especially in jurisprudence. This left a gaping hole rendering people like Ibn al-Arabi rare exceptions", "A few small voices did not change the formula that was tantamount to a sacred mandate. Still today, excuse me, the active inclusion of women's realities is undervalued in the estimation of the human sojourn from the perspective of male Islamic scholars. Recently, Kisha Ali 2013 enumerated the exclusions", "the exclusions of women scholars in the citation of almost all Muslim male scholars, even when the discussion is related to matters of women and gender. Excuse me. When we say women and men are equal many Muslims take this to mean women want to be men. Even here, the man", "The men are the standard by which women make their aspirations. Another example is when the Sufi hagiographer Attar justified inclusion of the name of the most famous female mystic of love, Rabia al-Adawiyya who died in 801 in his biography of the saints he said whoever reaches the level", "He didn't say ceases to be a woman, but I added that. Ceases to Be A Woman. In other words, she is counted among the men implying that the higher a person goes on the scale of spirituality, the more male they become. The measurement of one's humanity, ethics, spirituality and agency are based upon the idealized location for men. Women can never measure up against this because", "they are their own measurement. The idea that women should be their own measurements has taken some time to be promoted for critical analysis of Islamic sources. As we left the 20th century, scholarship and activism had taken a radical paradigm shift. Women's agency, creativity, spirituality, and scholarship are part of the landscape.", "are there are still many places where this is in opposition. Muslim women's voices and agency have reached a critical mask such that we will not be turned back despite efforts to that effect. I've spent almost 50 years in Quranic analysis while never wishing to become a man.", "From my PhD dissertation, I projected the idea of reading for the absence of sexual stereotyping in the Quran. A reading that stands in juxtaposition to scholars and activists who give precedent to those Quranic statements that repeat the prevailing gender hegemony at the time of revelation as if they are the core of the Quran", "of the Qur'an over statements that participate in equality and reciprocity at the highest level. While hegemony is confirmed as a matter within social and historical context, Islamic feminist readings give precedent to statements that affirm the ethics of equality and", "the personal in their own reading, indicating the ways that male scholars of the past had ignored their personal reading was, in fact, a strategic political move. The Quran is not only prescriptive, it is descriptive. In the Quranic worldview, the epistemological rhetoric of othering is absent. I have addressed all", "scholarship and activism, but I have not taken them as the standard by which I measure the entire Quran. What does it take to establish the Quranic construction of gender equality as the central rubric of understanding all of the Quran? In fact, all of Islam. Then how do we establish this equality for its ethical implementations? This question aligns Islamic theology with", "realities of Muslim women. So I developed a theological perspective on gender equality over the past two decades, I started with a critical reading of the introductory chapter to Satyagraha Murata's excellent book The Da'al of Islam. The book accurately depicts the logic of traditional Sufism about complementarity in male- female relationships including", "including eloquent analogies like the sky and earth or the pen and tablet. However, these traditional analogues confirm only one active direction resulting in unequal relationships. The sky lets down to the Earth. The pen writes onto the tablet. Sky and pen are the exclusive active agents making", "and tablet only receptive. Thus, the male is not like the female.\" The graphic depiction shows Allah on top, the man in middle, and the woman at bottom. The sky-earth-pen-tablet analogies confirm that there's only one active direction down.", "And that was that there is no direct unmitigated relationship between a law at the top and the female at the bottom. The male in the middle interferes with that direct relationship for while the mail received directly from a law, and even acts directly upon the female. There is a separation between Allah and the", "directly with Allah because the male is in the way. As a result, the relationship between her and the male, is unequal or asymmetrical. The most astounding aspect of the fallacy of this vertical logic replicated throughout all of the normative Islamic cosmology philosophy and theology from the classical period is that it prevents the required direct relationship", "gender expression, or gender identity. A direct relationship without intermediary is fundamental in Islamic theology. The vertical model while accurately depicting the worldview of classical thoughts culture and practice could not express the full range of Islamic theology", "to re-envision Islamic ethics according to a reciprocal model. The new graphic was like a triangle. A law was on the topmost point, putting the male and the female as two points on a horizontal line. A lot is omnipresent however, and not limited to one fixed point.", "pinpoints a law as the highest point, but it is not meant to capture a law, as if only at that single point. The graphic was necessary to demonstrate the difference between the hegemonic idealized cosmology of classical thought and the Tawhidic expression of Islamic feminist thought. The fixed locations of Allah in this graphic is a mere metaphorical depiction.", "The new model tackled the pervasive patriarchal thinking with men on top, superior to or in charge of women and non-elite others. I call it the Tawhidic paradigm because it is built upon the indisputable and fundamental theological principle of Islam called Tawhi.", "and unique. It is derived from the second form of the verb, and it's thus dynamic. Allah unites. To depict Allah on the top as the highest metaphysical reality then places the female and male on a line of horizontal reciprocity. Therefore they must be equal to affirm the oneness of Allah. All who claim", "and who wish to live in surrender to Allah, which by the way is another word for the word Islam must operate in such a way that the divine reality of one is expressed in all human-to-human relationships only with reciprocity and equality. This theological understanding invites us", "application in the context of social justice. No matter the basis, whether sexuality, race, class, religion, ethnicity, geography, et cetera, anyone who participates in the hegemonic logic violates the principle of Tawhid which is fundamental to Islam and would grant supremacy only to Allah. Divine unicity demands gender equality", "However, despite the Tawhidic theological framework, classic Islamic discourse maintained a pervasive hegemonic binary logic. In the Quranic cosmology, the story of Satan provides a clue. Iblis was a jinn, an unseen being created of smokeless fire. Unlike angels, jinn have free will.", "free will with which they can choose to surrender to a law or disobey like humans. When Iblis was ordered to bow down to the original human person, nefs or soul he refused saying i am better than he. He was created from an atom of dirt or tin and i was created", "is Istiqbar, to make oneself better than another. This corresponds to the I-it of Martin Buber in Islamic feminist interpretation of Quranic cosmology inequality results from thinking of one's self as better than an other. Furthermore, istiqbaar is the root of alzhu systemic oppression such that one group", "One group imagines itself to have power over another. In the Quran, Allah is omnipotent but does not oppress. Oppression or zurm is not a divine quality. It is a form of arrogance and therefore ungodly. Quranic language syntax and metaphor is absent", "on the basis of human to human characteristics and diversity. In the Quran, the only qualification of preference is based on the twin rubric of faith and good deeds. The highest ethical term in the Quran is taqwa. Taqwa is both the moral consciousness that results from awareness", "ethical action or deeds that result from the compassion this consciousness leads to. The Quran is explicit, the most noble of you and the sight of Allah is the one with the most taqwa. So when the Quran does make note of characteristics for persons placed situationally in elevation over others these are descriptive passages.", "The Quran is descriptive and prescriptive. Another feature of feminist exegesis is limiting descriptive passages to a particular past while encoding prescriptives into their universal benefit across time. Rhetorical hegemony accounts for a manifest I-it social construct through a satanic", "a satanic consciousness. The statements confirming existing hegemonies are not the subject of Quranic prescription.\" So now let's look at lived reality as a methodology for legal reform. Thus, patriarchy while pervasive was merely the faulty logic of a hegemanic binary.", "Islamic feminist scholarship forms an important part of the solution to dismantle gender inequality by direct reference to Islamic primary sources. However, it is merely a theoretical foundation which insists upon a critical reading agenda. It needs to be radically in conversation with practices as established by activists organizations like Sisters and", "sisters in Islam, and Malaysia, and the global movement for reform and Muslim family Musawah. Because the interpretive logic of the Tawhidic paradigm mandates equality as built directly from Islam's most sacred text it is Islamic in source and construct. It does not merely mimic other feminisms even when used by Muslims", "For while the Quranic ideals overlap some earlier feminist ideas regarding the full human dignity of women, in Islamic feminism, the particulars of the intra-Quranic worldview are used over selective and exclusivist models of feminism. Muslims have participated in, added to, and advanced through other forms of feminism even before they were challenged for their lives", "for their lack of intersectionality. Islamic feminism is distinct from earlier Muslim feminisms by its methodology. It cannot be said to belong to all Muslim feminist methodologies. Furthermore, the application of the Tawhidic theological paradigm to policy moved the efficacy of Islamic feminism", "could only be derived directly from Islamic primary sources unfettered by centuries of hegemonic thinking or by the privileging of feminisms from the global north. In the context of the modern nation state, Islamic feminist methodology challenges the habit of justifying certain ideas about unequal status and disparate access to full dignity before", "in the name of Islam. Then, the history of Islamic law comes into consideration. The Islamic legal system starts with a foundational idea called Shalia, the path that leads to the source of life or water. It is used as the way of Allah, the fulfillment of the divine will and the correct path straight and mandatory. One of the most intense intellectual developments around", "around across Muslim time and place was a development of the ideas about Sharia as a particular Muslim jurisprudence. Eventually recognized scholars of the law were ascribed unconditional authority, even over matters about which they had no firsthand information because they were almost all male. Dismantling male privilege in Islamic law", "requires a critical reread of gender, but also a comprehensive application of that critical read to the ways in which patriarchal laws are confirmed within the context of the modern nation state mechanisms. One important legacy of colonialism was allowing Muslim majority states or states with sizable Muslim minorities", "or family law through local customs or religion. Thus, patriarchy became encoded in the law of the land where it remains even until today despite other political rubrics of democracy and change. The next crucial development of Islamic feminism was taking gender inclusive interpretation along", "to advocate for reform in law and policy, this is where context is used to determine the correct application of the text. Taking into consideration women's lived realities as a key element for the just application of Islamic law. These interpretive, these reinterpreted models", "models are linked with the pervasive understanding underlining all disciplines in the Islamic intellectual tradition, and that is justice. That justice is fundamental and universal. However, Islamic feminists asked if a law is just how our unjust laws perpetuated in the name of Allah?", "It was difficult to unpack the patriarchal primging of Islamic law and disentangle it from the state. First, a distinction had to be made between the classical idea of law called sharia and the state and the distinction... I'm sorry, sorry, the text is so small. The distinction between what is actually interpretation of the divine way or fethah.", "Tfi'qa is the human understanding of the right path or divine will. Not only is it completely human, but also specific as such it needs to be continually considered across time and place in order to complete its ultimate mandate how to justly adhere to a path that leads to Allah.", "is often erroneously called Islamic law or even Sharia, or the divine way. As Abdullahi and Naeem pointed out in 2008, humans can never implement divine law. They could only implement the human estimation of the goals, methods, and objectives of the divine in accordance to the practicalities of their interpretation and context. I am now at 44 minutes", "paying attention to the time, I'm going to make a quick summary of where we go from here. And that is to say that Islamic feminist preoccupation with knowledge production prioritizes the impact of certain interpretations on the lives, on the real lives of women. As a consequence there has to be a dynamic conversation between activism", "and their experiences relative to how the state implements what is called Islamic law, especially with regard to the family. There are some interesting implications for this in terms of a new area of study on queer Islamic theology but I won't have a chance to go into it except to say that there is classical Islamic ulama or scientists of the Quran", "reintegration, things like the relationship between qati or specific passages and banni or ambiguous passages and how ambiguous passages may actually allow for the liminal spaces where, for example, non-binary people do exist. But also taking the khas or the specific and making them universal was a habit of the past whereas now we want to take", "to project them into the universal on the grounds of tawhid so in other words the process of interpretation and application is ongoing and i would love to detail more of this during the course of nancy's session thank you very much thank you so very much dr amina for this clear eye-opening and comprehensive uh talk um", "your talk center the concept of social justice and center real world experiences of women. I'm sure many of us have lots of questions now, please do use the virtual hand in the team somewhere at the bottom of the team chat to ask your questions otherwise you can also use", "of the team's screen. We'll give it a few minutes for questions, I'm sure audience are thinking of those and we'll ask maybe a question. Okay, we have two questions and then they can come to me as well. So let's go to Nicola and then Anthony. Thank you so much Dr Amina.", "I learned so much from your talk. So my question is really, the philosophy of Islamic feminism is very rich and as Malika said by centering justice this is so positive but I'm just wondering then how Islamic feminists are then what happens in the real world when Islamic feminis have to deal with", "those people who refuse this philosophy and who have power to override, if you like these very important claims and understandings. I wanted to hear a bit more about how this is playing out in practice in the context in which you have experience. Thanks. Should I answer each question one by one?", "on? I prefer to take two or three. Is that okay? Yeah, maybe that is okay. Yeah, because my note taking this is really bad. Um, I love this question and unfortunately it's a whole lecture so I'm going to try to make it concise. The Musawa movement www.musawa.org was launched in 2009 based on previous experiences working", "group of sisters in Islam and in collaboration with other Muslim women's organizations worldwide. And that's what I meant by, what's happening when the state adjudicates on the basis of a certain kind of understanding of Islam and that one being very hegemonic patriarchal. So what Musawah has been doing, and they have quite a comprehensive connection to other organizations", "of states is to combine this knowledge production, this Islamic feminist knowledge production that is interrogating sacred texts from a gender inclusive perspective with the constitution of those nation-states and also with the international instruments like CEDAW, The Convention for the Elimination of All Forms of Discrimination Against Women because almost all", "majority states in the Muslim minority states with large populations of Muslims have signed CEDAW. And CEDO has certain articulations with regard to equality and reciprocity that the States will often hold reservations against, and Musawah has been challenging this at the UN for a number of years now. And finally, the UN is actually starting to listen because what is happening is that we are taking only", "of Islam and saying that is Islam. And we have been challenging that actually for 30 years with Sisters in Islam. So what happens is, in application it's really on a case-by-case basis. In other words there's a framework you can look at the Musawah website they do put out their entire methodology and they do give quite a vast amount of data to support the progress that's been made but on a", "issues come up in certain nation states, say for example child marriage. And we approach the particular issue with this Tauhidic framework and also say on the basis of that Tauheedic framework, in order for Islam to be implemented in the context of the constitution that most Muslim countries have women have to have full equality you can't have a set of rules", "their access to resources and the production of knowledge. And so there's so much exciting work that's going on, and I just want to say as a little bit of a sidebar when I came into Malaysia more than 30 years ago, I was all in theory and theology and it was like this sublime world but then the task of responding to live reality was such a huge challenge", "because then it meant that the ideal could be made applicable, but you must deal with the particulars that are happening on the ground in each of the states. So Musawa is a movement, it's not an organization and the reason is because you have to respond to the particulers in various nation-states however they're being manifest. Excellent thank you Dr. Amin. Thank you", "Thank you, Dr. Nicola for the question. I know that we have Anthony who raised his hand but i can't see Anthony here. I'm here, I'm sorry my connection got broken for a moment. Sorry again Dr. Wadud thank you very much, very clear presentation, very interesting and so to some extent what Nicola said, I want to build on that,", "perhaps also you mentioned in passing the sharia but i'm just thinking of the practicalities of um of the islamic sources they don't people don't just make scholars or ulama and so forth fukaha don't, just make decisions on the quran alone. They make it on the hadith and that's what produces you know fiqh and shariah and everything and in the hadif I would say that aren't there are many traditions like even mukkari", "like for example about the one about them with the majority of inhabitants of hell being women and or about you know nothing more after me I've not left anything more reflection, more harmful to men than women. There are many kind of hard attitudes to women in the hadith which would prevent in a practical sphere an Islamic feminism being realized in societies. I don't know if you're a Quran only person but perhaps you could just elaborate on that thank", "elaborate on that thank you uh yes i'm not a quran only person i am an expert in the quran because i had to make only one choice to get a phd however i work in relationship to the network of musawa and we do have experts on the hadith and we", "all of these. And in fact, I had a wonderful experience teaching in Indonesia about 12 years ago. I have a student who has now written what I consider to be the source text of the gender reading of Hadith. It's called Mubadila something-something in Bahasa but his name is Faqihuddin and it is possible also to do a gender reading", "There's some amazing work by also Dr. Zahia Jouiru from Tunisia, she was part of the construction of the new constitution for Tunisia after the revolution and she is one of our resource persons we just came off a workshop two weeks ago so all this stuff is fresh in my mind. So although it's not my area I work in relationship to people", "leave any ground unturned. Coincidentally, the citation of that particular hadith is really questionable on the lips of any person let alone pretending it belongs to the Prophet. However she also does an amazing analysis of that and some other interesting issues like what's the word inheritance which is you know sort of a combination of Quranic and", "fiqh reanalysis. So we don't leave any ground unturned, I have my own area of expertise which happens to be in the Quran and i work in communities with people who have experts in other areas so it's quite comprehensive. I do invite you to visit the Musawah website because it's a cornucopia of information very well resourced but also it actually lets", "ground and what the nation states have been able to make increments of progress or leaps and bounds like in Moudawina for Morocco, and how they are arguing with regard to these particular concerns. And then again, the relationship to the international human rights instruments.", "A question from Amal Hamami, who is also from Tunisia. Thank you professor for this thought provoking lecture and thank you my friend Malika for the moderation of the session so because the word inheritance is very sensitive for Tunisian women", "about the inheritance equality because we know that the principle or the objective of inheritance laws is to organize one of the aspects of the relation between citizens. And in our gender-biased world, this relation overburdened the weaker part. I mean here women. And usually state legislators should intervene", "this practice of passing legacy. However, in the Islamic countries inheritance law is deemed divine or legislative and an amenable rule. So here I would like to ask how could we establish a real equal inheritance rights based on Quran's verses and Islamic history knowing that inheritance law", "to religious rule. This law is revocable as compared to the irrevocable rules related to devotions in Quran and Islam, also because each time has its logic and women, the role of women, social and economic role of woman is not the same as before 15th century. Thank you. Yes all of the above. Dr Zahia Jouiro", "at, say, Duna University. And you should definitely look her up and her work. She's very well published. She is also a public figure so she has done quite a bit of work specifically on inheritance. What we have to do is get away from the notion that the inheritance laws as they are implemented in the context of the nation state or divine laws. They are not.", "understanding that literally ignores certain parts of the Quran in its conversation about the principle of inheritance, specifically going to women. So it's a very long and detailed argument. It's not my argument so I can't make it into a synopsis but suffice is to say that what Dr Zahia provides is a comprehensive reading", "might be and look at the places in the Quran where there are certain details as opposed to certain places in Quran, where there a certain ellipses or absences that people have filled in with a certain presumption of strict formula which she indicates by her analysis is not consistent application of the Quranic objective. So it's very elaborate but she's doing it and she's", "of the state and it is has a future impact in tunisia first actually because she is working with um certain parts of the um the state uh with regard to it so you know i'm sorry that i wish i could just you know do a quick thumbnail synopsis of it because it's beautiful and every time every time she does it i just think wow this is so amazing i'm so happy with it but it wasn't something that i created so i'm always going in secondary knowledge but it's um", "It's a very coherent, logical reading. And it does take into consideration what's happening at the state but you have to remember what I said earlier with regard to the state. The state is not implementing Islam. The State is implementing an interpretation of Islam and those interpretations of Islam have to do with sort of hegemonic neoconservative patriarchal interpretation of the sources like the Quran", "we are doing with Musawah is to try to break that and go back to the Quran, and have Islam become something that's adjudicated by the people for the people. And women are amongst those people. Thank you. Thank Amal for the question and thank you Dr. Ameena for this answer. So we'll get into Sally now for a question from the audience.", "Hello, thank you so much for your engaging talk Dr. Amina I have got two short questions my first question has to do with the difference between women's rights and feminism and i'm asking this question because in the 1997 documentary four women of Egypt about four women who are feminists", "in Egypt and with opposing religious, social and political views at the time. Some of them rejected the term feminism when interviewed and asked about it. And they said that they prefer to use the term women's rights. So I'm wondering if we still need to distinguish between these two terms or if it's okay to conflate them or just use feminism rather than a women's right?", "that's one thing. I mean, which one would be more accurate or is this difference just minimal? And then the other question has to do with women during the Middle Ages and their contributions, which are all over the place. How can we when we address these women and when we", "Or which term can we apply? Can we still apply Islamic feminism to their obvious presence and visible presence during the Middle Ages and their contributions, or what would be a good way of theorizing that knowing that we cannot easily foist modern theory on the Middle ages and so on. And that's a question I have on mind because", "and I work on medieval texts, and sometimes on women as well. Thank you so much. Thank for this interesting question. I especially like the part about the medieval. Let me get to the first part first. I'm only a feminist myself for about 10 or 11 years. And that is because I was bombarded with the hegemonic expressions of feminism which in my mind were antithetical to my faith journey", "Eventually, I used to say I'm pro-faith, pro-feminist. But then when this rubric of Islamic feminism came along, I really felt my niche. So let me go back and repeat what I said in my presentation in a shorter form. Islamic feminism takes to task not only the word feminism but also the word Islam. And if those two things are not understood as sort of a hybrid contribution to the discourses of both Islam and feminism,", "and feminism, then you won't understand it. You will always be talking about the numbers of women who still like myself in 12-13 years ago and many years before that absolutely refused to turn. So I'm very sympathetic to people who don't want to use the term and actually it's not something that I feel that everyone needs to attach themselves to in order to do the more important work", "I'm not even going to say, what did you call it? Women's right. Yeah, I'm now even gonna do that because it's also about the rights of men and that has to do with how it is we think about the difference between the words for male and female and the word gender. They're not the same thing but so the term", "The term is not important, but the term is also a consequence of a historical debate. And that historical debate did indeed start long time after the medieval period was this semi answer to your second part of the question. And there was a debate that necessitated a critical reread of all kinds of texts,", "and the like. And so it has a history, and within that history, it has evolved through different waves, and according to those waves, it arrived at a place where intersectionality is now a fundamental part of it. But that was not always a fundamental problem with it previously, especially as a Black woman.", "and culture, unfortunately it seemed to me that was even more difficult to dismantle the perspective. So let's get to the other part of the term, to dismantled the perspective that Islam or other religions are all religious for patriarchal. And that is because they would apply this principle feminism to everything, to medicine, to science, to philosophy, to theology but they would just", "would just sort of leave off the interrogation of the very notion of the divine that people are carrying in their heads and how that goes forward in application to culture. And, you know, in the case of Islam particularly to the law. So we really had to see what was the trajectory that went into each aspect of it. And Margot Badran has talked about three different waves of Muslim feminisms because Muslim feminism", "Muslim feminisms did not start off as Islamic feminisms, even though in my estimation it has evolved to that point. And as it has involved, not all feminist, not almost some feminists or Islamic feminists, some of them are secular feminists by choice. That's what they want. They want to keep the state out of the matter. And so what do we do? And I think that's an important part of your question. What do we", "not want to be identified with the term feminism. And that is, we permit them to identify and represent themselves. There's no requirement that you have to use the term Feminism. I use the first term Femimism now in the hybridity with which I've seen it evolve to the level of Islamic Feministm. And That's why I say what's in a name? It's much more important for me that all persons work towards the full rights and dignity of all other person.", "So, you know it doesn't matter what you call yourself.", "the time of the prophets. However, strategically when you're doing your research, you can use feminism as an adjective to describe and then you determine what the parameters of it is because for me, feminism is a radical notion that women are full human beings and for me the understanding of a full human being comes from the Quran. It's cosmology, eschatology,", "but you could not identify those persons who did things in the medieval period as feminists because they didn't identify themselves that way. So, that's a kind of interesting way that you might want to play around with the terms. Thank you so much. That was really helpful. This is Sally and I did have the same question that Sally asked actually the first question. So that was yeah, a good question.", "We have Caroline and then we have two questions in the chat function. So, Caroline do you want to go ahead and ask your question please? Just unmuting myself I hope you can hear me. Thank you Dr Amina so much for that important talk. One thing in particular that was interesting is something relates to something that i've been trying to work on with some difficulty which is", "which is the question of how one might talk of a reality of gender beyond gender as a construct, because it's so widely accepted that gender is a construct and if you want to posit a spiritual or ontological reality to gender I find one comes up against the question", "But also what interests me here, and you've already begun to touch on questions of this is that if in terms of gender as a reality there's a kind of dynamism and fluidity which also makes the question of language difficult. And I was very struck by the helpful diagram you had of Allah male and female but in the triangle", "you spoke of it as metaphoric. And I found that very interesting because for me, the whole question of trying to address a spiritual reality of gender leads me to think about more poetic forms of language and I wondered if you could say something about this? Yes, such a lovely thought actually.", "interested in when I talk about the Tahiti paradigm, in most cases have this lovely graphic that over time many wonderful people help me towards. But it is one to dismantle the othering and gender is but one part of that. However, I do go through the yin yang of the far eastern cosmologies because it is a dynamic expression", "interrelationship between the two. So for me, I actually in the new graphics, I have this happen on the line where you eventually understand that we are but a mirror of another person and that the identity of that person doesn't have to be fixed, for example, in a cisgender kind of constructed reality, right?", "in it. And like you, I definitely think that our languages prohibit us from at the same time expressing the binary without hegemony while at the time trying to make distinctions that happen in real people. So anything that you have along those lines if you wish to share with me later, I would love to read it because I find that the only way that I feel that I can do it right now is that I identify as non-binary", "non-binary. And that's because I am looking, right now I'm looking at the divine feminine in Islam and to look at the Divine names of Allah that are feminine and people sometimes their heads explode because we have so entrenched in a male God. And I think we're also entrenched into a bifurcation between male and female such that we can't see that all of us have masculine and all of", "of puritanical morality. So I think it's a beautiful notion, I'm not giving you an answer, I am giving you a response because I respect very much what the implications are and I don't have a fixed answer, but I'm still working it out. But I think you're absolutely right, I definitely agree that something we need to pursue further. Thank you. Thanks, that was really helpful.", "Dr. Nisansala Thilakarathne Muthunayake she, she is a professor at the University of New York and she's been working on this for over 20 years. So I think that we have hopefully more spaces for discussion beyond this conversation so hopefully Caroline and Dr Amina can speak after this discussion.", "We have two questions, if there is time. Could you share some comments on how you approach questions of race and hegemony in Islamic feminist methodology? Shall I ask the other question as well or do you prefer... Yes it's just one person go ahead. Okay sure. And the other one is how do you see Islamic feminism travels and carries meanings in other worlds languages outside of English speaking academic centers", "Yes, two interesting questions actually. First of all the discourses of Islamic communism pretends to be sort of the latest iteration of the affirmation of the need for intersectionality in other words it's not just gender there are other things that", "there are other things that form rubrics of oppression. And so therefore, it's supposed to include race and I as a black woman like to pretend that it does but the problems of those persons whose internalized white supremacy has not been challenged. So they may identify themselves with Islamic communism for certain reasons, but they fail to deal with that. And that's why for me, the rubric is about understanding self and others. So it includes those things.", "want to say this although you didn't ask it but i have to because this is where I'm going um you know in the most immediate phase of my uh research soul search and advocacy. And that is that for the most part, I haven't seen Islamic feminists deal constructively with matters of gender non-binary identities and LGBTQI so it is going to be sexuality as a part", "And that is simply anecdotal. I don't, you know, I haven't collected data in order to be able to support that. I also know and just had an interesting conversation about this as a Black American Muslim woman. I'd also note that the at least the black Muslim context in the United States is very conservative. And I have no clue when it's going to get at place where it's", "let alone this particular hybridity. So there might be things that will come into discussion, however, there has to be a discussion. In other words, it has to the consideration of race class gender sexuality sexual orientation ableism and the like in order to determine the places where there may be gaps in the expression of something just because they quote unquote coins", "to make Islamic feminism as opposed to Muslims who are feminists. Because if I say some of them are secular, some of the anti-religion, you know? So I think that I'm hopeful for an engaged conversation over time and I would be alert to any places where there is a fallacy in the expressions of Islamic feminism such a way they participate in white supremacy but so far", "far that discussion has not happened. And I don't know what will make that discussion happen, it's just that myself as a Black woman who is also an Islamic feminist, I'm intersectional in terms of my projections so i do bring certain things in but that doesn't mean I am the lead of all the discussions to such an extent that I can say that there will not occur this problem", "problem that I have seen has to do with non-heteronormative sexuality. So, that's a problem for me. The languages... To be frank the gender jihad in discourse is predominated by English and because it's my mother tongue it's not a challenge for me in that", "when you look at publications, discourses, conferences and the like. The most unifying language unfortunately is still English. And so what happens is when you go to other places certain words have to get inscribed into that language from their original English form as opposed to in translation just like the word democracy and the word gender. So feminism is going to have to enter in its own right", "And I'm sorry to say, I think that's the end of that. It's just that I live in Indonesia and they use both gender and feminism. That's just what they use because it's not in their language. And I've seen back in the day, I want to say back in a day but before the 21st century, you know, I actually went round and round with people about particularly the Arabic equivalent", "research has to do with Arabic and Arabic sources. And I realized, no it's not going to fit you're going to be pushing certain words. And those words maybe they'll gain efficacy another a an etymologist I don't know in terms of like all languages how they evolve but for the moment what i'm doing is seeing that where it's like democracy and words like gender have entered into those line which is", "those languages from their English formula. And it may be that feminism will have to stay in the English formula and just be sort of morphed into the equivalent pronunciation of it according to the other languages. Thank you, Kali and Asha once again for the brilliant questions. And thank you Dr Amina for this really expansive", "I do have a hand from Ahmed Abouzed, my colleague at the University of St. Andrews. Please do get ahead and ask your question. Just one second, Ahmed. I lost my pen. I'm sorry. I am only in a hotel room where could it possibly go? All right, I'm going to try to remember. I don't have a good memory because I didn't see it. And I will try to be brief as well. No you take your own time. Thank you very much Monica", "Thank you very much Monica and thank you very", "or large extent, it's a theoretical thing. And I don't know if this is considered to be enough to highlight about the practices especially for example in fiqh studies. I don' t know if you think about bringing the fiqhh next to Islamic or to Quranic study taking into consideration there are many advanced and progressive fiqhi like Abu Hanifa in the 8th century", "in the 8th century he was, he have a very progressive in today terms opinion about women and about women rule in life. In any public life and of course you mentioned Rabaa al-Adawiyya but what about also many example of feminists if we can also use the word of today to highlight the role of woman who work in fiqh especially from Ahlulbayt or from the Prophet", "the Prophet house. The other one about, I will echo what Sara talk about the medieval or Islamicate if you want a more probable concept for medieval Islamic. For example away from the Quranic study there is many unnotable sources like Al-Barrasari for example he have 12 volume called", "volume called Alam and Nubela, the notable people in the ninth century. And he dedicated one whole value for women, notable woman and notable figures in ninth century I count them it's 1200 name like a merchant and leading role in public life, economic life, social life so can...", "I don't know if you could take it in consideration for your future project. Can we extend or expand the Quranic study with fiqh and with Islamic sources from pre-modern area to understand more the phenomenon of Islamic feminism, or is a woman in Islamic context? Thank you very much, and I'm sorry for... Yes, I did several times talk about the wedding", "my particular area of specialty with a larger project called Islamic Feminism in Action, which has to do with the wedding between you know, the way fiqh is practiced on the ground. And I do want to have a caveat with regard to this, you know since it's coming up but I don't want to forget", "and about this volume with, you know one volume with women in 39 other volumes but don't let me forget those. Okay so the thing is that the rubric of shukr as it evolved over the first 300 years was developed with a particular notion that we cannot have Islam unless we can put Islam into practice and then how do we adjudicate practice? How do we understand", "for lack of a better, no I won't say Islamization. How do we understand what is Muslim practice? And obviously fiqh was developed using certain source texts amongst them the Quran, the Hadith and the Sunnah but the formulas that they used with regard to them were completely selected by the persons doing it. Obviously at thousands of schools of thought", "thought, when we consolidate down to the four Sunni schools and a number of Shiite schools, when you consolidate down, you know, to this number there's going to be amazing texts that will take the discourse further. But those were not the ones that were put into implementation to be carried over to the current century which is always our objective. Our objective is always where we are now. I love", "I love the fact that the Islamic intellectual tradition is rich and varied. I get lost in it all the time. I got lost in dealing with gender non-binary sexualities more so than I got loss in the Tafsir or the Sira. It was something about the discourses at that time, that was really fascinating. So there's amazing principles that are there. And in fact part of the work", "is to be able to draw from some of these principles, put into application in our modern context. Things like you know how do different schools adjudicate with regard to differences of opinions and how they might use an opinion from somewhere else? And so there is an active engagement with certain principles in order to push forward the agenda", "the agenda of gender equality. So let me go back. Gender equality in our current situation is the objective, and what happens is unfortunately the record is too biased towards men and their opinions to allow for a single volume amongst 40 volumes to make", "have made here, but sometimes it gets lost. And that is the received knowledge that is Islam not just revelation, but also the notion that the prophetic sunnah is a model. We have these received knowledge components and women were receivers of those knowledges as well. And so we have a much richer in number history", "as memorizers of some of these received knowledges, hadith even or the kinds of discourse that went into the jurisprudence. They were receivers of those they were not the producers so I don't care if it's 1200 names to be quite honest. Not a one of them left enough that we are following those footsteps right now however we are", "whether it comes from women or men. So yes, we are most definitely for me I consider reform Islam or progressive Islam to necessarily be a continuation of discourses that have already happened. A critical analytical reading of those discourses to challenge certain biases race class gender sexuality ableism and the like but at the same time not to throw the baby out with the bath.", "back. So I'm not talking about a severance from Islamic intellectual traditions, I am too immersed in it and personally I do love it so much however I'm definitely talking about the inner patriarchy and when i start talking about that you can't placate me with a number of 1200 women. I need to see gender equality in Abu Hanifa and unfortunately I don't see it. To give permission to lead Salat during Qarawiyah is not the same thing as understanding that", "understanding that no one ever took the right for me to perform as an imam away from me except for other men in interpretation. So I just think that, yes, there's a lot of jewels. There's a like it. We're sort of searching into this intellectual legacy to find certain gems, to sift them out and to put them into application. But we need to be putting them into", "Even when there were these spaces, these radical and gender-inclusive spaces or persons, they did not become the law of the land. They did not became the culture in which most Muslims have been acculturated so that we not only think there is a male god but we definitely think that the insan al kamer according to people like Al Ghazali it's basically going to be men and women can do really good jobs but they can't be insan al khamer", "So I mean, there's the reading of it does not mean that everything that everybody said before was bad or inefficient or whatever. It simply means that there was this tendency towards patriarchy by the way women participate in patriarchy as well. So I don't need a cisgendered female necessarily provides the model for gender liberation.", "But I don't think that we're saying what i'm saying is that because there were 1200 women, that somehow we don't have a voice. We didn't have the voice because that was silenced and that was for silence you know aggressively. And when we came through colonialism, the absence of that voice was encoded into the state. And now what we're trying to do is to dismantle that so that we can allow for the affirmation of all citizens as having the right to participate in any policy", "Dr. Amina Abubakar Akyembelea, I think that's a really important point and it's also the kind of policy that's going to be applied to them in the way that they achieve their moral excellence so I hope that helps. Dr. Doreen Amirahy, I love your Scott.", "questions and we have about 20 minutes to go through them. So I will ask Ola Kadoum first, to go here and then we'll hear from Laylah and I will also encourage Paula and Nermeen to ask their questions directly to Dr Amina if that is possible. If not i'm happy to ask those questions if we have time as well. Please go ahead Ola. Hi can you hear me okay? Yes. Okay brilliant. First of all thank", "Dr. Wood for that really illuminating talk, it's been thoroughly thought-provoking. I wondered whether you could talk about what vision you have for this reformist Islam going forward? Is it to have a reinterpreted Islamic law that takes into account women's lived experience in each locale so that we have tailored Islamic feminisms in each context or is there a universal Islamic feminism that would be applied", "I can imagine that there would be points of contention even between Islamic feminisms about various issues. So, would they have to be an Islamic feminist council in each country for example? How would this work operationally so as to be inclusive for women of all classes, sexualities, races and ages etc.? And a second if I may... I would love to do your second question but without my pen which I've looked literally under the table on the chair and even in my purse cannot find", "I cannot find, I will forget it. So can we come back to it and let me respond to that one first? Yeah. Is that okay Malika? Yeah go for it. Okay so first of all for me the word diversity is a form of beauty. I am not trying to universalize anything people do this all the time this is like okay so if we get the answer we're going to apply it to everybody absolutely positively 100% no", "uh how sorry i looked under the table and now i can't breathe um how it is that i came to understand this because i think it will help to debunk the notion that somehow what we're trying to do is to create a single vision of Islam and then make everybody do it when was started it identified and it still identifies itself as", "takes a lot of time because with all of our affiliates in so many other countries, people refer to the secretariat as if it is Musawa as opposed to the movement. So the movement for equality has to address the specific inequalities in each context. Otherwise again you presume that there is a single", "single formula that when you apply it to everybody, excuse me, everybody is going to receive the same result from it. And that's not true because of the dynamics of intersectionality. They're going to be different things that will be manifest that need to be approached. I do think Talheed is universal but literally other than Talheeed, I don't think anything else is. I think everything else is circumstantial and", "part of the human journey. We are meant to live our lives in very specific ways, at very specific times, very specific places so no there is not a goal that somehow we're going to come up with this perfect model and this perfect motto is going to be perfect for all times and all places. That's what got us in trouble in the first place. So now I'll take your second question. Thank you so much for", "clarification, thank you. And the second question was just out of interest with the discussions you've had with experts in the Quran and Hadith and Fiqh with women I'm just interested to know if you could share a bit about what aspects of Islamic feminism have been the most contentious amongst these discussions? And also I was very curious to know in terms of the lived experiences", "What were their issues, the issues that came up for them that were most important? Perhaps to debunk some of these more kind of European ideas of what Muslim women go through but can we actually hear from the women themselves. What were the issues they faced in their lives that were more problematic that they wanted addressing through an Islamic feminism? Yes so nobody said I want an Islamic Feminism to address this issue", "issue. So, you know my focus on Islamic feminism again it's not to make it into the beacon of light that everybody has to follow in order to get to Allah don't do that. You don't even have to be a feminist benefit from the kind of work that I'm talking about. You", "I meant more the kind of that you're talking about, the reciprocity and their quality. What were those dimensions that they wanted addressing? Yes so um i do currently live in Indonesia and Indonesia is the first place in the world to establish a Muslim women's ulama council to give fatwas and amongst", "a substantial rural population. And it is very common for there to be an exchange of, you know, a young girl to another household in order to manage things in life for people who are managing literally from the dirt that is from the soil. And so child marriage is one of the issues here is a bigger issue than, for example, Chukwutalak. Chukwatalak is a main issue", "The Musawa affiliates who have been working against this practice, have done so on the grounds of we need to re-examine the text and we need understand the implications of the particular application of those texts that's in play in our own context. Other places that we have been work with for example is the issue of polygamy", "So there is not a single issue that everyone has equally. And to stay flexible to that means that we have to work in such a way that lived reality comes to the front. Now, the method of understanding about lived realities is also very, what's the word I want to say? Methodical.", "We collect data with regard to what's actually happening on a country by country basis. And from that data, we juxtapose the results to what is the projection and the projection is supposed to be justice. It's also supposed to Islam but we're saying that in some ways there was a disconnect between the results of a particular system put into place", "or equality, or karama, dignity, or whatever. So it is necessary to do your work, to do research on your own context but also look at the change makers and policy enforcers. In other words who are your allies within those who have a certain amount of power as far", "certain, you know more liberal progressive, you politicians policymakers ministers and has also a part of strategically how you do that so you can identify for every country who that's going to be. It has to be done in the country by country basis. And then of course the element of knowledge production which includes this interrogative reading of Islamic sources but the purpose of the reading is that context. The purpose", "who bring it to bear on the data collected with regard to their realities, to the attention of the jurors, the judges and the lawyers in the Sharia courts and the like. And the politicians who have some stake in it or who are taking a certain position because they think they will win the Muslim vote if it's not a Muslim majority context. So there is a dynamic relationship that goes on between real actors on the ground but the principal actor has to be", "to be the women themselves and their reality. So, you know, it's not a cut in pace. It's really dynamic. And I hope it maintains its dynamism for the rest of eternity because losing that dynamism to me was something that was a problem after the colonial period where we sort of calcified Islam into this thing that couldn't stretch and bend and flow freely in order", "order to address the challenges that come up in our day, like coronavirus or something. So I hope you can understand that it is not meant to establish this new worldview, this new world order and then everybody has to follow that word order from now until eternity. I just literally cannot believe that period. So, I don't know how to defend it because it's so far from my vision except to give", "in application in very specific places. Thank you so much, that was absolutely brilliant thank you. Thank You Ola and thank you Dr Amina we have a question from Layla and then if we have time we're going to go to more questions but we'll see how it goes Layla go ahead please. Salam alaikum and thank-you so much for your rich talk Dr Aminah I have a", "law and women within the framework of brisma's theme this year so when you mentioned steed all you emphasize the importance of lived experiences and the traditional challenges of implementing sida in muslim countries however i'm wondering from a decolonial perspective whether we also approach international law epistemologically as well so how do", "of your talk and work has been focused on the deconstructing apparent patriarchal interpretations i guess i'm wondering if you're also concerned with deconstructed uocentrism in international law and i pose this question because what i see from my own research is that one of the biggest issues with those who oppose seda is the fact that it's based on a world order", "is not tackled aren't you risking creating more opposition in muslim local context than necessary and consequently marginalizing the impact of your work in muslin contract in muslam contexts so i guess it's related to the question of uh as well how you harmonize the contextualism that you just emphasized with so-called universal rights in international law and i guess my question is also related to nadmina best this question in the chat thank you so much", "Thank you so much. Yes, thank you very much for this question. Actually, this is the trajectory that I was always on and I used to always make references to it because the whole notion of the UN Declaration of Human Rights is a construct. It came into existence in the middle of the 20th century in reaction to certain historical and political locations with regard to the global north. And so it's not in this paper for some reason. So never mind.", "So never mind, I'm just going to jump right in. With the exception of very few countries, most countries nation states have ratified CEDAW. So that's the only way that we go into it. We do not go into as a way to affirm that the United Nations is in fact universal, it's not and that's a short answer. I don't need to elaborate. It simply is not. And again, I am not gonna elaborate", "You need to think strategically with regard to, I don't know where you're living but if you are living in one of those countries that are implementing the so-called Islamic law and on the basis of that law they are denying certain citizenship rights to women in the name of Islam. And then they project those even when they have signed and ratified CEDAW to say well we can't do that because that's not Islam. The methodology that we are using is a methodology", "when the state exploits certain paradigms and definitions of Islam that are detrimental to women. We are not fixing the UN. It's a job that definitely needs to happen, but it's not the job we're taking up. We take up implementation of laws when the State has a constitution and is a signatory and ratifier of CEDAW. That's it.", "The problem with CEDAW, which is not the problem that you mentioned because of course it's beyond the scope of looking at sort of the epistemological limitations of the constructions of human in the context of the whole UN rubric, which", "the ways in which, you know, the dominant construction of the whole human rights rubric is based on the global north. You know I could go there but that's not going to save the child marriage so that's where we are. We come in on the basis of very specific needs and a very specific country and that country has ratified CEDAW which also is appendaged with their ratification", "ratification of the rights of the child. Some of the places where people have been challenging the child marriage rubric has been with regard to family and family law, but most of them have been successful because they have also ratified the UN Declaration of the Rights of the Child. They say it's not in the child's best interest so you need to move away from the abstract which is a wonderful conversation needs to be had over and", "The only place where I'm abstract is with regard to theology. And because I love that, it is my honor to have had this relationship with both Sisters in Islam and the Musawwam movement from the beginning of both of them, because it takes me out of my head because the whole notion of deconstruction is that you just keep deconstructing, you never go anywhere.", "the grounds of the reconstruction with regard to this trajectory is how do we establish just and equitable laws for every citizen in the context of today's reality, which is the nation state. As far as epistemology goes, don't let me get started on my complaints with regard", "states and their capacity to address the ways in which certain policies disenfranchise certain members of their citizenship that we're working. We're not working to dismantle the UN, it's a great job, I welcome you to do it, I will support you in doing it, but I am interested in things like the rights of the child or women who are abandoned because of certain notions of polygamy and the big one, of course, domestic violence.", "violence. So let's go back to the issues just for my talk, and then we'll have another talk where we can talk about all of the shortcomings of the United Nations which is in fact a construction of the global north. Thank you Dr. Amina and thank you Laila I thought it was a brilliant question and really enriching response. I do have a question from Nermeen which was very similar to what Lailah asked", "Nermeen and she's happy with the question so we'll just skip that I have one final question from Paula who is also a member of the prismas council she said thanks again for this enriching talk i would like to ask if you could please address queer Islamic cosmology epistemology as a way to expand space for non-binary people thank you yes let me just check my clock because", "because I have to think how long this is ever going to be on here. And this is not tongue in cheek, actually. The end of my paper goes into more detail with regard to it because of methodologies of reading the Quran and the way in which we interpret the story and what that says, particularly what it says to lay Muslims in the context of culture and certain types of sentiment. But for me basically... Well first of all,", "with other queer activists and scholars. So, you know a lot of the research is not my own I'm indebted to work that's been done by others before me but I did have this opportunity to do this three-year research where I decided I wanted to examine first Quranic language tafsir about the Quran and the Quranic Language then Sira and Hadith", "And then the last part was but I limited to the first 500 years in order to see what the foundational discourses was because again, the development of the nation state, the imposition of colonialism and all of that our laws have been morphed. And they have not been morph into the best results. But the interesting thing is that for me when I did the research by name the project gender diversity and human dignity", "dignity. And that meant that I went into the Qur'an, particularly with a perspective and that perspective was that lakad qaramna bani adam, I've given Qarama or dignity to all the sons and daughters of the first human and that any place where any of the interpreters", "and justify what I would consider to be homophobic, another phobic types of articulations in the name of interpretation. And like, I would considered them to have strayed away from this basic fundamental principle. So that was where I started. Where I ended up however which I did talk about you know in this paper which is going to be published on the online journal called religion so if anybody wants", "to track it down, and should be there soon. Where I ended up instead was with a consideration that the emphasis that are placed on qa'ti verses, that is definitive statements made in the Qur'an of which they are not that many especially for the purpose of law, they're less than 100 depending on who's doing the counting but there's a couple hundred if you say by spirit or implication. But there was this predominance", "of reading of Qati verses is if everything had a solution. And the most wonderful thing that came out of doing the Qur'anic research with regard to the story of Lut, is that there are more questions that you come out of that story with than there are answers. And all of a sudden it occurred to me that it is in fact this liminal space that provides us with the opportunity for what's being called by many as a queer reading and that embracing the liminals", "the liminal space, especially by aligning it with the necessity. In other words, it's a Quranic mandate that is our entire teleology we are created for the purpose of agency with Karama, with dignity, um that any place where there is uh a violation of uh that dignity to me is um is improper let me just use a non", "a non-Islamic or type term, is improper. And instead we're trying to construct another understanding of the dignity of humanity even through places in the Quranic discourse which are not clear with regard to who's doing what and what exactly they're doing and what is the problem? Why is it that the wife of Lut", "just mentioned more times than these men who are raping other men. There are more questions to come out of it and all of a sudden, I found a certain beauty in the ambiguous. If you categorize seven major passages, I think there's like 30 some odd places where loot might be mentioned but the major passages that actually talk about what was going on", "that because of these verses, that homosexuality is prohibited in Islam. I don't even know where they get it. First of all there's no word homosexuality, that's a new term but secondly, you know, homosexuality has to do with a whole lot of different possibilities including two women and that didn't even make it into Islamic law for a long time so there are so many more questions that come out of this. Actually it became the joy of the investigation for me because I feel like personally", "have as definitive an answer, as I felt like I was able to conclude working with the Qur'an just on gender within this sort of cisgender heteronormative dominant rubric of it. And so we are going back to the drawing board and I'll tell you, I'll let you in on a little secret because this is where I'm going next with it as much as I can. And that is to say that as we all live under the nation state and in the nation-state there", "of there is a qualification known as citizen and people can be like me. I'm an expat, you know? I have a visa for living if I want to the rest of my life in Indonesia. Well it's on an annual basis but I'm just saying that you have certain rights that the fulfillment of your akram or your dignity as a human being is dependent upon the state", "Every child is supposed to have certain rights and those rights are supposed to follow them into their adulthood. However, just like with the gender jihad we have been sidestepping those rights for people who are non-binary LBGTQI. And that means that we can go back to the state in terms of reconstructing the ways in which it fulfills the notion of Karama while the notion", "It's implementation in the context of law and culture is going to be based on state. Again, we have to be very specific. So that's where it is that I want to see things happen in future. And that is a challenge to the state when it encodes certain practices supposedly in the name of Islam but the end result is that they actually cause visible harm to people who do not follow the heterosexual dominant model.", "So it is a lot of exciting possibilities and a lot amazing work. I did mention that I'm trying to start an international program on queer Islamic studies in theology, so please keep me in your prayers because I really want to help establish this trajectory to make an affirmation of the live realities for queer Muslims. Thank you. Thank You Dr Amina Wadud. We're ending just now.", "Thank you so much for this enriching talk. And just judging by the chat comments, which we don't have that much time to go through, I'm sure we all learned something new today and have been challenged in some ways. So thank you for your time and such a clear, comprehensive and critical work. And thanks to all colleagues as well for being with us and sticking beyond the allocated time. Thank you for all your brilliant questions", "brilliant questions and we'll hopefully see many of you later in the PRISMUS sessions. Thank you once again, and do take care and have a- Thank you so much....pastions later on." ]
amina_wadud/Dr_ Amina Wadud_ _Gender Justice _ Muslim_ Part 1 _dqFK0zp4ntE&pp=ygURQW1pbmEgV2FkdWQgaXNsYW3SBwkJvQCDtaTen9Q%3D_1742939185.opus	[ "It's my pleasure to be able to introduce Dr. Amina Wadud. And Dr. Aamna Wadu is a professor emeritus of Islamic studies and currently visiting scholar at the Starr King School for the Ministry in Berkeley, California. She is a quintessential", "quintessential scholar activist, pressing the boundaries of gendered exclusions and hierarchies in religion, the academy, and society, provoking deeper more creative possibilities for thought and practice. She's the author of Quran and Woman Rereading the Sacred Text from a Woman's Perspective", "and Inside the Gender Jihad, Women's Reform in Islam. This work that she has done not only in these books but in many, many articles has been path-breaking. It is a work that includes an exhaustive reinterpretation of the Quran that is gender inclusive.", "where this kind of scholarship is not only an intellectual enterprise, though it is indeed and amazing intellectual contribution to religious thought. She does this work as a way of demonstrating how Quranic hermeneutics that is inclusive of female experiences", "in Islamic thought and contribute toward the achievement of that justice in Islamic practice. As Hiba Abu Ghidiri writes, quote,", "this new hermeneutical model, Wadud is essentially expanding and moving beyond an intellectual legacy that dates back 1400 years.\" In addition to her scholarly work, um, that in addition to the scholarly work is known for the ways in which it beautifully interweaves scholarly ideas with personal reflections on what", "to live out her Muslim faith. As she writes, quote in the Quran and Woman, she writes quote, mercifully,", "In Islam, a female person was intended to be primordially cosmologically, eschologically spiritually and morally a full human being equal to all who accepted Allah as Lord Muhammad as prophet and Islam as din.\"", "Dr. Wadud is one of the 500 most influential Muslims, but this hardly captures the insistent and generative way in which she combines scholarship and activism.", "a mixed gender congregation in Friday prayer in New York in 2005, an event that sparked national and international attention. Dr. Wadud has tirelessly worked for and with grassroots Muslim women all over the globe having spent significant amount of time in Malaysia and South Africa working", "She's consulted in over 40 countries with organizations and given public lectures. She has been a scholar and an activist in the ways in which she has engaged the academy itself, giving its discourse on gender in Islam.", "of Islam and gender issues, and candidly described in her writings the ways in which she's been treated as a token Muslim scholar. I take this opportunity to offer my gratitude to you for your path-breaking work in religion and society and the academy that has really blazed trails for all of us here. It is my honor", "brilliant scholar activist Dr. Amina Wadu", "whose grace I seek in this and all other matters. I want to thank you for coming out on Saturday morning, and thank Jennifer for the invitation, and Tracy for of course saying things that no human being could possibly walk behind and still be a human being. But I'm going to try to do that anyway. What I'm gonna share with you is something that actually I can stand here", "really is based on my life work and my soul interests. But I decided sometime between prayer this morning and breakfast that I would instead reduce a presentation that I had made on the same topic in Sydney, Australia earlier this year. And there's reasons for me doing it. The basic reason is it will allow", "regarding this issue. And my goal, you'll see ahead of the game, is to talk about three major trends in fact I would say that these were sort of the bracketing characteristics of Muslim women's reform today and they're going to be secular Islamic feminism or secular Muslim feminist Islamist, sort of neo-conservative political Islam motivated gender agenda", "Islamic feminism and obviously I'm using these other two in order to be able to cast a kind of bracket around Islamic feminism, and to define these areas. There are obviously nuances and other subgroups and divisions that we could talk about but I think if you can understand these three in their historical and ideological evolution it would be much easier to then engage all the other kinds of divisions that are there.", "So, in the spirit of post-modernism I began with my location. I worked on gender issues that would lead to Islamic feminism before it had a name. However, I never lost sight of my aim to make certain articulations within the faith or from a faith perspective. Let me just make sure that I can not look at the mic at any point. Just bring myself as close to it as possible.", "Born in the West to Christian parents, my sojourn in Islam had nothing to do with Western feminist movements because they tended to marginalize women of color and poor women. I was motivated by my spiritual yearnings then and now. From my religion at birth, Christianity, I take certain ideas which remain true", "is the idea that God is love. So crucial, in fact, I chose the name Wadood an attribute of God one of her 99 names in Arabic that means all loving Second, I was born into the civil rights movement in the United States My preacher father took me to the March on Washington with Dr. Reverend Martin Luther King when I was 11 years old", "ideas of God and the fight against oppression no matter what form oppression might manifest itself in. By the time I entered college, I also accepted the global diversity in perceptions of and experiences with the sacred—what the Abrahamic traditions refer to as God. I was also more attuned to the diversity of work done by people who profess some kind", "in their work or actions relative to their perceptions of the divine mandate as part of the Divine Command. Not long after I entered college, I became a practicing Buddhist. From Buddhism, I carry away two ideas that are still paramount to my gender jihad. Meditation reminds us to breathe in the presence of the sacred reality all the time. To focus our energies honestly and individually towards", "towards that which is imminent in all creation, is part of our connection to all things in the creation, to each other as well as to the creator of the universe. Secondly because Buddhism is a non-theist tradition celebrating the sacred it was more imperative for me to consider ways in which ideas about the sacred or words articulated and developed into theologies can just as easily become webs", "leaving us lost in the discussion about the ultimate. It behooves us then to be cognizant of what we mean and what another person might mean when we assume that we are talking about the same thing just because we use the same word, God. Indeed, God is bigger than any discourse, acts in ways not favorable to human beings at all, and yet is intimately connected to each human being. Closer than your own jugular vein, Lebron says.", "even if any one human being chooses to remain unresponsive to that living presence or reality. This benevolence, then, is not meant to offend or impose upon people who do not believe in God. It is nevertheless important for me to say because it bears heavily upon my location.\" This essay is focused on the theological framework of the debates about women's empowerment in the context of Islam today.", "about Islam and Muslims until we are clear what we mean by Islam. To properly discuss the status of Muslim women, we need to interrogate the meaning of the word Islam. People involved with the struggle for or against Islamic reform often operate on a presumption that what is meant when the word islam is used is both well known and agreed upon. When someone says, for example, Islam prohibits homosexuality", "the sources of these abstractions is frequently without clear, consistent evidence and consensus. In other words people derive what they mean by Islam from a large range of sources and as such come up with conflicting ideas about the phenomena known as Islam. Is Islam what the sources say? What Muslims do or just my personal relationship", "The interim contribution to the women's movement, to internal and international faiths about what is Islam around the turn of the century was to render a distinction between Muslim cultures and Islamic primary sources. The Quran, established Sunnah or practices of the Prophet, authentic Hadith or his statements, and even Islamic law. Despite this distinction, what any Muslim might do in some higher order or system of Islamic thought as more common parlance", "parlance, it is confounding to know how often normative Islam is still taken to be according to the most conservative definitions to measure the increments of progress against these neoconservative norms or expectations. I don't know how many years for example it was that I used to say my own exegesis", "to reify patriarchal interpretation. It is important both to assert new ideas, analysis and critiques in order to contest the authority and purview of conservativism by the act of asserting new definitions but at some point we must stick to them and integrate them into the range of normativity. How will Islam ever progress when most of the progressives are stuck in these static notions about normative Islam? The problem with the epistemological limitations", "to move forward within Islam. Such conservative and static understandings and norms do not allow for changes to occur unless these changes are seen as radical alternatives, if not altogether impossible. This is crucial in the area of gender reform. In the Quran, the words Islam and Muslim are used with regard to an historical community that evolved from the time of the Prophet Muhammad, upon whom be peace,", "regard to a state or posture vis-a-vis creation and the Creator, the posture of conscientious surrender. When the Quran refers to all of nature as Muslim then all of creation is harmonious following a certain order and balance between its constituent parts. This is true for so much around us on a day-to-day basis but we most likely take that for granted", "most human beings only notice when there are catastrophes related to the regular aspects of nature and our environment, like snow before trick or treating. The more expansive the possibilities of what we understand as critical to a definition of Islam, the more potential there is for growth and progress such that changes will still reflect that whole. It is critical to establish then a working and authoritative definition", "of Islam in order to actively discuss Muslim women's reform today. I will build upon the definition of Islam encapsulated by its most basic and fundamental principle called Tawhid. There is no Islam without Tawhi. At one level, this refers to the nature of God as One and affirms monotheistic theology.", "a passive verbal root form which indicates a kind of dynamism. The making of one fragment, the making of from fragments or pieces, or the unification of the many into a unity. The principle of Tawhid mandates a specific kind relationship between human beings which must then be adjudicated within the context of our current global realities. I'll come back to this a little bit later. As stipulated in the Quran, Islam's primary sacred text", "sacred text, the role of women in Islam is to be khalifa on the earth. A moral agent of Allah within the sacred order of balance and harmony in the universe. This teleology is confirmed by the Quranic passage, indeed I will create on the Earth an agent. Woman was not created as a bi-product, helpmate or second class citizen of man. Furthermore her agency", "Therefore her agency is in a direct relationship to God, unmitigated by men, men's agency or bi-family. This agency is to be manifest by actions that are on the creation, standing up for justice and gender equality, working to reform asymmetrical gender policies and toppling tyrannical practices, policies, epistemologies and governments are all part of the agency in the divine human relationship.", "This is mandated by Allah and established by the Prophetic Sunnah. Coincidentally, this is the same as the role for men in Islam. Women are human. They do not depend upon men for their humanity. It is given to them by Allah. While women have always been a part of the community expected to confirm the development of Islam within that community,", "in establishing the fundamental paradigmatic basis of what Islam means. As the Muslim empire spread geographically and politically, women and men were unaware of a significance that participation or contributions to that fundamental canon of Islam would have effect in how that would affect in future. Now I'm not trying to say there's some kind of misogynist plot but at some point within Islamic tradition", "tradition, precedent became a certain aspect of authority and legitimacy. That is whatever happened before makes it legitimate and gives it some kind of authority. And since women were outside of that main contribution the idea of precedence then runs into the problem that we look back over", "historical past, especially the intellectual development. We don't have the same record with regard to women's voices and all of a sudden the fact that their voices weren't there before people will then say well you know you can't have your voices today in effect they'll call the voice aura which is a word that means literally the genitalia but means prohibited in public space and so when women began to come forward in order to try to articulate their perspective on the issues", "locked into the grid of the authority of precedent because it didn't happen before, which is the same thing they say about women leading to prayer. Well, it didn' t happen before therefore it can't happen now. So the principle of precedent as an authority came into being and I thought this was always very interesting because it's sort of like Muslims were living their lives and they were engaged in relationships with family and community and belief in God", "And it's sort of like men say, well you know family is really important and we'd really like you to be available for us for sex and take care of the kids. So don't worry about the paradigmatic stuff. We'll take care that for everybody. And then a hundred, six-hundred thousand years later they said oh but you weren't there so you can't say anything now. This is something I think has been very interesting in which President Ezefari has worked in our community", "our community. Today we participate fully in establishing new canons, constructing new traditions as a corrective of the asymmetry between women and men in Muslim communities historically. However, we do not go about this without some contention between our voices, our perspectives, our methods, and our objectives. This is natural and inevitable for the most part. So let's look a little bit at the history", "The prevalence of patriarchal culture always had at least some minority advocates against it. And whenever I start talking about the movements today, people want to refer back to one or two of these examples from our past,, one of the prophet's wives, or Aisha. And the idea that you have one or", "the whole PPR poll thrust is a little problematic in my mind, but it's not to ignore that there were these voices. However, the evidence then of certain exceptional voices against gender inequality is not really my concern. Rather, the concern is to look at mass movements of women against gender status quo especially to challenge injustices. It makes little difference if the injustice was established by intent", "by intent or the accident of discrimination. Muslim women's movements are coincidentally connected seamlessly to certain global developments. Chief among these developments was a rise and fall of colonialism. It should go without saying that the goal of colonialism was never to liberate the women, or men in the conquered regions. Nevertheless when the revolutions against colonialism began", "women participated as well as men to end the empire. Eventually, we were all ushered into a uniform establishment of the nation state for good or for ill. Unfortunately, women were not equal beneficiaries of the spoils of the new nationalist regimes. This is the place where the modern Muslim movement began in earnest. Women's organizations were primarily wings of larger nationalist organizations", "But Margaret Weatherine points out, women had a brutal awakening when it became clear that liberal men were not prepared to implement their promises to integrate women into public life after nominal political independence. End quote. At this point, it was necessary for women to organize amongst themselves towards gender specific goals for political, social economic and legal rights. In the 19th century global awareness recognizing your own", "recognizing your own local, national or regional realities of day-to-day life combined with awareness of realities unlike your own day to day reality in other regions and circumstances in the world. Global awareness is a good force towards pluralism. Our human reality today cannot exist without this sense of pluralism,", "as equal to oneself. Our present time is not the only time, our place not the one place, our customs not the ony customs, our world view not the own world view. These basic elements of pluralism become essential for the global Muslim women's movement. The first voices of Muslim women collectively to protest the status quo were from well educated often well traveled and well-to-do", "to do. They had seen that the world is not uniform, they experienced cultural possibilities and a world of ideas that challenged the entrenched ideas being promoted as sacred and unchangeable or as necessary for cultural identity and authenticity. Because of their own advancement in education, they were aware of the possibility of women's participation outside the clustered realm of the home. They began", "cultures and communities. They stood up as Muslim women, and as citizens of their own nation states. Basic issues like health, reproduction, education were coupled with more complex issues of politics and economics. A nation state needs citizens of intellectual competence who utilize national resources to help towards the development of that nation state. Reproduction has been mostly regarded as inevitable so with", "from older forms of production to national productivity. If the labor of women and children could be called towards national productivity, then so be it. If women were not given the opportunity to develop through universal education for example they would never be able to fulfill their role as citizens. They will not be able assist with the development and independence of the nation state and its objective to stand alongside other nation states.", "So in the first wave of Muslim women, of the Muslim Women's Movement there was a thrust against the entrenched ideas about gender apartheid and women's restriction in the public space. After this First Wave movement, the clarity of the secular feminist articulations of Muslim woman were surmised vis-a-vis the goals and methods of the women's movement itself.", "feminist movement requires the removal of religion from the debates over rights. It is premised upon the idea that religions are too patriarchal for redemption, or that religion in this case Islam, is the cause of women's oppression. Whether religion is then relegated to a personal or emotional response or altogether irrelevant depends on the religiosity of the person speaking. Deference is given unequivocally", "agenda for gender reform. The adoption of the term universal in these instruments might go unchallenged or at least be deemed more acceptable than any usage of this term. Quote, although universalism as it exists today is generally criticized for its implicit ethnocentrism and leaning toward so-called Western values, most women nevertheless recognize", "principle of and work towards a new definition of universality in human rights.\" End quote. It is the use of Islam as a universal which is most problematic. Quote, they do not see religious debate as main strategy for social change. At the time of establishment of nation state in the context of Muslim majority countries, the crucial question of the role of religion in the political process led to two opposing sides. On one side those who advocate for separation of the state from religions", "from religions were soon to be recognized as secular and Western. The term secular would morph then, quote, the secular's outlook is crucial...the secular's out look is basically one that starts by marginalizing God or sometimes even announcing his death placing the human at the center of the universe and has its logo. This is by the way a quotation from an Islamist. Through gradual stages of the Muslim secularists was born in the 19th", "Some of the Muslim women who opted away from religion also identified as feminist to the exclusion of their identities as Muslims. They didn't say secular at that time, but this is how it morphed into something else. This would be most coherently expressed in response to the rise of an outspoken public voice in favor of Islam, the Islamist movement. Surely the nation-state model did not solve all problems and surely", "and surely it created new ones. Throwing off the shackles of colonialism put every aspect of the colonialist worldview into question. The most uniform response to problems related to the post-colonial Muslim context was the cry for a return to the glorious past of the Islamic empire with the Islam is the solution. A new development also emerged in the Muslim women's movement.", "does indeed have an impressive ideological and political legacy. Since this preceded the rise and invasion of the colonists, then it must indeed be superior offering the solution to all the problems faced by Muslims. That is if we could go back to the glory of Islam. The simple reality of any movement backwards as a solution for the present let alone the future should", "enough against taking this path uncritically. It should have given some indication of the problems that arise, that would arise for this perspective to handle the host colonial dilemma, the rise of a nation state and the movement towards radical global pluralism. It did not. The merit of the call to return to Islam was both authentic and authoritative. Consequently all other world views were not only seen as alien but also seen", "also seen as counterproductive to the Muslim social order if not outright un-Islamic. The Iranian revolution with the force of the people to remove not only the Shah but also the negative alliances with Western hegemony was replaced by national, cultural and religious authenticity. This was a high point of the Islamist movement. It created even more fervor in the agendas of Islamists" ]
amina_wadud/Dr_ Amina Wadud_ _Gender Justice _ Muslim_ Part 2 _d5FCdrXCgJo&pp=ygURQW1pbmEgV2FkdWQgaXNsYW0%3D_1742948464.opus	[ "Islamism is an Islamic movement that seeks cultural differentiation from the West and reconnection with the pre-colonial symbolic universe. And Islamism a term used by outsiders to denote a strand of activity which they think justifies their misconception of Islam as something rigid, immobile or mere tribal affiliation.", "The Islamist agenda then mandates a return to a perfect Islam of the medieval period, sometimes erroneously asserted as the time of the Prophet. The intent is to take the spirit of Islam and organize these within the politics of a new world order.", "truth of the founders of Islam. In this they found themselves oddly in agreement with the orientalists, they came to be suspicious of many traditions of Islamic thought and practice that had developed throughout time.\" The islamist agenda is encapsulated within a cry for the return to Sharia. And this is pretty complex. First of all, Sharia which is often translated as Islamic law, there was", "There was no Sharia at the time of the Prophet. He didn't espouse or construct any particular manhatt or school of law, and the term is not even found in Quranic revelation. Although the Islamist thesis that Islam is religion in state and consequently necessary requires the application of Sharia, it does not reflect historical reality.", "to secular ideas and authoritarian regimes. Second, the crime from the return to Sharia at the level of the masses is generally reductionist collapsing the universal principles of Sharia with the juridical methods and mechanisms of implementation known as Fik or the codes that were produced for Mekhtik. The root definition of Shariah is the path that leads to water and water is of course", "universal, divine, sublime and an ideal. The goal of that ideal in society is called its objective and that is justice so the mafasit of Sharia is justice. A more coherent definition of Islamic law that Islamists are hoping to achieve is actually they're trying to achieve fiqh", "history for understanding the universal of Sharia. To distinguish between these two is crucial for debunking the claim that somehow if Muslim nation states were to establish Islamic law, then all problems would be solved. Modern Islamic thinkers have been articulating this distinction. The distinction between filth which is the understanding of Shariah and shariah which is sort", "way is not the law, it's not a code that says strike them six times. It's not you know a formula that says we can't eat pork. It is something much more sacred and much more sublime and much elusive. And so when Muslims say to return to Islamic Law and they use the word Sharia what they actually mean is we want to return", "However, toggling between the universal intent of Sharia and the human necessarily fallible subject to change mechanisms of implementation or FIPP, the Islamist agenda takes license in condemning those who criticize their goals. While they say that their goal is to implement immutable divine order, they are justified to say that any who rallies against this irrefutable idea are not believers.", "through the procedural means of implementation, and that is fiqh which has always been subject to debate in contestation. Fourth, the existence of four established schools of thought or mudahibs amongst the Sunni Muslims and at least one major school or madhab amongst the Shias indicate that there is no uniformity. In practice there is", "Islamic laws and the means for deriving these in today's context can only be within the context of operation of a nation state. In the nation state, all policies are subject to public debate including from non-Muslims no matter if any one citizen or group of citizens are inspired by their understandings of Islam or not. Implementation", "and people disagree. Finally, the distinction should be made between what is an operation in the past and what can be an operation today, this is a critical point. It must be taken up against those who have the power to enforce their understandings or their fit of what is Islamic Sharia. When this power is given to the state then all state institutions", "remain a matter of personal faith and individual consciousness for the believer. Belief itself is lost because learning through various means, then applying it honestly, is the foundation of faith. What should be learned ethically could be replaced by coercive power of the state.\" Abdullahi al-Nayyim says, Sharia principles cannot be enacted and enforced by the state as public law and public policy solely on the grounds that they are believed to", "of Sharia. If such an enforcement is attempted, the outcome will necessarily be the political will of the state and not the Islamic law of Islam. The fact that ruling elites sometimes make claims to legitimize their control over the state in the name of Islam does not mean they are true.\" These reductionist paradigms of return to Sharia are even more critical for women because", "pre-modern Muslim personal status law or family law. Against the claim that Muslim personal law was built upon the maqas, and again the objective of Sharia which is justice, the idea of justice at...the idea of justic e relative to the family structure that was in existence at the time of the development of Ba'ath Fiqh which was unconditionally patriarchal. In", "extended families was the norm. Even the marriage contract, on one hand we like to talk about that the marriage in Islam is not a sacrament it's a contract but that contract was a contract of sale in the past. It was not a contract, a reciprocal contract between two peoples. Women who follow the Islamist agenda promote the significance of the sanctity", "family, or interrogating whether living families are fulfilling those ideals so often deemed as family values. Accepting the Islamist agenda because its goal is defined as Islam goes a long way to rally others in support. It has the flavor of authenticity. It stands in stark opposition to importation and imperialism of the West. It", "However, when the only alternative was one espoused by more secular Muslim women who disavowed Islam as a solution or rather see it as a problem. By the end of the 20th century believing Muslim women may have felt there was no better choice than the Islamist one. Nevertheless, one shortcoming of the Islamists agenda is its inability to articulate and implement", "the global dynamics of the nation state and the radical pluralism not only between Muslims and non-Muslims, but amongst Muslims themselves. It relies upon a static monolith, monolithic and untenable idea of the Muslim person incompatible with today's notion of the citizen. A citizen is motivated by and restrained mostly", "greatest opportunity for well-being. In the absence of this, the Islamist agenda will defer to some post life eschatology or coercion. Quote, culturalist Islamism assumes a dead culture, a culture impenetrable to other cultures, to historical developments and unchangeable over time that bears no resemblance to the stunning diversity of social reality, end quote. The seeds", "the third voice in Islamic gender reform were already being planted while secular feminists and Islamist who are battling it out for whose voice was most beneficial to the cause of Muslim women's well-being, liberation, autonomy and citizenship. A meeting was called between these contended voices when I was at Beijing Congress for Women 1995. The Islamists who were present applauded the wisdom behind Islam's position and the more aggressive", "and certainly new alliance with the UN agenda, secular Muslim feminists refused to yield ground to these backward thinking participants. The meeting turned into chaos. It was impossible to find any common ground. For some reason each side also felt that more was at stake to preserve their individual perspectives than to find some united agenda for Muslim women who were present and the women they claimed to represent. I by the way went off to see the Koreans dance because I don't like chaos so I didn't.", "To further clarify the opposing positions, let us look at the larger context of the Beijing meetings which was to discuss the act of MAF and implementation of CETO. This is another UN human rights document with the intent of gathering global signatories from all nation states and a larger goal to address gross inequalities between women and men citizens in the world. They are considered universal", "and not subject to individual states. If there is any conflict, and such conflict is inevitable, then women especially Muslim women who hope to change growth social and cultural injustices in the context of Muslim-majority nation-states must support the UN agenda and reject religion. In the choices between religion and human rights, then human rights must reign. Religion must be kept out of the debate. To assume that", "to assume that religion would stay out of debates was both naive and dangerous. For one thing, such a response increased the fervor of the Islamists who also insisted that Islam and human rights are incompatible. For them there is an Islamic solution for everything. All such solutions were seen as immutable, divine, not subject to debate, and superior to any human-made systems, documents or international instruments.\" As if we could really implement God's law without people's intervention", "intervention and implementation. The negotiation between the objectives of Islamists and reality of the nation state is captured in a few sentences again by Abdullahi and Naeem, as an interesting book called Islam and a Secular State which I would recommend if you're interested in how this evolves. In order to be a Muslim by conviction he says and free choice, which is the only way one can be", "regarding religious doctrine, one that does not claim or pretend to enforce Sharia, the religious law of Islam simply because compliance with Sharia cannot be coerced by fear of state institutions or faiths to appease their officials. My call for the state and not the society to be secular is intended to enhance", "religious observance to affirm, nurture and regulate the role of Islam in the public life of the community. And his nuance between the mechanisms of state and ideas of religiously inspired citizens adjudicating in the state is an important one because whenever you use the word secular people often assume that it's going to be antithetical to religion but its just as you know separation of religion and state law. At the International Women's Conference", "between those who advocated for the international instruments as a sole method of advancing the cause of Muslim women were put face to face with those who advanced for an un-interrogated notion of Islam as their method. The third voice was also present. That voice was in its nascent stage, with no clear methodology or no implementable strategy or objectives. However more importantly it argued that the either", "did not reflect the overwhelming majority of Muslim women. The idea that there must either be human rights or Islam was false. Surely, there are challenges to be launched against the international assertion of universal human rights but the goal is not to abandon them altogether rather to read in the nuances. Quote, for human rights to be universal it must be integral to the culture and experiences", "validation in terms of values in each culture and in terms shared or similar values of all cultures.\" Most Muslim women unquestionably identify with Islam. And this is different, in my experience, than people of other religions. Yes, people do identify as Buddhist and as Christian and Taoist but Muslims even if they don't do anything that has to do with the fundamentals of Islamic practice really adhere", "really problematic 20-30 years ago when people were telling us we had to choose either Islam or human rights. At the same time, many expressed concern over experience of this juncture between what is promoted as the ideal of Islam and their own lived realities. In the 20th century these lived realities were increasingly being made public which was an interesting development. With so much attention however, the push to disavow Islam was no doubt confusing if not also confounding.", "also confounding. Because of this confusion, I remember that I chose to articulate my position as pro-faith, pro-feminist. I couldn't take one or the other. I was going to take both and there was no other name in order to be able to claim both but I wasn't going to be made to take that choice. This third voice was critiquing certain practices and undermined patriarchal structures", "Islamist as one and the same as secular Muslim feminists. And then, secular Muslim feminist shunned us because they considered us the same Islamist because we wouldn't disavow Islam and our Muslim identity. In fact this is when the secularist feminist identity became most evident and coherent. Before this time with very few exceptions Muslim women argued that Muslims maintaining a kind of allegiance to Islam or against", "Islam or against Islam, but again Islam itself was un-interrogated. With the rise of Islamism, the un- interrogated notion of Islam took on political force. Those who had been developing along the lines of the global perspective on gender and women's rights began to lean more towards the left. Some were ambiguous about religion others were religiously nonconforming still others were willing to negate religion in all forms including", "especially the one they were born in. The fervor of removing Islam from the argument over gender rights moved towards what is now called secular Muslim feminism. This perspective would become more pronounced from this time forward. It's rare to hear of a Muslim woman disavowed in Islam in the earliest reform movements, however in the conflated understanding of universal human rights and the post-enlightenment distinction between rights", "articulated to make a distinction from the Islamist, then secular Muslim feminism claimed an explicit identity. As this identification became coherent, the methodology of argument by Islamic resources was abandoned and condoned as backwards. As such, the development of new more nuanced mediated articulation would go unnoticed for some time. In an effort to defeat the ill effects of Islamism with its exclusionary vision", "international funders and research organizations rallied to the pride of secular Muslim feminists. There was an increase in publications, a diverging of non-government organizations. Soliciting funds and publication opportunities for the In Between group was often tedious with very limited successes. For one thing, the In between voice was building a coherent methodology and clear objectives. Part of this methodology was to critique the terms Islam and feminism.", "and feminism, and to interrogate their relevance to the lives of Muslim women. In fact, the term feminism itself became a lichpin. It is interesting to note that neither terms, Islam and feminism were subjected toward dynamic development initially. However without this interrogation it is difficult to distinguish the next development of gender discourse in action. The meeting of Islam and Feminism was only possible when such an interrogation was followed through.", "Here to for feminism had to be western, had to secular. For those who were developed into or already self-recognized secular feminists the projection of feminists like this was not problematic. Similarly for the Islamist, the projection was unproblematic because it helped fuel their refusal to adopt this title no matter what the nature of their activism. The reified usage", "for a period of time made it clear who was who. Likewise, the reified uses of the term Islam were acceptable to both groups. When both terms were challenged then the edge of debates could move forward in leaps and bounds. Liberal feminism's position have not adequately addressed how the colonial past continues", "to inform the post-colonial present, contemporary relationships of domination and subordination and understandings of difference where treatment of difference is connected to the history of European colonial expansion.\" Another quote is,", "of economic, labor, ideological, ethnic political and other divisions and differences among women. A post-colonial feminist analysis raises questions on imperialist and essentialist assumptions of the liberal feminist project where third world women especially Muslim women are victimized by their cultural values and practices and therefore need to be rescued or rehabilitated. It was easy enough to interrogate the use", "Within its own ranks, these critiques have been developed by third-wall feminists, religious feminists from faith systems other than Islam albeit, from African American feminists and poor feminists in the West. The term feminism had to be shaken from its privileged position of the first wave Western feminist movement to reflect the realities of more diverse women than the white middle class. Shaking the term Islamism from its narrow conservative usage", "conservative usage would take longer and in many ways is still unfolding. The crux of feminist responses to larger populations of women globally was already at the core of the term feminism if it is defined, like Simone de Beauvoir does it, as a radical idea that women are human beings. In international documents for Human Rights attempts were made to articulate", "to be a human being in the context of complex global pluralism. As for Islamic feminism, one of its contributions to the women's movement was the authentic challenge to the understanding of Islam and gender debates, the other notion that needed to be examined was then the notion of the human being. Fixing upon simple Islamic cosmology as articulated in the Quran, the human", "divine will or khalifa. Since this is fundamental to the text and Islamic worldview, why has its application to women been curtailed by other functionary relationships and ideas? The wheels of patriarchy within the Muslim historical context focus upon women's human agency to God only as it manifests in her agency to men and family. Men's agency remains independent or to", "even if family relationships are important to them. The location of this discrepancy can be traced to the development of Muslim personal status law or family law. In Muslim personal-status law, it's not the person that is adjudicated. It is the status of that person within the patriarchal family. Establishing and maintaining a patriarchal", "social justice as we understand these today. Perhaps this is the result of women's exclusion from the codification process and the exclusion of their perspectives in establishing the primary canon, as I mentioned to you earlier so I'm going to skip down. Quote, In classical fifth texts, women are depicted as sexual beings not as social beings and their rights are discussed only in the context of family. The classical fifth notion", "more evident than in the definition of the marriage contract, which treats women as semi-slaves. One can say that a disparity between men's and women's rights in Muslim societies was and still is sustained largely through the rules that classical jurors devise for regulating the formation and termination of the Marriage Contract. In this respect there is no major difference between the various schools all share the same inner logic", "and conception of family. And that's from Ziba Mir-Ghazani. The patriarchal family is built upon unequal or complementary relationships. Now, does this complementarity fulfill the divine purpose on earth? Or achieve agency, the ultimate obligation of all human beings created by Allah? A woman's service to men or family should never be a trade off for her service in agency to Allah. However, in the patriarchal", "In the patriarchal family structure, the only one known for millennium within Muslim and other cultures, challenges to the autonomy of women's agency are seen as good and natural byproducts of her nature. Furthermore, to reject the patriarchial family would have been the same as rejecting to participate in community or even in Islam. It was not a price the overwhelming majority", "so they made their peace with it. Eventually the Islamist agenda would advocate the wisdom of this structure, even the secularists would acquiesce to it. No one questioned the Islamic origins of this asymmetry. How do we determine if this is the divine intent or the product of interpreters who were limited to and influenced by their own social and cultural realities? Since no articulation of egalitarian family was practiced at the time of the Prophet developed in Islamic law", "in Islamic law or envisioned by secular Muslim feminists and Islamist alike, the notion of family was taken as indisputable. This is where a radical reform is needed. It could only evolve with a rigorous overhaul of the underlying notion of the human being in Islam and of the family. It's interesting to note how Muslim women move towards all aspects", "deferring to archaic notions of family in the private sphere. Muslim women developed a bifurcated personality even within the context of the secular feminist movement. Home and family was without question. Public roles, education, politics, and economics had to be challenged for their exclusionary dimension from women. Meanwhile, Islamist women who brought their agency forward into the public domain as well acquiesced", "More importantly in the public realm, Islamist women advocated loudly for maintaining this deference in the private space. The advocacy was crucial to their legitimacy as activists in the", "There's no doubt that women's roles in Islam are part of the current global debates. More importantly, unlike any other time in history Muslim women themselves are leading these debates. This discussion looks at the difference between three main voices in a debate. Certainly there", "there are far more nuances that have been addressed. However, it is undeniable that Muslim women themselves are taking control over what the future of Islam and gender will look like. At stake is a fundamental understanding of what Islam intends for women as human beings, agents of Allah, and citizens in the global context. As Muslim women notions of gender from pre-modern times are untenable. However", "only within an Islamic framework with the kind of work done under the banner of Islamic feminism. Islamic feminism works to establish egalitarian epistemology of Islam based on its own primary sources and not with the intermediary of patriarchal thinkers. Islamic Feminism says, Islam belongs to all of us. All of us have a stake in how our religion is defined but also how religious ideas are implemented", "are implemented in our policies and in our homes. Furthermore, they say notion about women's subservience are the results of certain medieval constructions reflecting the understandings of jurists and philosophers at that time but they are not divine constructions. We are free to understand divine constructs for ourselves and in context. When we do this, we unveil a broader vista of gender possibilities than heretofore practiced or imagined.", "practice or imagine. And since the time is going to end, I'm gonna have to just summarize a little bit about the epistemological basis of the gender reform Islam and feminism. It goes back to the notion of Tawhid that I introduced shortly. In Islam we are committed to the idea that Allah is one and the word that's used for this is the word tawhid. If you leave it as just kind of metaphysics then God is one like any other monotheism but actually", "comes from the second form of the verb, it is much more dynamic. So it sets up a kind of axis and on the vertical axis Allah would be the highest focal point. And no human being could ever be above another human being along that line so therefore humans can only have one kind of relationship and that's a relationship of horizontal reciprocity. Now it was always interesting to me when I talked about gender equality that men with bulk somehow said they were going", "lose something. And the reason was, of course they were thinking of men and women this way on a vertical line and you can't exchange that. That is not reciprocal. Once you exchange it somebody has to be down below. If every human being, and of course I've used this in terms of talking about other aspects of global pluralism but if every human beings is an agent of God, Khalif of Allah then they could only have one kind of relationship with other human beings.", "this, which again I mean trying to go through the whole paper. I'm going to have to skip over this really quickly. What we've done with this is link this with the discourse about the maqasid of Sharia, the goal or objective of Shariah. The goal or the objective of shariah is justice and it's very clear in our time that there can be no justice without equality and family. Thanks.", "I would really like, I know we're coming up against the break. But I think we should just steal time from the break for question and answer. And so what we're going to do is just do 10 minutes of question and answers. And then you have five minutes to grab your coffee and refresh yourself. And go into a breakout session if that's OK with everybody. So why don't we open it up to questions for the next ten minutes?", "ten minutes. I've got some mobile mics. Why don't we, maybe take three or four questions because there's only 10 minutes and then I mean they can address them.", "Good morning, Dr. DeWootz. I was married to somebody named DeWoootz. Speaking of your last name, you said you chose it", "and because it's the name of God is love. So when you were saying that, you said it was one of her 99 names. I never heard that in my life. They always say it. Not ready in my work. Even God himself in the Quran referred to himself as he. So I would like you to expand on this a little bit. Actually, that's also in the paper.", "I looked up and saw the time on the iPad, realized that I need to do the quick version of the end. In the Quran it says with regard to God,, Allah does not like other things. And in the Quran also says,. Then I take maleness and femaleness as attributes", "and not as attributes of God, therefore I use he she and it. It's also interesting to note that even though the generic in Arabic is the male form including for example the word, the generic word for a pregnant person is in the male format although males don't actually get pregnant this is a function then of grammar, it's not a function of cosmic reality", "refers to him or herself in the plural form and is only one, then you know that a pronoun is only a pronoun. In English we have three, he, she, and it's there if they have two, and everything must be a he or she including inanimate objects so I'm very happy about languages like Bahasa Indonesia or Turkish where they only had one because I call those the Tawhid languages. So when I make this analogy about a pronoun as only a function of grammar", "of God, they're much clearer on it. So for what I do in English is I just use all three. He's unit." ]
amina_wadud/Dr_ Amina Wadud _ Kehidupan seorang wanita Muslim __1742901960.opus	[ "Dr. Amina Wadud pernah berkata, kehidupan seorang wanita muslim mencerminkan harmoni antara spiritualitas dan tanggung jawab dunia." ]
amina_wadud/Dr Amina Wadud - lecture on ISLAM IN US TODAY_ Par_HCtaovUtuV4&pp=ygURQW1pbmEgV2FkdWQgaXNsYW0%3D_1742948653.opus	[ "But I will speak about Islam or Muslims in America, which is not my area of specialty.", "I will start with the discussion about the US Constitution and why and how that makes a difference to the spread of Islam in America. And then I will go and do a brief history of Muslims in America,", "Then I will talk about what I call post-September 11. That is one of the periods of history, but it has made some profound changes on the ground and I think that will bring me to my concluding remarks.", "also guarantees freedom from the government intervention into one's religion. So both freedom to practice and also freedom from government. America is a secular democracy but our first amendment allows the point that the professor raised,", "And there are certain protections that the government has to offer. So, for example, before the law we're all supposed to be equal but in America where we have free and compulsory education, that is all children must go to school", "by the state, the usual occasion for holiday coincides with certain Christian special occasions. It just happens that the major winter holiday also covers Christmas so it means that actually the Christian holiday is observed as a vacation from school", "school or from work. But my children are Muslim and in order for their education to be equal on the days of Eid, that is the two celebrations of our main holidays as Muslims they are free from attendance, that I can take them out of school", "the school that this is a religious holiday and I will take my children out of school for that day they would not be marked absent because Christians are not marked absent for celebrating Christmas so you cannot mark Muslims absent for celebrate the Eid. They will not be Marked Absent, they'll be excused if there's any work that is going on during", "must make compensation that my children would be able to get that work when they return even if there is an exam. If there is a exam and I have already informed the school that my child will be out of school for Eid celebration then the teacher must give the exam to my children when they", "And that they are not marked absent. So in other words, I exercise my equality before the law and my freedom of religion to have this holiday from a compulsory education for the day of our holiday because it is the only way for us to both practice our religion and to be equal before the", "and have taken exemption from other parts of the school curriculum if they see fit, not just Muslims but we have creationist Christians who do not want the school to teach you know the Darwinian evolutionary theory. And they can exert their opinion over the school, to have their children excused and to have something substituted for it", "of religious freedom even interferes with the mandatory. Education is both free and mandatory so our children must get this education and it must be provided by the state. Muslims have also exercised because eventually Muslims as again other persons", "have exercised their will to construct additional schools, private schools. So we have a proliferation of private Muslim schools in America. We have thousands of Muslim schools and not just Muslim students go there but mostly Muslim students and not only Muslim teachers but mostly Muslims teachers as long as the school fulfills", "reading, writing, arithmetic. Then the school is also eligible for funds from the state and the reason is because every taxpayer in America which is most people because if you own a house you pay property taxes those taxes are used to construct the schools for your children", "public school which is free and you are still paying taxes then the state still owes your child free and compulsory education so funds can be given to provide for the private school if it meets certification. It doesn't matter that in addition to reading and writing we also have Sira, Quran and the like. So governments pay for Muslim private schools", "Muslim private schools, as long as the Muslim private school also fulfills the requirement of free and compulsory education. And parents can individually apply to the state for tuition because again as taxpayers they are paying for what is constituted free education but their children are not getting that", "and the state will pay them because they have paid taxes, the state would pay them towards their tuition. So it is an interesting way that the law works where education... every child must have the education and it must be provided according to their needs and for free but you can take your child out of the school and then you can charge the state in order to either run the school not completely", "you know, to subsidize or tuition for you to pay for the private Islamic education that you have selected. So this is our exercising of our First Amendment rights. It gives us a space not only to have the free and compulsory education but to build private Islamic schools", "also gives us the space to establish Muslim places of worship, that is the mosque and the other word we use is Islamic center. Being a minority often the mosque will function in ways more than just a place for Salah it will function as a meeting place there will also be a kindergarten", "Iftar, a library, other resources that come together in what is usually called an Islamic center. And again there are thousands of these mosques and Islamic centers across America you cannot go into any major city in America but that you will find several. You can literally look in the telephone book and find them. Usually they have a section on churches or places", "of worship, and you will see church, and mosques, and temples, and synagogues. They will all be there." ]
amina_wadud/Dr_ Amina Wadud on Islamic Reform __ Islam as stro_pydsGnZ1LGw&pp=ygURQW1pbmEgV2FkdWQgaXNsYW0%3D_1742901930.opus	[ "There is, I think a very interesting methodology of reform that I advocate and actually I share this with other times in Islamic history. One is we do have to engage with the sacred sources or the primary sources. That is with the text of the Quran, with the Hadith, with Sunnah, that is the established practices as well as with the intellectual legacy. We have to engaged in it so that we understand it", "you know, each of these legs of the journey came about. But then we have to look at our lived reality and our live reality is facing some unprecedented situations like the rise of ISIL or the rise Islamophobia. We are experiencing somethings that require us to interrogate those sources with that reality in mind so there is a method to it. It is a trajectory", "I don't know how many times people ask me, well what should I do? I don' t do personal advice. I can tell you about text. I ca ntell you about interpretation of texts. I c an tell you abou method. Icantelyouabout linguistics and hermeneutics but i cant tell you what to do with your life. You must take agency. Well to take agency means take the responsibility of learning. We are one of the most intellectually rigorous intellectual religious traditions in the world", "and go back to a quick 130 pages of yes-and-no answers, that's not the way of the world. The way of our world is we invoke the full capacity of our humanity, the gift that was given to us by Allah. We refer to our sacred sources. We use those principles of justice, equality, compassion, knowledge, action, good actions, al amal asali", "look at how to best exemplify them in our time." ]
amina_wadud/Dr_ amina wadud_s Qur_an and Woman_ Rereading the _KXK00D-PE0U&pp=ygURQW1pbmEgV2FkdWQgaXNsYW0%3D_1742917245.opus	[ "Hello everyone, I hope you're all doing very well and that your Ramadan is going beautifully whether you're fasting or not. Welcome to hashtag what the patriarchy where we are planning the destruction of the patri hierarchy from its roots especially in the context of religion and more specifically in the Context of Islam currently or mostly one book at a time Okay If you're new I encourage you to listen to my introduction Where I discuss what I'm doing with my plans are with this vlog spoiler alert though", "I want to uproot the patriarchy. And the way that I'm going to do that, as I've said before, is in two ways. The first is through reading books and discussing the books with you here that I have read that help explain how the patriarchate works, how it made its way into Islam, how It is so embedded in the religion now if in all religions and all communities really but so embedded In Islam that we sometimes can't tell the difference between Islam and Patriarchy and I promise you when people say", "what they really mean is that's not Islam, that's patriarchy but we're not calling patriarchy what it is. And sometimes it is so deeply embedded in Islam or in our understandings and practices of Islam that if something isn't patriarchal, is it even Islamic? And the second way we're going to uproot the patriarchy is by questioning and challenging existing and mainstream answers to very real, very valid questions about pretty much all things Islam and gender. And what I'll do is to offer alternative responses", "answers are more correct than the patriarchal ones, although I do think they are. But to illustrate the bigger point of the role that patriarchy plays in shaping Islam for us and also just to let you see what an answer might look like without an influence of patriarchy or that is actually anti-patriarchal because that is very much possible. Now today's discussion is going to be on one of the most important books ever written in the course of human history. It's kind of an obvious choice for me as", "given that it's a classic now at this point on pretty much all things Islam and especially all things Islamic gender. This famed book is Quran and Women, rereading the sacred text from a woman's perspective by Dr Amina Wadud okay? It was first published in 1992 and the second edition came out in 1997 with Oxford University as you can see it's very brief, it's short,", "Not overwhelming, although the knowledge in it may be very overwhelming because it requires us to interrogate and challenge and rethink and also unlearn so much of what we already know and then relearn it. And not only is it a classic at this point but the arguments that are made in here, the points that are making here are so obvious at this time they're very logical. It just makes perfect sense now. Although when she wrote this at the time in the 1990s it did not make sense and she got", "about that briefly later. And because arguments in here are so important and so essential, and at this point now currently very obvious, we're going to keep returning to it, keep coming back to it in pretty much most of my, most of the episodes here in this channel. Oh, and it also comes with a glossary of key Arabic terms that is always very helpful to have. Both editions also come with a preface, the second one partly explaining also how the book has been received", "how people are reading and receiving especially academic books on Islam and gender. It also raises this very important point about the utterly false dichotomy of the West versus Islamic or the West vs Islam as if the two are mutually exclusive, as though you can't be Islamic and Western at same time. Basically what happens is that some Muslims are very fond of accusing especially non- and anti-patriarchal scholars and activists", "total opposite of Islamic, which is incredibly out-of-touch with reality because first of all quit giving credit to the West for all things beautiful, all things egalitarian and justice and love and compassion and equality. The west did not invent the idea of justice especially gender justice and second do you have no idea of what Western history, Western civilization has been like historically to marginalized people including and", "So the West again did not invent this idea of gender equality. But back to the book itself, its primary objective is to read the Quran in a way that is practical and meaningful to Muslim women today and therefore providing a reading or interpretation of the Quran that is not polluted, not tainted with stereotypes about women or men. By stereotypes we're talking about things like women are weak and therefore not fit for leadership,", "default breadwinners or should be the default bread winners of the family. Men are therefore strong, women should obey men, women don't have as strong a sexual drive as men and other lies that patriarchy is built upon. And these biases and stereotypes matter because we read them into the scripture, into texts even if they're not explicitly or directly present and then we also explain or justify those interpretations using or relying on our biases", "circular thing that ends up happening in a patriarchy. So for example, the patriarchy restricts women to their biology but it doesn't restrict men to their biologi. This is not a Quranic thing but it can become a Quraning thing according to how we read the Quran. Oh fun fact by the way and this isn't in the book I want to address it anyway because it's related to this idea that women are emotional and men apparently are not and to be emotional in the case of women is a bad thing. A bad thing as in it makes them illogical", "noticed how the patriarchy accuses women of being so inherently jealous, right? And that jealousy is a bad thing. Yeah well male jealousy is real and often very violent and threatening thing but it's so validated in a patriarchy that literally laws are created to honor and protect and preserve male jealousy. I mean really ask yourself why it is that women are told not to do xyz because the answer probably has to do with oh because men are emotional in a bad way and these men will get", "are allowed in all patriarchies everywhere to control women exclusively to protect their jealousy. And if you want to make sense of this, don't bother because the patriarchy is founded entirely or almost entirely on male insecurities and male feelings and male emotions and therefore it is just absolutely illogical. It just doesn't make sense. Now back to the book. The ultimate argument of the book is that once perceptions of women influence their interpretations", "are all reflected in their interpretations. And of course, men's experiences or really the experiences of anyone who is reading the text are not universal and they're very culturally or time- or otherwise specific and imposing them or reading them into the text only shows how limited our capacity is to understand and apply the text into our lives without the background that we come to it with. And there's an issue of translation which I hadn't thought about until I read this book. You see,", "are gendered. Arabic is absolutely gendered and so we face a lot of issues when we translate the Quran into non-gendered languages because to translate the Qur'an into non gendered languages then we have to make interpretive decisions like what a certain passage or a certain word means, what its purpose or intention might be, what the principle behind it might be and so on so that we can translate it into this new language into this other language as correctly as possible which becomes a problem because most Muslims do not speak or do", "do they don't necessarily know classical or quranic arabic which is very different from contemporary or modern arabic and so what happens is these muslims or pretty much all muslim then end up having to rely on translations of the Quran in a language that they understand which means that they have to rely interpretations of the Qur'an that are done by people who translated the Qur-an according to again their perceptions, their biases, their expectations and so on. academics love to say that nothing happens in a vacuum and as tiring as it", "case for scriptures and religions. You see, interpretations of scriptures don't happen in a vacuum because they are products of the specific individual and collective contexts in which we read them and apply them and make meanings out of them. And I think that's one way to sum up Wadud's argument in this book. Now throughout Islamic history nearly all interpretations of the Qur'an—and certainly all the mainstream ones you and I probably know—are done by men, which means women's experiences", "really, really important are not reflected in our understanding of Islam. Which means that the interpretations of the Quran that we have today reflect only those of the men who interpreted them. While women's interpretations may not necessarily be more just or egalitarian or kind or compassionate than men's ones what this does tell us is that there are profound gaps in our knowledge of Islam and certainly of the Qur'an as well as in our applications of the", "entire gender, an entire group of people based entirely on their gender. So to illustrate and prove her argument that our interpretations of the Quran are shaped and affected by our contexts, our backgrounds, our experiences, who we are, who were not what we want and expect from the Quran and so on Wadud looks at several verses on the theme of gender such as the creation story marriage female testimony divorce male authority", "in the hereafter and she also looks at the Quranic view on the women that it mentions like Maryam and Bilqis and the wife of Firaun Asiya. The Quran actually reveres these women greatly and it treats them very well, and I don't know if you've ever read the passages on these women especially with Musa and Bilquith in them with the mother of Musa so the mother is highly revered in the Quran and the way that Allah comforts her as she's freaking out about having to give up", "God comforts her in the Quran is really incredibly beautiful and it's something my students always point out when we're reading those passages in one of my classes. And then, of course, there's Bilqis, the queen of Sheba who is very highly revered in the Qur'an as well and her authority and leadership are very much admired in the I'm not going to talk about all of these topics. I'm just going to address a couple of them to highlight the argument that Wadud is making and how she supports it. A careful reading of these verses in the", "and the interpretation of the Quran. My personal favorite examples are the creation story, and the conveniently dramatically different meanings of the word nushuz in the Quran I'll talk about the creation stories in more detail but for now for the word NUSHUZ we see this term in Quranic verse 434 in verse number 34 of chapter four and also in the same chapter four verse number 124 so in 434 which is a very complicated very difficult and potentially painful", "but we're going to have to at some point, so I will. But this is where our biases and gendered assumptions come into play yet again because in 434 for women in the context of what to do when women commit nishus, the translations typically say something like when a woman commits nishu she's being rebellious or disobedient to her husband and so on. But for 124 for men, when men are committing nishuz, the verse is translated typically as", "was or he's not treating his wife right um or he abandons her or he is being oppressive towards her which is interesting of course because 434 according to the traditional and mainstream interpretations of it requires a husband to physically discipline his wife which means to hit her, which means that you're mistreating her which called out in 124 supposedly. Do you see where I'm going with this? If not don't worry don't try to make sense of the patriarchy because", "creation story even though we know now that the Quran never actually blames Eve for anything not for committing the first sin, not for eating the fruit first and then giving it to Adam or for seducing and deceiving Adam to eat it as well. The entire literally the entire male tafsir tradition of the past at least until the 20th century blames eve for everything you see in the Quranic account of the creation is not detailed at all", "and surahs of the Quran, and there's a lot of gaps that we haven't yet filled. It's just really difficult to fill them using only the Quran or even only hadith. But the biblical account of the creation story is somewhat more detailed. And so these scholars of ours, these past scholars of hours, they relied almost entirely on the biblical tradition, and they decided and concluded from the biblical", "Eve, and so on. And that God expelled both of them because Eve eats the fruit first and that she seduces Adam to do it as well, and So on this is objectively speaking from the Quranic perspective This is not true because the Quran never blames Eve for anything It certainly never blains her exclusively. It blames either Shaitan alone or Adam and Shaitaan or Adam And Eve okay? It doesn't blame Eve Oh side note by the way isn't it so convenient that our male scholars very easily turn to the Bible", "turned to the Bible and to support their patriarchy, but then turned around and hypocritically told us that we're not supposed to use non-Islamic sources to understand Islam. And of course they used only the mainstream understandings, not the feminist ones for example because if we cared about the biblical tradition then we would also at least in contemporary times rely on the feminist responses", "the actual biblical account of the creation is really complicated and there's two of them that are actually very different from each other. There's also a Lilith for example who's not named in the Bible but she is in the Biblical tradition, but Eve gets preference because well patriarchy. And then of course there's the fact that Quran tells us all humans came from one same nafs which is feminine word that means the soul", "had just decided and concluded that Adam was the first being created, um and it's-and whether the nafs is the same thing as adam or not is open to debate. It's not a done deal. Now the reason why this is an excellent illustration of Wadud's point, this whole discussion on the creation story, um is that it shows concretely how our past male scholars read into the Quran what was available to them given their own cultural context, historical contexts, existing norms", "was available to them at the time, their assumptions and attitudes towards women. They all read into the Quran. One of my other personal favorite things to point out from Wadud's discussion in all this is how our biases affect how we read the Quran is the translation and interpretation of the word Zawj. When the Quran uses the word zawj it seldom means wife, it nearly in all cases means either a gender neutral spouse or partner or mate", "male partner right so zout literally is masculine form for the word partner yet the scholars imagined their own selves that themselves as men as an audience of the Quran so that when the Quran says something like you and your azwaj these scholars decided that meant you and wives when actually it means you and spouses, partners of any gender. The other thing wadud does is to look at the socio-historical context of verses in question", "say what they say and she also looks at other related verses of the same theme for a more complete, more holistic or as complete as possible an interpretation of these verses. Now we don't always know what the context or the correct context of any verse is in my opinion though we don' t ever know what context of a quranic verse is because too many times the context is added on later on in the tradition long after the interpretation", "context is added to support or corroborate the existing, established understanding of that verse which may be wrong. So what Wadud does then is consider the intent or principle of the text its implications or consequences, impact of a given verse in a given context, what happens when we actually apply that interpretation that we agreed on? If the result is bad or especially if it's violent can we claim this was an intended meaning of the", "have other scholars before and after her that the principles of the Quran don't change, and the principles are often vague and general enough to be applied to many different contexts and times and generations. But our understandings of the principles can and do and probably should change now this may be because the understandings or interpretations of the Qur'an reflect the principles", "which means that it's also flexible enough to be applied to many different contexts and times. An example of a principle in how its meaning can change with time and context is modesty. The Quran, like pretty much all other scriptures, encourages its readers and its believers and its followers to be modest, but it doesn't ever tell us how exactly to be modestly. Fun fact by the way, the headscarf, the idea that we have to wear a hijab, a hijaab meaning", "Now I want to end soon, but I do also want to highlight some important points from this book and other works of Wadood's. So first, neither the Qur'an nor its interpretations are a done deal. Sure we don't have any more revelations happening, the Qur-an isn't being revealed anymore, or any parts of it are being revealed, but what I mean is that as long as Muslims are reading the Qurr'an for a better understanding, then the Qurraan remains negotiable.", "just, good or fair reason why the interpretations of any one community or generation or gender should be THE interpretation of the Quran. So here's a thing, Wadud has argued elsewhere in my opinion rightly so that conflating interpretations of the Qur'an with the Quran itself which is God's direct words as most Muslims see it is a form of shirk. God's words are not the same as human interpretations", "a certain interpretation and that's great fine but that doesn't mean that everyone else should as well or that's the only option available to us. The third point that I want to address here, and this is from the book um is that Wadud argues that while there are some differences between the genders and keep in mind that this book is written 1990s when our knowledge of gender wasn't as advanced as it is today and we're still learning more and more about gender but those differences are not essential these differences aren't essential enough", "strong contrast to what our historical male scholars claimed because they said and they imagined and absolutely lied that men are strong and intelligent and are preferred by God because they are strong, and intelligent. And they're strong and intelligence because they're preferred by god do you see the circularity here? And hashtag shout out to my dudes Zamakhshari and Ghazali and literally every other one women however are weak physically and spiritually and intellectually", "understand and because they menstruate and because that they are physically and intellectually emotionally and spiritually weaker than men God has no reason to prefer them but Wadud argues that our gender is irrelevant to God so for example the punishments and rewards we receive in heaven are not due with our gender, they are due with actions or piety right? Taqwa. And neither do these distinctions, these very non-essential distinctions between genders explain why there should be any kind of a hierarchy between them", "genders oh and most importantly the Quran doesn't gender our roles there's no such thing as gender roles in the Quran that is to say that the Quran does not indicate or dictate in any way that a woman's job is to stay at home and have babies and then raise those babies and also practically raise or babysit their husbands while husbands work for pay outside of the home this is not in the quran but qur'anic verse 434 has been interpreted that way which brings me to my next point which is that quranic verses can be categorized into descriptive", "descriptive or general and specific. Descriptive verses are those that simply merely describe an existing reality rather than dictating how things should be, while prescriptive versus are those tell us how things SHOULD BE and what to do and what not to do. The descriptive verses may be time- or culture-specific, and the prescriptives ones may be more universally applicable. How this is to be determined is very complicated, and we don't only have a set of guidelines that we can all agree on,", "successfully to figure out how this distinction works. My personal opinion, however is that this distinction should be made collectively by Muslim communities across the world and the voices of those who are most negatively impacted or harmed by the applications of this decision should be prioritized so for example if we decided that a certain verse is general and prescriptive and therefore should be applied one specific way ends up having", "then we must rethink our decision and change it accordingly. Another point is that the Quran should be read as a whole, as a complete text not atomistically, not one verse by verse or word-by-word so for example if you wanted to understand what the Quran has to say on marriage or on spouse in relations then looking only at 434 is probably a very very very bad idea, very terrible idea instead we would need to look at 4 34 in relation to and", "187 of Surah Al-Baqarah, which tells us that spouses are garments for one another. Or verse 21 in chapter 30, which says Allah has created maids so we may live in tranquility with them and she has placed mercy and love in our hearts for each other. Those are verses you should be looking at if you want to understand what the Quran has to say on marriage. Another point is that no interpretation of", "insist, if we believe that the Quran is a perfect book and a lot of Muslims do believe that it's the most beautiful of all books then we must keep working towards developing an interpretation of the Quran and application of the Qur'an that matches that claim or at least tries to match that claim. We have to keep trying. And finally patriarchy is shirk. Wadud has made this point in her other works. It's part of what she calls the Tawheedic paradigm which I think I might be addressing in a different episode so I'm not going", "and it is the truth. Now, if any of what I've said about this book and what it argues and what shows sounds very simple or simplistic or obvious to you, I'm so glad that it's obvious to", "about the Quran and its tafsir, and pretty much changed so much of what we believed about the Qur'an and Islam previously. Okay well that's all for now thank you so much for watching and listening I'll be back soon next week inshaAllah with the next topic which will either on the book Women & Gender in Islam by Laila Ahmed or on menstruation and fasting and praying during menstruation especially during Ramadan okay bye" ]
amina_wadud/Dr Amina Wadud _The two most common names in the Q_8Ko0qpod5jk&pp=ygURQW1pbmEgV2FkdWQgaXNsYW0%3D_1742931769.opus	[ "The two most common names for Allah in the Quran are Rahman and Rahim, mercy and compassion. And these come from Rahm which is the womb. I'm currently organizing a retreat for Ramadan. I am calling it the Rahma Retreat. Rahma means Mercy because the image of the womb as the container of safety and growth", "and growth starts to fill in the fact that every chapter in the Quran with the exception of one begins within the name of God, Ar-Rahman Ar-Raqeem. So it is the most repeated set of names for Allah. It's also repeated in many places within the chapter not just the beginning opening", "despite its ever presence like that, the tendency to ignore how feminine is this word in its origin and in its reflection. So what does it mean if God is the womb for all of creation? It means loving and caring. It means nurturing. It", "connection and trying to retrieve that for me again by an affirmation of something that is very fundamental. And yet, as I think everyone has mentioned there is this way in which we were acclimated into the patriarchy. And even if it was lovingly assumed a God as male and how do we come to touch these other aspects?", "So for me, I'm picking them out of the very terminology and epistemology of the Qur'an in order to show as I mentioned before this is not something that comes out of middle of nowhere. This is something that's actually fundamental so God has a fundamental feminine nature with regard to these two oft repeated terms." ]
amina_wadud/Eid al Hajj 2020 with Dr_ amina wadud_ the lady im_9v7sJ4IeZQE&pp=ygURQW1pbmEgV2FkdWQgaXNsYW0%3D_1742903413.opus	[ "الله أكبر، الله أکبر لا إله إلا هو", "Thank you. I'm going to get you to stop now. I think the kids are having a great time waving and gurgling at each other. Salam everybody, I'm El-Faruq Kaki. And I'm Tijali Moondragon Kaki Jackson. There you go that's Tijalimoon Dragon Kaki jackson.", "And we were going to start as we always do or often do our larger public programs with the Indigenous smudge. This is a fairly regular tradition in Canada, I'm not sure what it's... What it is in the United States or in other parts of the world but it's to recognize that we are on native and indigenous lands here in North America", "and to recognize the first nations and their spirituality as a grounding of our space in our place. However, I know that Elder Wabagoon has been experiencing some family distress her partner's mother is terminal and so i know that there has been some issue with that which has passed yes and that they are not actually in Toronto", "So there could have been something that's come up, which is why Elder Wabagoon is not able to be with us. Instead what we will do in order to bring us into ritual purity together is that after this introduction and before the Eid Salat, we will have Ammar lead us in dry wudu tayamum", "We're all in the same place of ritual purity for this one prayer. All right? So my introduction was going to be to introduce our elder and to explain the tradition to you. Unfortunately, our elder is not here today so inshallah all is well. This is our second joint venture with Muslims for Progressive Values when Allah in the Quran says", "adversity comes ease then maybe this is the ease that has come with the adversity of COVID which is to strengthen our ties across borders through the technology that we have available to us and so we're looking now at a global community with over 400 people who've registered there's over 225 participants online right now from six continents alhamdulillah", "global community, all ethnicities, all orientations, all genders, all colors and so many languages. So Alhamdulillah we have an interesting and hopefully a program that's going to keep you coming back for more events because I think we'll continue to do something online now that we have this technology", "to keep building our global Ummah, our global Jama'at. After the Eid Salat we are going to have Fatiha. This is a tradition that comes to us from the Nur-Ashqi Jarahi Sufi community. There will be 40 some odd dedications there are assigned readers for each of those dedications and then after all of those", "together. After that will be the khutbah and our Imam and our Khatib for today is Dr. Amina Wadood, also known as The Lady Imam. I'm going to let Ani take over and introduce our Khateeb and Imam. Ani are you gonna take over? Where are you?", "I'm online by myself, it's a trick. Unable to unmute myself but here i am. Good morning everyone thank you for joining us this morning, this afternoon, this evening and it's really exciting to be seeing such a global community. Happy to be", "I'm happy to be introducing to you Dr. Amina Wadud, who's the retired professor of Islamic studies and for me personally, Dr. Aamna Wadu is iconic in so many ways when she did her prayer in 2005 my daughter was seven at that time, her response was well it's about time seeing a woman lead a congregation in prayer this is really extra special for me", "for me. Dr Aminah Wadud is the visiting scholar at Star King School for the Ministry she's an author of Quran and Woman and Inside the Gender Jihad, currently living in Indonesia and she's best known as The Lady Imam and with that we'll lead Dr Aminaw Wadu please lead us into prayer thank you As-salamu alaikum I just want to remind you that in the first rakat", "rakat or unit of prayer there will be seven uh takbirat or seven times that i will say allahu akbar the first one will be to start the prayer and then six more in succession and then when i stand back up from prostration for the second rakaat or a second unit there will", "I'm gonna suggest you just wait a minute, just so that people... Hi my love. I'm just going to ask you, just wait second so people can get their prayer rugs and stuff in place in case they haven't yet. Let's give people 30 seconds to do that okay? Cool.", "فلينظر الإنسان مما خُلِق خُلك مما إن داك يخرج من بين صلب والطرايب إنه على رجيل قادر يوم تبل السرائر فما لهم من كوة ولا نصر", "Allah Hu Akbar. Allah Hu-Akbar. Allah-Hu-Aq-Bur", "As-salamu alaykum wa rahmatullah.", "As-salamu alaykum wa rahmatullah.", "Eid Mubarak everybody. Thank you Amina, Allah Hafiz. So we're going to move into the Fatiha dedications and as I said earlier this is a tradition that has come into the Unity Mosque from the Nur-Ashqi Jarahi Sufi community based out of New York. We have an introduction and then we have the Fathia", "and in between the two we have approximately 40 some dedications. And towards our vision of six continents, one Ummah, we reached out and we've got approximately 11 or 12 community partner organizations from around the world that have joined us in our Eid celebration. So when we were looking at the list of participants of registrants", "except Antarctica that registered and that presumably are online with us today. So I'm going to invite Shams. Shams, are you online? I'm here. Salaam alaikum. Walaikum salaam. All right.", "All right, so you have the text and so after you do the introduction folks who know that you are readers please don't wait for anyone to prompt you. I will prompt people if there is a lag or if there's a lack of clarity or some kind of confusion. Thank you. So please begin.", "to open ourselves to the majesty of the eternal Quran. Now, usually when we have our regular Jummah, we ask for individuals to give al-Fatihah requests, to request that other people join them in making dua about challenges in their lives or things they want to happen or acknowledgments or celebrations. But because of our large service today,", "for all the prophets, messengers, reformers, guides and teachers that have been sent to humanity through the ages. And the next reader is Sabat. Sabat are you online? Yes and Fatiha of gratitude to the peoples elders", "As stewards of Turtle Island for allowing us to live, work, pray and celebrate on their traditional territories. Assalamu alaikum, Fatiha of thanks and gratitude for spaces like Al-Tauhid Jumaat Circle the Unity walls and Muslim progressive value for their well being and growth and the growth of inclusive ritual and religious Muslim spaces", "I'm going to ask the Fatiha readers if they're representing an organization to identify themselves. And this is Zuby, who is from Singapore and founder of Healing Circle and one of our community partners today. So go ahead Leela. A fatiha for those here for their first time in an inclusive and affirming Muslim space.", "the first time feel included and those celebrating themselves in an affirming space mashallah thank you and now Zainab Anwar are you with us Zaina", "Okay, sorry. You need to unmute me? You're unmuted. We need to see you if we can do that. Okay great. This is a fatiha of thanks for the food we have to eat and share remembering those who are hungry", "and those around the world. Fatiha for those that follow the path of Islam or another wisdom tradition in the different ways that they may be following their faith, that Allah make it easy for them and accept their intentions. Thank you. I have Frank and Jean as the next readers", "readers are you online Frank and Jean I have invited Frank to unmute yes hello how are you good do you have your fatia reading", "No, I do not. Okay look in the chat it's there because you didn't look at my email. Look in your in the Chat box that's your reading is right there. Ah The water from which all life comes where'd it go? Oh my god. And the water protectors tree huggers and mother earth lovers Gene to the rescue alhamdulillah. Thank you story of my life Morale is next and then", "next and then uh ann holmes reading for all those without safe and clean drinking water a shout out to indian indigenous community communities across canada that they have are all those who are thirsty", "cast black African woman, an ideal immigrant and active agent of social change. An environmentalist and water protector a single mother who ensured a life and future for her child. And enslaved royal who built the city and the spiritual mother to billion", "And our next reader is Shaykh Nizam al-Nisa Aida Hussain of the Inayati. A fatiha of gratitude for Hajar, peace be upon him and the gifts of Zamzam and the Sunnah of the Hajj, the founder and the foundations of the city of Mecca and thereby of Islamic civilization.", "I'm Raven, Fatima Raven Thompson. I am an activist for gender inclusive prayer spaces, gender equity. Fatiha for all pilgrims who have performed the Hajj or the Umrah in Hajar's footsteps. May their sincerity be rewarded and their prayers answered.", "Samia, are you online? I am. All right. Hey love. Samia El-Muslimani from Cherry Street Mosque Study Circle in Seattle Washington. Fatiha for Hajar alayhi salam and all those who have struggled and those who continue to struggle and resist to provide water and ensure life for their children and their wards", "and their wards. Thank you. Omaima, I saw that you had come on. Yes are you on? And this is your uh we're gonna put uh your reading i'm not sure that you have seen the email that went out yes you did okay so next", "Okay, go ahead And our next reader is Fatima Nordin followed by Nicole Alexander Followed by somebody from Iman. So Fatima Noor Dean", "I can't find Fatima nor Dean on our list. Oh, okay. I unless Fatima goes by another name It's just it's fatima for positively Muslim is how its under registration but Think we're having some difficulty I can step in and read her Fatiha You you're gonna be the the Fatima the Maryam", "a fatihah for ismail as for teaching us that children are our amenets not our possessions or our property let alone ourselves ours to sacrifice and nicole thank you and nikolexander are you on yet okay uh fatia for", "all the children of the world that they may know love safety and security, that they might know a life hold with peace, love and light. Thank you. Welcome to our community Nicole it's nice to see your face. It is my first time seeing you. And Nicole is the convener of Al Fitra Foundation also operating as Inner Circle in Cape Town South Africa", "shelter trust which is a shelter for queer youth, queer and trans youth. Is that right? That's correct. Awesome thank you. Thank you for joining us. There supposed to be the next person is supposed to representing Iman LGBT Muslim group out of the UK but I'm not sure that I have somebody online for that. Ani can", "16 in the chat for me. Is there anyone from Iman online? Anyone from IMAN online to read this dedication on Iman's behalf? No, okay I'll read it.", "brutalized, abused and killed in the name of honor and all victims of crimes of Pasha. All right, and then the next reader is Nasreen Pak. Yes. Patia for all the animals who have been sacrificed this eat may their blood not have been shed in vain. Patian for all of the animals living and dying in cruelty", "in cruelty and an end to the cruelty of factory farming may the animals have relief Adnan is that none online uh yes and i've asked to unmute", "Adnan, if you just accept the request to unmute. But it is very loud here. Yeah, it's okay, Adnan. Even if it's loud, just go for it. Oh, could you honor me by being Adnan? Aisha can you be Adnan Okay.", "here on Turtle Island. Thank you. And Yvonne, and then Batul, and Wahida. A fatiha for those who have had to flee in search of safety and dignity, for the refugees among us and around the world. And Batul is next.", "And Wahida? Wahida is not here. Oh, okay. I will read this one then.", "Abena A Aidoojah, Ph.D.: I know Morris. This is a murder that just came to light in the last couple of days from back in February, a murder by police and the same way. Abeno A Aidool Jafarulio, Ph., D.: As George Lloyd Abenor A Aidoljovich, Ph.-D.: With Arbery Regis Kocinski packet George Floyd Brianna Taylor Clive Mensah Kevin Ruffin and countless other victims of anti black racism for the many unknown and unnamed made it fine justice.", "find justice and their families find peace. And Naseeha, you are next followed by Andres.", "Al-Fatiha for those without parental figures and caregivers, for orphan children and for orphan elderly, for the abandoned and isolated. May they know that they are loved. Thank you Farheen. Is Blair with us? Blair Imani? Blair is not with us. Okay. I can read this one. Al- Fatiha here for the diversity of genders, sexualities, colors of our skin, languages, traditions, stories, and songs.", "And our next reader is Samra Habib. Assalamu alaikum everyone, Ibn Barik. Fatiha for all those who are two-spirited lesbian gay bisexual transgender and intersex. And congratulations to you on your book award what tell us the name not everybody knows who you are what's your book and what's the award you got? The latest award is Canada Reads it's from my", "It's from my book called We Have Always Been Here. It's a queer Muslim memoir and Canada Reads for folks who don't know, it's kind of I don't no, it like a national celebration of books and it's like a CBC TV show when judges pick a book that they feel everyone in Canada should read so I'm honoured that they've picked a queer muslim memoir I guess. Awesome thank you. Thank you.", "shrookie with us uh no there is a shrug el atar but i think that's a different person i don't know i i'm not i don' mind reading it um no it's it's the right person okay there we go okay ask them because you know uh i think the online name is shrookey almas street egyptian so i", "I'm so glad you made it. Hi love! Assalamu alaikum, hi. My name is Shurka Latta. I am an LGBT rights activist from Egypt, so I'd actually like to read this in both English and Arabic if that's okay? Yes, that's fine please do. Thank you shukran. Fatiha for two-spirited LGBTQ people to know reality free of abuse discrimination and violence including spiritual violence and conversion therapy.", "Thank you. Thank you, love and Kevin your next. Fatihah for the poor and for their dignity from the injustices of poverty, homelessness hunger enforced and indentured labor", "Thanks, Kevin. Glad you're with us today and Fanta are you online? Were you able to get on? Yes. Salam alaikum everybody I'm Fanta Ongweba and I work with Africans in Partnership Against AIDS a partner of Unity mosque for many many years and Eid Mubarak to everybody", "Fatiha for those children, women and men who are enslaved and trafficked. May they know freedom. Assalamu alaikum everyone. I'm Fazia Taleb from Ottawa. I am representing today the Canadian Council of Muslim Women. I'm also a member of the Ottawa Valley Unity Mosque here in Ottawa.", "for all the victims and survivors of gender-based violence including female genital mutilation and forced marriage thank you thank you you better be online raquel you better hear me i move on everyone uh fat behalf are those facing health concerns including disabilities", "disabilities, injuries, eating disorders and mental health issues. Thank you. Welcome everyone. Aiden Boddock, fat to have for those who have recently died especially remembering those who are sick due to COVID from God we come into God's return and all those who were suffering displaced disposed and impoverished due to covid cancer illness and infections", "The next one we have for Ali Iqram, I can't find online. Is there a representative of Naz Pakistan online? There was some confusion about people don't read their messages right so If you're from Naz Pakistan, you can raise your hand otherwise Simon and I are happy to do it. Hey Simon.", "HIV AIDS for access to health care and for freedom from stigma and discrimination. Perfect, thank you. And the next reader is Mariam Nazemi. Is Mariam with us? Mariam is also not with us unless under another name. No. Okay I can read this one. Fatih, for those living with debilitating and or terminal illness or injuries may they know relief and comfort.", "And Juan, are you with us? Our lovely Juan does not appear to be online at the moment. Yeah he sent me a message saying that he was having some difficulty and he wasn't sure that he would be here so why doesn't Kelly is doing the next one? Why doesn't Kelley do number 37 and 38? Hi.", "for all those who are suffering, displaced, dispossessed or impoverished due to oppressive regimes and leaders. Fatiha for the politicians that they may open their hearts to the common good rather than pander to petty and hateful interests that seek to divide people cause fear and even incite violence.\" No small coincidence that you're American and you're reading this dedication. And in Georgia too!", "Is Nasir Hamada online? Yes, I am. You woke up in time. Alhamdulillah. Dedicate the Fajaha for all the children of the world that they may have love or no love safety and security that they know a life filled with peace, love and light For all of our relations. All right. And Liana are you online? Thank you", "Fathia for Mother Earth, for her healing and for all the animals. Two-legged, four-leggeds crawlers, scissorers, swimmers and more and all the plants and minerals. Thank you. Uma? Uma does not appear to be online at the moment. Oh she was online. Maybe we...", "Umar Baqir, he is the founder of the Muslim Community in the United States.", "one of our community partners. Paul, I saw you online earlier. As-salamu alaykum. Good to see you Farouk and good to see everybody. Just a fatia for everybody and for all the different communities of life on our planet. Sarah, you're up next. Salams everyone. I'm representing Salaam Canada today", "Fatiha for all the spoken requests and for all of the unspoken requests which we hold closest to our hearts. May Allah grant us peace in what is best for us. I'm now going to invite Latifa to speak.", "to lead us in the recitation of the Fatiha in Arabic and then Meera will share with us the interpretation that is used at the Unity Mosque. So for all of our requests, asked and unasked spoken and unspoken For all of us and our loved ones for all those here today and all those who couldn't be Ameen", "مالك يوم الدين إياك نعبد وإياك تستعين اهدنا الصراط المستقيم صراط الذين أنعمت عليهم غير المغفوب عليهم ولا الضالين آمين", "In the name of Allah, the tenderly compassionate, the infinitely loving. Praise Allah, nourishing sustainer of all the worlds, the tendering compassion and the infinite possessor of the day of awakening.", "So this brings us to the end of the Fatiha", "dedications and the fatiha. Thank you everybody, and now I turn it over to our Khatib to share her khutbah with us. I'm assuming our Khateeb hasn't left the room.", "narrate from their own location. For example, the black church of my youth, the story of Moses was told as part of Black freedom struggles towards human dignity. Struggles that conscientiously moved away from the pervasive white supremacy violence and control. Never mind Moses was a Middle Eastern man whose descendants today participate in", "in various forms of oppression, like the occupation of Palestinians in their own homeland and in the form of anti-Black racism in North America because you know Black Lives Matter. Still in black religious communities we accepted that story as a reflection of our lives collectively so much so that we were not afraid to cast it in the guise of a woman. The great Harriet Tubman was named Moses", "Moses. So what is today's story? What is the story of Muslim Eid al-Adha? While preparing these notes, I already saw a few posts online that confirmed the tendency to shape this story only in its most patriarchal narrative—that this day is only about Ibrahim and his son Isma'el upon the 2d peace. How easily Muslims forget about Hajj!", "How do we cast the story of Hajj in such a way that she is the narrator of her own experience, the writer of her story? First let me tell you what I mean by patriarchal narratives. The year I had a position at Harvard University as a research scholar in the Divinity School, I did not find a Muslim community or mosque convenient for the whole of that year.", "Still, I made an effort to just attend for the Tura'id. On Eid al-Adha, I selected a random place near enough to where I was living—a mosque in Quincy, Massachusetts. In his Eid khutbah, the male Imam went on at length about the power provoked in an image", "without anesthesia he was not talking to me although ostensibly this was a family occasion with others and just cis men let's face it centering the sacred celebration around the story of male genitalia was seen as appropriate in this public performance even while admit closing off making invisible", "of us who do not have the same genitalia. Let me just stop right here to note that my having pointed this out can now be used as fodder to cast me as deviant because the onus on my having ported it out is more important than having that be the story in the first place. That was 1999 before that,", "United Nations designated the year of the family. Coincidentally, this was one year before the Beijing Conference on Women and in the same year that I would first be invited to embody an ethics of gender inclusion in Islamic rituals by giving a Friday khutbah. Many of us would question who defines family here? How is family defined", "out or made subaltern in these definitions. I mean you can't just say family and presume everyone experiences these the same way. Sure enough, the popular idea about family that was being promoted was in line with the nuclear family a patriarchal institution in which a man takes a woman as wife she performs reproduction", "For this, she is given an honor. However, any kind of family beyond this has no honor. Thus myself as a single parent to five children who at the time held a job in a profession i.e., academia that expected me to render those children invisible and inconsequential in order to meet the standards of that profession I also continued", "as I do today, to perform volunteer services for Muslim communities locally and internationally virtual and in embodied terms. Still it would be that same community that would castigate me for having the audacity to survive without a husband. Let me express this more succinctly.", "Each of these souls have and still continue to conceive of me, my parenting, and my struggles as only important to the extent to which it fulfills their fantasy of what is a good mother. So a good Mother must ensure that material needs are met but act as if they materialize by magic", "hostile outside conditions called the professional world she must defer all of her spiritual well-being and the effort it takes to maintain them to whims of those children and their wants no matter how small or large because at no point are those wants expected to be deferred or i am also seen as failing meanwhile the parts of me that must perform as father are resented", "often even more than the absent father is because these parts are seen as incongruent with being the good mother. I must nurture and set boundaries at one in the same time, knowing that together these are in contradiction further spoiling the term mother.\" Between these two years 1994 and 1999", "to read, research, reflect and reconstruct the story of our mother Hajar upon her be peace. In addition to public lectures around the world I would compose the longest chapter in my second book inside The Jinn to Jihad with the title Towards a New Hajar Paradigm. Fast forward another decade", "Muslim leaders would decide that three words about Abraham alayhi salam written in a sentence that forms a rhetorical question near the end of a short blog, that was that is that the blog itself was not about Ibrahim in the first place but that was father to denounce all of my faith. Keep in mind this blog", "specifically after my experience of the Hajj. Furthermore, while it was not about Ibrahim, that rhetorical question near the end literally included Sarah in its questioning and it also included God. But none of these would matter as much as Ibrahim. To this day,", "and related themes of Hager, I have never written about Ibrahim. He is not the center of the stories that I tell. So despite the fact that three words about him is seen by enough such patriarchal readers as all that matters in all those 25 years, I point to this process as a clear confirmation that only certain stories or narratives matter in the patriarchal reading.", "Those who confer that only patriarchal narratives matter by then erasing the sum total of my Islam, my scholarship, my life, my right to speak not only on behalf of Hajjah but also from a perspective intimately aligned with hers. These are not the topics of this good book. Hundreds of thousands of words of soul search and countless hours of research across time", "time gets reduced to three words about a person I had never even written about. It simply shows what an imperative it is that we continue to look again and again at the story of Hudger, anew and from afar. We must reflect and critique the tendency to focus on him and him alone not his wife Sarah and not even God in that same sentence because", "storytelling has removed the story of Hajar from our Eid al-Adha and Hajj celebrations. So let's go back to the story about Hajar. I will tell this story, it is a story about an aging couple, a wise patriarch and a barren old woman who having accepted their failed reproduction and thus the absence of an heir to their household availed themselves", "a young slave girl as surrogate. In this telling of the story, we keep in mind that such a quest is centered on fertility. We can thereby imagine certain things about this slave girl. Number one, she's probably a virgin because who wants to complicate matters by having her already within the range", "number two she is probably young and healthy let's be frank child marriage would not be recognized as a form of statutory rape until our current generation another matter from the past that today we cast as evil without hesitation because", "and evidence from lived realities about the harm in the practice of a so-called child marriage. That it still goes on, and is in fact sanctioned in certain rural parts of the world Muslim and non-Muslim means that reflection on the story of Hajar habitually erases her age to sanction", "perspective of the patriarch, the patriarchal family and their quest for a male heir. So she was probably a teenager inexperienced and without agency or consent. Let me repeat that part inexperience without agency", "often come across black storytellers, Christian and Muslim who try to clean up the matter of lacking consent by saying that there was some kind of marriage between her and Ibrahim. Come on! This is the same kind of consent or marriage that my ancestors from Africa experienced when enslaved in the Americas and which today leaves my DNA with a higher percentage", "of Irish blood than all the other parts of my African ancestry. I don't know why the illusion that they were married plays so heavily in Black narratives of the Hadja story, but just because there is no record of her lack of consent allows us to ignore how important is consent when we talk about sexual intimacy. As a slave and a child she probably had", "that such a thing as consent matters. It does. She was selected from amongst other slave women. They probably would not select the woman who already had children, that's too complicated. The underlying idea here was total possession of whatever child or children she would bear to be absorbed into the patriarchal household", "and her progeny belonged to that household with no moment of her consent. Keep that in mind, her innocence was in their favor because this was a relationship of instrumentality they were seeking a healthy young surrogate for the purpose of reproduction for the household still and", "Hadja complies with all these external mandates. As such, according to Islamic law she and her child are supposed to be cared for as the household is cared for and they both are on the road to manumission because a mother of a child due to sexual intercourse with her master", "it free them as long as they wait for his death at least that's what's there in islamic law my interest in this story is about who provides hadjer and the child ismael were supposed to be provided and cared for for all the days of their lives this is not in keeping with being walked in the desert and abandoned there without even enough water to survive", "survive. In the Muslim historical narrative of storytelling, she becomes mistress of the springs of Zamzam and through her authority over this most precious resource water in the desert, she is then adopted into a local tribe. Okay that works sorta but what my imagination has trouble with", "while all this other stuff was going on that she is therefore, she would be prime pick relative to the quest of reproduction and fertility in Abraham's patriarchal household. So why would she never marry or even marry again? And have more children? Sometimes then I give a different imagined backstory. In my imagination Hadja, the mistress of the well", "gets to marry by choice. She gets to experience what it is like to actually be in an intimate relationship of consent. Further, I imagine her giving birth to a daughter, a younger sister to Ismael who grows up seeing what life is like for her elder brother because of his peculiar dad and the one who abandoned him and his mother. This sister has no", "My sister has no holds over her to keep with this trumped up patriarchal narrative that does so much to erase Hadja, her enslavement, her youth, her lack of consent and her abandonment because as that blog entertained, this is not beholding of the benevolent God. And the only way we can believe in God is as if we are completely devoid of choice and agency", "simply give up in total submission that's why i never use the word submission for islam i use engaged surrender we surrender to allah but we do so with the engagement of our agency we obey comply and serve with choice and with consent that leads me to a third and final theme", "final theme who will speak for the motherless child, the parentless orphans, the childless couples whether by choice or coercion. Who will recognize the mandate for chosen families over birth families and not just who will speech? Who will listen and learn? I would like to suggest that this can start", "reading and telling of stories centered on queer Muslim localities within the patriarchal hegemonic binary telling of sacred stories. So before I conclude, I want to tell you why queer stories figure so prominently for me. First let me remind you when or how will all stories matter?", "witnessed the telling of the story of hajj minus any consideration of this noble woman hadger and her survival with her child a woman who experienced sex without consent and a family that abandons deadbeat dad violent co-wife all with a baby at the breast who is the allah of these stories if the woman has no voice no face made visible", "no care for her survival and yet who ran seven times for her child while no one else did i think we get a clue when we look to see who answered it was the divine feminine the split open of the very earth beneath the desert upon which mother hudger ran or they say the water started to flow at the feet of her nursing son", "sun. This water that sprang forth is clean, drinkable water from the heart of the earth in the middle of the desert. Water of life. Water is life.", "even today. These days we run in an air-conditioned pavilion and where the story marks her running, the builders of that pavilion, the Saudi government takes away from us the right to live as embodied Hajar. The signs that mark the place where Hajar the woman ran also state", "This was the motivation behind my blog in which I asked a rhetorical question. At that place between the hills of Safa and Marwa, I have been told my life does not matter and the life of our mother does not match her. It marks the place where we might begin to tell a story that challenges the rubric of patriarchal storytelling that seeks to erase what it must admit when Hajar was frantic in her search", "and so she ran because this is not the only place where women are prohibited in performing the Hajj. Women are prohibiting, prohibited from turning where they stand with the Adhan for prayer doing Tawaf around Baqaba circling counterclockwise as if we are planets circling around our sun instead when the Adan is called women are shoved I mean literally", "literally by both male and female hands we are pushed to one or two cordon off sections constructed like contemporary animal pens if you will only there are we permitted to pray so while women make up at least half of the ummah these pens are smaller than 1 20th", "We are further excluded from praying anywhere on the entire first floor of Masjid al-Haram except at the only part of the mosque from where the Kaaba cannot be seen, doorway number 89. Even as many of the doors of the Mosque have names this one is nameless. It is the only place where women are permitted to pray on the first floor", "main mosque as we travel to medina the city of the prophet medina women are denied the opportunity to give our salams to the prophets and to receive his in return because access to this grave and of the two companions that", "Make no mistake how all of this is linked to ignoring and erasing Hajj. Denying women the full right of participating in the rites of Hajj by a confined, nefarious plan that means at the ethical and theological level that access even to their patriarchal notion of Allah is limited to men. They, and they alone have the authority to tell everyone else", "else how much of Allah we have access to and who belongs to this Islam. That is why I must retell the story of a Hajar from a radical inclusive perspective that is why i must risk further authorization if need be because the implication of criticism against standard patriarchal modalities and even benevolent patriarchs", "and patriarchal rubrics are all that matter. Exclusion from them warrants attack and counterattacks, but I will resist that reading of my faith, of my Lord Allah, my prophets upon them be peace, and my mother Hatcher. So before I close, I share with you how I came to confirm my negation of such a reading in most recent years. To do so, I must tell another story.", "story the story of the virtues of queer sacred spaces i have experienced this in these times in the past two decades we have evolved loving spaces in the worship of allah that invokes the full humanity of all persons and all bodies spaces like", "of UK or Al-Gorba or South Africa, or the inner circle or Muslims for progressive values. In these spaces we not only do not invoke hierarchy beyond Allah over certain bodies, we instead invoke full equality of all humankind. So I wish to give my gratitude to queer Muslim communities", "or me great in these days. Thank you for showing everyone how it is to love Allah even when certain other parts of the so-called Muslim community have shown only hate, pretending that such could be in the name of Allah. Thank You for lending me, for leading me", "must have been like for visitors to the prophet Lut carrying the divine light when they were met with others who had already been subjected to their wills in the town, in the form of sexual violence hate and trolling. Once again in the name of so-called community thank you for showing up if you build it they", "of creating inclusive spaces you have helped to deconstruct false notions of authority and rigid formulas of spiritual devotion paving the way even for the women's mosque movements thank you for deciding that those rendered invisible matter that black lives matter that queer bodies matter that love wins that hadjer is our mother", "claim family as an institution of love and care. Thank you for treating love and Care as a priority over other formulas and intent regarding family. Thank You for modeling what for me and for others these many years has come to mean that you are my community, you are", "the divine so yes I thank you every day and especially on this day as we return to think about Hatch and Hajar in the time of Corona stay blessed keep to the sacred light of love and grace thus I will end here by reminding us that we are experiencing global protests", "movements there are protests worldwide who is the god of the protesters it cannot be that God that sits static on the stone throne with flowing white hair and white skin I don't think so the god these protests is my god the one who is", "of our humanity. By our resistance we establish better human beings by putting the highest moral standards back on the table with Allah, Allah who gives us the divine breath of life that grows in us for learning and change not for us to become compliant obedient slaves", "or even that story of Abraham. He was not ordered to sacrifice his firstborn Ismael, alayhim as-salam. The Quran says he said I saw in a dream. Well what? So God had to save his sorry ass from falling up on that whim. Thus I do not take for granted that a woman denied agency and every important thing", "up to the moment that her plight is finally captured for prosperity, in the form of the search for life, for water and the wells of Samzan. All of a sudden we can only talk about her story if we cast this as an act of surrender before a God who is putting her faith on trial? I'm not buying that! Instead,", "oppression and discrimination is lauded in an abusive language claiming to be god then that makes god complicit with abuse we must change that complicity with language about the loving god who figures in these stories not only by saving abraham sorry as before he kills his child but also", "her nursing child that loving god of wisdom and gentle care who gave to our mother hajr a divine feminine gift gift clean water in the desert may our cups overflow with this sacred feminine thank you very much", "awesome thank you thank you so much there is a chatter of allahu akbar and requests for this", "for this Qutba, we will turn it into a video and make it available on YouTube and through our platforms in the next little while. So thank you. Let me add one thing Alfie so just for everyone that we will be having this transcribed and we will have it translated in different languages and so look up for MPC's and Al-Tawheed Jamar Circle's websites and notifications. Thank you. And I think we're going to do the same thing", "thing for our Fathia dedications in our effort to become truly international and inclusive, and not just reach out to English speakers. So if you have translation skills contact either Ani or myself please because we're always looking to develop our materials so help yes exactly um so now we move into our entertainment section do people want five minutes to stretch", "to stretch. Ani, what do you think? I don't but... All right we're gonna start our entertainment section in a couple of minutes. We've got Troy, Simi, Sophia, yes Mojakaf and Ani in that I think in that order so", "Orva was not able to join us. So Troy, are you ready to go? Yep I can hear him downstairs. We're in separate places because we've got a three-year-old who sometimes wants to talk with all of you folks as well so... So Troy whenever you're ready", "Okay, he needs to be unmuted. Can somebody unmute Troy? Got it? Ready? Where are you husband? Hold on. I'm here. All right hey go for it.", "is dedicated to Black Lives Matter, it's dedicated to Idle No More and it's also dedicated to the Everett Spring. This is dedicated youth that dares, this is dedicated too powerful black youth that puts their lives in danger and is fighting for our lives so it goes like this", "because we've seen them all before, all before. Tearing down these icons because less is more. What are you waiting for? Colonial clowns still selling you remember that in all that you do. We're stepping", "block because we don't like what we've got my sovereign means sail around with me turtle island ancestors they lead in me", "tearing down these icons because we've seen them all before, all before. Tearing down these Icons because less is more what are you waiting for? Tearing Down These Icons What do you have to say to say, to say? Tear down these", "All right. So our next person up is Simi. Thanks, Troy. Awesome. And Simi where are you? Am I unmuted? You're unmuted. What are you going to do for us? Are you gonna sing not or you're gonna lead us in a zikr?", "No, I want it. You said funky zicker. Let's do funky zicker because I want to get absolutely so inclusive but let's just really include everyone. So what I need you to tell me is do you want like one minute two minutes five minutes? What do you Want to you've got two or three minutes two or Three minutes okay so can everyone get into gallery view and And I just I just want us to really presence with one another", "even though this is Zoom, the light in your eyes, the Light from everyone who has looked at you with Ishq, with Noor, with love. It's in your Eyes and The ones who looked at them and the ones who look to them and all the way back That Light is in your Eye and let's share it with one another so I want you to really presence with one Another and we're just going to do two minutes of dhikr", "and the first one it's the healing bismillah sister came into our zikr and she was so in need of healing that i thought she can't wait 45 minutes from us to get from like the bismillas and the astaghfirullahs and the blessings on the prophet all the way to where we could say yashafi so somehow in that moment this bismillah that has the shifa in it came up so for the healing of the world we'll do", "And you can reach out with your eyes, with your hands, however you want. Flip screens, share it with everybody. So this is the Bismillah of Halima who was my sister who came into my zikr in this state and it goes, Bismillah, bismish Shafi, Bismillahi Allahu. And this is it. Use your breath, use your voices, use", "Allahumma salli ala Sayyidina Muhammad", "So let's send that light from our eyes. Whoever is on your screen, really I want you during this to look at each one of them. Send that light through their eyes.", "Thank you. Takbir, that was beautiful. I think is it Sophia who's next? Ani? Yes, that's correct and Sean you should be playing that video now.", "Behind the curtain, I put the microphone up and asked. And then I strutted. Put my hand on my hip with attitude", "Hi, salam. I'm Mubarak. The first time I did this it was like I was quenching my thirst for something that I had been so close to but so far away from my whole life. Music was my child the stage my home It was like giving water from the waters of Zamzam to my child. It was right? I had arrived? Let's rewind a little bit", "Salt Lake City, Utah with two brothers a French mother Moroccan father A dog, a cat and the American dream. To be Mormon to be Catholic to be Muslim to be atheist The choice was mine There is no compulsion in religion my parents told us just be kind and open to one another My brother chose science Islam chose me Music chose me I started with talent shows", "you're thinking. I won! No, not even close. Last place. All throughout middle school? Lost. High school? lost. All the idol shows you can think of? No thank you. What's your thing? We don't get you. Please exit that way. Nope. Ah no. I'll answer your burning question. American Idol? Nah. La Chetidla. The voice.", "The voice. America's Got Talent, thanks for coming in. Keep following your dreams. I was doing all the right things. I'm singing in English. I'll sing all the hit songs. I Was even putting my hand to my ear like Mariah. I mean this I Decided it's a time for a change no more competitions. I wanted to write my own songs", "Cause tax shows and magazines have much in common with the cover scene. Well, there's covers to cover but it'll never make you feel better. I betrayed you. I'm sorry to say but singing love songs of someone else's story to get paid. But I missed you so I wrote this song. It was me who left you.", "I wanted to write an album. I had no money, no apartment...I had just broken up with the love of my life but I have a heartbreak songs and I was gonna do it! Yes, I slept in my car quite a few nights and I lived off of turkey and cheese sandwiches. My all original music album Heart & A Half came out 2014", "This was my first child, my first baby. A baby needed to feast. Needed to eat and drink. Songwriting competitions. I cut to the chase. All 50 songwriting competitions I submitted to... Lost. The word no started to sound a lot like some foreign language that I obviously did not understand. And I still don't understand. No doesn't mean anything to me.", "anything to me. God is closer to you than your jugular vein, so I leaned into God and I kept going. After graduating from the third best music college in the country, I moved on to live performances. Now you're like vamos! You got it! I wanted to open for the best. They all said no. Come back to us. Back to the drawing board. I began to study under Danielle Lopresti,", "I didn't want to. No one wants to hear me sing in Arabic, no one wants that I'm Muslim. Despite my efforts against it...", "I am American. Back to the pilgrimage I went. All those bands I wanted to open for, including Grammy Award winning artist Maya. The next five songwriting competitions, I won. Festivals and tours? All one of me. All while exclaiming, I am woman. I am Muslim. I'm American. Each person has their own pilgrimage in back but I urge you", "I urge you embrace the unique and beautiful parts of what makes you, you. And go full steam ahead no matter how hard the trail is.", "And my God-given joy, and give it all to myself. And I won't be the one that's fighting, no. Instead, I'll be the you look up to, and I'll keep on climbing.", "Coming out Muslim. Yay, thank you. That was beautiful. Thank you, Sophia. And now we have", "Moja and Moja are you please unmute Moja Simi, you're still online I thought you had left we're actually a few minutes in advance", "Ani closes up. I think people would maybe like to hear another two, three minutes from you but let's get Moja on there first okay and if you are willing and able so where is Moja? I'm right here. All right hey! You're in a nice sunny place So what are you sharing with us today? From my book Hajar Poems I am so grateful that Dr Aminah Wadud wrote the preface", "me to select a few poems. The first one is called the Kaaba's Lap.", "and it is not. Laura says Hajar and her son are buried in the Kaaba's lap, and so is a basket of green gems. No one knows if this is true. It is, and it isn't. The Kaaba'a's lap is a ghost limb, our forgotten grandmother's arm reaching around to make haven for the heartbroken,", "the ones unable to keep circling with the crowd, the orphans of the orphan's faith. Hajar's sandals. Behold Safa and Marwa are among the symbols of God from the Quran. Hajjar wedges her shoulder between the ledge of sky and slate of earth", "crushing fate, herself and her son. We call the earth that mounds around her sandals Safa and Marwa. Holy these God says honor your mother's feet over the lava rock land people settle hardening into tribes and loyalties walking in the grooves of Hajar's sandals and forgetting Hajar ordeal", "This matters, the firm flesh of now, The head in the crook of the arm, The downy notch of beauty, this world of God. Hajar is out marching in the AIDS rally today. Finally I would like to end with Hajar Triumphant", "a quote at the beginning from Prophet Muhammad, Islam began as a stranger and will return as a", "Here am I, Eve out of Eden left only with the wahi of water and the task of helping another human being Ismail. He who without Hajar is history. Hence Islam to surrender begins with hijrah alienation homo sapiens at ground zero", "at ground zero, cast out in motherhood. I and thou in the desert having no hard rod of law to lean on for holiness but only this flow between our fingers.\" Thank you for having me. Thank you so beautiful. I really like that line, the wahee of water. Beautiful thank you creation", "Thank you. Creation is the first revelation. Simi, before Annie closes up for us can you give us another three minutes? Can we unmute Simi please? I just sent in a request to unmute. You should have received it. Yeah, I think I've read every poem in that book at least 100 times but", "but I've never heard you read them before, Mocha. And the wahey of water is just happening in my eyes right now. Mocha's been my friend since we were like 11 years old at Isna youth camps. Oh, our shady pasts. Okay so three minutes. Do you want more zikr or do you want me to sing you something?", "whatever do whatever sing or not because i haven't heard you sing so okay i'll sing a knot um", "shared destiny from earth's mantle to the heavenly throne one shared destiny a chain of blessing and compassion the fairest of creation no seal of the prophets the fairness", "سلسلة خير البشر خير البراء ختم خالي أنبيها جبريل أتى ليلة أشرا", "and the Lord is with him in his presence. Our Muhammad is our Master, so let us be pleased by his response.", "You all know how it goes, so sing with me.", "I cooked my nehari and my chana all morning. And there was some feminist fire in that food, in those frying onions. Thank you. It's going to be incredible. And I love you all. Incredible to be with so many friends. Thank You. You honor me El Farooq having me here.", "Thank you. That was so beautiful.", "the Nassim will be doing, we'll count it off and then get a few shots in. All right? Thank you. Salaam Alaikum and thank you for being here. So I'll start the song Prayer of Light.", "light in my grave light in front of me lie behind me like to my right and light to my left", "And now, Nassim do you want to count off for the pictures with everyone? Can we say how beautiful that was Annie first?", "was any first thank you aren't we blessed as a community so much so much beauty and so much talent right so alhamdulillah for that so picture time Nassim do you want to take over what what yes Salam everyone if you are interested in being in the photo please go ahead", "see there's three pages of photos. I will go page by page and do a count of three so everyone just be ready for the photo this is that iconic eight photo one two one two three stay smiling", "Give me one second. Can you can you take that shot again since we didn't have this little blinky in there? Yes. Let me do that one more time. One, two, three.", "three, stay posed. Perfect. Everyone, I was gonna say everyone stay on your position but doesn't count here. Let me do one more time. All right, everyone, one, two, three,", "Perfect. And then one more shot. One second. Okay, 1-2-3 smile.", "Okay, let me do that one more time with that was blurred. One, two, three, smile. Perfect and then one more page. All right last one.", "one two three sorry that rotated back one two", "the video of this will be uploaded if you're on the Unity mosque Facebook group it's already been fed on a live feed and so the recording will remain there. And I believe it'll be posted on YouTube and so on and so forth, I think what we'll try to do is we'll also have a recording of the entire service but would also try to just do the khutbah as well or maybe in segments so that people can see bits as they go along", "I think that's it. Ani, is there anything else? Did I miss anything? No, you got it all Farouk. I think it's been a really great relationship partnership with you and thank you for all the community partners that joined and every one of you who contributed in Al-Fatihahs and Takbeers and for your spirited participation here. It's been", "such an inclusive, growing Muslim community worldwide. Alhamdulillah, really alhamdulilah. Stay with us let's make that six continents or seven continents one ummah a reality that at least we can get together a few times every year to come together to celebrate and share noor and ishq together so...", "Shams, Eid Mubarak. Sean can you hear me? You might want to stop the recording." ]
amina_wadud/Empowering Women in Islam_ Amina Wadud_s Feminist _7E1UQ0U2LBc&pp=ygURQW1pbmEgV2FkdWQgaXNsYW0%3D_1748554721.opus	[ "I'm going to make a little bit of a hole in the middle.", "I'm sorry if I scare you, I scare myself too You found me terrifying could it be you know who What could I be hiding? What could i be hiding What could have been hiding? Golden wants a lie man Golden wants to lie man He's under my head Scott Golden wants alive and he's under My head Scott", "He's alive, he's alive But he was alive and he's under my headstone Just how the headgear scare you too? Hot helmet Nah just you Just how that head gear scare you to? Hot Helmet What could I be hiding? What could i be hiding", "Voldemort's alive and... Voldemorts alive and! Voldemorts alive and he's under my headscarf He's alive, he's alive Voldemors alive and his under my Headscarf Are you Hufflepuff? Are you Gryffindor? No, Cinderace not fucking Voldemore", "I'm not saying we don't fund children. I'm saying we stop funding the elderly, and leave them to live in poverty because it happened, you should have seen it coming. It's more than that. Just TLDR for anyone who doesn't know but I have a seething hatred towards these people called the Boards.", "I'm so happy. Thank you everybody for joining me today. We got the minds of Asgezia, Pamela... Yeah. We will get to it today. So we're looking forward to that and right now everyone's kinda shitting in their shit but we'll go ahead and join in right now with the panel!", "And it is either my generation who has to choose between, hey can we afford to have children and nice houses that we can afford to put those kids in or do we let the boomers continue to grow assets and jack up social security and eat up all the tax revenue so they can have a nice retirement that they don't fucking deserve. I just wanna clarify a couple things. So you're a millennial right Tiberius? Yes I am. Okay then I'm all on board with what you say.", "What's up? We should reinstitute the carousel from Logan's run. Once you hit 30. Let's go! Yeah, and you recycle them and then keep the world perpetually young. I guess my pushback on this hasn't really been answered. What do you do with people say 2008 happens again what do you", "lost they prepped their entire life for retirement i can and lost it all in 2008. now they're in poverty for the rest of their life and no one take care of them they're homeless and elderly uh so you know i don't think there's a huge discrepancy or difference between how let's say Canada treats its elderly versus United States I'm sure there's probably like some minute differences but", "uh i think just overall as a whole how let's say whatever western or north american culture treats all these is overall done very poorly um even though i agree with what tybiris outlined uh like i don't like i do actually advocate for like pretty much working for as long as your body can sustain itself reasonably uh where like yeah just like retiring and not doing any or you know pretty much like not working well first of all there's the issue of like you know work there's something to be said about", "to do but since we have like rigid structures around work where it's like you're either full-time or like you don't have actual living salary then it's just like well there's no really real incentive i'd like getting the game but we're seeing a little bit of a rise of people coming out even in canada uh we sort of like coerced people out of retirement specifically nurses or healthcare workers because we needed that extra workforce uh and so like i think you can address that issue uh and i would advocate that the elderly are rather like people", "people work for as long as possible uh yeah i agree with that where you can't work anymore what the heck real quick welcome to the panel welcome in thank you thank you friend appreciate you for inviting me in we're talking birth control birth rates and all that other fun stuff right now so like jump in wherever you feel good i'm sorry but do you want to be like 97 year old 97 years old and", "because the only it's the only work you can do that's left first of all you're not gonna live so like actual honest answer as far as that in particular um go ahead yeah like i'm so there's the level where i don't know if i'll ever see this but like i i hope uh that it can and that is i know you probably don't who i am but i'm one of those water purchase friends he told me about you a few days ago", "I appreciate you stopping in and checking me out. Seriously, the level where there's no multi-generational households... I get where people are super proud, super prideful, and this does come from a very strictly American heritage, and I know the Canadians have this to some degree too. You guys don't... Wait, you guys have multi-general households up the ass though! Yeah, we have like 15 generations in one house. No, he's saying non-multi-generacional houses is a very American thing. It is.", "yeah like not having multi-generational houses it literally is just the spousal couple and then children if they are like usually minors or you know somewhere under like 23 i hope this doesn't come off pretty creepy but your voice is really pretty thank you i actually get that white off more than you realize throughout my life", "I'm just gonna run a quick test alert. See, my alerts are working. Nope, my alert's not working again. Well that's fine.", "Oh, okay. It's just... It's very possible, right? Like you're absolutely correct in this point.", "far more common now and things are actually moving more in that direction to where you do what your parents did. Like I know that's an older trope that we're used to, but actually reality is, is that as this country has gotten older people are moving around less not more because there isn't virgin pasture land that you can go off to and settle out or these new areas that are being built up in the way that they used to be. Don't get me wrong, Whiteland, Indiana is kind of nice", "You may move 30 minutes away from where your parents are, but it's not... This does happen, but its not nearly as bad as what it used to be. To where you're not moving a different state to where you grew up from. Well no I was fully prepared too. I was offered a job in the Twin Cities and I was prepared to take it. I-I was gonna say yes. My wife however wasn't as prepared as I was which is why I'm still in Indiana", "in Indiana. But, like, I would have gotten paid there more than what I'm making now and this was years ago. This was years before. So, like the idea that you're going to stay in the same area I don't think that's exactly true. I can't tell you how many people from my high school graduating class don't live in the some area because they moved whether it be job opportunities or whatever it may be. They don't", "No, I get you. All right, so two things on this one. My generation hit some seriously high numbers as far as people who moved away but what we found out is five years later they came back because they couldn't afford living in Chicago or New York or Los Angeles and then also just because I know you personally there is a level where I will say that working for the DOD does color your persuasion here a little bit because you're used to moving out for deployments and whatnot", "and whatnot, where the common system just doesn't have anything like this. I believe now we're up to over 80% of American citizens now do not live more than 30 minutes from their parents. It's actually way toned down compared to what it used to be where the World War II generation, even the baby boomers, not the baby bloomers, the great generation when they came back after the war, yeah, a lot of them moved out", "to the suburbs. A lot of them didn't move around. It's nothing like what it used to be. There isn't places to go now. There's not places to", "experience slash being cut off at the knees because no one's getting a start anymore and everybody's being like but you should have a start. You should be thriving we did it, it worked for us and it's like okay well we're in a way shittier situation than we were previously so we've got to start changing things and that's why I'm on board with the contraception is the baby boomers", "For example, if I went to Silicon City right now, I could get myself a job. Easy. Get myself a Job in Silicon City. However that's not necessarily what I want to do. I don't want to live in California more for other reasons. But there are a lot of walls in California that I don' like. Silicon Valley. Sorry, Silicon Valley, my bad. So I can go get a job in Silicon Valley easy. There is enough startups there. There's Google, there's Apple.", "tech jobs to where I would not be concerned about getting a job whatsoever. Yeah, but you still... There's places to go. It doesn't matter. Like, even if you went down to Silicon Valley, you still wouldn't be able to live there at all. It doesnt matter if you have a job at Google or Apple or any of the tech jobs. Right, I wouldn't- I wouldn'l be able- right, I woudn't be abble to live in Silicon Valley. I would be able t live in the suburbs of a city. Barely. Barelly. Bareley.", "barely barely as someone who has lived in the bay area for a long time i can tell you that even if you had a tech job that doesn't matter there's still people who are living together in multiple like you know like uh uh like multiple roommate situations still and still are getting that money but still not being able to find places to live because everyone is there", "Right, which means that I do have to live a distance away. I don't disagree but there's places go The argument was is there's not places to go there is places so well the problem is everywhere who everyone is doing the same thing the Americans are doing it's just even worse in Canada and the Climates improving in Canada as opposed to down here where it's gonna work", "America's is falling it has nothing to do with the wildfire smoke that's clouding their skies Hey, nothing to deal with that. Nothing to do all your emissions that you've largely contributed to right? Listen All of my weather alerts have not said that too many people are driving their cars", "There was one thing I wanted to get on with the housing, right? And as much as I love to smash all the boomers", "to smash on the boomers this is actually where i'll stop memeing here uh but the reality is that boomers and millennials need to have a conversation about like doing some kind of equity swap on their houses uh and what i mean by this is that literally where all the millennials live is the places where the boomer's need to live and where all", "you have the four-bedroom house that I need to put my kids in. Like, can we, you know, have a conversation about that? Like, no, that actually needs to happen. No, because... I'll only decide. Uh, well, I mean... The boomers ain't gonna go for that, let's be real. They're too much about my own shit and me, me, maybe we'll share. Dude, like, for real, one of my favorite things was about the Boomer Maroover was the fact that, you", "It's a vax and then it was just like all right cool. Yeah, I solve our problem for us But on the other side like on the outside of it what was it? It only took out like 700 thousand in America 1.1 million but They weren't right now four years now Three years now three years yeah mm-hmm yep, well those deaths were intended to get still taking down", "I don't know how much they're documenting these things anymore. Which is dumb because it's not going anywhere, so you can still visit large hospital ICUs and find people in them. At a very insignificant rate, yes. It might still be killing people at a very insignificant rate. This is gonna go the same way Ebola did. It's gonna die off the face of the earth and then years later be like, I never heard about that in a long fucking time. What the fuck happened to that shit? Ebola killed what, two Americans, I think? Yeah, but...", "Yeah, but... It's a little bit less than 1.1 million. Listen, listen. The next thing is the bird flu. Okay? That's the next thing that's gonna come and hit us is the birds flu. Don't joke about that because it's actually heading for us. Yeah! And that's what I'm saying. I'm not joking about it because it fucking true. It's gonna happen. We also have a new SARS-SARS emerging and it's being spread by white tail deer. Right.", "Yep, thank you to homozygote for all that fine information. Go follow him. If humanity actually gets nailed with another pandemic in the next 50 years I will shit a brick. It would be completely out of the century norm. Would you blame Gwyneth Paltrow? Welcome to the end of the world.", "I'm still out here wearing a mask, fuck that.", "right now going on, right? And it is literally the survival of the fittest strain. So as these strains keep mutating, they're changing, right and so when a tipping point happens in immunology, a lot of virologists are doing this right. And so basically the strain that has about a 90% chance", "Strain for all the world is going to be so currently like I said out there are a lot of strains mutating right now and It's right now. Like I said, it's the survival of the fittest strain and the best drain wins You know disagreeing with that? I'm not disagreeing With that but what I'm saying is I've seen a trend at least the last time I looked at as you'd a trend That as Ebola evolved", "Not Ebola. Ebola is on my screen. I'm sorry, COVID. As COVID evolved and went from strain to strain it became more and more contagious but less and less deadly because the more and contagious it was the higher percent chance it is to be the strain that wins because it is more contagious. No, that's still not a thing. The mortality rate isn't determined by the mutations so the mutations are literally", "It's a basket toss. The mutation of COVID. Yep, blah, blah. Okay. I can hit this real quick guys. Alright so the problem is that there is a general trend line that's getting confused with what you see in exclusion or in absence right? So if you look at the majority of the COVID variants they almost all got more infectious to", "There was one that had a significant spike in lethality. It just had that specific combination. I believe it was Delta, right? But everything after that has either been of the same level of lethally or has actually gone down a bit. What you will generally find and this is while this is virology, I say this because it's statistics, right? This is why I feel qualified enough to say those what you do see as a general trend line to where whether it is like a lethaly", "or just hyperinfectious. Eventually, it will become a background disease because anyone who is most vulnerable to it will be consistently killed off at the rate that they're going. So lethality will actually drop through the tank. This is what we've seen with every major pandemic is that we get in a situation from where we are now where it's less people... Yeah, it becomes endemic and to the point where it should be part of the normal background. Remind you Spanish flu which was the big plague back in 19...", "back in 1918, 1919, 1920. It's still around and it was killing something on the order of like 3,000 a year? I can't remember exactly how many it was but there was something on that order. COVID is there. It is on its way down. Right now we are thinking it is as competitive as car accidents. They're not expecting that many this year. I'd have to double check. No when the fall happens everybody is going to you know... You have to think about the mass outbreak at", "Taylor Swift's concert the first one that she had in Arizona. That shit is crazy It's different though, it's never gonna be seen years of this right? We've seen years and it's gone down year to year like So we actually stopped you lethality of coven has not gone down here because we see viruses mutate so quickly that the", "because it is something way nastier, way more complicated. And that's why we're having such an issue with creating vaccines and creating immunity. Because SARS viruses in itself are very hard to create any kind of immunity. And the immunity drops off very sharply. So that's the problem that we're coming across and that a lot of people don't know is whenever you get vaccinated after three months, it literally goes like a fucking mountain straight down. Okay.", "I want to push back against this really quick. So, Debate Queen, you're saying the deaths did not go down year-to-year? Yeah, the deaths aren't gonna go down... There is not a downward trend of death. Listen, I'm telling you if... If the coronaviruses mutate and get", "weirder, we'll just say that the strange is fuck up. You know, we're going to see more people die, right? Because we're not investing in healthcare and we're Not investing in our medicines were not investing In our people to make sure that we are going to be healthy and safe out there where", "Autism and shit like Robert fucking Kennedy is doing. Like, you know? That's all part of it. People aren't believing in the science and the medicines but a lot of people do. A lot of other people do believe that. A whole lot of others are believing in it. For the first time, we have for the first a political party that is specifically in opposition to any positive action", "to a pandemic. I don't think we've ever had this before. Like, we've had segments of the population that reacted this way. I do not think one of the two major political parties has actively worked like to sabotage like pandemic response in this way and we were lucky in that at the beginning of this pandemic, we did not have this sort of conspiratorial view of the pandemic so everyone got vaccinated or a lot of people went and got vaccinated but they are not going in for their boosters", "boosters so that's what that means is that um yeah just getting having two initial shots will protect you from hospitalization and death like for years and years but you'll be a lot more it'll be", "It's going to be very dangerous. That's why people aren't giving their boosters is because they don't trust the vaccines and we can even bring out new vaccines. Can we let the polite Canadian speak? Thank you, Republicans. I mean, okay, so I've got literally... So one second, polite Canadian. I do apologize, but one second. In 2020, the spike was 6.7 0 as a seven-day rolling average COVID-19 deaths per", "COVID-19 deaths per million people. So 6.70 was the spike of 2020 and 2021, which I'm not arguing with down in 2021. I'm arguing it was rising since 2020 to 2021. Since 2021, it's gone down. The spike for 2021 was 10.07 January 15th, 2021. Then late 2021 September,", "And then now we were looking at the highest spike we've had since then was in September-October timeframe of 2022, which was above 2. And ever since then it's been beneath 2 with the highest bite past that being January 13th at 1.86 and right now we're at 0.82. So you're telling me that the deaths have not gone down year to year following 2021? I don't think anyone is going to dispute that specific claim.", "No, I don't think anyone's gonna debate. We did the big one did dispute that claim I'll let them address that on their own terms But I want to engage with what you're saying because like there's there's a lot to unpack there Is it your claim that based off of the numbers that you've just? read off of like yeah that declining whatever death rate that you are now making in the conclusion that kovat is uh, you know has a Basically lower mortality risk or lower risk of death", "Is that the specific claim you are making?", "as COVID evolves, it becomes less deadly and more infectious. Is that sort of like your operating principle? The last time I looked into it, that was the trend that I saw among COVID variants. So that is explicitly false, but I understand- It could be wrong. Yeah. So there's a lot going on there of like, so you're reading off numbers, tracking from 2020 to 2023, which that's a span of three years. That's a long time. And", "in 2020 pre-vaccines you had pretty much new infections and then whatever end of 2020 you have introduction of vaccines and you know some sort of vaccine update again i'm not basing it off that i'm basing enough for the last time i did research it wasn't based off the death count it was based off of uh right i forget what it was if i could find it i'd love to show you but i forget exactly what's it's not based on death count even if it's", "Unless you want to, let's say, put your claim to the test and why don't you track the mortality of rabies over time? It has been around for centuries. Are you happy with getting infected with rabies now? No, I'm not making the argumentation that anything would do this. I was making the augmentation that COVID did this. As COVID variants went along... There is absolutely no evidence to back that up, okay? Okay.", "any virus is just going to follow the trend of becoming less deadly or more infectious over time. And there are multiple viruses historically that can attest to that, and I bring up rabies as a specific example. Now yes, the trend that you brought up is true, and there's multiple factors associated with that that are like hard to tease out but one of them is the fact that yes from 2020 to 2023", "you have some sort of vaccine uptake, new infections and reinfections. And so you have as of now today, you have this amalgamation of people that have been multiply infected or multiple infected with vaccination where like virtually everyone now has had an infection. And yes there is some level of protection but there's absolutely no reason to think that COVID cannot mutate again and become way more deadly and evade whatever level of protections we have now either from vaccines or prior infection.", "I could entirely be wrong. I was just bringing it up because that was the last time that I remember looking into it, and that was what I saw the last thing I looked into it. I'm not a scientist. I am not someone who studies this day to day. Like don't take my word as fact like I... This is something that I don't know about, so I'm just bringing up what I've seen previously. However, I could be entirely wrong and it sounds like Corey who actually... I think you have your doctorate or going for your doctor?", "I would trust what he says more than me. I'm not getting a PhD or anything like that, but yeah. Go follow Homozygote. I am telling you right now go follow HOMOZYGOTE because he is a virologist and talks about COVID almost every single day. He's a PhD candidate for the virology. Yeah, he's a microbiologist infectious diseases. Yeah. Yeah anybody? I don't think he's exclusively a virologist. Okay well infectious diseases yeah.", "Yeah, that's what I need to say. But yeah, but I kind of generally clump it all together in my brain so But yeah like his information is good Yeah, the his information Is always solid and like I would always follow like shit that he's saying completely You know, but don't I don't go anywhere without a mask? still like having gotten kovat on the line I hope that inshallah that I'd never get Kovac but like yeah", "like i'm already immunocompromised like if i started coughing and did all that shit i'm gonna myself up and that's not going to be fun you know but like yeah i need to go get my booster because it's almost been a year since i got my last one but like i need To go get My Booster especially because I'll Be traveling and like i don't want to get COVID while I'm traveling or anything of that sort and I'll still wear a mask while I am traveling everywhere", "yeah i think uh that's going to be the key like i said before like if you have those first two shots even without boosters your your risk of death and hospitalization is dramatically reduced but your risk", "to take my long coven pills right now because i finally refilled them so i can stop sweating uncontrollably and itching and being in the flame mess but yes i highly recommend getting vaccinated if you don't want heart damage if you want to be able to actually work if you should want to do functioning also give adhd it's going to get way worse because you got brain and nerve damage now um", "So if you want all those small things, don't get vaccinated. Okay, so that... Yeah, roll your dice with that one then. We're at 1 in 4 people getting along COVID at this point. Not that it matters, Corb. This is what I saw as a study about mice going from virus to virus because mice are studied because they've got similar immune systems than we do. So 100% of infected mice were killed by the original virus", "Omnicron S had a 80% mortality rate, and you see the mortality rate fall as it kind of adapts and goes to a new strain. I think there's like one offset, but the trend was that it was falling. So I guess I mistook that for the virus getting less and less deadly. However, I did know it was getting more and more contagious.", "communication that our vaccines weren't going to uh handle this um they were the first ones to show the one tissue damage the respiratory distress like we thought that we had found a solution when we actually looked at the lungs and died the tissues and we that was really our biggest oh shit moment was", "Well, also as humans we like to compare things right so because 2020 and 2021 were so horrendous when you start seeing those numbers fall in the aggregate it looks to us like a small number but if you can just imagine a world where the numbers for 2023 popped up at the beginning of 2020 that would be very concerning to us. It would be all over the news if we had the infection rates and the death", "past the flu or any other infectious disease that we're used to would be novel. But because what's novel is that, uh, the total number of dead like by month or whatever is falling instead of going up, that makes us feel as if okay job done! Like we fixed it, like on to the next thing when in fact like we're just in an emergency that we are not equipped to look at because we went through a bigger emergency. It's obviously true that we better off now because we have the vaccines but", "we're still worse off than we were in 2019 right we're so way worse off and before the pandemic yeah excellent that's our issue is the distrust of bringing it back to the birth control is now because we don't trust our doctors and scientists we need to have conversations about whether or not it's safe to have over-the-counter birth control", "And both birth control and plain feet does not cause abortions. Who's not trusting? Especially in red states specifically.", "No, no, no. I'm gonna stop you right there because that is fucking bad advice. If you don't trust your doctor, find a doctor you do trust and trust to take care of your personal health because your doctor is going to be the person who is going", "My fucking doctor, I didn't trust. So... No, that's not what we're saying. Wait, wait, no, stop, stop. We're not talking about doctors shopping. No, I moved my ADHD medication over to a psychiatrist because I didn' t trust my doctor and I love my psychiatrist. I think my psychiatrist is the best thing that ever happened to me. And now I'm looking for a different primary care doctor. So if you don't trust your doctor go look for a fucking new primary care Doctor that way you can have a primary care", "The difference in the situation is because I preach a lot about doctor shopping. These are not comparable in the way that, oh, I don't trust my doctor to be doing the best for my health. It's, oh I think that the government it's paying my doctor", "Get a new doctor. Well, to be fair, what happened is we had at a point during COVID doctors who were conspiracists started to become very famous and conservatives would use doctor shopping in order to find these crazy doctors. The White House found a doctor that would support their theories on COVID and turned out to be a doctor who also believed sex demons", "like sex demons were causing people to get diseases and stuff. So this kind of you can always find that 1% of people that have certain credentials who are willing to go against the establishment or whatever because it gets them a large concentrated patient base that will go to them for hydrochloroquine or whatever it was.", "they heard a doctor was scripting it out like candy there right yeah so i mean if you're saying that your own individual understanding of science uh will allow you to go doctor shopping to find a doctor who will tell you the things you want to hear then you're not trusting like science and you're Not trusting doctors you're trusting your own judgment", "And that can be dangerous. Don't do that. When I say find a doctor you trust, I'm talking about general trust as in you trust your doctor to make the best medical health decision for you not find a different doctor because you think your doctor made the wrong medical health decisions. You'd sure get like a second opinion but don't specifically go out to see a doctor that has the opinion you're wanting. Like that's not doctor shopping. That's just finding someone who is going to confirm what you believe.", "What Rich was talking about was America's frontline doctors. It was like a whole organization that was putting out basically fake information about COVID-19 treatments and things like that, which got people to start shopping for doctors that would agree with these doctors because if you have a doctor who is telling you to take a vaccine, other things like they're not going to trust that doctor at the time it was hydroxychloroquine that they were pushing but then of course now after that ivermectin became popular", "I wasn't allowed in rooms with him because he was telling the old hill ladies that they were gonna have microchips. Yep, yep. Don't you know that the vaccine, COVID vaccine has microchip's in it and that Bill Gates is trying to control you through the vaccine program? Yeah, that's that kind of bullshit our people are literally believing. Bill Gates was planning a population control strategy.", "You need a lot of people to believe a lot things. It's not hard to start like, a conspiracy theory. Take that PC chick. Now you're talking. I'm on board now. No the internet is for porn, not for this.", "The anti-intellectualism really does bother me. And I say this on the right because I know it's more of a right wing problem. Don't get me wrong, there are some left wing issues there too but like... You brought up Gwyneth Paltrow earlier in Goop. I didn't bring her up. Somebody did. I was just like yeah. So here is my issue and I will tag the right on this one. I get why there was the narrative that you know what if you work for the government", "If you, you know, if you were, you went to academia, you were a square. I get it, I even get why. But the problem is we have to acknowledge that this was a fuck up and you don't get nice things when you categorically leave all of academia and pretty much all the institutions because you think they're kind of lame. Because this is what happens.", "Here's the bad part though. Here's, here's the really bad part is that they parts very small parts of what they were saying were correct such as it turned out to actually be closer to a lab leak than coming from a bat and so what's gonna happen is these people I read the report yeah I read", "I read this this week. Yes, but it was not... And they are saying that it's not- I'll pull it up. I literally- I think I did this yesterday. Um... So they're saying that is was not engineered. No no, I'm not saying engineered! I'm saying it was a lab leak. That it leaked out of the lab. I'm NOT saying it's engineered. I know, I am saying-", "bitch i if you don't shut the up i read the report yesterday where they have a horrible report saying this is what we don't think happened this is that we think happen um and if they're not thinking that it was a lab leak there are two guesses they have two options right now it's an animal infected one of the personnel and spread that way or whether", "but we've fucked over our communications internationally especially at the science medical field to where no one wants to admit any kind of failure on their part because then as soon as China goes well maybe we should have done this instead, as soon they do that they're instantly you made this you constructed this it's your fault um because actually it was yesterday", "um the funding and made it official that they're not going to fund the luhan lab which is a detriment to our health because we need to be having the surveillance we need", "had years before funded the CDC, USAID and the National Science Foundation. And the USDA was handling them animal side of things. The other three agencies were handling the human side of thing. They had offices in Wuhan and then China more broadly those four agencies. And in 2018 the Trump administration cut", "shouldn't be doing China's job for them. And then when asked about it in a press conference, I saw this press conference live, Trump said, well, this is ridiculous. There's not going to be a pandemic. We're wasting our money here trying to detect one. And if there ever is one, we can just put this early detection team back in there. Like after the horses have already left the barn, then we can close the doors. So that was his argument at the time. So", "later, well actually a year later because in 2019 at late 2019 COVID was spreading and the rest of the world wasn't able to understand what it was. What was happening? And this is almost a direct parallel to what happened in 2000 early 2002 I think when we stamped out the first coronavirus which was like SARS-CoV1", "we had like the CDC was there too at that time and they in conjunction with World Health Agencies were able to stamp out SARS before it went pandemic, like in left the borders of China. Those very same efforts, we didn't have that capacity in 2019 when COVID started in China. So we had potentially the opportunity to do for this disease what we did for SARS or at the very least", "or at the very least have an earlier warning and like a better response system for when it did go pandemic. And we didn't do any of that because we cut the funding to something that we couldn't imagine would be a threat, um, uh, when we were doing those cuts. Okay. So again, what I was saying is still not factually incorrect based off of like why I'm saying it's dangerous when like a conspiracy theory like this has like small points that become correct over time", "That's the dangerous part is when those truths come out that people are going to be more inclined to believe a conspiracy theory next time because the last one they had, there was like small truths that came out that made the whole thing seem like it was real. Yeah, like when the CDC said masks don't work, right? Right. That turned out to be... That hurt their reputation a lot. And when they said the pandemic's over. Yeah. Yeah it's not. So alright I'm gonna take a swing at both", "the experts, the elites and the average person at the same time. There is no give-and-take with these conversations and there hasn't been for quite a while right? When we talk about climate change you'll have these folks who will make these claims about what's coming down the pipe now some of them are alarmist to be alarmist they're like hey can you get off your fucking ass and do something about this that's what it is. There's others that are plain simple it's like hey this is what we expect", "The problem that we keep having is that the academics, either academics, elites, whatever you want to call them. I don't give a shit. Tend to do this thing to where they know they're damned if they do and they're d***d if they don't because if they wait and they say hey look we're gonna wait for some evidence here or we're going to wait for the data to come in then the public kicks their ass on the fact that it's like well you're experts why don't you know what's going on right? On the other side of that", "opposite way where they will make a claim originally just to get ahead of something but if it's 90 correct the the public will latch on to that 10 so i get where the elites are on like just trying to do their fucking job and they just they can't uh and so i'm largely bagging on the public there the problem with the elites is that they have actively acknowledged that that's a problem and i've just pretty much told everyone to go fuck themselves they're going to do whatever", "So I think you do have to make a distinction between the elites and the academics. I think the academics have, if anything, they've been doing the other thing where they're actually underestimating what the problem is. The impacts that we're seeing now are impacts that were predicted for – to start like after 2050, and we're already seeing those impacts now. So they've be very conservative in the calls that they've making. I mean mainly because they didn't want to run the risk of being called alarmists for saying what the bigger impacts were.", "the bigger impacts were that's what the academics are doing if anything they were underplaying it but the elites like people like al gore who aren't academics who aren t scientists themselves we're taking like long tail like one percent probability claims and then referring to it without like talking about that they were in the long jail like for instance like when we can expect new york city or florida to be underwater like those are still big risks like we can except those things to happen in the future", "the prediction that he made. So some of those long-tail things have happened, right? But what happens is if you make a prediction as a politician referring to academic studies that you don't understand then your predictions becomes a substitute for the paper itself and people can say oh Al Gore was wrong about this date or about that date or some other thing but what you'll notice is academics aren't doing that. Academics are doing the opposite they're being uh", "any like big sort of controversy and admittedly that might like slow change but they're being conservative in the way that they publish papers. And I know like Corey understands this because I think this is also Corey's debating style he makes, he's just very calm, very reserved doesn't want to make any claims that he can't back up with a thousand sheets of data and we're in a panel where we don't have time to cite all that data and so he goes unheeded for long periods", "because he's not someone who's just attached to the big flash-in-the-pan headline stuff. And I think that that's the difference between the elites, who are... Just don't understand science and they're making these terrible predictions that don't pan out, and academics who are if anything underplaying the effects of climate change or at least the dates in which we can expect risks to occur. I'll just say one thing. Just wait, iCow, until I become an elite and you'll see the about face.", "Yeah, once I make all that money from being a scientist man. Yeah those rich college professors, I'll tell you. You can't Google fake it's like all these tabs. Be the next what's his face Anthony Fauci, you know? Right, yeah. Of Canada. You know, it's funny he was a villain on the left right he was", "population in the 90s. He was burned in effigy. Because when the science changes, he like changes with it right? No no wait wait he went out and told the American public masks don't work because he was trying to keep masks for medical health workers. I'm talking about his flip-flop in the nineties when he realized oh we're not doing enough you know on this AIDS stuff", "this aids stuff or my science communication wasn't really good on this so the guy who was being burned in effigy turned out to become like a hero for that population because of what he did like to combat aids and the rise of azt and stuff like that uh and so that's he's been hated on the left he's then hated on their right um i think that's what will happen if you're an outspoken scientist like during pandemics", "He makes more than the president does he's the highest paid person in the federal government. I highly doubt that What no, he made he made more than presidents did I mean, I made more $300,000 a year charge of infectious diseases to make more than a president because they're doing it harder to fuck your job a lot of people's lives rely on them and Also like correct Like I don't actually know like in terms of like his overall career trajectory But I believe he was in that position for life whatever decades and decades", "whatever, decades and decades. 40 years? Like, correct me if I'm wrong, but I suspect that he didn't start off at like 300k. Fauci made $480,654 by comparison to the president's salary was $400,000. Yeah, but going back to the 80s? That's a joke, Grayson, I just assumed. When did Fauci get his current position?", "He was in the NIH. And also, to get to... I can criticize credentials but let's just say someone in that position has way more credentials than most presidents of the United States so I think there is some tracking there. I mean, I just found it shocking he was making more than the president did. I found that shocking personally. Well, I mean... If you're advocating for Biden to get a raise then that's...", "you want your president to be exclusively motivated by the salary like that's not my president i want my president not to be motivated by outside money for politicians getting high salaries for that reason oh i want i want other reforms to prevent external money as opposed", "Salaries, but I'll just incentivize bribery by paying them well and then at the same time Yeah You should absolutely make it illegal for them to do you know take all this outside money. Okay? Same hand Shoes on my person like just good pick pick sprout a Sprout okay, I was just more of like whose argument is ever so hi doggy anyway So here first things first okay? Let's talk about", "Okay, let's talk about campaign finance.", "this shit and when people are like oh things don't happen for me and then they you know they're not doing any of that kind of don't feel sorry for them like here's the thing I think the average person should be able to run for president and have generally the same effect uh had the same like opportunity as someone who makes millions of dollars a year um because i think that the average", "or the multimillionaire. And that's generally where I think it should be. I know we're far, far, away from getting there. Yeah and if I could add on to that I want to say also too I think any politician anything that you want to run for any average person should be able to run", "All right, I'm about to have a fucking aneurysm here. But I probably agree with you guys at least half of this way.", "are they PhDs? It depends. You forgot Navy SEAL. Hey, look, Crenshaw is based... There's always one Navy SEal. Even if it's not Crenshaw, there's always", "Basically, it's good with science.", "Like, are you wise? Are you principled? Are your character- You know, someone of character, right? Cause I can vote for somebody who doesn't have a good resume. I'm not saying that the person has to be all losses, but like if I work in cyber security rest my life, I'll never have enough money to start a presidential campaign. Like, I just won't have enough to have a presidential campain. Help me fund my Senate campaign in 2026.", "That's the idea. If I work in cybersecurity for the rest of my life, I want to be able- It's supposed to be that way. No, that's the thing. It's SUPPOSED to be THAT way. Right? Like people have this- I think look at this conversation the exact opposite To where you go to the people that you WANT TO represent and you're saying, Hey! I need your money to run. And like people are like, Oh that's corrupt it's a quid pro quo crow", "Don't get me wrong, there's legal parts of this. But actually that is how the system is built and it works.", "Yeah, but I don't think is what I don' think. I don''t have any large donors That's where you have to shmooze. I dont-I don't-I Don't think that people should be required to put their livelihood on the line to run for president Yes I'm here for that You know for again for not just president before all People who wanna run for any race out there", "If healthcare has to put their life on the line, the president's got it.", "eligible candidate and that you would be the best candidate to represent your people, then you should be able to go and not have to put your livelihood on the line and be like I'm trying to get money and I had to quit my job because I had go around knock people on peoples doors. Sorry kids we're having ramen noodles for next month because I can't afford shit else and hopefully someone finally gives me some money otherwise I have to go start looking for a new job because i just quit the one job I had", "Yeah, I'm absolutely going to defend this. You have to build up that support from the bottom. That's why you run for school board. No! Yes. I'm so sorry. I am so tired of fucking Republicans being like, Run for schoolboard. Run for this. Start small. No, start big because you can. Because we believe in you. Because this is motherfucking America and fucking democracy", "I can represent the president at 35", "You know, I can represent my own constituents. But it's better that I have that bigger seat anyway. So what I am getting here though is that... What biggest thing people do not fucking understand is that the campaign is one of the biggest qualifiers for if you're actually good enough for the job because sorry folks but campaigns are not fucking easy they're harder than shit and if you can't even run a goddamn campaign you don't deserve whatever office you're running for", "And they set everything up for you? What, what- They run the campaign. Yes. Fucking top-", "Yes it does. Wait, what are you saying, Jack? You can make it on the spot though. Please.", "So you would have to have a certain amount of resources on your own in order. But hold on a second, because if we're going to do that, then you go to the next step and you can go the next up at each of these years. You're going gonna have to be able to devote your time to that job and not have to worry about the money that you have coming in at home. And if those salaries are underpaid, that ensures that only wealthy people can run for even those lower offices, which means that puts the filter at the beginning of climbing the ladder", "Here in Texas, it's much lower. It's $7200 a year for a member of the Texas State House. So you're not going to have lower middle class people running for those offices because even if they win, they can't afford to maintain a career that way. They're gonna still spend most of their time supporting their household with whatever job it is they have and then just hope that they can survive", "times where they have to be in Austin actually doing the voting or the equivalent in Indiana. Like, that's a big problem. There's an easy solution to that. I'm joking. You just have children living with their parents like run for those positions. Also, no one's going to elect an 18, 19, 20-year-old into a fucking school board or honestly into a state rep position. I would. I absolutely would. Oh, Jesus Christ.", "Oh, Jesus Christ. Alright, look- The large majority of people aren't going to. Okay, honestly? Like a 20 year old running for school board is fucking base? Please do. Alright. So let me split hairs here with Rich because there's a part where I think he absolutely hit the nail on the head and then there's part where i think he went off the rails. Number one, I absolutely do you think that we, and I'll actually shoot the gun more at Republicans here, do not pay elected representatives enough", "you should run out of the good of your heart, right? And if you know, you can just support it all up and you're good. Like I am the guy who's been on record. I think the president should be paid a billion a year because that's the level responsibility that office carries with it. Okay. So anyway, let's table that conversation because I don't want to open all that one up. The other side of this is it's not about what you're paid for as a salary. It isn't as far as", "that you need to get yourself the school board so that when you decide to go for the next office, you have that base support that you are now trying to expand. The entire part about being a political operative, if you will, a career politician is not about how much you're paid as far as like paying your bills as much as it is getting that next piece of support that means you can run for the", "And I get why there's some parts that are unscrupulous about it. The reality here is that if we are not going to have that, nothing will ever get done in this country ever again unless you have a dictatorship. Yeah, but those career politicians have to be able to come from every walk of life, which is why you have to have a salary commensurate with the position. Like, I agree with you. I want people who have experience to climb up that ladder and become president and everything else.", "I certainly think the experiment that we ran with an inexperienced person coming in from the private sector running everything like We almost ran their president with Perot. I think it would have been a problem But we ran it for real with Trump and I think we've seen had JFK That was a very political family, that was a Very political family yes they were yes the Kennedy's understood politics from way back yeah And also like it might still be medicine family. I don't know", "family. I don't know. And we didn't really run a full experiment with JFK, right? Because he was like, you know, killed before he could even complete the term. It was late in his We had the majority of his term with JFk. He had a bullet. Yeah. I mean, we did get the Bay of Pigs out of it. So, you", "I'll wait. COVID thing? I'll Wait. Electoral thing? There it is! Just get ready because I'm going to scream for an hour straight at this next topic. Oh, I love it. I have something to say. Trust women and birth control down the throat. I took mine... Wait, wait, wait. If you're saying birth control DOWN THE THROAT how are you trusting women to make their decision whether or not they want birth control? I swallow birth control AND kids. That's what she said.", "that's exactly what the i'm saying see no answer no babies 2023 2024 2025. oh let's go all right campaign slogan for sure right on to the next topic if we are ready so and now i'm going to try not to laugh through this but a trial to murder you through this reporting me into this we the people health and wellness center provide freedom-based healthcare", "healthcare is this the direction we should be taking with health care in the future or scam preying upon some of those are most vulnerable so let me just read a quick we are primary direct uh your direct primary care direct primary cares transforming healthcare by removing health insurance from the doctor patient relationship health insurance restricts practices from charging lower fees and forces practices to see more patients", "By removing the third party influences and governances, direct primary care practices have the ability to charge low flat recurring membership fee instead of billing insurance allowing participants or physicians to uh yeah allowing practicing physicians to eliminate administrative and middlemen costs. This also allows physicians to spend more time with each patient and the ability", "new model this new model is different from what most people are used to so we work hard to provide discounted pricing labs prescriptions imaging and more we the people health and wellness center has no co-pays included visits brief or no office wait time just to name a few of the many benefits we can offer how do we feel about this corey uh well so i actually read that exact about section", "and a half minute video on their main page trying to determine uh what exactly uh is it that they're selling if anything uh it seemed like so whether it's legitimate or not i don't know i'm just gonna take out a face value of like this legit thing that's trying to provide legitimate health care it seems like some sort of primary care mutual aid or like uh i don' t know how it's all that different from just like insurance but i guess direct uh yeah but uh", "Basically, do I think this is a good model for the rest of the country? Probably not. But I'm not against whatever people buying into this and this existing window to where I'm at now if it's legitimate. Excellent. Rich? I actually have some experience with this so like I've worked with parents of families in a very low socioeconomic status school district", "I did know a doctor that I could refer them to that worked without insurance. And because he worked without insuranc,e he was able to charge lower rates and so this is not... I didn't refer people to him because i think like that we ultimately need to have a system that's based on this. I referred people to them because it is true that there are", "like doing business at this level because they don't have to worry the paperwork that drove about the bureaucracy. They don't, I have to worried about uncertainty reimbursements and schedules and things like that all of those are critique of a system that's insufficient to otherwise deal with people like this. And so um uh I would will continue to refer people to this doctor for that very reason like and i i obviously understand", "in community with each other like tend to have libertarian leanings and things like that and are against the system but they're still providing for uh something in a system that's inadequate that's not uh getting people with what they need especially if you're an illegal immigrant because then you're going to be reticent to sign up for things like the aca anything that you think might that's going", "services. I think some of this freedom-based stuff has a place in the system that we have now. However, that's really a larger critique of a system that needs to change in a way so that these services won't be needed in the future. It's not like this isn't my ideal way of handling things. Thank you, Rich. Jack, glad to have you. Jack and Kate, I hate you for this. I'm already at my blood pressure right now. Okay, so", "Can you talk closer? Jack? Hold on, hold on. Openings!", "We give a little bit more access to their website. And the process of doing so, they show you a few more of the treatments they offer and one of the things that they say specifically is we offer treatment without oversight or outside influence being detected. I'm sorry, I understand medicine. Lack of oversight is not how we want to go ever again.", "We did that shit before. It was not good. Lots of people ended up with ice pick lobotomies. No good. Let's not go back to that. And with that, I can see. Queen? Um... I think that this company is a scam. Um...I don't think that they're going to provide adequate healthcare. Um, I think the only way that we could ensure that everybody has equal healthcare is for Medicare for all.", "care for all, where we can all make sure where we are seen by a doctor, cared for by a Doctor and not this scam where we really don't know what's going on with the company which I'll get into later.", "Motherfucker! I almost said you were gonna bust a nut but...", "clinic is doing and as soon as I saw that freaking IV drip, I knew exactly what this was because they're the same people that are gonna sell you a hangover cure as a banana bag which literally just a fucking IV fluids and isn't actually going to slow down anything it just makes your headache a little better because you're not as dehydrated but this is- they're even selling consultation for when", "because you need your handheld going to the doctor and you have to pay them for that consultation. And like, this is such a gross... It's such a GROSS form of being driven by money because our healthcare system is already driven by MONEY We have no reason to care about patients because we're brunette because patients don't give a shit about us people don't even give a sh!t about us and we're b!tched out", "people that prey upon people that are desperate for care, especially people that low income or immigrant status or illegal status. People that are a little bit unsure about going or uninsured they're gonna try to go these clinics because they look affordable but what's not affordable is paying for bogus treatments that end up costing you more in the long run", "any insurance premium or any insurance deductible because prevention is better than treatment take away sprout all right so i'm so glad you didn't touch the topics that i wanted to touch on so you know you you know what this clinic is gonna do you got a kidney stone gotta go to er gotta have an aim let's you yeah we don't cover that yo you're pregnant", "You have a broken arm and need immediate surgery. Fuck you, we don't cover that shit. Your leg snapped in half. Fuck You We don't Cover That Shit And now you're left without health insurance at the ER paying the massive health bill Okay this is absolutely insane that people would give up health insurance to go to this clinic offers practically nothing right they're practically saying we're gonna be your primary care physician", "this membership fee. Oh, and by the way you don't need health insurance. They specifically say you don' t need health insurace because they're your primary care physician right? But are they your surgeon? No Are they your ER? No. Are they uh...are they your OBGYN? No! Are they the person that's gonna help you give birth? No I can go keep going down this fucking list And it's absolutely insane that this company would try to like play themselves off as like we are your solution for health insurance", "No the fuck you're not. You're just gonna take these people that are gullible and you're gonna make them pay with triple, quadruple probably more than that times the amount of time- times the amout of money they would pay in health insurance and medical bills that they figure out oh shit I had to go to ER Oh shit! I don't have medical insurance This is so fucking stupid it's insane And invest in gold people. Ty? Go ahead Yeah, I'm not quite sure what to make of this because I was trying to like look these guys up", "of like look these guys up and it definitely had more of a sales pitch to it than it was like hey you know this is what exactly we're doing um so i'm gonna just go with ignorance on this one to a large degree where i try to do my homework either i was just too dumb to be able to do that successfully or i just couldn't find it in their bullshit uh needless to say i'm not impressed by the fact that it's like", "It should be kind of like right in front of me, like very easy to find. Hey, this is who we are. This is what we're doing and this is how we're different. Like from what I could read, it looked kind of interesting. I was like, hey, you know they're trying to break the mold with the insurance model. And out of a hat, I think everyone kind of hates the insurance bottle right now but I mean kinda have to wave your flag. I kinda like it better. Oh, you'll have to explain that one to me but that's whole other conversation.", "like something you'd be hearing from your grandparents television as they sleep and right next to the 1-800-588 thing that fox runs all the time so go ahead and hurry up so i can piss in thai shoes okay before you do um thank you for touching on what whatever i was going to go at the open it's supposed to be gonna", "if you do have insurance. Then your insurance goes, oh now we're okay with you going to get this specialty and then you gotta pay for the specialty as well. This is a fucking scam at best. Speaking of the middlemen, this doesn't address the middleman but one thing that does address the middleman is the ACA because one little understood feature by most people about the ACa is that it caps gross profits", "percent this is a 20 net profit this is 20 gross profit which means after you've paid out uh like all of your um uh you know everything that you do like for coverage and stuff like that everything that's left can cannot be more than 20 of the total that you charge in premiums and then out of that 20 you got to pay all your employees you gotta like pay for your building and rent and i all the administrative costs", "over is your net profit so the the reason i mention this is because uh schemes like this if they're expecting to make up for all of their inefficiencies by cutting out the middleman what you gain from that is a very small percentage of the total well because the aca has sort of like exiled like large net profits from insurance companies well they haven't really", "is to the point where these insurance companies are double billing not because they're actually charging the patient extra but they're making an illusion as if they are to create that extra charge that and therefore a larger percentage that they can they can reserve well no that would be the opposite effect if you double bill then uh then that's right", "and then that means the 80 percent that you have to like reserve back into like paying out for patients or whatever goes up as well so they're incentivized to do the opposite they're insinivized to sort of under bill so that they that so that that eighty percent like doesn't have to be too large so increasing your revenue like no problem is increasing revenue it doesn't really increase your net profit", "What I learned in a hospital was not practicing lazy medicine gets you the highest profit. And that's exactly what this We The People, uh... whatever-the-fuck is doing. Is practicing lazy meds.", "Adverse reaction therapy. You have a long COVID-therapy? Who's paying for the con... I do! It's a personal doctor fee.", "I'm glad you got that same vibe from this because I fucking knew it was gonna be- Can I have amoxicillin? For my prostate cancer? It's like, that doesn't even fucking cross the prostate blood barrier. Let's also look at this, right? Let's look at This. So... I pay $300 every paycheck for health insurance. My health insurance is absolutely- Is that for you and your wife? Yes. My healt- My health insurace is absolutely amazing. After co-pay, it's 100%- I mean sorry, after deductible,", "It's 100% copay, which means I pay nothing after my deductible and most of my stuff is co-pays as well. So like for example if I go see my therapist it's like a $20 copay. But let's take a look at what they're offering in pricing right? So prelaunch registration, there's a $50 deposit. They are paying $50 in deposits so then if you are single between the ages of 18 to 44", "$80 every month if you are single in between the ages of 45 to 64, $100 a month. And if you were single and in between ages of 65 above 65 or not 65 it's $160 a month alright? And that's not all! If you're a new patient get ready to pay the $150 registration fee um...and then if you want to do a family which includes two adults within the same household with each additional child costing $40", "From 2 to 18 and from 0 to 2 years old at $60 Get ready to pay 240 dollars every month", "credit card my green dot credit card i get from walmart just so just let's just start off just if you got a wife or whatever if you've got like a spouse or whatever you have a spouse for whatever though it's uh you're you're starting off paying um 390 and then 240 every month past that", "if you want expedited appointments, you gotta pay extra. If you want cancer screening and prevention? Extra. Because that's not in the $80 one. You don't get men- men's and women health services in the 80 dollar one.", "They're actually efficient at that. Uh, women's health services, uh... Pap smears, breast exams, family planning services, I don't want to touch anything. nutritional counseling and weight management, mental health and wellness services, virtual consultations, and on-site laboratory diagnostic services. So what they're gonna do is they're going to tell you, hey, you're fucking sick. By the way, they don't include prescriptions in that so good luck getting your fucking prescriptions without health insurance, right? Because my ADHD medication alone costs 300 fucking dollars or more", "You're assuming that they're prescribing medications. No, they want you to go see I am assuming their prescribing medication", "I'm not a medical doctor. I'm also Canadian too, so like yeah You guys actually have real health care up there compared to us Yeah, no absolutely But like I mean, I don't really have much to addict what's aside from what's already been added in terms of like yeah It seems like a really bad Healthcare service if you can even call it a service I sort of echo", "of echo uh icows sentiments that he brought up in their opening statement uh of like maybe this is serving some sort of need uh that is going on fulfilled but it's not a substitute for actual hopefully meaningful reform of the overall system that everyone can access that hopefully yeah it's contributing to the free rider problem right because this can actually work if you're young and healthy", "you when you finally do get sick with an unexpected illness or whatever i'm pretty sure that this organization will say yeah you need to now it's time for you to get insurance because now you really need it and and obamacare will give you all these protections and yeah and they can't they can stop you for pre-existing conditions so it creates a free rider problem where you could be on a system like this until until uh until", "They're not a insurance body. Right, they didn't have any total gift insurance. Of course. No, they can't do that. That's illegal.", "um except for smoking that's the one exception they can charge you more if you're a smoker diabetes and anything that is considered self-cause they're adding long covet to it by the way wait they're", "This thing costs like, just basically if I was gonna go buy it for the pharmacy without health insurance or whatever It cost 300 and some change. That's 300- that's 300 and Some change that you're being charged plus the 240 of being charged a month plus 250 registration fee Like this is fucking insane. Go get health insurance You're gonna be fucking better off. You're going to be better off getting health insurance. You are actually talk to real psychiatrists", "Health and wellness services, but they don't say who's qualified to fucking do that shit. I guarantee you know It's gonna be a bunch of people it's gonna Be immigrants", "Well, okay. Okay. I've signed up people for services similar to this The about us includes no doctors names It could be illegal please someone go watch their tick-tock", "I assume it's the same video that's on their main page. I could be wrong.", "you only see if you are dying. Because that means that your internal organs aren't failing. So, child doctor or death? Your choice. It sounds absolutely base. We should have everyone on this immediately. Are we done? Can we back this one up? No, I'm still mad. To be fair, they do have hospitalization advocacy. They will say that they'll advocate on your behalf for actual healthcare.", "They're gonna send a mental health expert, right? To go with you to the hospital to try and like talk you through depression as you get the hospital bill And realize you can't pay the fucking shit. Then be like it's gonna be okay It's gotta get better I promise. I'll do for $10 you can ask Bam as a reference Okay, okay But their Facebook is wild Yeah, give me your login", "Give me your login for Facebook Oh, you're sharing the screen right now cuz yeah I want to see this five hours ago post that they just did hold up. Hold up Let me let me open discord again", "Oh my god, I wish I could zoom in on this this this Did he hide crack in his pillow?", "Alright look, I don't think I'd want to do the 50s. We might you might sell me on the 80s Okay, just saying but that's all my gosh whether whether are they comments there? You look too United I'm watching the tick-tock Yeah, yeah, okay ships are yeah, you have your have the same expressions like on man If Twitter to seems like good stuff", "Seems like good stuff. No, no seriously, go watch it. Alright I guess uh... That's fucking insane. It's kinda hard not to look at. By the way, it was posted four days ago. What it was? The video on TikTok. Oh yeah!", "I have the- and- and... Right, so- Wait, they don't even have doctors here. That's all stock photos.", "They might have doctors It's a stock photo that's all they're showing here is stock photos of People doing health care these aren't their real doctors doing it. These are just stock photos Showing exactly what they want to show in like Like, you know pediatrician holding a child's arm while taking looking at their pictures like, you", "No way, no fucking way. Oh my god. I reverse searched it? Dead. Hell no.", "at all up here right we can have freedom healthcare here uh just on principle uh but no well we obviously have a public funded health care system that you know i'm proud of but also definitely has its own uh drawbacks but they're at least in my province there definitely appears to be a small growing movement of increased privatization of certain services that has resulted in its own problems and also going back to sort of um a callback to the other topic immigration you know one of the reasons why canada is you know increasing immigration", "You guys have always had a split of private and public healthcare, correct? Because things like plastic surgery and all that have always been private healthcare. Because they're elective in nature.", "primary care. It's been a fairly recent development where it was basically early 2000s, where specific Quebec premier pretty much passed legislation to allow more private health care services. Whatever you do, do not model the single-payer healthcare system off the VA. The VA is probably", "Let me say that try care is the best No, try care. Is not VA I know but I'm still saying try care military shit is Off-the-chain III want I want our health care system to be more like try care Okay for for the non-military people with", "We had Ambetter. Oh, it's amazing! You hardly ever get a bill. You don't get a Bill. Do you have that? I was at the time. Yeah, I'm a Navy brat.", "Did you go to a base hospital? Did you got to a Base Hospital? That's why you never got a bill, you were always within their care network", "I never got a bill, but again, I was a service member so I wasn't a dependent. Whereas me as the-as a dependent, I got a Bill when I got hit with the ER down in frickin Tampa, so like... Wait, I didn't get billed when- When you break your leg and you're not near a maybe hospital, you don't have a choice, you go to the local hospital. Right. Like, I mean it's- But Tricare and the VA are completely different.", "That's two different things. Yes, they are two different- Hold on a minute.", "They're technically being funded in the same way. They're just being horribly mismanaged in one way and not... Well, what I'm saying is don't model it after the VA because the VA fucking sucks. Let me ask a question about the VA, because there are a lot of veterans on this panel, and I'm not one. But I've been told, but there's a couple of veterans that I do know who tell me this, they say that the management problem with the VA has to do with this sort of walled garden approach", "That too many people are kept out of it. Or have to wait long periods of time to qualify for it. Even when you're in the walled garden, they will kick you out of the wallged garden and tell you to go get something else. They'll have horribly long wait times and then they will reschedule your appointment for you and make an even longer wait time for you. Don't cancel it! Don't even call me! It's fucking stupid. From a more macro scale... This is regional...", "So is this like the NHS where the system's good until you get, like, the Tories in for 15 years who then chip away at it and now it's not good? Yes. That is literally being gutted since 1997. And they can't be fired.", "And the doctors cannot be fired. The doctors, no matter how bad they are... When could they start being fired? Because it was a couple years ago they couldn't be fired", "So yeah, they can't be fired. They can't", "This tells me that these are all nurse practitioners. No, not necessarily because as you can see they're very new to the fight. Yeah this is it. That's what I'm saying, you can tell they're still extremely new. They still even have doctors with them. Right right like if you pause right there and you see them trying to do paperwork or either put their packets together", "It's together one of the two like biggest fucking break room. I've seen in my life, but are those doctors or those nurse practitioners? I Guarantee there's a nurse practitioner actually these are secretaries Either that or that person is having a membership tour right now And and you write write writes like here the woman's holding the paper was so like", "Go put on a white jacket go put on the white jacket. We got a membership tour You get what I'm saying you get what the fuck? I'm staying yeah This is still very new hence Why on their page are showing pictures of people like painting and stuff they just opened as far as doctors on the door No, because you don't know when you're this new if your first six hires are gonna be", "I have seen this with new doctors offices here in Arkansas that are just completely normal That they're like, oh yeah we're opening a practice together They don't put their names on the door for the first six months because you never know who's gonna have to leave And if this is going to fail why are they scanning?", "Jack, do you think that they have- That they're eligible for malpractice? I don't mean... Does it feel like they wouldn't be eligible for Malpractice insurance? Well, I mean, they could be medical malpractices.", "I think they're INSPELPRACTICED!", "Because you go to your doctor and it's like that's what the insurance covers But insurers doesn't cover this. Yes, it does medical malpractice all the insurance is not covered as someone who has gone through a medical malpractise suit It does not you guys are Jack can you explain how? Malpractice insurance works in medical malpractices a tort or breach of contract based on health care professional services that were provided", "No, they don't have malpractice insurance. I guarantee it", "No, they probably have to. Well it depends- It's in Florida right? So it's still going to be on the state of Florida. Social workers... We had malpractice insurance on our tags.", "This company is performing fraud, not medical malpractice. This company's performing fraud. You're not gonna catch them on a fraud charge.", "You can't even get the one. I hope it's not them killing someone.", "Based on the way they're offering this service is the only way that's gonna happen and I'll be honest highly likely based on the lay I have read the situation but that is my personal opinion. I can't, I don't have 100% hard fact it's going to be anti-vaccine and they're gonna leave some kid dying of measles or something that is preventable Or a scope of practice violation Yeah Cause I'm betting their nurse practitioners", "Since we earlier had a great deal of fun talking about COVID, just recently in California is... Well, not in California. Just recently it's been announced that most In-N-Out restaurants outside of California will be not allowing their employees to wear masks while in service any longer. I would still do it. But I mean like honestly when I've gone to In-n-Out here", "I'm like when I've gone to in and out here in Colorado, I don't really see the workers really wearing masks anyways. And like when i go in to get my food because we all know it's a lot faster than going through the damn drive-thru Like I'm pretty much like one of the only people in the whole entire restaurant with a mask on everybody else including the workers are all free", "At like you know and I'm just sitting here quietly like hella judging, and I am sure they're judging me right back You know being like. I'm I'm here to get some food. I am not here to eat in this place I'm Here to take my food with my mask and go if you want to wear a mask wear a Mask if you don't want to where master or mask", "So just keep in mind this policy is in Arizona, Colorado, Nevada, Texas, Texas and Utah. Yes, it actually is grounds for termination sprout to wear one. Oh, I mean, unless you have a doctor's note as to why you have to wear it. And by the way, COVID prevention is not an applicable reason from a doctor.", "And a lot of doctors are pushing masks right now and out of embarrassment they're most likely not going to prescribe you the medication that you need. Or not the medication, they're not gonna write that note for you because they're gonna say well you just eat your health and you don't eat it. Hot twist! You become way less healthy than when we get COVID. I didn't know that there were terminating people.", "I don't know how many of the states are listed or at will, I'm actually too annoyed by the first two times.", "It allows employers to, if I- me as a veteran when I was deployed my employer could not fire me. However like when i came back my player could have fired me without cause. Yep. And then I could have sued and then for wrongful termination and the my employer literally could have said oh we fired him without cause we didn't have a cause to fire him we just didn't want him anymore.", "without saying that I was fired for being a veteran, and it just allows companies to skirt around the wall.", "I would assume that it was for like to be anti-union as well.", "The army would take the cost. For free to me, the army would eat that cost not me.", "wear masks and i occasionally wear one depending on the context uh but like it's pretty much up to the individual at this point as far as i know the only company that has threatened it is american-based i would have thought it had been chick-fil-a first but hey you know no chick-film is a good christian company so they probably believe you know you can do whatever you want yeah listen listen lee that's the lord's chicken all right um", "I'm telling you that Chick-fil-a injects something in it That makes it so good to queers and gay people that like we just fucking eat that shit up It is the Lord's chicken How to make chicken, and it is the lord's chicken", "There was a real cute queer girl that delivered my food the other day to my car. I know she was gay", "I've got gaydar with the guys, but like I can tell that woman was queer and I was like Thank you for bringing my food to me. Yes For all the gays at work at Chick-fil-a", "They put that on the books you can also forget about You know, they may want to fighting The context with California when California had prop 8 going on right chick-fil-a and and I am and", "uh what is it the mormon church and everybody was all up in arms in california trying to make sure that like you know gay marriage wasn't gonna be passed oh okay i was about to say yeah yeah this was this was like oh like oh nine yeah this is before game which was past yeah yeah but they're right he's threatening to boycott them too because", "What's too friendly? They're serving gays.", "I'm not. It's like, I may be an asshole but I'm NOT a demonstrably psychotic monster. I'm an asshole, but I am not fucking evil.", "They'll be sitting here telling me. So you got that. Just give them the one. The one saving grace they have is pretty good. I put a link in the course panel chat. People have been unalive for less. What's this, Rich? The link I put in there it's just... There have been multiple times when Chick-fil-A has done something that the right didn't like and the woke police descended on Chick-il-A just like to do any other organization", "do any other organization and uh this is one of those instances the notorious police down yeah anti-woke people was this it was it was this the uh was this they did something about like discrimination or some like that uh they hi they have yeah they have a diversity officer diversity equity inclusion officer yeah that was um but also at other times", "oriented towards not having specific prerequisites for letting people into homeless shelters and things like that. Yeah, they've done... They've also... Here's what it is. If you're an employee of Chick-fil-A... It depends on which member of the Cathy family is in charge whether or not there are... Well no, it has to do with the employees. So employees can get together", "a portion of my money and the money that I raised through other efforts in connecting within the company to go to this organization. And so you'll get employees who give to progressive causes as well, and that counts technically as a Chick-fil-A contribution. And Chick-il-A's home office doesn't stop those contributions. So when one of those contributions gets made, people on their right get mad and say they want to...", "But my advice to all chatters, um... Go- Tomorrow is not Sunday. So tomorrow I want you go to your local uh, local Lord's Chicken restaurant and uh order yourself a Lord's chicken sandwich Um they come in- They come in regular crispy or spicy. I prefer spicy. No pickles! Don't put pickles on your- No pickles.", "No pickles and then- and then no-no pickles and pepper jack- pepper jack cheese, and lettuce, Chick fil A sauce, and some waffle fries? Um... Chick fil a sauce all the way.", "The terms of doku is coming to mind Real quickly before we go to it. I will buy anybody chick-fil-a on Sunday and Sunday only", "I'm gonna sell Chick-fil-A sandwiches on Sunday. So I'll buy like 10 of them and Debate Queen will buy them for you. Uh, so yeah. We got any communists in here? That'd be great. Yeah guys, um, I am basically like pulling 10 hour days just trying to keep this bitch rolling. So number one if anyone wants to you know check me out or support me TiberiusD on a lot of different things", "figure out if I want to do TikTok still anymore. Yeah, got a few things in the pipe that I want", "Have a good one guys! Take care.", "So make sure it's not a Sunday. We're going to feast on the Lord's chicken. Okay, okay from a chef for fucks sake when people come visit you do not take them to chain restaurants You got to be a trouble head. Take them to the hole in the walls that no tourist has ever seen. To be fair I did. No, you take them raising chains Ty did I not take you to a non-chain restaurant? There was a hole in wall. It was great by the way 100% support", "I'll let him promo the place if he wants to. I get a few places. Hey, fuck it! Most people know where I live. It's Main Street Grill. Um...it's-it's a great restaurant. Uh, it's a hole in the wall. Locally owned. It is a great resturant. They serve bar food so... If you like bar food, it is great. They also serve alcohol. So if you like liquid dinners or liquid lunches that's great too. Um, so...", "I actually have it where my city is on mine so like it isn't hidden if you ever want to look up on Twitter or like where I live and wanna bolt your ass all the way out here, I've got a few good places to eat. Doc's party let's go! Yeah straight up no- I mean I've been doxxed twice so... I've only seen one Twitch streamer happen to make their way all the out to me And that was actually Touring News God bless buddy Anyway take care everybody Have a good night", "Take care, Ty. Have a good night! Thanks for being here. Yeah, Clyde, when do you come in Indiana? But before you answer that, to everybody in chat and anybody who's watching... For the love of God, when people come visit you if we're out of town never ever ever take them to a chain restaurant even if it's a local chain restaurant. Take them to local mom-and-pop, support your local... No there's always a diner. You know JBug has only chains", "I guarantee you if i contact a chef buddy there is a hole in the wall that serves food.", "It's not traditional Italian food. It's NOT Italian food, it's like this American concoction of what Italian food is.", "I haven't found one. Like, any time someone's like, let's go to this Italian restaurant, it's not fucking Italian. I'll take you there. I will take you to chain bucca di beppo. That's not Italian food! Buca di Beppo is not Italian. Hey, I put another link in there. This was another Chick-fil-A moment when Chick-Fil-A decided not to give to...", "This was not a business decision. This was them responding to internal pressure from their employees. So you can affect change from within. Well, you can but only when you threaten like a 1500 man walkout. Yeah, yeah. There were people who were saying there were employees who were basically saying as long as Chick-fil-A performs in this sort of way", "were willing to walk out over that and um there was the the segment of their employees that was a that were uh like okay with the bigotry or whatever it wasn't a game changer for them if chick-fil-a didn't give to those organizations so when it came right to it like the external boycott didn't work because it just got more people to go to chick-film you know who are on the right percentage anyways well no i'm", "I don't think- I've never been to a Chick-fil-A or an In-N-Out. Does Canada not have Chick-Fil-A? Come across the border. Does- does Canada not Have Chick-Fil-A though? No. Tim Hortons? Uh, well yeah so if you want to go- Wait, we only got Tim Horton's. I can talk about Tim Horns- Wait does Canada have Chick Fil-A?! Wait, but does Horton's have like any homophobia that you can uh... Actually not that i'm aware of. Excitedly talk about now. Unless we're gonna talk about like you know", "puts in, in Quebec. So I don't know if there's Chick-fil-A in Canada but Quebec is a bit of an outlier. There are Chick-Fil-As in Canada. Probably not in Quebec though. Quebec is A little bit of and outlier Alberta would be the place to put a Chick-Fil-A. And they're opening 20 new locations in Canada by 2025.", "It looks like Ontario, the province of Alberta. That makes total sense. That tracks. So one of the reasons why a lot of American chains don't come to Quebec is because of our language laws. It took actually the longest time for Taco Bell to make it here because Quebec wanted Taco Bell", "People in Quebec look at you like super bad if you don't know French They'll like it looks like super like negative. If you don' t know what if you dont know, what's the French word for taco? Fuck you It's not the talk of this word. It's it's the bell part. Oh, okay", "Okay What would that what did they catch him? See well the fuck you some sort of agreement? Okay, we're like they were able to keep talk about like if it was to be trying to be like a cluster taco Where KFC here is not chaos. It's PFK who lay free Kentucky Yeah, do you know French Like element like my friend just faded over time I'm essentially an elementary French at this point", "For example, I had a friend who got married in Montreal. Literally the marriage ceremony had to be both English and then they had to do it again in French. Oh no, it was like a Catholic wedding? Same thing when we sing the Canadian national anthem. There's a French version. Can you sing the French version? Pardon me? Can you singing the French Version? No. And you probably don't want to hear any singing from me. Sorry, I know what you were saying.", "I always wanted to know, is there a Quebec-Lousiana alliance going on? Like North American people who claim to speak French although they probably wouldn't understand each other if they tried to have a conversation. There's a Quebecian on the way. Yeah, I don't think as far as I know where you are probably correct that... Quebecois Cajun, I guess you'd say. Just generally speaking, so I know I have some friends from France", "and like the French that they speak doesn't mix well with the French we speak here where you know, the actual French people kind of view this as a butcher. Do you think that has value or do you think it would be better if they sort of formalized their French so that the French speaking world could communicate better? They can watch each other's programs all that kind of stuff, you know. That's a good question. It's not like they can't communicate", "It's mostly just like due to the accent and some of the slang. Like totally a Quebecois person can watch television from France. You're not Quebec-wa? Okay. I think it's largely driven by culture. I mean, Quebec culture is at least in my mind as recognized by Canada. Canada is a distinct culturally distinct whatever unique nation within Canada. Can you say something French Canadian for us?", "I'm not qualified to do this. They don't know my mod's here, he's from Quebec. It's just silent right now. No but like Kevin Claus French is grammatically different from Provencial French or KS French or- Bonjour! Ça va? Oh I hear Dee bitch about it all the time. Suriname in French. As soon goto en sus pantalones. Why are your cats in my pants? What?", "Why is there a cat in your pants?", "What's another word for cat in the English language? It cannot be disentangled from your pants. What's a word for a cat in an English language. I can get behind that. Yeah, we know what you're trying to imply. No Aiko doesn't because it said inherently belongs inside your pants It does inherently belong inside your Pants Except it doesn't have that... Listen listen", "that way no you know how corey said he has an elementary version of french it's i got like a preschool version of like spanish okay so very little spanish no no no you have a peggy hill level of spanish so since we have isle here um we're gonna get back to the some of the best employers", "Wait, Isle do you work at Chipotle? I do have to take off though. I know I'm trying- I was trying to- No, I don't have a life. Uh...I just want to say thank you for having me. Yeah go ahead and give yourself an outro. I'm glad you came back. To see what this is. Well if i'm uh i'll always come back if i feel like can actually talk about a topic where Desperado Sensei gave me the topics and like totally like at least from the first one definitely need to talk more confident about that but", "We talked about the hollow moon theory at one point, my friend. The moon is hollow and full of Nazis. It's not for the faint of heart! We go in the trenches when we're talking about it. Nazi hobos! No no I shit you not there is actually a conspiracy that dates back to the 1950s That when we finally were going to get to the moon we discovered that it was hollow, it is a spaceship,", "I'm sorry. I'm Sorry, I heard of it. I've now been informed about conspiracy theory not sure I wanted to know that information but", "information but if i feel like you can talk about that more you know uh then i would glad but like yeah i can't really talk about warhammer but if it's star trek star wars and something oh yeah we could do that totally having a war of the nerds i need one more star trek person for anvil uh if my schedule is available i should be able to accommodate work around it i can schedule it uh but i have to i do have to brush up on some of my star trek but i'm usually pretty yeah on the ball", "down on the ball. You're welcome back anytime, my dude. Before you go, are you caught up on Strange New Worlds? Yeah, I can't do that. I am not. I'm still actually going back to watch Season 3. I've been watching Season 3 of Picard over and over just because I love that season so much. Especially obviously the last few episodes. It's a gift to the fans for sure. But it's definitely on my list and probably in the next couple weeks", "weeks I'll be all cut up. But yeah, thank you again for having me. Super appreciate to be here. And like I said if ever there's a topic that I think we can talk about by all means let me know and I always try to make room for my schedule. You can find me on Twitch twitch.tv CoreyCampbell84 and Twitter Instagram it's Corey Campbell. And thank you everyone. Super appreciated. And until next time Peace out. Take care. Be well.", "So, can we acknowledge that California...", "Yeah, that's what I heard yeah, he and he was trying to say you but like you didn't say too and I'm like Yeah, no. He said sue which is the formal now? That's the formal it also means you but it just it's it's the third person sort of like No one talks formal in Spanish", "I don't know. Spain. Yeah, if you go to Spain. Well, we don't acknowledge Spain. We're not acknowledging the language they still have a king as a J. I don' t want to hear it. They sound like they're sucking dick whatever they're talking about. Spain Spanish so much. And if you here's something you'll appreciate is a chef. If you ask for a what are those? If you asked for an empanada, they'll pull out a whole pie and", "pie and like give you a slice instead of like a hand pie well that's what you get like it's technically regional uh if you go to morish spain you will get something closer to a handpie it's more like the size of a calzone though it's fucking huge oh but delicious it was delicious that's all i know i mean i love empanadas down here but i also really liked getting a slice of meat pie mexico they'll be about gay bake um", "In Spain, especially when you get down You know coast where you can technically see it with a fucking telescope. They're about gay big and about that thick So they look more like I was in the north of Spain because I was doing the Camino de Santiago so everything was to like on the North Coast But it was yeah, there's delicious and there actually wasn't a lot of good food on the pilgrimage. So I really enjoyed this", "You guys know this, but most of the people on the panel do not. Definitely not in the chat. Yeah, I can't do it. But I spent some time in Africa learning to cook there and funnily enough one of those places I was was in Liberia and it's a hop skip and jump over to Spain. It's like a two hour boat ride so we did that trip quite often back and forth to get ingredients and sometimes just to get good food. The beaches are better.", "The beaches are better over there. Neat! Yeah, California is- Well it's not really- well it's just that the standard has changed okay? We have all these-", "I can't actually keep my fingers still anymore because i have broken my fingers enough literally all it would have taken is an extremely bad screen when she was a kid in her pinkies and it could have completely changed the way her joints were yeah don't you know like I totally fucked up my hands when I was five and now I can do that shit", "in the right direction too you can have to train your brain more because when i was a kid i remember like having to practice this is as much as i could do it there we go but can you yay it did take me a long time to get to the point where i could", "neuroplastic training that has to happen to get the control for that. Y'all try to do this shit. Y'see, y'all tried to do a fucking quadruple. Practice is key. My finger just hurts so bad. Spinning a pen took me like months to practice. Yeah I can't do that either. I am not breaking out the trick that I do because that would require me to break out a knife and that's gonna get us banned on Twitch.", "Like you do the I don't know what it's called", "What? Damn. And how many fingers did you damage beforehand? How many strikes? Oh, no, no. You take a long time before you speed up like that. How many strokes? 290 in 12 seconds. And... That's 24 seconds. I have no idea what this thing is you guys are speaking on. It's like the knife goes chop, chop,", "No, it's not that I've seen it in the movies. I've been it in person", "fucking jean-claude v and there's somalian pirates but rather than seeing people play that shit in actual bars where they're using the fucking you know yeah everyone's fucking drunk as fuck trying oh look at like the dew that game darts and bars that game goes back to the 1600s what yeah that game is old wait what about quarters um quarters i believe was a game called", "Is that where you hit each other in the knuckles? Yes. God, I had a friend who would just swing that shit. The things we used to do before smartphones, let's cut that shit out. This is my favorite Trotskyist rather than Jack. Nuclear war...", "I've been waiting for Clyde to pop off this whole time. I did what I told- who did I? Did I tell Ty that I shot his BTS up? Who'd I tell? Uh, it was Sprout. You told everybody you was gonna be fucking up some people's... Because Jack didn't even ask! Oh yeah, Jack was popping off in chat earlier.", "We the people, uh... health care is, you know. They're all about freedom of choice in your healthcare I guarantee you they do not provide abortion services", "I think we're gonna find out how it's like going to Like like going there or like looking up like the business from like whatever Florida registry There is to figure out what who the doctors are. That's the only way", "That's the only way that I can get a public registry Yeah, but like when I did that like cuz I recently switched over to Firefox Welcome not not now all I have to do is like right click and click inspect and it pops up But like I was not able to find a single name attached to that website anywhere Anywhere. I could find a name attached so the address because I was attached addresses But like as far as like the website nothing", "the people that are going to... Your wife's badass MVP of the night. It's our ivermectin taking brothers and sisters is who I assume will be taken for a ride with this particular issue. Like I said, if you look up the name of the person who holds the title of the fucking property it's the life of a fucking hedge fund manager.", "Wait, why did this move around so much in Wintour?", "I'm sure you do. I make it a rule never to trust links from Isle until I've looked at them first. What do you know, Pornhub? Hey, baby! You're talking about the person who runs your Lake Avernus website. I really need to download the PornHub sound for my soundboard because that would have been perfect.", "I mean also in a blood flame right in the middle like it should be The perfect alibi You send it yeah, the city of Venice did what?", "Well yeah, because I didn't have this one saved up. What the f- He's gonna say it later but basically he's saying", "disorders that he's going to bring up on a podcast in like a week same who you don't see me using it to advertise oh i don't feel like he even needs out of vertis man at this point but maybe did you put them in the panel honey no we d end it to me okay hold on i'll open it there we go where's this girl neurodevelopmental disorders and learning disabilities are rob", "are rob oh rob mcneely i mean i have learning disabilities but i will never admit to having learned well it's because of the simple fact that like", "are mean and you know and so i'm like you know i'm why should i be like shamed for having a learning disability or being different around you know I feel you i'm brown and disabled too but like this is kind of an issue i feel you we're on the same path kids um especially in", "for behaviors that come from undiagnosed neuro and... Divergencies. Yeah. I want to say bipolar is super undiagnoized, as well as ADHD. Oh yeah! And autism.", "My mom protested and was like, you're not holding my child back from a grade. No, no, you are not. So I went on to the next grade but that's real. Still not confronting the reason why. And if we would confront the reasons why more kids have these learning disabilities than did in previous generations to our knowledge or maybe they did too. We didn't even have testing for this at that time so now you can get tested, you can see what is going on and acknowledging these things will help these children have a better future.", "Yeah, I mean like I was diagnosed in like fourth grade fifth grade You know and so then that like carried me through pretty much high school. Um, I was always in special education Classes up until high school and then they were too fucking easy for me And i was like, I don't want to be in these stupid classes gifted and talented No, no, i'm just no just special education classes", "education classes right and so basically we put you with gifted and talented if you uh like and then like yeah and then so i was like i think this these classes are too easy and then at that time like i was put into regular education classes which was great you know but i was", "Yeah, I would get in trouble for advocating for myself. You know?", "whole life and then this year i found out i may have a little bit of tism like that's real i mean like even at college right i had special things yeah like that extra time yeah the extra time is freshman fucking good okay that extra so that's why i'm pretty happy", "that a lot of people recognize he's a very successful individual i think he's waiting for the right moment like i don't i'm not gonna be bad faith in what he's doing oh it's during an episode yeah he's like actually going to address it to a large audience on this broadcast because most people is pretty big and the podcast is big yeah well because it's yeah because", "Like that they had a podcast as well. Yeah, I didn't use it. Well, damn. Cut that. Cut the half of it. I mean, that's the thing. There's podcasts that none of us have ever heard of that have 12 million views and got a subject you've never given a rat's ass about. It doesn't mean shit though. Cool Shitters. Thank you for tuning into the Pool Shitters Podcast.", "Oh, the pool shitters. Where did that come from? Destiny debating Gavin McGinnis. Did you convert to turf? No. Convert to turf. I think we're going to become good friends. How do you do this? You can be a disagree and still have nice conversation with him. Exactly. You've got to remember... No, here's the thing. She's not a turf.", "not a turf. She's not a TERF, okay? So what I didn't know going in is she's like ultimate gender abolitionist so she's not at TERF. It's not that she doesn't think trans people. She is anti-women men and trans as a descriptor. She just a gender abolitionists so it's not... Well, I don't know. But yeah but she's out of TERF also keep your friends close but your enemies closer. It much easier to bleed them dry", "That's why it came out swinging I was like wait hold on I need to see a therapist now It's okay, like I'll figure I would have grump sway gender abolition is fucking stupid and retarded Also sprout said what did you say? me got though Seuss pantalones There's a pussy in his cat or there sorry he's saying", "He's saying cat in his pants, but he's talking about Poseidon being a weirdo. Who says that? Put the mother of pizza with a cool little. That sounds about right. You know, the first sentence that you learn, you know, in Spanish and California all how to say all the curse words.", "What curse words? I just called him white asshole. The first sentence I learned in Japanese was, uh... I don't know anything that you said. Uh, it's what color are your underwear? Why would you be asking? It's the first sentence", "You could walk up to a random person in France that was born between 1980 and now, and just say, where is Brian? You're going to see a huge smile. And they'll be like, I prepared for this my whole life. And then they're like, Brian is in the kitchen! And then They don't know anything else. Or you go like, it's raining outside. And They'll go, where's my umbrella? Yeah, that was wild. Right. That was like Rich was saying that Seuss is formal. I was like nobody uses formal Spanish", "Spanish Jack was like these it's faded I was like yeah so like me even me when I was in like Madrid like good luck like they're looking at me like I'm dumb as fuck cuz I can make the go no that's just like you're talking about Catalan right yeah like that's different that's wrong Barcelona but like Mexico we speak", "I also had an argument in our house between my Mexican Salvadorian roommates about what fresca meant. It means fresh? What you call juice. I'm sorry, do you think fresca means fresh?? I thought it did. It does mean fresh. It doesn't.", "It's funny because English evolved the opposite way. So like, the word you is a plural and the singular was thee. Well here in California we have agua frescas all over the place. Which isn't juice by the way. Is it slice? It's not juice. Okay so big thing what is queso fresco?", "Fresh cheese? Very young, immature fresh cheese. Wait is it dark for the cheese how old this is? This is going like off my understanding of- My minimal understanding of Latin where I'm getting this shit. Wait are we doing the Agnus Anu- Agnuss- No no no no like literally fresca fresca like it's like this is just... I keep forgetting you don't speak Spanish Spanish. Cause then there's Spressa.", "I don't speak Taco Bell menu. Do you speak English? I speak shitty Arkansas Mexican. Fresa is strawberry. I swear they're arguing about fresca. Listen, I drink some really good fruit juice. This is an example. You know when other people of color say that like you're just white when you're Hispanic? They're talking about people like Clyde.", "Wait, are you streaming? Yeah. Yes. I wanted this connective so bad but I can't do that. You opened your mouth and said that. I did this knowing I had plot armor. You know what? Because I'm chaotic neutral and unpredictable.", "and unpredictable. So this person's paying for your actions, okay? See that? That was your fault, Leapy. I did this. I killed this person. You killed Tera of the Age. Are you going to sacrifice Isle? No, I like Isle more than... I'm pretty sure she selected randomly. Yeah. Could have been any of us. I don't dislike Isle. I just assumed it would be me. I want to have a good kick. Actually, I don' think I dislike anybody in here except for Vigilante. Well, I didn't wanna be kicked. You disliked Vigileite.", "How could you possibly dislike vigilante? Just people with IQs that low. Oh my god. Ancom is more tolerable than vigilante. Even ancom would be like, okay maybe killing half the population in a revolution to instill my moral viewpoint as superior is a bad thing. Why didn't I get to pitch our boomer concentration camps? We have them they're called old folks homes. Geez duh.", "You gotta remember who's working at these places, right? People in our age bracket. We control whether or not these old fuckers live or die.", "It's gonna be a very fun day for me. I only know one phrase right? I know I only no one thing Is Korean Ichiban Japanese? Ichiban is Japanese This is the only thing I know in Japanese", "any new licenses issued in the past year. So from July 2022 through today, looking for anyone that is anywhere close to that address. I can't find anyone at that address The closest address I can find is a fucking dentist. So these people have no licensing at that", "Just say they're based out of Florida. Yeah This not another argument just for us to do the dig dug thing here and put Florida into Cuba I just had a map Break off in flow the way, you know, just somebody everybody get your drills out somebody We all just jump at the same time", "go to florida i want to point out this includes every form of uh like healthcare licensure so it includes uh pharmacy techs it includes nurses paramedics dentists massage therapists like this is every possible license for like any form of health care even tangentially related", "A single person registered. Because I can tell you why. Why? Because they've changed names and corporations over and over again. A rotating door of falsehoods that you cannot penetrate, really, unless you have government-level power. Esmeralda, how hot is it in Japan right now? Hot. Do you want it in Celsius or Fahrenheit? You don't ask me questions like this. You're insulting me. Tell me in American.", "I needed an American. Give it to us in Celsius, let everyone do their own conversion. Okay, sounds good. It's about 35 degrees outside with like 95% humidity. Oh, 95%. That is rough. We had torrential rain last night so it's... That's nice. 95 degrees? Oh my god. 90%... I have Google.", "Google That's still hot as balls. Oh good, it's 11 o'clock at night where I am It's still 90 degrees and it's 80% humidity So yeah, I haven't got the luxury of his rain and they still have the humidity It's 73 California wasn't Tyler When I looked at the 28 see fuck you though so two days ago", "index of 152. The scale only goes to 136. That was actually southern Saudi Arabia, I believe because that was at the... That was at an airport, I think. The Iran airport? The Gulf airport, yeah. Oh, never mind. Yeah, I got my... For some reason when I looked at the map, I thought the body of water right there was the red", "Cycling. Because I've read all this shit, especially the COVID shit yesterday. That's why I was like they had to release that. Don't question me with sources. I bring sources. If I may forget my brain, I always bring them links. Still not a bitch. 73 is hot, especially when there's humidity and I don't like that. You are a bitch! And I'm about to send you my California picture?", "a picture just so that you know it's 91 here coming for you y'all can just come here get yourself some uh in and out richard's got me enjoy the japanese community i want to talk about the eight now i'm going to talk", "So yes, I think that it's perfectly reasonable for this request Seeing as before like a couple years ago we had the complete inversion where there was a mask mandate and people were fine with that. No, I'm just saying that an employer has the right you know of their business if they want to have a mask", "about wearing masks in a food industry where the virus yeah via aerosol droplets yeah and they most likely aren't having a filter system listen we didn't think about mask eight years ago we don't think", "I didn't know there was an In-N-Out in Wuhan. I'm sorry. We were talking about masks in Asia. I don't want to deal with that shit. Bush was actually really good", "about that outbreak like he was very supportive of cdc can i be honest what my thought process when covet happened in america when kovic was coming to america so i was seeing covid in china and i didn't know it was already in amerika a bunch of pets so in my head i was like oh well we've already dealt with sars but we didn't really feel that we uh had ebola come through with obama we didn' t really feel like we're america we're gonna be cool i was", "think ebola does what do you think happens when you catch ebolo oh yeah your organs melting yeah", "They're registered to a construction company. Only three people died during that first Ebola issue. They were registered by a person who runs a construction. Or two people died. And so after that, they created an entire branch to deal with this. It was the epidemic response team and fucking Trump abolished it. Wait, is that what we just", "We just built in Denver Is it Denver that we have the new Infectious disease center? Um, I don't know after Ebola. We got like a two billion dollar Senate bill Or forget NIH we had NIH offices in there too so those five agencies that were in And around Wuhan that all got cut in 2018", "Oh yeah, that's what I was reading earlier. It officially went through to where the finger pointing is happening and I'm just like fuck we're never going to know when this started. It's been of my opinion that the Trump administration opened us up to severe calamity by removing or gutting these agencies without doing a good check on why these agencies exist before removing them. He's on tape saying hey", "saying hey there's we're not there's never going to be a pandemic so what's the point in doing this thank you just drink bleach just inject bleach and uv oh he never said inject bleach to be honest and fair he never", "He was asking if there were any way to use bleach as a disinfectant. But he didn't say inject it. No, he said inject. That's what we're talking about. We also said the same thing about sunlight. Injecting something into people's blood. And I was like actually there is a treatment where you essentially extract somebody's blood and run it through UV light", "v-line essentially yeah do that to every single person well yeah he said yeah he's got injections sequencing data is showing that sars cov2 likely spent about the last 30 years in a bat and samples from the west mark the white market show that it was likely a raccoon dog intermediate interhumans i told you it was a chinese human it was", "Oh my god, I didn't need to hear that. So the Trump quote was this he said I see the disinfectant that knocks it out in a minute one minute Is there a way we can do something like that by an injection inside?", "No, he didn't yeah, well yes works if thought you were there He would have corrected him immediately but it was Burks and Burks was too polite to do that She just kind of smiled and so she didn't respect It was a mistake telling Trump what to do Yeah, that was the thing like there was a balancing act with both of those people and", "Berks is terrible at it because she thought she had to praise him in order to keep her job there. And she thought, well, it's better with me inside than outside. Fauci played a similar balancing act but his balancing act was a lot more balanced. He didn't agree with anything that Trump said that was ridiculous. He would always correct them. Even those funny eye rolls in the back whenever he said something dumb.", "whenever he said something dumb. But with Berks, she would outright praise him and say that he responded extremely well in this circumstance when he didn't. Wouldn't he not read off the scripts? Yeah, that's the problem. If he was reading out of the script, then he'd do okay. But as soon as he got off the script that's when you've got stuff like this. This dude would fall asleep during briefings. They had to make picture charts. He had to paint by numbers for briefings", "was a visual learner get the out of here listen i'm not defending him i'm just saying that's what he would say i'm sitting here just going listen i wasn't paying attention to like 95 percent of this shit i was doing when i was working as a head of it like nine times and about the head of a damn country come on dude we gotta address chat because yes saving lives is important to me but trump cannot save lives he harmed lives", "an organization in like if we had if those five offices were still in asia and were able to do the job that they did in 2002 2003 with sars if they could have repeated that process we might have avoided it entirely but we had a president who said this is a waste of money or we shouldn't be doing this china's like a competitor like we shouldn'd be helping them with pandemics we should like you know if anything", "Like that's the shit he would say. And so... China owns his ass. How is he safe? Yeah, I mean it was... So I addressed the chat on that. I said you do that shit at the White House with professionals that have been called into a room privately. You don't do that in public and fucking give people an idea that this isn't something you could be doing. I ask my stupid questions to Sam offline off stream because I don't want to perpetuate misinfo and stupid shit.", "especially when I'm talking medicine and science, I am very fucking careful discussing medicine and scienc because I am not going to be responsible for someone hurting themselves or spreading misinformation because that is a responsibility of mine is to educate and provide the best knowledge possible that i can give people to make sure they're taking care of themselves and their pets so if you are someone with absolutely no health background", "Listen, there were many conflating factors of why it spread.", "widespread, not just with Trump. And I think that you know what? On net, I think he did as good a job as anybody probably could have in his position and I think well somebody was doing that job before him and that person didn't cut those five offices in China and stopped Ebola and Bush in fact helped set up a lot of those offices in china as well especially the CDC and the NIH", "Yeah, that was a blunder. I'm not gonna say it wasn't a blund-er but I'm saying that you know... It was a Blunder that cost 1.1 million lives like... Yeah, I thought to say you're okay with people dying the same way like them not masking at In and Out? You're saying no, I think I think it's a different thing between a global pandemic and in and out having uniform requirement. We are still in a global pandemics. So what if a local doctor volunteered to give notes to anybody who wanted them?", "Okay, he declared not this is what I mean by presidents do not dictate medical care the same way that idiots don't dictate medical Care but I like this example. What's happening? Listen, so what Biden said it I will have to I'll have to agree with it because he's my president okay Would you could so what if a doctor just goes to every in and out and says hey if anybody wants a note? I can write you one right now totally do that That's your right as a person You can have a doc they said a doctor's note isn't except", "It would take one doctor to do that. I don't think like, I think it's fine if anybody wants to doctors or anybody who works there wants to wear a mask. If I work with could wear one just like out of defiance, like exactly and be like, Oh, I mean, my doctors are not masking. Doctors are not going to be writing these mass protocols because they're going along with the narrative of the pandemic over what you're about to see another week.", "I thought you just said that politicians, like doctors and whatnot need to go- need to do the health thing and not the politicians. Now you're saying that doctors are in on it? Like what- First of all, when did I say that doctors were in on It? And two, I didn't criticize the medical field because I work in the medical- You just said they're not gonna sign mask notes because they're masking cuz they wanna play into the narrative that COVID is over. You just that that. Yes. That's not- Okay then you- okay so how- so our doctor or a doctor's not medical physician", "professionals dealing with a health crisis if they're the ones saying, actually, COVID is over. They've been brainwashed by idiots in power. This is why politicians should not dictate or open their fucking doors about healthcare. But you just said that the health officials are saying it. No, the health officers are doing what the people paying them to say and do because that is how our healthcare system is driven these days. Okay, so why are the doctors going along", "Because they don't give a shit about you. They need to know about it so that they can fix it. If you didn't get rid of Addison, just grow up and go. You're literally... The politicians don't", "The solution is... The solution does not be that.", "That's all of our taxes, that's how we pay into it. Yeah but just because I pay taxes doesn't mean I get to go to the Federal Reserve and make a deposit okay? That has nothing to do with the Federal Res- IT'S TAXES BITCHIT! Personally your taxes you pay are probably not the bulk of what is going So you wouldn't rather be more healthy because everyone else around you is healthy", "You're also at the same time not wasting money on shitty insurance that you'll never see the investment back from whereas if you're investing in a Group pay system. Guess what your investment comes? Who's administering this money because like it's not just you paying some money and then automatically you're just making up here work so you want to ask for every single Detail", "the money is the fundamental thing. The people that need the money. Patience. Patients. Patient. So I gotta write a check every month to a patient in need? Is that what you're saying, patients get the money? Yes, that's exactly what you have to do. You actually have to donate the organs, not your money.", "We would be saving money if we were able to focus on preventative care first and foremost instead of trying to like focus on the disease afterwards. There's no reasoning around it, that's a fact. Okay so will you admit in a single payer healthcare system that single payer would be the government? No its not the government.", "Who is this entity? Your mom. Because there's no way to make your fucking smooth-ass brain understand this concept because we have had this combo over and over again. Are we giving money to just charity? Yes, we're paying Satan to murder all the boomers. Okay. Nope, let me not say that. That's at least a answer. You're gonna do satanism, sacrifice the boomer for... Yeah, I'm gonna do Satanism on the boom. The more you push", "you push for this aisle the more i push for that listen if you want damn it single player we have to admit who is the thing a random guy writing a check too if he can't i'm in a multi-payer system and it works a ton better than then what is it the system they have in the united states true it's not even full city it's", "And a lot of people in Japan also have AFLAC too to help them with their medical bills and stuff. I actually have a life insurance plan with SBI, and that also helps cover what is it? What is it insurance for cancer so if I'm to get cancer I get a specific amount of money per day What is while I'm in the hospital and stuff and a certain amount of? Well, it's something simple", "it's something simple like like basically aflac does that yeah yeah but but it's not just affleck like sony does it sbi does it aflacc does it like there are like like 12 to 15 different companies that offer private health insurance for things related to like cancer in japan right cancer is going to go in", "The fucking system rolling. Because you have the baseline- I don't want to hear from you right now, or I will turn around and smack the shit out of you because I'm not in the mood. Okay? I need people who don't know healthcare to pipe the fuck down today. Back to it. No one knows about healthcare. I'm so glad that I'm on here. No, you don't", "What do I know about healthcare? I love being a mod.", "room because I forgot and forgot my insurance card, and getting MRI scans in order. And all of that was less expensive than all the stuff that I had insurance for in the United States. Damn! Yep. Yes, and I snapped my kneecap in half. Oh, Jesus. That's a rough injury, man. I understand it.", "I was in the hospital for about that long after I broke my leg. So, yep, I feel that but I had Medicare so you know?", "like on a regular basis. When I broke my kneecap, it was like once or twice a week for the first month and then after that, it's once a week after that. So all of that cost added up. I think I paid in USD, I think i paid after three months of care maybe $1,000. It's not bad. Yeah definitely could have been worse being here in America. Oh and they replaced- I know your jaws are broken right now. They replaced the cast", "that went from my ankle all the way up to my hip every two weeks. The boot in the US would be $1,000 itself. Yeah, I know. Do you know how much I paid to go to the emergency room to get a scan done on my chest? Like a specific machine that they had? And I forgot my insurance card. Do", "It's a hundred bucks with insurance in America.", "No, this is a family physician. That is insane. Yeah, ambulance is like $1,400. Do you believe in the money they make and spend it on their own health? Well that would work if people would actually invest in their own wealth. The amount of money I have to pay every month is about $500 a month but my employer covers 250 of that every month and I only have to do 250 of them.", "Like half and half. You go half C's too. Yeah, so if you take that into account what is it then over the course of a year that is like under 3k? That I actually pay out over the", "if i if i wanted to if i decided that the only doctor that i wanted was a doctor that was in okinawa and i decided I wanted to get on a plane and fly to Okinawa to see this one specific doctor it's covered the plane yeah yo my not the plane ticket but going just checking just checking reverse your travel and accommodations well since you gotta get on", "This is why my business is so bad.", "When I got my Medicaid, I now have like a pharmacy thing that says it has free over-the-counter medicine. Is that like that? Like it covers Sudafed? Well no, Japan has specific laws in place that doesn't allow for more than five times the total cost of whatever they produce You can't charge more than 5x the total costs of the actual production of the item This includes all the admin logistics and all of that kind of stuff", "is making like if someone yeah well if someone's making like ibuprofen or something like that like and you're getting like the like the prescribed version of ibupropan not off the shelf then they can't charge like more than like like a dollar fifty for like a small bottle i'm gonna be honest it needs to be put there needs to", "Why private insurance isn't the demon that you think it is, is because you have to understand how short-staffed we are in the healthcare system. The steps that we're gonna have to take in order to get to the systems that we want. Because yeah eventually we'll have a single system but you know what? We're so fucked that we've got to start digging and putting our stairs somewhere.", "start with a system that we semi already have i mean well are we're all already paying taxes out the ass we're off already having insurance so guess what the basic insurance covers preventative care make sure make sure it makes sure that everyone is a baseline healthy so that we don't have all these people sniffing and sneezing", "That's what I've been wanting to say this whole time. Thank you, Claude!", "oh but there's people that care um i was one of those people i tell you right now i don't give a about helping people with the way that we've been treated i don' want to save you that's why i chose animals not humans because there is i see nothing worth saving when someone's telling me that i only care about money and the bottom line what i am literally hands on deck trying to plug holes so they don't bleed out like", "Like, people expect the kindness that they spit on you for. Because they don't give a shit so if you don't get a shit I don't gonna shit But I ain't dying for you. Already got heart- already got heart damage from idiots. I ain' dying for anyone Especially when we're not wearing masks. Hell yeah. Holy diein' for me. Probably in a stupid way", "Yeah, that's true. Well no it actually is easy.", "unhealthy food expensive and healthy food affordable it's easy for you to think jack but i'm on my little rage boat here because i'm so fucking tired of being like no no when i say it's not gonna work yeah uh i'm talking about taking the giant bagel slicer to a few executives we should get sam in here to talk about the fatty mcfat tax", "two plane tickets by the guess is probably something to do with like the sugar tax or something something similar pretty much pretty much it's a sugar tax for sure basically yeah anything we're just not subsidizing sugar i'm implementing which is really important let's just uh stop subsidizing all corporations how about that let's let's", "sugar. Okay. Corn is also like a big... I didn't know that. They actually get more subsidies for sugar from beets than they do from cane sugar. Interesting. Well, that's for sure. Because we do corn instead of cane sugar here. But are corns also worthless here? Most sugar comes from... Yeah, we grow sugar in Florida.", "florida on the regular there's florida sugar like on shelves you know and they also burn their land too which also harms the environment and people there but what aiko is talking about is high fructose corn syrup which is used as well as an alternative sweetener to sugar has the same caloric content but it's cheaper because of how heavily we subsidize corn in the country", "Almost 60% of the grocery stores are fructose sugars.", "that is it if you just keep well, that's not going to work. Put your big old panties on and take a step forward because right now we're not working. We've got to do something. But of course, if you want to stop the corn subsidies then um... Then you lose a lot of swing voters in states where there's a lot farmers that benefit from that. So that's why... Iowa, Indiana, Ohio, you're gonna lose a LOT of people in those states.", "Yeah, and right now more importantly Wisconsin. Well like Wisconsin is a big farming state you're gonna see that in Minnesota to some degree too That's because those are swing states. With core subsidies it would probably cause a fucking famine Well you need to minimize the disruption by making it gradual I need you to explain this to me because in the United States with the amount that we produce", "amount that we produce, we export 90% of what we produce in the United States. And this is all goods. We only use domestically about 10%. So the corn that we're actually like using in the united states is like brought in from Brazil. So it's worth noting as an example, like Ty was on the panel here, the corn, that Ty was growing in his farm when he goes to sell that to the mill or whatnot, or to like the silo", "silo that silo is then going to turn around and sell it to some other place in the world yeah they're not gonna use it it's worth noting that the vast majority of corn grown is not used for for edible purposes in the u.s all right i think so like 80 percent of corn in the us has grown from but did you listen", "use 10%. Everything else we need to import. I was addressing to Vigilante, not you Desperado. So the eggs that we produce in Arkansas will get eggs from Montana. Like, you will never get an egg from Arkansas in Arkansas. We import a lot of shit. Bro. The way our food system works is super inefficient.", "super inefficient. Yeah? So what are you going to do to fix it? I just went on like a 10 minute rant about people coming up with, well this isn't going to work. How are you gonna fix it. Good luck trying to fix the legislatively. Like somebody pointed out, you can't run... I don't know shit about legislation. I do education. Well, you cant run on that because you're going to lose half the states and the other half is the other third of the states", "not farmers, but are let's say cattle herders or some other type of thing that's adjacent to it are also going to go for that shit. Because if you fuck them there's only next when you come for their shit is how they're going to think about it and even if you did vote a president in that would do that. It's never getting through the house because we just want our problems with presidents these people because this is a federal because it's a federal problem. You don't solve cop problems with the presidents, but you solve federal money with presidents and Congress", "in congress yeah so i'm solving the food problem by educating people so that they know what to demand and ask for healthy food especially with corn a lot of crops lack uh nutrition especially for court i 100 agree with that uh laws i was only pointing out that you're not going to solve it probably legislatively no time soon uh yeah education is probably a good way", "is probably a good way, but it's going to be a long road way. It's going", "candy bag yep yeah and that's the whole reason the food industry started doing it because people buy more with sugar and it's worth noting that sugar does have a like pretty significant addictive potential as well and it is one of those things like caffeine and alcohol and nicotine that is you know legal but still has", "there is a reason sodas and candy and all of the stuff that has massive amounts of sugar, whether that be sucrose or fructose-glucose combinations like in HFCS, is because that stuff triggers the dopamine cycle in the brain that actually creates those sorts of addictive effects. We're all way more depressed than we actually think we are. I mean,", "I guess. Especially if I know that it breaks down into toxic materials?", "that is being absorbed by our neurons because of all the sugar we're eating, it could be contributing to neurotransmitter deficiencies that things like SSRIs and NDRIs are trying to treat. So it very well could be that the mass amount of sugar is actually leading to the sort of depressive symptoms that we're seeing a lot in people in the US. My God. And just hypothesized why people are so fucking stupid.", "fucking stupid oh you're getting stupid because more people are getting re-infected by not wearing masks and guess what covid causes brain damage everybody's fucking crazy right now i mean we had brain damage long before coven let's just i don't know i'm not gonna lie there's a lot of people there's", "to lose a couple brain cells, to cope and survive. That makes sense. Takes brain damage to fix brain damage. New Zealand wants lower gas prices. Everyone wants lower price prices. Unless you live in California. Oh wait, dollar per kilogram? I forgot they all measure... Californians don't want lower gas price?", "Measures it by kilogram not by length. Well I guess Lethe doesn't care about lower gas prices. This is meat. No he's got a, he doesn't have a... Wait do you drive? Oh wait don't give him electric. No, he has uh, he hydrogen. Do you have a hydrogen car, Lethe? Yes. What?! How common is that? You must not be able to go very far. I'm coming to visit you just so I can go ride in your car.", "And then and then I want to go fill up your car cuz that shit looks cool Wait, how does it feel? Well this YouTube videos on Yeah, you're just you're Just filling up a compressed gas tank. And when I say guess I mean like the phase of matter not the short Yeah", "use combustion to actually do that. It uses a form of essentially reverse electrolysis where it has basically the electrons are able, or sorry, the electrons aren't able to pass through a certain semi-permeable membrane but the rest of the atom is and so the electrons go the long route which creates that electric circuit creating... So hydrogen cars are effectively electric cars", "cars. They run purely on the electricity generated by recombining hydrogen and oxygen into water, so there's no combustion in that engine. And then that water comes out the tailpipe. By the way, there's a whole hobby market for converting gasoline cars into... Rich, I can't tell if you're joking or not because your cam's off. No, I'm not kidding. The only exhaust is water vapor. Well, just water. Straight-out water. So that's the best car to have in a desert because", "The amount of water you get out of that tailpipe is minuscule.", "Water out of a tailpipe of a hydrogen car would actually be incredibly clean. You're talking distilled water. Actually drinking too much of that would cause health problems because of the lack of minerals. Distilled water tastes terrible, too. Oh, it comes off the stove? You've got to have some minerals in water for it to taste decent. It's also an energy requirement like compressed hydrogen gas. And salt. A little bit of salt in the water needs to... Distilled Water tastes horrible. Yeah, I know. I've accidentally drunk it before because I have distilled", "my computer's trust me as uh feed for meat is our biggest subsidy seven billion dollars yeah most most corn that goes to non-human uh feed either goes to producing things like uh high fructose corn syrup ethanol or most of it goes to animal feed also fun fact what's in your pet food", "This is why it's recommended that you give your dog a good wet food every so often to help", "wait did you say go grain free or no grain free sorry i could no green free absolutely no brain for dogs for cats even though cats are mainly meat-based uh okay i don't like the trade requirements having no antibiotics ever in your meat that to me screams zoonotic disease because that is exactly how people get salmonella from backyard chickens and", "because wild birds, people don't know how to maintain them so they're not kept in coops. So wild birds are spreading avian fluenza to your chickens and salmonella and that's why you've been shitting their brains off for two weeks.", "still be given antibiotics earlier in their life if they get sick but unfortunately a lot of uh a lot like livestock farms these days have been using antibiotics prophylactically which is also a huge problem and then they just don't 500. but then i think avian cooper had healthy events of weight loss no that's tapeworms that's people ordering tapeworm pills", "But no, this is no antibiotics ever. I understand the clearance. That's what I'm like in New Zealand. No, our farmers do not comply with new antibiotics because as an animal science and poultry science major well, I'm animal science major, poultry sounds minor. Not treating with antibiotics is a big deal. That means that your shit isn't infected. I eat raw beef and venison. That' s what wrong with you brain grumple.", "oh so it's not just the crayons or the glue have tapeworms and equal life and salmon ella deep records antibiotics we use whatever required they just don't go to the arbitral yeah no", "money for meat okay so this is a great- okay, so you're talking about heat grading per sale. So this is where you get the fun little uh labels of non-gmo antibiotic free and no hormones ever even though all living things have fucking hormones but yeah there isn't", "that's bought, even the stuff you grow. The seeds you get to grow in the ground to grow your own shit have all got hormones in them that give to the cattle. There is no feeding regime anywhere that does not have hormones in it. Not to mention a hormone is actually an incredibly diverse category of chemical and found in just about everything because every living being uses hormones", "in some capacity for intracellular communication. Like, even single-celled organisms use hormone to communicate between different individual cellular organisms. How they test each other's slurs. Yes. Their slurs are estrogen. To me, the ghost of the US is typically highest quality from US due to the market expectation.", "Hey, Clyde. Acetylcholine. My brain. Not red cycle. Not citric acid cycle. I literally my brain just flashed that stupid ass. God give me the strength. Sorry, I had a little mom flashback for a second there. Slur slingers? Yeah. They send the mitochondria to the powerhouse? Nah. The slow house.", "We have grade D meat usable for prison and military only. Is that below pet food grade? Yes. Remember, prisoners don't deserve bread food, good food. Neutral loaf. Speaking of prisoners, there's a story going around I think it was on NPR. I didn't know so many prisons didn't have air conditioners in it. It was 105 degrees here today.", "today. So they're literally cooking inside these brick boxes. Did they speak to Texas and the Texas Supreme Court? Sorry, the Texas supreme court had a special thing about prisoners and how they weren't allowed to have air conditioning. What? Because retribution versus yeah it's something you can look up and go really? The ironic thing", "several security guards or corrections officers also have seizures and pass out. Yeah, people are doing that on the tarmac because the plane got delayed. Like Arizona's been 100, it hasn't gone below 111 during a day for over a month. Yeah this is an uh... The South is just gonna end up taking itself out for us. But it's not just the South right?", "even in the midwest even in midwest where it's hitting like 90 something degrees where it normally not 90 degrees or they have some older prisons where they have older prisoners that don't have air conditioners because when they built these prisons they didn't feel like you needed air conditionings because the homes didn't have a conditioning and they felt was like the same thing except for homes were built not to have air conditioning and then natural airflow if you open all the windows prisons don't", "You know, you're talking about another five to ten degrees at least in the prison of non-moving air Yeah, I'm not so much kind of a middly but yeah You've got an old dry heat versus A human Not just all socks. Hey 115 degrees is 150 degrees. Okay 152 152 that was an Iran", "in iran oh well she's actually that was the heat index not the temperature just to be but the heat", "So I think they had like a flight attendant pass out. People, yeah, flight attendants were wheeled out on gurneys. Passengers were wheelied out with oxygen. Like people were drooling as far as they went died. But yeah, they said if you get off the plane it'll take like 48 hours to reschedule your flight even though it took them two days to reschiddle the flight.", "ship themselves? Yeah, people were pissing and shitting their seats. I don't know how hot that's gotta be to piss or shit your pants. That's a bad customer service right there. Which is the whole question of who they are basically. So Delta here at Harry Reid International Airport in Vegas. I remember going through there once. It was hot in the airport. The sun beating down.", "complaining that the procedures that the delta has for dealing with such a thing are poor and hopefully will be improved right where someone dies hopefully you know i don't i don' but you see i don t chuckle like i look at these things as engineering problems that can be fixed and they can be fix d. They won't be reported fixed in the news cycle of outrage and resentment that people get to chuckle about of just saying", "Yes, all of things are engineering problems because you engineer things within an organization. Yes. And that's what I said at the very beginning that it's obviously their policies and procedures are stupid but which company is not stupid? They're made up of humans. You seem to want a perfect reality and complaining that it might be perfect as you expect it to be. No, I've sat here bitch this whole time about", "whole time about not wanting perfect i just want to start i just wanna start somewhere i say make companies out of champs something that's even less so they that case was fully preventable that's the thing is you do not keep people in a plane that is off no airflow obviously obviously in chicago so what was the reasons why they did it so you could complain", "That's what's interesting to me, to find out why they were dumb. What was causing people to be so stupid? Money. Can't give up those overbooked seats. I'm trying to find that. No, no, no. Wait, wait, wait. That's the easy answer. Exactly. You can chuckle about that kind of thing. That is the airline industry. That ist how it's so cheap. I can fly to Vienna for 50 bucks. Everything included from here in England.", "50, I was about to say, I have not seen a $50 airline ticket. Saxon lives in the UK. Okay, that's why. Yeah, no. How many miles is that? You know, there's a job in the airline industry called yield manager. Yes, this is the whole thing. It's a very margin thin industry.", "You think my autistic ass hasn't looked at the entire dynamics of airlines?", "What's a Canadian American? Well, as a Mexican... I had to disable Mexico with heart problems and pissy attitude today. I have a right to bitch because I haven't done long enough stuff in a while. The Zodiac Killer? Oh, say it could do work.", "That's like whenever Sam was kind of counting down my track the other night.", "No, no I just I came back to the computer and so you're counting down to this oh no III heard Saxon saw the name. I'm like nope. Nope We're not doing this", "were asking if we were gonna let him in i'm like nope no we're not with this and that's why i thought it was a different saxon i was like okay fine if it's the same dude i'm going to be really annoyed well i was really annoyed never trust anybody who said they're canadian american first of all that that's real number one you got talking chat i mean wait wait who should talk me into whose chat please you got", "This is the kind of prejudice you will find this is inappropriate. But by whom? Sox and prejudice you were the one that was insulting me, but I was literally making a point We're talking about what's being said in twitch chat. So Saxton it's Samantha banana It's Samantha Savage from Kyla's Very very person who so assured of their authority Yeah for reason", "Lex? That kind of accusation, I mean that's just a Javonna for saying. Like it's not gonna insult her. What are you going to say next? She's literally Hitler? Yeah like...", "Do you want to come talk this out? Would you like" ]
amina_wadud/Empowering Women in Islam_ Amina Wadud_s Feminist _-Cn4utjCLBo&pp=ygURQW1pbmEgV2FkdWQgaXNsYW0%3D_1748551784.opus	[ "I'm going to make a little bit of the same thing.", "I'm going to make a little bit of the same thing.", "I'm going to make a little bit of a mess.", "I'm going to make a little bit of a mess here.", "I'm going to make a little bit of a hole in the middle.", "I'm going to make a little bit of a mess here.", "I'm going to make a little bit of a mess.", "I'm going to make a little bit of a mess.", "I'm going to make a little bit of a hole in the middle.", "I'm going to make a little bit of a mess here.", "I'm going to make a little bit of a mess here.", "I'm sorry if I scare you, I scare myself too You found me terrifying, could it be you know who? What could I be hiding? What can I be hidin'? What could i be hidinn'? What can i be hidein'? Voldemort's alive and... Voldemorts alive and! Voldemorts alive and!!! He's under my headstone! He's alive he's alivie! Voldemon's alive an' he's under ma headstone", "He's alive, he's alive But he was alive and he's under my head, so Just what the heck can scare you to? Hot helmet Nah just you Just what on the heck could scare you too? Hot Helmet What could I be hiding? What could i be hiding", "Assalamu alaikum, welcome in everybody.", "Bait Queen. Y'all can just call me queen and I'm apparently, you know, little off. Hold on.", "The water is so clear that I can't see the sea.", "Okay, that should be a little better. I washed this the other night and it just is not like staying the way that I want it to and it's really, really annoying.", "you know just today is just not one of those days where it wants to like peak down where it's supposed to you know so we'll just leave it be oh well thanks hey hey hey thanks for joining in today um which means you know happy friday", "Friday. That's what we say to everybody on Fridays. But yeah, I wanted to talk about Amina Wadoon today. But first, I want to see how Chut was doing today. How has y'all's day been? Hopefully good.", "I stan her completely. Been so corny all day, I don't know why. You know? But chill, that's good Rose, that is good to hear. Alright, so...", "We'll do a little bit of a background on her. And then we'll kind of get more into some of her works and things of that sort, which should be very interesting. Question of the day. Which channel did I want to... We'll put it on here for right now.", "I'll just move this. Oh, Lord! Oh, no! Hold up. Can't I go back? Can't i go back?! Of course! Of course. What's a stream without issues for Queen, huh?", "what's a stream without some issues because lord knows i got them every time nothing is perfect and thus is uh technology nothing is ever perfect i even restarted my computer just to make sure today that everything was going to be working so i wasn't like gonna be like scared that like", "like, you suck at tech. No for real I mean for someone who has a tech background yeah like i got so many issues with my computer and it's just like i shouldn't have i think a lot of it just is like it's software issues or like i just need to keep learning the software like some of its like you know learning curve", "like stream labs i didn't think was going to be as big of a learning curve as it has been um so that's been pretty interesting to kind of like realize like i didn' go the obs because i thought obs was going", "is just Just as much I Mean, I don't know about specific stuff with your PC, but I'm quite tax-savvy. I was quite tax savvy to you like I said, I'm a Mac person anything Apple Like I am here for Windows. I have no idea what I'm doing because my whole life Or at least I should say for the last", "Maybe 14 years I've been on Mac and Apple sides of everything. I want to say that's a long time to be exclusively like doing Mac stuff, owning a Mac, you know, like laptop or iPad or iPhone or whatever. So like, I love Apple too. And you think Apple, I'm like,", "anything Apple I'm like, I'm here for you know, like I have an apple TV like that. I should really start using a little bit more but that's another story. Yes and that's why I like I Have Windows side like if I want to play games and stuff, but like I said, I really need to reach out to Jay to like help me get that all set up so I can stream from that side too.", "But yeah, let me just make sure my audio system is up and running because I don't want to start the video and it's muted. Right? Because that's embarrassing and I would totally do that. Okay, so we're going to start with this first video. It's called The Noble Struggle of Amina Wadu.", "So let's get into it. Let me know if this sounds good or bad, or if I need to lower it or turn it up.", "Oh, maybe I should make my camera smaller. Oops. Should probably turn this off.", "What she did today, she changed the law in Islam which has never been touched for more than 1400 years.", "that women always pray behind men this has been accepted throughout any other country you go china russia saudi arabia um nowhere in the quran does it say that women have to pray behind man and i really hate that like stigma of like women have too to pray because you know like men could watch our bodies and get thoughts while they're trying supposed to be praying okay", "Okay, then I have a solution for you. Pray side to side we can we can pray side to site that's fine There's no need to like be behind one another like we can beyond side to decide like You know Allah says to keep your gaze lower as much as it says for a woman they keep their gaze lowered so equal opportunity for both of us", "arthritis that for depression and two of these for deficiency in iron just so people understand that you had me struggle including the pressure i take antidepressants too", "The beginning of Islam in America, or American", "or American Islam was where? In the African-American community. What was now the largest ethnic group of Americans that are Muslim, African-Americans? You should now take over the leadership of the black Muslims. No, I have no desire to take over... Yeah, Rose, you said that you stepped on a piece of glass last night, right?", "And you said, you're like I need to clean a little better. I remember that The black Muslims and I have never had that desire but I do have this desire I have a desire to see the actual American in this country get the human rights", "To make a complete human being. Are you the least bit afraid of what might happen to you as a result of making these revelations? Oh, yes. I probably am a dead man already. What year was it Malcolm X died? 1963. What does this article lead you to believe which Gabriel inadvertently expressed? That Islam in America began with Muslim immigrants. Why do you think", "Do you think there is a problem between immigrant Americans and African-Americans? Because they've got different interpretations of what Islam can be. I mean, trying to find an example of it. So immigrant Americans in Africa, Americans have a diversity of interpretation. Yes. There are overlaps crossroads and there are distinctions. Yes the biggest distinction is the definition of authority", "And the second one is the definition of justice. That's why African Americans came to Islam, for justice that they did not experience as citizens of this country but they have no authority according to government and the immigrant Muslims.", "44% of the Muslims in the United States, so they are the largest ethnic group. The Quran stresses justice and African Americans recognize that under racist laws in America, they were not living a life with justice. I was also very strongly conscious of the racial movement because that was the time just after the 60s", "and I became interested in, well where is my destiny? I realized that as an African descent from a slave woman that I had a choice about my body so I changed my dress. I became a vegetarian. I took care of the fullness of me and the Quran and learning about Islam opened my mind to a higher level", "I've got a little water on me. I agree with her fully. Masjid Balal", "The Quran says, you will have the best care. That's what it says. So it means, why owe you and you and me if we do what? If we are believers not just Muslims. That is what it is saying. That what the Quran is telling us. And remember how do we build establish a masjid that is an institution. But an institution that stands to test time over periods of long years through the life of many people. And you can look back in history and say, so-and-so did such-and such", "We have a very long history since 1934-35 with the Nation of Islam.", "However, we broke from that and went into the mainstream of Islam when Imam Wathuddin Muhammad, the son of Elijah Muhammad took over the leadership. We're all very active in the community. We have a program to deal with drug addiction, alcohol addiction or any kind of addiction that the human being may have based on Quran and Sunnah is how we deal with it.", "Doctor, mommy knows what it is.", "Professor Wadu brings an enormous value by bringing her expertise on Islam. She's an excellent scholar, her writings you know her book on women in the Quran has been translated into I've lost count of the languages but recently it was published in Dutch so she brings a stature and", "a stature and prestige as well. Not long after the prayer service that she led, there was a lot of activity on the internet that included threatening types of language so they felt that there was risk to the security of Professor Wadud her students and so under professional advice of the security experts it was", "teaching in a publicly accessible identifiable place.", "to Spain and was this trip in connection at all with the establishment of an Islamic gender studies program? They knew the title of my upcoming book inside the Gender Jihad, Reform and Justice in Islam. And they had never heard of a combination of the word jihad taken from its dictionary origins in relationship to gender.", "so they've decided that now there's a new gender jihad going on in Spain.", "in the name of the religion and I found this to be incongruent with my notion of God. So, I purposely decided that I'm going to find out what is the position of women in Islam? And if it was in fact what I was seeing – the marginalization, the silence, the abuse – then", "my love for God within those restrictions. I have, for 25 years, been very conscientious of the injustice on the basis of gender and when I was confirmed by my study that there were always", "always a variety of opinions among the jurists, and that some leaned more heavily towards the divine spirit of a woman's full agency. And some tried to reduce her to agents of men and the family, and did not let her also complete her agency before Allah as the primary obligation. Then I said we need", "picture means more gender mainstreaming for women in every area of public and private practice, and for men in every are of public AND private practice. So that they wash the dishes and they serve tea because Allah says all deeds will be recognized. Yup! Not just the women.", "Come on, Ali! Let's go. Come on guys!", "It's really not that dangerous.", "of a man to say that he is such an animal, that although he is supposed to be Allah's highest potential creation. He cannot control his basic animal ego because another woman is also trying to communicate with Allah. And they tell you this is actually a reason. This reason doesn't exist in the Quran. This reasoning doesn't", "early fiqh, but it became very communally accepted and women also began to be embarrassed for themselves. It's like oh no I can't stand there because you know I don't know what the men will be... The men should have their minds in their hearts on Allah. Yes. And therefore Allah says you know the whole earth is a masjid, a place for prayer. You can pray anywhere. You play behind a woman. You go to Mecca, you can pray next to a woman", "of view. This is nonsense, this is just something that they have taken from certain types of juridical interpretations that support the patriarchy and misogyny that keeps men in authority and also limits women from their full potential as being servants and agents of a law. I don't accept that, I cannot accept that and truly go to my Lord and say I've done the best I could with the guidance you have provided. Amen. Agreed! All of it!", "All of it. All of It! Couldn't have said it better than myself.", "write a letter to the university asking that I be fired. Wow, of course. Leave it to the men! Leave it too the men. If they can't get together to pray but they can get together try to destroy a woman's personal life. See these decisions are being...that they're making", "is totally unaware of. And I think that's terrible, even when it comes down to where we're going to pray or who's going to leave a kutbah, it's only a few people who are making decisions for the people and that's not the way the Prophet wants us to do. That's why he sat down and talked with the men, the women, everybody knew they want you fired, they want your business closed down. It's unnerving!", "It's unnerving. And there's nobody, no women on this consultative body? No. So I run into all kinds of conflicts because there are times when I read the Quran where I know that my obedience is to Allah and follow His instructions, and I see the sad aspect of the psychological ego that the men have in the community, which is the abuse and the oppression of women that Allah has ordered us not to, for us to stop this kind of behavior in the past.", "in the past and it's just changed today into a new way of bringing it about but the same things are still taking place. We have no voice, you know? It's like you're alive in the world but you are... Like in solitary confinement you can't speak up and to be choked at the throat in your home, in the masjid is unforgivable", "to come from anybody, white or black. To treat anybody like that whether it's an Islamic or secular political situation we have no voice and that hurts me to this day.", "His face so soft and wondrous pale The purest eyes And the strongest hand A symposium on Islam and Feminism", "If, as every prayer and every indication in the Quran is true that Allah is Akbar then there can be no relationship between one human being and another human being except on the basis of horizontal reciprocity.", "Horizontal reciprocity means that it is possible to exchange positions without disrupting the honor and the dignity of one another. That is, no one is above someone else. This paradigmatic way of looking at the world", "some men to accept reciprocity because if there is an exchange then the man comes to the bottom. So, if you want to know my basic philosophy behind the future that I am looking for in the context of women and men,", "in the context of rich and poor, powerful and weak is that they acknowledge only that as human beings they are on a horizontal line mutual reciprocity one is never more human than the other because their positions are exchangeable Allah says in the Quran we can bring down the mighty to positions", "to positions of weakness. That's because Allah is Akbar, Allah is on top. Yes. Alhamdulillah.", "in here all the time and it just so happens that today we're in here solo. We don't have any other people in here to keep it going like we ordinarily would because I try to be peaceful and listen, don't I? Yes you do. Come on back. And so we always find ourselves in conversations about women and politics", "And what's going on with the world? The world. And as quiet as she says she is, she is very deep inside. I wear hijab for choice.", "for choice. African women who were brought to this country did not have a choice about how they were going to be dressed. They were stripped naked, including Muslim women and put on the auction blocks. And so as I said many conscientious people wear something on their heads and wear longer clothes", "So I did before I was Muslim. I covered my hair and wore long clothes, and it's a very clear symbol an identifier of my perspective which... Thank you for choosing Indigo may help you But I loved being identified with the Muslim woman but I did not like the fact that people often did not recognize me as African", "as African American. So, as I got older after 30 years of wearing the hijab including wearing niqab for four years, I began to graduate towards more flexibility so in more formal settings... So she wore a niqaub like me? Like what I'm wearing? When I cut the grass, I don't wear anything or if I go to the gym,", "And a t-shirt, not a no t- shirt.", "make connections between Quranic principles of modesty and specific forms of dress that existed in the Arab peninsula at that time as if they were the universals rather than the Quran's own articulation, labas l'khayr taqwa. So I ask people what do the women in the rape camps in Bosnia and Croatia,", "by these Serbian soldiers. What do they do when Salah time comes? They can't get up and make wudu, they certainly can't make the fuhusl or the bath, they cannot cover themselves. Are you telling me that Allah cannot hear their prayer because of 45 inches of material? There's something fundamentally undivine about such a conclusion.", "That's not the way Allah would look at a human being. Because Allah already sees all the way through, not through our clothes only but to our hearts. It says that the best dress is as the dress of God consciousness and God has the capacity to listen and to respond just as much to her or a woman on", "You know, Allah's decisions are based on the nafs. Is your heart really true to Islam? Or is it just an idea that you flourishly show off to the people? And all religions have symbols but the symbols only have meaning as the people have embedded that meaning and the symbols are not the real thing The real thing can only be between the heart, the actions, and obedience to Allah", "full picture if you have a hijab and your you actually are hypocrite Allah recognizes that if you don't have he jab and you're too sincere Allah recognizes equally and there's no problem with the laws vision yeah I can see did you do the vision that she can see this she said that our lab was both woman yes", "Okay, that was really good. Make sure to give it a like. I guess I should probably just share this copy. So if anyone wants to check that out again, there that is for you.", "Alright. And then now we're going to get into one of her books, The Quran and Women Reading the Sacred Texts and What is the Patriarchy?", "God is above gender. In Arabic, when you're reading Allah, Allah doesn't have a gender. So Allah can be a male or female because we don't know. We can't gender Allah.", "and mainstream answers to very real, very valid questions about pretty much all things Islam and gender. And what I'll do is to offer alternative responses to those questions and not to claim that my answers are more correct than the patriarchal ones, although I do think they are, but to illustrate the bigger point of the role that patriarchy plays in shaping Islam for us and also just to let you see what an answer might look like without an influence of patriarchy or that", "that is very, very much possible. Now today's discussion is going to be on one of the most important books ever written in the course of human history it's kind of an obvious choice for me as the first book that I'm gonna talk about here given that it's a classic now at this point on pretty much all things Islam and especially all things Islamic gender. This famed book is Quran and Women rereading the sacred text from a woman's perspective by Dr Amina Wadud okay", "and the second edition came out in 1997 with Oxford University. As you can see, it's very brief, it is short, it small, not intimidating in my opinion. And you can totally find this on PDF. I do have this on pdf. It's not overwhelming although the knowledge may be very overwhelming because it requires us to interrogate and challenge and rethink and also unlearn so much of what we already know and then relearn it.", "And not only is it a classic at this point, but the arguments that are made in here, the points that are making here are so obvious at this time. They're very logical and just makes perfect sense now. Although of course when she wrote this at the time in the 1990s it did not make sense and she got a lot of backlash for it. We'll talk about that briefly later. And because arguments in here are important and essential and at this moment currently very obvious we're going to keep returning to it,", "most of the episodes here in this channel. Oh, and it also comes with a glossary of key Arabic terms that is always very helpful to have. Both editions also come with a preface, the second one partly explaining also how the book has been received so far which is something I'm always interested in. I want to know how people are reading and receiving especially academic books on Islam and gender. It also raises this very important point about the utterly false dichotomy", "or the West versus Islam, as if the two are mutually exclusive, as though you can't be Islamic and Western at the same time. Basically what happens is that some Muslims are very fond of accusing especially non- and anti-patriarchal scholars and activists of being Western which to them is apparently the total opposite of Islamic which is incredibly out of touch with reality because first of all quit giving credit to the West for all things beautiful,", "not invent the idea of justice. True. Especially gender justice. And second, do you have no idea of what Western history, Western civilization has been like historically to marginalized people including and especially women but also people of different races? So the West again did not invent this idea of gender equality. But back to the book itself its primary objective is to read the Quran in a way that is practical", "therefore providing a reading or interpretation of the Quran that is not polluted, not tainted with stereotypes about women or men. By stereotypes we're talking about things like women are weak and therefore not fit for leadership, men are logical, women are irrational, men should be the default breadwinners of the family, men aren't therefore strong, women should obey men, women don't have as strong sexual drive as men,", "built one. And these biases and these stereotypes and such matter because we read them into the scripture, into texts even if they are not explicitly or directly present and then we also explain or justify those interpretations using or relying on our biases and assumptions. It's a very circular thing that ends up happening in a patriarchy. So for example the patriarchy restricts women to their biology but it doesn't restrict men to their", "read the quran oh fun fact by the way and this isn't in the book i want to address it anyway because it's related to this idea that women are emotional and men apparently it says the next time a man starts yelling at you cut him off and tell him you just can't talk to him when he's being so emotional and then the next person says I've done this and confirmed that this is a lot of fun to watch them implode afterward and then", "angry extra credit tell them to calm down true actually I might take a quick screenshot of this okay screenshot taken", "That sexual drive to a point ain't true. I know plenty of crazy women", "women and let me know yeah I feel like it's a two-way street you know.", "on male insecurities and male feelings and male emotions. And therefore it is just absolutely illogical, it just doesn't make sense. True! And that's what I totally believe like hadith is based on. It's just the whims of these men's beliefs. Back to the book. The ultimate argument of the book is that one's perceptions of women influence their interpretations of the Quran. The person's intentions and biases and opinions and experiences are all reflected in their interpretations.", "of anyone who is reading the text are not universal and they're very culturally or time or otherwise specific, and imposing them or reading them into the text only shows how limited our capacity is to understand and apply the text into our lives without the background that we come to it with. And of course then there's an issue of translation which I hadn't thought about until i read this book you see not all languages are gendered Arabic", "Translate the Quran into non gendered languages because you need me to hide your hold up to non gender languages Then we have to make interpretive decisions like what a certain passage or a certain word means What its purpose or intention might be? But with the principle behind it might be and so on So that we can translate it into this new language into this other language as correctly as possible Which becomes a problem because most Muslims do not speak or do not know Arabic drink water everybody drink water Drink water communal hydrate communal hydrates from contemporary or modern Arabic", "modern Arabic. So what happens is these Muslims or pretty much all Muslims then end up having to rely on translations of the Quran in a language that they understand which means that they have to rely upon interpretations of the Qur'an that are done by people who translated the Quran according to again their perceptions, their biases, their expectations and so on. Academics love to say that nothing happens in a vacuum and as tiring as it is to hear this it's actually especially", "of scriptures don't happen in a vacuum because they are products of the specific individual and collective contexts in which we read them, apply them, and make meanings out of them. I think that's one way to sum up Wadud's argument in this book. Now throughout Islamic history nearly all interpretations of the Quran and certainly other mainstream ones that you and I probably know are done by men which means women's experiences and values and vision and also their biases really important are not reflected in our understanding of Islam", "which means that the interpretations of the Quran that we have today reflect only those of the men who interpreted them. While women's interpretations may not necessarily be more just or egalitarian or kind or compassionate than men's ones, what this does tell us is that there are profound gaps in our understanding, in our knowledge of Islam and certainly of the Qur'an as well as in our applications of the Qu'ran because it's missing the perspectives of an entire gender, an entire group of people based entirely on their gender.", "Yep, and so that's why I recommend This Quran right here Well, let's see can I can it doesn't want to come down Hold on. Can I get back? There we go the sublime Quran by Lector but if you type in", "Explanation point Quran. You can get the two that I recommend, but I recommend the Sublime Quran because it was translated by a woman and I have like pretty much all her books and they're fantastic just absolutely fantastic books.", "of the Quran are shaped and affected by our contexts, our backgrounds, our experiences who we are, who we're not what we want and expect from the Quran and so on. Wadud looks at several verses on the theme of gender such as the creation story marriage female testimony divorce male authority the hereafter and whether or gender is at all relevant in the here after and she also looks at the view on the women that it mentions like Maryam and Belqis", "The Quran actually reveres these women greatly and it treats them very well. And I don't know if you've ever read the passages on these women, especially with Musa and Bilqis in them, with the mother of Musa. So the mother is highly revered in the Quran and the way that Allah comforts her as she's freaking out about having to give up her child right? The way that God comforts for in the Qur'an is really incredibly beautiful and it's something my students always point out when we're reading those passages in one of my classes.", "the queen of Sheba, who is very highly revered in the Quran as well. And her authority and leadership are very much admired in the Qur'an. I'm not going to talk about all of these topics. I am just going to address a couple of them to highlight the argument that Wadud is making and how she supports it. A careful reading of these verses in the Qu'ran shows very excellently how male perceptions and male biases against women make it into the application and interpretation of the Qur-an. My personal favorite examples are the creation story and the conveniently dramatically different meanings", "Come on, to watch more of her videos!", "for women in the context of what to do when women commit issues, the translations typically say something like when a woman commits an issue she's being rebellious or disobedient to her husband and so on. But for 124, for men, when men are committing shoes, the verse is translated typically as something like he's being...the husband is being contemptuous or he's not treating his wife right or he abandons her or he is being oppressive towards", "according to the traditional and mainstream interpretations of it, requires a husband to physically discipline his wife, which means to hit her. No, no, no does not say that but yeah what she's getting is like the general text of that but if you actually read... And this is why I really like Leah Bechtar's Quran because", "that uh she um she lets you know when it's supposed to be like a male or like a female like when when when the quran is talking specifically about a female or specifically about like a mail and like she like makes sure that like she makes sure", "she makes sure she makes that um to like make sure to put like it like m or f in parentheses afterwards but yeah so yeah so there what she was referring to is 434 which says men are the supporter of wives because god gave some of them an advantage over others", "Moralities are the female ones who are more morally obligated and the female one's who guard the unseen of what God has kept safe and those females who resist your fear then admonish them female and Abandoned abandoned them female in their sleeping places and go away from them female if they obey female Obeyed you then look not for any way against them towards the female truly", "Truly, God had been lofty and great. So that pretty much like changes the whole like translation, right? And like in that sense of like it's not that like you should hit your wife if something like happens. It's you should go away from them. Like take your time and stuff. Don't think that beating someone or hitting someone is a way for them to obey you. You know?", "You know, like that's why it's very specific. That then if they obeyed you, then look not for any way against them. So yeah. And if they're in their sleeping places. So basically like if you are sleeping in the same bed. Then leave the sleeping chambers and go sleep on the couch. Very simple, you know? So I'm very sorry that happened to you Rose.", "you rose. You know, so that's why like the Quran is for men and women equally both.", "that the Quran never actually blames Eve for anything, not for committing the first sin, not eating the fruit first and then giving it to Adam or for seducing and deceiving Adam to eat it as well. That's why I love... one of the reasons why I Love Islam because of that. It doesn't blame the woman for the sin of all humanity like Christianity does which blames eve for", "the bite of the apple and like then you know for disobeying god then they are both shut off and thrown out of eden um in quran it's like they had the apple she shared the apple with with adam", "I'm not quite sure why my alert box did not come up. But welcome in! How was your stream, JJ? What did you do? What Did You Talk About? I'm the debate queen. Y'all can call me Queen. I do panels on Wednesdays and Thursdays and Fridays like today,", "i talk about islam um uh so that way like people can be more informed about what islam is about and what uh like the like dispelling uh like myths and stuff um and today we're talking about the patriarchy um and especially about dr amina wadood's feminist perspective", "patriarchy and readings of Islam, which is pretty cool. We good? We talked about basketball, Larry Bird and Magic Johnson. Yeah, I was listening to that a little bit JJ. Oh hey Zavara! How are you? Welcome in honey vinegar man ask the question yes you may you may so yeah go ahead", "so yeah go ahead and you know drop me a follow if anything that i mentioned sounds remotely interesting to you at all honey says i am no theologian i am an atheist raised lutheran protestant christian but renounce of jesus christ as a holy figure circa 2012.", "Christ did walk this earth as a human but not a god So Islam Beliefs kind of something similar That like instead of like the Son of God. He was just like a man, but The only difference is that we believe that Jesus popped up talking out of the womb I know that's a little out there It is what it is But yeah, like and then instead of getting crucified", "getting crucified on the cross and then like you know being um being revived three days later none of that happened he just ascended to heaven and then that was that so yeah but yeah he's definitely not god and he's not the son of god", "husband so she was just giving birth and Immaculate Conception basically Gabriel you know the story Gabriel came down to marry told him that this is gonna go on and So yeah, then you know nine months later out pops baby Jesus Thank you for the follow maverick it never Kept I'm if I'm really bad at pronouncing usernames but", "usernames but you know and thank you Connor in Culver City I know where that is and thank You honey vinegar reality for following and is this whoo I just want to make sure if that's a R and not an M Ernan Tugo and water porch thank you also for your follows I greatly greatly appreciate it", "Sweet. Okay. You never know, like with people's usernames and stuff. So, you know. And thank you so much for the tier one subscription, HoneyVeraKer. I greatly appreciate it. Welcome to the queendom. Welcome", "All right, so we're gonna get back into Dr. Amina will and unless someone has questions and I'm here for the questions in a anything so I'm Please feel free if you really honestly have questions or your like curious about something you want to know it was something about Islam please ask And yes, you can be queer and be Muslim there's nothing wrong with that", "nothing wrong with that be right back when to grab some food okay well enjoy your food JJ why does everybody hate Christianity Rose I think it's just the I think just depending on how you were raised in it and it depends", "being christian growing up you know there are varying degrees that that can go you know my rep my username is reference to a television show on fx network okay that's cool i haven't watched fx in forever", "know everyone has like their own but my very rating levels of like um religion some were more religious than others some just like to read scriptures some don't do it at all that's your own thing yeah well it's been used often as a form of an imperialist and in the u.s it was used to make a lot of black people submissive true", "of true and the genocide of our courts are forced us to change her names religions entire lives And of course, we know that like Islam came over with with black people during The slave trade days and stuff which we actually kind of talked about a little bit in Amina wadoods video on that We just watched As she talks about how that kind of came to be and stuff Which is cool", "is cool. I mean, my parents are Christian, a classic Christian meaning anti LGBTQ. Yeah, that sucks to like have, you know, like when your life family or like your religion doesn't feel like you so like it supports you and things of that sort. Like,", "The entire, literally the entire male tafsir tradition of the past at least until the 20th century blames Eve for everything. Let me hydrate, hold up.", "account of the creation story is somewhat more detailed and so these scholars of ours, these past scholars of hours they relied almost entirely on the biblical tradition. And I don't believe in hadiths because hadits were created 200 years after the Prophet Muhammad died and they were just there to serve men's needs and wants and whims and that's not the Quran or Islam", "that from the biblical tradition, that God created Adam first and then from Adam, from his ribs, God created Eve and so on. And that God expelled both of them because Eve eats the food first and that she seduces Adam to do it as well and so On. This is objectively speaking from the Quranic perspective this is not true because the Quran never blames Eve for anything. It certainly never blams her exclusively.", "for adam and eve okay it doesn't blame eve oh side note by the way isn't it so convenient that our male scholars very easily turn to the bible um to support their patriarchy and again a very specific version of the story to support your patriarchy but then turned around and hypocritically told us that we're not supposed to use non-islamic sources to understand islam and of course typical male hypocrisy in islam about that yeah", "reason why i really love islam is because islam really makes it easy and this for everybody in the sense of like you're no better than anybody on this earth um and it doesn't blame women uh for the fall of being kicked out of eden there's no hate towards lgbtq people in the quran like there's none of that everyone likes to bring up the story of prophet lut which i", "did last week if you want to catch that video um that pretty much is the story of um sodom and gomorrah but in the retelling it of it in in in islam is that like it was the men who were already marrying going on entering warning uh committing sexual assault", "the people who would come into towns and things of that sort so yeah that's the reason why Solomon Gamora was destroyed and why his wife was also put in clay as well because she knew about it and let it happen and that's what you get from Allah mainstream understandings not the feminist ones for example because if we cared", "times use rely on the feminist responses to those interpretations but also even in the actual biblical version of the creation is really complicated and there's two of them that are actually very different from each other. There's also a Lilith for example who was not named in the Bible, but she is in the biblical tradition but Eve gets preference because well patriarchy. And then of course there's", "nafs, which is a feminine word that means the soul. But all of our scholars decided that the nafs here was Adam because they had just decided and concluded that Adam was the first being created. And whether the nafsh is the same thing as Adam or not is open to debate. It's not a done deal. Now, the reason why this is an excellent illustration of Wadud's point, this whole discussion on the creation story, is that it shows concretely how", "to them given their own cultural context, historical context, existing norms and knowledge that was available to them at the time. Their assumptions and attitudes towards women they all read into the Quran.", "down to reveal the holy quran to prophet muhammad and like of course it was kind of already a little bit of a patriarchal society a little but right so he says he you know i think that it would probably come as shock to a lot of people if if allah came down and was like she but technically in arabic when you read the word allah it doesn't have a gender", "a gender so Allah can be a woman or a man we can't put a law in like a gendered box which I think is pretty badass.", "gender-neutral spouse or partner or mate, or it means your male spouse, male partner. So zawj literally is masculine form for the word partner. Yet the scholars imagined their own selves as men as an audience of the Quran so that when the Quran says something like you and your azwaj these scholars decided that meant you and wives when actually it means you and spouses, partners of any gender. The other thing wadud does is to look at", "of the verses in question the grammatical struct all Allah wants is that is for you to have a happy and safe relationship, a loving relationship not only with God but with your partner as well whether it be someone of any gender or any because we know gender is a fluidity like whether on", "Fuck, that's another reason why I love Islam. Because it doesn't tell you that because you're LGBTQ, like, you are therefore less than and bad. Like, Islam... Or excuse me, like Christianity tends to do. But again, it's like this woman is saying, is that a lot of it is just the patriarchy. The patriarchy has seeped into Islam, you know, as well. And this is what", "This is what Dr. Amina Wadud's book was going into. JJ, we say my parents pastor got into an argument with me on Facebook a few years ago over if God is a man or not. He got so pissed off because I said in a post, why would God be a man? And he commented on my post.", "be a man or a woman god could be an envy for all you know okay hella classic these verses say what they say and she also looks at other related verses of the same theme for a more complete more holistic or as completed as possible in interpretation of these verses now we don't always know what the what the context of the correct context of any verse is in my opinion though we don' t ever know", "is added on later on in the tradition long after the interpretation of a particular verse has been established. So it's made, the context is added to support or corroborate the existing, the established understanding of that verse which may be wrong. So what wadud does then is to consider the intent or the principle of the text its implications or its consequences, the impact of a given verse and a given context, what happens when we actually apply", "is bad or especially if it is violent then can we claim that this was the intended meaning of the text and could this really be divine she suggests as have other scholars before and after her that the principles of the Quran don't change and the principles are often vague and general enough to be applied to many different contexts and times and generations but our understandings of the principles can and do and probably should change now this may be because the", "principles of the community that is interpreting it. And this kind of has to be the case because Quran claims that it is applicable universally and eternally, which means that it's also flexible enough to be applied to many different contexts and times. An example of a principle in how its meaning can change with time and context is modesty. The Quran like pretty much all other scriptures encourages its readers and its believers and its followers to be modest but it doesn't ever tell us", "fun fact by the way, the headscarf. The idea that we have to wear a hijab meaning the head scarf is not in the Quran. Yep okay now I want to end soon but i do want to also address and highlight some really important points from this book and from other works of wadoods so first neither the quran nor its interpretations are a done deal sure we don't know so yeah there's nowhere in the qur'an that says you gotta wear a headscarve there's no one in the", "kamar which is what this is kind of longer or wear long sleeves or you know it just makes sure to cover your like if you're a woman make sure your breasts are covered you got a bra on all right cool like do you got some clothes on over at alright cool like you know that that's basically what it is to be modest it's just don't show your like", "So that can be whatever and however you really want to dress There's nothing specific. That says you have to And like I said in in In Islam, there is no compulsion in religion so there should be nothing that you like is a forced upon you Thank You mark excuse me Michael for the follow appreciate it", "have any more revelations happening the quran isn't being revealed anymore any parts of the qur'an are being revealed but what i mean is that as long as muslims are reading the qura'n for a better understanding and as a source of guidance then the qu'ran remains negotiable it remains open to interpretation and there's no logical or just or good or fair reason why the interpretations of any one community or generation or gender", "thing wadud has argued elsewhere in my opinion rightly so that conflating interpretations of the quran with the qur'an itself which is god's direct words as most muslims see it is a form of shirik. God's words are not the same as human interpretations of god's words you may personally choose to follow a certain interpretation and that's great fine but that doesn't mean that everyone else should as well or that's the only option available to us", "the book is that wudu argues that while there are some differences between the genders and keep in mind that this book is written in 1990s when our knowledge of gender wasn't as advanced as it is today and we're still learning more and more about gender but those differences are not essential these differences aren't essential enough to ascribe value to our gender which is in strong contrast to what our historical male scholars claimed because they said", "and are preferred by God because they're strong and intelligent, and they're stronger and intelligent because they are preferred to God. Do you see this circularity here? And hashtag shout out to my dudes Zamakhshari and Ghazali. Cause where does that say that in the Quran? Bring me a verse from the Quran that says men are stronger and better than women is. You won't find it.", "between them, between the genders. Oh and most importantly the Quran doesn't gender our roles there's no such thing as gender roles in the Quran that is to say that the Quran does indicate or dictate in any way that a woman's job is to stay at home and have babies and then raise those babies and also practically raise or babysit their husbands while husbands work for pay outside of the home this is not in the Qur'an but Qur'anic verse 434 has been interpreted that way which brings me to my next point which is that... Which is what I mentioned", "I mentioned and it's just like, yeah there's none of that. We're equal we're on equal footing in the Quran and like I think that's the beauty is that everyone is just equal you know? It says for you to free the slave feed the hungry do good deeds you know like what happens to you in the afterlife will happen because", "those be good or bad, whether you were obedient or not. You know there's a multitude of things that may happen to you in the afterlife. And we don't believe that like hell is forever either it's not like you did something so bad like killing someone which you're not really supposed to do and as long because it says if you like killing one person is like killing all of humanity", "um like if you killed a person like you know it's like uh well allah might let you off like after you know you spend some time in hell for a little bit and then your good is new like i don't know i i'm just hyper thinking out there you know i do not proclaim to know the words of god or how god", "sort because there's a lot of people like to come in here and be like well I know the Word of God and so you're Kaffar which means you're an unbeliever and you're going to burn in hell queen and I'm just like may Allah guide you on the right path and that's all I can say. You know, I don't have anything negative to say to you.", "I'm the strongest in be around. I can out squad mini sysmen The infinite punishment for a temporary crimes that's what the biblical idea of what hell is okay Yeah, we sit in every night and you know, that's true and you're responsible for your own sins You're not responsible for anybody else's sins but your own so", "so like you bear a child into the world and your child does some terrible sin you're not responsible for it like point blank in period like anything that you did is your choice you have free will you are going to be responsible for that that's it i sold peanut butter oh god's gonna smite you down allah's gonna smart you watch no i'm kidding i'm", "I'm kidding. Describe an existing reality rather than dictating how things should be, while prescriptive verses are those that tell us how things SHOULD BE and what to do and what not to do. The descriptive verses may be time or culture specific, and the prescriptives ones maybe more universally applicable. How this is to be determined is very complicated and we don't really have a set of guidelines that we can all agree on, and I don't think we need to although some scholars have tried it in my opinion not successfully", "distinction works. My personal opinion, however, is that this distinction should be made collectively by Muslim communities across the world and the voices of those who are most negatively impacted or harmed by the applications of this decision should be prioritized. So for example if we decided that a certain verse is general and prescriptive and therefore should be applied one specific way ends up having a harmful impact on any individual", "change it accordingly. Another point is that the Quran should be read as a whole, as a complete text not atomistically, not one verse by verse or word-by-word so for example if you wanted to understand what the Quran has to say on marriage or in spouse and relations then looking only at 434 is probably a very very very bad idea, very terrible idea instead we would need to look at 4 34 in relation to and in addition to all the other verses on", "chapter which tells us that spouses are garments for one another or verse number 21 in chapter 30 which tells as Allah has created mates for us so that we may live in tranquility with them and that she has placed mercy and love in our hearts for each other right those are other verses that you would be like you should be looking at look she just said God was woman she plays love and mercy upon us Oh Allah is great Allah Akbar", "We believe that you only go to hell if you don't accept Jesus as the son of God and ask for forgiveness. Yes, I vaguely remember that being a Christian because I wasn't always a Muslim and I wasn' born a Muslim. I'm a revert or convert to Islam from Christianity. Oh, I'm sorry that happened Rose", "happened rose i mean you're a sinner i mean and basically in every in every religion basically but i mean i believe christianity that you can actually beg for forgiveness and all that jazz too you know so to each their own and what you believe in and what", "So like the seventh layer is like the highest that you can get to God basically And then the bottom ones like the lowest that you get to god. I don't know, you know Where those seven planes are gonna be put in heaven? I don' t know As an atheist I don see much difference from the big three yeah, I mean there's a lot of overlap We're still at Abrahamic religions", "religions and so basically like what Islam believes is that Basically, you're all Muslims because we all basically Jews are Muslims and Christians or Muslims because We all are people of the book and we're all like one basically And so the reason why Islam came down was because Just to perfect all the things that Allah tried to do the first two times and so", "and so that's it. And then after that, there's supposed to be no more prophets that come down and anything. Prophet Muhammad was the last prophet that is to come down from God. Post-leftism thank you for the follow. Appreciate it.", "Another point is that, to be clear, I'm not anti-religion but it seems like it's the same God. Yeah, basically. It's the Same God. I can get behind that. It' s the same god. You know? Living life and loving God. There we go. No interpretation of the Quran is objective since all this stuff that I just said. But I insist if we believe that the Quran", "And Allah says that this is the perfect book. He made it perfect and basically if anything's left out of the Quran, it's probably for a reason.", "of what she calls a Tawheedic paradigm, which I think I might be addressing in a different episode. So I'm not going to get into now, but you can look it up. It's powerful and it is the truth. Now if any of what I've said about this book and what it argues and what shows sounds very simple or simplistic or obvious to you, I am so glad that it's obvious to yo,u and that means that Islamic feminism was working. So you should probably hashtag thank you Muslim feminist near you. These ideas may seem very obvious to us today,", "Muslim women and some of whom identify as feminists who had to make a lot of sacrifices and also had to Make a lot these critical observations about the Quran and its tafsir and pretty much changed so much of what we believed about the Qur'an and about Islam previously. Okay, well that's all for now Thank you so much for watching and for listening I'll be back soon next week inshallah with The next topic which will be either on the book Women and Gender in Islam by Laila Ahmed or on menstruation and fasting and praying during", "by leila akbar yes oh i'm actually gonna have to subscribe i know this was probably a couple years ago but we may have to watch some more of her videos because i am here for it oh let me also uh share this", "watch again they can and then this was the first video that i uh watched um as well if you want to know a little bit more about amina wadud which we're about to get into um the last video that I had that I found on her um you know it's hard out there finding videos on youtube", "that align with my beliefs that aren't anti-lgbtq which we do find some of them and if a lot of y'all are here i start running polls pulls in predictions like is this video we're gonna watch anti lgbt q is this like because it's so hard to find like positive like videos on islam that's not like degrading", "degrading like anybody and saying that people are wrong i mean like chud watch lol yeah basically it's islamic chuds i mean we may have to do some islami chuds um extremes like mutafi mink he's just so funny", "Like there's one that he was like talking about, like anime and like how anime is bad for you. I'm just like, yeah, basically women should be covered and barefoot in the kitchen. All right. All", "I mean, what is lecture on Islam, feminism and human rights? I again have not watched any of these videos. But we'll see what she's got to say. And like I said, she's a like badass woman.", "first video that we watched on her like have people trying to like the men in in islamic communities couldn't come to agreement over how to pray but they could all come to agree it onto send the university though she was lecturing at a like a letter to get her fired like okay guys oh okay like you know so", "I seek refuge in Allah from the accursed Satan. In the name of Allah, the Most Merciful and Compassionate", "whose grace I seek in this and all other matters. I want to thank Professor Berger for negotiating this possibility with me. I was actually here for another forum in Rotterdam, and we were able to, with the hospitality of my brother Arnold Moore, allow me to stay a bit longer so I could speak with you. Yes.", "supports anybody on the spectrum. Yeah, so she's not anti anything. She is for anybody any gender like however you identify as long as it makes you happy you are you know you love Allah then you're fine being in Islam or fine being", "interesting conversations afterwards. I'm actually going from a scripted paper, which I have reduced to try and keep within the time. And that means there may be some spaces that are you know, a bit rough because I literally just reduced it but I'm gonna do that as a way to stay focused cause there's a lot that I want to cover. She's always got a lot to say. The purpose of it really is", "and radical changes that are going on in the Middle East. This lecture focuses on Islam as a global phenomenon. In fact, there are more progressive gender debates in Indonesia than in all of the Arabic, Farsi, Urdu, and Turkish-speaking countries combined.", "special benefit when looking at the development of the Muslim women's movement. It also helps to locate my work within that movement and grants it legitimacy. I have worked on gender issues in a way that would lead to Islamic feminism before it had a name, and before I could own the word feminism as appropriate for my work and perspective.", "debates is linked to my spiritual yearning. She scared me. For God is bigger than any discourse, acts in ways not fathomable to human beings at all and yet is intimately connected to each human being even if they choose not to respond to that living presence or reality. So this benevolence is not intended to offend or to be imposed on people who do not believe in God", "in God. I say this instead because it is important to my location and to focus on theological elements in the debates over women's empowerment in the context of Islam. We cannot say anything about Islam and Muslims until we're clear what we mean by Islam. Every discussion about Islam, and women must begin with the meaning of the word Islam. People involved", "The struggle for or against Islamic reform often operate on a presumption that there is a uniform agreement on the meaning of the word. When people say, for example, Islam is a violent religion", "or in Islam you must wear hijab, the source of such abstractions is frequently not provided. One important development that the women's movement helped to forge in international discourse at the end of the 20th century was the distinction between Muslim cultures and Islamic primary sources", "That is the Quran, they establish... Ah! Hello muted. Sorry I was trying to say that you'll never find any of those things because it's not in the Quran and it was probably made up because a hadith and hadith were written by men....authentic Hadith and sometimes Islamic law or fiqh And which there's no such thing as an Islamic law either? It's funny because", "In trying to get people to move away from certain static notions of Islam, even people who are working in progressive Islamic circles tend to defer back to these kind of conservative definitions when they're talking about Islam. So they make themselves as a response to or reaction or an alternative of. And part of what I'm trying to do is to get Islam to be once again more dynamic.", "In the Quran, the word Islam and Muslim are both used with reference to an historical community and to a state or posture vis-a-vis all of creation. The posture of conscientious surrender to the harmony of the universe. Indeed, the Quran says all of nature is Muslim. All of creation is harmonious following a certain order with balance between its constituent parts.", "And that's where like science and like Islam work hand in hand, hand in glove. You know? So yeah. Refresh the chat if you have it. True story. Refresher time away. I'm not missing anything. I am on chatterino.", "I thought you were just saying, like, refresh the page so your views count. They use Sharia law to defame but ignore Noahide law. I don't even know what that is. But, like... Sharia Law doesn't exist. It's made up. That's not Quranic in any way. There's nothing in the Quran that, like.. Is Sharia LAW. No.", "of its syntactical origin, the making of one from fragments. That is diversity or plurality. It could be then defined as unity. The social principle of Tawhid mandates a relationship between human beings of equality and reciprocity. The other question we have to figure out when we discuss Islam... And it's very specific in Islam that like you fight for justice and equality", "and equality for everybody so that way everybody could be free. And women is what is the role of women in Islam? I work only on the basis of an understanding that the role a woman is to be a khalifa on the earth, a moral agent of Allah within the sacred order of balance and harmony in the universe. This teleology is confirmed by the Quranic passage", "the khalifa indeed i will create an agent on the earth woman was not created as a byproduct of helpmate for or second-class citizen to man furthermore her agency is in a direct relationship to god unmitigated by men men's agency", "fil ardh, in the creation or literally on the earth. Standing up for justice and gender equality working to reform asymmetrical gender policies and toppling tyrannical practices and epistemologies are thus essential to an agent as part of the human divine relationship. These aspects of justice work are all mandated by Allah and established by the prophetic sunnah.", "Coincidentally, this is the same as the role of men in Islam. Women are human. They do not depend upon men for their humanity. It is given to them by Allah. While women have always been a part of the community expected to conform to the development of Islam within that community,", "they did not enjoy equal participation in establishing the fundamental understanding of what is Islam. In fact, as the Muslim empire spread geographically and politically especially after the Abbasid period women's contributions to the fundamental canon of Islam would be further marginalized and ultimately silenced. But then what they don't want to tell you is that there have been so many women scholars", "written so many things in Muslim history that they don't want you to know that, of course. This had a profound effect on the future of Islamic thought and in the establishment of both legitimacy and authority. If we look back over Islamic history from our vantage point, we see a very minor role that women played in establishing", "or legitimacy. For example, in the 12th century, the famous and prolific scholar Ahmed al-Ghazali symbolized the agent that is the Khalifa, the agent in Islamic philosophical terms by comparison with a lute instrument, you know, the little blowing instrument? He even compared the number of orifices", "totally disregarding the distinctive number of orifices in the female body from the male body. Today, women are present and accounted for at every level of the community including the scholarly and ritual community. Women participate fully in establishing new canon, constructing new traditions, forming new policies living in the present with a loving yet critical eye on the past", "towards the future. This is proving to be a bit of a corrective for the asymmetry between women and men in Muslim communities. However, we do not go about this without some contention between our voices, perspectives, methods, and objectives. This natural inevitable and for the most part useful. What I will describe here", "What I describe here is the historical evolution of three major perspectives regarding Islam and gender reform. The names I have given to each are also not necessarily confirmed by consensus either, but I hope that the way that I use these classifications will be self-explanatory and will facilitate discussion afterwards. Of course in our history there has always been some advocates", "some advocates for gender justice. We go back maybe to the Prophet's time, people like to mention one of the Prophet wives Umm Salama and after her interrogation of the prophet about the nature of Quranic revelation and to whom that revelation was addressed there was a verse revealed that was very explicitly inclusive indeed for all men and women who have rendered themselves unto Allah", "She pretty much asked, what about women? And then Allah came to Prophet Muhammad with the verse and it was very specific to everybody. So you know, he asked him, he received. For all truly devout men and all truly-devout women, all women and men who are true to their word, all men and women who are patient in adversity etc., etc.", "but the voices were still very limited in number. So, the point here is as if the Qur'an says that the Qur-an is addressed to both women and men. And it is, especially in terms of its ultimate objective which is human guidance. And while the text is clear about this ultimate objective there are still many passages in the Qurr'an", "in that community. There are passages addressed exclusively to men as male persons. Throughout the text there is an intricate balance between the speaker, Allah, the performance voice, the prophet, the voice of those whose stories are told therein and those to whom the text speaks which is both the specific community living with the prophet", "of certain exceptional historical voices against gender inequality. Today what we are experiencing is a mass movement of women and men against gender asymmetry as injustice. It matters very little if this injustice was established by intent or by accident of discrimination. The Muslim Women's Movements", "Chief among these developments was the rise and fall of colonialism, and thus the rise of the nation-state as a consequence of for one thing certain nationalist movements. Unfortunately women were often not equal beneficiaries of the spoils of these new nationalist regiments. True. This is the place where the modern Muslim women's movement began in earnest.", "Like with the current Arab Spring, Muslim women stood side by side with their men or with Muslim men to throw off the shackles of colonialism and build nationalist movements. At that time most women's organizations were branches of larger nationalist organizations. Once the victory of independence was won it was not uncommon for women to be asked to return to the home and give back.", "not subscribed you should because the ad is starting pretty soon and you're gonna miss out on this fabulous, fabulous lecture right here. Have fun with that!", "from the larger men or nationalist organizations for political, social economic and legal rights. As Margot Badran wrote, women had a rude awakening when it became clear that liberal men were not prepared to implement their promise to integrate women into public life after nominal political independence. The Muslim Women's Movement then dates back to this rupture between the development of", "and the prohibition against women's full participation. The development of the nation-state in the end of colonialism was also the beginning of a new global awareness. This awareness consists of recognizing local, regional or national realities against and within the context of realities in a world unlike one's own. Such global awareness is", "beyond narrow local imagination and praxis, even as it must be seen as a reflection of the other. Thus our present time is not the only time. Our current place is not he only place. Our existing customs are not the one customs. Our world view not the own world view. These basic elements of pluralism become essential for the global women's movement.", "The first wave Muslim women's movement consisted of a kind of methodological overlap and also some repetitions, all aligned with how the nation state would operate including personal status law or family law which would only be canonized after the colonial period.", "well-educated and often well traveled women who had seen firsthand that the world is not uniform. They stood up as Muslim women, and as citizens of these new nation states. After this first wave Muslim Women's Movement, the secular feminist and Islamist articulations of Muslim women's liberation would develop into opposing camps. So at first there was a little bit more integration", "integration and then there's this development of an opposition which is important to think about. The secular Muslim feminist movement is premised upon the idea that religions are the cause of women's oppression, and that they are too patriarchal for redemption. Whether religion is relegated to a personal response or altogether irrelevant depends upon the religiosity of the individual. Deference", "national instruments as developed by the United Nations and ascribed as universal. Quote, although Universalism as it exists today is generally criticized for its implicit ethnocentrism and leaning towards so-called Western values most women nevertheless recognize that need for support the principle of", "in human rights. This discourse participates in the inherent conflict between women's rights and cultures, and according to Madhavi Sunder, but religion qua religion is less the problem than our traditional legal constructions of this category. Premised on centuries-old enlightenment compromise that justified reason", "deference to religious despotism in the private, human rights law continues to define religion in the 21st century as a sovereign extra-legal jurisdiction in which inequality is not only accepted but expected. Law views religion as natural, irrational, incontestable and imposed. In contrast", "for freedom and reason. Simply put, religion is the other of international law.\" At the time of the establishment of the nation state, the crucial question of the role of religion in the political process led to two opposing sides. One advocating a separation of the state from religion who would begin to self-identify as secular", "unquestionable version of Islam as state and religion or state and faith. The term secular would morph from the simple separation into its more aggressive form. In Islam we believe in secularism, like I said there's no compulsion in religion so like um like we should live in harmony with anybody whether they are of faith", "Because like to each their own. And this one of the verses in Quran says, you have your religion and I have my religion too, you know? And so it's like, you may have your own religion. That's fine. You practice it however you want to. That is your business. I have mine own religion and that is mine and to you is yours.", "marginalizing God or sometimes even announcing his death, placing the human at the center of the universe as its logo. This articulation of secularism would become even more coherent with the rise of the other outspoken public voice in favor of Islam which would grow into political Islam that is the Islamist movement. Throwing off the shackles", "challenging the very aspects of the colonialist worldview. The most uniform response to the problems related to the post-colonial Muslim context was a cry to return to the glorious pasts of the Islamic empire. With Islam as a solution, a new development emerged in the women's movement as well. Islam as global phenomena with a substantial history is in fact an important aspect", "important aspect of the debates but the question is can we or should we go back to it? The merit of the call to return to Islam was that it is both authentic and authoritative. However as it continued, it moved to reject all other world views as un-Islamic. The Islamist agenda then mandates a return to a perfect Islam", "of the Prophet. The intent is to take the spirit of Islam and the soul of Muslim identity, to organize the politics of a new world order.\" Quote,", "like if you want to go back to the way it was Back in the days of the Prophet. I think it was very similar to a ways that it is now You know so I mean if you wanna take us past That's a different story Than what we're trying to say They came to be suspicious of many traditions of Islamic thought and practice that developed through time according to Omid Safi", "The Islamist agenda is encapsulated within a cry for the return to Sharia.", "and is hugely effective antithesis to secular ideas in authoritarian regimes. At the level of the general public, the cry for a return to Sharia is generally reductionist collapsing the universal principles of Sharia with the juridical methods and mechanisms of implementation known as Sfik or the codes that have been produced by this Sfic. The root definition", "path that leads to water, that is the source of all life. Thus it is universal divine sublime and an ideal. The goal of this ideal society or the muqasid is justice. The more coherent definition of... Is it in hadith or not even? Or she about to get into it? I don't know but it's i think it's more based on like hadith and like", "yeah that's the best way i could think of it would be based off of is more hadith and maybe a little bit off the quran um because like there's different parts where it says like you know about uh inheritance so like that may be like part of it but like a majority of it probably is made up from hadith as like a way to yeah streamline it back to", "to like Islam but it's not. Take those notes. The Islamic law that the Islamists are hoping to achieve is Sfik, which is the efforts across Muslim history for understanding that universal or simply jurisprudence. To distinguish between these two is crucial for debunking the claim that somehow if Muslim nation states were", "By toggling between the universal intent of Sharia, which is justice and the human necessarily fallible thus subject to change mechanisms for its implementation or fiqh. The Islamists furthermore take license in condemning any who criticize their programs as if they are against Islam. Anyone who resists the establishment of their specific goals", "implementation of the immutable divine order and even an unbeliever. However, Sharia cannot be implemented except through human procedural means and that is Zvik which has always been subject to debate, has always diverse, has alway been flexible. Thus this lack of uniformity which we can confirm even by today's modern existence", "Sunni schools and at least one major Shia school means there is no such thing as pure and simple Islamic law. We are up against different realities by the creation of the nation state, as well, and by the pluralism of the continual relationship at an international level. There has yet to be a single system constructed", "authenticity and that fulfills all of their objectives. In the nation state, all policies are subject to public debate including from non-Muslims. Implementation can only occur by the will of the people. People are open to disagree however it is clear that whoever has the power to enforce", "and not the Islamic law of Islam. The fact that ruling elites sometimes make claims to legitimize their control of the state in the name of Islam does not mean that such claims are true. You see this honestly like time and time again when it comes down to, hey kitty,", "I think of like the Taliban in Afghanistan, you know, basically what they say is true and therefore their interpretation of Islam. And so therefore it's right.", "formulation of Muslim personal status law, Muslim families were unconditionally patriarchal. Women who followed the Islamist agenda promote the significance of the sanctity of family without offering any analysis of what constitutes family and whether existing families are fulfilling the ideals deemed essential to that constitution.", "Any real crisis experienced in the family is instead simply charged...", "to family is Islam and failed families are un-Islamic. Although an important public role for women has also resulted within the Islamist agenda, women's unquestionable obedience to family in its primitive patriarchal form is still unquestioned. Consequently a bifurcation often occurs between women's public empowerment", "A pivotal moment in considering whose voices was most beneficial to the cause of Muslim women's well-being, liberation, autonomy and citizenship came in 1995 with the Beijing International Conference for Women. The Islamists who were present applauded the wisdom behind Islam's position on women.", "than to find some united agenda for all Muslim women present and for those women whom they claim to represent. Let's look at the larger context of the Beijing meetings. The purpose was to discuss the UN Convention for the Elimination of All Forms of Discrimination Against Women, or CEDAW.", "for all nation from all nation states and a larger goal to address gross inequalities between female and male citizens of the world. Muslim feminists are closely aligned to the secular trajectory of these international instruments they are cons- Did I accidentally misgender them? I'm so sorry their penguins are cute too. Ah well you know, you'll have to start using some of them in my chat so i could see them", "...universal and not subject to individual states. If there's any conflict, as has been shown to be inevitable, then Muslim women who hope to change gross social and cultural injustices in the context of Muslim majority nation-states must support the UN agendas and reject the cries of the ultra conservative religious.", "then human rights must reign. Religion must be kept out of the debates. Wait, is today like National Envy Day or what? Well, yeah, because it's not... Well, depending on where you are. It's a new day here. It' Saturday morning where I'm at. Oh, those are cute. I like those emotes. Everyone has good emotes", "has good emotes on Twitch. I'm ready and excited for my emote debut soon. To assume that religion would stay out of the debates was both naive and dangerous. For one thing, such a response increased the fervor of the Islamists who also insist... Apparently several people wish me a happy NB day today. Well, happy post-NB day", "day for you because you're not also in on nb day either but belated that's the word i'm like a belated and b-day friend oh wow wait i'm lurking is it mb date yeah apparently uh yesterday or today depending if", "you got two minutes left on the west coast. But yeah, apparently today was National NB World Day. So happy NB Days to all the NBs out there. Got love for y'all.", "Whether the sources of this solution was explicit texts from the Quran or Sunnah, developed by early jurists or past and present intellectuals, or rendered by increasingly web-based media savvy ad hoc authorities whose interpretation rarely take adequate consideration of our complex current circumstances and live realities, still such solutions were seen as immutable, divine.", "got told that because I told a doctor 10 years ago that I'm male, that I am male today. You know? Wow. That's not cool. For sure. Lamenting laminating because you're going to laminate this. Lamento to relate. Yeah, thank you. You're more than welcome to lament and to trauma dump in my", "community and that's fine you know some of us just need that that day let's just talk through you know because you know i was a baby 39 years ago i'm still a baby today i mean we're all babies in our heads not really not really let me just let me let me", "human-made systems, documents or international instruments. As if we could really implement God's law without people's intervention and interpretation. True. At the International Women's Conference, the animosity between those who advocated for the international instruments as the sole method for advancing the cause of Muslim women were put face to face with those who", "of Islam as their method. A third perspective was also present, but it was in its nascent stage with no clear methodology or implementable strategy let alone coherent objectives. However most importantly it argued that the either-or dichotomy did not reflect", "The idea that there must be either human rights or Islam was false. Surely, there are challenges to be launched against the international assertions of universal human rights but the goal is not to abandon them altogether rather to read in the nuance quote for human rights to be universal it must be integral to the culture and experiences", "Human rights require validation in terms of values in each culture and in terms shared and similar values of all cultures. Most Muslim women then, you can see unquestionably identify with Islam. At the same time many Muslim women express concern over experiences", "of disjuncture between what is promoted as the ideal of Islam and their own lived realities. Yes, just because I'm LGBTQ and queer and like I need a husband to take me and guide me in the right path because I don't know what I'm doing because you know being queer is just so bad as a woman in Islam.", "Yeah, I've had that chud come in my chat before and say that. Mm-hmm, mm-hmm yeah because I don't know any better myself right?", "clarification was needed to distinguish this third perspective from the Islamists because this third prospective also refused to disavow Islam. Personally I chose to identify myself by a two-part name, pro faith and pro feminist so pro Islam and pro feminism. On the other hand", "the underlying patriarchal structure in the development of Islamic canon and in Muslim cultures. As such, they were shunned by the Islamists as being one-and-the-same as secular Muslim feminists. In fact this is when the secular feminist identity became most coherent. Before this time with very few exceptions, Muslim women argued as Muslims maintaining a kind", "be it un-interrogated. With the rise of Islamism, this un- interrogated Islam took on political force. Those who had been developing along the lines of a global perspective on gender and women's rights began to lean more towards left. Some were ambiguous about religions, others were religiously nonconforming while still others were willing to negate religion in all forms including or especially", "especially the one they were born into. The fervor of removing Islam from the argument over gender rights moved towards what I am now identifying as the secular Muslim feminist movement. This perspective would become more pronounced from this time forward, that is so at the end of the 20th century this movement became more clear. It's rare to hear a Muslim woman disavowing Islam in the earlier,", "women's movements. However, the conflated understanding of universal human rights and the post-enlightenment distinction between such rights and religion was combined...", "I think it's cool to talk about religions and like, you know. I'm not against anybody who is religious or non-religious that's your personal decision but I love learning about different religions around the world. I think its pretty cool.", "Islamic sources was abandoned and condemned as backwards. As such, the development of a new more nuanced mediating articulation would go unnoticed for some time in an effort to defeat the ill effects of Islamism with its exclusionary vision of the future for Muslims international funders and research organizations rally to support Muslim feminist", "was to critique definitions of the key terms, Islam, human rights and feminism. And to interrogate their varied relevance to the lives of Muslim women. In fact, the term feminism became a linchpin. It's interesting to note that neither term, Islam or feminism were subjected to more dynamic development initially. However without this interrogation it is difficult", "it is difficult to distinguish the next development of gender discourse in action. The meeting of Islam and feminism was only possible when such an interrogation was followed through. Heretofore, feminism had to be Western, had to secular. For those who would develop into or were already self-recognized as secular feminists this projection of feminism was not a problem.", "Similarly, for the Islamists this projection was unproblematic because it helped to fuel their refusal to adapt the term feminist no matter what the nature of their advocacy or activism. For a period of time this reified usage of the term feminists help clarify who is who. Equally problematic however was the reified", "which was acceptable to both groups. When both terms, that is Islam and feminism were challenged then the edges of the debate moved forward by leaps and bounds and that would be the beginning of Islamic Feminism. The post-colonial feminist analysis raised question of imperialists and essentialist assumptions of the liberal feminist project where third world women and Muslim women are victims", "needing to be rescued and rehabilitated. Quote, liberal feminist positions have not adequately addressed how the colonial past continues to inform the post-colonial present contemporary relationships of domination and subordination and understandings of difference where treatment of difference is connected", "feminist project of human rights assumes that women's needs and desires are both universal and uniform. Gender becomes a universalizing strategy that argues that all women are similarly oppressed. Gender become the axis of identity and location devoid of an analysis of economics, labor, ideology, ethnicity, politics, sexuality", "It was easy enough, however to interrogate the term feminism for its secular and western biases. Within it's own ranks these critiques had been developed by third world feminists, religious feminists African American feminist or womanist, poor feminist, Marxist feminist, lesbian or bisexual feminist in the west. Thus the term Feminism was thoroughly vetted", "its location of the first wave Western women's movements. By the second wave, the mandate for the term to reflect the live realities of more diverse women than the white middle class that it started with was well underway. Shaking the term Islam from its narrow conservative usage would take longer and in many ways it is still unfolding.", "feminist response to larger populations of women globally was already in the core of the term feminism as defined by Simone de Beauvoir. The radical idea that women are human beings. In this regard, since international documents for human rights are... Wait what? You don't say women are", "because, you know, then they'll find out that we're really human beings. Holy shit! Also attempts to articulate a fundamental idea of what it means to be human, it has also been challenged in the context of complex global pluralism. The existence of more and more specific documents like the rights of the child indicate", "it's used to reach its own goal of universalism. The problem of the notion of human being as viewed by the relativists is that it is in fact relative. Unless and until all human beings accept the notions, the goal has not been reached. One of the main contributions of Islamic feminism to the women's movement was the authentic challenge to the politicization of the neoconservative understanding of Islam.", "Wait, wait now you're gonna tell me children are people too?", "I hope that you are, inshallah, you'll be doing better soon.", "historical and cultural context limits a woman's agency to God only as it manifests in her agency to men and to family. The agency of the man, however, remained independent or direct to God even when family relationships could be seen as important. The best way to locate that discrepancy between women and men's human agency", "The person is not adjudicated in Muslim personal status law. It is the status of the person within the patriarchal family that is adjudicatd. Establishing and maintaining the patriarchial family does not require women's human rights or agency. It does not even require social justice in the way we understand it today.", "a result of the exclusion of women's perspectives from the codification process and the establishment of the primary canon. In the classical fixed text, women are depicted as sexual beings not as social beings, and their rights are discussed only in the context of family law. The classical fixed notion of women' rights is nowhere more evident than in the definition", "which treats women as semi-slaves.", "what you're not able to do, like what your rights are as a spouse to this person. But yeah, it's not really in the Quran about that. And there was some people who get married Islamically and that's just like a marriage contract or whatever but that's also not real marriage. There's nothing in the Qur'an that says hey if you sign this marriage contract then you're automatically", "automatically married. There's nothing of the sort in that, so like the only real way to get married in Islam is to get by the state. I mean if your imam holds the power of the state to do such things and then you do the normal things you got to do till they get it legalized and recognized, then yeah, that's the way you're supposed to do it.", "Muslim societies was and still is sustained largely through the rules that classical jurists devise for regulating the formation and termination of the marriage contract. In this respect, there's really no major difference between the various fixed schools all share the same inner logic and conception of family according to Ziba Mir Hussaini.", "unequal or complementary relationships. Does this complementarity fulfill the divine purpose on earth, or achieve agency? The ultimate obligation of all human beings created by Allah? A woman's service to men or family should never be a trade-off for her service and agency to Allah. However in the patriarchal family structure,", "the challenge to the autonomy of women's agency are seen as good and natural byproducts of her nature. Furthermore, to reject the patriarchal family would have been seen as the same as rejecting to participate in the community or even in Islam. It was not a price the overwhelming majority of Muslim women were willing to pay so they made their peace with it. Eventually, the Islamist agenda", "that would advocate the wisdom of this structure. Even the secularists would acquiesce to it. No one questioned the Islamic origin of this asymmetry. How do we determine if this was a divine intent or the product of interpreters who were limited to and influenced by their own social and cultural realities? Since no articulation of egalitarian family", "developed in Islamic law or envisioned by secular Muslim feminists and Islamist alike, this very notion of family became indisputable. Oh yeah, I hella smoke weed! This was where a radical reform was needed. It could only revolve with the rigorous overall of the underlying notion of human being and family in Islam.", "This sounds like a plan, Wather.", "Meanwhile, Islamist women who brought their agency forward into the public domain as well acquiesced to notions of family that left them subservient. More importantly in the public realm, Islamists women advocated loudly for maintaining this deference in the private sphere. This advocacy was in fact crucial to their legitimacy as activists in the Public Domain. There is no doubt that women's roles in Islam are part of current global debates", "debates. More importantly, unlike at any other time in history Muslim women themselves are leading these debates. I've tried to outline here the differences between three main perspectives in the debates. Certainly there are far more nuances taking control over what the future of Islam and gender will look like. At stake is the fundamental understanding", "of Allah and as citizens in the global context. As Muslim women, notions of gender from pre-modern times are untenable. However, the ability to counter such ideas by formulating new ones has gained momentum only within an Islamic framework with the kind of work that has been done under the banner of Islamic feminism.", "egalitarian epistemology of Islam based on its own primary sources without the intermediary of patriarchal thinking. Islamic feminism says, Islam belongs to all of us. All of us have a stake in how our religion is defined but also how religious ideas are implemented", "notions about women's subservience as a result of certain medieval constructions reflecting the understanding of jurists and philosophers at the time are not divine constructions we are free thank you for the follow i'm not quite sure how to pronounce it is it uh and in our i'm gonna uh you you ask eve there we go did that say it right", "Women needed to be protected. The selected historical fic to meet the social needs of women then remained part of the tradition.", "for it and I'm happy for you. I love that for you, but I don't love that", "Rather, justice is seen as a relationship of horizontal reciprocity to other human beings because of a profound understanding of the divine mandate of the oneness of God. In other words, Tauhid becomes the basic operating principle for the reform of Islam and Islamic thought", "relations of equality and reciprocity. At the metaphysical level, God is the highest ultimate reality but that has to be implemented in the actions of the law and then the development of policy as well as in the home and family. For women and gender then, the question is not whether or not we want", "the reality of this harmony and reciprocity. Thank you very much.", "Perfectly A-OK by me. But yeah. They do not depend on men for their humanity. True story. Like, Amina's got like all of the shit. She's just so like a hero. I'm always here for her", "Good afternoon and welcome to all of you!", "to her of course she does have her own um youtube that i am know that i'm subscribed to it has to be further down maybe closer to like newer no no", "How is this organized? How? It's like...", "She had a... She changed her... She... Changed this. Closing this account, and then right, so she closed this one The Lady Mom That's what I'm looking for Will you not let me copy? Oh fine Whatever", "So yeah, so she has like her own channel if y'all ever want to let go check out some of her stuff You too sucks god it sucks so bad now", "so bad now for what how i streamed to it's not highly enjoyable yeah unusable yeah it can be definitely um but yeah like she's great she's", "She's just like, it like all about it. You know? Like I talk about all the time, like you just have to be open to it and like, like I said she's in the queer community and feminism and like stuff", "Her books are amazing. Amazing, amazing, amazing reads. And if you want to like the previous video that we watched. Her book is The Quran and Women Reading the Sacred Text. Which if you came in a little bit with JJ's raid. Y'all kind of caught the tail end of that.", "But we're going through her book and stuff. But I do want to like go through hers because she was going to do one. Oh, oh, hey, these videos are fairly recent. I am here for that. I'm here for it.", "you know oh yeah that's what they always tell you to hear that like women can't pray while they're on their menstruation cycle which is also a lie so you know i'm so sorry that happened rose if you need to take the time to go and take care of you then um", "go do that you know um what we say in islam is uh till from allah's we come from and to allah as well we will return i'm so sorry and then no amount of words can comfort you at this time for this right now", "So yeah She broke up with her girlfriend Yeah, I do too. I deal with", "chronic ideations too i've been there and done that um you know i have depression and anxiety i've had thoughts to unalive myself um you like yeah it's not fun having depression or any mental illnesses and you know just the little things that can knock you off the wrong way", "the wrong way. You know? So make sure you check in with your friends today. Give them some love, give you know whoever you care about some love tell them you love them tell him you care", "Because that's important. You know, animals give a lot of love too. I have a dog and I have cat. And they're my world. And I would not know what to do without them. Yes, I just try to be there as much as possible or save energy for helping when I can. Just to say hello or anything. I wish I had a doggo.", "I'm like contemplating whether or not if I want to do, like... If I get a hundred sub goals. Then I'll do a Lily stream. Which is my dog's name. I keep trying to figure out if I wanna do that or not. Because she's a sweetheart. She's just a sweetheart, I love her. And they're both technically in my emotional support animals. You know? Lily's enjoying being a dog.", "being a dog more than she's enjoying being an emotional support pet at the time right now so that's part of the reason why i have rosie because when lily's outside and chilling you know i'm maybe having a day but literally it's just like nah mom i don't i don' want to come inside i love you i'll lick your tears but like that's as far as i'm going for right now", "But yeah, Rosie. Rosie hasn't seen me super bad but I give her and Lily a lot of pets and Rosie and Lily are best friends and they love each other and they're just sweet. I have a big old pit bull. She's just a sweetheart and I hate that like pit bulls get such a bad rep when they're like just sweethearts. Just total sweetheards. You just need to", "And I adopted Rosie. Or excuse me Lily. You know. I rescued her from a rescue. Um and then I kind of bought Rosie off of Craigslist which I know is bad. I shouldn't have did it but I was just like I wanted a specific dog. You", "and blue, and there just so happened to be a Russian blues. So you know...so I live in Colorado right now, um, and when I lived in Aurora, Colorado, there was a pitbull band and I never heard of that. Yeah, Denver used to have like a big old Pitbull-like band but", "the, like, uh, county, like what's that animal society of Denver or whatever. And so then like, then after the two years you're, you're finished, like you don't have to like report your dog or anything as long as you keep up to date, like with them or whatever, then they're fine. Um, but yeah, so I'm like, sweet,", "But yeah, like I'm glad that like Denver passed that ordinance to allow pit bulls because it was a dumb law. Because in Colorado, right? The statistics were actually like smaller dogs were doing the most bites, right? It wasn't like pit bull and wasn't the big dogs. It was smaller dogs who were biting more and were more aggressive. So I always thought that was funny.", "I thought was funny. I was like so y'all like got rid of the pitbulls thinking and I was gonna solve the problem But that really wasn't a problem You know, oh There she is Me owing Oh there she is Hi kitty what you gonna jump over here come here kitty", "Kitty. This is Rosie. I love you, my sweet kitty. She's a big old sweetie. I'm in Austin which is almost cool but still Texas. Yeah. Move back to Colorado. Move", "You can take shrooms in Colorado. Or specifically Denver. And it's fine. It's totally legal. You can do ketamine treatments, which you can also do in Texas too. But yeah. And if you have been enjoying my stream so far and what I've been talking about, please consider subscribing. I'm just a small streamer. There aren't a lot of people who look like me literally doing this.", "Doing this. What I'm doing. And not a lot of people like black women and such, like doing panels and stuff and being panelists. So if you'd like to support me and this gorgeous kitty, please, please subscribe because your ads are about to happen right now. Who hates ads? I do. Support the kitties!", "Support the kitty! Support the Kitty! Subscribe! Say subscribe, Rosie! Say Subscribe! say subscribe say subscribe subscribe kitty I'm like meow meow", "Yes, this boy can't be all my happy kid. Oh, I love you. Yes, yes, I know. Okay, are you ready? Ready to be down? Huh? She won't fall asleep in my arms like at all. At all. You know? Like I don't know", "I'm like, I want her to fall asleep on me one day or just be chill. And she's just not that way. Like, I'll fall asleep petting her, right? And then she'll be like, oh, you're asleep? Cool, I'm gonna move now. Shit, I got all this hair. Hold up. You know?", "She's just so fluffy. But she's such a sweetheart. I love her. You know, she bit me right now as you can see but that's pretty normal. Yeah, I like cut her nails earlier today and I have to put a mask thing on her face because otherwise she'll just bite me the whole entire time when I'm trying to trim her nails. And she'll", "I can handle the scratching from like, the bottom legs but like...I can't handle the scratch and the biting at the same time. So I try to do it really quickly and then you know just... She's like alright I'm done like... I'm chill can you take this off my head please now? I'm over it.", "It's got to be done and you know not paying anybody that cut these nails like it's Less than five minutes to do You know, just depends on how quickly she wants me to get them done She does not like me touching her like paws in her nails and stuff. I wish she didn't though or what? I'm saying I wish he'd like yeah But she didn' like it or that same day was she was like chiller about it I guess cuz like when I do it to Lily then like, you know", "you know she just watches Lily and Lily doesn't have a reaction Lily is pretty chill like she's fine right but it's just like yeah no because Rosie will like literally be like Lily like she is almost like a dog almost like adopt except she meows and Lily barks only outside though not inside the house", "for a long time she does she'd she would bark like she like never really barked or anything you know for many many years that i had her she didn't bark you know and like unless you were like really like playing with her and then like you like she likes to be chased and so i'd be like okay like you know if you were taking too long to chase her you'd like kind of wait around or whatever then she'd be", "See if I had a cat like a dog, I'd take the cat. Yeah. Um, I taught my cat how to use the toilet. So she uses the toilet which reminds me that maybe why she's meowing at me but I put litter down so she should be okay. She's just meowing. Just a meow. She sitting in like my window right now with the window open like...", "all the bugs outside and stuff. Like, I don't dislike cats but I mostly don't favor them unless they're kinky and sweet in which case that's my shade. Yeah, she's a sweetheart like you know for some people that I've come have in my house. You know? I don' really like having people over anyway because of COVID and shit", "And, you know. I'm disabled and shit. And like... Uh... I really don't want to be sick like that. So she's been pretty okay with it. But most of the time I just put her in her kennel. And just let her be while whoever is in my house is here. Just so that way we're not overwhelmed by her. Or she's just like... Oh what are you doing? Oh let me go and do this while you're here.", "While you're here. You know? But she's a sweet. She's a really sweet cat. I'm glad to have her. I'll have to like... I'll post pictures of like... Her licking and pawing my dog. It's the fucking sweetest. And the cutest thing ever. You will just be like, okay. Here, here. I lift up a little bit. And she'll just go start licking on her.", "Licking on her. And pawing on her and it's just the cute, it's so cute I've even like had some where she's kind of licking right above Lily's nose And i'm just like What are you doing? Why is this so damn cute? I do have discord! Exclamation Discord in my chat We'll get to that", "so like yeah i like have to it was being cute and sweet kills me right i i think i did post a on discord and not like pictures or anything but like i'm pretty sure i made a pets channel did i make the pets channels how did i got i get away i give art i get selfies but i didn't do like animals", "Okay. There we go. Well, now we got the animals chat in there so that way any of y'all who like to share pictures or anything of that sort of their animals then you're more than welcome to. I'm gonna go figure out why this cat is meowing", "is meowing at me. I'll be right back because that probably also means I should probably go to the bathroom myself anyway while I'm there. So BRB, y'all. I'm just going to put it on the BRB chat. I will just be in the bathroom real quick. Give me a couple minutes please and I'll", "I'm going to make a little bit of the same.", "I'm going to make a little bit of a mess.", "I'm going to make a little bit of the same thing.", "I see y'all in chat. I see how this is. Y'all just gonna throw your shit all over the floor? Be irresponsible? Try to have anarchy? What the fuck? Don't you know you are in the queen zone right here? Okay, I'm the queen.", "I'm the queen. I'm who tells you to do that shit, not the motherfucking other way around So look here No we didn't do nothing why is all this shit all over the floor", "Let me see. I was thinking about playing some Fortnite, which I know if y'all gaming frogs want to leave and that's fine. I see where you got what y' all the dog did it. What the fuck? The dog ate my homework.", "The cat peed on my homework. Oh shit, Rosie Rosie oh shit ball she's oh shit She just hopped up on my desk and I'm like can you move? You know like I would prefer if you weren't here", "probably should smoke another bowl it's been a minute i try to keep her out of this area for the most part just because it's a lot of electronics and um what you might call it uh cords and and you know how much cats love that you know i mean you're also my ma jj so", "So about that. I'm just kidding. What the fuck happened on? What did my cat do on this screen? I don't even know what the fuck does she do? Oh, I'm like, what does she", "someone stream live. I'm like, great. Great. Alright, so about that bowl that I want to be smoking. Should probably grind up a little bit more weed for it. Also, Water Porch 1994 on Battle.net if you play Diablo or anything.", "I do not play anything Diablo related. Although, Pega's playing M. Like, I have their stream open. I just wanted to see what she was doing because we're probably going to play Fortnite. But yeah, like I just I play on the Switch. Okay, so this is what you got to understand. I'm strictly Nintendo everything. It's pretty hard for me", "away from nintendo i'm very well invested everything into nintendo which it's just i know so many so many issues with that you know down to play on chumash or with chatters and with chatter is for sure just put it out there because i'm lonely omegle law i feel that um like when it comes down to", "Play with regular chatters. So if you want to play fortnight with me Become a regular chatter be here all the time and chances are I'll be like hey, you wanna play? it's just because like I've had a couple of bad experiences playing with randoms and I just don't want that for myself or for any of you watching You know so I got switch in a ps5 this same", "PS5 the same day my favorite system is now switch for life Yeah, so you know I mean like I said I'm a small streamer So it's not like I have like too many chatters and stuff like in here You know some sometimes. I'm all one viewer Andy which really means that you have no viewers That's really what that means when you're on one viewer and he means you have zero viewers The only person who's watching his twitch and this just to make you", "And it's just to make you feel better about, you know. Someone's watching you. But not really watching you but watching you, you feel me? I love classic retro games pixel games Metrovania. I love the handheld. Yeah like it's Just nice that like it convenient you can take it with you or you can like put in on your TV or whatever", "and so I'm always like yeah, why wouldn't you? I bought the OLED switch since I wasn't really... Oh shit! Is this seeds? Please tell me these are seeds. These look like seeds.", "When you find seeds and weed. That's just chef's kiss. Love that shit. The OLED is not bad at all. It's not bad, but I very rarely play it handheld just because I don't want to fuck up the OLED. I mean, I did put a screen on it, granted.", "Granted, because I do drop shit. I'm fucking clumsy and I've dropped it a couple times. But you know the screen's fine. The controllers are fine because I put like a thing on that too. Oh yeah. Fuck yeah. I must save these. I am not gonna... And now I just okay so these are Oreos but there wasn't a label either like go when I went to the spencer earlier this week", "week I was like do y'all have any more whatever I bought last week cuz I was", "back in here for now. Because I have to figure out where to put seeds and shit. Because like, I'll accidentally throw this shit away if I'm not careful. Like, I had a bunch of safe seeds, and then a friend took them all. And so now I have no seeds, especially my favorite purple herbal. Do you know what", "what I would do to kill for some purple Urkel like from California, from where I'm from. From that particular strain that I liked loved and like bought pounds of. Purple Urkel is like my favorite strain to get me to go to sleep gets me a little hungry. I eat my little snack and then I pass the fuck out you know or if you know you eat your little snack first", "and you smoke it until it makes you sleepy that's the best oh yeah I'm an indica gal yeah I don't I mean I'm more of a sativa person but when it comes to night like strains like genuinely affect me like I used", "like I'm a firm believer that they totally 100 do just cuz like it's not sativas work really great for like when I'm in it during the day and like I've been trying to think or whatever or like playing video games like now I'm gonna smoke this sativa um but like if I'm going to bed or like I want to chill the out I'm Gonna Smoke myself an endicott if I want", "will always have a sativa and an endicott on hand just because like i i always need something to get me to sleep and i always needs something to kind of get me up and going you know no matter what time of day it might maybe may i share a product link for a sick ass choice controller sure my diabetes and the fact that i smoke every couple hours", "that still hits. Yeah, like everyone has their own things. I'm taking a break from smoking dabs because I was smoking dubs for a while but I'm thinking health-wise it may just be I'm doing too much now but I am doing an experiment with myself right now trying to figure out whether or not I'm going to get sick or not", "not so yeah it's both an external and attachable gamecube waybird s controller oh let me see how i", "of this link that you sent let me see here huh yeah so like I wanted like a like a uh like a controller that looked very much um from the GameCube days because i used to have a game cube", "And like the only purple GameCube controller looking game controller. Is only... Like you have to plug it in or whatever. And I'm just all like, that defeats the purpose of it. So I'm like, well, that's cool. Great. Oh wait, okay, I see it. It's like purple, but is it?", "Is it wireless though? Rechargeable battery. Well, that's nice. Game... Preferred gamepad for Super Smash Brothers which I have and have not played in forever.", "A mecha tactile button trigger. Huh, I may have to look into some of this. This looks cool. So you can also control the vibrations on it? Yeah because i just have the pro controller for it and i just added the little buttons but", "But yeah. This is cool. I may have to look into this. Oh wait. Oh shit so you can put it on your oh shit huh? So you can hook it up to your", "Your... Your switch, like, is as if it was the controllers themselves. Oh shit! That's badass. Okay well I'm gonna save this link for myself. Chat you know in order for me to purchase this for $69.99 and I'm going to need some more subs.", "Yeah, no that shit's cool. Thanks for sending that link That's super cool More subs now right? Right, you know if you're feeling particularly generous or filling very oily today gift subs work too", "I looked down at Rosie and she's like, are you going to say something? Are you going yell at me? I'm just gonna know. No, because obviously I knew she was going to try getting that back. And I look down on her and she was like no don't get in my bag. Absolutely oily. You know.", "Support black streamers support your local black streamer. Oh shit, you know what the fuck I supposed to be doing Smoking before you got me sidetracked water porch Before you got any distracted it was gonna smoke", "Okay. Oh, shit. Don't want that to fall. Yeah. I have a student glass where I smoke sometimes from my volcano and then, you know, everyone's got a whip. So, you", "come in here and smoke oh my god viporia a volcano oh yeah i love my volcano that's honestly like like i mostly use that at night i do use it occasionally in here but like when i smoke out of the bags or with", "as good of the same effect as like when I smoke out of my student glass. Because I got this student glass which is a gravity ball just to smoke dabs out of but since i'm taking the break from dabbing, it's like well now I can just use it to actually smoke weed out of it why not right? I'm here for it!", "The only thing is that you have to buy your own like thing, you know bull Because it doesn't come with its own bowl Which is dumb Oh Yeah, it seems fine I just I just because when you turn it right it it shoots up all the smoke", "Shoots up all the smoke. To you. Like I. I smoke a little bit of it first. Before turning it. Over to get the rest of it. Just because like. I don't want to be like. Well shit. I'm just wasting all this weed. Because it's just. Gravity pulls it all out. And then. Fuck I'm like coughing. And you can't stop it. Two grams for 30 nice. Yeah.", "yeah um i have um my med so everything i buy is for med because i obviously am disabled and i got pain and then i got all that all the basically from being a 33 year old woman okay and like i'm like okay this is cool but i can also buy uh above minimum too so like i", "of weed right i can walk out with more than two ounces of weed you know and that's just nice because then i can just like you know buy a couple ounces and then be fine for a while and just like slowly just smoke it through it you know it does suck when you like you realize like oh maybe this wasn't the best strain but like for most strains where i get it from they're pretty pog on it so that's always nice", "Should probably turn it. Cause you see, I don't know if you see the smoke coming up.", "Drink some water almost died and showed my face and shit goddamn", "That's how you know it hit real good Now I spent $2.40 for an ounce and two weeks later, I used twitch money to get a quart And almost make it through the month. I feel that", "I feel that. And I wish I could go back to wax. Cough like a bitch. Yeah, I got this disease. It's incurable. I discovered it. It is named Bitch Lung. I am dead. I'm so dead.", "I'm going to make a little bit of the same thing.", "Thank you for telling me that I'm muted. Because, you know, when you're assumed, you sometimes forget the shit, right? And that doesn't help that I already have bad memory from all the medications I already take too. But, you", "I pressed through it friends. I pressed threw it. I promise I'm worse about meeting than anyone. I don't know This if this is your first time watching me You might be surprised you might be really in in it, okay Especially when it comes to like when I'm on discord 2 Because like the second that I get on discord and then cuz like The way that my stream deck set up and shit", "setup and like i will just up like i'll forget or like i'd be saying something important and then i'll be like oh like my mic was off and i didn't even look down beforehand and i know the look down you know", "Defected me with bitch lung and you will pay for this Inshallah I'm kidding Don't click that out of context", "I do my best delivery and charismatic charisma with me. I swear same, same, like I was on panel earlier this week and like you know they're like all right we'll get to be queen your chance to talk and then I was talking and talking and then like I looked down and I'm like oh shit that's right my stream deck was like fucked up", "on like the stream deck so I like manually had muted it. So, I don't even know if my chat even heard my grand speech what I had to say cause uh...I fucked up. I'm like I didn't have my mic on and its just been fucking up as of late. Stream Deck has really been fucking", "Get your shit together, please especially for Mac can we can we I Don't even know what it is. I honestly don't know what this It was your best speech you know I'm often the only woman on the panel on panels and so, you know like", "everyone's like okay you can say it and then your chat doesn't hear you good job good job you know wow and i was considering one because i use a regular eight channel not usb which taxes my sound card yeah", "I don't even know. I don' t want to go back and watch it. Let me know if I was muted, if you wanna, you know... Watch my speech from Thursday with my All Black Everything panel. I'm usually on two panels. Mine is of Esklesia that's on Lady Waterkei's channel", "I stream it on my channel, but that's who hosts it. And then I'm on All Black Everything, which is a panel of all black people from Prime K's channel. So you know, I like talking and stuff. I don't necessarily like debating per se. Like I mean, I will debate. I'm persuasive. But like, I'm not like a debate perv or anything of that sort. Yes,", "I have as many followers as Hassan you will know if I get as many subscribers as this as Hasson gets then you will no why I am called the debate queen but yeah they're all like I do stream", "two panels that i'm all on i'm always on or usually on on wednesdays and thursday nights um and and then like i said fridays there's jumma uh so i like to talk about islam because this is our our day of where we would go to like our masjid or our um our mosque we would", "you know um so it's a very like our holy day of the week basically so and it's just nice to talk about that stuff is this your normal time if so i can actually have chances to rate you and watch absolutely yeah yeah i'm a late night streamer usually", "and all that jazz, and never going anywhere. Yeah, like I just sleep all day. I sleep all night, I stream most of the night, and then yeah. But the times for the panels on Wednesdays and Thursdays are... Wednesday is at 830 Eastern", "And then on Thursday, 8 p.m. Eastern. And I live in Mountain Time so I'm two hours behind that. So... Yeah. Okay, okay. So you're on Central Time. Yes, Cookie, we're the same. Yeah, yeah.", "I'm a late night streamer. I mostly play Fortnite during the rest of the week, you know? Because it's just a fun game and... You know? I like having fun with it, you now? It's very hard for me to get really sick of a game. Really. You know. So yeah but those are the days that I start earlier", "Most of the time I start between 8 and 11 p.m., my time. I'm trying to do earlier so that way I can, like, not stream all night but still, like... I'll still be up. Like, I'm not going to bed but, like.. I'll just you know... I don't know it's more time to watch Netflix or", "Because I mostly lurk in people's, like, chats. I don't, like really say much unless I've really got something to say. So you know, I'm always like lurking. You know, i'm always there! Just, you know... Don't count me out then I'm not watching, you now? So Austin CST yeah.", "You were saying earlier you were sick, right? Otherwise I start late night and end super early late morning. Sick perfect. Oh my god, try that. Ended up going for 16 hours. Yeah, I'm not gonna go for 16 Hours. No... I gotta get- I gotta sleep somehow, right?! Oh, the lurk! That's so cute! I love it! Hey Coco!", "So yeah, like I mean, I enjoy this. It's fun. Like it like I'm not going to say that doesn't hurt to do this because it definitely literally hurts to do that. Because my disability got a couple now but life my main disabilities in my mouth and stuff and so like it hurts to eat to talk into do all these things", "things um so i guess this is also my time to kind of be social because like i'm not social obviously because i don't leave the house but like it hurts to do it do this but i also feel like i need to do this you know because like what's a great way to meet people in chat and like you know from people around the world and like have fun and like twitch is kind of like the great equalizer", "equalizer in a way you know like i just stayed my ass off twitch for the longest time i didn't find value in it until recently you know i know that there's a lot of you who've been here from jump or like longer or shorter or like yeah i'm like i", "being a part of a community like almost a year ago but i've only recently just started streaming like three months ago like if i'm like if I look back at JJ's uh three months subscription on the screen so yeah um so three months so you know I'm losing teeth last month lost my county health care insulin food stamps have a massive mouth infection with pain loose tooth", "loose tooth plus doxing off my anti or detoxing off of my antidepressants i feel you yeah friend yeah i'm so sorry like i still need to figure out my food stamp situation i've been kind of putting it off only because like", "I guess, like, I've just been, like... Not hungry. Or, like… I don't know. I don' t know what I'm doing but I need to figure out my food stamp situation back out again here soon. But yeah, and then I get Medicaid which is state, you know? Which is nice. And they cover my ketamine treatments in the State of Colorado", "So, food stamps is brutal. They won't choose a register with the workforce here. Oh, that's right. They give you like a work requirement and shit. Fucking Republican state. Why did you move there? Why did", "Like, Texas is not a friendly place. You know? I mean, I'm sure you had good reason. I'm not doubting you. Food stamps is the state or well how do I put this?", "the government gives each state funds um so that way people can go to stores and buy food and so they give you like a little like debit card for instance and they preload the money on their the card every month and then you use that to go out and buy uh food we call it ebt here really", "was like way back when if they would mail you out food stamps like there that's literally what they were but the more up-to-date term would that we would call it would be ebt right so yeah or your food benefits i was born 40 minutes from louisiana my abuser abandoned me in colorado", "But yeah, food stamps, aka food benefits. EBT, yeah. Literal stamps, yeah! Literal Stamps that would mail you- the government would mail YOU. Like blood or paper, yeah... Ha ha ha ha put some acid on those stamps, Yeah I felt that So, yeah um so Um, some more conservative states", "conservative states have like Texas where Water Porch is um make you sign up to like go to a place where you like it's like a job center basically um where they try to make sure that like you were are working even though you're getting food stamps", "have that same requirement um if you are in need of food and you meet the minimum requirements whether or not you make money or not then you will be allotted some amount of food stamps or ebt money colorado rules best state in the union this show is it really is i do i really do love living here", "do love living here. I mean, I don't necessarily like the snow considering the fact that I broke my leg on ice earlier this year but you know, I do really love Colorado and my family's from here so I was like well why not move here? Because like I said", "i was like well might as well move home it's cheaper but it's i'm priced out of the market here to where i'm at which i feel like is every state even california doesn't matter where you are if you're in a metro like a metropolitan city or pretty much price on the market i mean you could go further south and like find something for super cheap and like peblo", "hours away from like denver for instance or like you're half an hour away from colorado springs which isn't bad you know at least colorado spring has is a bigger city very similar to denver so yeah okay that's valid but i love the snow yeah it's just dirt and wet heat here yeah didn't even need ac in aurora", "we don't have ac you know some older homes and apartments tend to not have them um but yeah i have a fan you see my head on my kamar or flopping in the wind or whatever it's because i got a fan on but i mean at least today it's been well i mean it kind of", "because i would be hot by now and being like i gotta take this garb off y'all i gotta it off it's just it's too hot y' all can hear my voice and imagine my face ew peblo yeah i lived in peblo for a little while yeah it's peblo hmm yeah it is peblo it's a shite town it really is", "it but like if you need an affordable place to live go the pueblo you know oh we did have a heater yeah like oh yeah yeah places have like have heat yeah in colorado we have heat but it's just the ac part you need water and a hug i wish i could give you my my hug here's my here's", "I'm sorry. Okay, let me hydrate too.", "yeah i go off cam when i need to valid yeah it's pretty much every day that i've streamed this week i've like started off and like yeah okay i'm fine i'm good and then like a couple hours later hour later i'm like okay y'all it's too hot for this", "I can't deal with it. Not today. But yeah, it's cool. I'm kind of getting a little shivery which is nice between the cool air and like the fan being on me and stuff so... I would love to still live there if I could. Oh yeah, over in Texas? Yeah. Any day. Any dagwell you know. If you can try. You know?", "know if not then that is what it is that's life you know i hear water running in the background lmao i have three femmes going here and we have ac oh man like if i had ac i it's a love hate relationship with ac i can't", "like doors open if i like have ac on because like i need the air to circulate otherwise i'll get too cold like my mom had ac in her house and like i would close the vent during the summer and just turn on my ceiling fan i'm like if you have a ceiling fan then that's sometimes all you need you know and i was like i don't i don' t like it but you could definitely tell", "Because I'd be like, oh God it's a nice box in here. And go in my room and I'm like, ah it's kind of warm. It's nice and cool. It doesn't need to wear a jacket out in the house. You know? Oh I promise I will be up there when I get regular income. Well when you do come see me.", "can't get comfy what am I reading that right wait malaria what am i am i Thai am I getting this wrong there are 20 degree differences between my room in the hallway the temp difference is a malaria joke alright because", "malaria is like actually literally spotting, like sprouting up in Florida. Right? Right now, Florida, Florida has it and I think there's like two in Texas so you better like watch out there. Ain't nobody got time for that. Stole it from Louis Black. I don't even know who that is.", "that is do not go outside i'm not insane okay good yeah don't don't go outside boo don't do it we have a home unit but it's the original homes ac which is over 30 years old it has a heater built in with gas and we have", "with the box man yeah you know like everyone's got a way of doing things in their house and like different areas of the world or you know these uh these here united states of america a lefty libby comedian famous for The Daily Show with Jon Stewart ah okay okay", "My room is normally 20 degrees hotter than the rest of the house. Dang. You know, box fan felt useless in Colorado. I got the big $50 fan with a remote and that thing kicked. I'm not actually joking. Oh, I know you're not. We don't. We know you don't", "tornado fans are pretty good. You know? So I'm just like, you know... I had another one for this room particularly but... I got left outside in the snow by accident so that sucked.", "But it is what it is. Why does the universe want us to boil? The universe wants us to Boil because it's our fault. It's our Fault! Or more specifically, it's Our parents and grandparents and then our great-great-grandparents fault", "For all of the shit that we got in the world. So, you know? Maybe if we held corporations to task... I don't know. Instead of making us consumers feel bad about this shit when it's not our fault. We'd probably have a better world. That wasn't so hot.", "Hey, we may still have a... Well, we'll actually really have icebergs in the Atlantic again here pretty soon. Let's be real. That's if they don't melt. You know? So. But hey, listen, global warming can't be real because I'm cold right now, right? You know,", "You know, that's how they get you in the brain right? My dad and his brother like using old school Harris craze as flamethrower. Oh shit goddamn Yeah, like Okay think about this coca-cola way back when right", "their bottles. You would return the bottles, they would collect them and rewash them and reuse them into new Coke bottles. What if Coca-Cola started doing that again? Wonder what would happen to all the plastics? Just a thought. Cocaine Cola? Yeah.", "Yeah, that shit. That shit. You know? Just that thought. It just gives me hope.", "Those ads are starting for you right now too bad. You're not subscribed I'll see you on the other side in three minutes by E It just went oh they just went south over since they ditched their booger sugar Dankies", "hug it hug it as tight as you need to rose and hashtag ads you know you could save yourself if you you know gave your prime subscription to a big streamer and paid out of pocket to a little streamer that's usually what i do", "monthly benefit to uh oh shit well fuck me ah goddamn moth and there's my cat jumping up shit i want to save myself and streamer for real", "Is she swears like she's gonna get this like this moth I Really want to kill it Do you find it where is it Rosie", "Where is it, Rosie? Throw some off.", "You know it's not over there, right? She doesn't know how to get down. Hold on, let me go get my cat down.", "I'm going to make a little bit of a mess.", "I'm going to make a tree with the same material as the first one.", "I'm trying to kill the goddamn moth. Hold on, y'all.", "Rosie's helping me too. Terribly, terribly though.", "Do y'all understand how hard it is to kill a mom?", "kill a moth with streamer lights like my goodness gracious I cannot get this now to save my life I can't I can and Rossi's trying to do it this month is too goddamn smart for us", "I just need it to stop. I just needed to stop like, just land. It just needs to fucking land. There's no way I can do that so you know.", "The moth has won this round. It has won", "I will not let that stand. Oh, I found it. But there's no way I'm getting that. And Rosie completely missed it. Oh wait, no she sees it. Yeah, I'm not doing that. Please don't do that by the way Rose. Seriously.", "And don't even joke about that. If I had a door to open, I would let it out, sadly. But... Rose is pretty good at getting all the bugs and like I'm really thankful for that because she's really, really,", "Whatchamacallit, like spiders and stuff for me? And I'm like... I'll find a bunch of dead legs over. And I was like... This wasn't in here earlier. And then I look over. Hmmmm. Well it can only be Rosie. She destroyed the spider. Okay good Rose. I'm-I'm good. Sorry y'all are seeing all my shit.", "That's why I have a green screen, but yeah. I should just do this. Close the door. There. That takes care of the problem. You know, it's like you will see a bunch of shit on your light floor and you're like,", "and walk slowly away I am not dealing with this shit today you know? oh okay Rose", "I'm fucking hot again. After trying to chase this goddamn moth around, and just... I'm over it. It's one of those summers. But like three years ago? Four or five years ago maybe? Somewhere in between there. Uh, I was living down in Pueblo, and we had the great migration of all of the... The... Um...", "like uh moths and they were like everywhere in the house like everywhere and i was just like you couldn't like open a window you couldn' close the door you couldn without moths entering exiting finding spaces hovering around your lights", "I hated it. I don't like bugs. I do not like bugs Bugs need to be killed unless they're bees Bees should live, bees are our friends We need you bees But... I'm like, I don'y like bugs, bugs are no fun They're no fun at all So Excuse me", "Excuse me. What time is it? Well, I got to do tomorrow nothing today's Saturday stream later on inshallah like that's I guess that's what I got going on. Like well, I was like trying to think with do I want to take my sleep gummies", "It's not like I will, uh... I mean it does help me get sleepy but it doesn't get me as sleepy as smoking weed does. But you know? How about we just get into some fork knife since you know that's what I do. I play the fork knife.", "The fork knife is your friend. Hold up, I should probably smoke some more weed after chasing that frustratingly stupid smart moth. The moth got me this time.", "But as soon as I go in the other room, if it wants to follow me then it's gonna have another problem coming to it. It's like what was I trying to look for? New outfit weekly quests Oh this colored coconut! I love these little coconuts for summer they're just so cute", "Which is so cute. Bugs life matter. No ALM, no. I guess I gotta do all of these. Oh, I guess these are the last of the things I have to do for that. To get the rewards. I just have so much shit to do. I mean, that's not a bad thing.", "It's not a bad thing at all. It just gets annoying sometimes.", "Star Wars event for... in May. For like literally all of May. Why is this shit already back in the store? Zero sense to me. Twin Echo bundle. Nothing special. Oh, that's that vision board I see everyone with.", "I mean, it's kinda cool but... Yeah if someone wants to gift me that from the store then I'll use it. Who is this person? Little Diplodocus", "Okay, I mean this is kinda cute but you know. Chaos loves me but I can hear you now well that's good welcome back! You missed all the good stuff Water Porch. You've missed it all.", "Yeah, I thought about doing the hula one. No, did I miss you being muted? I mean, you missed... The great... Uh...", "Moth battle, I guess. I don't know maybe you're still here for that.", "she'll, she's just not like, she is too soft with the moth to kill it. That's a thing. She just like puts it like she just crabs it like put her paw over it but she doesn't put enough force to like kill it or anything. Not like the spiders, the spider she's like mmm I'm gonna sniff it and eat it. Yeah that was the fly swatter.", "ice water. Yeah, so the moth scored one queen zero it definitely got the best of me and it did not come to disappoint what if it like flew down on my head while I was streaming that would be like so crazy", "Bugs life natter. I mean, I'd be down to do a live critique of A bug's life Late one night we can all like watch a bugs life Disney movie", "and we can critique it from the working socialist leftist perspective that's a remake of my favorite film A Bug's Life? It's a Disney movie! How is that a remake?", "Seven Samurai? Adaptation. It's the adaptation of Seven Samurais. Give me a synopsis of Seven samurai while I smoke this bowl.", "She's back up there again. She got down easily. I didn't think she was going to get down because last time she got up there, she was like, meow, meow. I don't know how to get out of there. So I'm like, great. Don't jump up there maybe. Magnificent Seven.", "Seven. Bug's life equals seven samurai. Okay. Stoned is the way to be. Bandits come to town and threaten village for food and say they will come back after harvest to take the food from starving village that hires seven samurai to defend them. Huh. How old's the movie? Wait, or is there a movie adaptation?", "adaptation of this like story it's like better yet what I should ask she jumped all right", "The 50s? I'd be super down to watch that. Is it on YouTube?", "those westerns in the 70's off the Kurosaka or the Kyuusawa samurai films I'd be down to watch them on stream that would be super fun oh can you like send me a link perhaps?", "Or, or do me one better. Put it in discord. Cause then that way I won't lose it. Cause I'll know it'll be there. Put It in ideas and feedback are actually yeah. Ideas tell me where to react.", "react instead yeah if you could put it in the tell me where to react i'm you know which is technically my tell me Where To Go Tell Me Where To go Tell Me where to go tell me okay the e40 me is coming out", "It's cool. But yeah, if you can put it in Discord. What's this film technically about? Does this have a leftist sway in it too?", "it too because I would like to critique some leftist shit", "Excuse me, y'all. Actually my fave of his is The Bad Sleep Well and that was about corrupt corporate post-war Japan as told like a ghost story. Interesting. Sounds cool. Let me just pop over to Paganox's", "Paganox's chat real quick and see if she wants to play Fortnite with me Or at least a couple because she She's gotta walk the dog soon. Oh wait, maybe not so soon I'm like it's the weekend so she's probably letting the dogs sleep in", "necessarily the dog but it's a long story", "I should just like pop over in her discord. Just be like, hello!", "That's fine, take your time Water Porch. Also... Let me... Drop you a follow. I really- This has been a really great update from Twitch, I ain't gonna lie.", "gotta check on my cat you know she gets she's mischievous like tell me why she got into like the um i gotta keep like her", "Alright, so guess it means I'll be playing by myself. That's fine She's just licking herself she's just so content. I'm cool with that. I am too scared that she is going to like", "to like hop up on the screen and push too hard, then she'll fall out.", "Personally I really like this house.", "Oh, except when it doesn't have money in it I don't like it. When it doesn' t have the things that I like, I don' t like the house.", "Oh, I don't want that gun. I don' t want that ice cream", "I already have that. Survival of the fittest!", "Turn off the lights, yeah. Definitely gonna be pretty cool in here.", "That sounds like a very intense movie.", "All you got was this stupid small shield motherfucker. I mean to the next person", "to the next person that comes along and finds them. I really don't want all these guns, they all suck. Let me see it's back down a little...", "Okay, maybe I'm held in. Hold on let me uh...", "I need to take some pills because my allergies are so bad they don't really get to me. Here I be.", "Didn't realize I was reading that and y'all couldn't hear me then no, that was great There's a cowboy take to it with Clint Eastwood", "Fuck, stupid wolves. Did I tame one? Oh...I didn't mean to. But yeah.", "But yeah, you'll fight it out for me. Looks like my wolf is dying. I mean... You know?", "I have a problem with it. Well, there's no way you can get in here. So do I. I am not opening any doors for you.", "I can't tell if you're talking to me. Yes, I am talking to you. Didn't you say that you end up muted all the time? Or am I confusing chatters? Okay wolf", "Why can they like start to Just a little confused Oh my god", "I am not getting eaten by the wildlife", "Yeah, I was referring back to you saying earlier that like when I was reading Classic Debate Queen That like uh, you know that I... I uh... Forget that I'm muted sometimes and because like I read the synopsis of it", "I totally realized that like, I wasn't being heard. You know?", "happy 420 to my CST folks there we go", "Kurosawa is just cool because he directed a decent of samurai cast... Am I right? I'm not right. A decedent of samurai casts and all cowboy movies came from him in other samurai films so basically white people stole", "when he has original thought. Cool. One else is new there. I'm kidding, not kidding. That just proves to you Hollywood has no original ideas. Never have, never will.", "Oh shit, I see a third. Oh shit! Okay, okay hold up. Fuck. Okay, Jesus. I didn't mean to do that. I just realized what I need to do to do a third, okay?", "I'm gonna die doing this, I know. Just to achieve this one mission that I just realized what I need to do. Fuck! Come on, come on, c'mon. How am I supposed to do this? You're supposed to jump on three pads in a row and so I'm trying to figure out how I can do that", "and not touch the ground but oh well okay we'll just go up to hitches and ditches what what come on i'm gonna die i'm going to die which I'm okay with", "We stole everything from the east but they stole it. Really? I just, yeah. Okay. They stole it back and it's been awesome. Takashi Mike and grown Quentin Tarantino have made some great Hydra and Homage films", "as a result of modern times qt would kill bill and he was in my uh to suck yeah oh god i'm so terrible in mike's western dang dangle and change okay let's let's blitz i know what the movie is", "Words. Words! I don't understand words.", "Suuukiaki Western Django. You nailed it, Takashi. Yeah, Takashis good! I mean no, I think that's a common name and no thanks to takashi69 just kidding yeah", "Take a shit I mean, I don't know You know Words Words friends words", "Words are words. True, true. Words can never harm you. Words never harm You! Just kidding It's all in the tone in which you say it", "I was an English major so I get wordy and yeah, I was a comms major so... I get communicated. Sweet! And everyone like gives comms majors such shit times that this is the easiest thing to do", "I did film for a semester. I'm mostly lazy musician? What does it mean that lazy musician...", "I have something legendary to pull up for us.", "Oops. That's why I don't put my controller there! I listen to far more music than I make, though. Well that's cool. And it was fun...", "What kind of music do you make? Is there nothing over here?", "I like making stuff and doing stuff but this isn't- What kind of music do you make? What genre or do you dabble in a little bit everything? Do you play instruments, do you use... uh computers", "Where are they? I mean, there that sounds really close. Oh, here we are! Alright! Chud for grain...", "No shit, someone else is here. Okay", "Oh shitballs, I'm gonna hurt myself.", "Water porch makes country punk with traditional rock instruments. The bad sleep well in my synth project, the pitch lung is my stoner rock tune metal. Beneath the blackened earth is my melamous drone doom instrument. My YouTube has all my corny stuff but the water porch stuff is my favorite cause it's singer-songwriter.", "Oh yeah, this is what's getting me so self-promoting. You know there's a whole entire section in my discord where you can promote yourself when you don't have to I don't know take away the experience of the stream...I'm kidding! I'm kidding", "What do you mean after what I said? Did I like... What? I'm confused.", "There we go, thermal DMR. Gimme gimme. Oh now I have to spend money.", "Okay Counting the hours till 6 when I get that text from Weed Man One more hour", "If I can get out of the doors properly Nothing up there boring What's some music I enjoy I Enjoy a little bit of everything that's not country everything like", "I have a pretty eclectic style Mostly because you know, you grow up listening to what your parents listen to so I listened to a lot of that too A lot of oldies and stuff from the 70s 80s 60s 90s", "60's, 90's shit I mean... If you say so, I'd be willing to listen to it though Oh really? And then you fall down like a dumbass", "It's not what you think it's reminiscent of Outlaw Country which seems to be more based and not radio trash. It's too punky and emo to be full country, it's easy on the ears like would you say Johnny Cash?", "I'm not a Johnny Cash fan. Personally. He was never my style.", "To add distortion and kick it up to 180 beats per minute Yeah, any country is an acquired taste CCR I don't know what that is CCR pose or country. I have no idea what that", "Credence, Claire Weiler revival. Oh fab Yes I've seen Forrest go", "The boys sang about the bayou there from Cali. I don't remember, it's been a long time since I've seen that movie.", "Oh shit! Island's already spawned already? Guess we do have 26 players left.", "I'm pretty sure I've probably heard it, like if I put it on I'd be like oh yeah I know that song. But just didn't know what the name was or perhaps even genre. Woody Guthrie and Bob Dylan are country as fuck? Yeah I'm not a Bob Dylan fan.", "You over shot me. You over fucking shot! Dumbass", "Saj, I can't take all the money. Really really really sad Oh come on Fuck this shit", "Okay, I'm gonna totally... Just keep rerolling until I get stuff I like. Until I got some money here.", "And hey look I even completed a quest. You'll just start playing air guitar sometime.", "Full country, full country. Poetry and pose. Walk through his mill nose okay? Yeah thanks- oh wait but... I also still wanted whatever was on her tail. Oh shit. I should probably go this way?", "And CCR Howl's, okay. Someone already claimed Ireland? Uh no?", "Still trying to complete where you can jump three times and not. Oh, sweet leveled up awesome Apparently they suck so bad", "This sucks so bad. Oh shit, this is wrong way to open the side. No! Right side! Yayyyy! I finally did it! I always open it on the wrong side. Do I want any of this?", "I mean, I guess I could have claimed but...", "but oh shit um guess i'm back where I started", "Here, let me help you. Oh come on... I'm trying to help you!", "Oh fuck, someone stole my kill. Oh come on...", "What'd you think? You're gonna like come and sneak up on me? Come on. Come on! Don't be so dumb. Where did you go?", "Oh, ground? Let me go steal that ground. Inshallah, here we go. That person sucked. Oh shit well there goes that.", "I'm not sure if this is the right way to do it.", "Shit, I should've used a different gun Twitch hates when I sing CCR Don't think I'm all country though I used to super hate it I move on till the clock I prefer email and post hardcore everything Green Day is one of my favorite bands", "favorite bands? Yeah, okay. I was hella emo back in my day so I know some of these names like Green Day and New Found Glory and MCR and AFI and Offspring, Sun41 Blink 182. I've seen them live they're super awesome. Paramore and those type. Fall Out Boy", "used in that too. The goat Fall Out Boy. Yeah, I used to have all their albums way back when and then I just stopped listening to Fall Out boy. I stopped being so emo. I don't know. Going to web tour status.", "Yeah, they just came out with a new album I listened to a couple weeks ago on stream. It wasn't bad. But their classic is... you know, their first couple albums will always- MCR's first couple of albums will take away the feels, y'know?", "Yeah, I haven't listened to Fall Out Boy's music since... what's that? Infinite... Infinite something and all I remember is the sheep on their cover of that album.", "Like, yeah. Just like the little fluffy sheep thingy. And spinning it on high. Yes there we go. I was like, I know! Start with an eye...", "Yeah, that's a really good album. Who the fuck is hacking away at everything that probably is not on player?", "I'm so confused what that sound is coming from. Oh shit", "Yeah, basically it was. I should have just used the flare gun on this guy. The greatest of us- oh god that's my own yell.", "bands do you do challenge you like every time they die or under out and into hardcore post-hardcore metalcore i almost didn't like music that isn't tough um no not really", "That like I can sing to it then I'm like cool. It's my song. Oh fuck me", "So they use a different vocal cords, yeah. No I mean genuinely like anything that has words or like a beat to it that I can like there's words that make sense I guess not screaming then yeah I guess", "I hope that wolf kills you. Damn it!", "I mean, if it's a good song and it makes sense? Sure.", "Use vehicles to get around the map more quickly. You don't say, Fortnite. You DON'T say.", "Every time I die, it has the best lyrics. So maybe they're not even gonna listen to it. You know? It's been a long time. I don't know if I like... I'm sure I've probably heard their music but like I don' t necessarily remember them per se", "They're dead now? Oh shit, well... That's a twist. Do you only come from until you return? Meaning I'll want to eat you. No motherfuckers.", "How quickly will Queen die? Let's figure it out. How quickly she die? Will she be pronounced the first to go on Fortnite?", "As you can probably tell We're really in here I know all the loot is and where all the looted is is where all people are", "So pitchy there all of a sudden. Died in an embarrassing breakup, what?", "I'm just gonna say the joke's on you, motherfucker.", "The band's excited to do raffles all the loot and say silly things like, the band died when they actually... it was just horrible. And we all cried. The people didn't die. The band did! I'm done. I'm DONE.", "I'm going to make a cake with the remaining cream.", "I had to go pimp a popple. Pimp... Pimp a Popple! Oh god, you all know what I mean. Fuck. I'm like Dr. Pimple Popper. I like to pop pimples and it was big and... I can't let that stand.", "Actually, like it's really relaxing to actually watch that stuff. These nice ladies make Mexican breakfast every morning. Oh shit what the fuck did I do? Did I fuck shit up? Oh my god I did.", "It's a... Cray-cub. I love eggs, nice! Oh fuck me well I'm also gonna die in this round too because I'm just having shit round after round after around", "Where'd they go? There we go. Well, when you don't got a weapon...", "Okay, guess I should probably use these rats. Let me go back up here. Cause yep there should be something up there. They were stupid they didn't realize that was up there!", "I could have had a gun and I could've had a good but they could have killed me a lot sooner. Okay, I'm good.", "Um, this is the main map. Yeah it's a little too hectic for me playing creator maps", "I'll come down to you if i'm worried", "Okay. No, build mode has all the freaks. Like, nah. I'll pass. Although I do play um... Build Mode Solo Ranked because Zero Build doesn't have a solo rank.", "So low ranked. So I'm like, well... I guess I'm forced to when all of these suck!", "I'm not a buddy that I play with either. Oh god. I just, like, I suck and I know I suck. I'm no qualms about it. I like to have fun! I don't really care if I'm losing or winning. You know? As long as I'm having fun then I'm fine. Sometimes my teammates carry me and you know, I'm cool with that but", "When I play by myself, I pretty much hold my own obviously. I don't know why I didn't go just stay over there to get these. And get these shields it just makes more sense.", "Come on. There we go. I win a lot in Build, I'm actually terrible at bidding games despite playing for 34 years of 39. Yes, Queen on Fortnite don't suck so I love it. I have really zero patience for Apex and they'll play Valo or PC shooters.", "I don't know if like could get my audio shit on my Mac side of my computer right but nope", "See a dinosaur okay cool Good night Rose", "I hope that, you know... You can sleep alright. And we're here for you.", "Yes, a warm healing energy. Inshallah", "Oh lord. No! Not to- Naruto, Naruto! Oh god. Okay yeah okay I'm just putting my like sleeves down for just a quick second and you just got it", "You just got it. Come and see me. Why? Why?", "Well at least I'm that close to leveling up again.", "and I fucking love that in all its forms, and I'm here for them. I'm hear for all of it. I know everyone's got their own feelings about it but you know... You're so nice! You read everything and I never shut up. That's fine.", "No, that's like oh wait. I have a minute to like emo", "My high school art teacher always said fill the canvas so I do with an incessant talking. You know, listen, so like growing up my grandma would be like, Do you ever shut up? And I'd be like no and then my family would be Like... You know if you ever got kidnapped they was like returning because you would talk for your ear off and be like well cool", "So I know I'm a talker. Always have been, but you know... When your family forced you to talk, it gets odd. Yay! Level up! Oh shit, don't wanna go overboard.", "The traffic is sending your ass back. That's right, that's right So luckily I never got kidnapped, so hum de lasso it was never an issue", "I just kind of want to find out if there are people here or not.", "No one's here? But everyone kinda knows when I'm here.", "You're welcome to chat about whatever you like and whosoever in my chats who likes to chat with you Respectfully of course, cuz you know I don't pull up bullshit in my chat", "No, I don't want to be outside. No no close close I would know what hit him. I would annoy Annie alongside the best", "Okay, where do I want to go? Okay well, that takes care of that one. Did I loot up everything? No, I only looted 1 building all the way up. I'll loot this one too. Oh my... Yes! I will get everything!", "Oh, but you have to mount within 30 seconds of opening a door. Does this account is mounting? Yes! Okay, cool. Competed. I don't give a fuck in my comments. Get ignored on the", "Norim, I just try to stimulate discussion for content. Ain't nothing wrong with that one.", "Faktum er at vi har en kvarter i fjellet.", "Oh come on I wanna live in Fortnite, fuck Texas, Fortnite got less guns True. Oh shit am i going the wrong way? I always go the wrong", "game always I think I'm following the map and then I'm not following that so let's just cut out the middleman skydive to the next circle of course someone trying to shoot me down from there", "Because y'all just can't leave. Oh, wonderful. So I'm just left to keep? Cool. Okay, I need to heal myself real quick before whoever comes to kill me tries to come to finish me off. Okay.", "I just love it when they try to shoot you down and there's no time for ya. So much money! Oh, maybe not. I should scope too soon.", "Yep, killed the... Solved your problem for you of uh The wolf coming to eat you", "Giant balls you orb around in? Why is that behind me? Um, behind me...? Yeah, cause you like initially sucked.", "I'll just ride the loop or something and probably kill her with silence of the land, you know? That's some rough shank.", "Shankar, what? I'm so confused.", "Cool! I'll actually take this one. And you were doing terribly with this shotgun. Terribly. No, no, no that's not what I wanted to do. Take this legendary ice cream cone.", "Okay. Now that's gonna be the next... Island drilling. Did you, like, have to land on it? I'm gonna move a car just to get to the chest.", "Like if you just hop in for a night cruise around let the music play with your hair leave the shooting to the ones I need so like The perch basically, I'm just kidding", "You know that was actually like some of the missions was like just to drive around so like I can just drive around. I'm just driving around until like I got the mission completed and I was like well... I'm not really gonna kill anybody today, I'm jus gonna drive around till I complete this mission", "Yeah, there's no way I was gonna Get them", "I mean, they'll take that. I don't think there's any obvious ignorance.", "Those movies are way better than they should be. Oh yeah, I love me some of the purge even the show was good I Was like really dig at that show And like I would just like to see all the purgative", "Okay, gotta go. I gotta go! I get it, the storm is about to come.", "I just want Fortnite to create like a map where you just loot. That's it, you just loo.", "as many chests as you can count. Because honestly, this is the most gratifying thing to me in this game, is just opening these chests. I don't know why but I really enjoy opening all of them.", "I mean the money does help, but not gonna lie. I don't wanna go out there quite yet.", "You don't see some of those scrubs on Plymouth Scrub. I have a whole bus line in Gran Turismo now. There was a show... Yes, there was a Show On U from USA. I think it's on the Peacock app now? From NBC? I need to see the last two days' films. Election Day was good!", "And then like the original one I think I'm missing like one and I haven't seen it. I think that's it If I had Hassan money, I would buy one of those racing subs and go for him That's what's called Diablo Diablo guy got his medieval ones and he still kind of cares I don't know That sucks Okay", "Okay. That's time for me to go out. Is it just me or did I die not? I don't know.", "There's only three of us. Three people left, technically. Not including myself. Well, here we go.", "Yo, you suck. Aim better. Aim...better.", "I really need to be more on top. Oh, someone's here.", "I'm probably not even gonna see", "I'm not even gonna go see either movie. TBH, I'll pass on both of them. I'll wait for them to come to HBO or whatever.", "I may actually go to that, but I'll meet some winner who smokes weed. Ay yo! That's part of the reason why you go right?", "with their big ol' hair and like everything. Oh, that sucks. And it's not even hyperbole I get it. Yeah if it helps your anxiety you know? You do what you gotta do. Whew! I'm getting tired.", "Where to go? Where to goo? Like, where have I been? Have I been out too long? Slap your shoulders.", "You've helped me stay up. So grateful. Thank you for the entertainment. No weed is brutal for me. Yeah, no problem friend.", "Why does everyone want to shoot me out the sky?", "They suck so bad. You did! Thank you, Water Porch. I appreciate you.", "I see ya. I was waiting for you to come to me.", "Did you come this way? Why am I making you work for it? Easy clap. Okay, now I can focus on getting my shields up", "Faktum er at vi har en kvarter som kan ta oss ut.", "I'm gonna see if there's more loot. I think there is. But no money? Come on!", "Was that just me? Hold on, why are you two opening the door? Was there someone still back in here? I could've sworn I heard.", "Hmm, okay. Well... Alright! If there's someone in there I'll let them come to me then.", "I didn't even get a chance. Okay. Alright, y'all. I'm gonna call it here. Where should I send y'al?", "send y'all question of the day thank you water porch i appreciate it 50 50 if i'll be on uh again tomorrow um but yeah because sometimes i like having", "Saturdays and Sundays off. Sometimes I like to be on Saturdays, sometimes I prefer to be out on Sunday. It just it depends on how I feel so just make sure if you aren't a part of the discord to um check out Discord because i usually try to like say what's up in the announcements", "Letting you know when I'm going live. And such. That would be cool. Sweet. Sweet yeah so if you haven't already drop me a follow. And yeah, I guess I will see y'all again soon. Thank you so much for joining me on my stream.", "I hope that you learned something. That you didn't know before. About Islam and feminism. Which I'll try to do some more of. More stuff on. Which will be cool. Let me see what this person is doing real quick.", "You learned good? That's good. I'm glad that you did. Um, I don't know if anyone has any good suggestions or not. Let me see what this person is doing.", "I've rated to that person this week. How would y'all like to go international? Yeah, let's go international. Have a good sleep and day you as well water porch. Thank you. Thank", "you all out to cook um they're still in france oh but yeah which i may or may not go to uh twitchcon u us we'll see we'll say inshallah all right everybody thank you for joining me", "you all of you greatly, greatly, please be safe. Have a good day or good night wherever you are. Bye everybody." ]
amina_wadud/Falsafah Feminisme menurut Pandangan Amina Wadud_GvRJkJf580I&pp=ygURQW1pbmEgV2FkdWQgaXNsYW0%3D_1742922915.opus	[ "أسمها في عام 1972 وهي أرمالة والهاخرة أبناء درتت في جامعة بنسلفانية في ترفق وبعد ذلك استمر دراستها في الجامع الشخصي في مجال دراسات الشرك الغريبة ثم تم راستها بالمدى الدراس الإسلامية واللغة العربية", "العديد من اللغات الأجنبية مثل الإنجليزية والعربية والتركية والإسبانية والفرنسية والألمانية محاولة القرآن والمرهى هو أول بارحة مشهورة التي كتبها والعديد المحاوى الاكادمية التي كتمها", "وصفية الحكمة يختلف التعريف الفسفى استلاح إن الفلسفة قال الفارابي أن الفسط فهي علم بالموجودات بما هي موجودة وأما عند الكد الفسث فهو علم أشياء بحقائها قليلة مفهوم حركات نسائية النسائيين", "مجموعة من النظرات الاجتماعية والحركات السياسية والفصيبات الأخلاقية عن حرية المرأة في العمل بعبارة بسيطة أن سبيل الإيمان المصور للإجتمااعية والسياسي والاقتصاد بين الجنسين", "منهج تفكير أمينة ودود في دار المرأة أن ترى أمنا الودي يزهر دار مرأتي أقل من راجلي في الإسلام ومما يدل على ضعف المرآة ولذلك تعتقد أن عدم المساواة بين الجسمين في المجتمع الإسلمي لأن توثير القرآن يتم من خلال ثقافة أبويّة يعني ثقفة لا تُسامح والاهتخاد إلى المرءة", "فيجب أن تفسر الآية القرآن التي تحتوي على النساء فصرة من خبر للنساء لأنهم مزيد من الخبرات ثانياً تفسير القرأن من منهج تفكير الأمينة ودود", "Tustadimu amanah wadud usluban syumulian-dakhilian, yakni ya'huzur. Fil a'tibar jami'al asali tawseerul kamasali hayati walistima'iya wasyafsia wa sarafatil wal ahlak wa ddin wal mar'aq. Kana tufassirul ayatil Quran bikulli kalimatin wa laisa kulla ayah.", "وجل السلوك في إله مرأة وبذلك أن يكون ضده مع المساواة الأنظمة", "أي بعد عزب الله من الشيطان الرجيم يسيركم الله في أولادكم للذكر باسم الأنسين هذه الآية تدل على حكم المراس التي التي المراسم تقصيد اثنين كسمة للرجل وواحدة للنساء ولكن عند أن نودر عند تفسيره كسمتان للرجلي وواحدي للنسب ليست طريقة واحدة", "تقسيم النراف عندها يمكن أن تغير الأوائل إلى أهل من الرجل وواعر من النساء هذه الأراء يرفض بثلاثة أسباب أولاً يجب أن تتحقق المرأة دائماً احتياجاتها ومتطلباتها ثانياً ليس مطلوباً من النزاع يعطي لكمية العيش بينما يعطى الرجال كلمة عائلة", "الرجال ملزمون بدفع المهر إلى زوجة وأولاد اتيادي الأسرة", "كثيرا ونساء وفق الأميتوال فإنما يحتاج إلى إعادة الانتقاب عند الفقر المفسرون لفسرنا كلمة النفس واحدة وأنت زوج في الحقيقة ليس هناك وضوء معنى كلمات النفس في القرآن هل هي آدم أو هواء ولكن العلماء اعتبدوا على عدة أحاديث تشاهد خلق آدم من خل قهوائي من ضغط" ]
amina_wadud/Feminism in the Abrahamic Religions- Amina Wadud_ _BJe7e4yYBc0&pp=ygURQW1pbmEgV2FkdWQgaXNsYW0%3D_1742918731.opus	[ "As I always begin, in the name of Allah whose grace I seek in this and all other matters. Islamic feminist exegesis of the Quran was a precursor to the rise of Islamic feminism as methodology and movement. When i published my PhD dissertation under the name Quran and Woman", "and women in 1992, there was no such thing as Islamic feminism. Instead one had to choose between feminisms that were overwhelmingly hostile to religion especially Islam and the dominant interpretation of Islam that was overwhelmingly patriarchal. Therefore the most common mantra was you cannot have feminism and Islam. There are some who think this is still the case however a vibrant", "an intersectional movement has taken place to challenge the dominant rubrics of both feminism and Islam as they entered the new millennium. The publication of Quran in Women, additionally with an Oxford University Press subsidiary in Malaysia did not lead to a revolution. However, as it was being edited for publication I entered a new phase of my life trajectory which would impact my interpretive work", "founding members to a grassroots women's organization called Sisters in Islam, CIS. I would enter feminist activism for social justice from within a faith perspective. This activism changed my approach to textual hermeneutics. As a PhD student it was easy to locate my individual self as a Muslim woman within my exegesis but i had no concept of how related to Muslim women's lived realities", "realities in the context of law, policy and culture. For one thing there is no personal status law in the U.S., there are ad hoc legal postulates in certain Muslim communities which are overwhelmingly patriarchal however these are not the law of the land and thus lack state enforcement working with CIS for that first three years I saw the important nexus between theory", "of context over text. The context of lived realities for Muslim women, especially those when those are our realities are used in codification of public policy would soon come to eclipse the texts whenever it was used to enforce patriarchal hegemony. In this presentation I will discuss the importance of live realities to the hermeneutics of the Quran. This led to new knowledge production", "knowledge production and an expansion of authority beyond the dominant male model of control that had gone on for nearly 14 centuries. In turn, this led me to Islamic feminism as the Islamic feminist movement began to unfold my approach to hermeneutics would be transformed while Islamic feminism could be said to be part of Islamic reform in the new millennium it has taken a more comprehensive", "and truly global step, more so than any other aspect of Islamic reform. Indeed, any aspect of reform that does not engage the gender dynamic is already outdated and incomplete. The journey towards Islamic feminist knowledge production creates a coherent methodology of using gender as a category of interrogation for all Islamic primary sources and for their application in the law and culture.", "It dismantled more than 1,000 years of patriarchal control over textual exegesis and Muslim lives. While Islamic feminism centers on the live realities of Muslim women it is not just about women. It is about moving the understanding of gender from hegemony and control to equality and reciprocity. My first book, Quran in Women, is deeply intuitive critically analytical", "analytical and explicitly gender inclusive. It enhanced the field of Quranic exegesis by confirming not only that Muslim women speak, but also by providing evidence that when we speak, we do so from our own realities. Furthermore, it gave evidence that men had been speaking from their own realities for centuries,", "differently from what men have said for over a millennium. Although Islamic feminist exegesis is more than just women, it included women's realities in Quranic analysis in such a way that it challenges the dominant and prolific model of centering analysis of sacred texts and religious practice around men and men's experiences as if universal. By centering women's voices", "texts were understood and adjudicated, the whole rubric of patriarchal hegemony was upset. Islamic feminism takes into consideration the epistemology of textual analysis by constructing gender as a category of thought. Classical Islamic intellectual traditions that operated within a well-entrenched patriarchal model took it for granted that men were the ideal agents", "matter of cosmology, theology, epistemology and praxis. Men were in charge and women were here to support men's movement towards the divine. To be sure Islamic classical thought expressed the general understanding promoted in the Quran and by the Prophet upon him that women are fully human simultaneously patriarchal interpretation subtracted from women's full humanity at almost every turn.", "Patriarchy is not the subject of my discussion here, but as the elephant in the room I will indicate how I understand it in order to show why it is not focus. To focus on patriarchy distracts from the tasks I have taken up over a lifetime and once again centers men's ways of knowing being and doing.", "to manifest its highest potential. Patriarchy is constructed around an inherent inequality of human relationships. It was encoded first by action and social structure, then justified by Hellenistic philosophy. Each person has a place in society. Some places are higher than other places. Some were even placed as slaves to serve others who are placed as masters. The presumption that a slave", "The assumption that a slave is equal to a master in any way was not only unfathomable, its absence was justification for the institution of slavery. Patriarchal is not just a gender construct however an application to gender and mandates hegemony based on privileging men over women In the Islamic cosmology of human design we all descend from a single soul", "self or being, nefs. Nefs is feminine grammatically but is used for the essence of the sentient being whether male female or non-binary it has been translated as soul or self although there are other words for soul in Arabic as well since the word nefs is also used in the Quran for the creator who is not a being at all it should not be seen", "story is told. All of humankind descends from a single soul, nefsin wahida. The Quran does not state that the human sojourning on the earth starts with a male person or even the nefs of a male", "assures us in the words of God, from all things we have created pairs. Thus male and female are equally essential to this ontological design. Every created thing participates in this binary at some level. Quranic cosmology does not include an original sin which was then assigned as fault", "cosmology uses the unique Arabic dual form and is therefore inclusive. The two ate of the fruit, the two disobeyed Allah, the to sinned. However, the only scriptural exegesis at the time of the revelation of the Quran came from Christian and Jewish thinkers who said Germanic encoding of the first human as male and the first sinner as female were applied to", "asymmetrical gendered reading was taken for granted by scholars and laypersons for centuries. The first time I received a letter threatening my death was after a public lecture in which I debunked the rib story, and it was written up in an article in one of the main newspapers. We have no rib story in the Quran. Still, the prevailing idea amongst Muslims is that a man was put to sleep and a woman was extracted from under his heart. Nevertheless,", "Quranic reading does not support this reduction. I mention this because it exemplifies how rereading the text from a gender perspective challenges certain entrenched ideas and leads to the production of new knowledge. The significance of knowledge production when related to a religious ethos that includes revealed texts cannot be overstated. Most members", "religious knowledge that descends from a sacred and unknowable source. Eventually, an elite class of interpreters were elevated to nearly a level of infallibility despite strict rules against such throughout all of Muslim intellectual history. The most vexing part of this elitism was that even when women's scholarship was integral, even mandatory part of the Islamic traditions,", "did not play a substantial role in setting the operating paradigms of Islamic thought. Eventually, women's subjective knowledge was deemed incongruent with truth or orthodoxy while men apparently had no subjectivity. With Islamic feminist reform all interpretations are returned to the status of mere human struggling", "not imagine how hard it is to disengage men's subjectivity from the copious and even erudite and eloquent constructions of Islamic thought. The moment women seek authority through knowledge production, they can suffer challenges to their full humanity by being classified as disbelievers, heretics, and even enemies to Islam. Notice how often Muslim women attach the word believer or practicing", "To engage in textual analysis from a male perspective is sacrosanct and scholarly. To engage and textual analyses from a female perspective is heretical, even evil. Male and female are not close categories. All that is masculine is not male and all that is feminine is not female. All of that is male is not masculine and all of that", "spectrum between two points in a binary abstract possibility. I identify as non-binary because I see how my feminine aspects operate in a constant dynamic relationship with my masculine aspects. Within the spectrum of possibilities, reality is neither exclusive nor absolute. All humans fall along this binary spectrum with both masculine and feminine attributes, aspects, and essences. Gender is a construct.", "a construct. During the foundational discourse of Islamic thought, men dominated discussion and encoded their own humanity as total or comparable for both women and men. Men became the measure of what it means to be human. To achieve excellence as human was often constructed as belonging exclusively to men yet even then not all men.", "color, race, religion, sexual expression were like all women also considered deficient in their humanity. According to Hellenistic philosophy this was good and just the differences between the male and female were presumed to operate within a necessary hegemony within differential treatment and analysis as natural and necessary if any two beings came together one must be better than the other therefore men were better", "were better. The logic of hegemony is patriarchy. I advocated a move beyond this flawed, hegemonic conception towards one of reciprocity and horizontal equality using the most fundamental principle of Islam monotheism, tawhid. And I'm going to elaborate on this a little bit below. It was through textual analysis from a gender perspective of Quranic or Islamic cosmology that", "of gender equality, starting with the human purpose or teleology. The Quran states, I will make on the earth an agent in a Khalifa means moral agent. This is how we know there is no original sin that caused a fall to Earth. Earth was always the goal and the place where human agents fulfill their purpose as agents on the Earth establishing justice is mandatory", "is mandatory. However, as Islamic feminist ethics has unpacked there were many ways in which agency was given completely to some men and only partially to women. Women's agency was best articulated as a completion of men's agency otherwise when we're often considered a primary deterrent to men's fulfilling their agency. And here I like to cite just quickly somewhere by some other Islamic feminist colleagues", "including Zahra Ayubi's book on gendered morality that engages a critical gender reading of philosophy in order to show once again, that the full moral being was presumed to be male. Another is the Sufi analysis by Saadi Ashaik and a book called Sufi narratives of intimacy where she cites a notable exception to the tendency to reinscribe male superiority in the person of Ibn al-Arabin", "Nevertheless, he was unique and he was also in some ways a bit rare and obscurantist. The existence of a few small voices did not change the formula that became tantamount to sacred mandates across time and place. Still today, the active inclusion of women's realities is undervalued in the estimation", "Akeesha Ali's work on the lack of referencing being made by male scholars of Islam to women, even if they're talking about the subject of gender. Thus, the measurement of one's humanity, ethics and agency are based upon an idealized location of men. Women can never measure up against this because they are their own measurement. Such a perception did not exist. Such analysis would take long before it would be promoted.", "As we left the 20th century, scholarship and activism have taken a radical paradigm shift. Women's agency, creativity, spirituality, and scholarship are part of the landscape despite pockets of opposition. In almost 50 years of Quranic analysis while I was never interested in becoming a man, I was nonetheless interested in equality. So my dissertation which is focused on the absence", "typing in the Quran makes a reading in such a way that it stands in juxtaposition to male and female scholars and activists who take certain Quranic statements that repeat the gender hegemony prevailing at the time of the Quran as the core of the over Quranic statement that participate in reciprocity at the highest level. The Quran is not only descriptive,", "In the Quranic epistemology and worldview, the rhetoric of othering is absent. So while I have addressed all of the hegemonic statements in my scholarship and activism, I have never taken them as standard. The bigger question remained, what measures need to be taken to establish this construction of gender equality? To answer this question, a wedding of Islamic theology with live realities of Muslim women was necessary.", "necessary. So let me just say a little bit about the theology before I talk about the live realities. Based on a reading of a recurrent theme within Islamic theology, metaphysics, spirituality and ethics, I noticed that there was a tendency to construct a notion", "And I found it problematic because in that model where there was a direct relationship between God and the male, there was not the direct relationship. Between God and female and yet that is fundamental. There's no intermediary between Allah and any person in accordance to Islamic strict theology. So I constructed my own model which is more of a triangle.", "it to any one position but this is just a graphic. It keeps God at the highest location, but it puts male and female on a horizontal line of reciprocity so in fact if you believe in the One God or in Tawhid then your personhood, your actions, and your theology should be based on only a relationship", "gender, I've made it an application to matters of sexuality, to religion, to race, to nationality etc. In other words using that fundamental principle in a way that each person has access to Allah means therefore that each persons fulfills what Martin Buber talked about in his i-thou formulas of ethical equality and reciprocity. So this new model tackled the pervasive patriarchal", "of patriarchal thinking with men on top, superior to or in charge of women and non-elite others. I call it the Tawhidic paradigm because it's built upon the indisputable and fundamental theological principle of Tawhi which means that Allah is one and unique but comes from the second form of the verb and therefore he's dynamic. Allah unites. So all who claim", "and surrender to Allah, which is another word for Islam must operate in such a way that the divine reality of one is expressed in all human-to-human relationships only with reciprocity and equality. Despite this Tawhidic theological framework there is pervasive logic of hegemony", "story of Iblis or Satan who refused to obey the command to bow to the first human by saying, I am better than he. So istikbar, the thinking of oneself as better than another is the foundation for all forms of inequality but also for oppression and the Quran is emphatic that Allah does not oppress.", "metaphor is absent in the rhetoric of hegemonic juxtaposition on the basis of the diverse characteristics of human to human diversity. In the Quran, the only qualification or preference is based on two things, faith and good deeds. The highest ethical term in the Quran is taqwa, and taqva is both the moral consciousness that results from awareness", "consequence and the ethical actions that result from compassion that this consciousness would lead to. And the Quran is explicit, the most noble of you in the sight of Allah is the one with the most taqwa. So while the Quran does not make note of characteristics of persons placed situational in elevation over others, these are descriptive passages. The Quran", "exegesis limits descriptive passages to particular paths while encoding prescriptive passages into their universal benefit across time. Rhetorical hegemony accounts for a manifest I-it social construct through satanic consciousness or logic. The last thing that I want to share is the understanding of live reality as a rubric", "This is based on the heaviest concentration of Islamic scholarship in the area of law or policy. I don't want to go into all the details, but the understanding of the divine way with the divine being sharia or fiqh is Jewish prudence this has been encoded in the law and feminist exegesis and feminist activism", "that this is the way in which certain patriarchal rubrics become encoded in state law, and then they are taken as if they are divine and therefore equivalent to Sharia. So distinguishing between fiqh, which is Jewish prudence or the human understanding, and sharia, which", "thing was understanding that with this heavy concentration on Islamic law, legal constructs and the application there has been a tendency to support the notion of women's you know subservient or subaltern relationship because they were not the main subjects. So one of the ways in which we have challenged this is to really ask the fundamental question", "question. Since there is a universal understanding that Islam is just and it's all about justice, can there be justice for Muslim women if they do not experience it? So women's subjectivity have to come to the forefront. In fact we live in a time where there's a critical mass at no time in history were there as much agency demonstrated by women on behalf of women even", "time of the prophet, the radical reforms that were made then were not ones made by the women themselves. There's more Quranic passages about the social justice of women than any other aspect of social justice but this was a gift to them. This was not as a result of their own advocacy but now we're in the midst of this advocacy and we will not be turned back.", "as a measurement for any calculations of justice has been one of the radical aspects of challenging patriarchal reading in such a way that the context has priority over the text. And this has led to a number of radical reform movements that allow us to accept our own authority with regard to our own experiences and to value those experiences", "value those experiences as indications of the necessity for reform. Thank you very much." ]
amina_wadud/Feminism in The Islamic World by Amina Wadud_WmysAWrBp-I&pp=ygURQW1pbmEgV2FkdWQgaXNsYW0%3D_1742926608.opus	[ "Bismillahirrahmanirrahim, Assalamualaikum warahmatullahi wabarakatuh", "dari penulisan Al-Quran dan wanita oleh Amina Wadud topik pertama untuk diskusi adalah menjelaskan tiga kategori pengertian wanita dalam Al-Kur'an Al-Mu'minah wadud memasang pengerti wanita di Al-quran menjadi tiga Kategori yang pertama tradisional, kedua reaktif, dan ketiga holistik", "Kategori pertama penelitian Al-Quran disebut tradisional. Tadisional, tefasir atau kerja eksegetik memberikan peneliti seluruh Al-Kuran, apakah dari periode modern dan klasik dengan objektif tertentu di dalam pikiran. Objektif tersebut bisa berarti legal, esoterik, gramatikal, retorik, atau historik. Meskipun objektifs itu mungkin menyebabkan perbedaan di tafasr.", "kebenaran dalam karya ini adalah metodologi atomis mereka mulai dengan ayat pertama bab pertama dan berlanjut kepada ayat kedua dari bab pertama satu ayat pada waktu sehingga akhir buku sedikit atau tidak usaha dibuat untuk mengenali tema dan membahas hubungan Al-Quran dengan dirinya", "Namun, Tafasir tradisional hanya ditulis oleh orang tua. Ini berarti pengalaman laki-laki dan wanita tersebut diperoleh atau dipengaruhi melalui visi orang tua perspektif, keinginan, atau kebutuhan wanita Kategori kedua penelitian Al-Quran yang mengenai masalah wanita", "terdiri secara khusus dari peneliti muda, reaksi kepada beberapa kelelahan untuk wanita sebagai orang-orang dan sebagai anggota masyarakat yang telah dikaitkan dengan teks. Dalam kategori ini, banyak wanita atau orang menentukan pesan Al-Quran atau lebih benar Islam. Mereka menggunakan status miskin wanita dalam masyarat muslim sebagai penjelasan", "reaksi mereka. Reaksinya juga gagal mencari perbedaan antara penerimaan dan teks. Objektif, cara, dan metode yang digunakan sering datang dari ideologi feminis dan rasional. Meskipun mereka sering terlibat dengan masalah valid, kekurangan analisis komprehensif Al-Quran", "kadang-kadang membuat mereka mendesak posisi wanita di tanah, sepenuhnya dalam Kong Rose dengan posisi Quran pada wanita. Interpretasi yang menggambarkan seluruh metode eksegesis Qur'an terhadap beberapa modem sosial, moral, ekonomi dan kepentingan politik termasuk masalah wanita merupakan kategori akhir.", "Kategori ini relatif baru dan tidak ada pertanyaan yang berbentuk tentang masalah pribadi dari wanita terhadap seluruh Al-Quran dan prinsip utamanya. Itu saja untuk saya, dan material berikut akan dijelaskan oleh partner saya Fauziazari. Topik kedua adalah menerangkan metodologi model hermenetika untuk menggambarkan Al-Kuran.", "model genetik tersebut berkonsert dengan tiga aspek teks untuk mendukung kesimpulannya. Pertama, konteks dalam mana teks dibaca. Kedua, komposisi gramatika teks adalah bagaimana dan apa yang ditanyakan. Dan yang terakhir, sepenuhnya atau sasaran.", "orientasi kognitif dari individu atau masyarakat dan menggabungkan seluruh pengetahuan individu dan masyarik, dan pandangan, terkadang perbedaan pendapatan dapat ditemukan dengan variasi dalam empasis antara tiga aspek. Dan topik terakhir adalah bagaimana perspektif tentang kerja wanita dalam menerbitkan distensi gender di Islam?", "Saya akan menjelaskan perspektif tentang wanita mengikut Aminah Wadud. Aminawadud berharga terhadap nilai yang telah dikaitkan dengan perbedaan ini. Nilainya menyebutkan wanita sebagai lemah, kekurangan, jauh lebih buruk, tidak bisa dikatakan intelektual dan tak bisa dipercaya secara spiritual. Evaluasi ini telah digunakan untuk mengatakan bahwa wanita adalah mampu melakukan beberapa hal", "atau untuk fungsional dalam beberapa cara di masyarakat wanita telah direstriksi untuk berfungsi yang terkait dengan biologinya lelaki, pada sisi lainnya, adalah lebih superior dan lebih penting dari wanita dan pemimpin dia dan penjaga dengan kapasitas ekstensif untuk melakukan tugasan yang tidak bisa dilakukan oleh wanita", "tidak bisa. Sebagai sebabnya, laki-laki lebih manusia dan menyukai pilihan pergerakan yang benar-benar dia, pertunjukan, sosial, politik, dan ekonomi berdasarkan motivasi dan peluang manusia. Ini sebenarnya adalah komposisionalisasi institusi untuk situasi yang berbaloi ini.", "anak-anak, pembantu mereka dan adalah penyelenggara utama dalam tahun awal. Selain itu, peran sosial dan ekonomi yang biasa dikatakan sebagai profil laki-laki tidak pernah dilakukan secara eksklusif oleh laki. Deskripsi distinsi gender", "distensi anatomis antara laki-laki dan wanita. Ini juga adalah pengetahuan bahwa para anggota setiap fungsi gender dalam cara yang mewujudkan distensinya yang telah diperhitung oleh kultur pada mana mereka berada. Al-Quran tidak mencoba untuk mengenalai perbedaan antara manusia atau mereka menghilangkan", "yang membantu masyarakat untuk berjalan dengan lembut dan mencapai kebutuhannya. Namun, fakta bahwa Al-Quran diperoleh pada 7th century Arabia ketika Arab memiliki persepsi dan pemikiran tentang wanita" ]
amina_wadud/FILSAFAT ISLAM DAN GENDER _Amina Wadud dan Fatima _J1NSMPizwIE&pp=ygURQW1pbmEgV2FkdWQgaXNsYW0%3D_1742906876.opus	[ "Bismillahirrahmanirrahim Assalamualaikum warahmatullahi wabarakatuh Bismillah alhamdulillah wa salamu'ala rasulullah Sayyidina Muhammad ibn Abdullah Wa ala ali ushari wa mawalah amba badah Yang saya hormati kepada dosen pengampu mata kuliah filsafat islam Bapak Muhammad Nabil Hasbullah MPDI Dan teman-teman sekalian Untuk kali ini", "Kami dari kelompok ke-12 Atau kelompak terakhir akan membahas Mengenai Filosofat Islam Dan gender yang diplopori oleh Aminah Wadud dan Fatimah Mernisi Untuk itu Kami Yang berangkutakan Nurismi Hajiwengoh Bizuti Niyah Dan saya sendiri Ahmad Ridhoamir Akan memaparkan Penjelasan tentang", "penjelasan tentang pemikiran dari kedua tokoh Islam tersebut untuk toko yang pertama mengenai dari Aminah wadud Amin ahwad ini adalah seorang yang lahir di Amerika Serikat yang lahil dari keluarga yang beragama Kristen namun", "Aminah Wadud ini pada tahun 1972 memeluk Islam dan menguturkan dua kalimat syaitan Dan mengubah nama sebelumnya menjadi nama yang islami yakni Aminahah Waduud. Diaw termasuk orang yang cerdas dan banyak menempuh kuliah di berbagai negara Termasuk Amerika", "Mesir, yakni di Cairo setelah menjadi mu'alaf dia juga mengkaji masalah dari tafsir di Universitas Islam Cairo Setelah itu dia juga banyak bekerja di dunia pendidikan salah satunya", "juga pernah menjadi dosen di Universitas Kajah Mada, Yogyakarta hingga sekarang. Nah dari pemikiran-pemikiran Aminah Wadud disini yang pertama adalah mengenai konsepsi keadilan sosial yang mengutamakan persamaan jenderal", "ini yang menjadi fokus utama dari pemikiran dari waktu karena wanita dalam kebanyakan itu menjadi dinomperduakan dalam segi gender dari sini menurutnya secara jelas Al-Quran bertujuan untuk membentuk keadilan tatanan sosial termasuk kesetaraan gender", "setara gender antara laki-laki dan perempuan. Keadilan yang menjajarkan posisi laki lagi dan perempuan itu sama di mata angguran, yang membedakan hanya keimanannya. Menurutnya bentuk dari nilai-nilai yang terkandung dalam paradigma tawhid disini", "Allah dengan menerima kehendak tanpa ada intervensi dari siapa pun disini status martabat laki-laki dan perempuan di mata Allah atau dimata Tuhan itu sama dengan hal itu tawhid membuka bungsib kesetaraan yang harmonis pada gender tanpa", "Dari sini hubungan antara tema-tema yang sudah dibahas sebelumnya oleh Wadud mengenai Tauhid, keesaan Allah, khalifah dan takwas sengaja direkomendasi rekonstruksi atau diangkat ulang oleh WADUD untuk membangun pemahaman yang lebih inklusif terhadap gender", "mempengaruhi perubahan dalam hukum dan pemerintahan atas nama pengatasnamaan perempuan muslim di Indonesia. Ketidakadilan antara tanda mengabaikan konsep-konsep ini, perembuan musulima telah menjadi korban ketidakandilan tersebut diranah domestik publik dan praktek kebudayaan Islam dewasa ini.", "Keterbelakangan perempuan dalam hal ini di ruang domestik dan ruang publik ternyata berdampak pada lingkup spiritual, yang mana hak dasar perembuan yang hakiki, yang berbicara atas nama dirinya sudah menjadi kenyataan biasa bahwa peremmuan harus mengikuti berbagai bentuk aktivitas spiritual.", "berdasarkan pilihan dan keputusan laki-laki ini menjadi poin yang poin penting dari pemikiran dari wadud ingin menyetarakan gender antara laki terbuat itu sama di mata Allah wadu melanjutkan pemikirannya dan memfokuskan kajian lebih pada aspek", "Islam dengan Arab itu tidaklah sama harus bisa dipisahkan antara budaya Arab dengan konsep ajaran Islam penafsiran terhadap relasi ini lagi-lagi dan berubah menjadi pengaruhi oleh tradisi masyarakat Islam punya pedoman hidup yang bernilai universal jadi jangan melihat Islam secara luarnya saja", "Tapi kita harus mengetahui Apalagi menjadikan kiblat spiritual Yang seharusnya menjadi Dalam individu seseorang Dengan Tuhan secara sadar Bukan paksaan Menjadi arah yang mutlak Di dunia sejarah lain Jadi budaya Islam dengan Indonesia itu Arab dengan Islam Itu beda-bedanya Oke untuk selanjutnya", "pemikiran dari Fatima Marnisis akan dijelaskan oleh teman saya", "didik yang tinggi Fatima Mernisi lahir dalam lingkungan harem dan menghadapi dua kulutur keluarga yang berbeda yaitu lingkungannya di kota Fos Harem disimpulkan dengan dinding-dinding yang tinggih sementara dari keluarga ibunya yaituk rumah neneknya Layla Yasmina", "yang berada jauh dari perkotaan Harem diwujudkan dalam bentuk rumah yang digelingi oleh kebun yang sangat luas. Di rumah neneknya ini, Fatimah Mernisi mendapat pengalaman berharga tentang kesetaraan semasa manusia, sesama manusia.", "keterkungkungan dalam haram serta hubungan sebab-akibat antara kegalahan politik yang dialami kaum Muslim dengan keterpurukan yang dialani perempuan. Atta Agustina pada tahun 1999. Selanjutnya, di segi pengembaraan intelektualnya di Universitas Bahasa", "Universitas Muhammadiyah 5, Muhammad V dirabat dengan mengambil ilmu politik yang diselesaikan pada tahun 1965 selanjutnya pada tahun 1973 melanjutkan ke Paris dan sempat bekerja sebagai wartawan dia menyelesainkan program dokternya dalam bidang", "Sosiologi dari Universitas Perbis dia kembali lagi ke Meroko pada tahun 1974 sampai 1981 dan dia mengajar pada Departemen Sosiology di Universitas Muhammad V sekaligus dosen The Institute of Psychology", "safety first research pada universitas yang sama-sama. Bagi pemikiran, pemikirannya, pem pikiran petina mernisi dalam menjengkel sistem patriarki nampaknya dipengaruhi oleh budaya ketiga", "belajar di Perancis Petina merisi sangat apresiatif terhadap konsep individualisme liberalisme dan kebebasan individu yang berkembang di barat gerakan feminisme di barak semakin menyambar", "menyadarkan betapa dominasi lelaki-lelaki masih apa ya masih bertahan di dunia Arab hal ini hal ini terlihat ketika perang Teluk berlangsung semua tertarik untuk memperjuangkan", "menjuangkan kemerdekaan dan untuk menuntut dihentikannya perang termasuk didalamnya perempuan. Dan metode berfikir ketika merisi nampaknya juga dipengaruhi oleh Muhammad Al-Ghazali iaitu dalam kaitannya dengan studi kritis hadis", "Misuginis tentang kepemimpinan perempuan dampaknya dipengaruhi oleh Al-Ghazali yang pemahamannya dikaitkan dengan Al-Quran Surah Al-Mu'minun ayat 23", "Mengetahui berbuatan dan perkataan yang bersumber dari Nabi" ]
amina_wadud/F-lab Atria_ Amina Wadud_JyZjHYgaXBg&pp=ygURQW1pbmEgV2FkdWQgaXNsYW0%3D_1742900125.opus	[ "A brief word why, well you all know why we're here but this is a very special occasion for Adria. Adria as the institute founded in 1935 and dedicated to preserve women's history and it has evolved over the years and we are active not only preserving women's", "advising all various stakeholders on women's issues, contemporary or in the past. So we have a whole range of activities but one of the things we really think are crucial in the 21st century is to be an outreaching institute and to engage as many people and organizations as possible particularly from the perspective of intersectionality because", "that is under siege if I can be very bluntly. The whole nationalist waves that we are all facing across the world, not only in the United States with a president who has no precedent basically but it's also in Europe so i think from a gender and feminist perspective there is a challenge there and that is something we really have to take serious. So I actually decided to launch what we call the F-Lab", "And today is the first meeting of an EFLAB. What is an EFLAB? It's a close setting like today where we invite dedicated people who are working on dedicated issues and to create space that is safe to explore the boundaries,", "how can we achieve the kind of social and political change, cultural change that we would like to. And the idea is that this is like a snowball, that the ideas that are generated within the EFLab will be projected and carried out so to speak in the wider world. Today is the first EFLap as I said it will be streamed", "streaming in, let's say, settings at Adria before and we're getting quite a number of white audience so to speak. Today we have invited a very diverse group of women most of whom are Islamic background or religiously active from within Islam", "by a few non-Islamic women who are dedicated to further the dialogue from a religious and political perspective between Islamic and non-islamic. By combining the diverse backgrounds we think, at least we hope, to further that kind of dialogue that is crucial for today. Today is really about Professor Amina Badoud so I won't go any further now about Adria", "Atria, it is with very special pleasure since I had the opportunity to join prayers yesterday which was a very moving experience for me. I've had only experiences in South Africa with prayers this was so different not only because you're... It was the first time that a woman basically said the prayers", "to see what it did to all the women who were there and that is something I won't forget. We have been talking to some of the colleagues at INDRIA also, to write about this because I think it's so crucial that particularly younger Islamic women speak out publicly about what it means to have these kinds of experiences where you are saying prayers basically and guiding them", "Professor Amina Wadud, I mean I met her as in this setting but is an eminent scholar. But this is not enough to say you're not just an eminence scholar with a long long history You were pioneer one of the first who basically said This can be read differently the Quran and in that intellectual Enterprise you have been so audacious and taking so many risks and that's something that I think is impressive", "is impressive and I'm humbled by having your presence here. Saskia Wieringke is in another way a very impressive academic scholar, I must say Professor Woodward is an emeritus scholar at this point in time although you're still active in Chalkiakartai so the university isn't it? Not really, I was there after I retired but... Okay. I'm back in the US.", "Okay, Saskia is also a Merit I professor at the University of Amsterdam though still very active. Her chair is on the same-sex relationships from a cross-cultural perspective but why we have invited Saskia she's also has converted to Islam and has given a lot of thought about what it basically means to do that", "thought we cannot have a better person to engage Professor Radut in the kind of dialogue we envision. And I must say that, I cannot not say it but that was not the reason to invite Saskia she's also the former director of one of the former institutes that preceded Atria and that was Aleta. So without further ado I want to invite you both and give the floor to Saskia just one practical comment", "one of my colleagues who is sitting there will be the moderator in all other areas for the rest of this meeting. Shall I give that to you? Enjoy the afternoon. Well hello everyone, it's a pleasure and an honor to have professor Dr. Wadud here and all of you of course. My name is Jade Wilay Fitos", "and it's my privilege to be today's moderator. And I would like to go through the format, today's format very briefly. In a minute Professor Wadud will be interviewed by professor Weeringham that will roughly take about 20 minutes. Following this interview there will be a Q&A session and you will have the opportunity to ask questions to the professor directly.", "questions please raise your hand and I will reach out the microphone to you. I want to end at a quarter to three, because professor Godud will leave us at roughly 10 to 3 so there will be a brief moment for the photographer to take a picture of all of us and we're all invited to be part of that", "Well done, let's see. As you all know this event is live streamed and will be seen on Atria's Facebook. Talking about social media I invite you to Twitter we have the hashtags AfLab and Amina Badoud If you can use Atria account we can retweet it", "can retweet it. I think that's all I have to say, so I'd like to invite Professor Wadwood over here please. Have a seat and Professor Wiedenkamp. It is a great honor to meet you finally I must", "I think I know a bit about you, particularly about your writings and also because you've been very involved in Indonesia also and in the debates there. You're much honored and admired there so for me it's great honor to be able to have this conversation. I would like to start with some little bit of a personal question if you don't want to answer it it's fine when i converted in around 2004", "and it had to do with everything related to love and all that, I was effortlessly reading the Quran. Right? I wanted to make sure that the Quran was a text that I could fully read it. And I read when you converted in the 70s early 70s, you only found a copy of the Quran that was presented to you a year afterwards. So the Quran and your conversion saying the Shahada", "are distinct in time. What was the motivation at that time for you to convert? I always like to invoke the sacred before I begin because I need to remind myself and then to remind everyone else that this is my main motivation. In the context of", "of religion because I was born the daughter of a Methodist minister. I was already raised in a God conscious household and I became very interested in religious diversity, in the way people practice. And by the time I was at university I became a Buddhist and I still practice meditation today. So when I began to read about Islam out of this same sort", "having to reclaim my body in the public space so I had started to wear long clothes. So when I went into a mosque near my mother's house in Washington DC, I was at school in Philadelphia so about two hours drive difference. When I went in to the mosque I think the guys there kind of thought I was already sort of halfway in the door and they just said well you know believe that there is no God but Allah and Muhammad is his prophet you should just take the Shahada", "And, you know I was 20 years old and I was open to the experience so I accepted. I didn't see it as a lifetime commitment yet. And then I returned and continued to read. It was literally five months later that was in November coincidentally on the US holiday of Thanksgiving. So I always have something to remind me", "It turned out to be a childhood friend of mine who lived in the neighborhood of this little community mosque and the guys had gone up and down the street trying to specifically proselytize to women. So they had given her a Quran, but they never gave that to me. And when you enter into something as vast as Islam, you don't really know what is the priority.", "speaking environments. So I think I kind of agree with you in terms of the preferential order that the Quran should come first, but it wasn't my experience. But in a way it was like the seal because I had such a personal relationship with it and then I actually made it the focus of my research for the master's or PhD", "particularly you, with your analysis clearly exposed also problematic language. So as you at times also indicated there is maybe a gap between the divine revelation and the actual linguistic representation of that in this Arabic language. The Arabic language which is gendered so it always demands a gender notification whereas possibly", "such a gendered representation, right? This leads you to possibly and this is a dicey question that particularly in Indonesia of course but also in other countries and I'm approaching this from Indonesian perspective where there is so much attention to the original language. So questioning the Arabic as a language whereas", "people will say that you're committing blasphemy. How do you negotiate this? Well, because I studied linguistics and hermeneutics, one of my favorite quotes from my favorite professor is every language has deficiencies and every language exuberances. And then there's the other component and that is what we consider to be ineffable. There are some things", "that you cannot capture in language at all. So for me, that is the purview of the sacred but our only way to converse about it and in fact even reflect on it and think about it is through our languages so I would not isolate Arabic in that respect. I would say that all languages are only a shadow of the complete possibilities of meaning", "since the Prophet was an Arab, spoke Arabic and was not literate in the sense of reading it is natural that particular revelation would come in the language he would best understand. So that means that the revelation has to accommodate", "given the 7th century Arabian reality. But we also believe that revelation, first of all did not start with the Prophet Muhammad, there was revelation in form of the Gospels that were given to Jesus and there was a revelation to Moses and to Dawud and David and other prophets that we recognize. And the relationship between the letter of Revelation", "more profound in the Quranic experience. And that is why we have a uniformity, that all of the Qurans in the whole world have the same Arabic letters. But again because it's language, the question about whether or not it fully expresses the realm of meaning for God is not something I personally believe is even possible.", "multilingual and that it is possible to communicate with God and also to understand communication from God in non-linguistic terms. So like the Buddha would say, you know, that he held up a flower and someone received enlightenment. So in other words there was something that was communicated in the essence of this living thing or maybe it was not living when he held it up but again it's a metaphor for the possibility", "possibility of arriving at sacred understanding. So for me, sacred understanding is not limited to any language and all languages are deficient that there is more to the divine than just what we say about it I fully agree with you but it's difficult to swallow maybe or understand for a lot of people This leads me to another issue which is closely related to this", "So, as you're saying the meaning of the divine revelation, the meaning exceeds actually the language in which the Quran has been originally written up. Or any language? Any language, clearly. There is even a larger distance I would say between the Quran, I think... I've also read it, studied it and beautiful passages in it", "and many other scholars have clearly also analyzed that your book is one of the prime examples of that but when we are confronted with misogyny, with homophobia and with all kinds of other ugly things right it's usually from the hadith right. The sayings, the words, the later traditions based on what the prophet said or did or whatever", "least as I experienced them come from how do you see the hadith and how do deal with the hadit yeah because i don't have the expectation that any one form will satisfy the completion of the possibilities of the divine I don't necessarily feel that there's a black-and-white that somehow everything is good in Quran", "That's not been my experiences or the conclusions of my own research. Right, no, I'm just sort of exaggerating the point but what I find is that there is a locality that is 7th century Arabian locality and there were lots of shortcomings in that locality some of which we're not even specific to that locale because patriarchy was pretty much the way of the world and we still try to come to the end of it now", "now. And so being located within a patriarchal context means that certain aspects of the sort of politics of hegemony, that the idea that you know if there are two things they have to be black and white one has to be good one has bad one has acceptable one has rejected this kind of binary was already encoded", "philosophers, they were spiritual leaders. They were legal thinkers as well as other fields of science when they began to investigate the legacy that was bequeathed to us both from the wordings of the Quran that is from the revelation and from the example of the Prophet in his speech The first act that they recognized although it took about 150 years was that if someone could legitimate what they wanted to do by saying", "saying that they heard it somehow from the Prophet so that the construction of what we call false hadith was actually one of the reasons for developing the sciences of Hadith study. So in the basis of the sciences, someone like al-Bukhari for example only codified about 2,000 as being sound but he literally collected 14,000.", "there's a discrepancy between the existence of statements that supposedly on the authority of the Prophet and those that by those sciences they have determined were more sound. And even when they made those determinations, it was that gap because that process of sort of Hadith criticisms and development of what we call the olu'um al-Hadith is the sciences or the disciplines for the study of Hadit", "of the life of the Prophet, which is not the same with the Qur'an which was recorded and memorized in his lifetime. So when the jurists, which are the third level so you have the Qur-an revelation then you have hadith statements from the prophet and his behavior that's how he embodied what he understood from the Qur-'an in his context but the third", "they had a motivation and the motivation I think you can reduce singularly to this. How do we live this thing called Islam? What does it mean to be Muslim? And then they had to contextualize it based on law, policy, and their own locality what's called earth. When they began to formulate the juridical principles because in the Quran which has over 6000 verses but only", "has a little over 6,000 verses. Basically about 80 of them can be used to actually formulate laws. So how do you come up with comprehensive laws? What's going to be the speed limit on a certain street and where are you gonna put a stop sign and all that? When you come to construct the actual laws they went to other sources and one of the sources that they went", "of even the hadith sciences was going on and as a consequence some of the jurists would rely singularly on the existence of a hadith whether strong or not. Some of them would rely only on strong hadiths, and so there were you know there was it was a sort of a dynamic kind of conversation going on about how to do it. So the fact that some people would rather have some what they call nasa, some source text either a", "the Quran. There's about 300 that you can kind of use to make a law, but there's only 80 that you could go directly. So because it was so little material they went to the next primary source and it became important for some of them especially like Imam Chafeeb, you have to have a source text. If you don't have a sourced text then you can't even do what they call ijtihad or independent reasoning. But there were other jurists who developed", "the social benefit. And if Maslaha became a priority over specific source texts, then you will see that their jurisprudence developed differently. So this is just a question of looking at the history of evolution of community that wanted to be able to live in accordance with their best understanding of this wonderful experience of revelation to the prophet but how do you do it when your away from the prophet by 100 years 200", "but also, and this is what's important in our time how do you do it when circumstances in the world so radically require that we rethink even how we apply those juridical principles to achieve the same goal. So for example there's a scholar Iranian scholar Shalhoub who used to say that the prophet took us from the injustice of his time", "of his time. And that's supposed to be an ongoing movement. How do we arrive at the justice of our time and how do we relate it to our sources? That is why the necessity, not only for the continuation of the project of interpretation but also as I studied specifically in my work, the inclusion of all voices sort of democratization", "knowledge in Islam, how do we arrive at that in our time so that the justice will actually be something that will achieve its best potential in our times and in our location? Right. That is exactly my next question. If you think about what is the most important, at least the most global type of discourse about rights it's a human rights discourse right? The common slogan about human rights is", "indivisible and it's universal which means that human women's and sexual rights are linked you cannot take out one particular right but you've got to look at them all in their context and fulfill them. And of course they are codified in all these big confidence ICPR, CEDAW and all that right so that is the western discourse that they're universal", "which I know best and in many other Muslim countries also, they're saying no, we have our own Muslim human rights. And we don't accept your universal rights. We think they are very Western. We don't want them. And even if they accede to them, they come up with lots of limitations for instance in family law. How do you see this debate between the so-called universality of human right? Do you see them as universal or do you", "How can we come to some kind of a compromise in which the rights of people, humanity in general, particularly women and sexual minorities, can be guaranteed? I think that the discourses over human rights has a very long history. Sometimes when it becomes problematized you want to shorten that history. The construction of the UN at the middle part of the previous century is not the beginning", "consideration of what it means fundamentally to be a human being, which is the first part. Because you can't have human rights if you have not examined what you mean by human being. And then secondly, what are rights that should be guaranteed to anyone no matter what their locations in terms of all the different stations and possibilities of those human beings? That conversation has been ongoing including in the context of Islamic scholars who", "the rights of human beings. But what happened in the middle part of the last century, I think is appropriate to how this current conversation is going on because after the experience of the two world wars it became very clear that despite the fact we are all human, it is possible to treat another human in a way that is entirely inhumane. Sometimes its being justified because they're the enemy, sometimes its being", "We had war with them. So we wanted to, as a collective, think about what unites us as human beings irrespective of our differences. That began another kind of conversation about human rights. Coincidentally the architects of that conversation were the same ones who have colonized so many other places in the world. Objections to how they understood what is a human being and how they understand what are rights has been ongoing", "ongoing and as a consequence often there has been an adjustment. So the inclusion of women's rights as human rights, that's a more recent dialogue it wasn't at the beginning of you know sort of the UN declaration of universal human rights. That didn't even come we had to bring that in and then the rights of sexual diversity that had to come in. The rights of children, the rights", "never capture it once and for all. We have to continually interrogate the limits of our own conversation. So what does Islam have to say with regard to this? Well, because we also have a notion of what it means to be a human being, and we also know a notion rights, we can be architects and participants in the construction of the dialogue. And in some ways we were not given equal access so for some people they just want", "out the whole thing. But what we have done, particularly now I'm working with Musawah which is a global movement for reform and Muslim personal status law, what we've done is to always bring the conversation back to the bare levels. And that is, what is the construct of the human being? And what are the sources for understanding what is", "And then how do we make contributions so that everyone is actually fully included?", "become a part of the dialogue that was already going on and for some of them it was not satisfactory. So they did construct the idea, sort of Islamic universal human rights and they actually have a document but because of membership in UN for most of the countries of the world today They became invited to be signators on these other documents And then once they signed it sometimes they will hold reservations. They say well that goes against our culture", "culture that goes against Islam. And what we have done is, just as we must determine who gets to define what is a human being, we also have to determine who can define what Islam. So one of the positive contributions I think of the women's movement is re-articulation of who has agency with regard to defining Islam. Sometimes someone will assert something and say,", "But if you step back and interrogate how they come to their definition of Islam, and you offer the definition that you have arrived at, and offered the evidence to show. What we are saying is these sources belong to all of us, that is the Quran, Sunnah, Hadith, Fiqh, that they belong to us so we are stakeholders. And we have a right to be able to determine to what extent there will be applications in our lives", "become the litmus test about whether or not any particular articulation is actually fulfilling the stated goals, which are usually justice and dignity. So it's an ongoing conversation but the conversation was never really closed and we have not yet arrived at universal human rights articulated in any one document by anyone. Okay thank you that's very interesting for me to hear that and I would like to pursue that further", "But what I would like to ask you now is about each Tihad, right? The interpretation which actually has been pronounced closed for some time but as you also say we must open it up and continue this discussion. And so far this discussion has been the rights to engage in each Tihad has been going on in unequal terms with a lot of men male scholars asserting appropriately", "to themselves the right to be better interpreters, more important interpreters of what it means to be a Muslim person than many women have. But you have asserted your rights I have the right too say the prayers and to lead the prayers also in a mixed gender audience and I think that's fantastic and I all of us here are very grateful to you for having that courage because it means that it is a very courageous act to do as you probably will know in Cirebon", "In Chiribon, a few weeks ago there was this huge meeting I think about 1000 ulama's female ulama. Ulama are religious scholars and who took the bold step? I think it is next bold step to say okay we also have the right to pronounce fatwas right? And after they pronounced about 10 or something like that right? On child marriage against domestic violence", "and lots of other issues. What else can women Muslim scholars do? I mean what you do is the interpretation, and I think there is a group of women Muslims scholars who give excellent interpretations leading the prayers pronouncing Fatma's, what else can we do so that our vision well I think many of us will agree with that", "ourselves probably, because we need to also have spaces for ourselves to engage in this kind of conversation. And how can we convince the male power holders in religion? How do you convince any power holder, it doesn't matter their gender. Yeah I think um you know we are now in 2017 and I think the consensus is pretty much that there were differences of opinion about whether or not the doors of its jihad were actually closed", "I think the assertion that the juridical principles had already been discovered was one of the reasons why it first asserted that the door of ijtihad was closed. Unfortunately, the very next century and then two centuries later with the expansion into the Americas and all that they already had come to what we would call unprecedented circumstances for which they did not have sufficient juridicall principles", "principles so that process really has been ongoing. But you're right, there has been I think sort of lack of access for women to participate in the conversation from the beginning they would become the receivers of opinions that have been generated with good intentions it wasn't as if there was not good intentions but", "that if you consider gender as a category of thought, it might make a difference in terms of the conclusions that you come to. That's something that has only come in the 21st century and so as a consequence now what we're saying is even the conclusions have preceded have to be interrogated as to whether or not they actually fulfill this sort of overall commandment of honor and dignity for all human beings", "that know there is the patriarchal bias and how do we move forward. Obviously one of the ways you move forward is by the inclusion of women's opinions, with the integration of women to live realities their experiences must become markers for whether or not a certain principle is in fact being achieved so for example social justice how can you say you know there's justice if women don't experience justice? So this", "contributing to what is the capacity to be able to render legal opinions has been interpretive work done by women, including myself for the last few decades. And the idea that we have permission, there's nothing in religion that prevents women from learning and becoming scholars but the facility that was not there in the early centuries has changed so you have all kinds of educational", "educational opportunities and access. But it should not be what we call a glass ceiling, that you can do so much with it and then you just simply must stop. And now we're negotiating with raising the glass ceiling and getting rid of it altogether, and we are taking more agency with regard to the assertion of our capacity to contribute to the construction of these kinds of dialogues. Indonesia which coincidentally is my favorite Muslim country on the planet has been", "has been in the leadership of this for a very long time. And the fact that Indonesia, just by sheer number are greater than all of the Arabic speaking Muslims combined which is something they like to remind me of is an indication of how much diversity there is in the Muslim world and for you and for me because we were born in the West or born in North", "to the conversation. Because for some people, no if you come from those places you are forever damned and then like how does Allah create the entire earth but you believe that only certain parts of it can have this? So now we have what could happen from the north? What can we contribute? And one of the things that we have to be mindful of is being born in what we call free democratic societies. We were raised to think as citizens", "of absolute equality and justice. And because we have been acclimated to this, we can make our life a part of the contribution to how it is that we democratize even the construction of knowledge and laws under the Islamic umbrellas. So Indonesia which is also a secular pluralistic democracy under Pancasila they have been at", "inclusive for women, to have spaces where women can gather knowledge independently. They have a trans, for example, Pisanthran. They're one of the few places with... there's been a lot of backlash. They are one of few places where this has already been apart so they're there are things that Indonesia has set the precedent for and when I was living there, I lived there for about a year-and-a-half, I used to say to people you know as much as", "from Arabic to Bahasa, from English, French or German into Bahasa. I said you must translate from Bahasa back into these other languages. You must share the way in which you evolved this conversation because they have been raised with a notion of pluralism it's like your beautiful batik shirt right? Chirbon has its own kind of batik and in a way what I experienced there is the beauty", "has to be from Java or they're not good. This is not even congruent with them. So, they actually have been the sort of living embodiment of inclusive spaces for women, the access of women to knowledge and the chance to be able to develop it, and certain ideas about plurality which is the way of the world. And in the context of Europe one of the comments I made last night is you have to come to a place where you understand that being European can no longer mean just being white", "being white. It justifies history and it denies you the possibilities of fulfilling what you consider to be your own democratic thrust. So we, everywhere in the world, are being challenged to open up our categories to be more inclusive. And that obviously includes gender discourse, sexual diversity, Islam, Muslims, non-Muslims... How do we really come to a place where our definition of human beings actually honors everybody?", "and of course I'm also proud that you are so happy in Indonesia, which is my second country. You will then also probably be very interested in the development which is going on right now, the kind of tensions struggles between those groups who are fighting for what they call Islam Nusantara from the archipelago a kind of indigenous Islam", "and the Salafist streams which are coming in with big money, and of course all these young brilliant trained minds to go for Daghwa and very fundamentalist Wahhabis oriented kind of interpretations. At this moment I'm just wondering what's going on? This is a struggle that is I think very important for the whole Muslim world", "and we have our own kind of versions of Islam which is suitable to our conditions, which indeed as you say are based on pluralism. And we've got to fight for this pluralism against these Salafist teachings coming in and engulfing us what they call the Arabic kind of Islam. Do you know any other countries", "the idea is that we ourselves have the right to construct our own version of Islam because the influence of Mecca and Medina, of course are so strong. And then they will say no it's Islam is our religion and we have the rights to live it and to honor it the way we want to in our countries in relation to our tradition to our culture because we could do that in the West End as well.", "Yes, in fact the conversation comes up in the US. Is there such a thing as American Islam or I think last week it was is there such thing as French Islam? And the reality is that Islam has always expanded with the people you know that it has reached and obviously there are many places in the continent of Africa where they're very clear that they have their own indigenous culture", "I think also about two weeks ago someone posted, you know, no thank you we don't need your scholarship come in tell us how to do our Islam about the continent of Africa but we do have now the diasporic Islam. But even if you look at Iran in terms of its articulation that it takes agency with regard to its own culture and his own intellectual traditions so actually if you think about a diversity is the rule exclusivity is the exception", "because people are very comfortable often with this black-white yes no good bad dichotomy there sometimes is an assertion that is counter to sort of pluralistic opening and obviously I'm more inclined towards the pluralistic openning and I'm", "as well as from extremist violent interpretations of Islam. But that actually I believe we the people will win out and if we just keep going, then we'll be successful in incorporating this pluralism for the future. So do I hope. I've got one more last question for you because I'm sure that people are already saying it's about time. When I'm reading about Islam, I'm struck by the figure of Khadija, right?", "over for her brilliance, her intelligence, her wit, her leadership and things of so on. But I find that the figure of Khadija, the first wife of the Prophet has been much neglected to such an extent even that her house as I understand it has been bulldozed under the ground and I think that's a great neglect. What is your relation with Khadijia? Yeah I think she's an amazing", "But I think the 28 years that she was married to the Prophet, the fact that she proposed marriage to him, the work he did for her and that she is the mother of his only children. And they were all female. So I think that she's a very under-considered figure when we start looking at history.", "The reality was that the collection of hadith that came during the Prophet's lifetime but really went into full canonical status after his death did not include her because she was not a part of that community when they migrated to Yathrib or Medina. So I think some of it is just sort of historical oversight, but I think its worth excavating and unfortunately I've seen where her house used", "know that it used to be there because it's completely you know paved over yeah unfortunately thank you so much thank you thank you very much professor wadud with enlightening us with your vision on islam with your analysis on israel was so profoundly interesting i would like to give the audience the opportunity ask questions", "Assalamu alaikum wa rahmatullahi wa barakatuh. I'm a born again Christian, so this is already interesting right? This start. I come from Egypt, Egyptian background and as both flying correspondent and someone who has been an advocate of LGBT rights especially by cultural minority groups here in Holland", "or they're gay, or transgender like me. Or because they are simply not fitting in the expectations of their parents and what I see with them is a huge pain and struggle to keep their faith but also being who they are. And this often leads to shame it needs to repulsion, it leads to many things, it lead to loss of faith", "staying with God and being me. But I finally got to bridge the gap, and I can say that I'm more a believer than ever, and am more me than ever although against all odds you could say even my parents still ask me how can you call yourself Christian or how can use call yourself a child of God living this way blah blah blah... And so I was wondering because I get this question over and over again", "Muslim for example struggling with being herself having the love for life as she does and being a Muslim and having this interpretation of Islam that is so exclusive that she never fits in somehow and hence it's always having this personal pain and struggle what do you have to say to these second third generation Muslim youth who want to accept their faith but have the struggle both internally and externally as both society, the non-religious side doesn't understand why they're", "and then the families also saying if you were a true Muslim, you wouldn't live like this or you wouldn' be like that and so on and support haram haram. Yeah I think it's because of the binary. I mean I think we like to simplify things and in the context of religious discourse not only do we want to simplify it after we have simplified it then we want give sort of divine sanction to it. Me I deal with always sort of non-conforming realities", "realities, the ambiguities, the paradoxes, the spaces of these sort of uncomfortable overlaps. So it's kind of easy but I think what you have highlighted is something that we are still working very hard to understand and that is that if we have a notion of the divine, that is of a creator, and we accept that everyone is created by the same source and in Islam we also say", "source. If that is true, then how again we go back to our conversation, how again do we understand what it means to be human? And that's why I like to say that the conversation is still going on because part of the conversation being able to accept the realities of people whose bodies do not necessarily fit the models that you know fits in those binaries so you", "for example right now I'm doing research and one of the things that I'm collecting in my research also includes children who have been diagnosed with certain types of different learning modalities, and the idea of honoring their learning modality as a way to be able to bring out what their natural talents are. As opposed to making everyone fit one uniform you know sort of learning", "of the genius of difference. I heard her in an interview and she said, if we don't tap into the resources that people have to offer in such a way that we allow these human beings, these children to develop then we're going to miss out on certain things because there is in fact something that we are learning in these new ways of processing. And so the reason why this helps in terms", "Muslim societies we went through colonialism and into this really heavy sexual taboo, and we don't really have an easy capacity to have these conversations. But actually for me if you look at it, it's just a manifestation of the wide variety of diversity of human beings and that if we come from the same source and we're going to return to that source then within", "to come to their own understanding and then to live according to the best of that understanding. But if you're in that black-and-white mindset, you want to tell people you can't do this, you can do that... This morning I put flowers on my Instagram account and somebody wrote back, If you believe in Allah stop leading prayer. I thought that's the stupidest thing you ever say! If I get up into the house in the morning and I want to make my prayer, I'm going to lead the prayer by myself. And that you would seek someone out", "out in order to be able to make this kind of negation, we really have to understand that for some people life is just so fragile that unless they hurt another person they cannot be fulfilled within themselves and we have to challenge ourselves to rise above that. To take risk in terms of our encounters with others. To embrace the differences because tomorrow it could be your child or your grandchild that is born with this kind", "persecuting someone because they were autistic and now I have this child you know so we have to really embrace that every human being is special and that every Human Being has something to offer and that everybody should have the right to be able to learn what it is that they have to offer. My name is Kauthar Darmoni, I am from Tunisia", "Muslim out of choice even though I was brought up Muslim. So as a child, it was very...I was with the nuns at Catholic school and in summer at the Quranic school. And I made a long way because my father is an imam, I had to have a lot of theological discussions about Islam. And i say again, I choose. I stepped out of Islam and went back to Islam.", "interpretation of the text. So I use a lot for many years at university with my students, I used your texts, the texts of Fatima Bernisi and Nawal Saadewi from Egypt but no matter how creative I am with the text and believe me I had thousands of discussions with my father who is very theological like I have really to be strong there are certain texts which I still have a lot of difficulty with and for example one of them is Surat An-Nisa'a", "beat them because beat them is beat them no matter how the punctuation changes or the interpretation so I was wondering how do you deal with that when there are some explicit texts which are no matter what is the context in which we place them they're still not necessarily very friendly towards women yes there are somewhat we call problematic passages in terms of the struggle for gender equality", "I'm not going to try to reduce it. But the reality is, I think someone asked a question just at the end last night which was in a way my favorite question. The reality is there's the letter of the text and there's understanding of that letter and from that understanding we then go into practice or implementation. And so there is never the reality that there's text and then we know what to do. There's always a process. And even with this verse there is a process", "the process and even unpacking its sort of historical trajectory takes at least an entire lecture by itself. And that's why I have been writing about that verse since beginning, and I also have a chapter in The Men In Charge which I think my mind might be my last time to write about it but it took 45 years because that book came out well maybe two years so maybe 43 years. So", "a part of our reality and how much agency we can have with regard to it, which by the way there is no limit to the agency. But how do we claim that agency? And then how do make it a part structure of our civil societies and courts let alone our culture. So there's a lot of steps that goes with it but it is not to be overlooked and underplayed. It's a very serious thing", "it does require an engagement with the nuance. It's not a black and white answer. Hi, I'm Berna. I had a question because you just told there is something like French Islam or Dutch Islam maybe, and that's a question I've been thinking about a lot so I'd like to ask you to collaborate on them a little bit more. Because in my experience especially mosques", "What is your experience in the United States?", "to create such a platform here? And also, to the audience if you know of a platform like this please inform me about this. Yeah I mean I think it's not unusual that immigrants in any country will construct for themselves what we used to call cultural enclaves and the number one place for Muslim immigrants to the diaspora has been construction either of mosques or community centers", "community centers. And so again, I consider that to be completely natural but I don't consider that the limit in the conversation and so in the end for all of those same immigrants who you know elect to stay here and to marry and to have children and then their children have children it means that they are part of the evolution", "American Islam and it's not going to look like what was the same kind of cultural enclave that led them to create these sacred spaces for themselves. And it's a wake-up call sometimes, and sometimes in terms of the parents, it's difficult for them. I went to Hajj in 2012 and I believe there were two other African Americans", "African Americans and everyone else was of an immigrant background. Either they themselves had integrated, and now were US citizens or their parents had immigrated. And what I found was interesting is that the default for them when they came to sacred worship was to go back to their culture. So basically I did not have an American Hajj experience. And I vowed that I would never go to Hajj unless I could guarantee that I'd have an experience that was more where I am.", "the acts of the ritual acts and I focused on that. I did not focus on my group so i literally don't know the names of any one of those persons even though I slept in a room with 89 of them you know for three nights in Mena it just did not speak to me culturally um and so I think that um uh and I think Indonesia again is one of the Malaysian Indonesians, one of places that really brought this home", "and that it was not Arab, but it's not to say that Arab by itself necessarily means a bad thing. But it means there is not a default for Islam culturally. Rather there is a default in terms of principles, in terms the essence. And each location will manifest those essence according to facilities they have against constraints they have. So Islam is moving.", "Islam is a reality in Europe. Islam is reality in the United States, irrespective of you know the guy in the White House who's trying to put a ban on it. It's not even realistic but we do have a lot of resistance and again part of the resistance is whether or not the participants from that country who were already there or that part of world say Europe, whether or", "that they will become Muslim or even be interested in Islam. But when they make a way to close off the door of possibility to people who are already here and already educated in this system, and then contributing to that system, they're part of the problem. So I think from within and from without we have to face this opposition to how do we evolve our identities with sort", "Because eventually we have to understand that those of us who inhabit this planet, either we all make it or none of us make it. And so even if on the way towards that reality, we have engage with that diversity then we really have to open up the space and we have opened up for ourselves. And in a way I kind of learned this in terms of like being a Muslim that's...I do believe that you know the whole earth is created by the same source", "the same source and that we return to that source. And I also see that we're not taking care of the earth, and I feel like the way in which we treat each other is an indication that we don't really know how to be the best. And then...I mean, I'm 65 this year so I'm closer to the grave than anything else. So I have to be really conscientious about how do I attempt to take", "how do I exemplify that in the way that I treat other people? That is, how do i approach even my enemy in such a way that i can both affirm the dignity of their humanity while also setting limits to the extent to which they might wish to violate mine. And I learned all of this because of the way in which I understand Islam and so I'm not shy to say", "and my Islam is going to be situated, first of all in my own body but secondly wherever I have my feet. So today it's in Amsterdam tomorrow I will be back in California insha'Allah safely And then I want to situate my Islam in that place. And the reason why I think that that's okay is because I do not believe that the presence of God is absent in anyplace. And so anyone who thinks there's more God in Mecca than there is in Rotterdam or something", "I don't believe in that God. I don' t believe in a sometimes-he-God, but this is very difficult for people when they are also under siege. They're under siege in terms of just how to get a job. It's a collective problem. It is a human problem and at some point there will be humans whose trajectory and history may have gone into Islam and Islamic roots, but in the end they arrive at being human. But we are nowhere near that", "one group really belongs to us all and we all have the capacity to be able to make a difference in how we shape the story of the future after this question i will shift through the other room because you also asked like if you knew if I knew any mosque or we knew any muslims were different maybe well now I'm not a Muslim but I do know that the El Kabir mosque has been really keen on addressing issues of today they have addressed the anti-gay flyer", "You know, having a memorial at the Fourth of May at the Gay Monument. And they are the biggest Moroccan mosque so they have a Moroccan heritage but they're really trying to... They have an interreligious dialogue with Jews and Christians So I think this is one of the mosques that at least try to adopt Islam to Dutch issues. And then you can still complain about a lot of things But I think if we also would go to this mosque instead of run away from it We can change the culture and make more a culture of today", "What mosque is this? Al-Qabiye Mosque", "it is that they wanted to worship. And so this movement for people claiming their own religious identity wherever they are, something that I grew up with and this is my history. So to watch Islam evolve in the context of the United States or Europe is the same thing but then we all come into this notion of some official place versus sort of an unofficial. And basically an official place only got officiated because of people. So your unofficial place becomes officiating when you invest", "the more, the merrier. And if it's not there you can make it. Hi Amina I'm Fabiana, I'm a journalist from Indonesia thank you for your comment about Indonesia but actually the conservatism is growing right now just to update. I have a question about jihad so actually I am a journalist who focus a lot on terrorism and I have some experience talking with these jihadists", "I interviewed a female jihadist of ISIS in Indonesia who is the first fighter to want to bomb the palace. So, I feel like I'm being blocked when I talk with this kind of people because they think that the value of jihad is internationalism. They use human rights case in Syria. They say we have to break these issues in Indonesia. Of course if I stay here and talk with these people,", "the same value but if we talk with this female ISIS terrorists they have no idea about being you know like I don't see Islam in there but they are so convinced with their self that they represented Islam and sometimes they're trying to convert me how can i open discussion because", "and meet this a lot of jihadists in Indonesia. And also you know that the conservatism and terrorism are also problem in Indonesia, how can I open this discussion with this group of jihadi's and terrorist? And also she is a woman and she feel that she represented the women movement in Islam so it's also like dilemma for me because i feel like i also represented a Muslim", "I literally have no answer. I don't know how to speak to a jihadist, someone whose dedication to destroying others in the name of what they consider sacred and holy. I do not have the capacity to offer any suggestion but I would like to think about the existence", "organizations and groups and persons, not just among Muslims but even in terms of the white supremacist version of it. I think that this is a dying breed. And you know how when a fly before dies it tends to buzz louder? Yeah, that's really how I feel. The reason why I feel it is because I'm 65 as I keep saying, and every decade of my life has been different from the decade before.", "At a certain point in time, I actually came to the place where dealing with converts, for example, in the United States. I literally didn't want to have a conversation with somebody who had been Muslim for less than five years. Other than the fact that I'm a retired professor and I would talk with anyone because you know that's the nature of the responsibility. First of all, I didn't wanna disturb the innocence of the evolution. I thought it should go its own course but secondly,", "back and repeat certain you know formulas over and over again which they were not ready to hear um and i really think maturity is an amazing thing i also think it's not related to age but I'm blessed by having had some experience of it that corresponded with as many years of age that i also have so i think that this is a very immature level of discourse that racism even though it keeps repeating itself", "that sort of jihadists are having a very immature conversation but they're having a conversation that is very charged and it's charged by a certain corruption of ideas, of power, and ideas of access. And so I would think that because they are also fully human being and therefore you know fully capable of dignity and fully deserving of it", "to be able to understand what goes into the making and then we need to look systemically at the kinds of things that are going on, that also encourage sort of the eruption of these kind of extremist voices no matter what they are. So in other words I don't think anyone is irredeemable but I don t know a specific and very pragmatic way to respond to it. I can only think about a systemic way and that systemic", "is we're on this planet, either we all make it or none of us make it. And I don't see in the extremist discourse, I don' t see anyone actually sort of aligning with that kind of understanding. They still think I'm me and my type and us, we need to make it because they them and whoever is against us and their an enemy. And this bifurcation is problematic but it has a root.", "and finding what is the root, you will find that it's embedded in a number of structures that go in together. And we need to dismantle those and start looking at how do we save the environment? How do we treat each other with honor and dignity? How can we respect our diversity? We need to raise our families and children and school systems and governments in such a way that we do this for everybody.", "The problem is that we are all part of it.", "you first need to know the rules. Like a writer first needs to know how language works before he can start becoming a creative writer. For me, I think it is maybe... and that's my question to you, isn't it time we pass this stage of what the Qur'an says or not? If we do or don't understand the Surahs correctly but go to the point where we dare say as women,", "not want from me. Because I feel that men have the right to be who they are and that they can come up and sit and say, you know, I do have sex without being married or I do drink or I don't do this or I'm a Muslim at the same time. And that's why it is not given to women and most of the time we women don't give that right to ourselves so we try to explain but the Quran says this maybe there are surahs that I don' understand for example", "about, you know I was married for 10 years and he used to hit me but not in my face. And he used say there is a Hadith that says you're not allowed to hit your wife in her face so he used hit me on all other parts of my body except my face and I used to go and think about it maybe he's right and there isn't a Hadis but now I reached the point I can feel how I want to be treated and if I feel", "or I don't need someone to explain to me. So my question to you is, maybe the next step is to say yes we try to read the Quran from a female point of view but at the end of today I decide if I'm a believer or not and I am and nobody can tell me that I'm not. Yes, I think I would recommend to you a book called Women's Ways of Knowing We teach this book in our Musawah workshops", "because we teach it within the first few days of the workshop. It's almost one of the first things that we teach and you know after a certain point, you know with the decision to give it at the beginning was determined by our experiences both with the text ourselves but also with how it is it shapes it so you sound very much like it and in it they talk about sort of four stages of knowledge and at the second stage of knowledge which is subjective knowledge then yourself does become", "determination but there are other stages of knowledge that incorporate that and that's why I think it would be a good thing for you to read. It is called Women's Ways of Knowing, it has four authors so I never like remember their names um but i think that as far as belief goes um uh you may notice I didn't I mean I looked over the books very quickly but um Asma Barlis' book on Quranic interpretation is called Believing Women and I think for her also just sort of emphasizing", "you know, a point of order. And because my own faith experience is literally diverse I had a good experience as a child of Christian minister. I was raised with the God of love. I took the name Wadu to reflect that. I had good experiences as a Buddhist. I still do meditation. Because all of my actual experiences were positive and I never had to run away from anything then", "I understand belief as a much more dynamic thing. So, I'm not one of those people who say you know, I don't drink but if you drink then therefore you're not Muslim. Not only do I not drink, I also don't like drinking so I don' really want to be around people who drink too much. So I have a bias. But I don''t use that as a litmus test for belief because belief is fundamentally about the person in relationship", "of what it means to be human and what it mean to have a relationship with the divine. And nobody has control over that except for yourself. However, there is the reality that within the history of all of the established world religions, the construction of boundaries in what is inside or outside is a very interesting discourse. I don't believe in boundaries because I like an unbounded God and I'm always trying to challenge myself in that way", "in that way. But when you are within people who can only think of things in terms of these boundaries, you have to almost give them the benefit of the doubt and have a bit pity on them because they haven't come to another level. I'm happy to say that at 65 I've had a pretty religiously dedicated life. That I spent a lot of time literally degrees and money towards understanding this phenomena", "phenomena and I'm no closer to having a complete understanding of it than at any other time. I am very happy to say that because what that does for me is it frees me every day to encounter the sacred in whatever way it comes to me. I'm not forced to replicate even myself from yesterday, but I also participate in repetitive things like the ritual observances. And so in terms", "a dialectic between what is understood and established, and what we understand and establish ourselves. And at the end of the day I truly believe that we are going to be questioned about who we were and what did but we're not gonna be questioned according to those boundaries We're gonna be questions in terms of our heart So when the Prophet said, you know, istafta qalbik, take fatwa from your heart", "I would give to other people. That you want to be the best person that you can be and no one knows that better than you, but you also want to challenge yourself so that you become more proficient at being able to be a believer for yourself. So, you know, no one can determine it for you, I agree, and at the same time don't ever be satisfied. In other words, tomorrow learn something new", "you know yourself so that your horizons will spend but you know and what i found is that no matter where I go there was still the presence of God. And the first time I went for a 10-day silent meditation because I'm like very talkative, I thought to myself what will I find when I stopped talking for that long? You know who is going to be there? It's very weird that I was afraid you know...and then I realized I'm only gonna find myself", "I've gone three times, I can't wait for another opportunity to remove all the dosha and the sound from my mind and actually find myself present with the presence. And then I can really feel the breath of Allah. So challenge your belief even though the first challenge seemed to be how other people wanted to shape it for you and you have survived that hurdle but that's not the end there are so many more vistas", "to experience because that is the most important first step. The most important step is taking agency with regard to yourself.", "a starting teenager the islamic revolution happened and i became a refugee sorry I'm getting emotional and i hated anything that has to have anything to do with religion, with Islam, with any religion later in my life i started to study philosophy. I majored in philosophy metaphysics", "metaphysics and I'm a philosopher now, and a writer. And I read your books a couple of years ago and also the work of Ziba Mirhoussimi and it really showed me that for me now I'm still not...I'm not a Muslim, I'm not Christian, I am religious thinker thinking we need some transcendence in order to be critical so would you agree with me that the Torah or", "The Qur'an basically is a philosophy of freedom, critical thinking and justice. And that it is not so much something that tells you what to do but that tells us that we have to find out how to get into connection with transcendental value of justice that we don't have in our hands.", "Are you still communicating with Iranian Islamic feminists?", "Iran is that it's actually on my bucket list. I'd like to go there. The problem is, as you can see by what has happened even with the media here, sometimes I like to come in under the radar and just visit a place as a tourist or scholar or believer and other times I have to come as this sort of controversial figure and that doesn't work for certain places so it's very hard to stay under the", "But for me, and I think I mentioned it before, there is a kind of sacred reality. And that sacred reality is in constant presence and interaction with the everyday ordinary mundane.", "I think the reality is that the most important thing is the quest itself. But I also think, being raised in a religious household and my father said specifically you know, I cannot go to the judgment for you, you have to go for yourself. And at that moment I was bequeathed the right and not only the right but the necessity for me to make my own journey so that to journey even out of the religion which I was embraced by my father", "he made a way for himself as a poor uneducated man to move out of that is not in opposition to it. I believe it's all the same trajectory so i believe ultimately each of us will be held accountable for who we are and that the measurements will not be by fancy speech or fancy dress, they were going to be stripped of all these outer symbols and we're gonna be left with something very fundamental and if that fundamental part isn't present", "of Catholicism or Theravada Buddhism, Hinduism or Islam. If that particular part is not available then all you are really is a robot. You're sort of an embellishment of symbols and it looks good and walks good and all the spiritual teachers tell you if you see the Buddha walking down the street kill him. All they can tell you is you have to smash all the idols", "our own construction of what it means to be a good Muslim or whatever. And many of us, we also have experienced in cultures that someone else tells us what it mean to be good Muslim and this entirely does not work for us. I used to say especially because you know I've been working with gender from the beginning they would tell you a good muslim woman is A B & C and you look at your personality and you're A and C and then you are R so you just start to twist yourself", "Like, who said it's A, B and C? Maybe it's a to z. You see? So to open up the dialogue... you see I didn't just take the personal journey. I also started to talk back. Because that is what we need. We need your energy to come back into the conversation so that the conversation is shaped in such a way that your sister in the future or your niece or three generations down below you on your sisters side", "side does not come up and have to face what you faced. We need to recreate the world in such a way that everyone can be embraced, and when we do that, when we don't feel like somehow we are the protectors of some really narrow boundary, then the presence of this sacred energy will be available to us everywhere. But right now we keep trying to... I went to Hajj at the time where they were starting to separate women from men because the lines used to go everywhere,", "whether they could pray on the first floor of the main mosque or on the main floor with the Kaaba itself. When they start to push, it's like the most crazy kind of momentum. You're going around like this, time for prayer comes and then you want half the people to go someplace else? It's stupid! So this pushback, this push back to the achievement of our full agency and capacity before Allah is the most ridiculous thing that I've ever heard. However we know it's dangerous, it ugly, it harmful", "So what you have experienced in a way leads you to a place where you will be a better contributor to another generation so that they will never have to experience what you've experienced. That would be my hope. Thank you so much Lisa. Let's start with an inside joke from South Africa, how queer Muslims greet each other.", "My question is quite broad, but it's a little bit different from the questions you might hear on your journeys and to relate to research. It's about concepts or one of the most significant concept of human dignity within the mystical Islamic tradition. I would really like to hear at least some highlights of your current phase of your research.", "Yes, and for those who don't know I am currently doing funded research on Islamic primary sources And sexual diversity in human dignity. It's funny because whenever I talk about it, I always say that it's the two things It's not just looking at sexual diversity but it's also looking at human dignity There are two fundamental passages One is the one that says", "We gave karama, which is dignity to all of the generations of humanity through the first prototype human Adam. And the other one is that the most...the one with the most dignity among you is the one who has the most God consciousness or sacred consciousness or spiritual awareness and integrity. So it's not just I look good, I have the right outfit", "right outfit it is actually a level of consciousness that allows you never to treat anyone in any way less than with the dignity, you know, the whole karama thing. Well for me in terms of the process I decided that for everyone whose interpretation say of the Quranic story of Lut, I would then look at their interpretation of this, you now, Karama like how did they... In other words I put these two conversations into juxtaposition because", "for some, well the time at which Islamic discourse began that is after the revelation and we started talking about it under this umbrella there were already discussions that were going on that lived in this sort of bifurcated reality. And so therefore having a juxtaposition between good and bad was already set and they simply sort of Islamized the same conversation", "and even the way in which we understand certain things. So, the question for me was whether or not people understood... And again I mean i'm born in the context of sort of a religious freedom and secular democracy obviously as a daughter you know descended from a slave. I have a lot of questions about how well because trust me they created those documents in the United States while they were holding slaves", "certain questions, you know naturally come to me and I was very curious about whether or not the conception of what it means to be a human being had been linked exclusively To the hierarchies that have been constructed into this discourse And you know It's interesting because I made that reference to say kids with autism and everything they'll have a different Processing system fully human and yet. They do not operate the way the majority people do they don't become less human right?", "human right and i use children in particular because usually people will you know sort of uh lower the wings of mercy right so i don't yet start with a conversation with the jihadist because we've got issues i got issues you know so i would try to like start with the children and so for me trying to sort of peel back the layers of the discourse over karama i notice that sometimes they will encode things that are literally not possible", "legs if both your legs work but if your legs don't work you are not less human right so i'm still unraveling it but unfortunately and I say this with tongue-in-cheek I read it with a bias and the bias that I have is how do we have a discussion come out of the classical period for me that is actually somewhere between the seventh and eleventh century", "interesting literature on sexual diversity. I'm just going to be in this sort of, you know the early period.\" It was almost impossible to have a conversation that was not going to encoded with some of the biases that everybody assumed it was okay. The Quran assumes...not assumes that slavery is okay but the Quran does not prohibit the institution of slavery so it talks about how to treat slaves.", "There are 13 ways to come out of slavery and only one way supposedly to get into it. So if you look at the math, it should kind of cancel itself out. But I mean, if you're born of slave ancestry, you're adamant that we need to speak out against it in more specific terms. Right? So the notions of even how we would... Because we started this conversation about who gets to construct what it means to be a human being. Most of the philosophical discourse on who it is to be human beings is based on men.", "And then they would make exceptions and inclusions for women. So, what do you do with people who are like gender non-binary people? They don't even fit one or the other. How do we have a conversation about human dignity when we have to continually reinterrogate who it is that this human being? For me, it just means... Like I was talking with you, it means that's the obligation that I have in all of my 65 arthritic years towards the future", "towards the future. In other words, I want to contribute to a conversation that is not intimidated by difference and I did not find to my satisfaction that each of them were able to maintain that level in their conversations about Karama. That some of them also slipped into juxtaposition of some things as better than others but it's good for me because then I can this book here Domestic Violence and Islamic Traditions", "if you've actually read it. This is a very difficult book to read because it's based on that verse 434, and she basically gives the evidence that all of the interpreters in the classical period believed that it was okay to beat your wives, and they only differ in terms of degree. And this is why the book was very difficult to read. But what I take from this book is when she outlines responses to that over time, what happens in the modernist period, what", "our own period and at certain points we tended to defer so much to justifying our arguments only on the basis of the arguments that have been constructed by the intellectuals or believers before us, as such we enter into a vortex out which we can never get. And then she said but there is another voice that does not wait, sort of like what you say, you don't wait to have permission. You know? So I mean this is the kind of stuff I put on Twitter, you know,", "your permission to believe in Allah. I am not even asking you, if you don't like it I will just block you.\" So the idea that we all have some type of agency this would be insha'Allah part of the gift that I will try to return to the conversation because so far in looking at discussion about Karama I was not completely satisfied that they were consistent with other aspects of the fundamental", "we all will return to that source and that's what makes us human, and not whether we walk on two legs you know whether we have a penis let's be literal because even how they designate what is the highest ideal includes some of them saying because you have a beard. And I mean I have a few hairs let's honest but I'm never going to have a beer right? So we have to strip back those conversations to see them for what they were this is my respect for my tradition", "But we do not have to be bounded by those conversations. And the reason we do no have to bounded by these conversation is because a law is without boundaries and if you truly wish to have relationship with Allah then we're going to have to challenge not only the boundaries that are put upon us by others with ill intent but also the boundaries which we put on ourselves as a consequence becomes a tool that we use against others So for me Islam is still living tradition, the discourse is still alive", "and there's new territory. And one of the, you know, one of graces of my life is being given the opportunity to be able to look at an issue that is so problematic that sometimes we don't even know how to have a conversation and to make that conversation simply as everyday ordinary as today I'm going to wear blue shoes and tomorrow I'm gonna wear green. You know? To simply demystify it.", "We do all attribute to ourselves humanity, and yet we all mean something different. Can we have a conversation that will embrace all of that diversity? Yes, we can if we stop thinking that conversation is going to end up with black and white, that there ever gonna be just one answer to any question. Thank you very much. This will be the last question. Oh, we got more questions. It's ready to be done. Hi.", "Yesterday after the prayer you told me that you liked me better with a headscarf and that reminded of a joke I once made with my mother. My mother is covered, and one day I walked into the living room completely veiled and I said do I look pretty? She said you looked gorgeous! You look so beautiful! And I said okay that's why I'm not wearing a head scarf and she got very pissed off because of that", "of that. My mother was 11 when she decided to wear a headscarf and she still had sisters who were putting perms in her hair, putting on makeup and it wasn't a conscious decision for her and I truly believe that it was in fact her decision but I still get frustrated because", "Why are Muslim women wearing a headscarf?", "When you look at Europe, when you look France. Recently a Muslim woman wearing a niqab has been cut by her finances because she can't find a job and the Netherlands tells her that it's her own damn fault that she can not find a good job because she is covering her face but it's your choice so how can we deal with this? I hope I didn't say you looked better but I definitely remember telling you that you look good", "And you look good without it, and so that wasn't a... But you looked noticeably different. For those of you who have not had the experience with it I have had people... Because I don't wear my scarf all the time I'm old enough now that I don' t have to justify that with anybody but I do remember when I first started to come out of it I was like a little bit tenuous especially in public spaces and I sort of asked people not to take pictures of me", "the table with the Prime Minister so of course there's a million cameras but you know I sat at that table with a longtime colleague of mine he didn't really recognize me, you know. So you do look different with it and without it you know and so some people just doesn't work they put it on they really look not too good. And some people they take it off and they look not to good. So as far as looking good part that was the thing you look noticeably", "I didn't even remember what you looked like without it when I saw you, but I know that I did not recognize you as someone who came in with hijab. And that's why I said something about it, but not in terms of better, I hope. So the politics of hijab... By the way there is a book called The Politics of the Hijab which I think is very good. It was especially written after the first ban in France. The politics of the hijab, in fact in my book, the second book, I call it the sixth pillar because it used to be", "about Islam unless you had a conversation about Muslim women's dress. You know, and I told that joke sort of lightly about going to the mosque and having voluntarily chosen to cover my body and therefore the men there was like oh well, you're in the door already. I tell it as a joke but the thing is because of the politics you are not yet at a place where", "the multiple layers of conversation that go along with it. So in other words, there is a personal level like your mom at the age of 11 and there's a personal for yourself to go in a different direction but that is not the only story. And when we try to reduce the story of hijab to only one of its stories,", "of experiences and eventually until this is me because maybe I you know into too much into sci-fi I do believe that the way in which we are interacting with the planet Earth there will come a time when the fabrics that we use now what actually becomes toxic to our bodies and if you notice there is a rise and like I myself have been diagnosed as having an allergy to wheat and meanwhile I ate cake my whole life", "And there are people who actually have trouble with certain fabrics, certain smells. Do you know these? The people whose sensitivities to smells are so great they cannot go into most places and how to find products that don't perpetuate these kinds of toxins and everything. So I believe that human beings are going to move to a place where what we currently use is not going to be something that our bodies will be able to manage.", "to be the Muslim discourse. I mean, I say it jokingly because we are so attached to trying to find again the bottom line, the black-white part of this conversation. There has to be one right and one wrong position. We're so busy trying to define it as a consequence, we do not have the generosity to accept that there are so many competing conversations going on all at the same time and that ultimately", "makes no difference. So the first time I decided that I was going to stop wearing my hijab, by the way it was when I first started growing dreadlocks which I cut them last year because they were all the way down in my back and my neck got tired. The first time that I decided I was gonna go without a hijab I was very disappointed that long-time friends and colleagues of mine did that same thing. They said oh he looks so good you know? I was really disappointed but that was because I was still in transition", "I came to the place to realize, I actually prefer to wear it even if not all of the time. I then entered into a new phase. I wear it when I want to and take it off when I wanted to. And that is now complete in terms of my understanding and agency. But before that time, I thought when I take it of, that means I'm no longer wearing hijab. That's the end of story. You know? I didn't know how to exercise rights in between. So to give people choices to be able to wear or not wear", "again, it's just like with regard to the jihadist movement. There are systemic problems with regard othering that are attached to this and we cannot dismiss that reality of that level of conversation just because we either make a personal choice or have the right to make that choice or we were denied the right", "body and the idea of the integrity of that body is the furthest thing from our living reality yet. When I first started covering and having public speaking, people would talk about you know the freedom of not covering everything and I just thought my ancestors came here as slaves and the freedom for them to cover was denied them so there is no single reality of what constitutes freedom right? So when we get into this conversation", "never that simple and that the appreciation of the struggle that one person may go through is not the only thing but it is an important thing we need to step back to the point where it will be systemic so that no matter how i enter into a room or i walk upon the earth that I will not only be treated with dignity, but I will treat others for dignity. And we're not there yet and so for", "in the United States, I'm definitely going to have my scarf on because it's gonna become political. So all of these conversations are happening at the same time. All of them are in rapid motion and the moment that you pick one of them and stop the cycle from going around, you haven't resolved the problem. You've only dealt with it in a minor way. There is a lot more that goes on in terms of a woman having control over her body, having the dignity of her body clothed or unclothed. There's a lot and it's not limited to Muslims.", "Thank you so much, Professor Wadud. I didn't want to interrupt you but I also know that you need to be... Oops! I think we have a follow-up appointment but let me say a few things because", "I think you really, there were a few notes that I took of things you said that I thought whoa this is like...I couldn't say it better but one of the things is you said conversation can embrace diversity and i think you have given testimony to that. That is really possible and that is really something that is so", "at Aaltria really want. It's about embracing diversity and as I bluntly say in very Dutch way, you have a thousand flowers bloom this is exactly what you showed us about also being so convincing about that as we say in many different ways the binary is a problem it's the mindset that forces us to think in either or positions that we encounter in our day-to-day work", "day-to-day work in so many different ways. So I think, um, in that respect, I think your conversation has really been a moving conversation, I thought. Really moving in... it has moved the hearts and minds but certainly mine, but i'm sure it has move the minds and the heart of people here and I could see it and we could hear it. So thank you for inspiring us in that", "And I move myself also. Being a non-Muslim, being agnostic but always being curious and having Muslims in my family and Christians in my familly and relating to the difference so i think in that respect also your presentation here has been inspiring no doubt for all of us", "So, without further ado because there are so many things one could say but I know you have to go. There is one...there are a few gifts I would like to give you on behalf of that. But one I want to show you because I think there is no-one in this room who deserves this. No and it's not about deserving, it's about being appropriate. This is a very mundane gift I would say", "century novelist in the Netherlands called Belle van Zuyler. It's in Dutch but it says, which means I have no talent for subservience and I think this is perfect model I would say fits with you. Thank you I will tell you when people ask me about it what does that say? And here are a few of the publications", "you might appreciate. And I would like to invite all of you, because you can see here Adria has a wonderful collection of the books some of whom you indeed mentioned and who show the whole difference between Hadith and Quran and interpretation question and quest that is ongoing so you are welcome to stay", "to stay there is one photo opportunity now with Amina but afterwards you can say that will be fresh coffee made for you so all of you who want to be in the picture please come forward and our photographer" ]
amina_wadud/Gender Equality in Islam by amina wadud_ymbuLu0-NU4&pp=ygURQW1pbmEgV2FkdWQgaXNsYW0%3D_1742931751.opus	[ "the prophetic sunnah and had begun to recede. An men from their scholarship It's not like I'm trying t is a negative, but there of presuming only the male construction of his love an", "Not only does it exclude us, but also it shapes what is our role in accordance to what is seen as primary from the perspective of men's experiences with Islam, with Allah, through the Prophet ﷺ, in their construction of Islam. And so we become not only secondary, but we sometimes become a utility for men's striving to achieve the excellence of their Islam." ]
amina_wadud/Heschel _ Wadud - Why a multifaith context for fem_2KiOBfWNu2Q&pp=ygURQW1pbmEgV2FkdWQgaXNsYW0%3D_1743320469.opus	[ "I want to tell you something about working with issues of justice, about race class and gender in a multi-faith context where there are actually vibrant religions in addition to Judaism, Christianity and Islam. Because that was when it became clear", "when it became clear to me that this schism that we feel between the need for self-critique and at the same time, the protectiveness that we over the sacred traditions that we do adhere to and we love and we admire. That those things cannot be said with equal articulation in every setting unless you are", "you are in a setting where faith comes first.", "It's always been the reconstructionist movement. It has always been in the forefront of intellectual dynamism in Jewish life." ]
amina_wadud/History of Islam in US - lecture by Dr Amina Wadud_JarNla9rc-4&pp=ygURQW1pbmEgV2FkdWQgaXNsYW0%3D_1742905996.opus	[ "had known Islam for some 1,000 years when the transatlantic slave trade was going on and estimates are as high as one-third of the Africans who were enslaved were from Muslim background. We have records not only of very learned persons and persons very high in the ranking of their communities like Prince you know", "Prince, you know they have a movie out now called The Prince of Islam or something. It's about a prince who there is war between his tribe and another tribe and he gets captured and he get sold into slavery but in his tribe he was the head of the tribe people who had been learned in Islam and other languages", "in America was written by a slave. Someone who had been a scholar and a teacher, was also in this chaos that went on at the time of slavery, was captured and sold off into slavery. And in the context of the Americas they wanted to say that these people who came from Africa were all savages. Not only could", "of reading and writing but the reality was specifically with regard to Muslims who were captured into slavery you had people who were actually literate and who are conversant in more than one language, people who already monotheists that is believed in one God as Muslims. But this discourse that went on in slavery was that we have to teach these savages to believe", "Muslims have already been practicing monotheism in Africa when they were enslaved. We have records, especially of exceptional Muslim slaves but also ordinary Muslim slaves. Unfortunately Islam did not survive American slavery.", "were forced to convert to Christianity or to give up as much of the ways that they were practicing from their birth. I don't know if you've ever seen the movie Roots, but it talks about... It shows you the character who was not raised to eat pork because it is forbidden and then they served him pork", "you will get one chance to eat and you will whatever is served for you to eat. And eventually after days and days, if that is the only thing to eat even the Quran says that you may eat it. So the ability to maintain the practices of their religion was interfered with by slavery itself. And many Muslims could equate the oneness of God with the onness of God in Christianity", "a quiet period where there was no activity until the late 1800s, the early 19th...the late 19th century when we begin one of three immigration periods that affect the number of Muslims in America today. The first immigration movement consisted mostly", "and a few South Asians, but mostly of Arabs. And they were not all Muslim, number one. Number two, the overwhelming majority of them were not interested in Islam. By that I mean they came to America to become Americans, read white and read not-Muslim.", "which you should read America as for the moment. They even changed their names, if their name was too complicated an Arabic name they would simplify it. They would make it into Joe and John and Sue and Ann. They will simplify their names to names that had no relation to their original pronunciation.", "intermarried especially arab men coming to america were very interested in marrying white american women they did not make an effort to establish any places of worship or even to talk about their faith as a movement this was the first immigration period and people who are simply", "The second immigration wave, which was in the middle part of the 20th century involved Muslim students. Students coming from South Asia that is not yet India think about the middle of the part of 20th Century was not yet Pakistan, not yet Bangladesh.", "were the largest population of immigrants. Arab students also would join, but they would join a little later. South Asian students came first and the South Asian who came with a sense of their identity as Muslims and did not have plans most of them did not had plans to remain in America They were simply going to take advantage", "university education or development of professional skills and then the plan was to return to their own native countries but the vast majority of them ended up staying in America some came back but many stayed in America and eventually brought their families and eventually bought other members of community and the second wave", "of identity and they acted like Muslims, and sought to fulfill certain aspects of their identity as Muslims. So for example in the university they establish what is still going on today known", "On every campus, students are allowed to organize on the basis of their interests including their religious identity. That is a part of the freedom of religion so that they're on campus, they can form a Muslim club and they did and they called it the Muslim Student Association. It's more than 50 years old now in America", "and majority countries mostly south asia some african and some arab and some southeast asian and this consciousness of their identity meant that they would lobby the university to have a space that they could go through to pray the five prayers while they were in classes so they lobbied", "to have space for prayer and this was the beginning of the movement of Muslim civil society in earnest because in fact when those students graduated, and as I said many of them did not return, when they graduated they continued with the Muslim Student Association for a number of years while students came in and said but you're not even students", "another kind of association and they organized what is called ISNA, the Islamic Society of North America. And the Islamic society of North American is still going on today but it had two branches Muslim Community Association and Muslim Student Association. And Muslim Student Associations was involved with the activities of Muslims surviving as Muslims on college and university campuses", "Association was forming mosques and libraries in schools for the community. And those two branches of activity continue until today, not just under ISNA or the Islamic Society of North America because by now we have all kinds of other societies but the beginning of it was in the middle part of the 20th century", "who still identified as Muslim, unlike the first wave of immigrants who coincidentally were Muslim but they didn't have any Islamic activity. They didn't form mosques. The only time when that first migration became interested in their Muslim identity was at the time of death. When Muslims died, they wanted to be buried as Muslims so one of the earliest institutions", "and then we moved into building the mosques. Between the second wave, and the third wave of Muslim migration Islamic interaction with the mainstream American society began in earnest that only was the Muslim community associated in building mosques and Islamic centers and libraries and halal butcher shops", "and the students were having their activities which included an interaction with other students who were not Muslim in a kind of awareness program, which again is still going on today. The next immigration wave in about the 1970s so the Muslim students about 1930 to 1950 or 60 and then 1960-1980 this third wave where Muslims who would flee from their countries", "countries because of a new secular regime that would oppress them as Muslims in this period we began to have the first mosque that were built from the ground up before that time Muslims would simply take and abandon a building or even a small house and they would convert it into a mosque by", "and turn that property into a mosque. But the architecture, the building of a mosque from the ground up begins in earnest during this third period. And so altogether there is an increase in activity by Muslims for Islam. One of the most important dimensions of this involves", "The fact that children were being born in America to Muslim parents and we did not have school structures set up for them, although education is free and compulsory. But they wanted their children to learn more about Islam. And there were two phases to how we addressed this problem. One is what we used to call the weekend school.", "Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, Friday. And then on the weekend, on Saturday and Sunday we would gather the children in the Islamic centers or the Muslim centers and we would have what they called the weekends school so your kids had two schools and my children didn't like it but that's what we did. So they would have their regular classes and then they would", "Arabic, all this we did this I taught in the weekend schools and also my kids went to the weekend school. Just a little side story, I was just in Malaysia and a woman came up to me and said I used to teach your kids in the Islamic School when you were in Richmond Virginia. My kids are all adults now, do you remember me from that? So yeah it was very heavy activity which Muslim parents took part of", "And then we realized that maybe we had some issues with some aspects of the main education system.", "not want their children to go to mainstream schools, but again education is free and compulsory so they were able to take funds from the government in order to buy curriculum material for their children and teach their children at home. And their children would then pass certain exams to show that they had progressed from one level to another. Muslims began to use this homeschool model.", "programs and the home school programs, uh...and the weekend program we eventually came to a place where we established Muslim private schools. And Muslim private are in very high demand because the level of education is very high and the level discipline is also very high but the number of students per teacher is very low and the quality of education then is very good. But like everything else", "and you couldn't always get the funds just from the people whose children went there. So funding activity is a major part of being a Muslim in America because you can't do anything without funds. There is some debate about whether or not we should get funds exclusively for Muslims in America, or we should fund for Muslims", "There's some debate about it, but both paths are going on. That is funds come from abroad and funds come local communities and local community fundraising activity. When we get to the 21st century then, we reach the place where Islam is the fastest growing religion in America.", "you are free to be whatever religion you choose in America. We do not collect census data on religion, so even if we quote unquote count people, we cannot count the number of Muslims accurately because you do not have to declare religion. In fact, people cannot ask you about your religion. You can tell them or you can cover a certain way", "way but you do not have to mention it and they cannot penalize you because you are Muslim in fact if you even suspect that you have been penalized because you were Muslim you have grounds to take them to court so you cannot be prejudiced against because you", "organizations, companies and institutions. If the organization does not permit them to cover they can file against the company for lack of religious freedom or the freedom to express their religion so we're not like France where we try to force women to take the clothes off in fact we have many more proactive cases of Muslim organizations intervening", "intervening into companies because the company even whispered something that sounded like it might be a prejudice. So we have very many active civil liberties cases in defense of Muslims and Muslims' right to their identity, and to their practice. And then September 11th happened. At the time I was already a university professor", "professor teaching Islamic studies in a you know mainstream state-run secular University and just like any other violent act that was committed everybody was in shock", "And so people began to act very viciously towards other Muslims. Hate crimes, including the murder of some Sikh members because Americans are stupid. They don't know the difference between a Sikh and a Muslim. Hate crime were on the rise. Destruction of private property, things thrown at the mosque destroying windows and all these things increased after September 11th", "And there was a concerted effort on behalf of both Muslim communities and Islamic studies professors, be they Muslim or not Muslim. But there was the concerted efforts to distinguish between persons who committed acts of violence heretofore called terrorism but it wasn't called terrorism before", "Muslims who created, who performed acts of violence against innocent civilians and Islam in general. And this level of awareness meant that there was a proliferation of activity in civil society. That is, there were more interfaith meetings, there are more invitations from churches for Muslims to come and speak about Islam.", "a member of the community center so it could be either the imam or we would have outreach persons in the community Center for university professors I was very busy and then Ramadan came when I finally realized I can't give my whole life to clarifying Islam for people I have a family and I have", "Despite that, or maybe because of that, certain good things came about in the context of Islam and civil society in America. Number one, more Islamic or Muslim-based organizations were formed. There was an increase in libraries and research centers, just centers in general,", "activities that Muslims themselves would organize and run. There was an increase in outreach, Muslims did more talking to other people who were not Muslim in all kinds of forum, and Muslims became a little less concerned with whether or not they built a mosque than they did in whether or", "women who didn't wear hijab, even if they were Muslim. Including men who did not pray, even though they are Muslim. including people who were not Muslim so they created more civil society organizations that brought more Muslims in as well as brought more other people in specifically to talk about Islam and actually the aspect of Islam in America is still growing", "most of them after September 11 than you can imagine because on the one hand, the attacks on the World Trade Center and the Pentagon were horrific but what happened afterwards in the context of a free and civil society really horrified a lot of people. And they were insistent on getting more information. It can't be that bad or why", "more information about Islam and more people came into Islam. It was very interesting to see, and Muslims became not so insulated. The insulation was we have one personality when we're the doctor and we're in this office, and then when we go to the mosque, we have another personality. We have this bifurcated personality.", "never seen it and then you go to the office in hello mrs. green yes I'm your gynecologist so we have this bifurcated kind of person that had to be addressed a little bit more coherently after September 11th because people couldn't hide being Muslim behind their professionalism which is what a lot of people used to do", "September 11 was race. Not that it hadn't already been a factor. In the 1930s, when Muslim immigrants began to talk about Islam to persons from America, of course the first person they talked to would be white Americans and mostly they didn't want to hear. White American conversion I'll talk about in a minute. Mostly they didn' t want to", "the African American community and the African-American community embraced Islam in such rapid numbers that today 44% of the Muslims in America are African American they may be Muslim by choice like myself or all of my children who were not Muslim by", "but the conversation about Islam and African American spirituality began in the early part, early to mid-part of the 20th century. And Islam became the first viable religious alternative for African Americans. Before that time you were either Christian or you were nothing. By the time Islam began to spread", "and there was a very strong movement of people accepting Islam. Think about the story of Malcolm X, that's typical what was going on. And even if the persons were not Muslim they knew someone who was Muslim and they respected their wishes not to eat pork and go pray and fast and all of that. It was very common in the black community and African American community to accept that people would be Muslims", "you were Christian or you had no religion. Now there are African American Buddhists and Hindus and Sikhs and everything, I mean maybe not Sikhs, I don't know how that works but Jews, I think African Americans have become a part of every religion now but until African Americans came to Islam they were only Christians or they were nothing so Islam was a very important part in the transformation", "civil rights movements because a lot of people blame Christianity for slavery, because there are verses in the Bible that talks about enslaving people of another skin color and in rejection of that part of Christianity or of the Bible they didn't want to reject religion altogether. Islam became a very strong alternative. So all this comes together at September 11th", "And one of the things that becomes very evident was that immigrants came to America because they were aspiring to be white Americans.", "life of white Americans, moved to the suburbs blah blah blah. After September 11th Muslims were persecuted for being Muslim in fact they were more persecuted than African-Americans who are persecuted for blackness and this was an interesting thing because what it showed is that within the context of the Muslim community race relations was in a really bad way", "actively interchange with African Americans, even African Americans who had been Muslim for decades. And this came to rather a crisis which we have chosen to address a little bit more head on in my mind we're still not doing as much as needs to be done but we know that we can no longer ignore it because it's the chicken story you know when they came to the town for", "and so you didn't help. And then eventually they come for another person, we say well that's not my family, and you didn'y help, and when it came to you there was nobody to defend you. Well that's what happened in our community. We didn't fight against racism in the Muslim community, and guess what? It got turned against Muslims. So I remember coming in from one of my many travels for example where the profiling for airport security and immigration all that went up very high", "And so you're going to be chosen randomly because you're Muslim or you have a Muslim name. Or you look like you come from South Asia. And I was literally coming from Southeast Asia, and I noticed that everybody who was African American who looked like they were not Muslim went to one line, and ours was in a line with a bunch of Indians and Pakistanis. I thought these are not my people, those are my people over there! They're like no honey, you're a Muslim, you have to go on the Muslim line.", "So the persecution increased, but again Muslims fought back because of the way the laws are written. And it has evened out a little bit with the exception of the fact that the Patriot Act is written as a kind of policy of exceptionalism and you should know this,", "under the interest of security. Security, we learned that word from Israel. Security means I get to do whatever I want to do and you don't get to it and if I accuse you of doing it then I can do whatever i want to you so we have encountered this in the Patriot Act which is why there are 70 prisoners in Guantanamo Bay and most of them never been accused of anything and so I don't agree with these policies", "and we fight against them on constitutional grounds but the problem does exist it is not pervasive it's not like everybody anytime you do anything you have to be afraid that they're going to cart you off to jail because there are millions of million six or seven or eight million muslims in america and so far you know we only have 60 or 70 in guantanamo bay that's 60 or 72 mini but at least it's", "a battle between first amendment rights uh in between fear after september 11 is going on and muslim profiling continues to go on which simply raises the level of awareness and the general educated population of americans um and so they say it cannot be what you're saying they pursue from our freedom of information", "that there's been some double standards. And the next thing, you have more allies. We have more interfaith discussions. We had more organizations specifically to address inequalities before the law and infringements of our civil liberties. And in that respect, while September 11th had I think a very negative impact, it also had some silver lining", "pursued. I'm going to end here, just keep in mind that I am American, I was born in America my parents were slaves or descendants of slaves but I'm not here to defend American foreign policy or even to describe or define it because mostly I'm in disagreement with it so if you have a question about Islam and Muslims in America don't let's make it be the", "disagree with but that is not an aspect of what I discussed in this talk and therefore you know I hope that you keep your questions along the lines of Muslims in the context of civil society in America thank you very much" ]
amina_wadud/_Imam Mwanamke_ Amina Wadud_ kuongoza sala ya Ijum_4stCB8BW6eQ&pp=ygURQW1pbmEgV2FkdWQgaXNsYW0%3D_1742942747.opus	[ "Mwana mke wa kwanza kuongoza sala ijuma chini marekani na uingereza muaka 2005 na 2008.", "kuhusu mada mbalimbali kama vile umuhimu wa wanawake katika Quran pia nafasi na haki za muanamche katika uislam. Alizaliwa katika familia ya wachungaji wa Kristo, wa madhehebu ya Methodisti katika jimbo la Maryland, Marekani. Hata hivo kabla kuingia kwenye uislim amina alikubali na kufuota dini ya budha.", "Katika chukiku cha Michigani Marekani kwa masomo ya kiarabu na kiislam. Pia alisoma kiarambu katika chuki kuo cha Marekanikairo Misri pamoja pia na mafunzo ya Kuroani natafsiri katika Chukiku Alhazard Misri Amina alianza utafiti wa kitabuchake kwa maana ya kutafsiriko Kuroanikama mwanamke tangumwaka 1189", "1925 na 1928 aliziwa gumzu duniani kwa kusalisha sala ejumaa na kufanya hutuba dunia nzima ilistusho na jambo hili. Abapo, ilivunje mikwe ki Islam na watu wengi hawa kumjua mwanamke huyu ila walijua historia ya kusalisa sala ejumaa akiwa ni mwanameke. Ndomana leo tumetaka umjuwe zaidi na kwasasa ameamua kuishi Indonesia.", "Mwisho msikiti wa wanawake peke ya uchi ni marikani.", "Mwanzilishi Husna Maznav aliyambia BBC kuwa Nia haikuwa kushindana na misikiti mingine. Bali ni kuwapa wanawake mahali ambapo wanaweza kukua wakiuwa wanahamasishwa na kuezeshwa kama wanawoke.", "Jambu hili lilitokia mwake fumbili na kuminatano lakini halikuwa maalofu kutoka na hasa na situesheni ya jambo lenyewe. Na halikuzua sana gumzo kwenye mitandao ya kijamii kwasababu likualina wakusanya wanawake ko wanawaki tofauti na lile likualiki wa kusanya wana wake na wanaume na muanamche akiwasalisha wanaumee." ]
amina_wadud/_Imam Mwanamke_ Amina Wadud_ Kutoka kufasiri Quran_z5sF47tmhsE&pp=ygURQW1pbmEgV2FkdWQgaXNsYW0%3D_1742917553.opus	[ "كريم زينب اونلاين تي في الليمو ناماريفا", "As-salamu alaykum wa rahmatullah. As-salaamu Alaykum Wa Rahmatullah O Allah, please bless us this day Bless us in all our efforts and our service to you", "Kwa mtazama wa wanawake kuhusu madambali mbali kama vile umuimu wa wanowake katika Quran pia nafasi na haki za mwanamche katika Wislam.", "Amina alikubali na kufuata dini ya budha. Amina wadud anashahada ya udaktari katika chukiku cha Michigani Marekani kwa masomo ya kiarabu na kiislam. Pia alisoma kiarambu katika Chukiku Cha Marekanini huku Cairo Misri pamoje pia na mafunzo ya Kur'ani na tafsiri katika Chu Kiku cha Al Hazar Misri.", "Kwa maana ya kutafsiri koruani kama mwanamke tango muaka 1189.", "Sala egjuma akiwa ni mwana amke. Ndo mana leo tumetaka umjiwe zaidi na kwasasa hameamua kuishi Indonesia na hameomua kutumia jina la lady imam kunye mitanda wa kijamii. Lakini badu waminani muislam na anendelea kuendesha shoguli mbalimbali za kidawa kunye mittandao na makongamanu mbalimbali.", "Mwanzilishi Husna Maznav aliyambia BBC kuwa Nia haikuwa kushindana na misikiti mingine. Bali ni kuwapa wanawake mahali amba wakitia.", "Mahali ambapo wanaweza kukua wakiuwa wanahamasishwa na kuwezeshwa kama wanawake Jambu hili lilitokia mwaka F-2 na 15 Lakini halikuwa maalufu kutoka na hasa na situesheni ya jambo lenyewe Na halikuzua sana gumzo kwenye mitandao ya kijami Kwasababu likualina wakusanya wanawaki ko wanawaken", "Kiwa kusanya wanawake na wanaume. Na mwanamche akiwasalisha wanaumee. Kama uja subscribe, akisha una subscribe. Minahasa ni Yusuf." ]

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