[
  {
    "file": "amina_mccloud/A Conversation-Dr_ Aminah McCloud and Dr_ Abdullah_kYusYGhdpi0&pp=ygUVQW1pbmFoIE1jQ2xvdWQgIGlzbGFt_1742898307.opus",
    "text": [
      "strengthening families and communities. And so we'd like to welcome all of you from wherever you have come from for attending, for tuning in. And we hope to start this conference with a short conversation with one of our elders Dr. Amina McLeod who is the professor of religious studies and director of Islamic world studies at DePaul University.",
      "contributed in the past and last year to the conference, and in other ways she's contributed greatly to our efforts. So we're very appreciative and grateful for all of her contributions. And we definitely appreciate her wisdom when it comes to trying to frame the conversations that we hope to have during this particular weekend insha'Allah. So Dr McLeod I'd like to welcome you.",
      "important for us to be very concerned about insensitive to what sort of questions you think are important to have answered or to be asked, etc. Etc. So the floor is yours and I'll try to interject whenever I feel that's necessary. I have looked at the schedule and I think it's a wonderful set",
      "of workshops and I don't know small conversations. And it seems to me that they fall in three categories. One is our concerns we have with family, marriage and divorce. The other is a set of concerns we",
      "And another set really regards our, I don't want to call it interfaith dialogue because it's not just faiths that are interacting. But they are people from different faiths bringing values, interacting on social issues, social concerns, whether they be domestic or foreign. So I kind of see those three categories.",
      "uh there may be more but i think that they are very very um interesting um and we've talked about this before islam in america is just coming so to speak um and that we're not",
      "parts of other cultures. We have a unique set of experiences here which add to that wonderful rich tapestry of Islam in the world and as we call through sources, whether we're calling",
      "from other schools of Islamic learning around the world. That what we have to do now is see what of that philosophically and ideologically, we can use for the 21st century where we are. Right. And by we exactly who would you mean when you say that we have these things? I think that any Muslim has access they got to a little work but",
      "but i think that the those who have chosen to do islamic studies have got to turn their their research their eye toward okay it's nice that i learned about al-ghazali but you know hey that's nice but algos ali is not living in 21st century chicago you know uh and what about the woman that taught him but that's a different issue you know just",
      "you know, just side issues. But what of what he said? Whether he's being the right hand of the king or he's been the philosopher kind of in retreat, one of what is it can I use to piece together a guidance for the 21st century? I don't think that our learning audience knows",
      "that tafasir is why and that the men and women engaging in it are doing the best they can but they're still within their own context. I mean we're going to do it and are doing it as we attempt to understand the Quran and move, well we gotta see what we're doing. So that's",
      "family lives, I think it is very critical to realize we have embarked on something very interesting. In that in other times we would have married for example men and women our families knew, met at college this, that and the other but now we have some more requirements one of which is they be Muslim",
      "that we don't really know them in this strange situation. And to ask people to come to know each other after they've made a legal contract is even stranger, you know? So we have to take all of that into consideration and realize that we're kind of walking a hybrid. We have a Western notion of love and compassion",
      "and then there's the other world understanding of status, economic support. So we're kind of bridging two worlds. Yes right yeah so what it sounds like to me is that there are multiple challenges in any given conversation naturally",
      "spoken and relate to of course power relationships between people they can be based upon our sexual differences, based upon economic disparities or class differences. Yes. And if those particular issues are not sort of fleshed out then we technically I guess you would say",
      "hope that we can create a lasting peace or a lasting harmony. Would you say that's the good way? You mean inside of the family? Well, inside of The Family, right? Inside of the community, all of that, yes. What I'm saying is that you gotta work at it in different ways. Early in African American history, it was understood that African American women had a greater chance of being educated and employed than African American men.",
      "American men. So you had women who were teachers marrying men who were pipefitters or plumbers at this time, but those men didn't understand that as power disparity or contention. Good point. Yes. Right? So now we're in an even more strange situation where African-American",
      "city across this nation are being carted off to jail you know is and i mean at even younger and younger ages so what is happening in an interesting for me kind of genocide it is that the women have got to regroup so what are we going to now use as the balance yes right",
      "year we actually had a panel related to um incarcerating or sort of re-entry uh formerly incarcerated muslims back into the community um of course that itself is going to remain a major i guess you say concern in our conferences this year we don't have that people panel because we wanted to expand the theme make it a bit broader and hopefully deal with some issues in such a way that",
      "such a way that eventually they may address this particular crisis that does exist with regards to incarceration. But at any rate, there is definitely I guess the couple of panels related to marriage one panel is on the topic polygyny another panel related to just the general reasons why individuals should get married or generally do get married and perhaps suggestions",
      "of reasons why they rather should get married, rather than objectifying one another. And we've seen a rise in tension between men and women not just among African American community or Black American community but even in our world now because of feminism and other things like that where it seems there's a lot of competition",
      "It hasn't really been that serious of a challenge for the Black community when it comes to feminism. But what we do see developing is, although maybe a fringe concern but there are a number of sisters who have attempted started to talk about the importance of men being men and part of that is men actually taking on their proper financial responsibilities which usually",
      "as a result of having better education and better opportunity, perhaps in being a bit more creative about how they actually earn their money. And so issues that come up in relationships like, you know, oh, your mom doesn't obey me. So the suggestion becomes, okay, well it will be easier for me to obey you if you actually did your job as a man or if you'd actually heard acting as a",
      "problems in terms of educational disparity between Black men and Black women, and especially nowadays is probably even much more significant. It is. How do we approach that particular conversation? Well, I think it's going to require, first of all, a lot of work. But as long as the law lets us open our eyes every day, we can go to work on it. Yeah, exactly. But I think that you're right. You're absolutely right.",
      "absolutely right and one of the uh reasons being given for polygyny is that they're not enough available men but there are available men, but if you only look in your backyard you're probably going to come up with weeds. But that's the definition um I think that we have communities where",
      "portion of our community have taken over the center of our Community and those who acquire skills and education don't want to hang out so you don't see them yes you know they show up to give zakat you know or an edelfetzer you know but you don t see them short of that Juma",
      "The other part is that we are, we can't forget there were a subjugated community. Yes. And the subjugation was deliberate and by design. Can't give in to within reasonable limits of what does acting like a man mean? You have the best man on the planet who has God fearing and as a great job and as an accident",
      "an accident that's right you know does that mean you chuck him out the window because he has an accident he no longer has a job and trump took away the darn uh medical insurance you see what i'm saying you gotta look at a long term because you're not always gonna be young getting married so big older",
      "like she did when i married her yes no she put on 30 pounds you know he's his face dropped you know i mean all of these things come into play people's sexuality changes their eating habits change you know what they're interested in changes so you've got to look at marriage as a long-term investment",
      "However, one set of things. How we navigate the economic disparities? How we talk about in future conversations because they are serious and they're only going to get worse. Right. How do we learn how to be compassionate with another? That might you know as the old saying that might be your test it doesn't mean that you supposed to have every test",
      "but you know, you still have to learn how to be compassionate. I think the thing you said first, I'm thinking it was first, how we think about navigating that whole big thing. I've been involved in a number of court cases recently",
      "Where One of the things has to be is we have to own up to who we are If you're gonna be Muslim be muscle, yes I'm not saying that you have to change your name But then it's to be a legal name when show up at the masjid. That's the name you use Mm-hmm You know if you have a preferred and they put it as your middle name but if something happens to you Of the masjed and whatever family you've created need to be",
      "Need to be able. To access your stuff. To assess you. To assist with your burial. Whatever. That was one of the things I read. You know he's Mohammed in L.A. And he's Akbar in Atlanta. And something else in Detroit. Well who is he? Nobody really knows. And we have to stop that in our community. We have to make our communities",
      "our community responsible and accountable places right right right yes i agree that'll help a little bit people can't show up i'm not saying you know for mothers and fathers who've got kids waiting to be married i would suggest you do a background check but because you don't want your child marrying someone who's unsavory",
      "presents in one way, but is actually someone else. Yes, right. And is using the Muslim community to hide it. So we have some issues about which we just need to have conversations. We haven't had those conversations. Right. You know, while I was listening to you talk, another thought came to my mind and this... It's not something that actually is on the agenda",
      "agenda or on the program itself. But it has, it's a growing concern I guess that I have and it relates to the idea one, the idea that many Black Muslims seem to believe that authentic blackness is defined by poverty you're not being educated in the academy for instance",
      "instance, or in other ways. And there is somewhat of a rift I guess you would say between Muslim leaders who actually are identified with the academy or identify with being like, of course they go on amongst these so-called scholars quote unquote and a lot of people who may see themselves as real black people right?",
      "i'm sorry you know that was my point to get my point but again that's that's what i my sense is that that's where people sort of feel that those particular type of muslims or people black people in general see themselves that way i mean you have any thoughts on that well you know any community irrespective of its ethnicity has people at all levels of life it can't come",
      "can't come it can't work with everybody at the same level communities just don't work like that what communities have to fight to do is i think respect people in their at their various levels unless it's unsavory yes right um i was just real blank for you folks this doesn't gonna stick in my head forever um but i think that there is an abiding",
      "kind of unrealistic jealousy it's always uh been there um and that's unfortunate but that too is normal um but you have to to move to protect your soul you know if you open your soul",
      "to let all of those negative influences rule you, and you might as well hang it up and convert to Buddhism. Yeah. You know, because the nafs are an interesting set of whatever they are. Mm-hmm. And I think that a part of being Muslim is to be aware of them. Mm hmm. See them so to speak",
      "so to speak, when they're creeping around the edges and say, hey, how you doing? See you later. You know, kind of stuff because that's what's going on with these issues with well he went to school so therefore he thinks he's better than I am. Well he went",
      "learn this skill over here to do something for me i can't call abdullah ali to fix my pipes you see what i'm saying right and if i did it would be like me fixing them you know i need the expert one that's at a different level not another level a different of expertise to do that over there and i need to be able to trust him he needs to be honest",
      "I think it's that kind of reciprocal control that is absent in the larger society, which is why it's so hard for us to find a mirror. That is important but one of the things most important we don't talk about often is how do we protect our souls? Yes, right.",
      "know people think of the large aggressive physical incursions like what happened in new zealand but it's that inner you know protection and accountability and responsibility that is equally if not more so important yeah and i'm very glad really glad that you mentioned this part because um",
      "I've said certain things about our community, or I would say attempting to get members of our community to accept some sense of self-responsibility for their plights at certain times rather than constantly saying something. Just tell them that Amena said it and I'm repeating her. They know me for saying it. Yeah, well you legit. You're down.",
      "So yes, yeah. Yeah, you know and I understand it does mean a lot You know for your foot for certain people like who says it? It does quite a means a lot, you Know and you know And and and I don't like to tell people about my past you see me so and I think perhaps because I don' t tell people About my past they always get this impression of always I was born with this, you silver spoon in my mouth And I just always where I am, you now there's some people I think that way. Yeah",
      "Yeah, I worked hard. I did work hard. But the point I'm trying to make here is this, is that like for instance if you look at the Nation of Islam, like Louis Farrakhan and then you look of course Malcolm and others they were able to do this is that they themselves found it easy to both be critical of white people in the system and also be critical",
      "they themselves were traitors to their own race, right? And I'm just wondering why is it so difficult for non-members of the nation and others like that to do the same. What is it that we could potentially do to actually have similar type of appeal without having to make our people feel completely as if all of their problems are a result of something above them, right you see? Some of those problems are there's no doubt about it but not all of",
      "times we have fought so hard to master Arabic, to master the sources. And in that world it flows off your tongue and what it does is it glazes people over. It separates you from them. Yes. And that's not what you want",
      "well it's been a number of years ago now uh dedicated well we weren't dedicated we were asked to work with minister farrakhan on quranic knowledge you know now his job for his audience is to translate what we've taught him but in the process we had to learn to translate",
      "got to do. Yes. You know, is to talk about those things, hit people where they are and with what they know like their life's breath. Yes, right. And you know, and they will speak along with you about whatever the issue is. Black folks know that they're responsible for half the crap that happens to them. You",
      "around killing each other once your hands drop down to their knees you have to see what my call the police but that's a different issue um they have gotten their own parents so scared that they will not turn them in because now there is no longer",
      "age they're buying them the flat screen tvs and keeping the lights on in the water and the people are sitting back saying my social security won't cover it i'm not gonna live right yeah if they don't bring that money in here well you know we have solutions but they have to be worked upon and that's where uh frederick my husband belongs to this african-american muslim vets group",
      "And one of the things they're talking about, I said, you know, I mean, well, I didn't say he said, You know we went to war man fighting people that we didn't even know. Tell me we can get our grandchildren in order here. So it has to come from within. Yes, might require and hopefully lampposts have many sensitive",
      "sensitive conversations in the future. And people may not like, folks do not like to be called on their stuff. Yes, right. You know? That's the newest thing now. I'm not responsible for anything. Somebody did it to me. It's like reparations. And if you ask people, after you get your check in the mail, what are you going to spend it on? They're talking about a pot somewhere they can put all these checks and build something that's sustainable",
      "sustainable. The shoes they saw the pocketbook, I can get a car. You know? I mean it's what we've been reduced to without guidance. Yes right yeah. So I have one last question before we leave today. This relates to trying to bridge the divide between the Black community and what we generally like to refer to as the immigrant",
      "of them don't like to be called the immigrant community. Last year we had a panel on that divide and all panelists were Black Americans. This year, we have a special panel and mixed it up a bit so we actually have one Arab, one Indian, one of Arab descent, one white American brother as well. We plan to have a conversation",
      "a conversation to sort of, to hear, to have the audience hear from them their particular perspectives about the relationship between our various communities and what they believe to be the things that actually are making it difficult for us to communicate uh our messages clearly to one another. Right so um just some final thoughts about what you think about that particular panel",
      "It's going to be a sensitive conversation if it's an honest one. I think the term immigrant has come to be pejorative, meaning you don't know nothing, whether it's real or false, true or not. And what African Americans are saying is that you don' t know the history of this country. But immigrants typically don't",
      "survive. And if they learn the history of the country, it's either by accident or some personal design. We have chafed at their use of the civil rights lingo and said how dare you? You don't even know what this was about. If it wasn't for me and the 1964 Civil Rights Act, you wouldn't be here. It's that",
      "you haven't said thank you. You know, the whole thing South Africa was about. Own up to who helped you do X, Y and Z. On the other side, immigrants don't see African Americans taking advantage of this place. They can't see redlining the stuff about credit and the design. That is not obvious.",
      "Yes. Okay? It's something that they kind of have to be shown, and then their thing would be, look, why can't you figure a way around this? Why haven't you figured a way round this? So you have people looking at the same thing from two very different points of view. I think challenges to get them to be honest. They see our boys and girls.",
      "girls acting like they're pole dancers in the street. You see their kids taking off the scarves and everything else, like what is his name? Adnan Saeed and smoking pot during Ramadan talking about I'm going to put this joint out so I can go break fast. People are seeing the underbelly of each side but still trying to present",
      "and they have to have a ser no, they can't do that in that panel. But what you can do is lay out the contours and make a commitment to have future conversations right? Which perhaps we can do in a webinar. Inshallah, inshallah. You know I really do appreciate all of your wisdom and your direction and it's unfortunate that we can't have you there again. And well, I want to try my best next time around too.",
      "inshallah give all this life and shall not to make it you know so that that you can be there as a matter of fact, you know we I'm sorry. You should show this recording to your board. Yes. I will I would definitely they're going to see it and And so really really shall are looking forward to continuing to work with you So dr. Amina McLeod appreciate the time in and may Allah grant you she pop",
      "uh you know we're in cure to make you even make you stronger physically stronger you know and if not you know just leave you know this of course you know keep us in your prayers and looking forward to working with you in the future tell that bad boy of yours"
    ]
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  {
    "file": "amina_mccloud/Aminah McCloud and Nadeem Siddiqi _ MAS ICNA 2014_ke6KpqWVx1w&pp=ygUVQW1pbmFoIE1jQ2xvdWQgIGlzbGFt_1742897661.opus",
    "text": [
      "بسم الله الرحمن الرحيم الحمد لله رب العالمين الصلاة والسلام على أشرف الأنبياء والمرسلين السلام عليكم",
      "So we have changed the format of this session as we came on stage and Dr. McCloud had these great ideas like, hey you know what instead of these static speeches We'll do a couple introductory words but let's have a real conversation and let's get everybody involved so As we're doing his introductory remarks and as we are having this conversation right now",
      "We encourage each and every one of you to think of questions, something that's on your mind. And we're told there are folks with cards that are walking around. Write your question down. And should be able to collect that real time and discuss it on stage right away. So we hope to have a real conversation with the audience rather than just having a straight talk. Just to give you some time, a couple introductory remarks here so that we're all on the same page.",
      "This issue of justice, you know, is this something a side issue that we do because it's nice to do? Or is this the same thing or is this what is central to our faith? Something that is core to your Iman without which your IMAN would be incomplete. Allah SWT reminds us in Surah An-Nisa where He says",
      "O you who believe, stand out firmly for justice as witnesses to Allah even as against yourselves or your parents or your kin. Justice is not a side issue. You have to stand up for justice everywhere, for everyone.",
      "even if it's against yourselves or your parents. Can you imagine? You have to be just. And Allah SWT goes even beyond that, where He tells us in Surah Al-Ma'idah, where he says,",
      "Believers, be upright bearers of witness to Allah and do not let the enmity of any people move you to deviate from justice. Act justly. That is nearer to God-fearing. And fear Allah. Surely Allah is well aware of what you do. So in this second verse, Allah SWT is expanding that you have to be just even for your enemies. You cannot mistreat your enemies",
      "mistreat, if you are unjust to your enemies. You will be answerable for that on the day of judgment.\" When the Prophet started his mission and throughout his mission he said these are the downtrodden, these are folks who are oppressed. Did he say oh these are my Muslim brothers and sisters? These are people from my village, these",
      "He stood for justice, for every single person in the community. Just stop and pause and think about that for a second. You know when the issues happened overseas? When the bombardment of Gaza took place? It broke our hearts! We had marches on the streets! And it was very good. It was awesome.",
      "I hope we have more of those. We've been working very hard for the issue of Syria, for many different issues but when Ferguson happened, when the grand jury in New York came out and said yeah we're not going to do anything, when a 12 year old in Cleveland was shot down",
      "I ask you, I ask us are we participating in those? Is this still our issue or is this somebody else's issue? Is justice my issue as a Muslim or is justice now well it kind of depends right if the guy has",
      "comes from a certain background, if I have all of these preconditions and then it will be my issue. Be very, very honest. Be Very, very Honest because you know what? It is much better for us to ask this question today rather than standing before Allah tomorrow and have to answer that same question and perhaps we may not have the best of answers",
      "answers something to reflect on just a few thoughts so let this conversation going inshallah Salam alaikum I think that since we decided to have a conversation that we should do our best to put everything on an even keel and I think one of the questions",
      "not things changed, perhaps in the black community. With regard to a persistent and ever-present police existence where young black kids meet the police just as they do in Gaza and another places all day every day. We've not had the fundamentals of a conversation honestly so we can see",
      "we can see where communities stand. And in listening to some of the younger than I among you, I have heard lots of confusions, lots of how do I support for those who want to support and what is going on? And I think a part of our conversation today has",
      "systematic repression of peoples around the world. Injustices, be they in Ferguson or New York or Cleveland or Berkeley or somewhere else are no different than the injustices that go on in the occupied territories but what this system does is it divides and conquers",
      "and say no we see all of the oppressions some we can do something about others we can't so I remembered reading an article let me see if I can pull it up for you this works I can't see to be to the AV desk",
      "PowerPoint on the screen in front so the doctors can see. Thank you. If you look, who's in the front lines here? There are certainly Palestinians and other Arabs, African Americans,",
      "going on here. It's not single instances of violence. We've been everywhere, but everybody is not as informed perhaps as they should be. So these were pictures that a young photographer and I don't know where Shireen is in here took and they're just wonderful pictures,",
      "show how some of us are getting around. All of us need to get around. So in that, I started thinking about what has happened here? If anything in the modern era, the occupied territories serve as teachers for young blacks",
      "in the United States. And there are things that are done, I can't see the screen. There are things they're done to destroy those constitutional freedoms that we all think we have and that will live forever. What's the first one? One of the things that was done as spoken about by Samuel",
      "in our introduction was this invoking of a terrifying enemy within and without. After 9-11, that was done and it continues to be done. Every time we think we can breathe something else happens. And it is ratcheted up to the point where we find no escape.",
      "Homeland Security until after 9-11. People have always put the word homeland and security with Nazi Germany, and we may just be becoming that but that's where it is. What does this say? We have to create gulags. Gulags have been created all over the occupied territories",
      "in the United States. For those of you here in Chicago, it's the south side of Chicago. It's many small suburban communities. It is not that people don't want to come out of them they are not free to do so because what happens when they come out is we then create...",
      "thugs masquerading as policemen, sometimes they are policemen. Sometimes there's SWAT teams other times there's private security firms who come and keep the people inside of their particular gulag. There is a gulags in every city and town in the United States. Most of the time we think that it",
      "think that if we put the proper protocols on our cell phones and computers, and we put up all of the securities on our Facebook pages and Instagram pages, that we're protecting ourselves. We have to think about that things are available at all to surveil you. You're given a semblance",
      "not a real protection and security. The best way to surveil any group of people today is to use their cell phones. We have lights on poles, cameras on poles etc. What does this say?",
      "a most recent victim of this, of the campaign to harass citizens groups. It is to make you scared to give to support the work of Mass ICHNA or CARE or ISNA or whatever by being fearful that you'll be put on some list somewhere. Trust me, you're already",
      "But we have to begin to strike back at those campaigns against us. There is an ongoing engagement in detention and release. In certain communities, there've been some battles fought and people released in other cases they've been detained and deported.",
      "still have men who are in and suffering through renditions. We still have people detained, we still haven't closed Guantanamo and a part of the reason why we have not is because we have also seen ourselves as Muslim citizens in this place demanding what is right.",
      "ways are targeting of key individuals. Barack Obama has in some instances tried to play a fair card and has gotten angst back. We have others inside our communities who stand up, they should never stand alone. One of the other things that has come front",
      "front and center since 9-11 is that dissent now equals treason. There are certainly sedition laws on the books in the United States, but dissent is a hallmark of both the free press and the freedom of speech. And if there all, there loads of us saying hands up don't shoot we can't breathe they",
      "they can't arrest all of us. If it's a few, they get to isolate and then arrest. So think about it. And it's also true that all of are not supposed to be on the front lines. Allah subhanahu wa ta'ala gave us all gifts. Some of us have the gifts like Mr. Offendum",
      "others do, soup kitchens deploy all of our gifts toward what we know is right and just. The Quran created us differently so that we would be challenged to come and know one another. All of us—well put it like this—none of us do that on a regular basis because",
      "to do. We have so many of our own personal issues to handle, never thinking that we may get some insight from someone else. So let me just open it up so that we can get to our conversation and we have some questions. Thank you.",
      "So a number of you have been writing questions down on all kinds of things ranging from receipts to small scraps of paper. I have them here, we are collecting them. Our hope is to get through every single one of them but of course there are going to be repeats so if you don't hear your question please know that we did try to include it or that we have at least incorporated it in another question. What's gonna happen for the next 25-30 minutes is I will be asking the questions that you've asked and they will",
      "of one another and hopefully teaching you. And yes, please keep the questions coming. We're going to spend about two to three minutes per question so we can get through as many as we can. The first question is a very general one. I think it's a very good introductory question. How do you protest or raise awareness in a predominantly white or Republican society?",
      "So there's an assumption in the question. The question again was how do you protest or raise awareness in a predominantly Republican or white society? You've made an assumption that the society is predominantly white or Republican. Is society predominantly",
      "predominantly white or Republican? And when you say white, it's a very general class of people. There are a lot of good people who are whites, who care for justice and there are people as Dr. McLeod just mentioned from the Muslim community itself who claim to be Muslims and yet the amount of damage that they do is far greater so I think we need",
      "by a simple color code, but recognize that there is some institutionalized level of control and racism that's at play. And who are the players who make that happen? You may find that a lot of them are Caucasians, white background, but we will also find they're people from the African American background. They're people form the South Asian background, people from Arab backgrounds, people",
      "immigrant backgrounds who came in knowingly or unknowingly have become part of the system and are actively suppressing others. We have to open our eyes to that, and not say well it's just the whites I gotta worry about. No! We need to know how we're being suppressed, who are the players who are suppressing, and then be able to take appropriate action. Knowing",
      "We have to have some level of a free mind, a free spirit. We have recognize that we are servants of Allah. Are we fearful of the day when we will stand before Allah or are we fearful Of the day that we have to stand before somebody else on this planet? When the Prophet stood up for justice",
      "And he was ridiculed and he was attacked in Mecca. And people went to war because of what? Essentially a cause for justice. He was boycotted and his whole family for three whole years as we know in the valley. For what, three whole year did he stop? Who do we fear? So when we say even if the whole world was oppressive,",
      "Do we really fear Allah SWT? If so, then we have to be ready to act. I really don't care what other people will say or think. I have to stand before Allah and say, Ya Rabb, I did everything within my power. If all within my",
      "to write, I knew how to draw. I wrote articles, I drew cartoons, I brought people's attention to the issue as a teacher, as an educator. I educated the next generation on the systematic process of institutionalized racism that exists. I did it. Are we doing all of that is the question that we have to answer. We don't have to worry about who's majority or whose minority. Can we stand before Allah and say",
      "before Allah and said I did everything I could. Okay so you guys have actually been bringing a lot of questions, so now we don't think we can get through all of them but we will do our best to address the ones that yeah okay so here are a few questions I'll ask these two questions together. The first is as an attorney and this may require some background providing",
      "both recent instances, and we're referring to Mike Brown's case and Eric Garner's case for those who are unfamiliar had grand juries who decided against the charges. Is this not better than trial by media? After all, we have been victims of this too. This is one question. And the second question I will ask is this individual says he or she wholeheartedly agrees that Palestine and Ferguson are extremely similar issues. However many seem to have voiced the opinion",
      "both of the issues are ineffective because they demand unrealistic goals. And then they point to the civil rights movement and its very realistic and seemingly tangible goals, what do you think about this? Do you agree?",
      "Grand juries don't charge people as whoever the attorney was who wrote the question. Grand jury's refer a case to a jury trial and in both of these instances, well in several there have been quite a few since the initial ones back in the summer,",
      "There have been some claims made about the fact that prosecutors and grand juries work very closely together, and that is true. What didn't happen immediately after the grand jury which is handing no indictment was a global or national or local uproar that could not be denied.",
      "Let me try to impart a little history, although I'm hesitant to do this in this forum. Protests look like a lot of people being angry in a diffuse sort of way.",
      "several decades ago when black folks decided they had enough of hopping off the streets and crossing over the streets, when white people walked down the street. They got tired of not being able to eat in restaurants just because the restaurant was there. The mounting protests—one set of them—was a civil rights protest. Did they go somewhere? Well absolutely!",
      "Well, absolutely. They opened the doors of immigration so that lots of you sitting in the audience could come here. They passed a Voter's Rights Act. The tentacles that come from protests which roll on down a slope gathering speed and people and ideas about what a just and good society to look like are enormous.",
      "So just protesting at the moment, it's not a thing of getting the police out of communities. It is getting to police to act by their mandate which is to protect and serve, not call and kill. Two very different things. Thank you.",
      "A quick add to what Dr. McLeod said, when you think of these things as being ineffective if somebody thinks that many people point to the uprisings in Gaza over time and Palestine as being effective and you ask yourself after 10 15 20 years was it ineffective or has it brought so much attention to the cause that has actually become extremely effective little kids on",
      "at full grown adults with fully automatic machine guns. You'd think that's nuts, should we do it? Was it effective? People question the BDS movement, divestment boycott sanctions, boycott divestments sanctions, BDS movements that has been going on in campuses and is picking up a lot of steam",
      "Israeli companies or Israeli goods, we're not going to invest over there. People laughed and said hey what's that gonna do? Was it effective? It's so much effective that now Israel has a full-time lobby to make BDS illegal in the United States they're trying to push a law through Congress that if you participate in this you will get in trouble was that effective absolutely don't say going to a protest march going to rally is not effective",
      "to another, leads to another. It builds up quite a lot. Wonderful. The next two questions are these. The first is what is the best way for groups like the Muslim Students Association, Students for Justice in Palestine or other similarly socially conscious groups? What is the thing for them to do? And obviously that means regarding showing their solidarity with those in Ferguson and elsewhere.",
      "The second question, which was interestingly enough given to us on a closed tag. It's nice that you have that with you. Thank you. I have a hard time connecting Islam and justice. How do I stop seeing Islam as just for worship? And how do I connect it to social justice? What is an apolitical MSA?",
      "I've never heard of an apolitical MSA. As soon as they organized, they were political. So I'm not quite sure if they mean that they think they can be silent and graduate. Who asked that question?",
      "campus organization is political. So, I'm lost. I don't know what that means. Let me connect these two questions that came together right? The second one was how do I have a hard time connecting Islam and justice? How do I stop seeing Islam as just worship and connected to social justice? And I think the two are connected in some ways if you understand Islam as",
      "worshiping Allah as in doing your five prayers, fasting and paying zakat and so forth. You have a partial understanding of Islam. And I say that with all honesty. We really have to explore what Islam is. The Prophet when he started his mission, he started with justice. He didn't start with y'all have to pray now. Everybody has to fast. That came later.",
      "The first thing was treat people well. Why are the orphans being mistreated? Why are women being mistreat? Why do these people turn into a slave class? The first that Islam brought was honesty and justice, it is a call for justice. Our whole Islamic understanding and ideology pushes us towards justice.",
      "from the Quran where Allah is commanding us to stand for justice. If you don't stand for Justice, the prayers are... You know, you gotta wonder what were you praying for? Allah will ask you, you prayed! Did you act on the prayer? Did you do anything about it? And so when you collect yourself as Muslims,",
      "question as Dr. McLeod asked, how are you apolitical? The fact that you are a Muslim automatically means you stand for something. You stand for a cause. You stands for justice for everybody. You Stand for honesty. You Stands for truth. Being a Muslim by definition means you stands for something there's no apolitic thing about it. You have to stand for it if you don't stand",
      "I think we need to go back and understand them a little bit better. So these next two questions are the following, what about the race issues in our mosques? It's a very valid question, thank you for asking that. And the second thing is how do we convince or compel the Muslim leaders",
      "in our communities to spend financially and work politically to support black Muslim America. So the first question of race within the community, we have to be very honest that's why",
      "change this whole conference format of this session and say you know what we want to have a conversation let's be honest real talk honest brutal real talk because when we are six foot under when the angels come down and I start asking those questions it will be straight up real talk when we're standing before Allah SWT it will not be able to play around and answer questions in fancy ways does racism exist within especially",
      "the immigrant Muslim community? Absolutely. It astounds me, and I made this in my opening remarks last night. The audacity some people have to look around and say, to use that word, and please don't misunderstand and think these are older people coming from the bilad and they're still using this word. No, these are young people just a couple of days ago",
      "of days ago on Facebook you know that you have a whole series of conversations happening young people say yeah so what one Abid died referring to Fergus Ferguson to Mike Brown so what so many people in Gaza died why should I care like seriously that's the mindset we have with that mindset we will be standing before Allah SWT and being",
      "When Allah says that the death of one person is equivalent to the death humanity. There's no limit here, you know? You gotta reach a critical mark here. A hundred people have to die before I consider this. Maybe a thousand people have died before I considered it. No, no! One person dies in an unjust fashion we are responsible here. We could've done something about it. Does racism exist within our community? Yes. Do we act on it? Do we stop? No.",
      "No. There's a whole tiering. Everybody looks at each other and says, and be very honest, you know, ask yourself some questions, some very serious questions. Here you go. When you think, close your eyes and think of a good, honest person, think of role model. What's the image that comes to your mind?",
      "a drug dealer, or a thug? What's the image that comes to your mind?\" And then you ask yourself why. Right and I'm projecting that you may have certain images. When we look at somebody is sitting in the middle of Idaho doesn't understand Islam, doesn't understands Muslims, and that person just listening to Fox and CNN and watching all this and it's very anti-Islam and says all Muslims are terrorists what's",
      "Muslims doesn't understand Islam. You know if I can just have this conversation and just be myself, I can explain as soon as that person interacts with the Muslims they will know just who we really are How many African Americans do we seriously interact with on a regular basis or Are these images? Just like those folks get images from Fox and CNN We've all been fed images from somewhere else",
      "somewhere else and we're making these generalized statements and saying those people ask does racism exist absolutely do we take the step to go out and reach and try to understand no man I can't go to South Side of Chicago it's dangerous all right maybe not South Side right fine sorry cool go somewhere else but do",
      "Where do you get these? Is it some ideas that we have in our mind that's pushing us or are we actively educating ourselves and saying I have to combat this racism that exists within me, and I not somebody else. I have cross the barrier first internally and then I can act on something else.",
      "all of them have a deal of, if not racism, intolerance. I think most of the time it's not even conscious. I am most comfortable with those who speak like me look like me and I think who value what I value. What we don't learn however is that there are others in other communities",
      "and value what you value. How do we change that? And I think in this instance, everybody has to become an emissary of sorts themselves. If there are some people who you're hanging around with, invite them to the community. Have them over. Have",
      "that you have to be best friends, but what it does mean is you will leave knowing something about the other. One of the things that I think brings communities together and one of the thing that disturbs me a great deal is we talk about the occupied territories",
      "the border with Turkey, but we don't do anything. And there's some very concrete things we can do in the same way that the Christian churches are taking in the orphan of our children. Our masajid should take in the orphans of our own. We can as a religious group just",
      "kids here, whether it's for medical treatment, whether families can be reunified or whatever it is. It is a part of their mission to raise those children as Christians. My question would be why are we choosing to let them do that and not have a stake in the game ourselves?",
      "ethnicities together. And that's a fundamental way, you can't say you care and your care only reside inside your own family. Thank you for those answers. The next few questions are addressed individually. The first question is to Dr. McLeod. Many have voiced the phrase or",
      "can only be expressed by those of the black community. Is it insensitive to make this issue our own? Supporting is one thing, but co-opting the struggle is another one.\" Can we have your thoughts on that? That's your question and for Dr. Sadiq... Okay, we'll have you answer that question and then we'll get back.",
      "attack, but the I can't breathe is when the pressure's on you are far too much for you to bear. In our communities some of the young folk in this room were born right around 9-11. They haven't been able to breathe since they left the womb because we put them in a situation where forces acting outside of our homes and our communities",
      "life just unbearable. They can't breathe either. Many of us, because we don't have the needed counseling services and psychological services inside our communities are trying to play pretend nothing is happening. You know—oh I hate to say how old I am but anyway in 1967 when I heard for the first time",
      "into Fata probably could not have spelled it but folk were talking about this group over here is coming to take the land and they're killing these people over there we left our college campuses and hit the streets did we know where the occupied territories were some of us did some of them didn't. We went to the streets because",
      "adversities, just like they were back then involved in apartheid. We were willing to forego the education to shut it down. You can't say you stand for justice and be willing to sacrifice nothing if he can't breathe I can't breath because we're in the same atmosphere. I've got to move to help him",
      "What is at stake if we don't band together? What is that steak our Humanity's at Stake as simple as that Our humanity is at Stakes If you're willing to let somebody else suffer",
      "place and my neighbor dies of hunger? If you're okay having nice clothes, and somebody else freezes to death. If you are okay being able to walk on the street and somebody gets harassed every single time and is made to do certain things. I would ask what kind of human beings is that? Where is our humanity? The Prophet repeatedly",
      "repeatedly would ask us to do things for our neighbors, for our friends, for other people. He never once said you know be good to your Muslim neighbor. No! Your neighbors have a right upon you. There's no question of what religion or what background they come from. Our humanity is at stake if we don't understand this and come together. I also want to come back to a question that was asked earlier, and I think I may have misunderstood slightly",
      "If you don't act on your belief, it's so theoretical. And so you have to act and that action is all about social justice. That is how we frame ourselves, that's how we look at ourselves, and that's what we conduct our lives altogether. What can we do about it? There are several things that we can do about this. The very first thing we can is educate ourselves. Do we recognize this issue? Do we recognise this as a problem?",
      "Do I know any of the history? Do I understand what's going on? Even if you're just studying the history of the United States. How many people in the audience have read People's History of the U.S by Howard Zinn? Just raise your hand. People's history of The United States, not too many because again we come through the school system and are fed a specific understanding of history. Write this down.",
      "the United States by Howard Zinn, Z-I-N-N. It gives you a very different alternative perspective of history of the United states than what is taught in general schools. We need to educate ourselves. What are the issues at stake here? Second we have to start examining our own biases be very honest this is for our own benefit it's not going to help her it's gonna help him it's going to",
      "it. Third, with that knowledge start recognizing the stereotypes that are happening around us. With that knowledge and I see oh wow why is it that 80% of my class in college is made off a certain background? It makes you think, makes you want to act get out of your comfort zones find allies you don't have to do everything yourself so many other people the churches others",
      "Don't try to overshadow, but participate and learn. That will lead to another step and inshallah lead to a new step down the path. Thank you for that answer. We have one more question and this is going to be to Dr. Ammon McLeod. And after that we'll ask the two speakers to briefly summarize their points if there's any last minute thoughts they'd like to share with you. But as I was reading through these questions and I did my best to be fair about it,",
      "continue to come up and that question was how can we as Muslims even fathom to get involved if really the problem is black on black violence? I'd like Dr. Emma McLeod to address this issue. It's a question it comes up all the time, and one is that you remember the slide I showed you on the gulag",
      "done has begun to eat each other. The parents and the grandparents have not ratcheted down the violence, they have not gone onto the streets and grabbed their children back because it's wanton violence. It has become my turf is the width of my two feet next to each other that",
      "sure that if you could tweet them something, they would be more than grateful. We have ex-gangbangers coming into communities trying to raise awareness. It's not working. It is too far out of control and this is one of the places where we as Muslims can in our standing for what",
      "some additional thoughts. Come in, treat it as your own community. On the south side or west side of Chicago where we have seen corner stores selling drugs letting young people hang out another organization Iman has stepped in to negotiate with the store owners there been lots up the young people who are in this room today",
      "there but there needs to be more. When you want to see why a life is not valued, help work a health clinic. Teach people or reteach them about the value of family. Thank you. As-salamu alaykum. All right my last comment, my thought change does not come overnight. You're",
      "are going to stay in our hearts, that's okay. But we have to keep working at it. We have to work at it, so don't let it get you down. Are we striving? The bottom line question would be do I care? Am I just? Can I stand before my Lord and answer for my deeds on the day when nothing else will count? Can i?"
    ]
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    "text": [
      "Assalamualaikum warahmatullahi wabarakatuh Saya Karunia Hazimara Mahasiswa ilmu Al-Quran dan Tafsir Disini saya akan menjelaskan mengenai penafsiran Ibu Aminawadud atas Quran Surat Anisa ayat 34 dengan pendekatan Hermenitika Gadamer Menurut Ibu Aminawadod tidak ada penafsyiran atas Al-Kuran yang bersifat definitif sehingga Al-Кuran harus terkait",
      "harus terus menerus ditafsirkan. Pada ayat ini kita akan belajar pada kata Arrijalu Kauwamu Na'alan Nisa, itu saja. Ibu Aminah Wadud mengacu pada teori dan langkah-langkah operasional Hermenetika Dialogis Gadamer dia menawarkan tiga langkah penafsiran yang pertama yaitu analisis bahasa",
      "Dan yang ketiga yaitu pandangan dunia. Nah, yang pertama yaitulah analisis bahasa. Menurut Ibu Aminawadud bahwa kata Ar-Rijal dan An-Nisa dalam Quran Surat An- Nisa ayat 34, disitu hanya bicara mengenai spesies saja. Dimana disitu Allah mengkaruniakan pada masing-masing Ar- Rijal",
      "Hanyalah ketakwaannya saja Langkah yang kedua yaitu analisis konteks Dimana Ibu Aminah Wadud disini Sepakat terhadap pendapat Muhammad Abduh Nah, menurut Muhammad Abдуh Kata akwam itu diartikan kepemimpinan Nah, kepemimpinan yang dimaksud disni Yaitu dalam artian menjaga, melindungi Dan mencukupi kebutuhan Apabila ketiga hal ini dapat dilakukan",
      "ini dapat dicukupi atau dapat ditegakkan maka konsekuensinya seseorang itu akan mendapat warisan lebih daripada pihak yang lain nah tetapi perlu digarisbawahi bahwa kepemimpinan yang dimaksud disini yaitu kepemimpinan yang sifatnya demokratis di mana kepemiminan tersebut memberikan kebebasan untuk bertindak menurut aspirasi dan kehendaknya",
      "dan kehendaknya sendiri nah itu Ibu Aminah Wadud sepakat atas hal tersebut Nah, Ibu Aamina wadud juga menjelaskan bahwa pada zaman dahulu itu kesadaran perempuan pada saat itu masih sangat rendah dan pekerjaan domestik dianggap adalah itu pekerjanan peremuan yang menempel pada pereumpuan. Yang kedua yaitu laki-laki menganggab dirinya sendiri lebih unggul daripada",
      "Disebabkan kekuasaan dan kemampuan mereka mencari nafkah dan menghidupi perempuan yang hidup bersamanya Menurut Ibu Aminah Wadud, mengapa Mufasir Klasik itu mengartikan bahwa Arijenu Kawamuna Al-Nisa itu sebagai laki-laki adalah pemimpin perembuan Karena pada saat itu peremmuan itu tidak memiliki akses sehingga untuk meningkatkan kualitas dirinya pereмuan itu",
      "dia tidak terlepas dari konstruk budaya patriarki Terima kasih dan semoga bermanfaat Wassalamualaikum Wr. Wb"
    ]
  },
  {
    "file": "amina_mccloud/Black Muslim Students Conference_ Dr Aminah Al Dee_x1vR5y2Ona4&pp=ygUVQW1pbmFoIE1jQ2xvdWQgIGlzbGFt_1742896758.opus",
    "text": [
      "All right, I think we are live.",
      "We are. At least I am getting messages that we can be seen by other people, so we will go ahead and get started. Salaam everyone and thank you for your patience with getting workshops running and started for the day. So we are super excited to have Dr Amina Eldeen with us today she is a professor emerita of Islamic studies in the department of religious studies at DePaul University. She's the first and only black woman to start the first undergraduate baccalaureate program in Islamic world",
      "and chief of the Journal of Islamic Law and Culture. Her book publications include African American Islam, Questions of Faith, Transnational Muslims in America, Introduction to Islam in the 21st Century, Global Muslims in the 24th Century, History of Arab Americans, Exploring Diverse Roots in Muslim Ethics in the 25th Century. And Dr. Eldeen is a senior Fulbright scholar and advisory board member of the Institute for Social and Policy Understanding,",
      "Islamic College Executive Board Member of IMAN, which is the Inner City Muslim Action Network and the American editor for the Muslim minorities in the West series for Brill Publishers. She's also an editor of Anthropology Open Access Journal. So that was just a little bit of a recap for anyone who is not familiar but Dr. Eldeen your list goes on and on and I think there's a lot of wisdom that comes from having any kind",
      "someone who has reached your stature in society, whether that is being a published author or being involved in academic studies which I think something that a lot of Black Muslims aspire to do and be in those spaces. But I think we mentioned in our student panel it's not always just the success stories that we see like here are the publications, here are journals, whatever it may be in these spaces so what do you feel was the moment when you felt yes I'm making",
      "making something and I'm making it happen that shifted from the struggles and challenges that you had getting to this point? Salam alaikum. That's a big, big question. I was talking with some girlfriends of mine",
      "There are different struggles when you want to make a difference. I'll put it like that. So which one do you want me to talk about? Let's talk about making a difference, is that something you aspired to do from the beginning or just happened along the way? It just happened on the way mostly because I didn't know how I could",
      "and finishing my dissertation at the same time, and being a little shell shocked at all of it. Trying to figure out how to put all of the things I had learned together for the African American community which I still work on all the time. And it's a struggle.",
      "the world of journals. And they are, that knowledge is largely inaccessible until you can get your foot in that door. A lot of very fascinating and thorough African-American writers don't get their foot in",
      "forthright and please call me. And let me see how I can help you. But it's also learning one of the things you learn in graduate school is how to take critique. For sure. And for these spaces that you have said that you had to get your foot in the door, how did you do that? How did you find those resources and avenues to even get you at the door?",
      "Well, you know, remarkably a lot manifested that while I was writing my dissertation the publishers came to me. How they knew I existed I have no clue but Routledge an editor from Routlage literally glued himself to me and you can write this book",
      "And I will help you do everything You ever needed to do And on top of that We will give you some up front money And I'm saying Oh my goodness well that's nice But I'm writing this dissertation And it was oh but you can also write This book So I got a little schizophrenic And began to do two But once the door Is open Others will Notice your work",
      "And then you get offers from other publishing companies. The other route is to finish a manuscript and then submit it for review to publishers. It is better to submit it to review from someone who is a mentor of yours first because you want to put your best foot forward. I think that",
      "university publishers and other publishers like Routledge or Oxford, people like that. It is better to have your mentor read whatever it is you think you want to publish first but I think the key to all of that is academic writing which is not...I mean if you want",
      "writing. That's a different kind of writing, which I don't do. But and then there's also fiction. And what you need is a mentor who does fiction, a mentor, who does biographical writing. So the next question is, you've mentioned that people came to you because of your dissertation. What was it about that people were reaching out to you to get that published? What was that looking like? The topics, themes anything like that?",
      "anything like that? Well, I think one of the things in Islamic studies there's very little philosophical methodology. And to get to that while I was studying, I had to dart out and take courses in philosophy, sociology, anthropology which added to an enormous course load but it enabled me to have",
      "a way to translate what I wanted to talk about. So publishers initially Routledge was very interested that I was using pieces of and extending the philosophy of people like Michelle Foucault, Derrida and Bourdieu",
      "I don't know if you know those names, but extending their philosophy in some senses correcting it and other senses to see how to look at Muslim communities particularly in that book African American Muslim communities. So we've talked a bit about your world in the publication realm of everything, but before you got there What was your life looking like?",
      "Like what was your, as we've mentioned the topic of this workshop is your journey in Islam. What did that look like? Or just like your journey to get to that point as well? Well, the program I was in was for me, I'm sure for some others as difficult, but in the program",
      "outside of the language we spoke. We had to do Islamic law, Kalam, we had to Islamic philosophy. We have to do a lot of stuff. So for me I was always overwhelmed, always losing my mind just a little bit, quitting every other week saying well I can go into interior design or something that at least",
      "least I can look at and it looks nice. One of the things that I found out, and learned to really be grateful for, I had wonderful mentors in undergraduate school while I was a science major. And I had an awesome array of mentors in graduate school from",
      "Hussain Nasser to Muhammad Ar-Kul. I mean, just in a way from traditionalist to modernists, from people who were fighting against the stagnation of thought in Islam to people who thought that traditional Arabic studies was the only way and then along the way",
      "and some West African Muslim scholars. So they broadened my scope, they made my task very difficult. It was for me coming from science to Islamic studies extremely difficult because humanities in itself was difficult.",
      "in the chat about the topics that you study. And then, the question is how do you prioritize the topics you study and write about? Do you write in response to current issues or questions you've always had? I try to do a range fortunately for me and I try extend that fortune. I never have to submit a manuscript and wait for somebody to say okay. So",
      "So it has been, people ask me to write texts about this that and the other. I've used articles more so to address issues. The book I'm working on now talks about Muslim healthcare workers in COVID-19 because part of my background is in medicine",
      "I was very interested in how Muslim health care workers using Islamic biomedical ethics were handling COVID-19, its patients, its shortcomings, bad media, absence of PPE, all of those things. So sometimes it's topical. Other times it's because I've been asked to write like the book on Arab Americans.",
      "was a real struggle because I had to learn about Orthodox Christianity. But it's in a tandem. Absolutely, and with your most recent being about COVID what are you seeing in terms of the Black Muslim community in response to COVID? Either in how it is affecting us or in how doctors are being able to actually inhabit these spaces as of late?",
      "Well, two realms. One, there is a dire, dire shortage of Muslim Black, I mean, well, Black African or African American Muslim physicians, nurses, nurse practitioners, physician's assistants. And that kind of shocked me because I thought",
      "as something that they could do. On the other hand, there is I want to say a quandary of African-American Muslims show up their African American first Muslim kind of second and the patient and the patients relatives especially if that patient is female have difficulties",
      "because they got to get stripped bare. And it's who is watching over me? What are their, and there's nobody there to attend to the spiritual questions which intersect with psychological questions. So it has been difficult. African-American Muslims are part of the larger African American community",
      "kind of the same numbers, especially those who don't believe they should wear a mask because Allah will take care of them or it is Allah's decree if I catch COVID, I catch it. And then they bring it home to elderly parents or other relatives who then die. Absolutely and it has been difficult to see. We have witnessed in our own communities",
      "just effects of being black in these spaces, not only with COVID but also with things like Black Lives Matter this past summer. And I think a lot of people are trying to find ways to support the communities that we're in and so what do you think is our best effort at supporting the communities who are actively on the front lines for us whether that's in terms of doctors or whether it's in term of the people protesting right now to make sure that black people in general but also black Muslims are prioritized?",
      "Oh, girl what did you do? You slept on these questions. Let me think. Black Lives Matter and the protests I was so happy I was almost jumping out of my skin. And it took me back to being a freshman and sophomore in college.",
      "I should take my values and really think through protest. And I made some decisions, you know? I see being Muslim as a struggle along the highway. And on that highway sometimes you're in the center lane other times you've drifted over into another lane and you have to auto correct",
      "on at the same time. And when I was in college, there was us, Milana Karanga's group running around. There were the Black Panthers. There was the Civil Rights Movement. And the only thing I kind of knew was that I thought, well, I thought I knew, was that the Civil",
      "And people are gonna stick dogs on you. And your responses, turn the other cheek. I didn't quite get that. So I joined the Black Panthers because that made more sense to me and it made sense to as a Muslim that justice delayed is no justice at all. But I was also fighting",
      "my role as a Muslim. You know, there were some things I was willing to talk about. There were other things I would make allies with and felt that I couldn't be allied with so it was always a negotiation. At the same time you had fraternities and sororityies and people who ignored everything that was happening. This time reminded me",
      "so much of that because many of us decided if I can't live, be free and whatever my religious dictates are then there is no sense in living here at all. I will fight until I die. And I saw that with some of the folks but also saw them not learning from my experiences which you have to have parameters",
      "You have to have a check on people who are there not to support you, but are there to cause you harm with the looting and taking advantage of a movement. And I remember reading from, I think her last name is Garcia, who was a co-founder of Black Lives Matter, that this is supposed",
      "Because change, real change has to happen. And the civil rights legislation, you know, legislation is nice. But if it's never enforced, it doesn't exist. So I mean as a Muslim, I did everything I can. I host a talk show on critical talk called Critical Talk Tuesday through Thursday. I try to bring young people what is the theater doing?",
      "theater doing? What should we know in the political room? How should we think about education? And as a slightly older person, I see that as something sitting. I can continue to do by getting voices out there. One of the questions we got was how has your activism influenced your research? A lot when I don't want to write",
      "I don't want to write, I write. I learned from Walter Mosley believe it or not that you have to write every day. I write every dead. I wrote throughout the day in pieces because I got so used to having kids all over me that I had to learn to write in pieces and keep a thought train",
      "trained in my head. But I write every day. I think it's important that we write because if we don't write, we don' t exist and that led me to make the Islam in America archive at DePaul because there has to be a place for us to research from. We have to have resources",
      "find African American Muslim institutions where I could begin to create a depository of writings, you know whether they're biographical, autobiographical pieces because the generations of Muslims in America amongst the African Americans there's no their pieces and they have to be",
      "And they have to be brought together because we tend to collect stuff and keep it in our basements, in our attics where one good fire, one good flood, one move and it's gone. But you have to leave a footprint. So you mentioned right then at the end which goes into great next question that we have of having one good move and then it's",
      "who are on their journey of figuring out Islam and their relationship to that, whether it is in terms of wanting to do academic studies in the ways that you have or just inhabiting these spaces as well. So what would your advice be for young Muslims who may stumble along the way or may have their one good moment and then start feeling like they're not there anymore and that their faith has shaken?",
      "of it, I never speak of converts because that's a Christian term. That really doesn't apply to an Islamic journey and I prefer to think of it as a highway that you hop on, you know some things, you don't know others. There has been an Arabic hegemony so everybody runs off and they try to learn Arabic and learn a lot about dead Arab scholars",
      "But that doesn't seat you if you're African American. So on that highway, and I've talked about this in my classes, you know, if you can picture the lanes on a highway, you start off, you're good. Many of us started off taking the Quran to prayer with us because we hadn't memorized anything.",
      "We didn't enter into that genderized field because it was who learned what first, who could lead the prayer, for example. And we moved along and then sometimes whether it was a family thing or this, that, and the other, we had people from other cultures telling us, oh, well, if your family's not Muslim, then you got to cut them loose.",
      "That is not happening here because I want to inherit something if it's not anything more than a bracelet. You know, no. And then there was a real push to change your name. You're now what I'm saying? Oh my God, how people going to locate you in your family? How are you gonna know your nieces and nephews that all of the, you go to college,",
      "And you may get out of that center lane on the highway and dip over to the shoulder. You know, your car has run out of gas and you have to go over to this shoulder. And while you're waiting for some assistance, you explore what's on the shoulder and then you pray. Lots of time people talk about holding the rope and the rope is something that has to be cultivated",
      "cultivated. It has strands, something that you can hold on to and people who are welcoming you back. They always have to be there despite your little exit to welcome you back and then take what you have learned and put it in the pot of knowledge. You know,",
      "seen Islam become a bit of a turnstile with women saying, oh my God I got brains and I got sense you're putting me in the back of places what is up with that? This is not what Islam is supposed to be isn't it right? I've seen young men get so immersed in one portion",
      "one teeny tiny portion of Islamic studies that they lose the sense. I've seen young people teaching for 30 years, I think I've said just about it all folk who say okay my parents came from, I don't know name a country colonial leavings led us to communism or socialism",
      "socialism. And now I've decided, I want to get back to the religious portion and there's nowhere to go. I've seen the develop my house was a third space for a while. And I listened, didn't talk, but listen, uh, to young people's, um, conversations over sexuality, over marriage,",
      "with my life. Everybody doesn't have to be a professor, everybody doesn't need to be an Islamic scholar. What they do have to do is seat themselves slowly and firmly because if you seat yourself quickly, you're going to hop out of the seat. So seat yourself slowly and firm in Islam. It's very obvious that there's some shaking up going on in these communities where people are questioning certain",
      "questioning certain aspects of Islam that are making these communities a challenge for young Muslims to create. Say more about that, what's shaking it up? Of just having people who are having questions of faith right now and having- I'm bothering you. No, no, you're not bothering me at all because I mean, right now we're in the middle of a pandemic. We're seeing everything going on in the world that people are saying why is this happening?",
      "I have, you know for some people thinking that they've done everything right and yet we're in the middle of a pandemic and we're In the middle as you know a pull off the hallway an exit that they weren't expecting so how do we as young Muslims get ourselves back on that highway? And also to continue to foster these communities that are on the ground that have built us up That are currently shaken",
      "When you read the Quran, one of the things that you read with respect to the prophets is prophets coming to people. People questioning and challenging those prophets. Apparently there are some people that get the message and there are others that don't. But everybody experiences a reckoning. And this pandemic is a reckonic.",
      "is a reckoning. It's out of your control. We have prayed in our dua and other prayers for justice, for leveling. And then when God on God's terms provides that we get upset. It is not about your thinking",
      "Because that's your thinking. Only Allah knows, but it is also what the pandemic doesn't know race. The pandemic doesn' t know class. The Pandemic doesn't no religion. So if you wanted to think about it one would think about why",
      "why do we pray for something and when it comes, we're unable to use the time for reflection. And it is a reflection. Is my Islam superficial or has it really come to sit on my heart? Do I use the vicar to calm myself? You know, how",
      "How is this shaping me? So I would say since we are getting close on time, a great question for young Muslims who are working through their path in Islam is what is the best piece of advice that you have received or been given that has sculpted the person you are today and the journey that you've been on.",
      "You know, I got to. That is so darn difficult. I'm thinking that the best advice I got was from Dr. Suleiman Yang. He was on my dissertation committee. I didn't go to Howard. But one of the things he told me is that African-Americans have to be African-American.",
      "Their history is important. You're not Arabs. You don't need to look like Arabs. And he was very adamant about, don't mimic somebody else's culture. Develop your own African-American Islam. I think that was the best piece of advice I got. And in terms of your academia, what do you feel has been the shifting moment for you?",
      "This is where the academia is being, like the advice that you were given then that helped you progress yourself into a renowned author and an incredible professor. I was learning about the various Islamic cultures out there studying Chinese Islam, studying Indonesian Islam, Southeast Asian Islam, West African and East African Islam",
      "and looking how Islam settled in culture, and people made Islam their own. Not somebody else's. That kind of shifted me. Yeah? We have a couple more minutes because we had a networking session cut off so I have a few questions for you if you have the time. There was someone in the comments who asked",
      "Can you speak on the impact of Islamophobia or anti-Muslim hatred and discrimination on the right to freedom of thought, consciousness of religion or belief? Can you repeat the last part of that again? So the full question was can you speak about the impact in Islamophobia",
      "I think Islamophobia is an inappropriate term. It's not a hatred of Islam, it's anti-Muslim bigotry and I think because we have let African American Islam be conflated with immigrant Islam they're conflated on a lot of terms the beheadings in Nice will cause anti-muslim bigoty here",
      "as a community done more than say, oh we condemn. That doesn't mean anything. It's the same as people saying I condemn racism and then I go on about being a racist but you know so I mean we have to say what it is that should be. The condemnation alone is not alone. I think freedom of speech",
      "have to realize how this country has permitted some things, you know. Freedom of speech and freedom of religion. We're free to practice as Muslims. Trying to force religion into the public space is going to get the same backlash as trying to force Christianity in the public",
      "we want religion in schools, it's not going to be Islam. It's going to Christianity. When we want the courts to consider Christianity now we have a majority Catholic Supreme Court. We've not paid attention to federal judges and their personal religious beliefs are going",
      "the people need to go to law school. They needs a clerk and they need to become some of those judges. So just continuing on that thought, you just left us on how can young Muslims as minorities combat these institutions and systems that are working against us? I think we need... I'm gonna go back to mentorship which will help in planning.",
      "I have seen attempts at our own institutions. One initiative that I like very much is the lamppost educational initiative because it prevents a diversity of thought, but I think since we have chosen to be here,",
      "for that self kind of intellectual satisfaction. We have to pair that with seeking some spiritual satisfaction, both for ourselves as individuals and what will help our communities. During this volume on COVID we've realized that we are not in the places we want to be. We've left our caretaking to others which is insane.",
      "So this will be the last question just because it's a two-part question, might be a little bit tricky. But what do you see as the biggest issue that Black Muslims are facing right now? And how do you think we solve it? I would say then we haven't developed our own understanding of",
      "of the Muslim sources out there. We have accepted only Arab sources as our guide and the Arab world is in chaos so that I don't know if that guidance is all that we need to take from. I think one of the base questions, well one of",
      "by others than African Americans. Self-published books will not be in the libraries going forward. They will not need online resources for the kids behind, even your kids when they go, they will find books by others talking about us and there is a master narrative",
      "you know, that fits into a larger Black master narrative. So I think the hegemonies of there's been a Protestantation of Islam. We have surely even with the term convert brought and sinned we've brought Christianity to sit at the center of Islam without evaluation",
      "in immigrant Islam, which is contentious in and of itself. Because these are colonized people that are not post anything. And I don't know that we want that to be Islamic America. I definitely agree with you on that. Never letting other people dictate the agendas that we're working on.",
      "just before we were running into the next workshop. So I would just like to thank you for being here with us today, Dr. Al-Din. I think that anyone here has gained something from your wisdom and your experience and having that be a formulating point in their own personal journey is to finding new ways of discovering Islam whether that is on the African American agenda or whether that's on the realm of academics and general as well so thank you so much for your time and for being",
      "Well, thank you for having me. And I would just like to say for those in the audience get a mentor so you can have a plan like yesterday and many, almost all of us speaking are willing and up to the task with the pandemic. We don't we, you know, we have time. Thank you so much.",
      "And Dr. Odeen, feel free to join us for the rest of the conference as well. I will. Salaam alaikum. Selaam alaykum."
    ]
  },
  {
    "file": "amina_mccloud/Check out Aminah Beverly McCloud Al Deen_s intervi__1742894418.opus",
    "text": [
      "Well, all of the communities, unfortunately have their experiences of colonialism, you know, different ways. But those countries which experienced British and French and Portuguese and Dutch colonialism had the European form of racism coming down",
      "I remember the first time I was in Pakistan seeing these huge billboards of light and lovely. And really, and so white becomes preferred. And the darker you are, the less your chances are of success."
    ]
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    "file": "amina_mccloud/Conversations_ Imam Fredrick alDeen and Dr_ Amina _3taRQjsjLRE&pp=ygUVQW1pbmFoIE1jQ2xvdWQgIGlzbGFt_1742897064.opus",
    "text": [
      "What's going on with the 2020 presidential election and local elections? Let me first give my salams. But let me say, if anybody can figure that out, that would be great. Anything you can think of is going on. I think we need to start with our incumbent, President Trump. He supports school choice, and most of us like the idea of school choice.",
      "If they're good schools. Well, the thing about it is you are talking about public schools where people go to... I mean not the students of course but teachers teach because it's a steady paycheck and has benefits not necessarily because their experts in subject matter which has always been an issue.",
      "as far as issues in this election is the amount of money public schools are losing that have been siphoned off and going into private schools. What other issues do you see? No, those are charter schools. Well, charter schools, I call them private schools because they're not really available to the public. What are the issues do",
      "I think that as with any sovereign nation, one of the issues becomes immigration. No sovereign nation can have open borders. How he has worked on regulating people coming in that opposes what our Congress has let stand",
      "Immigration policy is an interesting situation. It's our Congress that has not redone immigration You know so in the absence of redoing it we're left with these draconian kind of measures, you know ban Muslims Even if they come into visit band H what is it h1h one visas?",
      "And then if they sneak through, if the actual person you want to hire sneaks through on an H-1B visa, then you ban his spouse. So you're separating families and destroying families. You know, and it's all because we have put Band-Aids on a really bad immigration policy. We haven't taken down the Statue of Liberty.",
      "Whatever else is tired you're poor. You're tired and your poor because we're saying well, we want to go back to 1897 Immigration plot do not come if you're a poor tiger or homeless We do not want you in building America so they even need to rewrite the script under the Statue of Liberty Or they need to Really serious say look we're going to go",
      "hands-on and change make an immigration policy that works which includes asylum seekers and refugees I mean because that's important on the other hand still you have those who wish to do the country and its citizens harm sneaking in and they may be relatives of bonafide",
      "I have no clue as to how one handles that. However, I think there's a middle path. It was always good to look for the middle path but I can't go without commenting on how difficult it seems in responding to a question of what has Donald Trump done positively? A lot of negativism comes out. I'm trying not to be! I'm really working hard here.",
      "on the financial, agricultural and energy sectors and many other sectors. And that was supposed to spur growth because the people working or owning pieces of those sectors said they couldn't grow because there were so many regulations that would cost them money. On the other hand however it puts all of us at risk when there are no regulations. Well the other thing about",
      "cuts in economic downturn you know how many farmers have committed suicide since 2018 no but i heard it was a bunch 452. 452 farmers the people who feed us and that's who feeds america our farmers yeah have uh committed suicide why because they just can't make a profit or living off of doing what has been being done in their families for generations any other positives",
      "here he wanted to because he wanted votes to spur the coal industry and it is true that the men and women who worked in that industry did not have enough skills to do anything else uh so you don't want them to die on the vine but they were dying anywhere anyway from inhaling cold dust",
      "on and pour some money into the coal industry. But, this society is shifting away from coal which is a very old fossil fuel source. It was China and India still consuming it. And that was positive. China and Indian are still consuming very heavily. So you know we've got a situation with politics 2020 where people have talked about some threats to democracy talk",
      "change happening Bernie Sanders is offering a revolution and then yeah I think it's not well thought through revolution but when you look at the situation as same politics as usual except for the insertion of the question who is John Galt those of you who read Anne Randall know what the references that I'm making is towards the issue we talk about things being different",
      "look at the candidates it's the same old white men and that's unaccepted who said an old man can't think an all-white man came thing that makes a very interesting question but you went from a very in the Democratic side the Republican side has always been wiped but I mean since Trump selection they had some kind of standin Carson",
      "But anyway on the Democratic side you had a healthy Diversity Men and women lots of diversity but the American populace and the Muslim populace in particular I mean cares report that came out here",
      "on American Islamic Relations came out with a report on 3-5 because they did a survey. And it's a very interesting survey because the American Muslim Voter Database that CARA has was developed by matching state records of registered voters with an extensive list of some 45,000 traditionally Muslim first and last names. I have no clue what",
      "I don't know a clue what that means in the United States of America. There were names, common names prevalent across the Muslim world's Muslim majority and ethnic groups were identified and verified by well-informed members. The pool of Muslim voters does not include Muslims when uncommon names are those who do not have traditionally Muslim names.",
      "African American, Latino Native American and white American Muslim voters were left out of this survey. But nevertheless the standings were interesting. You had 79% of those who responded to the survey say they cast ballots in this year's Super Tuesday which just happened and as you were mentioning earlier we're going",
      "51% of the Muslims are primarily affiliated as Democratic, with 17.5% with the Republican Party. So this is really an immigrant survey. And 24.5 as independent. By age, and this is where it's critical, and I think it shifts a little bit when you add in the indigenous population.",
      "58.2 voted for Bernie Sanders 26 for Joe Biden 5.4 for Michael Bloomberg Talk about percentages Right, 5.1 percent voted for Elizabeth Warren and then 1.4 For another candidate Now here's a woman running And what it says Is that this immigrant population is not willing To consider",
      "as viable a female candidate. Well that's not unusual and should not be a surprise because people who vote tend to vote their culture, and tend to devote their family traditions. Yeah but I mean you look at India and Pakistan they have had women leaders. Yeah, but over here it's you fit in if you suppress votes for females. We're Americans that's what we do at that level of politics.",
      "So as we were speaking earlier about the age, 70% of the Muslim voters between ages 18 and 34 supported Bernie Sanders. 16% supported Joe Biden. They're all in a whisper in age between the two. 42.6% between the ages 65-74 supported Bernie",
      "Bernie Sanders while 39.4 supported Joe Biden so we have to ask the question and I think it's important of what is Bernie Sanders putting out there many people have heard free college tuition free health care nothing is free in America by the way free this free that and free the other somebody has",
      "can't support 300 and some more, 400 million people's health care and education without taxing those who work 50 to 60 percent of their income. But do you think the voters be they immigrants or Americans? Indigenous, yeah. Indigenous have a clue what the candidate platforms are? No. How could you figure it out?",
      "do where are they getting the information if they don't have information where can they go to get it well one place is i looked at um and i hate to say this because i used to tell my students if i saw wikipedia listed as a source i was going to just give you an f straight up but wikopedia did a good job in this sense on political positions of the 2020 democratic party presidential primary candidates 15 at the time",
      "the time. Huh? There were 15 of them at the time right so what I did was I asked out all the ones that are no longer running and I looked Bernie Sanders and Joe Biden are very close on many issues you can't have free tuition for public colleges somebody has to pay the teachers there,",
      "Teachers who now you're telling them, you're going to get rid of tenure. You're going",
      "Because in many of these institutions, students' tuition even though it's low in public institutions, is still pays a large percentage of the cost of running the school. As does research and many other schools are public like UIC, public institution but its",
      "So a lot of its funds come from teachers getting class time off to write grants, getting those grants and doing the research you know to keep themselves going, to keep the college going etc. If you've got to flatten something out if you're gonna have free public tuition. Private schools is a different matter. What do you think?",
      "the candidates' positions has been revealed by following the layout of the 15 candidates and their positions. Following that, we're seeing nuances changes in the positions and stances as contributor sources change and as issues arise and as the allegations and verbal assaults against personalities",
      "it's changed their positions on some issues yeah well biden talks about partial uh where there's more government support and we don't have a situation like we had in illinois where they had difficulty getting money from the government for the pell grants so students weren't holding things they couldn't register for classes you know all of those things that when",
      "Federal dollars that come into play or even state dollars because the federal government inevitably is going to shift it on to the states. You know, when I hear people talk about federal dollars and state dollars, I remember my reaction to the commercials that the Army puts out in the Marine Corps. Yeah. At the end of the commercial says paid for by the United States Army. They don't have any money. The federal government doesn't have",
      "Yeah. Of course, now the federal government has been known to print more and more money of late, but the basic source of the money that they use to buy these things and make these mistakes with is my hard-earned tax dollars. And we're talking about this election as though it's typical and normal as far as process is concerned. But we know that there's a big, big emphasis this year again, even more so than before on donations, corporate versus public. Joe Biden's a",
      "recipient Donald Trump is others were that we're running in the race Bernie Sanders is supposedly a popular lead funded candidate but there's also money of people who have to choose between eating and funding you because they want to participate in the political system like they had this",
      "went up to Elizabeth Warren and said I have what was it eight or sixteen dollars, and I want so much for a woman to succeed in this election. I'll give you half. And Elizabeth Warren took it! How do you do that from a student? You put your hand out, you go back. And you walk away right? But the other part of the lack of normalcy",
      "intervention that's now possible by outside actors, outside actors in the international setting and influencing who votes and what voters' reactions are to candidates positions like the allegations of Russia and Ukraine. But they've always been there. Not to this extent supposedly though. Yeah but with the I don't want to say, I'll say enhancements",
      "rather than improvements because I don't know if they're truly improvements. Young men and women can learn the coding, the this, that, the other, and break in anywhere they want to break in. What is arguably most disheartening",
      "aiding and abetting. You know, I mean you can break in but that doesn't mean i have to help you by posting the propaganda on sites and all of that stuff. And Mr Zuckerberg ought to be ashamed of himself he really oughta. I mean that's horrible but it also leads into issues of net neutrality because",
      "love free. You put, and you can tell them 9000 times nothing is free. Right? But they still love the idea of free. And the net for the most part was free. Now everything if you're noticing the increase in apps that cost money. They're free for a minute and then they cost money to sample them, sample your looks",
      "You gotta go buy it at whatever rate it is because your fingers just walk right over to that app again. That's one thing that has not changed about the American culture, we're still capitalism based. This is a way to make money doing it and redo it. There's an interesting book talking about Google and Amazon and Apple called Surveillance Capitalism. I recommend that viewers who are interested in what's happening every time you send a message with your cell phone or go into an app or visit this site or visit that site",
      "Not only are you leaving cookies, but you're leaving habitual behavior behind that people are using to make profits off of your habits. Yeah. And we have some habits because we'll be doing one thing and click over on the app that's running in the margins. Oh my goodness those shoes look delicious. Oh let me check this out over here. As soon as you do that",
      "or crawl, whoever it is protection for you. You know and your off and running because you're chasing down some shoes that in the end you don't want anyway. I think the other thing that was really quite interesting was very little of these candidates jibber jabber has said anything about",
      "thing about foreign policy. Trump's foreign policy is clear, he wants the United States to go back to an isolationist policy predominantly only with those openings which of course helped",
      "worldwide organizations Which if you slash? aid which they're doing this flashing a almost by To countries who have come to depend on those eight that it and it's not like the United States hasn't benefited from plummeting and Pullaging those countries so they oughta give them something back. I think that's just me But you know, I agree with some of that age slashing",
      "I mean our assistance to Japan is not really needed anymore. Our assistance to South Korea's not really need it anymore and we have not been getting our return for our dollars that we had contributed to the UN so some of that I don't have any problem with. No, I think you should do the first thing he started with which is force other European countries to pay their fair share Don't pull out, you know and act like a spoiled child",
      "A spoiled child when you don't get your you know immediately people figuring out their pennies because they have Issues too, but when it comes to the Middle East South Asia and Southeast Asia We do get stuff all of those things lithium batteries All of those minerals used in all this technology And South Asian lots of",
      "ought to do something. I think one of the things we'll be large is health care also and healthcare like a, with we, the mantra is nothing is free in America. The countries that we get compared with Denmark, Sweden have a fraction of the population and a fraction",
      "Yes. Right. Oh my God. And nobody is talking, Trump was not being totally truthful when he said he was going to work on the drug cost. What next career? Next four years.",
      "So if we have same old, same old white men running for the office of president. And I do mean old. That old is not here for Mr. King. They are old. Given the corporate pro-voting tradition of Joe Biden and Bernie's pro-corporate interest perspective of Joe",
      "and uh trump's pro-corporate uh interest and the one guy that is running against um trump you know who you know was running against her anybody know the gop guys running against trump i forgot his name last name as well w e l d i think harold jay will look him up he's hanging in there how much is this platform it's about six feet up off the ground",
      "I don't remember exactly. I only found out about it fairly lately, so my question is given that traditional outcome no matter who you vote for as far as who's going to be elected what change can the electorate people in the electorates expect?",
      "Who truly could change things probably was Michael Bloomberg He had the money Has the money has the money. I only spent 1 billion out of 62 so yeah In terms of his record in New York is stellar and he didn't take anybody's money to do it in",
      "In terms of modifying student loan paybacks, school, I mean across the board. What he's tackled, he's gotten done because that was another question on the care survey was about $15 an hour. That's not a living wage. People cannot, men or women, whoever it is that's supporting your family, even if you're single,",
      "Given that rents are rising the cost of food is rising the class of utilities is right you cannot before taxes support a household being in apartment or house on $15 an hour Well, give me what he tried to do in New York. In some cases was able to do New York Why did you think it was?",
      "Elizabeth Warren who has a lot of baggage as far as plans. And is hysterical. Joe Biden, his corporate connections and some of the problems he had as Vice President under Obama, the Obama administration which has some problems. Or Bernie Sanders who hasn't passed not one bill. Yeah, the issue is... Congress said no, he will never pass a bill unless he does",
      "Because you'll be signing executive orders daily. What can people expect to happen if the op-doc is in play? Well, I think one of the things... And why did they vote like they did? Are they voting for Elizabeth Warren because of her stellar managerial style or Joe Biden because of his stalwart position? Everything is free.",
      "I did look into however one thing that is often omitted and that is judges Trump is busy his whole administration is busy nominating people to take over these federal getting them approved and getting them And that is Devastation for the Muslim community and any other living community when I hear that statement that you just made there's going to be devastation",
      "People say in this country. We are a nation of laws and not of men Or either on life support How about life support? I won't say it's buried but its own life support And if we don't bring in the respirator and face masks and all these other stuff and antibiotics",
      "people are in positions of judges to enforce those laws, what's the harm? What's the fear? Well you know one of the things that the administration has done thus far is not necessarily Donald Trump himself but they've done it in his name. Is they have explored with say for example immigration little pitfalls",
      "nobody has ever thought about. One of the things we had talked about in some other venues was the U.S. Patriot Act. Muslims themselves, even though the Patriot act is directed mostly toward them have forgotten it but it is the first really large hammer swung at the rule of law. Yeah and most people haven't read it. Well it's too thick for",
      "reading but maybe we'll do a show and pull out the sailing points. But before we go I want to talk about this, We Vote on March 17th here in Chicago so I went looking at judges and here's what i found um currently",
      "these people up and their records was for the Illinois Supreme Court was Justice P. Scott Neville, for the Appellate Court Michael Hyman and Sharon O'Johnson. I've tried to look and see because you know stuff is happening nobody knows you get to the voting booth and you say who are these people right so it becomes a thing of you really have",
      "go online and look up not just them but what have they done you know what is the incarceration rate how long are these sentences who do they target you know for these long sentences you mentioned the incarceration rates that's one of the new things with this year's election is a number of incarcerated people people were actually in jails",
      "are permitted to vote. So they represent a voting problem. Yeah, but you know the Trump administration is going back and trying to repeal all of that. So I think John... What is his name? Not John Legend. The singing artist. A number of folks. John Legend and all of them are ramping up their efforts to prevent",
      "Those of you who have, yeah it comes on cable MSNBC. One of the things that I think was done last night is one of the chefs is doing a thing on gerrymandering and voter suppression. And those things we don't have to read anything. We can sit back and listen to them. You mentioned one source for judges. I just want to mention there are others.",
      "There are others that are for Democrats as well as Republicans. There's information put up by the Democratic National Committee, the Republican National Committee. The Eagle Women Voters, Fox News, MSNBC, the NAACP and others. And my point is if you want to be a participant in an electorate know what you're doing. The basis of this success of this democracy so far to the degree it has been successful",
      "upon people who vote, who know what the heck it is they're doing. So if you're going to vote, know who you're voting for, otherwise you might be harming yourself. And if you work two jobs and don't have time to sit down and search the internet, you can listen to Radio Aslam's podcast called Conversations because eventually we will get to it! And other podcasts on Radio Asalam will get",
      "is to push the issues. Oh, this will be the final show on this subject as long as there's time between now and the election we'll be talking about the election 2020 and bringing you hopefully information that's helpful to making you an informed member of the U.S. electorate. Well, we have a couple minutes? We're at 35. Oh yeah, we've got about five minutes. Yeah, a lot of time. So... One thing we haven't mentioned",
      "sitting here as big of an hour on the branch. What about the coronavirus and what impact it's going to have on the electorate turnout? Is it a true conspiracy that somebody has set this thing in motion so they keep voters from the polls? Well, I don't know but i think that one of my close friends and I sat down today",
      "the sources for information and there's some things we figured out. The CDC cannot afford to be truthful it would set off an awesome panic and when you read... You're saying they can not afford to? They can not afford to be... So, you are saying that there is information out there that we need that we're being deprived of? Well, there's speculative information like how are you gonna know if someone has",
      "You know, the flu is rampaging. But most people have gotten themselves and their children vaccinated, right? So even if they catch the flu, they come down with a mild one. There is no vaccine as of yet for the coronavirus which is different if you look at the pictures on it. Johns Hopkins University put out a map to show you where the virus is ramping up.",
      "Their little places the BBC is a good source on The news as this France 24 and his own jazzeri 15 bucks an hour. You don't have BBC 15 bucks in our you don't",
      "I don't have access. So how do those people know about that? I don' t know. One, I know, I had one suggestion and one answer. They find out because the Muslims as well as other groups of the members of the electorate have been doing a stalwart job putting together town hall meetings and voter information drives around the country. And if you Well, that's kind of getting a little scarce because people have to be six feet apart.",
      "until now. They've done a good job. Check the local community and see if you find something that they're doing, you'll see some of their signs posted in libraries and public places and go visit stay six feet away don't shake hands and don't kiss cheek to cheek and go find out what's happening. Well I think the other thing is as Muslims we need",
      "I'm sure that there are several ways we can view ourselves in this situation. One of the things is, in societies like ours, we become extremely narcissistic in a sense that we do what concerns us without any care for our fellow man. And that's not what our guidance tells us to do. Wash your hands.",
      "wash your hands if you're gonna sneeze sneezing your elbow or wherever or tissue these are minor things and it's only for a short period of time a lot gives us um little snippets of stories about people who were tested far longer than us but we're railing at a little bitty test think all the people where we're screaming because there are no uh face masks",
      "on the shelves. Oh my God, they run out of hand sanitizer. Well think about the places in the world where there is no hand sanitizer, never has been any hand sanitizer or clean water or a face mask I think that it's time for us to show what we claim that we have which is compassion by not doing only",
      "Only what we have to do that is necessary and also for self-reflection Regarding what is it about your house? You don't like so much that you got to be out of it all the time Even when you don't have to be And then the important thing to remember as muslims that is that we are supposed to be in the earth That's where adam was posted because god said that he's going to put a khalifa in the Earth",
      "after Adam was trained and did the Arguments with Iblis in the Shaitan he was posted in there And for me that means he was told hey once you know what you're doing Once you are an informed member of the electorate a citizen like a electorate and a citizen You ought to be in the earth. You oughta be socially engaged civically engaged So the Muslims have been trained by the Quran and the example of the Prophet",
      "better people, those Christians who are like us and those Jews who follow the same pattern, are the best people to try to resolve or mediate the issues and conflicts in the world. But how do you do this though when Muslims are under surveillance? And they can't decide because they're completely under stressed out. Well the thing about it is we're going",
      "a religious community, under surveillance. Everything is being surveilled. Their kids are being surveillled. Their homes are being surveyed. Their telephones are being serviled. How do you do the social engagement? And there are many ways to do that. Many other communities have been under surveillance... African Americans had the same thing on the COINTELPRO being surveil- Oh we're always under surveillance!...shot and spies put into their organization",
      "organization, have done had the same thing happen. What they did was they tried to pursue the programs that they felt were effective for the general public according to the law and as long as they tried do that the court eventually came around says the persecution that we suffered it was unjust and it got cut back. It didn't get limited but it got back. The big thing is do the best thing you know you should be doing try to avoid the crazy things of this culture engenders in you",
      "and pray to Allah that He makes it easy for you. Well, I think the other thing we've got to do is our own internal housecleaning. Many of the young men and women who actually engage in rhetoric of ISIS, what is this rhetoric all about? Why is it compelling? What are we not in our various ethnic communities providing",
      "that makes such a driving need to look for something else. So I think we can do that in another program or two.",
      "that are natural and good like recreational sports, things of that nature. And support them in the good things they're doing. The country is better off when Muslim kids are able to do the good thing that they're trained to do. With that it's been great as usual. Well I hope we got some sense out of it because this has been a very interesting dangerous",
      "concerning elections so far. And I told you about the book Surveillance Capitalism, and I'll tell you about another book. Not so much on a positive note, but it's one of two books written by Timothy Snyder. The first book is On Tyranny, and this one is called The Road to Unfreedom. And what it does is answers the question that if you're under surveillance, if you've been oppressed",
      "have been done historically to get the monkey off your back. God willing. And we'll review these books in future podcasts. Assalamualaikum. Waalaikumsalam warahmatullahi wabarakatuhu."
    ]
  },
  {
    "file": "amina_mccloud/Critical Talk with Prof_ Aminah Al-Deen_5SutaMdObBM&pp=ygUVQW1pbmFoIE1jQ2xvdWQgIGlzbGFt0gcJCb0Ag7Wk3p_U_1742899161.opus",
    "text": [
      "Good evening. This is Professor Aminah Aldean, and I am just really enjoying the fact that I am joined by three esteemed chaplains who have agreed to have a conversation with me tonight about university chaplaincy. Dr. Aminat Darwish is the Muslim",
      "is the Muslim Life Coordinator at Columbia University in New York. She's earned Ijazahs and traditional Islamic studies certifications from the Qualum Seminary in Dallas, and the Critical Loyalty Seminar in Toronto, Ontario guys. She has also studied individually under different scholars from all over the world.",
      "and chemical engineering before switching careers. And I love this part, to follow her true passion for community building. Omar Bajwa is the director of Muslim life in the chaplain's office at Yale University. He has engaged in religious service, social activism, interfaith engagement, and educational outreach since 2000.",
      "His interests include Islam in the United States, inter-religious engagement, Islamic global media and interactions between culture politics and spirituality. Hajra Sharif last on this list is an Amama chaplain. Hajro Shariff holds a bachelor's degree in philosophy and economics",
      "from Wesley College and a master's in Islamic studies with both academic and traditional training. She also studied in and visited various Muslim cultures, including Jordan, Malaysia, Palestine, Turkey, and Indonesia. Oh my goodness, such an esteemed group. I can just go over to the side",
      "and let you all roll with it but let me um start out with you know that chaplaincy has a very deep rooted christian heritage and it is only been very recently than others were even considered right and christians of course thought they can mentor to anybody anytime anywhere",
      "anywhere, any place. So what I'm going to ask you is how do you understand that history? Have you taken up the ball of that history ministering to anybody anywhere or have you decided to minister to Muslim students? You can all answer at once.",
      "take time. Let's start with Amina. It is such an honor to be here with Professor Amina, I think part of it is just going back to the history of our institutions themselves. Colombia is older than the country itself there's a long history there with colonialism, with slavery, with just a lot of the dark parts of American history so just even coming through all of that we were originally",
      "And now we are a secular university that is trying to figure itself out. And this is just another layer of us trying to find ourselves as a country, an institution. We do do a lot of interfaith work. I think it's really important to engage with people of other religions partially for our own students to learn about other traditions but also so that we're engaging with the religious tapestry of America.",
      "most part and all of our programs are the majority of our program is Muslim specific programs. But the interface space is so rich and interesting, I really love it. Hadira? Can you repeat the question? You know that I'm a very young woman. And I'll forget a question in a minute. Okay. I do have a sense what the question was, so I will just answer that.",
      "So you talked about how chaplaincy originated from the history of the Christian tradition. And while I understand that to be true, it has since evolved to include people of all religious and spiritual traditions. So with respect to Islam we see that Muslim chaplain in the United States began in the prisons as a form of law or outreach.",
      "that was something that the Nation of Islam was very much into. But more recently, post 9-11 this work has evolved to focus on interfaith between Muslims and non-Muslims. And I actually like to take it a step further by not only engaging in interfaithe but also multicultural dialogue because the difference between the two in my opinion is you know, interfaite kind of focuses",
      "differences and finding common ground but multiculturalism, multicultural dialogue also you know acknowledges power differences and centers historically marginalized voices so and that includes Muslim voices. So in some sense there is this shift away from needing to prove",
      "religion, which is kind of the approach taken in the early days of post 9-11. So in this new space I found that in particular my work i'm trying to center Muslims a little bit more and I do that by focusing on three things strengthening Muslim identity engaging in multicultural dialogue and contributing to anti-racist work by countering Islamophobia so I hope to expand",
      "for both strengthening Muslim identity as well as engaging in soldier-hosted work. Omar, chime in please. Sure. Bismillahirrahmanirrahim everyone. Thank you so much to my colleagues and friends. Just fantastic comments. So many threads to sort of tease out there I'll jump in with two quick points. The first is I definitely appreciate the beginning of the question is that it's very imperative for us to know the history of the genealogy rather than how we got here. So in my reading, I've been at Yale for 12 going on 13 years now",
      "years now. My reading of this, Yale also like Columbia is an ancient institution so to speak and so the genealogy is very much out of a liberal protestant framework right? And so where I just to jump into it where I see the intersection with our work is by us a reading or a study of our tradition of our own prophetic tradition from the Nabi ﷺ is that the work of pastoral care is like in the DNA of the ministry of the Prophet ﷺ so to",
      "literally just the way everything that he cared for and took care of in the community is that I think it's work. What we're bringing through in all of our respective ministries is an inflection of that, right? And so, and then the second point that I'll briefly make is that you know, we have incredible they're fascinating threads, right, of prison chaplaincy military hospital but we all work in the, were privileged to work in",
      "incredibly talented, driven ambitious young Muslims who are going through as Shabba Hadra said issues of exploring their identity and so we're there to sort of in the chaplaincy language walk with them along that journey right? And be there as friends, as interlocutors, as empathetic listeners, as non-anxious presence. And then as when appropriate really being deep dialogue right with them. And which was pretty said before is at same time a flip side of our chaplains work",
      "is that we are in many ways the Muslim interlocutor to the broader university community, right? Whether it's about issues of Islam and environmentalism, Islam and human rights, Islam anti-black racism work or anti racist works. So these are privileged positions that we in fact have so. Okay I wanna dig down a little deeper and play the angel's advocate. In this country,",
      "supposed to have a kind of wall of separation between church and state. Religious institutions, of course, promote religion. Secular institutions, however, are not supposed to support religion. So let me get a little deeper. I don't care if you're Muslim. If you went to",
      "You're supposed to be there learning biochemical engineering, chasing fruit flies, learning something about history. Your feeding your soul is supposed to happen in another space. Talk to me chaplains. I'll just jump in. Thank you very much for the question.",
      "I think that mindset or that line of thinking is common, like I've heard it many times. What I would gently sort of redirect, instead of saying pushback, is that I think it's not – it's a little bit short-sighted because we're all complex individuals, right? Race, gender, ethnicity, religious identity, spiritual identity, linguistic identity. We're all made up of different parts.",
      "stick, right? That walk into a university that are going to absorb this knowledge and walk out after four years with a BA or six years of the PhD. I think just isn't honest to an experience. And so we have people at this very formative intellectual emotional growth period in their late teens, early twenties they're going through a lot, right. They're processing engaging with the world and spiritual is as important as their ethnic identity, their racial identity.",
      "I think the part of a beauty of a liberal arts education is actually engaging that seriously with those ideas, right? Is that people are complex and liberal arts talk about human condition. And this is what asked to be human condition and so. That's great. Adra chime in. Sure. I think that what you were getting at the separation of church and state is actually only relevant to public universities private colleges",
      "public universities colleges uh do hire chaplains and um there actually is a way for public uh for people for religious communities to fund their own chaplins at public colleges and universities and i actually encourage muslim community to organize and start funding because you know in this space muslim students you know they don't have a lot of",
      "have a lot of administrative support, people who understand the needs of Muslims especially in this climate of Islamophobia and just having an authoritative figure on campus who understands and can advocate for the needs that are most critical for their long-term growth. College years are formative years of identity so not having that support system in place early on can be damaging in the long run for the Muslim community",
      "I just hope that we can organize ourselves and start understanding the importance of having a presence on college campuses. But Amina, my God, there are over 1,000 faith traditions. Are we going to have a chaplain for each one? Are we gonna have authority figures advocating for each",
      "whole selves to campus in the spirit of inclusion, if there's a large enough group of students they have to be able to have their religious identities just acknowledged. If there is a student that is only eating halal or vegetarian food or kosher food and you don't serve it to them then you're saying you don' t get to eat at the dining hall. How can we do that for tens of thousands",
      "afford to do that for every dietary wish, every prayer wish, everything? Do they then get out of the business of teaching subjects for careers and professions and cross that line and get into the business",
      "Columbia University who has never in their life engaged with someone that has a different dietary need, has missed part of the learning they should have gotten at a global campus. Has missed part even just understanding and this is even with our interfaith dialogue it isn't about hey I'm going to bring a sanitized version of me no I will bring my whole self tell you exactly how I feel if I can't do that then the university",
      "allowing the students to bring their whole selves. The idea of secularism is based on we're not the default religion that was there, and the default religious that was again these white male Episcopal priests. And need to create a space for everyone else to say okay even if we are not choosing one religion we will still acknowledge the existence of different religions I think universities as big as Columbia have at least 15 religious life advisors",
      "advisors on campus and I think it's so fascinating. Half of them are different Christian sex, which is also interesting because when we say we're going to do interfaith work with the Christians they're like well which ones? How do we talk about orthodoxy within even the Christian traditions and how do we engage? And it just creates for a richer educational experience I think. Just on that note I want to jump in with a quick thought thank you so much is that sort",
      "hear chaplain Amina's words are really in the when we talk about the project of education is that we want to include it in the include in that conversation, the idea of religious literacy. So she said it so beautifully is that if you go through four years at a selective institution and you've never had exposure to difference I mean that I think something it leaves a lot to be desired in what the faculty and the people who design curriculums are doing those institutions because",
      "have professional schools, right? You just have vocational schools. I don't mean to knock that out. There's definitely a very important place for that. Then we're not calling it university education, right. That's a very singular track of education where you go and you get sort of a product at the end of it. And I think university education is much more about diversity and inclusion. And then the other thing I just want to add in there to Amina's point is that in our respective institutions",
      "institutions like these are were part of the colonial projects in some way right is that yale was modeled off of oxford and cambridge which were part",
      "So in 250 years of its history, it was a male only – a white male institution. This is imperative now in the moment that we live and that we reorganize dismantle and redistribute power in these institutions. Okay. We're going to take a few second break here and come back with Hajra to jump into this conversation.",
      "Hadira, jump in. Sure I just wanted to make one additional point in the way that you framed your question about well can we accommodate for all of these other religions?",
      "Like, why is it such a problem? Accommodating for the needs of marginalized people. Well one reason- Positive. Class if you accommodate everybody's religious day. Right but in terms of dietary restrictions, it's very easy to accommodate that there's not a huge cost to doing something. Well, it looks expensive.",
      "I mean, not necessarily. There's not too many dietary restrictions in general. I mean buying halal chicken versus normal. We have vegans. We vegetarians. I don't want to take the mic from you, Hadra. I'm sorry. But we actually have an example at Yale if you don't mind me sharing for the good of the group. So several years ago I was in conversation with Yale Dining",
      "with Yale Dining. And long story short, they redid their whole strategic plan and business plan. And alhamdulillah, one of the things was a resource ethically produced produce and ingredients as much as possible in their dining halls. Part of that plan, they actually found halal meat suppliers that met their strategic point. So the point is that at Yale, in all of its 14 residential college dining halls, we actually have halal chicken as a default. Halal chicken and beef on the line,",
      "which is actually meets all the criteria for all of the different things that they want to look at. But to the other point, and then I'm sorry, Farajara, for taking the mic from you. Is that we're living in an age now where dining professionals take a lot of this very seriously, where there's every menu item that you go into a dining hall has allergen information, right? If you have shellfish allergy, if you have a peanut allergy,",
      "cages to religious groups is that if you're vegan, if you vegetarian, if eat halal, if there's alcohol present in an ingredient most colleges now will actually list that because they care very much about the health and well-being of students. So this I think interacts very well with that but please give the mic back.",
      "things that i've heard is from the workers and trying to tend to what they perceive of is the food of foreigners having the cost from students the cost of meal cards and stuff going up because then you have many more vendors than you had originally and for the poor that's exorbitant",
      "And while it might be nice for those who can afford it, it is not so nice for many minority students who have to pay higher costs as they serve the desires of others. That's true but having said that part of the struggle is a lot of so at Columbia a lot",
      "every incoming freshman is required to be on the dining plan. And if they are on the planning, especially during Ramadan, if they don't get halal food, they're essentially paying for food that they cannot eat. And this is true of a lot of other students and I'm really grateful for the dining staff at Columbia that I think we have four Jane's students that are on a strict vegan diet and they get accommodated those four students because again",
      "Because again, it would have been insane to try to make all of it vegan. So instead what they did is these specific students have a relationship with the staff and they essentially give them a heads up before they come into the dining hall. No, I think those things are always accommodated but I'm just thinking about the numbers of students whose meal plans I've paid for because as the meal plans went up",
      "went up to accommodate students from other places, they used their meal cards up very quickly and then were hungry. And I think that smacks a little bit of an elitism that smacked off a little but of ethnocentrism that's smacks of a little racism that's not being dealt with here.",
      "It's not so nice. I apologize, I didn't mean to cut you off. I think it's a fascinating conversation and dimension to all of this is the economics of higher education which in some ways totally needs to be... We need to have that hard conversation about why are the costs going up across the board in higher education where it's actually becoming unaffordable for the majority of people in this country. And I'm not an economist but I read in The Chronicle of Higher Ed",
      "But Hasbro is an economist. Hasbro. Okay, are we going to get to a point where it's literally going to price out the majority of people in the country? Exactly.",
      "that they are trying from the conversations I'm privy to, and I'm very mindful of the fact that I am at a ridiculously privileged and elite institution. Like I put that up front, right? Yale is not, it's the 1%, right? It's not most colleges in the country. But what they try to do in many of these places is they want to give a living wage to their workers, right, and so gets into complex issues of you have to raise labor costs go up which at some level has been filtered down",
      "et cetera and i look more complex than that um because also in addition to the economics it's back to what all of you have talked about about liberal education you're forcing me an evangelical christian to be mindful of what i serve a muslim or jew or vegan or whatever else",
      "serving food. I'm a human being with my own religious proclivities. Hydra, jump in. Well, when you mentioned Christian these public institutions they're not funded by Christians. These are public institutions therefore they need to accommodate for the public it's not about Christians needing",
      "non-Christians. But public institutions are funded by many Christian groups. Right, but when you fund a public institution your self interests don't matter at that point. There's never a time when an American's self interest don't manver. Never. I mean it's not supposed to. It is a public",
      "the public interest not specifically but most homes are teeny tiny teeny tiny part of it is in public interest to be accommodating to everyone and creating an open society because in the long term this just creates better society you have to look at education they gain in other ways if you're just fixated on this tiny thing about oh giving you know a small accommodation we will miss out",
      "of creating a cosmopolitan culture, et cetera. And this is the same line of reasoning that people use whether we should support welfare programs or not. Again it's about the public good and then like the societal benefits, the intangible societal benefit that- Exactly. Amina? I think because Colombia can actually buy food at bulk, it actually becomes cheaper than some of the food in the surrounding area except for of course the halal cart. The halal",
      "always standard the cheapest food that you can get. But apart from that, if you want quality food, the assumption is the Muslim students wouldn't be paying for food anyway. In fact, the university is just taking in those dollars their students apart from the freshmen because they expect you to buy a ton of meal plans. Students, a lot of the other students even graduate students opted into the dining plan because it was cheaper for them per meal than it was to just be eating out",
      "in a surrounding area that is very pricey. Yeah, well let's move on. What other religious traditions have each of you studied in your role as a chaplain? Could you repeat the question please? What other religions traditions have you studied",
      "I mean, I'll just jump in real quick and then I defer to my friend and colleagues here. You know, in my training, I went to Hartford Seminary. I'm a graduate of Hartford seminary. And so it's originally a Christian institution that has much more of an ecumenical approach now. And through my work at Cornell when I was doing a master's in Islamic studies, you know, I took Hebrew Bible New Testament and then obviously I went",
      "I've had exposure. And then in work at Yale, we have on staff again because of the nature of how we're very fortunate is I have a colleague that's a Hindu director of Hindu life and a director of Buddhist life. So I have close working relationships with the Buddhist chaplain and the Hindu chaplain so in my dozen plus years on the job, I learned a lot and continue to learn in my work with Hindu and Buddhist communities on campus.",
      "I agree. I think there's a certain level of privilege that we have, but most other people don't that we can...I have a friend that is a Hindu chaplain that I can call up at any point and ask about any specific thing. I have the same working relationship with Christian Jewish and Buddhist ministers and all them and just say, Hey, this is what's happening. Before we had a Hindu Chaplin on campus, I had an Indian student come to my office and he's Hindu. And he was like, my Brown parents are really disappointed in me. I'm like so are mine.",
      "And he came home and we had this conversation because for a lot of our conversations with students, yes it's somewhat within a religious framework but just as human beings there are certain struggles that are very similar. Yeah. There was no point where he felt like I was trying to push Islam on him nor was he trying to put Hinduism on me but at the same time we were trying to find common ground of how can we have a difficult conversation with our parents? How do we do this? Alhamdulillah my parents have since come around",
      "come around and i just it was a fascinating conversation to have with the student alhamdulillah now we do have a hindu chaplain that he can go to but i still have now have a relationship with the students that i don't think i would have otherwise oh yeah so i actually have a background in islamic studies i've studied islam for five plus years um so my concentration obviously",
      "you know, in some readings I would not claim myself to be an expert. But I've also read in depth the works of Nasser and other Perennialist writers. And I think that sort of perspective is beneficial as a chaplain because we're supposed to be speaking widely to people from a perspective of shared common, shared values, shared spiritual wisdom, et cetera. And it's not so much still important",
      "when it comes to different religions for more of how we can unite under these common values. And so my background in these plenum readings was very helpful in my chaplaincy job also just like others have mentioned learning on the job, interacting with the other chaplains in everyday sense not necessarily informal interfaith events but those everyday conversations that you had with people they really open up windows because",
      "you're not going to forget that stuff because it's rooted in words. Whereas if you read something in a book and you don't have anything to root it in, you could easily forget it. So just having that human connection has been instrumental in me gaining a wider perspective and understanding the other religious traditions. I think that's great because a lot of people think that the only thing Muslim chaplains do is Muslim stuff. And it's important for them to hear",
      "guys are not told on the walkway. You're in everything and conferring with your colleagues. Now, Omar will take you out of this conversation for a minute. And I'm going to ask the women chaplains. We have serious issues with women because, Omar, of men all over the Muslim world.",
      "Now you show up as chaplains with jobs, draw salary, with authority, with responsibility. Talk to me ladies. I think my first week on campus four of the male students asked when we were going to hire a khatib and the first one I just started. The second one was confused.",
      "it's gonna be a while. And Alhamdulillah to their credit, those same four students came around and started attending halaqas and became involved in a way that I was very grateful. And they didn't just dismiss me offhand. There are some students that would but at the same time, I feel like it gave me space to have conversation. There're a lot of women that have been disenfranchised from the Muslim community and it put me in a really good position",
      "position to try to bring them back in and i remember actually in the last month i think i had three different women of different ages and have different very different experiences that said this was the first time that they have felt that islam could be for them but allah could love them yeah isn't that something all the muslims are men and the women i don't know what they do",
      "I studied Islam and I was looking for something to do with it. If I was a man, you could try to be an imam at a mosque or get invited to speak at things. And there's lots of opportunities but for a woman it's so much more difficult. And so this was one of the few outlets for someone like myself.",
      "That's something that I had to deal with kind of on the first day. And also just questions about leading prayer and all of these things, it's how do you deal with those questions? What stance you decide to take can have real world consequences, right? You might divide your community but at the same time we need to stand up for social justice in women. So like where is the balance, right. And sometimes you might decide that, you know what,",
      "to do this. I'm going to lead this prayer or whatever and even if you disagree with me, you're gonna...I hope that we can create a culture of tolerance because the inconvenience that the majority experiences because they see something new or something new is happening is not even close",
      "gain if they go outside of the grain and you know do things that are counter to culture. So yeah, and that's actually why I go by the name imama as well chaplain because you know authority is granted through these titles and so if you don't use these titles you're in some sense diminishing your own authority and i have had just as much training as some of these other people who call themselves Imams or whatever and",
      "also this title of imam and i think amina needs that as well my one of my male students actually started the imamana which i thought was hilarious it kind of stuck i love it ladies i'm going to use it and push it out there i think one of the things on many campuses and especially with i'm gonna put this out there and we're gonna take another quick break",
      "is the diversity of students. African-American Muslim students have often felt left out as have Chinese Muslims students, as have well not so much white Muslims but Latino Muslims too. So I'm gonna give you a few seconds to think about that and we're going to go to break.",
      "i think i beat him in terms of taking a station break but nevertheless your comments what can we do",
      "to change this dynamic? I think we have to embed it in our programming. We made a point to make sure that at least one speaker every year that we invited was Black, at least on speaker that we invite every year was Shia, to make the students see themselves represented also in their religious authority. This is our signature program called",
      "program was called Ramadan Around the World. And it's the first time that Ramadan is going through the school year and it was so much fun because what we did is we had cultural groups take each taken iftad where they are dressing up, if they want, they are talking about their culture and they're ordering food from that specific, from their specific culture. And again, we had someone to be like, oh yeah of course Columbia has the money to do this. And I'm like look Jollof rice is not more expensive than biryani. It's just not.",
      "We are just going out of our way to make sure that different cultures are celebrated. The Black student organization, Muslim and non-Muslim alike, attended all like we had a Somali night, a Senegalese night and an African American night where we ordered soul food. And we're lucky enough to be in New York where you can just order food from everywhere. But students were coming because this was a space where their culture was celebrated in a positive and affirming way.",
      "students are talking about their historical traditions regarding the Shi'a. Students did the same thing where we had the Irani night and they were eating kubeda, and we're drinking like saffron tea, like everybody is really enjoying the Iqbal but we heard that she had them for the first time for a lot of the students. We wrote back a little later if you are unfamiliar with these traditions maybe college should be",
      "once a year that you see the beautiful tapestry of the American Muslim community in a way that is fun, that is engaging, that just results in really good food. Jump in. I mean, I just want to jump in with what Chapman Amina was saying. She articulated so beautifully with actually concrete examples. What came to my mind to your question was really this is the work of DEI, right? Diversity, Equity and Inclusion.",
      "equity and inclusion. And so we need to be deeply engaged, and on the ground in that kind of work with our partners on campuses people that work in cultural centers, people that working student affairs, people who work religious affairs as equal contribution partners interlocutors right saying that we absolutely need to create this space for the Latinx community on campus for the native indigenous community on Campus, the black community on",
      "We're blessed if we take our work seriously to have such an incredible, and that word is so beautiful. The tapestry of the beauty of the Muslim world is that we represent the most multicultural and multi-ethnic religious community arguably on a college campus in 2020. In terms like just the kind of engagement we have, the levels of engagement, the diversity within our communities that come... And this has been mentioned before but that's what I think is that",
      "our work seriously and i'll be the first one to point at myself as needing to do better is um is that it can be transformative so uh that's what I would kind of thoughts that come to mind to your question. And on the previous question, I very much appreciate how we need to grapple with the gender issues head-on and so I want to listen more than speak. Yeah so I agree you know with everything that was said",
      "said and you know I mean what you said about representing different ethnicities in uh different genders in uh you know the speakers that are invited, and i think the MSA has done a great job with that. But what I do specifically as a chaplain because you know what the MSC does is not what Ido necessarily is that I make it a point to reach out to Chia black Muslims or anyone else who may be marginalized in the community. And I spend time talking to them in office hours",
      "a support system when they need it. And that just helps make them feel a little bit more welcome and accepted in the Muslim community. I just make it a point to go out of my way, and make sure that they have that personal relationship with me so that if something happens in the MSA or in the greater Muslim body, we can ask someone to turn to and they're not alone. So that's specifically what I do.",
      "Okay, I want to turn to the more sensitive side. Oh, Amala gave me that look. Okay, so sex before marriage, pornography, the alphabet crowd, my parents have driven me to my wit's end, I've been bullied and I might commit suicide. How?",
      "How are we to deal with these things, which are also a part of that maturation process? Don't everybody jump at once. I mean, I always have a lot to say and I talk too much so I don't want to be the first one to jump in. We know how to shut you up, Omar. Don't worry. Just go for it. No, no, thank you. What I would say is one of the things",
      "One of the things that comes to mind, and then I'll hand it over is that really our training equips us or should equip us to listen more than we speak. Right? Especially in the beginning. And part of the essence of what it means to be a chaplain, to be pastoral presence is to be non-anxious, nonjudgmental presence on campus in these students' lives because we're well aware with all the things you mentioned reality of contemporary culture, right? That young people are faced with this onslaught, right,",
      "right? And we can unpack that at so many levels. But we want to be ideally inshallah the person in life or the group of people in their life, when they walk through the door, we meet them where they're at, right? That we sit down, we listen, we ask reflective questions, we asked deep questions and do we do deep listening? And so we kind of walk on that journey with",
      "helping them come through unpacking these issues themselves. That's what I would lead with and then there are some people you build a longer relationship with, they want to actually help them untangle these kinds of problems and they will be looking for answers so it really depends on the type of student and the type crisis that they're in. Anybody else? I think there is two parts to this but there was a study about more than 50% of Muslim youth",
      "youth and Muslim college students have had premarital sex, have tried alcohol. I mean again more than half of our Muslim students in a post 9-11 world were bullied at school, issues of substance abuse. These things exist in the larger Muslim community at very high rates and we have to acknowledge that they are part of our communities as well. There was a beautiful story of a companion at the time of the Prophet's life send him that kept showing up to the masjid of the prophet's life sent them drunk",
      "and I can't picture someone showing up to our masjid looking like that because the rest of the Muslim community would just attack them. And there was a, during this time one of the other companions he started speaking ill of this man and the Prophet got angry at him and said he has to fight the shaitan and he has deal with you don't support the shaytan against your brother He's here because he loves Allah and his prophet So the notion that someone that is",
      "May Allah protect us from this idea that there's ever going to be a sin that is beyond the mercy of Allah. It's just ridiculous. And it's so unfortunately rampant in this part of the religious crowd of like, okay I didn't commit this sin therefore you how dare you? Yeah.",
      "that I have a right to attack someone else and to not try to understand how and why they ended up, what led them to this and how we can help people heal. A lot of the times these are based in maybe unresolved trauma or based in an experience that they still need to understand and process. And it's part of our job, Chaplain Amar's point, to just be that pastoral presence to help them through. Actually there was a point where I had",
      "I almost try to communicate to my students. I'm like, you don't confess your sins to me? That's not the point. The point is where have you been so that we can walk along this journey together? Hazra? Yeah, so I would actually echo some of the sentiments that Omer mentioned already in terms of centering listening and making sure to build a relationship with students. Sometimes if you try to give advice prematurely it can backfire",
      "That student is, you don't know what their orientation is. There's so much diversity in Islam. They are Muslims who take the position that having a boyfriend or girlfriend before marriage is halal. And so you do need to respect other people's perspectives. And as a chaplain, we're sort of supposed to be more in this neutral space. But at the same time, we are counselors. We give counsel. And being able to strike that balance",
      "balance is hard and you just need to have like a really great relationship with that person to know where that balance is. Sometimes, you might feel that okay you can tell this person your opinion of what you think Islam would say because you think they will accept that in Asiha for others you might not be able to and you'd just have to be more respectful and tolerant",
      "not interested in your perspective, maybe give them resources on other perspectives that might be aligned with where they're at. You all are so mature in your professions that I would be remiss if I didn't call you back again because some of the things",
      "because they're riding these kids like, what's that dude's name on the horse in the Wide Wild West? Trying to protect them from everything. But riding them so hard, they're driving them to stuff. I'm going to give you all the last say because my merciless producers are telling me that I have to go away. So I'm gonna give you a last say and we'll start with Hajra.",
      "So just last comments. Yeah, so yeah, the points that I want to reiterate is just you know, I hope that Muslim community understands the importance of chaplaincy to begin with especially on educational spaces there's just so much Islamophobia right now we are a marginalized community",
      "sometimes some aspects are at odds with, you know greater cultural norms and just having that a mentor in an authoritative space on campus just would make the biggest difference in students' lives. And so that's number one. Number two I think the Muslim community needs to be open to listening to the perspectives of women",
      "leadership positions. Sometimes, you know, there is this fear of like Westernization or, you",
      "might see things differently, Muslim woman. It might not be an issue of Westernization this issue of women leadership in religious positions is a challenge that Muslim women who are authentically Muslim are facing and so we should give more space to listen to them. I have to stop you so I can give a minute to each of our other guests.",
      "I wanted to say that college is the time in people's lives when for the first time you're away from your parents and it's up to you to either choose Islam for yourself or not. And we see great Muslim leaders, people like Congressman Keith Ellison who is now the Attorney General of Minnesota and really just how important his role is in the current moment that we are experiencing he became a Muslim at college. What we're building is the roots for Muslim Americans",
      "And what is incredible about the chaplain space, it actually does include women. It includes black chaplains and really just celebrates the tapestry of the Muslim American community in a way that everybody is part of the Ummah and celebrated and still fighting the same good fight for each other. It's so beautiful. Thank you. Last word, Omar? One minute. I can't follow what they said.",
      "I'm simply going to put out there that, you know, from where I'm coming from, I think, you the life of the Prophet. Right? And so how can we in our capacities as chaplains on campuses embody and exemplify, right. That prophetic love and mercy and compassion that he gave not only to the Sahaba but to the world, right, to the Ummah. And so in our Salaf Mal slice that we inhabit on college campuses and inshallah beyond is",
      "to nurture hearts and to embody that mercy. And I think that's really at the heart of our work, as my amazing colleagues have already said and demonstrated. It's about relationship building. Thank you. I'm going to end with that I'm bringing all of you back. And what I would like for you to do, and I will chase you down, have no fear. One I would",
      "college administrators, and Muslim chaplaincy programs. So if you would think about those things, I will be on your email shortly. This is Critical Talk with Professor Amin Al-Din. I have had a wonderful evening, and I forgot the word already, but to the ladies, I am so glad to see you. Omar,",
      "you omar glad to see you again after a while and you all have just been wonderful assalamu alaikum"
    ]
  },
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    "text": [
      "Good evening. This is Professor Aminah Aldean, and I am just really enjoying the fact that I am joined by three esteemed chaplains who have agreed to have a conversation with me tonight about university chaplaincy. Dr. Aminat Darwish is the Muslim",
      "is the Muslim Life Coordinator at Columbia University in New York. She's earned Ijazahs and traditional Islamic studies certifications from the Qualum Seminary in Dallas, and the Critical Loyalty Seminar in Toronto, Ontario guys. She has also studied individually under different scholars from all over the world.",
      "and chemical engineering before switching careers. And I love this part, to follow her true passion for community building. Omar Bajwa is the director of Muslim life in the chaplain's office at Yale University. He has engaged in religious service, social activism, interfaith engagement, and educational outreach since 2000.",
      "His interests include Islam in the United States, inter-religious engagement, Islamic global media and interactions between culture politics and spirituality. Hajra Sharif last on this list is an Amama chaplain. Hajro Shariff holds a bachelor's degree in philosophy and economics",
      "who go from Wesley College and a master's in Islamic studies with both academic and traditional training. She also studied in and visited various Muslim cultures, including Jordan, Malaysia, Palestine, Turkey, and Indonesia. Oh my goodness, such an esteemed group. I can just go over to the side",
      "and let you all roll with it. But let me start out with, you know that chaplaincy has a very deep-rooted Christian heritage. And it is only been very recently that others were even considered, right? And Christians of course thought they can mentor to anybody anytime anywhere",
      "anywhere, any place. So what I'm going to ask you is how do you understand that history? Have you taken up the ball of that history ministering to anybody anywhere or have you decided to minister to Muslim students? You can all answer at once.",
      "take time. Let's start with Amina. It is such an honor to be here with Professor Amina, I think part of it is just going back to the history of our institutions themselves. Colombia is older than the country itself there's a long history there with colonialism, with slavery, with just a lot of the dark parts of American history so just even coming through all of that we were originally a Christian institution",
      "And now we are a secular university that is trying to figure itself out. And this is just another layer of us trying to find ourselves as a country, an institution. We do do a lot of interfaith work. I think it's really important to engage with people of other religions partially for our own students to learn about other traditions but also so that we're engaging with the religious tapestry of America.",
      "most part and all of our programs are the majority of our program is Muslim specific programs. But the interface space is so rich and interesting, I really love it. Hadira? Can you repeat the question? You know that I'm a very young woman. And I'll forget a question in a minute. Okay. I do have a sense what the question was, so I will just answer that.",
      "So you talked about how chaplaincy originated from the history of the Christian tradition. And while I understand that to be true, it has since evolved to include people of all religious and spiritual traditions. So with respect to Islam we see that Muslim chaplain in the United States began in the prisons as a form of law or outreach.",
      "that was something that the Nation of Islam was very much into. But more recently, post 9-11 this work has evolved to focus on interfaith between Muslims and non-Muslims. And I actually like to take it a step further by not only engaging in interfaithe but also multicultural dialogue because the difference between the two in my opinion is you know, interfaite kind of focuses",
      "differences and finding common ground but multiculturalism, multicultural dialogue also you know acknowledges power differences and centers historically marginalized voices so when that includes Muslim voices. So in some sense there is this shift away from needing to prove",
      "religion, which is kind of the approach taken in the early days of post 9-11. So in this new space I found that in particular my work i'm trying to center Muslims a little bit more and I do that by focusing on three things strengthening Muslim identity engaging in multicultural dialogue and contributing to anti-racist work by countering Islamophobia so I hope to expand",
      "for both strengthening Muslim identity as well as engaging in soldier-focused work. Omar, chime in please. Sure. Bismillahirrahmanirrahiim everyone. Thank you so much to my colleagues and friends just fantastic comments. So many threads did sort of tease out there I'll jump in with sort of two quick points the first is i definitely appreciate the beginning of the question is that it's very imperative for us to know the history of uh the genealogy rather how we got here so in my reading I've been at Yale for 12 going on 13 years now",
      "years now. My reading of this, Yale also like Columbia is an ancient institution so to speak and so the genealogy is very much out of a liberal protestant framework right? And so where I just to jump into it where I see the intersection with our work is by us a reading or a study of our tradition of our own prophetic tradition from the Nabi ﷺ is that the work of pastoral care is like in the DNA of the ministry of the Prophet ﷺ so to",
      "literally just the way everything that he cared for and took care of in the community is that I think it's work. What we're bringing through in all of our respective ministries is an inflection of that, right? And so, and then the second point that I'll briefly make is that you know, we have incredible they're fascinating threads, right, of prison chaplaincy military hospital but we all work in the, were privileged to work in",
      "incredibly talented, driven ambitious young Muslims who are going through as Shabban Hajra said issues of exploring their identity and so we're there to sort of in the chaplaincy language walk with them along that journey right? And be there as friends, as interlocutors, as empathetic listeners, as non-anxious presence. And then as when appropriate really being deep dialogue right with them. And which was pretty said before is at same time a flip side of our chaplains work",
      "is that we are in many ways the Muslim interlocutor to the broader university community, right? Whether it's about issues of Islam and environmentalism, Islam and human rights, Islam anti-black racism work or anti racist works. So these are privileged positions that we in fact have so. Okay I wanna dig down a little deeper and play the angel's advocate. In this country,",
      "supposed to have a kind of wall of separation between church and state. Religious institutions, of course, promote religion. Secular institutions, however, are not supposed to support religion. So let me get a little deeper. I don't care if you're Muslim. If you went to",
      "You're supposed to be there learning biochemical engineering, chasing fruit flies, learning something about history. Your feeding your soul is supposed to happen in another space. Talk to me chaplains. I'll just jump in. Thank you very much for the question.",
      "I think that mindset or that line of thinking is common, like I've heard it many times. What I would gently sort of redirect, instead of saying pushback, is that I think it's not... It's a little bit short-sighted because we're all complex individuals, right? Race, gender, ethnicity, religious identity, spiritual identity, linguistic identity. We're all made up of different parts and to say",
      "stick, right? That walk into a university that are going to absorb this knowledge and walk out after four years with a BA or six years of the PhD. I think just isn't honest to experience. And we have people at this very formative intellectual emotional growth period in their late teens early 20s they're going through a lot, right there processing engaging with the world and spiritual is as important as their ethnic identity, their racial identity.",
      "I think the part of a beauty of a liberal arts education is actually engaging that seriously with those ideas, right? Is that people are complex and liberal arts talk about human condition. And this is what asked to be human condition and so. That's great. Sure. I think that what you were getting at, the separation of church and state is actually only relevant to public universities, private colleges,",
      "public universities colleges uh do hire chaplains and um there actually is a way for public uh for people for religious communities to fund their own chaplins at public colleges and universities and i actually encourage muslim community to organize and start funding because you know in this space muslim students you know they don't have a lot of",
      "have a lot of administrative support, people who understand the needs of Muslims especially in this climate of Islamophobia and just having an authoritative figure on campus who understands and can advocate for the needs that are most critical for their long-term growth. College years are formative years of identity so not having that support system in place early on can be damaging in the long run for the Muslim community",
      "I just hope that we can organize ourselves and start understanding the importance of having a presence on college campuses. But Amina, my God, there are over 1,000 faith traditions. Are we going to have a chaplain for each one? Are we gonna have authority figures advocating for each",
      "whole selves to campus in the spirit of inclusion, if there's a large enough group of students they have to be able to have their religious identities just acknowledged. If there is a student that is only eating halal or vegetarian food or kosher food and you don't serve it to them then you're saying you don' t get to eat at the dining hall. How can we do that for tens of thousands",
      "afford to do that for every dietary wish, every prayer wish, everything? Do they then get out of the business of teaching subjects for careers and professions and cross that line and get into the business",
      "Columbia University who has never in their life engaged with someone that has a different dietary need, has missed part of the learning they should have gotten at a global campus. Has missed part even just understanding and this is even with our interfaith dialogue it isn't about hey I'm going to bring a sanitized version of me no I will bring my whole self tell you exactly how I feel if I can't do that then the university",
      "allowing the students to bring their whole selves. The idea of secularism is based on we're not the default religion that was there, and the default religious that was again these white male Episcopal priests. And need to create a space for everyone else to say okay even if we are not choosing one religion we will still acknowledge the existence of different religions I think universities as big as Columbia have at least 15 religious life advisors",
      "advisors on campus and I think it's so fascinating. Half of them are different Christian sex, which is also interesting because when we say we're going to do interfaith work with the Christians they're like well which ones? How do we talk about orthodoxy within even the Christian traditions and how do we engage? And it just creates for a richer educational experience I think. Just on that note I want to jump in with a quick thought thank you so much is that sort of",
      "hear chaplain Amina's words are really in the when we talk about the project of education is that we want to include it in the include in that conversation, the idea of religious literacy. So she said it so beautifully is that if you go through four years at a selective institution and you've never had exposure to difference I mean that I think something it leaves a lot to be desired in what the faculty and the people who design curriculums are doing those institutions because",
      "have professional schools, right? You just have vocational schools. I don't mean to knock that out. There's definitely a very important place for that. Then we're not calling it university education, right. That's a very singular track of education where you go and you get sort of a product at the end of it. And I think university education is much more about diversity and inclusion. And then the other thing I just want to add in there to Amina's point is that in our respective institutions",
      "institutions like these are were part of the colonial projects in some way right is that yale was modeled off of oxford and cambridge which were part",
      "So in 250 years of its history, it was a male only, a white male institution. This is imperative now in the moment that we live and that we reorganize, dismantle, and redistribute power in these institutions. Okay. We're going to take a few second break here and come back with Hajra to jump in this conversation.",
      "Hadira, jump in. Sure I just wanted to make one additional point in the way that you framed your question about well can we accommodate for all of these other religions?",
      "Like, why is it such a problem? Accommodating for the needs of marginalized people. Well one reason- Positive. Couldn't have class if you accommodated everybody's religious holiday. Right but in terms of dietary restrictions, it's very easy to accommodate that there's not a huge cost to doing something like that. Well it's expensive.",
      "I mean, not necessarily. There's not too many dietary restrictions in general. I mean buying halal chicken versus normal. We have vegans. We vegetarians. I don't want to take the mic from you, Hadra. I'm sorry. But we actually have an example at Yale if you don't mind me sharing for the good of the group. So several years ago I was in conversation with Yale Dining",
      "with Yale Dining. And long story short, they redid their whole strategic plan and business plan. And alhamdulillah, one of the things was a resource ethically produced produce and ingredients as much as possible in their dining halls. Part of that plan, they actually found halal meat suppliers that met their strategic point. So the point is that at Yale, in all of its 14 residential college dining halls, we actually have halal chicken as a default. Halal chicken and beef on the line,",
      "which is actually meets all the criteria for all of the different things that they want to look at. But to the other point, and then I'm sorry, Farajara, for taking the mic from you. Is that we're living in an age now where dining professionals take a lot of this very seriously, where there's every menu item that you go into a dining hall has allergen information, right? If you have shellfish allergy, if you have a peanut allergy,",
      "cages to religious groups is that if you're vegan, if you vegetarian, if eat halal, if there's alcohol present in an ingredient most colleges now will actually list that because they care very much about the health and well-being of students. So this I think interacts very well with that but please give the mic back.",
      "things that I've heard is from the workers and trying to tend to what they perceive of as the food of foreigners. And having the cost from students, the cost of meal cards and stuff going up because then you have many more vendors than you had originally. And for the poor, that's exorbitant.",
      "And while it might be nice for those who can afford it, it is not so nice for many minority students who have to pay higher costs as they serve the desires of others. That's true but having said that part of the struggle is a lot of so at Columbia a lot",
      "every incoming freshman is required to be on the dining plan. And if they are on the planning, especially during Ramadan, if they don't get halal food, they're essentially paying for food that they cannot eat. And this is true of a lot of other students and I'm really grateful for the dining staff at Columbia that I think we have four Jane students that are on a strict vegan diet and they get accommodated those four students because again",
      "Because again, it would have been insane to try to make all of it vegan. So instead what they did is these specific students have a relationship with the staff and they essentially give them a heads up before they come into the dining hall. No, I think those things are always accommodated but I'm just thinking about the numbers of students whose meal plans I've paid for because as the meal plans went up",
      "went up to accommodate students from other places, they used their meal cards up very quickly and then were hungry. And I think that smacks a little bit of an elitism that smacked off a little but of ethnocentrism that's smacks of a little racism that's not being dealt with here.",
      "It's not so nice. I apologize, I didn't mean to cut you off. I think it's a fascinating conversation and dimension to all of this is the economics of higher education which in some ways totally needs to be... We need to have that hard conversation about why are the costs going up across the board in higher education where it's actually becoming unaffordable for the majority of people in this country? And I'm not an economist but I read in The Chronicle of Higher Ed",
      "But Hasbro is an economist. Hasbro. Okay, are we going to get to a point where it's literally going to price out the majority of people in the country? Exactly.",
      "that they are trying from the conversations I'm privy to, and I'm very mindful of the fact that I am at a ridiculously privileged and elite institution. Like I put that up front, right? Yale is not, it's the 1%, right? It's not most colleges in the country. But what they try to do in many of these places is they want to give a living wage to their workers, right, and so gets into complex issues of you have to raise labor costs go up which at some level has been filtered down",
      "et cetera. And I feel more complex than that because- But it's also, in addition to the economics is back to what all of you have talked about liberal education. You're forcing me an evangelical Christian to be mindful of when I serve a Muslim or Jew or vegan or whatever else it is running around out there. You see what",
      "serving food. I'm a human being with my own religious proclivities. Hydra, jump in. Well, when you mentioned Christian these public institutions they're not funded by Christians. These are public institutions therefore they need to accommodate for the public it's not about",
      "non-Christians. But public institutions are funded by many Christian groups. Right, but when you fund a public institution your self interests don't matter at that point. There's never a time when an American's self interest don't manver. Never. I mean it's not supposed to. It is a public",
      "the public interest not specifically but most homes are teeny tiny teeny tiny part of it is in public interest to be accommodating to everyone and creating an open society because in the long term this just creates better society you have to look at education they gain in other ways if you're just fixated on this tiny thing about oh giving you know a small accommodation we will miss out",
      "of creating a cosmopolitan culture, et cetera. And this is the same line of reasoning that people use whether we should support welfare programs or not. Again it's about the public good and then like the societal benefits, the intangible societal benefit. Exactly. Amina? I think because Colombia can actually buy food at bulk, it actually becomes cheaper than some of the food in the surrounding area except for of course the halal cart. The halal",
      "always standard the cheapest food that you can get. But apart from that, if you want quality food, the assumption is the Muslim students wouldn't be paying for food anyway. In fact, the university is just taking in those dollars their students apart from the freshmen because they expect you to buy a ton of meal plans. Students, a lot of the other students even graduate students opted into the dining plan because it was cheaper for them per meal than it was to just be eating out",
      "in a surrounding area that is very pricey. Yeah, well let's move on. What other religious traditions have each of you studied in your role as a chaplain? Could you repeat the question please? What other religions traditions have you studied",
      "I mean, I'll just jump in real quick and then I defer to my friends and colleagues here. You know, in my training, I went to Hartford Seminary. I'm a graduate of Hartford seminary. And so it's originally a Christian institution that has much more of an ecumenical approach now. And through my work at Cornell when I was doing a master's in Islamic studies, you know, I took Hebrew Bible New Testament and then obviously I went",
      "I've had exposure. And then in work at Yale, we have on staff again because of the nature of how we're very fortunate is I have a colleague that's a Hindu director of Hindu life and a director of Buddhist life. So I have close working relationships with the Buddhist chaplain and the Hindu chaplain so in my dozen plus years on the job, I learned a lot and continue to learn in my work with Hindu and Buddhist communities on campus.",
      "I agree. I think there's a certain level of privilege that we have, but most other people don't that we can...I have a friend that is a Hindu chaplain that I can call up at any point and ask about any specific thing. I have the same working relationship with Christian Jewish and Buddhist ministers and all them and just say, Hey, this is what's happening. Before we had a Hindu Chaplin on campus, I had an Indian student come to my office and he's Hindu and he was like, My brown parents are really disappointed in me. And so are mine.",
      "And he came home and we had this conversation because for a lot of our conversations with students, yes it's somewhat within a religious framework but just as human beings there are certain struggles that are very similar. There was no point where he felt like I was trying to push Islam on him nor was he trying to put Hinduism on me but at the same time we were trying to find common ground of how can we have a difficult conversation with our parents? How do we do this? Alhamdulillah my parents have since come around",
      "come around and I just it was a fascinating conversation to have with the student alhamdulillah now we do have a Hindu chaplain that he can go to but i still have now have a relationship with the students that I don't think I would have otherwise. Yeah so I actually have a background in Islamic studies, I've studied Islam for five plus years um so my concentration obviously is Islam",
      "you know, in some readings I would not claim myself to be an expert. But I've also read in depth the works of Nasser and other Perennialist writers. And I think that sort of perspective is beneficial as a chaplain because we're supposed to be speaking widely to people from a perspective of shared common, shared values, shared spiritual wisdom, et cetera. And it's not so much still important",
      "when it comes to different religions for more of how we can unite under these common values. And so my background in these plenum readings was very helpful in my chaplaincy job also just like others have mentioned, learning on the job interacting with the other chaplains in everyday sense not necessarily informal interfaith events but those everyday conversations that you have with people they really open up windows because",
      "you're not going to forget that stuff because it's rooted in words whereas if you read something in a book and you don't have anything to root it in, you could easily forget it. So just having that human connection has been instrumental in me gaining a wider perspective and understanding the other religious traditions. I think that's great because a lot of people think that the only thing Muslim chaplains do is Muslim stuff. And it's important for them to hear",
      "guys are not told on the walkway you're in everything and conferring with your um colleagues now omar will take you out of this conversation for a minute and i'm gonna ask the women women chaplains i mean you know we have serious issues with women because omar of men all over",
      "Now you show up as chaplains with jobs, draw salary, with authority. With responsibility. Talk to me ladies. I think my first week on campus four of the male students asked when we were going to hire a khatib. The first one I just started. The second one was confused.",
      "it's gonna be a while. And Alhamdulillah to their credit, those same four students came around and started attending halaqas and became involved in a way that I was very grateful. And they didn't just dismiss me offhand. There are some students that would but at the same time, I feel like it gave me space to have conversation. There're a lot of women that have been disenfranchised from the Muslim community and it put me in a really good position",
      "position to try to bring them back in and i remember actually in the last month i think i had three different women of different ages and have different very different experiences that said this was the first time that they have felt that islam could be for them that allah could love them yeah isn't that something all the muslims are men and the women i don't know what they do",
      "I studied Islam and I was looking for something to do with it. If I was a man, you could try to be an imam at a mosque or get invited to speak at things. And there's lots of opportunities but for a woman, it's so much more difficult. And so this was one of the few outlets for someone like myself. And of course there are challenges in terms of your legitimacy being questioned",
      "That's something that I had to deal with kind of on the first day. And also just questions about leading prayer and all of these things, it's how do you deal with those questions? What stance you decide to take can have real world consequences, right? You might divide your community but at the same time we need to stand up for social justice in women. So like where is the balance, right. And sometimes you might decide that, you know what",
      "to do this. I'm going to lead this prayer or whatever and even if you disagree with me, you're gonna...I hope that we can create a culture of tolerance because the inconvenience that the majority experiences because they see something new or something new is happening is not even close",
      "gain if they go outside of the grain and do things that are counter to culture. So yeah, and that's actually why I go by the name imama as well chaplain because authority is granted through these titles. And so if you don't use these titles, then sometimes diminishing your own authority. And I have had just as much training as some of these other people who call themselves Imams or whatever.",
      "also this title of imam and i think amina needs that as well my one of my male students actually started the imamana which i thought was hilarious it kind of stuck i love it ladies i'm going to use it and push it out there i think one of the things on many campuses and especially with i'm gonna put this out there and we're gonna take another quick break",
      "is the diversity of students. African-American Muslim students have often felt left out as have Chinese Muslims students, as have well not so much white Muslims but Latino Muslims too. So I'm gonna give you a few seconds to think about that and we're going to go to break.",
      "I think I beat him in terms of taking a station break. But nevertheless, your comments. What can we do?",
      "to change this dynamic? I think we have to embed it in our programming. We made a point to make sure that at least one speaker every year that we invited was Black, at least on speaker that we invite every year was Shia, to make the students see themselves represented also in their religious authority. This is our signature program",
      "program was called Ramadan Around the World. And it's the first time that Ramadan is going through the school year and it was so much fun because what we did is we had cultural groups take each taken iftad where they are dressing up, if they want, they are talking about their culture and they're ordering food from that specific, from their specific culture. And again, we had someone to be like, oh yeah of course Columbia has the money to do this. And I'm like look Jollof rice is not more expensive than biryani. It's just not.",
      "We are just going out of our way to make sure that different cultures are celebrated. The Black student organization, Muslim and non-Muslim alike, attended all like we had a Somali night, a Senegalese night and an African American night where we ordered soul food. And we're lucky enough to be in New York where you can just order food from everywhere. But students were coming because this was a space where their culture was celebrated in a positive and affirming way.",
      "students are talking about their historical traditions regarding the Shi'a. Students did the same thing where we had the Irani night and they were eating kubeda, and we're drinking like saffron tea, like everybody is really enjoying the Iqbal but we heard that she had them for the first time for a lot of the students. We wrote a little later if you are unfamiliar with these traditions maybe college should be",
      "once a year that you see the beautiful tapestry of the American Muslim community in a way that is fun, that is engaging, that just results in really good food. Jump in. I mean, I just want to jump in with what Chapman Amina was saying. She articulated so beautifully with actually concrete examples. What came to my mind to your question was really this is the work of DEI, right? Diversity, Equity and Inclusion.",
      "equity and inclusion. And so we need to be deeply engaged, and on the ground in that kind of work with our partners on campuses people that work in cultural centers, people that working student affairs, people who work religious affairs as equal contribution partners interlocutors right saying that we absolutely need to create this space for the Latinx community on campus for the native indigenous community on Campus, the black community on",
      "blessed if we take our work seriously to have like such an incredibly, and that word is so beautiful. The tapestry of the beauty of the Muslim world is that we represent the most multicultural right? And multi ethnic religious community arguably on a college campus in 2020, right? In terms of just the kind of engagement we have, the levels of engagement, the diversity within our communities that come... This has been mentioned before but that's what I think is that",
      "our work seriously and I'll be the first one to point at myself as needing to do better is that it can be transformative. So, that's what I would kind of thoughts that come to mind to your question and on the previous question I very much appreciate how we need to grapple with the gender issues head-on and so I want to listen more than speak. Yeah, so I agree you know with everything that was said",
      "said and you know I mean what you said about representing different ethnicities in uh different genders in uh you know the speakers that are invited, and i think the MSA has done a great job with that. But what I do specifically as a chaplain because you know what the MSC does is not what Ido necessarily is that I make it a point to reach out to Chia black Muslims or anyone else who may be marginalized in the community. And I spend time talking to them in office hours",
      "a support system when they need it. And that just helps make them feel a little bit more welcome and accepted in the Muslim community. I just make it a point to go out of my way, and make sure that they have that personal relationship with me so that if something happens in the MSA or in the greater Muslim body, we can ask someone to turn to and they're not alone. So that's specifically what I do.",
      "Okay, I want to turn to the more sensitive side. Oh, Amala gave me that look. Okay, so sex before marriage, pornography, the alphabet crowd, my parents have driven me to my wit's end, I've been bullied and I might commit suicide. How?",
      "How are we to deal with these things, which are also a part of that maturation process? Don't everybody jump at once. I mean, I always have a lot to say and I talk too much so I don't want to be the first one to jump in. No, we know how to shut you up, Omar. Don't worry. Just go for it. No no thank you. What I would say is",
      "One of the things that comes to mind, and then I'll hand it over is that really our training equips us or should equip us to listen more than we speak. Right? Especially in the beginning. And part of the essence of what it means to be a chaplain, to be pastoral presence is to be non-anxious, nonjudgmental presence on campus in these students' lives because we're well aware with all the things you mentioned reality of contemporary culture, right? That young people are faced with this onslaught, right where",
      "right? And we can unpack that at so many levels. But we want to be ideally inshallah the person in life or the group of people in their life, when they walk through the door, we meet them where they're at, right? That we sit down, we listen, we ask reflective questions, we asked deep questions and do we do deep listening? And so we kind of walk on that journey with",
      "is helping them come through unpacking these issues themselves. That's what I would lead with, and then there are some people you build a longer relationship with, they want you to actually help them untangle these kinds of problems and be looking for answers. So it really depends on the type of student and the type crisis that they're in. Anybody else? I think there's two parts to this but there was a study about more than 50% of Muslim youth",
      "youth and Muslim college students have had premarital sex, have tried alcohol. I mean again more than half of our Muslim students in a post 9-11 world were bullied at school, issues of substance abuse. These things exist in the larger Muslim community at very high rates and we have to acknowledge that they are part of our communities as well. There was a beautiful story of a companion at the time of the Prophet's life send them that kept showing up to the masjid of the prophet's life sent him drunk",
      "and I can't picture someone showing up to our masjid looking like that because the rest of the Muslim community would just attack them. And there was a, during this time one of the other companions he started speaking ill of this man and the Prophet got angry at him and he said he has to fight the Shaytan and he has deal with you don't support the Shayta against your brother. He's here because he loves Allah and his prophet so the notion that someone that is",
      "May Allah protect us from this idea that there's ever going to be a sin that is beyond the mercy of Allah. It's just ridiculous. And it's so unfortunately rampant in this part of the religious crowd of like, okay I didn't commit this sin therefore you how dare you? Yeah.",
      "that I have a right to attack someone else and to not try to understand how and why they ended up, what led them to this and how we can help people heal. A lot of the times these are based in maybe unresolved trauma or based in an experience that they still need to understand and process. And it's part of our job, Chaplain Amar's point, to just be that pastoral presence to help them through. Actually there was a point where I had to put up like almost",
      "I almost try to communicate to my students. I'm like, you don't confess your sins to me? That's not the point. The point is where have you been so that we can walk along this journey together? Hazra? Yeah, so I would actually echo some of the sentiments that Omer mentioned already in terms of centering listening and making sure to build a relationship with students. Sometimes if you try to give advice prematurely it can backfire for",
      "Where that student is, you don't know what their orientation is. There's so much diversity in Islam. They are Muslims who take the position that having a boyfriend or girlfriend before marriage is halal. And so you do need to respect other people's perspectives. And as a chaplain, we're sort of supposed to be more in this neutral space. But at the same time, we are counselors. We give counsel. And being able to strike that balance",
      "balance is hard and you just need to have like a really great relationship with that person to know where that balance is. Sometimes, you might feel that okay you can tell this person your opinion of what you think Islam would say because you think they will accept that in Asiha for others you might not be able to and you'd just have to be more respectful and tolerant",
      "not interested in your perspective, maybe give them resources on other perspectives that might be aligned with where they're at. You all are so mature in your professions that I would be remiss if I didn't call you back again because some of the things you're talking about parents need to know also.",
      "because they're riding these kids like, what's that dude's name on the horse in the Wide Wild West? Trying to protect them from everything. But riding them so hard, they're driving them to stuff. I'm going to give you all the last say because my merciless producers are telling me that I have to go away. So I'm gonna give you a last say and we'll start with Hajra.",
      "So just last comments. Yeah, so yeah, the points that I want to reiterate is just you know, I hope that Muslim community understands the importance of chaplaincy to begin with especially on educational spaces there's just so much Islamophobia right now so many you know we are marginalized community where our",
      "Sometimes some aspects are at odds with, you know greater cultural norms and just having that a mentor in an authoritative space on campus just would make the biggest difference in students' lives. And so that's number one. Number two I think the Muslim community needs to be open to listening to the perspectives of women and the challenges they face",
      "leadership positions. Sometimes, you know, there is this fear of like Westernization or, you",
      "might see things differently, Muslim woman. It might not be an issue of Westernization this issue of women leadership in religious positions is a challenge that Muslim women who are authentically Muslim are facing and so we should give more space to listen to them. I have to stop you so I can give a minute to each of our other guests.",
      "I wanted to say that college is the time in people's lives when for the first time you're away from your parents and it's up to you to either choose Islam for yourself or not. And we see great Muslim leaders, people like Congressman Keith Ellison who is now the Attorney General of Minnesota and really just how important his role is in the current moment that we are experiencing he became a Muslim at college. What we're building is the roots for Muslim Americans",
      "and what is incredible about the chaplain space, it actually does include women. It includes black chaplains. It really just celebrates the tapestry of the Muslim American community in a way that everybody is part of the Ummah and celebrated and still fighting the same good fight for each other. And I just, it's so beautiful. Thank you. Last word, Omar? One minute.",
      "I'm simply going to put out there that, you know, from where I'm coming from, I think, you and so how can we in our capacities as chaplains on campuses embody and exemplify, right? That prophetic love and mercy and compassion that he gave not only to the Sahaba but to the world. Right? To the Ummah. And so in our Salam al-Saleh that we inhabit on college campuses and inshaAllah beyond is",
      "to nurture hearts and to embody that mercy. And I think that's really at the heart of our work, as my amazing colleagues have already said and demonstrated. It's about relationship building. Thank you. I'm going to end with that I'm bringing all of you back. And what I would like for you to do, and I will chase you down, have no fear. One I would",
      "college administrators, and Muslim chaplaincy programs. So if you would think about those things, I will be on your email shortly. This is Critical Talk with Professor Aminah Aldean. I have had a wonderful evening, and I forgot the word already, but to the ladies, I am so glad to see you. Omar,",
      "you omar glad to see you again after a while and you all have just been wonderful assalamu alaikum"
    ]
  },
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    "file": "amina_mccloud/Critical Talk with Prof_ Aminah Al-Deen Ph_D__Aanh1IYjevI&pp=ygUVQW1pbmFoIE1jQ2xvdWQgIGlzbGFt_1742895498.opus",
    "text": [
      "Good afternoon. You are here with Professor Amin Al-Deen in Critical Talk, and I have the esteemed honor of having as my guest tonight Dr. Lamont Hill. Dr.",
      "and he was a political contributor for CNN. He's an award-winning journalist, and you can look him up on Huffington Post, and he's received numerous prestigious awards and has been named one of America's 100 most influential Black leaders. I would say leaders, but Black leaders too by Ebony Magazine. Dr. Hill is the Stephen Charles Professor of Media City and Solutions.",
      "and Solutions at Temple University in Philadelphia, PA. Prior to that he held positions at Columbia University and Morehouse College. He's trained as an anthropologist of education and he holds a PhD with distinction from the University of Pennsylvania. His research focuses on the intersections between cultural politics and educations",
      "And I want to say good evening. Take your mute off. Mute. Mutes. There we go. Sorry about that. Good evening. Salaam alaikum. Walaikum salaam. And I haven't seen you in a minute, but you're always up to something. One of the things I would like to do tonight, which is a little different than the show usually runs.",
      "runs, we usually launch into an interview. But this was so powerful that I'm going to ask my producer to put on a short video which I'm gonna let frame our conversation this evening. Thank you.",
      "on so you listen to us and you don't listen until you feel some of this pain. On Monday, May 25th, George Floyd was killed by Minneapolis police. He was unarmed and he wasn't resisting arrest. Ever since that moment the city has been up in arms there have been protests",
      "The most recent protests have been so intense that a target caught on fire, that things were destroyed. And the media and citizens are saying, why are these people rioting? Well, I'm going to tell you why. First of all, these are not riots. Riots are irrational. They're random. Theyre just brutal acts of violence with no rhyme or reason, with no purpose. These are rebellions. Rebellions are organized act of resistance against an unjust system.",
      "What's happening in Minneapolis is no different to what happened in Detroit in 1967, what happened In LA in 1992. What happened in Ferguson in 2014? What's happenin is people who have finally said we have had enough and we are going to do something about it. People say well why now because we're tired black death happens every day if black folk rebelled every time something happened that should not happen. We'd be",
      "all day. But we don't do that. But there comes a point where you've had enough. We're at a moment where we can't turn on the television, we can go to social media without seeing somebody who looks like us put down like a dog killed by the state, killed by random white citizens just because we're committing the crime of being black and outside. We are tired of it. We were tired of being one phone call away from a disgruntled white woman with an unleashed dog",
      "We're tired. We're tires and the problem is y'all don't listen until we do something. Martin Luther King said, The riot is the language of the unheard. Well these rebellions are the language on the unheard this system does not listen to black death. Black Death is ordinary. Black death is common. No other race is on the news or social media getting killed day after day after today without any warning only black folk so the reason why we have to do this is to get the nation's attention",
      "attention. And how do you get the nation's attention? By damaging their property and by making them feel as unsafe as we feel every single day. Now that's not to say we should go around killing people, that's out to say, we should just burn stuff up just to burn it down. But every once in a while, we have to make our voices heard. We have to our pain known. And sometimes that means stopping a cog in the wheel of capitalism. Sometimes that means shutting down a target. Sometimes",
      "feeling. That's the same outrage we feel by exploitative business. That is the same when a government opens up the country as soon as they realize there are only Black folk dying. The same unsafety and vulnerability that y'all are feeling right now, we feel every day so you can understand enough is enough. We tried sitting in, chanting, singing, rapping, hashtagging,",
      "Listen, until you feel some of this pain. People are saying, well, you're destroying your own neighborhoods. Look how irrational these people are again. Stop framing black people as irrational. We're not destroying our own neighborhood. That target might be in the hood, but we don't own it. Those businesses might be",
      "we don't have a plan it's because y'all haven't listened to plan a or plan b or plan c or plan d so by the time we get to this stage this is all we have left so if you want there not to be rebellions if you don't want to see these cities on fire then listen to us when we tell you we're in pain listen to",
      "See how powerful that was? I don't know if you were even looking at yourself, but I am and I want to hold this book up. And I'm hoping let me see which way do I have to go that my producer gets it. This was written a few short years ago, but it is important because it begins a narrative",
      "a narrative that the video we just watched furthers down the line. And nobody was, Mark got, he starts off with The Invisible Man and he takes walks us through vulnerability and a special kind of condition that African-Americans find themselves in. So I'm gonna shut up and let you tell everybody about the book",
      "Oh, thank you. First of all, thank for inviting me. It's always an honor to be in your presence as a black scholar You are one of the kind of... You don't have to be nice to me just go with the book I know if i got to my mama raised me right As no but seriously as a Black Scholar we all owe a debt to you and your work was path-breaking and courageous And even those of us who don't",
      "those of us who don't do work on African American Islam in particular, still learn from you how to navigate the academy. How to be a stellar scholar who can take their own path and reject those people and those ideas that undermine our humanity, undermine our intelligence, undermine ability to see black people as full human beings. I mean,",
      "all so many of us courage to do the same thing. Thank you. No, thank you. The book, Nobody I wrote, you know, I wrote Nobody sort of unexpectedly. It was at my house. I was here in Philadelphia and I was watching the news and then I was looking on social media and I saw that this boy had been killed in some town I had never heard of in Missouri right outside of St. Louis. And yeah, I ain't no Ferguson.",
      "Ferguson was, you know. This is 2014 and nobody knew who Ferguson was outside of that area. And I noticed on social media that he had been killed by a police officer but his body was still out there and activists kept tweeting about him. In the street! Right on Canfield in the street. It blew my mind. Something was different about this story. Two days later BET sent me out there to",
      "as a journalist to cover the story of Mike Brown and this boy who'd been killed. And when I got down there, I saw some things that shook me. First of all you could almost still smell death in the air. There was still stains of blood on the ground. People were still emotionally taken. In a lot of ways it was like the lynchings at the 20th century and the end of the 19th century where the death wasn't just about destroying that body. It was about sin. It Was about the spectacle of death. Yes. And what that meant for everybody watching it",
      "everybody watching it. Right? You know, so we saw I sat there and looked at that thing. And I remember standing out there in this black girl said to me, she said, Well, she looked at the space where Mike had been. As you say he was up there for four and a half hours. Yes. But half of that time, there was not even a sheet to cover his body. Right. You know? No medical establishment no nothing. And somebody said they left him out there like he belonged to nobody. Exactly.",
      "Exactly. And that shook me to my soul because it was like there's a way that we treated that body, like there was no parent who loved him, no family who cared about him. There was no state to protect him and there was not medical establishment attend to him. You know? And even before he got on the ground, there was school system to invest in him. No police force to not harass him and to protect them. As we went down the list I said what does it mean for Mike Brown not just get killed",
      "police officer for after getting stopped for jaywalking yeah but what does it mean for an entire system to render you uh unworthy of what we think you get in a society like this so i said i'm gonna tell the whole story of mike brown that's all i wanted to do and as i was watching and writing the story of Mike Brown I heard about Tamir Rice, I heard Eric Garner. We watched Freddie Gray die, we watched Sandra Bland die",
      "Ferguson. I got to tell a story from Ferguson, right? And it's funny because initially was going to be Ferguson to Baltimore but then I looked and said wait a minute but what about Flint you know state violence ain't just about police shooting us it's about that lead that's in the water right you know it's not where they dump nuclear waste it's You know all these other things and so I decided to tell the story that showed how what it means to be rendered nobody in America what it meant",
      "the spoils of democratic citizenship, what it means to be somebody who doesn't deserve investment and protection and safety. And what it finally means to live in a world where the government has privatized our concerns. The government is supposed to protect us even if you are hardcore conservative there's certain things that the government is suppose to do for us. What does it mean for us to move into that neoliberal moment where all that stuff gets privatized and profitized? Then the industries and spaces",
      "spaces that were given responsibility of us do what they're supposed to do. They making money, being efficient and privatized so if you have the water no longer managed by a government but managed by private agency and it doesn't care about people led in the water then you end up with people who die. So throughout the book I'm looking at... Before we go on because you know us in the academy speak a particular vocabulary. Yes. So I want to back us up",
      "back us up and what is neoliberalism? What do we mean when we say something comes from the government as opposed to being privatized because I don't think many of us really understand what's at stake in those notions. I think that's a great question you know, when we",
      "the market in other words we're saying that the way that it's free market fundamentalism it's the belief that that that the that the market that money the economics should drive all of our social decision making that means for example that the weight of fixed schools is not to invest more money in public schools let's take the public good and make it private let's make competition let's give out vouchers let's have school choice which really means a move toward privatization um",
      "You mean to tell me that? No. Well, I kind of know but I'm not sure I know anymore that parents especially black and brown parents ran to get those vouchers not knowing that they were being complicit in another scheme that was going to be to the detriment. This is ticking me off here. It's a fact.",
      "It's a fact. You write on the money, and unfortunately they always frame it in a way that makes you feel... Conservatives have a way of framing things so that it sounds like it's something you want when it's somethin' that you don't want. Exactly. War on drugs. The war ain't against the drugs, it's against poor black people that were using drugs or the victims of the drug war. The War on Terror. Except the war ain t on terror, it was on our civil liberties. And when you had this idea of school choice yet we get to choose but what are we choosing?",
      "choosing and what are the stakes? And so we have decided as a country that the private is better than the public. And part of how they do that in public, they make it sound like it's for black folk because they know if it's black folk ain't nobody going to want it. So this public housing even almost even when we think about the house and we don't think of them subsidies in the suburbs. We think about Taylor Homes, Cabrini Green. We've got Richie Allen in Philadelphia. When we say public education,",
      "We don't think about the rural schools or the suburban schools, which are public. We think about those schools inside of an urban school district that are black and brown. When we say public options in health care, people thought, oh my God, there's suddenly all these people going to be so many black and Brown people added to the hospital. And so they make public assistance right? Even though most people on welfare are white female and young, they make you think that you're not giving money to Tiffany or Becky, you're giving it to Taquanda or Talisha. And right. And So they make",
      "it's black. And so then the private interest becomes the way we deal with everything, and as I talk about in the book, it's not just school, it is the police departments, it s the military, you know, it' s the public defender's office. We privatize everything, when you do that, when make everything private, when talking about efficiency saving money cost cutting, when talked about austerity, government will spend less money and be more disciplined fiscally a lot of times what it means is we're not going to invest",
      "going to invest in the vulnerable we're going to take away the safety net but we ain't taking it away from everybody because we just saw 500 billion dollars go to wall street and corporations after coven 19 happened we keep through the cares that we keep watching the rich get socialism and or get free cap free market capitalism and it's not fair well i think you know",
      "because if you talk in the terms of neoliberalism this and that or the other what happens is the average one of us glazes over we don't have a clue as to what that means you know not only did a whole bunch of money almost half of it the money allotted go to corporations i just found out",
      "churches. And when I turned to ask folk, did Massage get any of that money? Everybody's looking at me. Well, um, did they had a right paper? I said, now you're going to ask questions so that none more asked of those groups that got $1 million apiece. Exactly. Why are you doing this to yourself when you should have gotten some of that? But you had to close down the said",
      "You had security people. You still had bills. So why didn't you put, well? And I'm wondering... I realize some of it we're going to keep talking about what is done to us but I'm getting real tired of us shooting ourselves in the foot when we could at least shoot alongside the body instead of in the darn foot. I know that's right. We definitely got to organize",
      "got to organize and struggle better but whoo we like they're making a hard force man it's uphill battle it is i want to nobody starts out with those names that rose up but you know many in our audience have never uh read the invisible man",
      "in there about how what they did to the invisible man the invisible means on everybody's list and then what do they do it becomes the black book not a classic but the black classic so diminishing and diminishing",
      "so that people can get a sense of a continuing narrative. For some immigrants who have never been exposed to any of this, they had some of those questions. Why are they rioting? You know, they just looting their body and then you come back in the video which is why I was intent on playing. Look, the store is in my community but I don't own the damn store.",
      "making black folks live up to them along with family members that say when they do this you do that and all of the you do involved calling the police and this time when he called the police something eye-opening and exceptionally again tragic happened but also in nobody i want",
      "me a social arbiter yeah yeah so both of those things could you say something about yeah i'll start with the cell phone thing first you know we we live in a world where there's just more room and access uh or space for everyday citizens to do what i call another project engaging new surveillances in other words the state's been surveilling us forever i mean they've been from flesh branding",
      "to keep track of us forever as black folk in America. But what cell phone technology has allowed, and almost everybody in America has a cell phone now, it's penetration rate is somewhere in the 90s, and smartphones are in the 80s. And for younger folks, people younger than me, I think 18-25, it is around 95% or 85-90%. So people have these phones, they have this technology now, through cellphones, social media, live streaming, people take photos",
      "police. They're able to videotape police misconduct, they're able hold the state accountable in a way that we simply could not before it was a rare occurrence. It was almost a it was like hitting the lottery to be able to catch uh the officers that beat Rodney King in 1991 on video tape right um people just walk around big video cameras but now we can catch this stuff more often and the importance of",
      "it takes away white people's ability to say, we just didn't know. And it also I think creates a more complicated conversation about black witness what it means for black folk to say look we've been telling this story forever and now we got evidence. It ain't foolproof but it does matter that we can tell those stories about ourselves on a day-to-day basis so we can narrate our own stories, our own violence.",
      "And all the corporate media outlets were saying that the police was holding their ground and telling us to go home, but we're not engaging in any violence. We were getting tear gassed while the media was reporting that. And if you've been tear gassing, you know what tear gas is. You don't want to take it from nothing else. So while the corporate",
      "stream on Facebook, you know, we're Facebook live and we're doing all this stuff showing look no look at us on the ground right now. We are dying here. And so that cell phone technology is important because it doesn't change necessarily the hearts and minds of these folk but what it can also do is change the response. Ahmaud Arbery was killed and nobody did anything until the videotape came out. They already had",
      "So it wasn't like they didn't know. They didn't arrest those people because they saw the videotape, they arrested those people, because we saw the video tape. So that's also a key part of it as far as the other thing goes on you know as someone who does solidarity work with Palestinian communities both here and in Palestine um It was very interesting for me to see what it meant for George Floyd his death sequence to begin with a phone call from a store owned by a brown person",
      "Part of what solidarity means is we have to think about, and that's why I had the solidarity as a verb shirt on. Solidarity is not just an idea, it's an action and it's a practice. And part of what we have do is understand what it means to be black in America and that calling the police on a Black person is not the same as calling the place on a white person. Yeah? Right. We have to go to a break here. This is Critical Talk with Dr. Mark Lamont Hill.",
      "We're going to take a few. I'll give you a chance to at least look at your bottle of water. Thank you, Mike.",
      "Mike Bagley. No, you can... This is a casual show and we made it that way because we know we're coming late and people sometimes they just say if I could have a cup of coffee, I'd have one right now. Right. I want to go back What do I want? I got so many things to go",
      "coming to, I don't remember if it was the second or third Malcolm X Day. And I had the enormous opportunity to visit Uncle Bobby's. Could you just tell us a little bit about Uncle Bobby? What is happening? I saw online they had to get posted. It was closed temporarily but I want to know what's happening with Uncle Bobby and how that idea got started. Okay can I go now?",
      "Can I go now? Go. Okay, so Uncle Bobby's for me was the brainchild or it was like a life... It was a lifelong goal. You know, I grew up in Philadelphia. My father and his family is from Wilkes County, Georgia. My Father was born in 1928. His brother, my uncle Bobby was born",
      "they grew up in a Jim Crow South. They were second-class citizens, they went off to the army because it was the only access they had to any kind of chance to get social mobility after they left the military Uncle Bobby actually was in World War II and then came to Philadelphia my father followed him we eventually all made it to DC and in Philadelphia when we when they got there for uncle bobby he couldn't figure out why or he was troubled by the fact that",
      "He had fought and nearly died fighting for America around the world, and came back home and had to ride behind Nazi POWs on a train ride back home. His money was still counterfeit, still couldn't buy hamburgers, still could sit at a Hornet Harder, still can have his picture taken. My dad's class 11th grade class couldn't have its picture taken in front of Washington Monument but dogs could you know it was this kind",
      "of reality of an American apartheid system that they couldn't make sense of. And so Uncle Bobby said, well I need to figure this thing out. Now Uncle Bobby didn't have... In Georgia back then high school only went to 11th grade, they didn't a 12th grade. So Uncle Bobby went right to work with his 11th-grade education. My dad eventually went away to college but Uncle Bobby kept reading and he read more than my dad read. Uncle Bobby read everything. He read books, he read magazines, he'd read everything and he loved to talk about",
      "Bobby in Bessie's house in North Philadelphia, literally right across the street from where my office at Temple University is right now. He would have books for me. He had the copies of Ebony Jet Black Enterprise laid out on a table. I love it! It was like all the furniture covered in plastic. It was a black household. We never took the real furniture. But he gave me my first copy of E Franklin Frazier's Black Bourgeoisie.",
      "He presented me with a bunch of books, but also conversation on race. And it was Uncle Bobby's house that got me going to then black bookstores like Hakim's owned by Daud Hakim who was both in Atlanta and Philadelphia and part of the Western community with Imam Jamil. I started reading Ansar Law Books. I starting reading A Message To The Black Man Nation Of Islam books. I start reading the radical conspiracy theory stuff. I'm starting anything I could find",
      "I could find. And books became my way of figuring out who I was and trying to get free. And so, I said that if I ever had the chance to open a bookstore, if I've ever had a chance to create that space for somebody else, I would do it. So when I got a little bit of money, I say the first thing I'm going to do is open a book store. What else can I call it but Uncle Bobby's? Exactly. That's what we do at Uncle Bobby. We have books, conversations, community events. We're deeply rooted in Black writers,",
      "writers, black arts, black radical traditions. And we're an inclusive community, we're a diverse community but at the core, the point of the store is to create a space for these kinds of ideas. I like that place and I liked it as almost in a little square with another building if I'm not mistaken that you all took over. Yeah. We had could you just a word or two?",
      "People's Sanctuary. The people sanctuary is an event space, formerly a church now it's an event that we use to have big book events and conversations. You came and blessed us at the Malcolm X symposium every year we do a Malcolm X radical symposium. We're trying to keep track of the radical tradition and not let Malcolm or Martin or Angela or June Jordan or Audre Lorde",
      "Audrey Lorde or Ida B. Wells Barnett become less radical, or less central to our freedom struggle than they were? We wanna keep the tradition going by telling them truth about these folk. Well, I think it's just awesome and it oughta get replicated everywhere. And I just can't say enough. I was so shocked to see it in person",
      "all walks in and out, you know. And then just meet some old friends, some new friends at the conference which I'm going to ask you about later but I want to turn a corner as usual and should have been expected by us those in power begin their program of usurpation of what has happened how do you",
      "interrogate that and begin to give or provide, or collaborate or whatever it is for us to stop the Black Lives Matter. I think the first thing we have to do is analyze honor and spotlight the roots of Black Lives matter. There's no Black Lives",
      "is not a liberal bourgeois multicultural movement, right? It's it's a movement rooted in a black radical imagination. Black Lives Matter is a commitment to affirming the humanity of all black people which itself is a radical act in a world that doesn't see us as full human beings even now but it's also about understanding the various ways that black people are vulnerable to state violence, to structural violence etc so it's",
      "killing us. It's about this broader thing. So we have to, we can never lose sight of that. We also can't lose sight the black feminist roots of Black Lives Matter. There is no, you know, black feminists and black women more broadly have always kept us together and had the most ambitious freedom dreams. Black women didn't just dream to be free. They didn't dream to just like white women. They dreamed to create a world of international solidarity, a world that dismantled capitalism, a",
      "and patriarchy, and other things to thrive. So for me we got to hold on to that tradition otherwise Black Lives Matter will always be able to be usurped as you said by some liberal movement, by some Democratic Party movement. We have to be something bigger than that and smarter than that I think. Another thing we have to do is be clear about our demands once we know the tradition we come out of we have",
      "in New York, we've been calling for defunding the police. That's rooted in the work of Angela Davis and Ruth Gilmore and others who are calling to abolish police in prisons. We can't allow that to turn into a call for cops that dance with us in the street or more body cameras or warmer and fuzzier prison cells. We have to keep in mind the radical imagination that says that we can have a world without police and prison and punishment as the primary way of navigating the world.",
      "to that stuff. And we have to resist these folk who are trying to take over the movement, these folks who will sell you out in a minute, these folk- Exactly.... who just want to make money off books, these people who just wanna get a political office, these poeple who just wonna make it to the award shows, these peoplo who just wanna become celebrities. We can't allow them to become the leaders of this movement. What makes BLM powerful is that it was started by Black women, that it",
      "radical commitment and an internationalist politics. For me, if we stay true to that, we'll be okay. If not, we're going to have some problems. Wait a minute. Let me get to my next question before I get to prior questions. I've heard many times that...I don't think people really understand what systemic racism is, what institutionalized racism",
      "racism is comprised of. You know, I was in a conversation the other day and I found myself trying to explain that everything you say about black people could be true, it would be uncomfortable but it doesn't mean you can talk back. In the same way, I can say something about Jewish people, white people, Christians and it'd be true but it's not anti-Christian, it's",
      "to throw over and shut me down yeah right yeah when we say systemic racism many can't see it we feel it and live it as you said in the video if we got upset about all the microaggressions and everything else we'd be freaked out and last by five minutes right we did we do nothing but rebel it'd",
      "what we mean when we're talking about institutionalized racism, systemic racism. Yeah you know I like the way Ruth Gilmore talks about it a bit i would expand on it but her scholar Ruth Gilmour talks about this idea of a way of organizing in the world in a way that certain identities having a certain identity makes you vulnerable to premature death",
      "Oh, oh. Right? Get home. You good right? Yeah, yeah, yeah. You're getting your soul, right. So for me the fact that systemic racism, the evidence of systemic racism is the fact being Black means I'm less likely to live, I'm more likely to die. I'm most likely to because I am racialized as Black in this country. We die more at birth. We don't live as long. Black women die more giving involved",
      "involved in childbirth, three times their white counterparts. In terms of prosperity measures we work harder for less money, we pay more interest rates and insurance, we're more likely to get arrested, charged convicted, longer sentences, more likely executed by the state, more like food insecurity, less likely stable housing, lower salaries even if we graduate from Harvard Yale and Princeton then our white counterparts",
      "A white man with a felony conviction has a better chance of getting a job callback than a black man without one. I mean, any measure of what it means to be happy and prosperous in this country, we at the bottom. Any measure of social misery, we are at the top. And so for me systemic racism, it means that just by virtue of having this identity there are systems in place that make me more vulnerable to premature death that are outside the sphere of my immediate control.",
      "choice. I can't choose my way out of this system, right? I can' behave my way. Out of it. I cant dress my way outta it. Can't talk my way and I can speak better English so that I don't die that there are things that even if I act my best, even if behave my best even if show out that I'm still vulnerable to premature death and that is what systemic racism is all about why is it because we're still perceived as property run amok.",
      "And I think the reason why we're still perceived that way is because we live in a system and a country that is built on racial capitalism. And so, you know, American capitalism... It's important to think about racism as an outgrowth of capitalism. That is to say that a lot of times people think that racism comes from like we create this thing called",
      "called racism and then we got race. No, the first thing we did was create racial categories. We decided that we were going to organize not us. You know, you know, the invention of race by Europeans allowed for racialized and racist systems to exist. Right. Race itself is the problem. The construction of race itself is a problem. Why is race so important to America though? Because if I'm trying",
      "it is looking to extract value from human labor, human bodies, human existence. If we're trying to have a small sector of people who economically dominate the rest of us then race becomes an important category for capitalism to live out because now we can have a population that we decide are subhuman, that we decided are less valuable to society,",
      "system in order to justify both morally and strategically, politically the practice of slavery because they ain't human. And so if we can construct a racial other that then can be enslaved to build the American empire, that makes sense. And then once slavery ends now we're doing it in prisons. Now we're doin' it in all these other areas. Now were doing it through low wage work. The exploitation of black people hinges on the belief that black folk ain't",
      "and human hinges upon the construction of a racial system. And the construction on a racial systems hinges on the need to have a state that exploits and defends class at all costs. Okay, this is Critical Talk with Professor Aminah Odeyn talking back with Mark Lamonnell. We're going to take a break for a minute or two and we'll be right back.",
      "I'm a little perturbed by and scared of at the same time what i see is happening another younger friend of mine wrote an article black as king and it was to be um uh attest so do we really know what we're doing",
      "What is it, a video docu or whatever? Yeah. Visual album. Okay. And everybody's running after whatever dollars there are out there because now they're going to become sensitive to racism and still practice it but they're",
      "I've seen before. Others have been running but can't quite see, but everybody's running after a way to capitalize off of a precious devastating hard-wrenching murderous series of moments. Yeah you know whenever you have a tragedy like this there will be people who will resist, people who jump to action, but you will also have people who",
      "who will exploit the resistance by making money off of it. Corporate America has never found a crisis that it didn't love to exploit, you know? Black Lives Matter suddenly will become a hashtag and a T-shirt and before you know it, you now, it'll be unrecognizable. And that's just the way that symbols of resistance have always worked within, particularly within capitalist society, right? They find ways to... they co-opt the resistance, right. But then",
      "And then we also have to be wary of those people, because some of what I've just been talking about are systemic things. Institutions and corporations are structured to do that. People with liberal politics are inclined to look at a radical movement through their own liberal lens. I get that even if I disagree. But there's also some Negroes out there who are very intentional about presenting themselves as the leaders",
      "for their own benefit. You know, friends, when I'm talking to women you were having a debate with what's that? I almost heard her once and I wasn't sure I was hearing what I was here and I turned it off real quick so I didn't want to get infected. What is wrong with her? You know that that's a good question. Some people say she just has the world wrong right now. She had no point of view that she's been sort of converted by right wing thought",
      "And I think that's a great point.",
      "and attack Black Lives Matter to denounce George Floyd's, the protests in the name of George Floyd. To act as if police violence and other forms of state violence aren't legitimate, aren't really happening. We have to be honest about that and challenge those people. Well I'm gonna give you cause you're the professor here, I'm the student. Yeah right. Yeah well you know, that's true. I wanna know how we begin to strategize",
      "to keep them from squashing this or to make us feel so worthless that we don't continue? How do we begin that strategy? Because I know we can't do it in five seconds, which means I might have to wake you up and have you back on here again. But how do we began to strategize?",
      "One, I think we have to begin with the radical imagination. We gotta ask ourselves what's our freedom dream? What does the end look like? What is justice look like. Are you asking me to be Nina Simone huh? Really? We can use some Nina right now, you know? Yeah yeah. You know because that's part of the problem right? Is if I'm fighting and dreaming for to fix a prison and your fighting and dreamin' to destroy the prison this person's fighting and",
      "and somebody else is fighting to stop police from killing us, then we ain't on the same page even if we had the same protest. So we got to begin with articulating what are we actually trying to do here? Then from there I think we have to be mindful of the fact that sometimes having more people doesn't mean we have a stronger movement. You know, I'm not looking at...I'm not lookin' to have you know, a million people in this movement. I'd rather have 500 who have absolute faith",
      "and who are willing to do the work. And so for me, that commitment to having strong coalitions that are locally rooted right? If we're going to hold on to this dream, it can be an international movement but it has to be local organizing and mass action. King used to say when dogs bite us in Birmingham, we bleed everywhere. That means...and I'll tell you an example of this. In Minnesota for the first time, and part of it was because of COVID, but when everything happened to George Floyd in Minnesota,",
      "Don't come to Minnesota. We don't need a bunch of ambulance chasing Negroes with cameras coming to Minneapolis to do our movement. You know what we need here, unless you're a doctor, unless can do something to help us in this moment keep your behind and your city and organize there. And that kind of local action, local movement building I think allows us to keep track of the real challenges, the real problems.",
      "into a site of opportunism. So if we're organizing locally, where is the hub going to be? I like the idea of multiple hubs. You know, uh, I think in the past we've had, we've looked for messianic leadership. We look for one person. No, no, no. I don't want to mess in. No. Jesus and Muhammad were cool. Right. What I'm saying",
      "at but the problem is people are saying what's going to be the center of our of our um of our activities how do i know how do I just call you and let you know in Philadelphia what I'm doing in Chicago? And I think that's it. I think especially in the age of social media we say we have our, we connect with each other and so we have movements in Minneapolis and in Chicago and Philadelphia and when y'all have an action you reach out to us",
      "whether it's money, whether it is strategy, whether its education. We connect with each other and we don't have... Because the problem is if we create a single hub, then that's who runs the hub. Right, they become the leader. And before you know it, you go from hub to leader to I'm the one here to save y'all. And I try to avoid that kind of a thrust. I want to explore that some more",
      "asked you to get on here, but I'm going to give you the last word. What do you want our audience to know? I just want them to know that freedom is closer than we think, that we can win this fight and that I have never been more certain than I am at this moment in history that we will be victorious in our struggle for justice. We still got a lot of work",
      "is the moment to turn up, not to turn down. Now is the time to say wait a minute we can get the prisons dismantled and defund these police and reimagine education and engage one another differently and boot out leaders who sold us out again and again. The reason they keep giving stuff up and saying okay fine we will give you a body camera or fire this officer because they know that the stakes are high",
      "and that we're so close to winning. It's just like when you make a lawsuit, right? When you about to win the million dollars they want to settle. Yeah. So don't settle. Don't settle justice is too close. This is Professor Aminah Aldean in Critical Talk had a wonderful 55 minutes with Dr. Mark Lamont Hill and we will have him back as we explore some things. And for those of you who didn't get a chance to see the video",
      "the video at the beginning, please go and watch it. Critical Talk is a production of Muslim Network TV. Please go on our website. What will keep us alive is your donations. Thank you, Dr. Hill. Thank You. Don't go nowhere."
    ]
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    "text": [
      "Good afternoon. You are here with Professor Amin Al-Deen in Critical Talk, and I have the esteemed honor of having as my guest tonight Dr. Lamont Hill. Dr.",
      "and he was a political contributor for CNN. He's an award-winning journalist, and you can look him up on Huffington Post, and he's received numerous prestigious awards and has been named one of America's 100 most influential Black leaders. I would say leaders, but Black leaders too by Ebony Magazine. Dr. Hill is the Stephen Charles Professor",
      "and Solutions at Temple University in Philadelphia, PA. Prior to that he held positions at Columbia University and Morehouse College. He's trained as an anthropologist of education and he holds a PhD with distinction from the University of Pennsylvania. His research focuses on the intersections between cultural politics and educations",
      "And I want to say good evening. Take your mute off. Mute. Mutes. There we go. Sorry about that. Good evening. Salaam alaikum. Walaikum salaam. And I haven't seen you in a minute, but you're always up to something. One of the things I would like to do tonight, which is a little different than the show usually runs.",
      "runs, we usually launch into an interview. But this was so powerful that I'm going to ask my producer to put on a short video which I am going to let frame our conversation this evening. Thank you.",
      "on so you listen to us and you don't listen until you feel some of this pain. On Monday, May 25th, George Floyd was killed by Minneapolis police. He was unarmed and he wasn't resisting arrest. Ever since that moment the city has been up in arms there have been protests",
      "The most recent protests have been so intense that a target caught on fire, that things were destroyed. And the media and citizens are saying, why are these people rioting? Well, I'm going to tell you why. First of all, these are not riots. Riots are irrational. They're random. Theyre just brutal acts of violence with no rhyme or reason, with no purpose. These are rebellions. Rebellions are organized act of resistance against an unjust system.",
      "What's happening in Minneapolis is no different to what happened in Detroit in 1967, what happened In LA in 1992. What happened in Ferguson in 2014? What's happenin is people who have finally said we have had enough and we are going to do something about it. People say well why now because we're tired black death happens every day if black folk rebelled every time something happened that should not happen. We'd be rebelling all day",
      "all day. But we don't do that. But there comes a point where you've had enough. We're at a moment where we can't turn on the television, we can go to social media without seeing somebody who looks like us put down like a dog killed by the state, killed by random white citizens just because we're committing the crime of being black and outside. We are tired of it. We were tired of being one phone call away from a disgruntled white woman with an unleashed dog",
      "We're tired. We're tires and the problem is y'all don't listen until we do something. Martin Luther King said, The riot is the language of the unheard. Well these rebellions are the language on the unheard this system does not listen to black death. Black Death is ordinary. Black death is common. No other race is on the news or social media getting killed day after day after today without any warning only black folk so the reason why we have to do this is to get the nation's attention",
      "attention. And how do you get the nation's attention? By damaging their property and by making them feel as unsafe as we feel every single day. Now that's not to say we should go around killing people, that's out to say, we should just burn stuff up just to burn it down. But every once in a while, we have to make our voices heard. We have to our pain known. And sometimes that means stopping a cog in the wheel of capitalism. Sometimes that means shutting down a target. Sometimes",
      "feeling. That's the same outrage we feel by exploitative business. That is the same when a government opens up the country as soon as they realize there are only Blacks dying. The same vulnerability that y'all are feeling right now, we feel every day so you can understand enough is enough. We tried sitting in and chanting and singing and rapping and hashtagging and ran marathons until",
      "listen until you feel some of this pain. People are saying, well, you're destroying your own neighborhoods. Look how irrational these people are again. Stop framing black people as irrational. We're not destroying our own neighborhoods that target might be in the hood, but we don't own it. Those businesses might be",
      "we don't have a plan it's because y'all haven't listened to plan a or plan b or plan c or plan d so by the time we get to this stage this is all we have left so if you want there not to be rebellions if you don't want to see these cities on fire then listen to us when we tell you we're in pain listen to",
      "See how powerful that was? I don't know if you were even looking at yourself, but I am and I want to hold this book up. And I'm hoping let me see which way do I have to go that my producer gets it. This was written a few short years ago, but it is important because it begins a narrative",
      "a narrative that the video we just watched furthers down the line. And nobody was, Mark got, he starts off with The Invisible Man and he takes walks us through vulnerability and a special kind of condition that African-Americans find themselves in. So I'm gonna shut up and let you tell everybody about the book",
      "Oh, thank you. First of all, thank for inviting me. It's always an honor to be in your presence as a black scholar You are one of the kind of... You don't have to be nice to me just go ahead with the book I know if i got to my mama raised me right As no but seriously as a Black Scholar we all owe a debt to you and your work was path-breaking and courageous And even those of us who don't",
      "those of us who don't do work on African American Islam in particular, still learn from you how to navigate the academy. How to be a stellar scholar who can take their own path and reject those people and those ideas that undermine our humanity, undermine our intelligence, undermine ability to see black people as full human beings. I mean,",
      "all so many of us courage to do the same thing. Thank you. No, thank you. The book, Nobody I wrote, you know, I wrote Nobody sort of unexpectedly. It was at my house. I was here in Philadelphia and I was watching the news and then I was looking on social media and I saw that this boy had been killed in some town I had never heard of in Missouri right outside of St. Louis. And yeah, I ain't no Ferguson.",
      "Ferguson was, you know. This is 2014 and nobody knew who Ferguson was outside of that area. And I noticed on social media that he had been killed by a police officer but his body was still out there and activists kept tweeting about him. In the street! Right on Canfield in the street. It blew my mind. Something was different about this story. Two days later BET sent me out there to",
      "as a journalist to cover the story of Mike Brown and this boy who'd been killed. And when I got down there, I saw some things that shook me. First of all you could almost still smell death in the air. There was still stains of blood on the ground. People were still emotionally taken. In a lot of ways it was like the lynchings at the 20th century and the end of the 19th century where the death wasn't just about destroying that body. It was about sin. It Was about the spectacle of death. Yes. And what that meant for everybody watching it",
      "everybody watching it. Right? You know, so we saw I sat there and looked at that thing. And I remember standing out there in this black girl said to me, she said, Well, she looked at the space where Mike had been. As you say he was up there for four and a half hours. Yes. But half of that time, there was not even a sheet to cover his body. Right. You know? No medical establishment no nothing. And somebody said they left him out there like he belonged to nobody. Exactly.",
      "Exactly. And that shook me to my soul because it was like there's a way that we treated that body, like there was no parent who loved him, no family who cared about him. There was no state to protect him. No medical establishment attend to him and even before he got on the ground, there was not school system to invest in him.",
      "police officer for after getting stopped for jaywalking yeah but what does it mean for an entire system to render you uh unworthy of what we think you get in a society like this so i said i'm gonna tell the whole story of mike brown that's all i wanted to do and as i was watching and writing the story of Mike Brown I heard about Tamir Rice, I heard Eric Garner. We watched Freddie Gray die, we watched Sandra Bland die",
      "Ferguson. I got to tell a story from Ferguson, right? And it's funny because initially was going to be Ferguson to Baltimore but then I looked and said wait a minute but what about Flint you know state violence ain't just about police shooting us it's about that lead that's in the water right you know it's not where they dump nuclear waste it's You know all these other things and so I decided to tell the story that showed how what it means to be rendered nobody in America what it meant",
      "the spoils of democratic citizenship, what it means to be somebody who doesn't deserve investment and protection and safety. And what it finally means to live in a world where the government has privatized our concerns. The government is supposed to protect us even if you are hardcore concerned there's certain things that the government is suppose to do for us. What does it mean for us to move into that neoliberal moment where all that stuff gets privatized and profitized? Then the industries and spaces",
      "spaces that were given responsibility of us do what they're supposed to do. They making money, being efficient and privatized so if you have the water no longer managed by a government but managed by private agency and it doesn't care about people led in the water then you end up with people who die. So throughout the book I'm looking at... Before we go on because you know us in the academy speak a particular vocabulary. Yes. So I want to back us up",
      "back us up and what is neoliberalism? What do we mean when we say something comes from the government as opposed to being privatized because I don't think many of us really understand what's at stake in those notions. I think that's a great question you know,",
      "the market in other words we're saying that the way that it's free market fundamentalism it's the belief that that that the that the market that money the economics should drive all of our social decision making that means for example that the weight of fixed schools is not to invest more money in public schools let's take the public good and make it private let's make competition let's give out vouchers let's have school choice which really means a move toward privatization um",
      "You mean to tell me that? No. Well, I kind of know but I'm not sure I know anymore that parents especially black and brown parents ran to get those vouchers not knowing that they were being complicit in another scheme that was going to be to the detriment. This is ticking me off here. It's a fact.",
      "It's a fact. You write on the money, and unfortunately they always frame it in a way that makes you feel... Conservatives have a way of framing things so that it sounds like something you want when it's something that you don't want. Exactly. War on drugs. The war ain't against the drugs, it's against poor Black people who were using drugs or victims of the drug war. The War on Terror. Except the war isn't on terror, it is on our civil liberties. And when you have this idea of school choice, we get to choose but what are we choosing?",
      "choosing and what are the stakes? And so we have decided as a country that the private is better than the public. And part of how they do that in public, they make it sound like it's for black folk because they know if it's black folk ain't nobody going to want it. So there's public housing even though most even when we think about the house and we don't think of them subsidies in the suburbs. We think about Taylor Homes, Cabrini Green. We've got Richie Allen in Philadelphia. When we say public education,",
      "we don't think about the rural schools or the suburban schools, which are public. We think about those schools inside of an urban school district that are black and brown. When we say public options in healthcare, people thought, oh my God, there's suddenly all these people going to be... There's gonna be so many black and Brown people added to the hospital. And so they make public assistance, right? Even though most people on welfare are white female and young, they make you think that you're not giving money to Tiffany or Becky, you're giving it to TaQuinda or Talisha. And- Right. And So they make",
      "it's black. And so then the private interest becomes the way we deal with everything, and as I talk about in the book, it's not just school, it is the police departments, it s the military, you know, it' s the public defender's office. We privatize everything, when you do that, when make everything private, when talking about efficiency saving money cost cutting, when talked about austerity, government will spend less money and be more disciplined fiscally a lot of times what it means is we're not going to invest",
      "going to invest in the vulnerable we're going to take away the safety net but we ain't taking it away from everybody because we just saw 500 billion dollars go to wall street and corporations after coven 19 happened we keep through the cares that we keep watching the rich get socialism and or get free cap free market capitalism and it's not fair well i think you know",
      "because if you talk in the terms of neoliberalism this and that or the other what happens is the average one of us glazes over we don't have a clue as to what that means you know not only did a whole bunch of money almost half of it the money allotted go to corporations i just found out",
      "churches. And when I turned to ask folk, did Massage get any of that money? Everybody's looking at me. Well, um, did they had a right paper? I said, now you're going to ask questions so that none more asked of those groups that got $1 million apiece. Exactly. Why are you doing this to yourself when you should have gotten some of that belt? You had to close down Massage. You had staffed.",
      "You had security people. You still had bills. So why didn't you put, well? And I'm wondering... I realize some of it we're going to keep talking about what is done to us but I'm getting real tired of us shooting ourselves in the foot when we could at least shoot alongside the body instead of in the darn foot. I know that's right. We definitely got to organize and",
      "got to organize and struggle better but whoo we like they're making a hard force man it's uphill battle it is i want to nobody starts out with those names that rose up but you know many in our audience have never uh read the invisible man",
      "in there about how what they did to the invisible man the invisible means on everybody's list and then what do they do it becomes the black book not a classic but the black classic so we're diminishing and diminishing",
      "so that people can get a sense of a continuing narrative. For some immigrants who have never been exposed to any of this, they had some of those questions. Why are they rioting? You know, they just looting their body and then you come back in the video which is why I was intent on playing. Look, the store is in my community but I don't own the damn store.",
      "making black folks live up to them along with family members that say when they do this you do that and all of the you do involved calling the police and this time when he called the police something eye-opening and exceptionally again tragic happened but also in nobody i want",
      "me a social arbiter yeah yeah so both of those things could you say something about yeah i'll start with the cell phone thing first you know we we live in a world where there's just more room and access uh or space for everyday citizens to do what i call another project engaging new surveillances in other words the state's been surveilling us forever i mean they've been from flesh branding",
      "to keep track of us forever as black folk in America. But what cell phone technology has allowed, and almost everybody in America has a cell phone now, it's penetration rate is somewhere in the 90s, and smartphones are in the 80s. And for younger folks, people younger than me, I think 18-25, it is around 95% or 85-90%. So people have these phones, they have this technology now, through cellphones, social media, live streaming, people take photos of police, video",
      "police. They're able to videotape police misconduct, they're able hold the state accountable in a way that we simply could not before it was a rare occurrence. It was almost a it was like hitting the lottery to be able to catch uh the officers that beat Rodney King in 1991 on video tape right um people just walk around big video cameras but now we can catch this stuff more often and the importance of",
      "it takes away white people's ability to say, we just didn't know. And it also I think creates a more complicated conversation about black witness what it means for black folk to say look we've been telling this story forever and now we got evidence. It ain't foolproof but it does matter that we can tell those stories about ourselves on a day-to-day basis so we can narrate our own stories, our own violence.",
      "And all the corporate media outlets were saying that the police was holding their ground and telling us to go home, but we're not engaging in any violence. We were getting tear gassed while the media was reporting that. And if you've been tear gassing, you know what tear gas is. You don't have nothing else. So while the corporate medias are saying everything's fine, we're saying we're getting tear-gassed. 20 years ago, the corporate",
      "stream on Facebook, you know, we're Facebook live and we're doing all this stuff showing look no look at us on the ground right now. We are dying here. And so that cell phone technology is important because it doesn't change necessarily the hearts and minds of these folk but what it can also do is change the response. Ahmaud Arbery was killed and nobody did anything until the videotape came out. They already had",
      "So it wasn't like they didn't know. They didn't arrest those people because they saw the videotape, they arrested those people, because we saw the video tape. So that's also a key part of it as far as the other thing goes on you know as someone who does solidarity work with Palestinian communities both here and in Palestine um It was very interesting for me to see what it meant for George Floyd his death sequence to begin with a phone call from a store owned by a brown person",
      "Part of what solidarity means is we have to think about, and that's why I had the solidarity as a verb shirt on. Solidarity is not just an idea, it's an action and it's a practice. And part of what we have do is understand what it means to be black in America and that calling the police on a Black person is not the same as calling the place on a white person. Yeah? Right. We have to go to a break here. This is Critical Talk with Dr. Mark Lamont Hill.",
      "we're going to take a few and give you a chance to at least look at your bottle of water",
      "Mike Bagley. No, you can... This is a casual show and we made it that way because we know we're coming late and people sometimes they just say if I could have a cup of coffee, I'd have one right now. Right. I want to go back. What do I want? I got so many things to go",
      "coming to, I don't remember if it was the second or third Malcolm X Day. And I had the enormous opportunity to visit Uncle Bobby's. Could you just tell us a little bit about Uncle Bobby? What is happening? I saw online they had to get posted. It was closed temporarily but I want to know what's happening with Uncle Bobby and how that idea got started. Okay. Can I go now?",
      "Can I go now? Go. Okay, so Uncle Bobby's for me was the brainchild or it was like a life... It was a lifelong goal. You know, I grew up in Philadelphia. My father and his family is from Wilkes County, Georgia. My Father was born in 1928. His brother, my uncle Bobby was born",
      "they grew up in a Jim Crow South. They were second-class citizens, they went off to the army because it was the only access they had to any kind of chance to get social mobility after they left the military Uncle Bobby actually was in World War II and then came to Philadelphia my father followed him we eventually all made it to DC and in Philadelphia when we when they got there for uncle bobby he couldn't figure out why or he was troubled by the fact that",
      "He had fought and nearly died fighting for America around the world, and came back home and had to ride behind Nazi POWs on a train ride back home. His money was still counterfeit, still couldn't buy hamburgers, still could sit at a Horn and Harder, still can have his picture taken. My dad's class 11th grade class couldn't have its picture taken in front of Washington Monument but dogs could you know it was this kind",
      "of reality of an American apartheid system that they could sense. And so Uncle Bobby said, well I need to figure this thing out. Now Uncle Bobby didn't have you know in Georgia back then high school only went to 11th grade. They didn't a 12th grade so Uncle bobby went right to work with his 11th-grade education my dad eventually went away to college but uncle bobby kept reading and he read more than my dad read uncle bobbie read everything am i and so and he he read books he read magazines he read everything",
      "Bobby in Bessie's house in North Philadelphia, literally right across the street from where my office at Temple University is right now. They he would have books for me. He would have the copies of Ebony Jet Black Enterprise laid out on a table. I love it was like the blackest you know all the furniture covered in plastic. It was a black household. We never took the real furniture but but he gave me my first copy of E Franklin Frazier's Black Bourgeoisie.",
      "He presented me with a bunch of books, but also conversation on race. And it was Uncle Bobby's house that got me going to then black bookstores like Hakim's owned by Daud Hakim who was both in Atlanta and Philadelphia and part of the Western community with Imam Jamil. There was you know I started reading Ansar Law Books. I started Reading A Message To The Black Man Nation Of Islam Books.",
      "I could find. And books became my way of figuring out who I was and trying to get free. And so, I said that if I ever had the chance to open a bookstore, if I've ever had a chance to create that space for somebody else, I would do it. So when I got a little bit of money, I say the first thing I'm going to do is open a book store. What else can I call it but Uncle Bobby? Exactly. That's what we do at Uncle Bobby's. We have books, conversations, community events. We're deeply rooted in Black writers,",
      "writers, black arts, black radical traditions. And we're an inclusive community, we're a diverse community but at the core, the point of the store is to create a space for these kinds of ideas. I like that place and I liked it as almost in a little square with another building if I'm not mistaken that you all took over. Yeah. We had could you just a word or two?",
      "People's Sanctuary. The people sanctuary is an event space, formerly a church now it's an event that we use to have big book events and conversations. You came and blessed us at the Malcolm X symposium every year we do a Malcolm X radical symposium. We're trying to keep track of the radical tradition and not let Malcolm or Martin or Angela or June Jordan or Audre Lorde",
      "Audrey Lorde or Ida B. Wells Barnett become less radical, or less central to our freedom struggle than they were? We wanna keep the tradition going by telling them truth about these folk. Well, I think it's just awesome and it oughta get replicated everywhere. And I just can't say enough. I was so shocked to see it in person",
      "all walks in and out, you know. And then just meet some old friends, some new friends at the conference which I'm going to ask you about later but I want to turn a corner as usual and should have been expected by us those in power begin their program of usurpation of what has happened how do you",
      "interrogate that and begin to give or provide, or collaborate or whatever it is for us to stop the Black Lives Matter. I think the first thing we have to do is analyze honor and spotlight the roots of Black Lives matter. There's no Black Lives",
      "is not a liberal bourgeois multicultural movement, right? It's it's a movement rooted in a black radical imagination. Black Lives Matter is a commitment to affirming the humanity of all black people which itself is a radical act in a world that doesn't see us as full human beings even now but it's also about understanding the various ways that black people are vulnerable to state violence, to structural violence etc so it's",
      "killing us, it's about this broader thing. So we have to—we can never lose sight of that. We also can't lose sight the Black feminist roots of Black Lives Matter. There is no—you know, Black feminists and Black women more broadly have always kept us together and had the most ambitious freedom dreams. Black women didn't just dream to be free. They didn't dream to just like white women. They dreamed to create a world of international solidarity, a world that dismantled capitalism,",
      "to allow racism and patriarchy and other things to thrive. So for me, we got to hold on to that tradition otherwise Black Lives Matter will always be able to be usurped as you said by some liberal movement, by some democratic party movement. We have to be something bigger than that and smarter than that I think. Another thing we have to do is be clear about our demands once we know the tradition we come out of we have be clear what we're asking for in the streets of Minneapolis",
      "We've been calling for defunding the police. That's rooted in the work of Angela Davis and Ruth Gilmore and others who are calling to abolish police in prisons. We can't allow that to turn into a call for cops that dance with us on the street or more body cameras, or warmer and fuzzier prison cells. We have to keep in mind the radical imagination that says we can have a world without police and prison and punishment as the primary way of navigating the world. We",
      "to that stuff. And we have to resist these folk who are trying to take over the movement, these folks who will sell you out in a minute, these folk- Exactly.... who just want to make money off books, these people who just wanna get a political office, these poeple who just wonna make it to the award shows, these peoplo who just wanna become celebrities. We can't allow them to become the leaders of this movement. What makes BLM powerful is that it was started by Black women, that it",
      "radical commitment and an internationalist politics. For me, if we stay true to that, we'll be okay. If not, we're going to have some problems. Well, but we got a... Wait a minute. Let me get to my next question before I get to prior questions. I've heard many a time that... I don't think people really understand what systemic racism is, what institutionalized racism",
      "racism is comprised of. You know, I was in a conversation the other day and I found myself trying to explain that everything you say about black people could be true, it would be uncomfortable but it doesn't mean you can talk back. In the same way, I can say something about Jewish people, white people, Christians and it'd be true but it's not anti-Christian, it's",
      "to throw over and shut me down yeah right yeah when we say systemic racism many can't see it we feel it and live it as you said in the video if we got upset about all the microaggressions and everything else we'd be freaked out and last by five minutes right we did we do nothing but rebel it'd",
      "what we mean when we're talking about institutionalized racism, systemic racism. Yeah you know I like the way Ruth Gilmore talks about it a bit i would expand on it but her scholar Ruth Gilmour talks about this idea of a way of organizing in the world in a way that certain identities having a certain identity makes you vulnerable to premature death",
      "Oh, oh. Right? Get home. Right. Yeah yeah yeah yeah. You're getting your soul right so for me the fact that systemic racism, the evidence of systemic racism is the fact being black means I'm less likely to live, I'm more likely to die. I'm most likely to because I am racialized as black in this country we die more at birth, we don't live as long, black women die more giving involved",
      "involved in childbirth, three times their white counterparts. In terms of prosperity measures we work harder for less money, we pay more interest rates insurance, we're paying higher rent, we'll more likely get arrested charged convicted, we get longer sentences were more likely to be executed by the state. We're more likely have food insecurity or less likely to have stable housing. We get lower salaries even if we graduate from Harvard Yale and Princeton then we get less salaries than our white counterparts",
      "A white man with a felony conviction has a better chance of getting a job callback than a black man without one. I mean, any measure of what it means to be happy and prosperous in this country, we at the bottom. Any measure of social misery, we are at the top. And so for me systemic racism, it means that just by virtue of having this identity there are systems in place that make me more vulnerable to premature death that are outside the sphere of my immediate control.",
      "choice. I can't choose my way out of this system, right? I can' t behave my way. Out of it. I cant dress my way outta it. Can't talk my way and I can speak better English so that I don't die. That there are things that even if I act my best, even if our behavior my best even about show out that I'm still vulnerable to premature death. And that is what systemic racism is all about. Why is it because we're still perceived as property run amok?",
      "And I think the reason why we're still perceived that way is because we live in a system and a country that is built on racial capitalism. And so, you know, American capitalism... It's important to think about racism as an outgrowth of capitalism. That is to say that a lot of times people think that racism comes from like we create this thing called",
      "called racism and then we got race. No, the first thing we did was create racial categories. We decided that we were going to organize not us. You know, you know, the invention of race by Europeans allowed for racialized and racist systems to exist. Right. Race itself is the problem. The construction of race itself is a problem. Why is race so important to America, though? Because if I'm trying",
      "it is looking to extract value from human labor, human bodies, human existence. If we're trying to have a small sector of people who economically dominate the rest of us then race becomes an important category for capitalism to live out because now we can have a population that we decide are subhuman, that we decided are less valuable to society,",
      "system in order to justify both morally and strategically, politically the practice of slavery because they ain't human. And so if we can construct a racial other that then can be enslaved to build the American empire, that makes sense. And then once slavery ends now we're doing it in prisons. Now we're doin' it in all these other areas. Now were doing it through low wage work. The exploitation of black people hinges on the belief that black folk ain't",
      "folk and human hinges upon the construction of a racial system. And the construction on a racial systems hinges on the need to have a state that exploits and defends class at all costs. Okay, this is Critical Talk with Professor Aminah Odeen talking back with Mark Lamonnell. We're going to take a break for a minute or two and we'll be right back.",
      "I'm a little perturbed by and scared of at the same time what i see is happening another younger friend of mine wrote an article black as king and it was to be um uh attest so do we really know what we're doing",
      "what is it a video docu or whatever yeah visual album yeah okay and everybody's running after whatever dollars there are out there because now they're gonna become sensitive to racism and still they're going to still practice it but they're",
      "I've seen before. Others have been running but can't quite see, but everybody's running after a way to capitalize off of a precious devastating hard-wrenching murderous series of moments. Yeah you know whenever you have a tragedy like this there will be people who will resist, people who jump to action, but you will also have people who",
      "who will exploit the resistance by making money off of it. Corporate America has never found a crisis that it didn't love to exploit, you know? Black Lives Matter suddenly will become a hashtag and a T-shirt and before you know it, you now, it'll be unrecognizable. And that's just the way that symbols of resistance have always worked within, particularly within capitalist society, right? They find ways to... they co-opt the resistance, right. But then",
      "And then we also have to be wary of those people, because some of what I've just been talking about are systemic things. Institutions and corporations are structured to do that. People with liberal politics are inclined to look at a radical movement through their own liberal lens. I get that even if I disagree. But there's also some Negroes out there who are very intentional about presenting themselves as the leaders",
      "for their own benefit. You know, friends, when I'm talking to women you were having a debate with what's that? I almost heard her once and I wasn't sure I was hearing what I was here and I turned it off real quick so I didn't want to get infected. What is wrong with her? You know that that's a good question. Some people say she just has the world wrong right now. She had no point of view that she's been sort of converted by right wing thought",
      "Right-wing thought. Other people would say they have more cynical analysis and say that she knows what she's doing, that she know as a Black person she can attack Black movements and get paid from it. There are different schools but I don't like to speak to people's intentions or their heart. I just try to engage their ideas whether I think they're right or wrong is where I land. But I do think it's an important conversation to be had about what it means for Fort in this moment",
      "and attack Black Lives Matter to denounce George Floyd's, the protests in the name of George Floyd. To act as if police violence and other forms of state violence aren't legitimate, aren't really happening. We have to be honest about that and challenge those people. Well I'm gonna give you cause you're the professor here, I'm a student. Yeah right. Yeah well you know, that's true. I wanna know how we begin to strategize",
      "to keep them from squashing this or to make us feel so worthless that we don't continue? How do we begin that strategy? Because I know we can't do it in five seconds, which means I might have to wake you up and have you back on here again. But how do we began to strategize?",
      "One, I think we have to begin with the radical imagination. We gotta ask ourselves what's our freedom dream? What does the end look like? What is justice look like. Are you asking me to be Nina Simone huh? Really? We can use some Nina right now, you know? Yeah yeah. You know because that's part of the problem right? Is if I'm fighting and dreaming for to fix a prison and your fighting and dreamin' to destroy the prison this person's fighting and",
      "and somebody else is fighting to stop police from killing us, and somebody's else is trying to get rid of the police. Then we ain't on the same page even if we had the same protest. So we got to begin with articulating what are-what we actually trying to do here? Then from there I think we have to be mindful of the fact that sometimes having more people doesn't mean we have a stronger movement. You know, I'm not looking at-I'm not lookin' to have you know, a million people in this movement. I'd rather have 500 who have absolute faith",
      "and who are willing to do the work. And so for me, that commitment to having strong coalitions that are locally rooted right if we're going to hold on to this dream, this can't be an international it can be international movement but it has to be local organizing and mass action. King used to say when dogs bite us in Birmingham we bleed everywhere. That means and I'll tell you an example of this in Minnesota for the first time and part of it was because of COVID but when everything happened to George Floyd in Minnesota",
      "Don't come to Minnesota. We don't need a bunch of ambulance chasing Negroes with cameras coming to Minneapolis to do our movement. You know what we need here, unless you're a doctor, unless can do something to help us in this moment, keep your behind and your city and organize there. And that kind of local action, local movement building I think allows us to keep track of the real challenges, the real problems",
      "into a site of opportunism. So if we're organizing locally, where is the hub going to be? I like the idea of multiple hubs. You know, uh, I think in the past we've had, we've looked for messianic leadership. We look for one person. No, no, no. I don't want to mess in. No",
      "But the problem is people are saying what's going to be the center of our, of our own. Of our activists. How do I know? How do i do? I just call you and let you know in Philadelphia when I'm doing this Chicago And I think that's it. I think especially an age of social media we say we have our We connect with each other and so we have movements in Minneapolis and in Chicago and Philadelphia and when y'all have action you reach out To us when we have action we reach out to you and we have a need or",
      "whether it's money, whether it is strategy, whether its education. We connect with each other and we don't have because the problem is if we create a single hub. Right. And before you know, you go from hub to leader to save y'all and that kind of avoid that kind",
      "asked you to get on here, but I'm going to give you the last word. What do you want our audience to know? I just want them to know that freedom is closer than we think, that we can win this fight and that I have never been more certain than I am at this moment in history that we will be victorious in our struggle for justice. We still got a lot of work",
      "is the moment to turn up, not to turn down. Now is the time to say wait a minute we can get the prisons dismantled and defund these police and reimagine education and engage one another differently and boot out leaders who sold us out again and again. The reason they keep giving stuff up and saying okay fine we will give you a body camera or fire this officer because they know that the stakes are high",
      "and that we're so close to winning. It's just like when you make a lawsuit, right? When you about to win the million dollars they want to settle. Yeah. So don't settle. Don't settle justice is too close. This is Professor Aminah Aldean in Critical Talk had a wonderful 55 minutes with Dr. Mark Lamont Hill and we will have him back as we explore some things. And for those of you who didn't get a chance to see the video",
      "the video at the beginning, please go and watch it. Critical Talk is a production of Muslim Network TV. Please go on our website. What will keep us alive is your donations. Thank you, Dr. Hill. Thank"
    ]
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    "text": [
      "Good afternoon. This is Critical Talk with Professor Amina Aldi, and I have the wonderful pleasure of continuing a conversation with two very well-known chaplains in universities. One is Dr. Amina Darwish, and she's the Muslim Life Coordinator at the Columbia University. She's Ernie Jazza.",
      "traditional Islamic studies certifications from Kalam Seminary in Dallas and the Critical Loyalty Seminary, Toronto. She earned a PhD in chemical engineering before switching careers to follow her true passion as she is passionate folks. She's worked at work as an adjunct faculty of the University of Cincinnati Claremont and Northern Kentucky University",
      "Hajra Sharif is the imam, say it right, imama and chaplain. I love this term. She holds a bachelor's degree in philosophy and economics from Wesleyan College, one of my favoritest places, and a master's in Islamic studies with both academic and traditional training.",
      "Muslim countries such as Jordan, Malaysia, Palestine, Turkey and Indonesia. Welcome ladies. Thank you for having us. I could have y'all on every night and my life would be just a joy. Likewise. We talked a little bit about chaplaincy and some things but I want to dig a little deeper",
      "to how what is the training in Muslim chaplaincy? Either one of you can jump in there. Sure so I actually worked for Boston Islamic Seminary, so I had like a little bit of a sneak peek behind the scenes of what the curriculum development is like they haven't launched yet but",
      "But basically they're an institution that hopes to offer a master's program as well, to serve, to develop religious leaders, to service the Muslim American community. And in my work as a Kukum writer I helped develop 80 course descriptions as well as three syllabuses for courses that range from Aqidah, Fiqh, Dazkiyah, Quran and Sunnah, pastoral care, counseling, leadership,",
      "sociology, history and religion courses etc. So it was quite a number of uh quite a variety of courses and I noticed um in these courses you can see a methodology so they offer religious sciences pastoral care skills building as well as secular courses",
      "manual in their course manual they explicitly state that their educational philosophy is focused on three things knowledge of Islamic texts, knowledge of contemporary context and skill building. And I just think that this methodology is extremely robust because one of the primary problems that the Muslim community has is not even being relevant to people's actual realities. And so um this focus on understanding contemporary context,",
      "understanding, you know counseling developing those skills I think it's crucial in developing a great Muslim chaplain as well as any Muslim religious leader and You know some of the questions that I've been asked as a chaplain, you they relate to marriage or relationships Or even you know can a student take an interest-bearing student loan now if if you don't have this understanding of context if chaplains aren't sort of trained to",
      "sort of trained to give importance to context. Someone might just tell the student, no you're not allowed to take an interest bearing loan but this is in American context there's not a lot of options for students to secure any type of loan and not having access to this loan could jeopardize their studies and the result of that is poverty. So having this understanding of context knowing",
      "certain rulings and knowing how to respond to actual people's questions is really important for a chaplain to do. And that's something that I really admire about Boston Islamic Seminary. There are a few other institutions out there like Islamic Seminar of America, Yasser Qadi, Ma'am Suleiman, and Tamar Gray are associated with those institutions. I haven't worked with them so I can't speak to their work but they do have a website and they're up-and-coming and so that's another option as well.",
      "Yes. I first want to apologize, my neighbors are having a concert so if you can hear the background music. We could join after the show is over. But I didn't personally graduate from the Hartford Seminary but the bulk of the chaplains that I've met especially within academic institutions a lot of them did graduate from",
      "how with producing these chaplains that could have conversations with the institutions. The seminaries that I attended, the Qalam Seminary is when it first started and still is a very traditional seminary they have now included other faculty that have also studied academically and traditionally. The Critical Loyalty Seminary does try to balance the traditional with the academic discussions because to Hajara's point when you're meeting with students some of them are like",
      "them are like, hey can I wipe over my socks? And the other student is what about a loan and it's just...and then someone that's really struggling with their iman in terms of how do i handle the discussion on evolution in my classes. How do we understand our Islamic history where I'm coming from a place of pride. Like I understand that there's a problem with the colonialist narrative,",
      "to have those conversations are really important on one side, but the other part of it that is also really important is trying to understand how do we fit within the institution? How do I converse? How Do I communicate with the university administration? How did we try to figure out solutions within an academic context so that we can say accommodate students who are fasting during Ramadan. So there's a lot- Let me, let me cause you're only talking about Muslim students. Universities have loads of students chaplains are supposed to serve everybody",
      "serve everybody. If your training is only about things Islam and you only talk to Muslim students, how are you doing the true role of a chaplain at a university? Yeah that's actually a great question. Luckily I um not luckily but i didn't actually go to Boston Islam Center or any of these seminars in",
      "But that is a great question. You do need to study worldviews of other religions so that you can have- So if you don't do this in your training, Ammon I'm sorry? I think the Hartford Seminary more than any of the other ones was better at doing that and I mean, I agree. A lot of it was just on the job or just my own interfaith work that gave me the language and the capacity to be able to talk about religion.",
      "that is really important also just being in terms of activism recognizing when people are having a discussion about religious freedom in America what do they actually mean and what is what is freedom of religion how do we have conversations with other religious groups so that we are maintaining that sense of actually protecting that ideal without having someone abuse it I think what was what I really appreciated about my experience at the University",
      "of both Muslim and Jewish students that walking into a space, I know I needed to represent both groups of like hey we need halal food and we need kosher food. And it was essentially presenting that same argument you're more likely to gain traction with the university if you are presenting as an interfaith discussion in the same way that is in a space where there would be more... If a space has Islamophobia or probably also has antisemitism probably also just unfortunately",
      "or Buddhism, or other religions that being in that space I need to know enough about hey no we need to make sure those students are also accommodated and I can be here even if i'm not part of your tradition to amplify your voice through the university. Let me dig on that a little bit more. I dug on it last time. I am not a proponent of people having special foods to go to college they go to",
      "that can be a slippery slope. If you have conservative Orthodox Jewish folk, then you got to separate the meat from the dairy and then if you have this over here, you gotto separate the this from the that and I can't have... The pan should never have cooked pork in it. That's very slippery slope It depends on the proportions of the students, I feel",
      "I feel when there's a large enough group of students, again more than 1,000 Muslim students on Columbia's campus at core. A lot of them are paying for meal plans and if you're expecting the students to live on campus to eat in the dining hall then it's part of your university's experience then it becomes also a part of the university's",
      "is bringing people together around food. And I felt like it was very impactful to some of the cultures. I mean, I taught at DePaul. I've taught at Harvard. I'm in different places. Muslims clumped together and between their scarves and their coffees warning people don't come over here. They don't mix. So I would say that being responsive to different food needs is actually good for business.",
      "That's actually why even restaurants are being accommodating to the needs of vegetarians. Sure, maybe we- And Rosa and I are out of business right now but go ahead. I'm just saying- I mean, I don't have the statistics. I am sure you know we can look into the numbers but clearly there is a benefit otherwise why would they do that? Muslims are part of the market so if they want Muslims",
      "they have to be accommodating. Maybe a Muslim will decide to go elsewhere if they don't have that option. Do you know how many cultures reside in the United States? And what would happen if colleges and universities... Muslims are a very tiny part of the United State. Tiny, teeny-tiny. Yep. And there are groups who are not as demanding as Muslims are or far larger. I mean,",
      "I mean, I don't actually even know if most universities and colleges give halal options. I think only at elite universities and they tend to have the demographics to support that. I'm just digging and waking you up. No but I appreciate it because I learned a lot from the Jewish students just if I didn't have a halal option I was going to eat kosher and I was gonna hang out with Jewish students because that was my food option. Well that is another thing that bothers me",
      "excuse me, at DePaul, our chaplain. He's now I think head of whatever university like whatever you call that but he has made an effort to break the cliques of Muslims up and force them by teaching courses in Islam in Chicago doing a lot of different things",
      "out of their bubbles and into interactions with other students because they've left to their druthers, they stay in their bubble. Honestly I think this is what everyone does not just Muslims white people do it too but because they're the majority where they're seen as a standard if you look at who are the friend groups of a lot of white people there's just",
      "Muslims who are targeted and honestly, you know if you are a minority you need that support system It's just like daily my progressions every day don't have people look claim Anything else beside being in your bubble If you're claiming to fight for social justice if you're Claiming to do all of these things and you're in a bubble where everybody looks like you then how the hell are you doing? All those things sure. That's definitely a trajectory we need but",
      "but development of self comes first before you can offer to others. If you don't even, if you are like- So going to the liberal arts school for the Muslim is not about getting a liberal education and meeting people from other places. It's finding oneself. It' everything. Okay. I think the balance of that is making... And I think I mentioned this last time when we were talking",
      "it was very intentionally trying to reach out to different Muslims in America are the most diverse ethnic group, most ethnically diverse. And they don't talk to each other but go ahead. And that was me trying to break that within the Muslim community itself of no we're gonna acknowledge that there's different cultures and we're going to celebrate them in a way that hopefully allows us to still celebrate our identities but also reach out",
      "we were, if without COVID, we would have had four nights that were specifically celebrating. We had last year, we did Senegalese food, Somali food and just soul food. And again, because we're in New York, we're really privileged to be able to do this. The students from the Black Student Organization, Muslim or not came because it was one of a few spaces to celebrate a black culture in a way that wasn't talking about something that was negative. It was just",
      "and we're just going to eat yummy food. Some Muslims are saying that the Muslims should celebrate themselves first. I mean, it's not about what's first and later but I'm just pointing out the reality. The reality is that Muslims are targets of the state under incredible pressure and surveillance. Some",
      "and Latino Muslims are not targeted. Native Americans- If your religion is being disparaged on the media, you are targeted. If there's so much- Black, brown, Native American, and white Muslims are now targeted for deportation or detention. Yeah, that's not what I was getting at. I was going to get a general climate of hate and anti Muslim bigotry. That's enough to break someone down.",
      "someone down. I lived in a Muslim country and I was astonished by the psychological well-being that I suddenly attained just from being surrounded by people who supported me, and if you have not lived abroad you have no idea the difference! I never in my entire life realized how damaged i felt living in the U.S., it's only when",
      "that. So, I mean, you know, Muslims are going through a lot. We should be sensitive to that but we do need to reach out to allies. We do need engage with the greater society and hopefully inshallah we can develop. Well, I think the difference is in that the Black, Brown, Native American and white have a multi-religious family. And they don't feel what you feel. And",
      "in some instances said when are you moving to me or feel good yeah if when you feel at home where you feel supported is outside of the united states the question often is when are",
      "blaming us for everything and scapegoating us? No. If I, you know... Well, that's a different story. But I think if I've lived overseas for extended periods of time, I have never felt so unwelcome. I've been stereotyped. The racism rolls off of people's tongues and down their sleeves. So the comfort you feel... No, no, no. Okay.",
      "don't so I also experience those things and I mean, I think you mentioned feeling at home But I didn't use this words that I don't feel at home. I'm just saying there was a difference psychologically Hmm. There's definitely a difference just because it's different doesn't mean it's perfect I mean of course I stopped before living in the United States. I still prefer living in I see if I'm an American but to build Sorry to be help try to build a cohesive American Muslim community",
      "other and their experiences are so vastly different. In a post 9-11 world more than half of our Muslim youth, I believe it was a care study that said they were bullied in school for being Muslim. So there's part of the healing of what about my Muslim identity and what about other identities because depending on how you present in American society you're still going to have a fundamentally different experience. And one common thread that brings all the Muslims together is their Muslimness",
      "their Muslimness and the part of trying to create that sense of cohesion, it becomes important as Muslims we're all going to for example go to Jummah or fast during Ramadan. Now how do I make that space now actually representative of all the segments of the Muslim community so that there's... And it's funny to me because my students someone would almost every Jumma, we have more than 200 people that come to our Jummah, almost every week someone will be like, I didn't like the khutbah this week. And I'm like well wait till next week,",
      "that's gonna talk about because we learn Islam within those contexts, we're expecting it to look a certain way. So if I say go to a khutbah and the Imam doesn't yell at me and tell me I'm horrible and I need to do better for one person that's like wait a minute I didn't learn anything this khutba. No no you're maybe you're learning something else or maybe you were learning about how someone else in our community is going to respond and I use that as a joke alhamdulillah",
      "Hopefully, how do we build a strong relationship with Allah? How do we built strong relationships with each other? But part of it is having a diversity of speakers so that you are representing people and saying this was my experience in these different Muslim spaces. And this is what it looks like. Wallahualam I don't know if I helped. Translate We have asked that we damp down the religious talk. So if you're going to use it please translate for our non-Muslim",
      "that this is your time to experience that, understand that and engage with it. And hopefully still gain something from that reminder, the weekly reminder. I'm looking at our comments coming from outside. I like for young people to hear from you too. I wonder if there's anything in the comment section because I like listening to women.",
      "But also, you know when I asked how many have ever heard one of the Chinese imams give the khutbah and nothing? How many have heard the ones from Australia or South Africa or oh I don't know Malaysia striking stirring khutba's",
      "well, we seem to want to have an ethnic only representation of Islam. I can count the African-American or Latino chaplains and universities who are well, well, very well qualified but they are not seen as representing Islam and are not brought in",
      "That is the definition of unfortunate. And I feel almost a betrayal to what the message of Islam is, of who we are as people in front of God and in front each other that it's our belief that makes... It's our righteousness that makes us valuable in the eyes of God not anything else.",
      "Having said that, culture is a collective human experience and appreciating someone's culture is about appreciating them as a human being. It's not about celebrating one over the other and it never should be. And it's important that we do have those conversations. One of the things that we did after... The current racial awakening that we are now experiencing and the tragic killing of George Floyd,",
      "we're having these conversations, one of the things that I tried to do since the end of Ramadan which was in mid-May. We've had exclusively Black speakers every single week and I only had one repeat. And again it was trying to show my students just how wide the range is. You're in New York right? Yes. You got Chinese imams. I mean you have the whole smorgasbord just to remind you of imams there.",
      "you know i mean here in chicago we have us there's a little section of chinatown where i took a class down because i wanted to show them the um the the islamic the chinese writing for uh what is this something impure something and pure and so that they could see which ones were the chinese muslim restaurants but i think i worry",
      "No, I don't really worry. I'm glad to see women in chaplaincy. I am so glad I could jump out of this seat if I was jumping anymore. And it's because many of us in this society are very used to women in leadership positions and we're very shocked with Muslim world throw women under the bus behind the bus",
      "but middle way the bus. And no matter how bright, how innovative, how creative and how learned they actually were when our history is full of women scholars who have actually been hidden. So I had a bunch of people, well not a bunch",
      "I guess, terminal degree at least before I can think about becoming a chaplain. Because see what you all do, you all have the largest to pick and choose your audience. Chaplains in prison and hospitals and corporations don't have that luxury. You know, if my father died, it doesn't matter what I am and I need to see a chaplin, I'm coming. Right? But",
      "Where do they go? What's the ending degree? You can't become a chaplain with a high school diploma, right? No. And a lot of them are the MDivs, the seminaries, the institutions like that. I mean from what I've seen you have to have a bachelor's degree and the standards vary depending on the institution. Some look for masters in Islamic study, religious studies",
      "religious studies, Islamic studies, whatever. And some require it. So I mean there's difference but education chaplains are different in the sense that they look at different standards. It's a more intellectual environment so they do want to see more education. I think for in hospital work and prisons they do need chaplaincy training but not necessarily like you know academic masters type of thing. Listening audience",
      "listening audience i hope y'all got that now i want to turn a little bit to women one of my loving subjects i won't call it favorite is loving um i am excited",
      "of stuff that gets rolled out when we talk about things Islamic. As if women can't read, can't memorize, can, can and half of the men ain't qualified to do much. It reminds me of the prophetic narration when the prophet said take half your knowledge from Aisha. That is sort of a call for equal representation in religious authority right? Take your authority also from woman.",
      "Almost as if I don't understand how come. I think there's an unfortunate, I'm seeing a lot of women leave traditional Islam because of that. They see the misogyny. It's not hard to point out. But what? Women raise men. Yes. And the most shocking one to me every time there's a men's only panel when it's about women's rights and I'm like you couldn't find",
      "And I'm like, you couldn't find a single woman. Like just don't have the battle. What women have got to do is jump up and say, oh who are you? Bye. So a lot of this is sustained by pre-modern fic. So we actually have a problem in terms of Islamic thought which is sort of the engine behind this misogyny.",
      "as they start realizing that some of this fiqh is not sensible, they'll start adapting fiqhh to something that is sensible to their context. Last time I was in Egypt and I was trying to get it translated and published by a place here, there is an Arabic-to-English spy volume or it's a bibliography, Women in Islam. Have you seen it, Amina? I have not.",
      "I have not, but I've heard of other ones. Yeah, and I mean it's like those books are thick. Yes. So it looks like they're not there, but women want to promote them too. Go ahead.",
      "institutions started to become devastated through economically and culturally in different ways. Female scholarship was normal. The oldest running university in the world is the one in Morocco, it's opened by a woman Fatima Al-Fahriya. It's been around for 12 centuries. Exactly but you know what? You all have gotten me so excited that I forgot to take my break. So now we're going",
      "minute and we'll be back to have some more exciting conversation. Sounds good.",
      "And we're back. I've got so much good stuff here. Let me see. Let's see.",
      "to what we were studying, Islam or chaplaincies. Were any of the professors black or brown? What do you mean by Brown? So I went to Malaysia and so there were Malay- Brown. Yeah. There are Malay professors. Yes, I did have a Black professor",
      "have a black professor. There were two in that program, I had one of them. I mean, I've been to two different programs in Malaysia so... Or any other female? Yeah, so there was the white Russian lady. There was...I left the other program but trying to remember. I think there was also a female well,",
      "And I know you all are going to change that, Amina.",
      "was acknowledging her and Allah subhanahu wa ta'ala revealing an ayah, God revealing verses to affirm her that say that... And unfortunately some of the English translations of this verse is in Surah Al-Ahzab if anyone wants to look it up. But it's saying, say that the Muslims when they translate it, they say, say the Muslim men and the Muslim women and the believing men andthe believing women. The way that it actually should be translated is say the Muslims collective and the muslim woman where it's highlighting them",
      "highlighting them, not just equating them to the men. And it was again about restoring a balance and when people ask about I feel like you get this a lot of who wants to marry the feminist woman that is objecting to everything after her husband Abu Salimah passed away she married the Prophet peace be upon him himself so the answer of who want's to marry a feminist woman? Prophet Muhammad and anyone following in his footsteps",
      "And again, but having said that how many people when we talk about these women only talk about them as a function of just something so small and I'm sure we've all done this where you've attended something and someone's like oh your marriage is deficient until you have children. I'm like excuse me do you understand who you insulted? You insulted Aisha! Like shh!",
      "Somebody, not your husband, talked to you about your womb? This was in a public gathering that someone said this. And they didn't have to take you away in chains? Oh, I definitely objected and I'm really grateful for being able to have studied because my objection",
      "of, in this verse it says that you here we are talking about the marriage of Aisha to the Prophet peace be upon him and they didn't have children. You don't get to insult their marriage. How does somebody who is not your husband get to talk about your womb period without being flattened like a pancake? It's about seeing women as unidimensional instead of multidimessional. If any of the Sahabi were women",
      "where women existed today, they would be rejected by the Muslim community. And they would tell the Muslims community that you know where the sun don't shine. Exactly! SubhanAllah. Like honestly, we do have to be... There is so much inspiration in our early sources but yes, the tradition also has been very positive to woman. Sheikh Akram Nedawee wrote a book about the female scholars who had this side",
      "who had this sad for something and so we did have you know a rich tradition of female scholars but we also have to be critical of that tradition there were you know there were aspects in that tradition where women you know were not seen as authoritative why aren't there any woman imams for example anyone they weren't teachers yeah and they were but",
      "And I'm saying Imam in terms of like the head of a madhhab, not a prayer leader. There were actually female prayer leaders in Islamic history but it was a minority. But even within the Madhahib and I can't speak to the other Madhub, within the Hanafi tradition It was Imam Abu Hanifa's daughter who is a scholar in her own right that codified the entire discussion on menstruation Like in what world do we think men hung out and said let's discuss menstruation? They didn't",
      "Right. But do women only have to talk about female issues? Exactly. They don't. I agree. I want to talk Islamic finance and so many other things. Yeah, and I was told in the Muslim world that by some people not by the programs that I attended but by Shaykh that this is not appropriate for woman and that the brain of a woman after she has children becomes like",
      "because like that of a child. Did you throw something at him or ask him where was his mama? That she could raise the fool like that? I was also sensitive to the fact that I was an American and so I didn't want to impose my culture. No, no, I want women from those cultures to stand up for themselves. I do have to position myself. Remember my positionality and not be like that meddling American who",
      "I am a paddling American. Of course, I can have critical conversations but I wouldn't throw something. I understand what you're saying. Before we came on air, Aminal had let me know that she had written an article for Muslim Matters, I think it is and I would like for Padra and I to listen",
      "to a synopsis and then join you in discussion I really appreciate that the discussion I appreciate hopefully it goes well so there's the chapter in the Quran called Surah Al-Araf and part of the discussion is about a group of people that really didn't commit like they were the people that were sleeping that said oh yeah this discussion",
      "the story of Prophet Moses, Musa peace be upon him and Pharaoh. And there's the people that on the day of judgment decided with Pharaoh when things don't go well for them. And then there's people that sided with prophet Musa and they are taken to heaven. And those are the people who are kind of just stuck there. On the Araf that didn't commit, they didn't come into righteousness. They weren't on the side of pharaohs. They're not like hey let's go oppress",
      "like this is not our fight. Silence is oppression. Silence IS oppression and I think it's really important to have that conversation, and part of the reason we were having that discussion within my own community is the group of about 25% I don't know exactly the studies of the American Muslim population that is Black that would've looked like a George Floyd that already understand what it's like to be-to",
      "Now the other 75%, it's your job to protect those who are vulnerable. It's your jobs to fight against systems of oppression, it is your job To stand on the side of Prophet Musa This is in our holy book. This is a prophet I can't come like if I want to meet Musa peace be upon him in heaven Like I want hang out with him. I have a list of questions about them crossing through the Red Sea. I just think it's fascinating",
      "I want to make sure that we end up on the right side. We can't look at discussions of righteousness and oppression and say, not my fight. It is your fight. What does it mean?",
      "you know, you're trying to be diplomatic and which is a good thing. But sometimes standing up for social justice means you will rock the boat. And sometimes you doing that will create disunity. Right? And the prophet created so much division in his community for standing up or justice. Sometimes we think unity is what is most important at what cost though. And so it's a tricky balance. Yes, unity matters but at what costs",
      "And as chaplains, there's always this tension between social justice and community cohesion. And there's no right and wrong way. I mean it's just something that you have to engage with case by case but I hope that we understand the narrative of social justice. That was very well said. I can see the dilemma, but how do we for those who want to what can we say",
      "to urge them on the side of Musa? What can we do to urge out a neutral where they recognize that silence is oppression? I honestly would urge to be on the site of the Prophet Muhammad. Yes, Musa is incredible and we should draw on his ideas but the Prophet was successful. He was",
      "He was a social reformer and revolutionary, and he achieved success. He knew how to mobilize human beings to create unity at the same time striving for social justice, to enact change by grassroots also at the state level if you had that power. I mean his example is so much more it resonates so much with our context. And of course the principles of social justice that Musa sort of enacted are also relevant but the prophet",
      "The Prophet was a community person, a humanitarian. Those things are so much proper. I think his story is so much more powerful and not to pit them against each other. We can use both but let's remember the Prophet. Peace be upon him. And the Prophet, peace be upon Him, the reason that we have those discussions in the Qur'an is so that we can learn from them. In my view, I don't think it's about rocking the boat. I don t think the boat is upside down. I don't think the boats functioning correctly. If it's just who gets to hold on on the outside of the boat then we're inherently saying",
      "There's some people in our community that are not welcome, that aren't included. And that's not okay. It was Imam Suhaib Sultan to his credit at Princeton. I really appreciate him. He's a good friend. May Allah give him complete shifa, like complete healing from his illness. That he was talking about this. He said there's a minimalist view and there's maximalist view where I'm gonna try to come up with what is the one thing that is the least controversial?",
      "And we'll only do that. But what it does is, it limits so much of the beauty and the discussion and the creativity. Instead let's try to do the opposite where it's like, let's present everything. And let's all have discussions to make sure our boat is big enough to carry everyone. That it is actually inclusive of everyone. And if I'm standing on principle, that's what made our tradition what it is. Prophet Muhammad peace be upon him in...",
      "person in teaching people and in dealing with their oppressions. He taught you right. But our prophet had his flaws. We're not going to Jesus Christ, our prophet where he did no wrong. He walked on water. He was perfect. He did this and that and the other because that is not the human being presented to us in the Quran. I think we have to continue to be careful",
      "careful to not join Christians and to elevating a prophet to God's like status. He wasn't always the kindest because he turns away a poor blind man while he's seeking some people who are wealthier. And it wasn't being the kindness. Right, but his example afterwards,",
      "It was narrated that he never behaved unkindly to that person. In fact, he went over the top to make it work. Did God write that? No, I said after the incident. No, but what I'm saying is we still have... Of course, of course, I agree with you. I didn't come to Islam with a perfect prophet who had no flaws, always corrected us. I came because the prophet was human.",
      "was human and I could see myself along a path. For those who wanna make our prophet perfect, that's fine but in the same way that Christians have done it over centuries to Jesus and he winds up being God, I would caution people to watch it. Right? I agree with making sure that we... To not ever forget the humanity of the Prophet peace be upon him. There isn't a very unfortunate understanding",
      "where we talk about him like he was wearing a cape and he was a superhero, he was Superman. He felt pain when he... To the point that Professor Amina just made that when God corrected him, he took the correction. And him being human is the reason. But I think that helps. I mean, I understand what Hajra was saying but I also think that have you read this book?",
      "book by Kamran Kasha, Mother of the Believers. It's very familiar. Let me tell you, if you haven't read it yet, I taught it like eight times but I liked it because all my non-Muslim students jumped on it. It was the first down to earth everyday story they had heard out of the mouth of a Muslim. All Muslims are perfect.",
      "or this is perfect, all the other's perfect. And then when Muslims get undressed they say oh well it was those over there not me. I agree with you and sometimes we lose the wisdom of the Prophet himself because we can't see when he was behaving like a human yeah and then we put them into like this absolute form rigid form that we have to follow to the letter instead of looking at what is",
      "ethical objective behind how he acted, he was acting within context and then realized those same ethics in our contemporary context. It enables growth and dynamism just because the prophet wore certain clothes or... Tell me about it. But it manifests in different ways in our community and I think that the celebrity Imam culture is just another manifestation of that",
      "the imam that is being held as does no wrong. And I think it's actually another form of idolatry, unfortunately. It is. You're frozen in time. You can slip on over. Our last question for the evening. I gave a talk and one of the things I tried to do was I centered the talk around looking at the prophets in the Quran and their challenges, et cetera, et",
      "But we have gone from everyday life to the throes and, oh my God, the chaos of pandemic. With the worst medical advice on the planet. Then we looked up and in the middle of that, we were trying to make sure we had supplies. The state cities closed down the Sajid.",
      "down the Sajjad. People went into a tradition frenzy. It's like, I'm so used to performing Islam. I don't know what to do if I can't perform Islam so somebody else can see me. Oh my God! Then we went into Ramadan. And it's oh my God, people really can't see me perform and do this and then we went from there pandemic is still happening to oh my god they're going to close Hajj.",
      "Talk, speak to it. I mean luckily they did close Hajj and a lot of mosques so they did comply but more recently also there's been mosque that are reopening and because of these social distancing rules some of them have decided to ban Muslim women from attending the prayers and they use the logic that the men you know",
      "therefore the woman's right is secondary, which is flawed. I'm actually writing a paper. To sue them. Well, they were stopped by lawyers but I'm also writing a newspaper on the legal logic behind this sort of like false thinking and just trying to show that Muslim women first of all in the Quran it obligates all those who have faith to Friday prayer",
      "the hadith is contextual when it says Muslim women, you don't need to perform the prayer Friday prayer in congregation. That's contextual. It groups them with the sick and the traveler and these other people disabled people. Women back there with the infirm. Why would what? Why would you put women with the six? No, no, no because their context didn't allow them to perform a weekly public",
      "public work, right? If your society is functions where women are in the house most of the time or near their houses then it's just so difficult to go to the private part. My wonderful sister. What I'm saying is that it's based on context. Women can decide for themselves what is best",
      "what is best for them. And based on that, the obligation holds. So if you are capable of going to the mosque and making the Fajr prayer, it's obligatory on you. And I think to your point, it gave women the choice. It almost on some level, it trusted them for their own spiritual well-being to make that decision for themselves. And the discussion... And I don't think I've ever started a fight this big on my Facebook page before. But that was again about this thing",
      "about this thing where people were saying, oh it's not obligatory on women. It never was and still Prophet Muhammad peace be upon him told us you can't ban the female slaves of Allah from the house of Allah I still have a right to that You don't want to tell me I'll set this up in another conversation because I don't read it that way Never read it That way would not I'd be Buddhist if I had read it",
      "a congregational prayer be obligatory on me unless there was an exception. And this is again... I'm saying it is, but that there's an exception for circumstance. So the Hadith is circumstantial. The general is... Well, I don't follow Hadith, but what I'm",
      "women do not if they read it that way, they'd be Buddhist or something else. Okay, so my question to you is, Do you think all the sahabi went and perform a Friday prayer? All the whole the sahabit? Oh, I don't know. That was so that's not even in my sphere thinking and I don' care. Right So what I'm saying is that that no, it's just like telling a woman she can't pray if she's on her menstrual cycle was supposed",
      "suppose she dies and she's on a minstrel because somebody said she can't pray. She's supposed to die without prayer? So how I view it is that it creates flexibility. No, I'm leaving it open to you. I'm just saying since this is a multicultural conversation, this culture says no to that. Which culture? The mostly American African",
      "and brown culture say no to that. So it's no to... The Quran says what it says. I think if you're menstruating... I think the discussion on menstruation, when I'm menstruating my body is physically worshipping God just in a different way. Immigrant understandings have so harmed the American African Black",
      "Black, white Native American community that there has to be an understanding of what's cultural understanding because even Arabs read the Arabic with a cultural understanding. Right? Yeah exactly and the Hadith should be seen as contextual which is what I was trying to get at No I'm saying for you they may be No contextual in the sense that it is one cultural",
      "one cultural realization of that. But we can still see that as an option because many South Asians, you know, they don't go to Friday prayer because I mean, that's a whole nother. Ladies, it has been as you and I'm going to hound you all because you're the only two Muslim. No, I know three Muslims. No four female Muslim chaplains. The audience deserves to hear you.",
      "you. I will keep arguing with you because you're the only ones I know and I'm having a ball and it'll move my day, but you all have been wonderful. Thank you again. Please say that you will come back if the producer says you are no. And you won't say I'm tired of Amina. I've had enough. But no, because Never get tired of you, Professor. For the young women to see skilled",
      "skilled, learned women who are articulate. Just go after it. This has been a critical talk with Professor Aminah Aldean and I hope to see you tomorrow night. Don't go nowhere."
    ]
  },
  {
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    "text": [
      "This is Critical Talk with Professor Aminah Aldean and I have the honor of having with me this evening Dawoud Wali. Surprise, surprise! Dawoud has studied across the way within the disciplines of Arabic",
      "of Arabic grammar and morphology, foundations of Islamic jurisprudence and sciences of the exegesis of the Quran. And he has previously served as the Imam at Masjid Wali Muhammad in Detroit and the Basel American Islamic Center in Hampshire. I can't pronounce that. I know where it is. Michigan.",
      "He's the author of the book Towards Sacred Activism, co-author of the books Centering Black Narratives, Black Muslim Nobles Among the Early Pious Muslims and Centering black narrative. Blackness in Africa and author of essays in the 2012 book All American 45 American men",
      "American men on being Muslim, as well as the 2014 book Quran in Conversation. And I'm going to ask him when we take a break if he could grab those books because I want to put them up. But right now I'm",
      "to talk with you about because you do so many wonderful things. But I kind of want to take you between the two worlds in which you function and I'm calling care a world, uh, and I am calling lamp post a world. And the two meet and then they diverge and then meet and they diverged and what better person to have here explaining all that? One",
      "things is I read the care national alerts daily and Islamophobia has gone down a rung or two although its instances creep up rungs and rungs. So at first, I want you to tell me how are you all handling that? Has the narrative changed because when",
      "say, I condemn, I pretty soon nobody's listening. So have you changed? But some of the stuff that's happening is horrible. Talk to me. Well first of all, assalamu alaikum and thank you very much for having me on and it's my pleasure and my honor to be on your show and you as a prolific academic",
      "that really groundbreaking form that you helped organize years ago where you brought together academics, religious scholars and community activists. Where we had that two day discussion in Chicago. We need to do that again. We really need to get it over stream yard or over Zoom. But in this particular climate things have changed",
      "and they have changed in the last four years for the better, in some ways than for the worst. And so right. So I like to start off with some of the positives. One of those things is that the Muslim community in general is not treated as a third rail politically speaking from many in the Democratic Party or people who label them",
      "or people who label themselves as progressives. And we are no longer the whipping board in corporate media or mainstream media, as we were prior to the election of Donald J Trump. That form anti-Muslim bigotry or Islamophobia has actually gone down and decreased from my vantage point.",
      "let's go back to 2008 even. I remember when President Barack Hussein Obama was running for president and he was being labeled as a undercover Muslim or a Muslim in hiding, right? And dealing with Muslims was like basically dealing with... We were like a radioactive community. Even the president himself at",
      "to, well you know his father is a Kenyan Muslim or and he grew up in Indonesia. He's a secret Muslim. His answer overwhelmingly was, well I'm not a Muslim, I'm a Christian instead of being like what even if I wasn't Muslim so what? Right though but now we fast forward to where we're at right now and those types of indictments of Muslims getting involved",
      "American way of life and creeping Sharia, even with Ilhan Omar as much as she gets attacked these days or Rashida Tlaib that's in my backyard here in Detroit. Even they aren't subjected to many of the things that were said just going back in 2008. So these are kind of like... And people in the Democratic Party like Nancy Pelosi will even get up and even support an endorsed Congresswoman Tlaibe. So there have been some more political space for Muslims in this regard. However I would say",
      "I would say that some things have gotten worse. And one of those things has gotten worse is that we have someone in the White House who is, let's just say what it is, he's a white nationalist. When he first came into the White house and his executive order was to have the Muslim travel ban on those Muslim countries which has gone into three different iterations,",
      "which of course, you know the majority practice religion on the African continent. Not just North Africa but Sub-Saharan Africa is a religion of Islam, is Muslims and I've spent time with the scholars in Mali as well as in Senegal. So some of this outward xenophobia and outward bigotry that even made its way into executive orders",
      "has actually exasperated and gotten worse than from previous years. So we have the compounding of bad policies that started with the Patriot Act, and the undoing of the FISA Court through the NSA, and then other sorts of policies like such as CVE that start under the Obama administration. Now we have compounded on top- Oh wait a minute, can you go back and explain what CVE is? I mean, I know but I don't know",
      "but I don't know that everybody in the audience does. Okay, thank you. It's a countering violent extremism program that was patterned off of a program called Prevent in the UK that basically treated the Muslim community as a suspect community that would need some sort of special intervention to counter radicalism or counter violent extremist which then",
      "which then basically put Muslims even more so under the microscope of being national security threats. And, of course, we know this was a failed analysis given historically in the United States of America, the highest percentage of people who have committed violent extremism and mass shootings happen to be white males who profess",
      "Historically, the biggest, the most prolific group of terrorists in the United States of America has been the Ku Klux Klan. Right? So that's the flaw of CVE. But now we have some of these other policies and some of this rhetoric that has come from Mr. Trump.",
      "individual acts of workplace bigotry. These things have actually gotten worse in the last four years. These sorts of things have gotten worse. Well, I think the reason I wanted to start with care was, you know, in the African-American community and maybe in the Black community in general, there's been a kind of, oh, they're talking about them, not me. And",
      "And oh, that these acts are happening to them and they're not banning me. They're banning them. And it's not that I don't have to pay attention but I don' t have to be really worried. And I don''t want the things that are important about those that seek to erase the presence of Islam because I do read the Middle East forum unfortunately for me",
      "in there uh it's just it's a tirade it is a tirate every day against well the brotherhood is here and care is up front for the brother hood and i'm saying do you even really know who the brother hud is and which brotherhood are you talking about you know i mean it's an ongoing",
      "and say, what is your problem? Don't you have anything else to talk about? Of course he didn't answer me but he does know me because he tried to get me fired a couple of times. They have not let up which means we cannot let up. I was looking over what has changed about the language",
      "Because language, as you and I both know, is extremely important. You can't – you can just say I condemn, I condemn but what else? Well, I think that if anyone would look at CARES press releases from the national level, I never got into it here in Michigan much of the condemnation game because it's kind of not – first",
      "for certain acts of violence that go overseas in which Muslims are the majority of the victims of that violence, right? But also it plays into this black bad frame where we actually defecto or connecting ourselves or taking some sort of responsibility or onus as if we have control of what goes on over there. Which we can't even fast a month of Ramadan on the same day much less control with someone does",
      "If someone dies over in Lebanon, right? You don't have any control over that. Right. But what you'll see from Care National is that there has been basically little to no condemnation of things that have gone on overseas or abroad and simply because again we don't feel the need",
      "for what people are doing overseas that has nothing to do with our daily lives here, of what we have control over as American Muslims. So yeah, we can pray for peace and some of us do have family members in certain countries such as Somalia where there's been issues about extremism and the terrorist group Shabab that's there but it is to say that",
      "don't necessarily feel the need that we just have to condemn, condemn, if anything. We as citizens of the United States of America and you'll see that CARES in this a lot more, we condemn the state sponsored violence that takes place against citizens and legal residents in this country. Right. Meaning that the violence that ISIS committed, the violence at the FBI is committed such as when Imam al-Khamed was a victim of homicide by the FBI",
      "the FBI, the violence that's taken place against people such as George Floyd and Breonna Taylor who's the police no arrests have been made in that case yet. Isn't that something? Huh? I said no arrest yet! No, no arrest yes or the type of violence and public policy that would lead to America having",
      "than any other country in the world, including Supermax and 23-hour lockdown, which Amnesty International and other international bodies, including the UN has said that the United States prison system is committing human rights violations against its own citizens. So that's the type of violence that... That's the types of things that we're more in the business of condemning these days than something that's going on over halfway across the world that we have no control over.",
      "over well i think that that is laudable and i'm hoping that people are following both the local chapters and looking at the language because there's been a switch and i don't know if you weren't uh following you know that you notice some a switch in how things are handled",
      "political because i want to dig down in your books which one you want he's having to have them near you uh hold on one second okay wait a minute oh let us go for the break hey one minute break great",
      "We are back and I am determined that my guests who are writing in the midst of all of the other things that they do get a plug here on Muslim Network TV. So which book do you want to start with first? Well, we'll start off first",
      "We'll start off first with the book that I co-authored with Ahmed Mubarak. Also, yes it's right here is called Centering Black Narrative, black Muslim nobles among their early pious Muslims. Where can we get that book? Can we get it on Amazon? Yes ma'am you can get it amazon.com or also Mecca books and what that book is about is",
      "is we tried to historically highlight some of the righteous Muslims who would phenotypically be seen as Black that came from the first two generations of Muslims. And in this book, we did not write about Bilal because with many... I mean obviously many Muslims are familiar with Bilal but we also felt that Bilal",
      "is tokenized sometimes. So like when we talk about issues or race, or blackness being not respected, or even a race within the narrative of the Muslim community, we both had shared experience where they say well what about Bilal? Or I love Bilal! Or things like that right so we didn't write about Bilau in the first volume of centering Black narrative, Black Muslim nobles among their early pious Muslims but",
      "but that was the impetus behind writing that. And then we wrote a volume two called Centering Black Narrative, Ahlubait, Blackness in Africa, which talks about some of the descendants of the Prophet Muhammad peace be upon him, including those who had African mothers because a number of them had African",
      "phenotypically black or would be seen as Black Arabs given that Arab is not a race. It is normally linked to one's paternal lineage, as well as the cultural tie and normally some sort of connection to the Arabic language. So just there are Arabs with blue eyes",
      "and green eyes of light color skin in Syria. Then there are Black Arabs in Sudan and Mauritania, right? So we wanted to write a book about that. Then the third book that came out about... Now I'm saying you all have been having fun. Go ahead. Yeah. And then this book which Imam Zaid Shaker wrote the foreword for instead that Alina Safi wrote a quick introduction is called Towards Sacred Activism",
      "Activism. And this book is kind of like a guidebook for a class that I developed as like a type of primer about how some ideas I had about spiritually based activism, about how to weave in Islamic spirituality and some of our theology in terms of social justice activism. So those are the three that I've written.",
      "years with the publisher in the UK right now. And it will be entitled Blackness and Islam. In this particular book, we'll be dealing with some of the weak or fabricated hadiths that some orientalists use to critique Islam or say that Islam is anti-Black",
      "that were made by some scholars of the medieval time period, that were really... I can't even use a word. Not nice, racist, right? So is Islam and the Quran racism free? Of course, but of course Muslim scholars and Muslim civilizations have not always been racism-free",
      "racism free. As a matter of fact, that's far from the case in certain time periods in Islamic civilization when there was a lot of ethnic chauvinism in certain periods of our history. So that's what the upcoming book will be about. It should be out by late October, early November, God willing. Oh, so you're getting a lot asleep, huh? Just writing and writing and",
      "had already started writing this book and you know I had a time period or timeframe that I was going to try to have it submitted for the first round of edits by December but this was the, I guess the hidden blessing of being on lockdown during COVID-19. I had nowhere to go, I had no where to travel. Yeah I would normally",
      "that time that I would normally have for traveling or going to different places, I just hunkered down and just did more writing since I couldn't go anywhere. Oh, I'm loving it. So all of these books, the ones not the one you're working on now are available to our audience on Amazon or Mecca? Yes. They're on amazon.com. Let me encourage",
      "please pick up the book. Just like you were going to pick up Donald Trump's nieces mess, pick up a book. It is important that we build the library from among us for us increases in knowledge or, you know, that's, that' Now then I've done that. I want to make a pivot back and go to lampposts",
      "I know and have supported, but I want you to tell the audience about Lampost's vision and its mission. Okay well I am a member of a board member of Lamp Post Educational Initiative that organization started by Dr Abdullah bin Hamid Ali who teaches Islamic law at",
      "law at Zaytuna College. He grew up in Philadelphia and then he went on to Morocco where he got the meat and potatoes of his Islamic studies background, and also brother Khalil Musin who's from Philadelphia they were",
      "of LAMP Post Educational Initiative, which is a platform for two things. One the platform is to try to get out scholarly information and scholarly discourse that's coming from some may be uncomfortable with this language but from an indigenous perspective, indigenous Muslim perspective number one. And then also too, to try",
      "even if they have differing opinions or differing views, but there can be venues that are set up or convenes set up so that we can disagree. But at least we should be agreeable or have some sort of cordiality and be cordial in how we disagree. In which it was supposed to have a third one in October. It wasn't able",
      "There was a Black American Muslim conference. And you know something, and I have to say this because lampposts receive a lot of blowback about, oh, well, there's no race in Islam or why are you having this Black Muslim conference? This is nationalism. But see, when the Syrians have their conference, no one said that's nationalism.",
      "nationalism or when the palestinians have american muslims for palestine to all those syria is islamic palestina's islami kashmir is islamiq and we want to talk about stuff that affects black folks in our lineage and how we come from revert or convert backgrounds some of the particular issues that we deal with such as having family members who aren't muslim",
      "percentages of our population being returning citizens, I mean people who embrace Islam while they're in corrections and how to re-acclimate people in society. Well those aren't Islamic enough for some people that's being... As a matter of fact we got called racist for having the Black American Muslim Conference.",
      "or who the other person was. I mean, but they were holding it. Oh my God, you're racist and how are you gonna have a black anything? We just like white folks are not going to permit you to do that. It's basically what it is, basically the attitude. You know, there has to be certain gatekeepers about what we can do and what we cannot do, but we went ahead with it",
      "We haven't finished putting it together, but kind of like what ISNA is trying to have an online type of conference or online seminar where we have a similar idea that although we cannot have the convening in Atlanta in October as we were planning during the COVID-19 cases spiking again down Georgia,",
      "you know, debate and discuss some issues. And again, we're trying to model some differences of opinion but at least, you know at least we're starting off from our tradition. And I also have to say this too one thing that many people don't understand about lampposts board members on lamppos ourselves have different opinions about different things. We don't agree about everything as far as FIC or everything relating",
      "everything relating to politics. We all don't follow the Maliki school of thought and we have different views on certain things that relates to systemic racism and things like that. However, we do believe that we can provide a platform and have these discussions in the lens of our tradition and spirituality right? And I think that's part of what is missing in American society today.",
      "We have too much cancel culture. And some of this, unfortunately, has crept into the Muslim community that if someone disagrees with something that I really believe in, then somehow they're like my enemy or my adversary and I'm not supposed to like them. Well, you know what? We can disagree on something and then we can sit down and have some tea afterwards and chuckle and still love each other. And that's how it should be. Well I think, you",
      "is so needed um because you're right it took me a minute to catch up with what cancel culture meant and then i got it my granddaughter helped me out i got in and said oh my goodness that's the crap people have been doing forever uh you don't agree with me you don t exist okay and so now it s got a name and i got",
      "post tries to put out there for people to take advantage of well some of those have been a series of classes that primarily been uh done and led by uh abdullah ali who of course is the leader and he's taught most of the classes um i believe he's going to have one about his uh his most recent book um the title verbatim is slipping my mind right now but it's about",
      "It's about black people in the Arab Muslim consciousness, which this was what he based his dissertation off of. So having classes about fiqh or Islamic jurisprudence about certain things that relates to creed. He just also wrote something",
      "be controversial, but he was articulating something about his political views and as it relates to the current political situation right now with Donald Trump and Joe Biden. And basically challenging the notion that just because Trump is vulgar",
      "we should run and throw ourselves in the laps of white liberals and Biden. Exactly right, but he basically is challenging that maybe we analyze this thing and you know we make some calculated decisions about what we need to do but that we shouldn't give ourselves totally over to the agenda of the progressive left just because Trump",
      "have been so vitriolic, right? And I think that's something for us that deserves at least a read and some pondering and evaluation. And I know that Usted Abdullah, Dr. Abdullah he doesn't mind people writing refutations, right. So if you read it and want to refute it then by all means refute but we should at least try the deal starting from a place of facts and not feelings.",
      "feelings. Don't be sheep. The shepherd flicks his whip and you all go running this way, flicks the other way and you run that way. Be discerning. One of the works that Ustad Abdullah dealt with as far as translating is a return to purity and greed which is a good translation. He has done some",
      "done some other translations. So these books can be gotten on LAPT Post's website, and one of the good things about these translations that are being done by these old texts or these classic texts from American scholars in not to sound nationalistic but African Americans in particular is that it's translated",
      "by Americans whose English is their first language. Because I know back in the day, I remember reading this translation of a book of Imam Ghazali back like in the late 80s or early 90s. It was translated by somebody in India or Pakistan but it was so awkward I was getting a headache trying to understand what is he actually writing?",
      "Right. So now you can get some of these works or some of things done with a clear translation with someone, or people who understand, you know, we have our idiom and understand how we process things. And that's very important. It is critical because people have been left out. They want to improve their knowledge base but they're not going to read South Asian English. That's right.",
      "you know to get there and the thou and those than these and whatever um together but i think um lamppost has you know in many communities been kind of obscured uh which is why I'm trying to say something about it today because they were having something at some point kind of a fireside chat do you remember what I'm talking about",
      "something humor um and people would come into a fixed place to have conversations you said a fireside chat is this this something uh maybe two years ago okay i can't remember what you're talking about top of my head it was advertised and i kept trying",
      "Please go get online do something and people were still asking me. What was lamppost? Oh, I figured that I would use a little bit of this to Say what it is your board member you can certainly say what it ends this effort Muslim Network TV will only be as strong as all of us make it and",
      "critical talk. I'm trying to get to everybody I know and don't know, to bring issues where Muslims that concern us but also issues about which we have something to say. So having said that, I'm going to take another minute break. This is Critical Talk with Professor Aminah Aldoon.",
      "I know this was not in the questions that I sent you, but I'm also renowned for popping stuff up. I am so intrigued. First of all, as soon as I get off this show, I'm going and order these books",
      "books and get my kids to order them because it's so very important. And I think what we might do in the future, if you're willing is to have a book talk where there are let's just really after we've read them, talk about them because they're important. They're as important",
      "however they are, deems important. So if you're willing I'm more than happy because I'm nosy and I want to see what's in the book but as we sit and we're not at the end what the media has done is it has quieted any news of protests. It has functioned on like you were talking about earlier an emotional turn defund the police",
      "on the police. Many of us, myself included, didn't know where the police got all their money from. Now we're finding out where the place get all their mone that they have this immunity clause and I'm saying oh really in Chicago millions of dollars are spent on bad police cases you know giving money to families where",
      "looking with the wrong address and all of this stuff. And but defund the police, I think actually meant let us use some of the money that we put into the police for social services and mental health issues. But defunding the police became a strategy, a get back at them strategy. You know,",
      "to change the narrative. We're going to keep it there because we can get people riled up like the knuckles they have on their motorbikes. Your thoughts? Well, I think that and this is like hindsight 2020 but that language defund the police maybe didn't accurately convey what many people were really saying",
      "saying or even abolished the police which is even more controversial language about not defunding that there are no police but certain problematic programs of the police and of course it has been used. And President Trump was using it right now in TV commercials that we see where someone picks up the phone say oh I'm sorry the police have been defunded then you won't have anyone coming for next two days and things like",
      "Most Americans don't know that police departments in many of our major cities are paying a foreign military to train the police departments on so-called riot control or crowd control. Right? Israel has made a fortune. Yeah, they're making a fortune and even",
      "that supplies the Israeli military with tear gas to shoot on Palestinian civilians is the same company that makes tear gas, that goes to police departments that tear gas people in Portland and Minneapolis and Ferguson and Detroit, Michigan. So a lot of people don't know this also the issue",
      "are the police unions. Like, police don't need to be unionized like how auto workers, like no one would think that the U.S. Navy or Army would need to have a union. But our police departments now that are militarized don't deserve to have this sort of shield that then even if they get in some sort of trouble,",
      "union is there to have them keep their job, even if they have three, four, five, six weeks of police brutality. And then they don't pay any money. You know, the late Dick Gregory had a really good idea about this. Dick Gregory said that bad behavior, there has to be some sort of not incentivizing, but",
      "these police officers who do what they do. So he said that if legislation could be tied in, that their pensions would be taken away and would be used for these wrongful claims of police brutality, that would make them act more responsible because even police that maybe will get let go from a police department, like for instance, Officer Coons,",
      "beat down Rodney King. Well, he still was entitled to get his police pension, right? So Dick Gregory had this very... Some say it was a radical idea. I think it was great radical idea that there needs to be consequences. So take their pensions and instead of the taxpayers paying twice,",
      "as well as paying all these settlements, take it away from the funds of this pension. Take it away my husband did a little bit of research and what he found out was that many police in small and large areas urban areas and small rural areas are working members of the KKK.",
      "And so, you know, to expect them to act differently. I mean like the man with his knee on George Floyd's neck was posing. People took that picture and had it blown up and put on walls in KKK lodges.",
      "you just said about dick gregory he and i went to the same high school by the way okay um i think that's um one of the things that is important is we begin to lay out for all of us all of the",
      "of the KKK. We know that unions with giving them immunity forces citizens to pay twice if they ever get brought up on a charge at all and we know therefore like you said at the top of the show nobody has been charged for Breonna Taylor",
      "forward to let this moment slip away. So in the last few minutes, let's talk about how we can not let the moment slipaway. What do we need to do? Well I think there is something as Muslims see this internal work so there's always internal and external. I believe you also have an internal game plan and external game plan.",
      "a lot of the issues that we have in our community, that we need to improve upon is political education. Right? It's political education and I think this is some of the deficit that we've had in our communities as far as the history of policing in America, the history actually how America was structured into an overt racial hierarchy and then de facto racial hierarchies",
      "hierarchies and then how these different, how these hierarchies have there's residue in how they can continue to play themselves out including in policing, including the issue of mass incarceration. I think a lot of it has to do with education. And before I get to second point, I just want to highlight this. I was on a call with a number of organizers, civil rights organizers in the Muslim community.",
      "almost all of them Arab Americans and South Asians. Relaying to the issues that we're talking about right now, a number of them said well you know this is we are changes the system was broken the system is broken I heard him say system's broken about three or four times I said hold up a second I said the systems not broken it's operating exactly",
      "Right. But that just shows a deficiency in understanding history and how this country was established. So we have to educate ourselves because if we don't have the proper facts to move forward, we can't do the proper organizing to help unify with other people for better solutions. How do we roll out this political organization? I'm sorry. Well, I'll tell you what we're doing here.",
      "doing here in Michigan and we're actually going to have something at 7 p.m on Wednesday where we are announcing it so you get a sneak peak but here, the care office here in",
      "where we are going through different aspects of the history of this country, starting with Native Americans or Indigenous Americans and ethnic cleansing, dealing with the issue of chow slavery, and then how this moved into how policing evolved in the area of reconstruction, where the overseers became the officers, literally. Overseer, officer, overseer.",
      "through a number of these issues and we're going to make it available. And a lot of children will not be in school, high school students. And this can be like supplementary instruction, right? So at least here in Michigan, and it'll be online and anyone can watch it throughout the country but we've put together and we've talked with some people relationship to curriculum so we're trying",
      "be have some robustness and can spark people to read more we'll have a suggested booklet list at the same time it will be at the level where someone who's at uh ninth grade tenth grade uh reading level of cognitive skills will be able to absorb and digest uh most if not all the information so this is what",
      "two days online and then it will start in September, inshallah. Okay. Do me a favor. Can you keep up with me so I make sure I announce that like 100 times? Sure thing. Because people need to have it wherever they are. Now back to the second one. So the second",
      "are doing on the grassroots relating to police accountability, community policing, legislative reform. And this is something that people should be doing in their localities. And I say this with all due respect to many people who are on the national organizing scene and suggesting people to get involved by going to national organizations.",
      "that people should get involved in what's going on their locality and get to know who's doing what in their locale. Because local shifting and policing can't work from a top down type of approach, it has to work from the locality. So grassroots not grass tops as they say right? So this is my suggestion which means",
      "building some relationships. And I know that's kind of difficult right now during COVID-19 pandemic, but God willing this isn't going to last forever, but there are opportunities and localities at least for people to get plugged in your locality. For instance, this is related to a national issue, but today ICNA here in Michigan held a forum",
      "forum online at 4 p.m eastern they had earlier today about political education and letter writing around the imam jameel el amin case right so that was local people here which works to have basically a teach-in uh about space for justice",
      "Well, let me just say this has been an eye-opener. I can't thank you enough for honoring me at Critical Talk on Muslim Network TV. We'll chase you down again because I got to keep up with stuff. You know, I'm sitting down here and let us get on fire in Chicago so I have",
      "I have to keep in touch and hopefully you will watch Muslim Network TV, put it in your network. Everybody listening they will hear you again and programs that Lampost has the initiatives that Care Michigan is doing. I want to know it all Do you have a last word? Well my last word is simply may Allah bless you and may Allah reward you",
      "and may Allah preserve the Muslim TV network, and the work that Imam Abdul Malik Mujahid is trying to do to help lift us up and give us a voice in the Muslim community. That we're not always dependent on other people to do for us what we should do for ourselves. Kind of like the 1990s clothing brand FUBU, For Us By Us. We need FUBu media right?",
      "For us and by us. Okay, let me give my salams to ask you to stay on. This has been Critical Talk with Professor Aminah Al-Teen. I have had as my wonderful guest Imam Dawood Wali. So long."
    ]
  },
  {
    "file": "amina_mccloud/Critical Talk with Prof_ Aminah Al-Deen Ph_D__ulnrfmr_j4Y&pp=ygUVQW1pbmFoIE1jQ2xvdWQgIGlzbGFt_1742895082.opus",
    "text": [
      "Good afternoon. This is Critical Talk with Professor Amina Aldi, and I have the wonderful pleasure of continuing a conversation with two very well-known chaplains in universities. One is Dr. Amina Darwish, and she's the Muslim Life Coordinator at the Columbia University. She's Ernie Jazza.",
      "traditional Islamic studies certifications from Kalam Seminary in Dallas and the Critical Loyalty Seminary, Toronto. She earned a PhD in chemical engineering before switching careers to follow her true passion as she is passionate folks. She's worked at work as an adjunct faculty of the University of Cincinnati Claremont and Northern Kentucky University",
      "Hajra Sharif is the imam, say it right, imama and chaplain. I love this term. She holds a bachelor's degree in philosophy and economics from Wesleyan College, one of my favoritest places, and a master's in Islamic studies with both academic and traditional training.",
      "Muslim countries such as Jordan, Malaysia, Palestine, Turkey and Indonesia. Welcome ladies. Thank you for having us. I could have y'all on every night and my life would be just a joy. Likewise. We talked a little bit about chaplaincy and some things but I want to dig a little deeper",
      "to how what is the training in Muslim chaplaincy? Either one of you can jump in there. Sure so I actually worked for Boston Islamic Seminary, so I had like a little bit of a sneak peek behind the scenes of what the curriculum development is like they haven't launched yet but",
      "But basically they're an institution that hopes to offer a master's program as well, to serve, to develop religious leaders, to service the Muslim American community. And in my work as a Kukum writer I helped develop 80 course descriptions as well as three syllabuses for courses that range from Aqidah, Fiqh, Dazkiyah, Quran and Sunnah, pastoral care, counseling, leadership,",
      "sociology, history and religion courses etc. So it was quite a number of uh quite a variety of courses and I noticed um in these courses you can see a methodology so they offer religious sciences pastoral care skills building as well as secular courses",
      "manual in their course manual they explicitly state that their educational philosophy is focused on three things knowledge of Islamic texts, knowledge of contemporary context and skill building. And I just think that this methodology is extremely robust because one of the primary problems that the Muslim community has is not even being relevant to people's actual realities. And so um this focus on understanding contemporary context,",
      "understanding, you know counseling developing those skills I think it's crucial in developing a great Muslim chaplain as well as any Muslim religious leader and You know some of the questions that I've been asked as a chaplain, you they relate to marriage or relationships Or even you know can a student take an interest-bearing student loan now if if you don't have this understanding of context if chaplains aren't sort of trained to",
      "sort of trained to give importance to context. Someone might just tell the student, no you're not allowed to take an interest bearing loan but this is in American context there's not a lot of options for students to secure any type of loan and not having access to this loan could jeopardize their studies and the result of that is poverty. So having this understanding of context knowing",
      "certain rulings and knowing how to respond to actual people's questions is really important for a chaplain to do. And that's something that I really admire about Boston Islamic Seminary. There are a few other institutions out there like Islamic Seminar of America, Yasser Qadi, Ma'am Suleiman, and Tamar Gray are associated with those institutions. I haven't worked with them so I can't speak to their work but they do have a website and they're up-and-coming and so that's another option as well.",
      "Yes. I first want to apologize, my neighbors are having a concert so if you can hear the background music. We could join after the show is over. But I didn't personally graduate from the Hartford Seminary but the bulk of the chaplains that I've met especially within academic institutions a lot of them did graduate from",
      "how with producing these chaplains that could have conversations with the institutions. The seminaries that I attended, the Qalam Seminary is when it first started and still is a very traditional seminary they have now included other faculty that have also studied academically and traditionally. The Critical Loyalty Seminary does try to balance the traditional with the academic discussions because to Hajara's point when you're meeting with students some of them are like",
      "them are like, hey can I wipe over my socks? And the other student is what about a loan and it's just...and then someone that's really struggling with their iman in terms of how do i handle the discussion on evolution in my classes. How do we understand our Islamic history where I'm coming from a place of pride. Like I understand that there's a problem with the colonialist narrative,",
      "to have those conversations are really important on one side, but the other part of it that is also really important is trying to understand how do we fit within the institution? How do I converse? How Do I communicate with the university administration? How did we try to figure out solutions within an academic context so that we can say accommodate students who are fasting during Ramadan. So there's a lot- Let me, let me cause you're only talking about Muslim students. Universities have loads of students chaplains are supposed to serve everybody",
      "serve everybody. If your training is only about things Islam and you only talk to Muslim students, how are you doing the true role of a chaplain at a university? Yeah that's actually a great question. Luckily I um not luckily but i didn't actually go to Boston Islam Center or any of these seminars in",
      "But that is a great question. You do need to study worldviews of other religions so that you can have- So if you don't do this in your training, Ammon I'm sorry? I think the Hartford Seminary more than any of the other ones was better at doing that and I mean, I agree. A lot of it was just on the job or just my own interfaith work that gave me the language and the capacity to be able to talk about religion.",
      "that is really important also just being in terms of activism recognizing when people are having a discussion about religious freedom in America what do they actually mean and what is what is freedom of religion how do we have conversations with other religious groups so that we are maintaining that sense of actually protecting that ideal without having someone abuse it I think what was what I really appreciated about my experience at the University",
      "of both Muslim and Jewish students that walking into a space, I know I needed to represent both groups of like hey we need halal food and we need kosher food. And it was essentially presenting that same argument you're more likely to gain traction with the university if you are presenting as an interfaith discussion in the same way that is in a space where there would be more... If a space has Islamophobia or probably also has antisemitism probably also just unfortunately",
      "or Buddhism, or other religions that being in that space I need to know enough about hey no we need to make sure those students are also accommodated and I can be here even if i'm not part of your tradition to amplify your voice through the university. Let me dig on that a little bit more. I dug on it last time. I am not a proponent of people having special foods to go to college they go to",
      "that can be a slippery slope. If you have conservative Orthodox Jewish folk, then you got to separate the meat from the dairy and then if you have this over here, you gotto separate the this from the that and I can't have... The pan should never have cooked pork in it. That's very slippery slope It depends on the proportions of the students, I feel",
      "I feel when there's a large enough group of students, again more than 1,000 Muslim students on Columbia's campus at core. A lot of them are paying for meal plans and if you're expecting the students to live on campus to eat in the dining hall then it's part of your university's experience then it becomes also a part of the university's",
      "is bringing people together around food. And I felt like it was very impactful to some of the cultures. I mean, I taught at DePaul. I've taught at Harvard. I'm in different places. Muslims clumped together and between their scarves and their coffees warning people don't come over here. They don't mix. So I would say that being responsive to different food needs is actually good for business.",
      "That's actually why even restaurants are being accommodating to the needs of vegetarians. Sure, maybe we- And Rosa and I are out of business right now but go ahead. I'm just saying- I mean, I don't have the statistics. I am sure you know we can look into the numbers but clearly there is a benefit otherwise why would they do that? Muslims are part of the market so if they want Muslims",
      "they have to be accommodating. Maybe a Muslim will decide to go elsewhere if they don't have that option. Do you know how many cultures reside in the United States? And what would happen if colleges and universities... Muslims are a very tiny part of the United State. Tiny, teeny-tiny. Yep. And there are groups who are not as demanding as Muslims are or far larger. I mean,",
      "I mean, I don't actually even know if most universities and colleges give halal options. I think only at elite universities and they tend to have the demographics to support that. I'm just digging and waking you up. No but I appreciate it because I learned a lot from the Jewish students just if I didn't have a halal option I was going to eat kosher and I was gonna hang out with Jewish students because that was my food option. Well that is another thing that bothers me",
      "excuse me, at DePaul, our chaplain. He's now I think head of whatever university like whatever you call that but he has made an effort to break the cliques of Muslims up and force them by teaching courses in Islam in Chicago doing a lot of different things",
      "out of their bubbles and into interactions with other students because they've left to their druthers, they stay in their bubble. Honestly I think this is what everyone does not just Muslims white people do it too but because they're the majority where they're seen as a standard if you look at who are the friend groups of a lot of white people there's just",
      "Muslims who are targeted and honestly, you know if you are a minority you need that support system It's just like daily my progressions every day don't have people look claim Anything else beside being in your bubble If you're claiming to fight for social justice if you're Claiming to do all of these things and you're in a bubble where everybody looks like you then how the hell are you doing? All those things sure. That's definitely a trajectory we need but",
      "but development of self comes first before you can offer to others. If you don't even, if you are like- So going to the liberal arts school for the Muslim is not about getting a liberal education and meeting people from other places. It's finding oneself. It' everything. Okay. I think the balance of that is making... And I think I mentioned this last time when we were talking",
      "it was very intentionally trying to reach out to different Muslims in America are the most diverse ethnic group, most ethnically diverse. And they don't talk to each other but go ahead. And that was me trying to break that within the Muslim community itself of no we're gonna acknowledge that there's different cultures and we're going to celebrate them in a way that hopefully allows us to still celebrate our identities but also reach out",
      "we were, if without COVID, we would have had four nights that were specifically celebrating. We had last year, we did Senegalese food, Somali food and just soul food. And again, because we're in New York, we're really privileged to be able to do this. The students from the Black Student Organization, Muslim or not came because it was one of a few spaces to celebrate a black culture in a way that wasn't talking about something that was negative. It was just",
      "and we're just going to eat yummy food. Some Muslims are saying that the Muslims should celebrate themselves first. I mean, it's not about what's first and later but I'm just pointing out the reality. The reality is that Muslims are targets of the state under incredible pressure and surveillance. Some",
      "and Latino Muslims are not targeted. Native Americans- If your religion is being disparaged on the media, you are targeted. If there's so much- Black, brown, Native American, and white Muslims are now targeted for deportation or detention. Yeah, that's not what I was getting at. I was going to get a general climate of hate and anti Muslim bigotry. That's enough to break someone down.",
      "someone down. I lived in a Muslim country and I was astonished by the psychological well-being that I suddenly attained just from being surrounded by people who supported me, and if you have not lived abroad you have no idea the difference! I never in my entire life realized how damaged i felt living in the U.S., it's only when",
      "that. So, I mean, you know, Muslims are going through a lot. We should be sensitive to that but we do need to reach out to allies. We do need engage with the greater society and hopefully inshallah we can develop. Well, I think the difference is in that the Black, Brown, Native American and white have a multi-religious family. And they don't feel what you feel. And",
      "in some instances said when are you moving to me or feel good yeah if when you feel at home where you feel supported is outside of the united states the question often is when are",
      "blaming us for everything and scapegoating us? No. If I, you know... Well, that's a different story. But I think if I've lived overseas for extended periods of time, I have never felt so unwelcome. I've been stereotyped. The racism rolls off of people's tongues and down their sleeves. So the comfort you feel... No, no, no. Okay.",
      "don't so I also experience those things and I mean, I think you mentioned feeling at home But I didn't use this words that I don't feel at home. I'm just saying there was a difference psychologically Hmm. There's definitely a difference just because it's different doesn't mean it's perfect I mean of course I stopped before living in the United States. I still prefer living in I see if I'm an American but to build Sorry to be help try to build a cohesive American Muslim community",
      "other and their experiences are so vastly different. In a post 9-11 world more than half of our Muslim youth, I believe it was a care study that said they were bullied in school for being Muslim. So there's part of the healing of what about my Muslim identity and what about other identities because depending on how you present in American society you're still going to have a fundamentally different experience. And one common thread that brings all the Muslims together is their Muslimness",
      "their Muslimness and the part of trying to create that sense of cohesion, it becomes important as Muslims we're all going to for example go to Jummah or fast during Ramadan. Now how do I make that space now actually representative of all the segments of the Muslim community so that there's... And it's funny to me because my students someone would almost every Jumma, we have more than 200 people that come to our Jummah, almost every week someone will be like, I didn't like the khutbah this week. And I'm like well wait till next week,",
      "that's gonna talk about because we learn Islam within those contexts, we're expecting it to look a certain way. So if I say go to a khutbah and the Imam doesn't yell at me and tell me I'm horrible and I need to do better for one person that's like wait a minute I didn't learn anything this khutba. No no you're maybe you're learning something else or maybe you were learning about how someone else in our community is going to respond and I use that as a joke alhamdulillah",
      "Hopefully, how do we build a strong relationship with Allah? How do we built strong relationships with each other? But part of it is having a diversity of speakers so that you are representing people and saying this was my experience in these different Muslim spaces. And this is what it looks like. Wallahualam I don't know if I helped. Translate We have asked that we damp down the religious talk. So if you're going to use it please translate for our non-Muslim",
      "that this is your time to experience that, understand that and engage with it. And hopefully still gain something from that reminder, the weekly reminder. I'm looking at our comments coming from outside. I like for young people to hear from you too. I wonder if there's anything in the comment section because I like listening to women.",
      "But also, you know when I asked how many have ever heard one of the Chinese imams give the khutbah and nothing? How many have heard the ones from Australia or South Africa or oh I don't know Malaysia striking stirring khutba's",
      "well, we seem to want to have an ethnic only representation of Islam. I can count the African-American or Latino chaplains and universities who are well, well, very well qualified but they are not seen as representing Islam and are not brought in",
      "That is the definition of unfortunate. And I feel almost a betrayal to what the message of Islam is, of who we are as people in front of God and in front each other that it's our belief that makes... It's our righteousness that makes us valuable in the eyes of God not anything else.",
      "Having said that, culture is a collective human experience and appreciating someone's culture is about appreciating them as a human being. It's not about celebrating one over the other and it never should be. And it's important that we do have those conversations. One of the things that we did after... The current racial awakening that we are now experiencing and the tragic killing of George Floyd,",
      "we're having these conversations, one of the things that I tried to do since the end of Ramadan which was in mid-May. We've had exclusively Black speakers every single week and I only had one repeat. And again it was trying to show my students just how wide the range is. You're in New York right? Yes. You got Chinese imams. I mean you have the whole smorgasbord just to remind you of imams there.",
      "you know i mean here in chicago we have us there's a little section of chinatown where i took a class down because i wanted to show them the um the the islamic the chinese writing for uh what is this something impure something and pure and so that they could see which ones were the chinese muslim restaurants but i think i worry",
      "No, I don't really worry. I'm glad to see women in chaplaincy. I am so glad I could jump out of this seat if I was jumping anymore. And it's because many of us in this society are very used to women in leadership positions and we're very shocked with Muslim world throw women under the bus behind the bus",
      "but middle way the bus. And no matter how bright, how innovative, how creative and how learned they actually were when our history is full of women scholars who have actually been hidden. So I had a bunch of people, well not a bunch",
      "I guess, terminal degree at least before I can think about becoming a chaplain. Because see what you all do, you all have the largest to pick and choose your audience. Chaplains in prison and hospitals and corporations don't have that luxury. You know, if my father died, it doesn't matter what I am and I need to see a chaplin, I'm coming. Right? But",
      "Where do they go? What's the ending degree? You can't become a chaplain with a high school diploma, right? No. And a lot of them are the MDivs, the seminaries, the institutions like that. I mean from what I've seen you have to have a bachelor's degree and the standards vary depending on the institution. Some look for masters in Islamic study, religious studies",
      "religious studies, Islamic studies, whatever. And some require it. So I mean there's difference but education chaplains are different in the sense that they look at different standards. It's a more intellectual environment so they do want to see more education. I think for in hospital work and prisons they do need chaplaincy training but not necessarily like you know academic masters type of thing. Listening audience",
      "listening audience i hope y'all got that now i want to turn a little bit to women one of my loving subjects i won't call it favorite is loving um i am excited",
      "of stuff that gets rolled out when we talk about things Islamic. As if women can't read, can't memorize, can, can and half of the men ain't qualified to do much. It reminds me of the prophetic narration when the prophet said take half your knowledge from Aisha. That is sort of a call for equal representation in religious authority right? Take your authority also from woman.",
      "Almost as if I don't understand how come. I think there's an unfortunate, I'm seeing a lot of women leave traditional Islam because of that. They see the misogyny. It's not hard to point out. But what? Women raise men. Yes. And the most shocking one to me every time there's a men's only panel when it's about women's rights and I'm like you couldn't find",
      "And I'm like, you couldn't find a single woman. Like just don't have the battle. What women have got to do is jump up and say, oh who are you? Bye. So a lot of this is sustained by pre-modern fic. So we actually have a problem in terms of Islamic thought which is sort of the engine behind this misogyny.",
      "as they start realizing that some of this fiqh is not sensible, they'll start adapting fiqhh to something that is sensible to their context. Last time I was in Egypt and I was trying to get it translated and published by a place here, there is an Arabic-to-English spy volume or it's a bibliography, Women in Islam. Have you seen it, Amina? I have not.",
      "I have not, but I've heard of other ones. Yeah, and I mean it's like those books are thick. Yes. So it looks like they're not there, but women want to promote them too. Go ahead.",
      "institutions started to become devastated through economically and culturally in different ways. Female scholarship was normal. The oldest running university in the world is the one in Morocco, it's opened by a woman Fatima Al-Fahriya. It's been around for 12 centuries. Exactly but you know what? You all have gotten me so excited that I forgot to take my break. So now we're going",
      "minute and we'll be back to have some more exciting conversation. Sounds good.",
      "And we're back. I've got so much good stuff here. Let me see. Let's see.",
      "to what we were studying, Islam or chaplaincies. Were any of the professors black or brown? What do you mean by Brown? So I went to Malaysia and so there were Malay- Brown. Yeah. There are Malay professors. Yes, I did have a Black professor",
      "have a black professor. There were two in that program, I had one of them. I mean, I've been to two different programs in Malaysia so... Or any other female? Yeah, so there was the white Russian lady. There was...I left the other program but trying to remember. I think there was also a female well,",
      "And I know you all are going to change that, Amina.",
      "was acknowledging her and Allah subhanahu wa ta'ala revealing an ayah, God revealing verses to affirm her that say that... And unfortunately some of the English translations of this verse is in Surah Al-Ahzab if anyone wants to look it up. But it's saying, say that the Muslims when they translate it, they say, say the Muslim men and the Muslim women and the believing men andthe believing women. The way that it actually should be translated is say the Muslims collective and the muslim woman where it's highlighting them",
      "highlighting them, not just equating them to the men. And it was again about restoring a balance and when people ask about I feel like you get this a lot of who wants to marry the feminist woman that is objecting to everything after her husband Abu Salimah passed away she married the Prophet peace be upon him himself so the answer of who want's to marry a feminist woman? Prophet Muhammad and anyone following in his footsteps",
      "And again, but having said that how many people when we talk about these women only talk about them as a function of just something so small and I'm sure we've all done this where you've attended something and someone's like oh your marriage is deficient until you have children. I'm like excuse me do you understand who you insulted? You insulted Aisha! Like shh!",
      "Somebody, not your husband, talked to you about your womb? This was in a public gathering that someone said this. And they didn't have to take you away in chains? Oh, I definitely objected and I'm really grateful for being able to have studied because my objection",
      "of, in this verse it says that you here we are talking about the marriage of Aisha to the Prophet peace be upon him and they didn't have children. You don't get to insult their marriage. How does somebody who is not your husband get to talk about your womb period without being flattened like a pancake? It's about seeing women as unidimensional instead of multidimessional. If any of the Sahabi were women",
      "where women existed today, they would be rejected by the Muslim community. And they would tell the Muslims community that you know where the sun don't shine. Exactly! SubhanAllah. Like honestly, we do have to be... There is so much inspiration in our early sources but yes, the tradition also has been very positive to woman. Sheikh Akram Nedawee wrote a book about the female scholars who had this side",
      "who had this sad for something and so we did have you know a rich tradition of female scholars but we also have to be critical of that tradition there were you know there were aspects in that tradition where women you know were not seen as authoritative why aren't there any woman imams for example anyone they weren't teachers yeah and they were but",
      "And I'm saying Imam in terms of like the head of a madhhab, not a prayer leader. There were actually female prayer leaders in Islamic history but it was a minority. But even within the Madhahib and I can't speak to the other Madhub, within the Hanafi tradition It was Imam Abu Hanifa's daughter who is a scholar in her own right that codified the entire discussion on menstruation Like in what world do we think men hung out and said let's discuss menstruation? They didn't",
      "Right. But do women only have to talk about female issues? Exactly. They don't. I agree. I want to talk Islamic finance and so many other things. Yeah, and I was told in the Muslim world that by some people not by the programs that I attended but by Shaykh that this is not appropriate for woman and that the brain of a woman after she has children becomes like",
      "because like that of a child. Did you throw something at him or ask him where was his mama? That she could raise the fool like that? I was also sensitive to the fact that I was an American and so I didn't want to impose my culture. No, no, I want women from those cultures to stand up for themselves. I do have to position myself. Remember my positionality and not be like that meddling American who",
      "I am a paddling American. Of course, I can have critical conversations but I wouldn't throw something. I understand what you're saying. Before we came on air, Aminal had let me know that she had written an article for Muslim Matters, I think it is and I would like for Padra and I to listen",
      "to a synopsis and then join you in discussion I really appreciate that the discussion I appreciate hopefully it goes well so there's the chapter in the Quran called Surah Al-Araf and part of the discussion is about a group of people that really didn't commit like they were the people that were sleeping that said oh yeah this discussion",
      "the story of Prophet Moses, Musa peace be upon him and Pharaoh. And there's the people that on the day of judgment decided with Pharaoh when things don't go well for them. And then there's people that sided with prophet Musa and they are taken to heaven. And those are the people who are kind of just stuck there. On the Araf that didn't commit, they didn't come into righteousness. They weren't on the side of pharaohs. They're not like hey let's go oppress",
      "like this is not our fight. Silence is oppression. Silence IS oppression and I think it's really important to have that conversation, and part of the reason we were having that discussion within my own community is the group of about 25% I don't know exactly the studies of the American Muslim population that is Black that would've looked like a George Floyd that already understand what it's like to be-to",
      "Now the other 75%, it's your job to protect those who are vulnerable. It's your jobs to fight against systems of oppression, it is your job To stand on the side of Prophet Musa This is in our holy book. This is a prophet I can't come like if I want to meet Musa peace be upon him in heaven Like I want hang out with him. I have a list of questions about them crossing through the Red Sea. I just think it's fascinating",
      "I want to make sure that we end up on the right side. We can't look at discussions of righteousness and oppression and say, not my fight. It is your fight. What does it mean?",
      "you know, you're trying to be diplomatic and which is a good thing. But sometimes standing up for social justice means you will rock the boat. And sometimes you doing that will create disunity. Right? And the prophet created so much division in his community for standing up or justice. Sometimes we think unity is what is most important at what cost though. And so it's a tricky balance. Yes, unity matters but at what costs",
      "And as chaplains, there's always this tension between social justice and community cohesion. And there's no right and wrong way. I mean it's just something that you have to engage with case by case but I hope that we understand the narrative of social justice. That was very well said. I can see the dilemma, but how do we for those who want to what can we say",
      "to urge them on the side of Musa? What can we do to urge out a neutral where they recognize that silence is oppression? I honestly would urge to be on the site of the Prophet Muhammad. Yes, Musa is incredible and we should draw on his ideas but the Prophet was successful. He was",
      "He was a social reformer and revolutionary, and he achieved success. He knew how to mobilize human beings to create unity at the same time striving for social justice, to enact change by grassroots also at the state level if you had that power. I mean his example is so much more it resonates so much with our context. And of course the principles of social justice that Musa sort of enacted are also relevant but the prophet",
      "The Prophet was a community person, a humanitarian. Those things are so much proper. I think his story is so much more powerful and not to pit them against each other. We can use both but let's remember the Prophet. Peace be upon him. And the Prophet, peace be upon Him, the reason that we have those discussions in the Qur'an is so that we can learn from them. In my view, I don't think it's about rocking the boat. I don t think the boat is upside down. I don't think the boats functioning correctly. If it's just who gets to hold on on the outside of the boat then we're inherently saying",
      "There's some people in our community that are not welcome, that aren't included. And that's not okay. It was Imam Suhaib Sultan to his credit at Princeton. I really appreciate him. He's a good friend. May Allah give him complete shifa, like complete healing from his illness. That he was talking about this. He said there's a minimalist view and there's maximalist view where I'm gonna try to come up with what is the one thing that is the least controversial?",
      "And we'll only do that. But what it does is, it limits so much of the beauty and the discussion and the creativity. Instead let's try to do the opposite where it's like, let's present everything. And let's all have discussions to make sure our boat is big enough to carry everyone. That it is actually inclusive of everyone. And if I'm standing on principle, that's what made our tradition what it is. Prophet Muhammad peace be upon him in...",
      "person in teaching people and in dealing with their oppressions. He taught you right. But our prophet had his flaws. We're not going to Jesus Christ, our prophet where he did no wrong. He walked on water. He was perfect. He did this and that and the other because that is not the human being presented to us in the Quran. I think we have to continue to be careful",
      "careful to not join Christians and to elevating a prophet to God's like status. He wasn't always the kindest because he turns away a poor blind man while he's seeking some people who are wealthier. And it wasn't being the kindness. Right, but his example afterwards,",
      "It was narrated that he never behaved unkindly to that person. In fact, he went over the top to make it work. Did God write that? No, I said after the incident. No, but what I'm saying is we still have... Of course, of course, I agree with you. I didn't come to Islam with a perfect prophet who had no flaws, always corrected us. I came because the prophet was human.",
      "was human and I could see myself along a path. For those who wanna make our prophet perfect, that's fine but in the same way that Christians have done it over centuries to Jesus and he winds up being God, I would caution people to watch it. Right? I agree with making sure that we... To not ever forget the humanity of the Prophet peace be upon him. There isn't a very unfortunate understanding",
      "where we talk about him like he was wearing a cape and he was a superhero, he was Superman. He felt pain when he... To the point that Professor Amina just made that when God corrected him, he took the correction. And him being human is the reason. But I think that helps. I mean, I understand what Hajra was saying but I also think that have you read this book?",
      "book by Kamran Kasha, Mother of the Believers. It's very familiar. Let me tell you, if you haven't read it yet, I taught it like eight times but I liked it because all my non-Muslim students jumped on it. It was the first down to earth everyday story they had heard out of the mouth of a Muslim. All Muslims are perfect.",
      "or this is perfect, all the other's perfect. And then when Muslims get undressed they say oh well it was those over there not me. I agree with you and sometimes we lose the wisdom of the Prophet himself because we can't see when he was behaving like a human yeah and then we put them into like this absolute form rigid form that we have to follow to the letter instead of looking at what is",
      "ethical objective behind how he acted, he was acting within context and then realized those same ethics in our contemporary context. It enables growth and dynamism just because the prophet wore certain clothes or... Tell me about it. But it manifests in different ways in our community and I think that the celebrity Imam culture is just another manifestation of that",
      "the imam that is being held as does no wrong. And I think it's actually another form of idolatry, unfortunately. It is. You're frozen in time. You can slip on over. Our last question for the evening. I gave a talk and one of the things I tried to do was I centered the talk around looking at the prophets in the Quran and their challenges, et cetera, et",
      "But we have gone from everyday life to the throes and, oh my God, the chaos of pandemic. With the worst medical advice on the planet. Then we looked up and in the middle of that, we were trying to make sure we had supplies. The state cities closed down the Sajid.",
      "down the Sajjad. People went into a tradition frenzy. It's like, I'm so used to performing Islam. I don't know what to do if I can't perform Islam so somebody else can see me. Oh my God! Then we went into Ramadan. And it's oh my God, people really can't see me perform and do this and then we went from there pandemic is still happening to oh my god they're going to close Hajj.",
      "Talk, speak to it. I mean luckily they did close Hajj and a lot of mosques so they did comply but more recently also there's been mosque that are reopening and because of these social distancing rules some of them have decided to ban Muslim women from attending the prayers and they use the logic that the men you know",
      "therefore the woman's right is secondary, which is flawed. I'm actually writing a paper. To sue them. Well, they were stopped by lawyers but I'm also writing a newspaper on the legal logic behind this sort of like false thinking and just trying to show that Muslim women first of all in the Quran it obligates all those who have faith to Friday prayer",
      "the hadith is contextual when it says Muslim women, you don't need to perform the prayer Friday prayer in congregation. That's contextual. It groups them with the sick and the traveler and these other people disabled people. Women back there with the infirm. Why would what? Why would you put women with the six? No, no, no because their context didn't allow them to perform a weekly public",
      "public work, right? If your society is functions where women are in the house most of the time or near their houses then it's just so difficult to go to the private part. My wonderful sister. What I'm saying is that it's based on context. Women can decide for themselves what is best",
      "what is best for them. And based on that, the obligation holds. So if you are capable of going to the mosque and making the Fajr prayer, it's obligatory on you. And I think to your point, it gave women the choice. It almost on some level, it trusted them for their own spiritual well-being to make that decision for themselves. And the discussion... And I don't think I've ever started a fight this big on my Facebook page before. But that was again about this thing",
      "about this thing where people were saying, oh it's not obligatory on women. It never was and still Prophet Muhammad peace be upon him told us you can't ban the female slaves of Allah from the house of Allah I still have a right to that You don't want to tell me I'll set this up in another conversation because I don't read it that way Never read it That way would not I'd be Buddhist if I had read it",
      "a congregational prayer be obligatory on me unless there was an exception. And this is again... I'm saying it is, but that there's an exception for circumstance. So the Hadith is circumstantial. The general is... Well, I don't follow Hadith, but what I'm",
      "women do not if they read it that way, they'd be Buddhist or something else. Okay, so my question to you is, Do you think all the sahabi went and perform a Friday prayer? All the whole the sahabit? Oh, I don't know. That was so that's not even in my sphere thinking and I don' care. Right So what I'm saying is that that no, it's just like telling a woman she can't pray if she's on her menstrual cycle was supposed",
      "suppose she dies and she's on a minstrel because somebody said she can't pray. She's supposed to die without prayer? So how I view it is that it creates flexibility. No, I'm leaving it open to you. I'm just saying since this is a multicultural conversation, this culture says no to that. Which culture? The mostly American African",
      "and brown culture say no to that. So it's no to... The Quran says what it says. I think if you're menstruating... I think the discussion on menstruation, when I'm menstruating my body is physically worshipping God just in a different way. Immigrant understandings have so harmed the American African Black",
      "Black, white Native American community that there has to be an understanding of what's cultural understanding because even Arabs read the Arabic with a cultural understanding. Right? Yeah exactly and the Hadith should be seen as contextual which is what I was trying to get at No I'm saying for you they may be No contextual in the sense that it is one cultural",
      "one cultural realization of that. But we can still see that as an option because many South Asians, you know, they don't go to Friday prayer because I mean, that's a whole nother. Ladies, it has been as you and I'm going to hound you all because you're the only two Muslim. No, I know three Muslims. No four female Muslim chaplains. The audience deserves to hear you.",
      "you. I will keep arguing with you because you're the only ones I know and I'm having a ball and it'll move my day, but you all have been wonderful. Thank you again. Please say that you will come back if the producer says you are no. And you won't say I'm tired of Amina. I've had enough. But no, because Never get tired of you, Professor. For the young women to see skilled",
      "skilled, learned women who are articulate. Just go after it. This has been a critical talk with Professor Aminah Aldean and I hope to see you tomorrow night. Don't go nowhere."
    ]
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    "text": [
      "Political Sciences, who is Professor Scott Hibbard, who an associate professor and the chair of the Department of Political Science at the University. And I wanna just say for those of you",
      "listened to previous shows. He teaches courses on American foreign policy, Middle East politics, international relations, religion and politics, on presidential elections. He received his PhD from Johns Hopkins and has advanced degrees from the London School of Economics and Political Science at Georgetown University. I am going to advise those of you who want",
      "to know more about Professor Hibbert, to go on DePaul University's webpage. All of his texts and things are there. And because we have so much to cover tonight, I'm going to invite him in. Okay. Great to see you. Thanks for having me on again, Aminah. And you know me and my hundred questions. We have a kind of wild and flying by the ear agenda tonight.",
      "tonight and so many things to cover. What I want to cover was actually in the international news before we go to the more mainstream national story of the day. I turned on the TV the other day, and I saw riot gear for a month ago, and it probably was, but in a different era. Men running down with these shit policemen",
      "with these shields and stuff, and tear glass. And then they tell me it's Belarus. And I'm sitting back and I have to think where the hell is Belarus? That's the country that's next to Poland and not as far east as the Soviet Union. Out of some other countries I can't pronounce. So what is going on in Belarus? In many respects Belarus is the last dictatorship",
      "And they had elections where the President Alexander Lutsenko was reelected for the sixth time. How do you get re-elected? So going back to kind of my background, this is just like Hazem Mubarak running for election. They're stage managed. The opposition gets arrested in prison so they're not actually out campaigning.",
      "I guess there were a handful of opposition candidates that did want to put their name forward. Because they do have, you know this is the post Soviet era so there is an independent civil society but you still have the levers of government if you will controlled by the central state and controlled by The Party which is Litvinshchek's party. And so he did his one of these main individuals who could've garnered support was",
      "was a relatively famous blogger and journalist, and he was put in prison. But his wife decided to run in his stead, and she was allowed to campaign. And her name was Svetlana, and I'll not get the name right, but it's Tikhna Saskia. But she captured the imagination of people on the street, and this is kind of the interesting part of it. If it's a dictatorship, why are they going through the facade of elections?",
      "elections. And that kind of shows you where, you know, where the world is, that there is a element of democratic legitimacy that comes along with elections. So even dictatorships like those in Belarus or Egypt or Russia, they need that facade of popularity or facade of legitimacy so they will run elections. They will control them. They'll control media,",
      "they will run the elections. Now, what was interesting about this time is it really highlighted the fact that the government is unstable. There's a financial crisis or an economic crisis going on. They've mismanaged the pandemic. People are very much opposed to the regime and I'm sure if they actually looked at the results of the voting, they would have realized they lost massively but of course since they were doing the counting, they won by 80%.",
      "80% so Yeah, but what's interesting about the end kind of closed us out. What's interesting? About this story is You know the opposition candidate who was running against? Lichtenchenko was forced to flee the country or basically told to leave and as I understand they made death threats against her children and Yeah, yeah and This is a brutal Stalinist style dictatorship",
      "I mean, and so what's happened is even though she was forced to leave you have this large population that is adamantly opposed the government. And now they saw through what happened and now they're out in the streets protesting the government and facing off against the riot police in the street. And then that's kind of the context but the theme of tonight's show as we'll talk about",
      "is you have certain kind of dynamics going on. You have an authoritarian government who's using the apparatus of the state not to provide services to the population, but to enrich themselves and so you basically count a criminal mafia at the top and the population has really had it and so they're in the streets. So what's that? Almost like here.",
      "What is, you know, I looked in there. The next news story was Lebanon and some, I don't know, deposit of what was it? Ammonium nitrate? Ambonium nitrite. Yeah. How do you have that much ammonium nitride near a residential area? Yeah. So it's I mean, it's a tragic story on any number of levels. And, you",
      "forever. But the first question about the ammonium nitrate is it was seized in, or there was a ship that moored in the port of Beirut. It didn't have proper licensing. It was not actually seaworthy. It",
      "explosives. It was smuggling it from one place to another and like a lot of ports there's a lot criminal elements that are engaged in the management of the port because there is money to be made in smuggling, right? And for one reason or another the Port Authority seized the cargo and stored it because I guess the ship was getting ready to sink. This happened like 2013 so",
      "in the last, what? Seven years it's been sitting there. Right and no one has really known what to do with it. And their report authorities that keep writing to the federal government or national governments saying, we'll do this is real danger. No one ever did anything with it and through a series at least what's been reported on is through a serious of accidents fire was started and it set off the ammonium nitrate but the tragedy is it's just devastated",
      "just devastated the port and an area about five square miles in the heart of Beirut, which is just shocking. And not only did I think what number it's exactly right now like 165 or 150 people are killed 5,000 injured but supposedly there's 300,000 people homeless.",
      "but Lebanon for at least decades is touted as having this fantastic government, right? So this is kind of the tragedy of Lebanon. Even before this happened you had a compromise, constitutional compromise that helped bring an end to the civil war in the 1990s and",
      "was a power sharing arrangement that allocated different parts of the government and control to different sects, and different groups. They had a stake in the Civil War, they have a stake you know, in the governing of the country. And on one hand it was meant to be a sectarian compromise which if you get into peace studies there is a way in which you can create constitutional mechanisms",
      "harmony or at least some kind of mechanism of modus vivendi within multi-ethnic, multireligious societies. And this was an example of that but over the last 20 years what it's really devolved to is a handful of mafias warning different parts of the economy and different parts",
      "to the population, whether that's making sure the electricity runs or the water runs or they're using those positions as patronage jobs for their clan. And so they are enriching themselves at the expense of the population and the infrastructure is crumbling. Garbage doesn't get picked up issues don't get taken care of. And this moment ammonium nitrate which should have been removed seven years ago has",
      "ago has been sitting languishing in some warehouse you know at the you know in the port of beirut um and so you had this fun you had a economic crisis which was only exacerbated by the pandemic you had fiscal crisis which is all very much intertwined and you've had you know this kind of stagnation um and then then then you have on top of that the explosion the other day",
      "Hello? Something happened and I don't know where you went, but you stopped off at troubling events. And you were talking about these little kind of mafias. So is globalization a conglomeration of little mafios? Well, that's definitely part of it. There is what people always refer to as",
      "people always refer to as the dark side of globalization that um you know you have basically from the 1990s onward increasing interconnectedness of states and societies on a global level increased trade and what have you and you know insofar as it's well regulated and you things are above board this is great people are creating jobs and what-have-you but uh there's also a lot of",
      "smuggling drugs, human trafficking, what have you and also money laundering. And the concern has always been that there's always gonna be some degree of criminality within any kind of body politic and on a global level, there's going to be some international organized crime but the question is at what point does it become a predominant influence?",
      "at certain countries, you kind of wonder whether who's really running the show. I mean is it the drug mafias behind the... Are they the ones with real powers behind the throne? And then you look at places like North Korea which has historically been involved in counterfeiting and illegal sale of missile parts and things like that",
      "And, you know, there's a high degree of illegality going on. A lot of this is tied up with security services so, you now, 90% of the world's heroin is produced or at least the opium for the heroin is produce in Afghanistan and people assume that a lot of that is facilitated or the transshipment of that",
      "you know any kind of major um you know, any kind a major militia. You know they frequently are involved in drug trafficking or um or Russia, you know human trafficking is a vice I mean whether it's sex trafficking uh drugs yeah stealing people from Peter to do some with Paul or making weapons everything is advice nothing",
      "And this kind of gets back to my larger issue that I work on. Because I worked in government for many years, and I really do firmly believe that well-run governments that respect the rule of law, that's... Where is it? Where is that? Minnesota. I don't know. But there are moments in time where we've had clean government",
      "and government that is restrained. And this kind of gets back to the conversation that you and I were having earlier today about this notion of illiberal democracy, that we talk about democracy as this great thing, as if you hold elections everything's gonna be fine. But you have elections in Egypt, you have election in Russia and Belarus, and they're fabricated.",
      "racist and fascist come to power. And it does kind of raise this question about, well what good are elections? And the real issue is that when we talk about democracy, when we talked about it as a good thing that needs to be promoted here within the United States, but really talking liberal democratic constitutionalism. So let me say-",
      "What we're really talking about is liberal democratic constitutionalism. The article I sent you earlier, which we could make available on the website, is written by Fareed Zakaria back in the early 1990s. It talks about this rise of illiberal democracy and he basically makes this argument. And the idea is that what's really good about democratic government is restraint, laws, the rule of law.",
      "The rule of law. Do you mean restraint of the government? Yes. Interfering in the affairs of people? Yes, right. Or in exercising power over the people? Both and one can think about it this way that at the end of the day, you want governments to be effective but you also wanted to be accountable. Okay. So you want government to provide order but you don't want the government",
      "You want the government to regulate the economy, but you don't want them muscling in on somebody's economic livelihood. And this is really where what makes a government effective is the rule of law. And many of us who teach government have just been so concerned about the Trump administration",
      "administration because a lot of the both formal rules that have historically restrained government as well as the norms, kind of the cultural norms of what's accepted behavior, have been so frequently violated by the current president. And again not to belabor this but when you start looking around at these different countries, what really defines all of them is that the government or the government is not accountable",
      "accountable to the governed. And that's really, that's the important point. When you say Trump is violating rules they're rules not statutes right? There's some kind of tacit agreement that we are going to behave in this way and if you violate it then you just violated and the rest of us get to say oh my God he did",
      "So, first of all, I say all the above. Some of it is statutes. If you actually read the Mueller report or the Mueller investigation, it's clear that President Trump obstructed the investigation. That is a violation of law. Okay. But because of the rules we have in this country and the Justice Department,",
      "indict a sitting president. It's up to- Who said that? Who made that up? Somebody sitting there was messing up? Yeah, so that's actually a standard practice within the Department of Justice. And again, so these are also their policies. Some are laws, some are policies, some kind of norms. So like the norms are more of you wouldn't say certain things about certain people or you wouldn' impugn",
      "the patriotism of a sitting president while he's overseas. Well, people did that to Barack Obama all the time and this is where we talk about the coarsening of the American political discourse that in years gone by, you know, the opposition was the loyal opposition like we may have our disagreements but we're gonna... We agree to a set of rules that we will all live by",
      "And because we know that at some point in time, we'll be in the opposition and sometimes we'll power. And so we agree to abide by the same rules because we notice the rules will apply to us in the future in the same way they applied to our opponent right now. And there's a certain again kind of cultural, a certain culture of live and let live or a culture of civility, I should phrase it that way. That provides kind of the Greece",
      "It's the Greece by which, you know, the system operates. And what you're really kind of seeing- What is illiberal? So, okay. So when we talk about liberal, we're basically talking about issues of, you now, liberalism, freedom and individual freedom, respect for individual rights, constitutional law. And this goes back to kind of our earlier point. You can have democracy that's very illiberal",
      "You can have democracy that's not- That doesn't make sense. How do you have a democracy that is illiberal? Yeah, so let me unpack this for a little bit. The assumption is that if people are engaging in elections, they generally buy the idea that there ought to be a rule of law, that individuals ought to have rights and what have you. We're not looking",
      "elected in order to start taking away other people's rights. There are political parties, for example I'm thinking of Serbia back in the day with Slobodan Milosevic when he was in power. He ran on a very populist agenda but it was a right-wing populism and it was all about denigrating Muslims and Catholics, Croatians and Bosnians",
      "behind his vote. Now he was democratically elected and one could argue as a Democrat, I mean small D Democrat but he certainly wasn't liberal. And actually his message was very illiberal in that what he was promising him was to kick out all the Muslims and take control of the properties that they lived in. And from his perspective, he was writing a historical wrong",
      "1989 and the wars with the Ottoman Empire, etc., etc. But that's an instance where you have people getting elected democratically on a very illiberal or right-wing platform. And we saw the same thing happen in Hungary earlier this year and Brazil earlier this years. So one of things we are going to talk about is one of the fascinating issues within Europe",
      "really my area of expertise. But a lot of the kind of anti-immigrant sentiment that was generated by, you know, outflux of Syrians in particular but also Iraqis and Afghanis from the different war zones all fleeing into Europe, that fed into this right wing, you",
      "get elected, helped elect a number of right wing parties that were democratically elected but very illiberal in their vision of society. So in Lebanon we have people from Syria and other places running to Lebanon for safety. Yeah.",
      "but in some ways, in such a tiny country overburdening the system there. Yeah. I haven't read a lot about that, but that's a really important point because if you think about Syrian civil war, there are 22 million Syrians and I think half of them or about 11 million have been displaced and six of them outside of the country,",
      "literally half of them, like 3 million ended up in Lebanon. And I don't know what the population of Lebanon is but... Almost a population of Lebanese. The Germans were freaking out about 100,000 refugees. Yeah everybody that was against Assad Oh I don' t know what that noise is. Everybody that was",
      "So if they went to Syria, they're stuck in Syria where they are not Syrian. I mean, Lebanese citizens and therefore are not eligible to practice professions and this, that, and the other have to tap four steps down and God help the people who had no skills. Yeah. And this is, you know, I mean this is just again one of those it's a tragedy that we watched",
      "that we watched unfold in slow motion. And it's still going on, even though it's dropped off the front pages of the newspapers. There are still huge amounts of displacement. There're still massive refugee camps in Jordan and Turkey and Lebanon. Right. And for many people their lives are just put on hold and it's not clear where they're... what their future holds. This is one of those moments in time",
      "where you really need global leadership to stand up and say, hey this is not just a regional problem. It's not just the Syrian problems. I'm just love nice probably Jordanian from this is really a national world global problem. And what do you do? We've been in the house kind of since March. What will we do if our lives were put on hold",
      "will put on hold with no way to think about a future. Yeah, and you know we're fortunate in that we actually have homes to be quarantined in. I know! I was at the Za'atari refugee camp in Jordan a few years back and it was just shocking because it's just so big. I mean it would have like 100 000 people and it's a small town",
      "small town. And, you know, I mean they were no longer in tents. They were now actually in structures but way too overcrowded not enough facilities. There's a program to help educate the kids but it's tough. And talk about there's a generation coming of age in that environment. But again going back to our earlier point this is where like in Europe and even",
      "Europe and even in the U.S., you know, you have right-wing populists who will fan the flame. Okay, yes, okay. So you're basically right-winger populist people who are playing to the masses. And to be clear, I try to differentiate between right-",
      "So if you're running a campaign, and I'll use Bernie Sanders as an example. He's basically making a class-based argument that the Wall Street types are plundering the wealth of this country and the working man is getting the shaft. And it's actually fairly accurate argument but the point",
      "populist base. He's making a left-wing argument based on class and class divisions within society as opposed to race or ethnicity or religion, and when you look at Modi in India he's a right wing populist in that he's trying to appeal his base but he's not making a class-based",
      "you know, kind of nationalist argument about who's a good Hindu or who's the Indian. You know upper class or well Hindu and who's not a good, you know Indian and so you have this, you're either trying to break up the society or try mobilize people on class lines or try to mobilize people along race religion or ethnicity and kind of going back to you know This country was so fascinating about this moment in time",
      "this moment in time is, you know, Trump as basically a right wing populist very much on the long lines of Modi or somebody like that where he's using his demonizing and other whether that's African-Americans or Hispanics or Mexicans or immigrants or Syrians or Muslims. And he tries it when he's always identifying some kind of other",
      "which he sees as kind of the white working class. And that worked well for him in the last election, what's interesting about again this moment in time is the Republican party as a larger group of people many of them are horrified at what's going on, many of then are leaving the party but many of also realize that this is a very short term strategy because you can invoke that",
      "And that might get you a certain amount of votes. But at the end of the day, there's a big pool of people out here and the country is really rapidly changing. You may win another election or two but in the long run just the numbers aren't in your favor. Okay we're going to take a break here for about a minute and come back and deal with our favorite country Britain and our other favorite country called the United States.",
      "in the United States. Be back in a moment.",
      "You know, way back when we fought a war to dump Britain.",
      "to dump Britain or at least dump Britain's hold over us. In the centuries since then, we have in many ways solidified our association. I'll call it an association when Britain went... I mean well not Britain but when all of Europe went into something called European Union people like me worry",
      "Are my francs gonna be worth anything anymore? And I collect coins from everywhere to use, to get a paper or this and the other read anyway. But now with Britain leaving, and I guess it took somebody with her and he left somebody behind. And the European Union seemingly in all kinds of chaos",
      "with an economic recession. I don't believe it's just Britain, an economic recessions what's going on? Because what does that say for all of these other connections they've made and holdings they have in the Muslim world? Yeah. So again this is not really necessarily my turf but I spent a lot of time in Europe and I... It's funny I was working",
      "I did a graduate degree in London many years ago, and I spent some time working as a research assistant to a member of parliament right at the time when they were debating the EU. And it was really fascinating kind of moment in time because what was happening was Europe coming out of World War II recognized that there was a lot of problems with being individual states trying to compete",
      "states so you've Russia the US China well China was so you know somewhat underdeveloped back then but you know how does a England shorn of its colonies compete? How does it Germany, you know, shorn...well it lost its colonies many years ago but how does France shorn up its colonies without his colonies compete in a global environment particularly coming out of World War II where your economies are devastated. What happened",
      "a you know kind of going back to our liberalism narrative there was a liberal notion that the best way that you know that we can all develop together is by you know binding our societies and economies together. And that began with the formation of the trade in coal union where you know, that kind of create you know rebuilt all these society or rebuild these core economic activities in France and Germany in particular but bound them together so that",
      "so that economies were already very much intertwined, just coming right out of World War II. And that continued to develop and went from like the Coal and Trade Union to the European Common Market to the PEC, European Economic Community. And it finally got to a point where they formed a political structure to go along with the economic structure. And quite frankly, it comes back to this idea that they're stronger together than they are separately.",
      "if each individual had to compete with Russia, they'd be toast. But if they have a combined economy and in a combined policy and shared vision, you know, they're going to be that much more powerful operating the international community. And that was, and that vision really held true all the way through World War II or through the end of the Cold War. And it really kind of took it to the next level in the post-Cold War period in the era of globalization",
      "Now, one of the challenges and this goes back to your comment about enjoying the franc and the lira and you know pound is that once we once they've unified politically there's always question about and they have a common market and highly integrated economic structure. Do they also have a currency? And some time they did go on the euro and that seemed like a great idea",
      "but it wasn't because if you're going to have a common currency, you need to have the common monetary policy. In order to have economic and monetary policies, you really need to be able to have fiscal policy which means how much government is spending tax and spend. Each individual state does not want to give up control over its budget, but they want the benefits of the shared",
      "shared currency and the shared economic order. And so in some respects, the problem with the EU is it was only like one foot in, one foot out. It wasn't a complete union. They didn't go that extra step. When 2008 financial collapse happened, that translated into a sovereign debt crisis which is more detailed than we want to get into but the point is that it was at that moment that you had this economic crisis",
      "about how to deal with it, you know coming from Germany which had all the banks at one vision. People in Greece which had a lot of debt and different vision. I was in Greece I think in 2013 when there were protests in the streets and what they're protesting is not so much the government but they are protesting the German bankers. And those are kind of some of the underlying issues",
      "still in my opinion you know at the end of the day europe is still you know the underlying dynamics are haven't changed you're still going to be stronger together than you are separate and this is why brexit makes no sense in my mind it just makes no i mean i understand the politics of it yeah that's why it happened and the way i look at it is some people like um",
      "Boris Johnson was kind of pandering to this right wing base. But the other was not necessarily an indigenous other, it was the French and the Germans and the Europeans telling us what to do. And there are a lot of people who lived in Northern England and who actually should have made her total laborer their labor supporters but they voted for Boris Johnson",
      "They voted for Brexit. You know, it sounds much like an English version of some understandings, mine being totally naive, of federalism. We have states which want to don't want to most of the time because they want to enjoy the benefits of co-hearing because then they can get federal this that and the other but then it's like well only",
      "state no in my state we're not going to wear any masks you know well in my statement whoa so what happens to things like the law of commerce which enables us to move between stage problem is i did pay attention during this part and of course uh to move",
      "put you in jail. Yeah, so that is the crux of the matter which you just got at this idea of federalism and quite frankly these are human issues I mean it's a challenge in our society as well as in your society who actually has control? Are you going to delegate authority or decision-making power to Washington",
      "in Springfield or do you? And invariably, people prefer to have greater control. People want to have control of their own lives. So at least in this society, historically what we've done is we kind of differentiated different tasks if you will and certain areas of responsibility. And so coordinating economic policy is really done at the federal level and coordinating defense policy and foreign affairs is really",
      "Whereas, you know states are kind of manage their regulate their insurance industry and regulate X Y & Z. And they have different policies regarding environmental standards although there's also federal environmental standards but there are certain things that localities do Chicago has certain policies on part in the currency. So what happens at the local level really is kind",
      "local and there's under local control, and stuff that really affects the larger community or the national community is really regulated at the national level. Now what's been interesting in the last 20 years, or at least since the 1990s, as you now have this international dynamic, international banks, international trade, international commerce of various sorts but you don't have a robust regulatory structure",
      "structure for that. I mean, you've got the World Trade Organization which is kind of set up in some respects to provide the rules of the road, mediate disputes but there's no real regulatory structure for banking and so it's really still up to individual states to regulate their own banks and what happened is now you have all this offshore banking",
      "whatever, Panama. And now you've got illegal activity going on money laundering, whatever tax and there's just no regulatory structure to kind of deal with that. This is where I'm kind of tying the two conversations together but this is one of the reasons why people did vote for Brexit in the UK and actually I have a friend who voted for Brexit.",
      "But from his perspective, the globalization has not served his community well. They've seen a lot of loss of jobs, a lot manufacturing jobs that have gone overseas. In the same way they have up in Michigan and Illinois and Wisconsin and Ohio. And people know what their once was if you ever go to Lancaster used to be very, very...",
      "manufacturing base and yeah it's not there anymore because people have either lacked in transference of skills right or brought those skills up to snuff yeah or you can also look at another side of it that a lot of both federal policy in england as well as the uk is really catered",
      "So a lot of policy is really designed to help Wall Street. Right, everywhere, no matter what you call the street. But I want to stop this conversation because I want go to our wonderful election and I'm trying to decide if illiberal democracy is populism left versus right or",
      "if i don't know okay okay no this is a great question um i mean i totally know you i see where you're going with this so this actually again why i mean look i mean I find all of this stuff fascinating whether it's your you know there's you or brexit or i you know i'm a political junkie this is what i get paid to do i love this stuff",
      "People always talk about this election is most important in American history. And I kind of hate to say that, but this one really is. But it's fascinating because you're really getting a stark choice. In many respects, Donald Trump is a classic illiberal Democrat, small d-democrat. He wants to be Alexander Lutsenko.",
      "and I think that you know, we talk about these as mafia runs countries whether it's Tunisia under Ben Ali or Mubarak era or Lutsenko or Russia. But in some respects Trump really does have his background in New York and if all the reporting is correct he has ties with both Italian Mafia",
      "And I think that's kind of his mentality is that, you know, politics is smash mouth. It's just the will of the stronger and there's this, you do whatever it takes to win and you don't play by the rules consciously. But then you look at the other side of the coin and there is Biden and the Biden-Harris ticket",
      "kind of the Obama-Biden era, but they're a throwback to an earlier era where it's like no there are rules in the game and we all need not just protect the rules. We need to protect the institutions because this game is large. How can you even do that when he has made his claim to fame to demolish so many institutions but the roads to the institutions?",
      "Yeah. So this is where you, I mean, this is the issue. This is the problem. My fear is there's going to be an ugly election. It's going",
      "describing Biden as a godless man who's going to destroy the, you know. How would he know? He owns the Bible upside down. How does he know?! So this is just kind of foreshadowing of what's gonna come and particularly because Trump was doing so poorly in the polls that as we get closer to the election and stakes get higher I think he's gonna become more desperate. And I really kind of fear",
      "really kind of fear for, you know what's going to happen particularly, you Know the as you know that the current story or one of the stories have been covered in recent news cycles is the effort to suppress the postal service. You know, yeah, I'll try and put in charge a well, Yeah, basically if um, you kno if campaign contributor with no background in anything related to postal delivery but the whole point is he's,",
      "you know, the postal service and consciously slow down postal delivery. And one could only assume that this, you know the arguments made while we're trying to make it more efficient but I'm looking at this and I've seen, I've been in politics. I know dirty tricks when I see them. This is another way of suppressing vote. And so it's going to be an ugly campaign. But again for me there really is like two different choices",
      "choices? Are we going to go back to a rules-based order where, you know, we respect the institutions, we strengthen the institutions. Government is accountable to the population. We all not just abide by the rule of law but embrace the rule or law. Or are we going back to this kind of mafioso mentality of government is just the will of",
      "ourselves and enrich our friends and enrich",
      "taking up space and air over issues that didn't matter. Tell me how that works today? Well, so I think there's kind of two different sets of issues. One is personal and one's policy. If you look at the personal issue, I see this to Biden's credit that he took a former critic and brought her into the fold.",
      "a third dimension too there's just politics like i hate to say it this is what happens on in primary season um you know if you're you know, if you are out there on the stage with nine people I mean how do you get attention? Okay so you got to be the you know you got be outspoken and you know Senator Harris certainly was but then there's policy side. And I think that on one hand Biden has obviously forgiven her but I think the other side of it is a policy side that they're actually fairly close from a policy perspective",
      "you know perspective and uh and i think that she's probably a better fit with his policies than somebody like bernie sanders or elizabeth warren um so so there's there's a certain commonality and i i think also when you look at her i mean she's sharp i mean",
      "not only be able to kind of help him get elected, but I think she'll be a real asset when she comes into the job and she will be very much of a full partner in a way that Biden was a full with Obama. And then you know, that's important. That's really important. And he just talking about college or neighbor of mine the other day because we were talking about this and he's a journalist here in Chicago and he was just kinda saying God, I'm just so tired of amateur hour",
      "amateur hour. Just pick somebody who can govern, who's done something. Right, right. I think that will resonate with the American population. Well, I think what we'll do since you're our resident political contest is from here until November devote a little bit of your time to analyzing what we see and however it is they have debates",
      "how we can try to help the public, our listeners at least figure out what is happening here. What did happen there without waiting for the pundits who are on TV to tell us what happened because usually that's what they're doing is seeing us one way or the other it's like I didn't see what I just saw kind of thing so we will do that and our hour well our 55 minutes",
      "minutes or 15 minutes is up. And as usual, so much to cover and I will see you next time in a few weeks to pick your mind and brain some more and all those things that you keep talking about are not in your wheelhouse. Put them in your warehouse because they're not on mine either and Critical Talk is a program from Muslim Network TV which is a",
      "And I hope that you tomorrow evening and of course always with Professor Scott Hibbert. Thank you. All right, thank you."
    ]
  },
  {
    "file": "amina_mccloud/Critical Talk with Prof_ Dr_ Aminah Al-Deen_0delubEUh0g&pp=ygUVQW1pbmFoIE1jQ2xvdWQgIGlzbGFt_1742895775.opus",
    "text": [
      "Good evening. This is Critical Talk with Professor Aminah Aldean. Please excuse my bad voice. I am happy to be interviewing, talking with, discussing with newer kids. I was an old school watcher of what was it called? The six veggie tails. Right.",
      "Right, VeggieTales. And after about 20 episodes they let us know that they were a Christian group. Allahu Akbar. And little things start after that to slip in so then I had to turn it off but nevertheless now I discovered more kids and all my short grandkids are involved. Alhamdulillah. I mean Asher",
      "Amin Asfar, tell us about yourself. Well, thank you so much for having me, Professor Amina. You know, when I was a kid growing up in Maple Grove, Minnesota, I used to love playing baseball. My mom, she'd come and she'd sit in the stands and she would cheer. But growing up Minneapolis, Minnesota or Maple Grove which is a suburb where there weren't very many Muslims or very much diversity",
      "friends would start to tease my mom. They made fun of my mom because of her hijab, her headscarf and look when I was 13 years old and I think like many 13 year olds in middle school, my goal was to fit it. And it was very difficult so I'm not proud of this but the reality was I began telling my mom to pick me up 15 minutes after my baseball games were finished because I didn't want anyone to see my mom, I didn'y want anyone",
      "years later, I remember when my sister Shireen had her first. This was about nine years ago. Now at that time Professor Amina there was a masjid that was being built in New York City it's called the Ground Zero Masjid and so much uproar and I thought to myself I don't want my niece to grow up not",
      "in her own skin and so that put us on a path to develop newer kids and alhamdulillah today um you know we have a team of you know 15 educators creatives researchers who are putting together this work and um you now we pray that allah puts baraka in it um and um it has been a labor",
      "to do with children's anything. I used to be, it's called mergers and acquisitions. So I used of like buying and selling companies and things like that. So the way the story goes, my brother, my older brother, Muhammad, he was at Harvard. He was at Howard University as a part of his MBA program. And in his MBA programme, what they ask you to do is they ask",
      "because we're passionate about it. And alhamdulillah, out of like a hundred different entries in their competition, they said that our idea was the best idea. So they gave us initial 5,000 bucks to get started as an award-winning thing. And you know, alhamdullilah with the support of my wife and the support",
      "Alhamdulillah, our work is now a reality. And so we offer a number of tools for families. Our primary tool is it's called an Akhlaq Building Program which is designed to help Muslim children between the ages of four and nine build not just confidence in their identity but also a genuine love for Allah Subhanahu wa ta'ala and the Quran.",
      "So why is it important for Muslim children to have these resources? You know, I honestly don't know. No, I'm kidding. Of course, of course, I have a perspective on this. So look, so what I would share with you is the following, right? We actually took a very academic approach towards solving this problem because the issue that I had, right, when I talked about my issue with baseball, that's when I was 13 years old, right. When we think about like an identity crisis. Yeah.",
      "crisis. A seven-year-old or a six-year old isn't bleaching their hair blonde and calling themselves Mo instead of Muhammad. That doesn't happen at a young age, that happens in perhaps middle school or high school or college or later on but what we know is that by the time a child is nine years old, a significant part of their lifelong identity has been established so the metaphor",
      "talks about this in the Quran too, and Sir Ibrahim. You know, if a tree has strong roots, right? That tree is really not going to be going anywhere and inshallah it'll bear good fruit. But if those roots are weak, well then, you know we hope and pray that they'll be able to survive a storm. And so for us, the focus on early childhood, right, is where we get the highest return on investment. If we as parents, as we as educators,",
      "build a strong foundation in faith, inshallah our belief is that it will pay off in dividends as those children grow up and become parts of our community. Well we know that most in the U.S., when kids go to public school there's evening and weekend religious school but with",
      "But with newer kids, they have the opportunity to do every evening. For kids who are not yet school ready, they can go. Yeah. And I mean look so here's what I would add right? What I would is two things. Number one is our goal is not any way shape or form to replace schooling or weekend Islamic school anything like that. Like Allahu Akbar there's a very important role",
      "important role that these institutions play within our community. And by the way, you know what the research shows is that, um, you",
      "to be a service to them. But what I would share is this, anytime you know, I think about my religious education, I thing about cough syrup because I feel like it was like going to Sunday school or reading a book about Islam. It was like medicine. It's something that I needed",
      "said, look, you need to read this. You need to do this is what you got to do, right? And this is sometimes our connotation with school and our goal from the outset was to say, look if that is the reason why kids are picking up our books then we have not been successful. We need to develop something that is genuinely kid friendly that when a boy or girl is going to sleep at night and is deciding which book they want to read before",
      "they genuinely enjoy it and it's fun. And so that's what we attempt to do. And even with our online programs, especially in a world now where gosh, everything is virtual and everything is distance learning, you know, with the class that we're doing right now, we're around the advice that Luqman, may Allah be pleased with him, provides feedback to his son as detailed in the Quran. Our goal is not for children to be like, oh,",
      "to be like, oh no. This is what I got to do. It's Thursday. No, we want kids to be looking forward to it. Let me hopefully let me see if I can share my screen. I want to show just a little bit, if you don't mind. Please, please do. Oh, I get a kick out of this. You would not believe",
      "Oh my goodness. The scariest trip I ever took was to San Antonio. Get ready, people. When I was 26 years old, my mom came to me and issued me an order. I said, Mom, what's that? She said, Amin, I need grandchildren. I'm not even married. Why don't you fix that?",
      "that. So when I was 26 years old, with my mom's help, I was introduced to a little lady named Sana. She happened to live in San Antonio. Now, I didn't visit Sana right away. I started by writing letters. I would take out a piece of paper and grab a pen and write a letter like, Dear Sana, it is a pleasure",
      "My name is Amin. My favorite color is blue. I love the Minnesota Vikings and lasagna. Thanks, Amin! P.S., on hot days sometimes I look up at the sun and I'm like, Sun! Ahhhh! And when I do that, I remember your name, Sana. That was a joke.",
      "I have also enclosed my resume for your father. This is hilarious. Sana and I wrote letters that way we could get to know each other, but a time came when I came to the conclusion that Sana was the person I wanted to get married to. Why? Because she was honest because she was trustworthy because she humble because she generous because she had a knack for writing children's books because she loved cooking lasagna because she love the Minnesota Vikings",
      "Minnesota Vikings. I mean, I should stop. My mom and dad said, Amin, it's time for you to meet Senna's parents. They lived in San Antonio. I remember going on the flight, getting ready to go and meet her parents. I thought to myself, oh man,",
      "Oh man, I really hope that they want me as a son. So I remember being on that airplane on my way from Minnesota to San Antonio thinking to myself, wow, well, I hope my shirt is good. Oh wow, I-I hope they don't serve burritos because I have the tendency to spill burritos on my shirt. Oh, I... I hope I smell good and I wore enough perfume! And when I finally landed in San Antonio",
      "on the doorbell. I remember clicking on, putting my finger on the doorknob and when I put my finger it went ding dong! And I met, I met Sanaa and her mom and her dad and the rest as they say is history. Now I know what you're thinking, you're",
      "marrying this son of what ended up happening to her? And the answer is yes, I did end up marrying her and she was amazing. And I'm still married to her today. And by the way, I thought I might share that story because I've been giving a little bit of grief about lasagna at home. And so I thought just showcase my sharing that story. But I love it. Today. Alhamdulillah. Well, and so I just want to add one more quick thing, right? Because people are like, well, what did that story have to do? So the second part of that story, that was",
      "I hope they like me and so today ladies and gentlemen boys and girls we are talking about that We're talking about our appearance. We have to stop Please",
      "Is there on your screen, if you were sharing your screen is there a way to just pause it on the screen? As-salamu alaykum ladies and gentlemen boys and girls today inshallah we are going to be talking about a subject called loneliness but before I There we go Perfect",
      "So let me just add a little bit of context to that, right? So context number one is saying that.",
      "Because we as Muslims want to ensure that we are kind of putting our best foot forward, right? When we are meeting individuals. That we want to, as Muslims, look beautiful and to beautify ourselves and to be clean. And so in that story I was trying to articulate and what I was connecting it to is saying, hey, I was meeting important people. And because I was meetings important people, I wanted to look good. I wanted the smell good.",
      "And so... Let me tell you this. Please. I got that, but you know what I got before that? Please. As soon as you tap on your phone is the importance of composing and writing a letter which people don't do anymore and having a postscript You see? Yeah. To get kids to understand",
      "kids to understand that there are various ways of communicating and to write a letter means you really have to stop and think about it. What am I going to say? Is my penmanship okay? How am I gonna get it to the person? Oh, my God! I gotta use mail. Use... A hundred percent. Somebody tall enough to reach the postman.",
      "Yeah, 100%, 100%. And what I would share as well is we do a teacher training. It's interesting because what we try to do as much as possible is again use research in our approach towards education.",
      "in that segment and what you heard, uh, what you would hear in most of the Newark kids work is, um, we draw on personal stories like me as a teacher. I draw on person situations in my life and I share that now, what that does is two things. Number one",
      "hypothetical situation. No, I'm being a human being and as teachers for example or as parents one of the best ways that we can teach is by being a role model and so our goal then is through these videos and through these programs is to try",
      "religion, something that is not relatable. Like it's in our life. It's something that we deal with on a daily basis. So that's what we attempt to do. Is it possible like VeggieTales for example to make these wonderful concepts available to kids of other faiths? So this very interesting question and the answer is yes but with an asterisk next to it.",
      "next to it. Okay. So we have been working on a really interesting effort related to animated videos, similar to VeggieTales. And as a part of that, we had the opportunity to work with just so many advisors around that process and so many people said, you know what I mean? These stories that you're talking about, our curriculum, majority of our curriculum has to do with akhlaa character, things like honesty and patience and trust and altruism.",
      "And a big part of it has to do with global citizenship, our commitment to the environment, our",
      "goal. And there's different organizations that have different purposes, but for us, you know, I'm trying to solve a very specific problem. It's a problem that I had and it is for Muslim children. I want the children to use our resources to become proud in who they are and to build a foundational understanding of their faith. Now that said, um, you",
      "profit, peace and blessings be on him. And what we have found is that there are many like-minded Christians and Jews who benefit from our work because they see God in our work as well. And so they benefit from it. And we welcome that. We're excited for that. But we don't actively try to change our work such that it becomes more palatable for people who are not Muslims.",
      "who are not Muslims. Well, palatable but useful. Yeah. All moral lessons and for many of us who are nonethnocentric we have kids of all faiths inside our families. Right. Yeah And Alhamdulillah it's been amazing to see that so a couple the stories that we've observed right? So look we you know we at Alhamdullilah Newer Kids we serve about 10 000 families",
      "families. One of the biggest things I've learned, Professor Amina is the diversity that exists within the Muslim community. Diversity in terms of look sometimes we confuse to think oh all Muslim kids have a mom and a dad well no there's many divorced families and we have to make sure that we are serving them you know we might assume that and oftentimes what will happen what we've experienced",
      "And so what we've discovered is that our work becomes even more valuable for that home because, you know, it's interesting. Because if someone were to pick up a textbook that says Islam 101, I mean, that takes a lot of thought and concentration to say, okay, I'm going to pick this book Islam 101. But as someone who may not identify as being Muslim to see a children's book and to read that children's",
      "in these hospitals, you know, look for resources that will connect with children and faith-based content as well. And so what ended up happening was is we'll get emails from people who are non-Muslim and who read our work and say, wow, like this is very similar to my own belief. And we really appreciate that. Yeah. Well, recently here in Chicagoland,",
      "powers that be decided that children must learn about LBT, no I'm gonna mess this up the alphabet proof. And how can parents give their children the necessary resources to understand what they're being forced to learn?",
      "This is a great question and I want to share my thoughts on this. And I also wanna respect the fact that, I am not the subject matter expert on this specific topic, right? But that said, I wanna share a couple of notes. Note number one is that this is not a problem that is only being experienced in Chicago. This is you know, in Canada so about three years ago",
      "landmark kind of situation wherein, yes in elementary school the discussion of same-sex marriage and the introduction of literature that makes same sex marriage a common element among the experience of children is something that is actually part of the curriculum. So what communities",
      "And parents, the playbook that they used was one where number one, there began an increased investment into Islamic schools and into homeschooling.",
      "community is where the community invests into these resources. And they need to be invested into, and here's why. You know, a private full-time Islamic school, I mean it doesn't receive any government funding. It is completely funded by people and through charitable gifts. And so therein lies a little bit of a challenge because if a parent is thinking okay well I want my child to get you know high quality academic secular education",
      "education, but I also want them to get a high quality theological education. You know, I would love to be able to provide that through a full-time Islamic school. Well, unfortunately because many of these institutions don't get enough funding you know, parents are forced with the decision, you know do I stay at the public school? That is very high performing, but perhaps they're going",
      "or do I expose them to, or include them in a full-time Islamic school where perhaps they'll get the theological background that I'm really excited about. But you know, in terms of, you know the quality of the education it isn't where I'm comfortable with. So anyways, moral of the story is a couple of things. Number one, what I would share is this communicates the importance of us investing into these resources because they are critical.",
      "that is available and that I think a lot of parents haven't seriously thought about is homeschooling. And the travel that we've done in Toronto, in Dallas, in places like Tampa Bay, in San Jose, the resources that are available for homeschoolING are so incredible now. In fact even with my own daughter",
      "you know, it is a little bit of, uh, you know. It's unique, you parents have to make that decision. It s not easy right? So for husband and wife or family however the family might be structured, um, that is a serious investment to invest in. But also what the pandemic has taught us his parents are reassessing how much they like their kids. I'm not a teacher and oh my God!",
      "departmentalization that a child needs for structure during a day. You know, and here's what I'd say, right? And of course different strokes for different folks and appreciating diversity within the community. And of there's also financial element here too because some parents need to work and that's reality of it. We're framing this conversation around a specific issue that is LGBT. I want to take a step back and I want",
      "sidebar. When we talk about the first nine years of a child's life and the fact that during these first nine year,s that is when a child is establishing their identity and that is where you know we have the highest return on investment. The single most important variable Professor Amina that impacts a child s understanding",
      "And this is research that was done in the United States, replicated in Europe, replicated Southeast Asia, replicated Africa. So this is like you know in terms of theory with respect to education this is at a very high level or people strongly believe in this. The single most important variable that impacts a child's understanding of who they are it's not where they go to school, it's",
      "that child has with their mom or their dad, the relationship a child has what their parents at a young age. Now this is actually really interesting because there's so much conversation that often happens around schooling and where I decided to have my kids go. A lot of families are really focused on extracurriculars. Oh man,",
      "an ex and if they don't get involved in x then they're not going to go to Harvard. And if they do, what are they? Not going to be successful. This is how Muslim people are thinking. And we have to reframe the discussion because during these first nine years, The most valuable investment a mom or a dad can make is that quality time, that loving time. You can work, you can eat and you have no time.",
      "right you're a hundred percent right so you know of course you know there are restrictions and if families can't provide that then you know the it is what it is but um you know for families that can provide it but elect not to right? And that's fine, right again different strokes for different folks. Right? There's there's different situations. Um what I'm highlighting is in even by the way even by The Way If a child attends public school or if a child attend weekends or full-time Islamic school It doesn't absolve the parent of quality time",
      "time, right? Like either way even if the children are involved in these um The moral of the story is quality time. Quality time. Yeah but that's why I was asked with this issue in particular and as many religious communities have risen up here, NORKIDS provides an excellent platform to give the kids a way to understand what they're being taught and not to shun",
      "to bully, not to do any of those things but a way to interpret the information that's coming in. Yeah and Alhamdulillah we do our best now again our focus is on ages 9 and younger and so you know we 3rd grade? 4th grade? Yes so 9 would be 3rd right 9 would",
      "to serve and to make difficult concepts relatable, and at a child's level. So for example with respect of Black Lives Matter and the conversation on racism even within the Muslim community we've actually created specific content for that with respect to COVID-19. We actually created",
      "idea of internalizing this idea of what's going on. And it was a 10-part course where we explored everything from death to the idea of cleanliness, to the",
      "But where we are not equipped, you know, we try to stay in our lane. And I will say, you with this conversation with the LGBT, you now, this is not a conversation that we have addressed head on. A part of it is, you we're not equipped to do it just yet. We're just not. Okay. How do you plan to expand your resources?",
      "Well, we plan on expanding our resources in a couple of ways. One is geographically. So for a long time, New York Kids has only been available in the U.S. and Canada. And alhamdulillah, we have developed a partnership with a really great Muslim organization based in Iowa that has allowed us to make it available across the world. That's been a big deal. Very big deal! Yeah, alhamdullilah. Alhamdulilah.",
      "on right now are a couple of things. One is we're working on this project related to animated video, and I'm really excited about it. We're aiming for this. We'll shoot for the stars in the same way that VeggieTales was able to connect with people like Netflix to make it available across the world. That's what we're trying to do. Number two is with respect to supporting weekend and full-time Islamic schools, you know, this 2020 year is not going to be easy. It's gonna be challenging but we are all in it together",
      "all in it together. So, you know, we are trying our best to develop solutions that teachers can use and benefit from. And then finally, thinking more about how do we connect with families online? So by creating online classes. So like I mentioned right now every member of Noor Kids has the opportunity to join a online camp that we're doing over the summer months.",
      "Can you stop and say more about the online camp, how they can join when it starts? Yes. Well, I'm glad you asked. So when I was a kid, 100 years ago, my family was Allahu Akbar amazing. And during the summer months, that was my time to memorize the Quran.",
      "the Quran. That was my time to learn, you know, how to read the Quran but I never actually built a genuine connection with it in that I never really began to look at the Quran as like a resource like wow this is like a guide for my life so this summer what our goal is is to help children build a genuine relationship",
      "doing that is we are um doing a 10 week in-depth discussion on the advice that Luqman al-Hakim you know the wise gives to his son as detailed in the Quran so we're basically reading the Quran and we're looking at these specific advice that look man has given to a son and we've looked at um you know uh commentators",
      "discussing these and incorporating into our life. Now, what's fascinating? I mean it's so fast because Professor Omni if I were to ask you right, you said you have grandchildren. Too many. If you were to like summarize right, if you were say hey grandchild this is my advice to you. It's a pretty exciting concept. Yeah thank you. And so look man, I mean think about it he gave 10 pieces of advice",
      "These 10 pieces of advice were so profound that this man who's not even a prophet, not even A Prophet Allah Subhanahu Wa Ta'ala honors him by saying I'm including this advice in the Quran for people to read over and over and Over again you know until the end of times. And so the way it works is every Thursday There is an actual class okay? And there's like two parts of the class and children are able to watch it on demand meaning at their own convenience and the reason why we do that is because",
      "is because Alhamdulillah, we have people in the UK and people in Qatar and people Saudi. And of course people in US and Canada but they have to be able to watch a class at their own convenience so they're able to it. And in the class we detail this then over the weekend they have a challenge. So what challenges like a hands-on project that we challenged them to do and by Sunday they upload it once they upload It's amazing because Dr. Amna you can see all",
      "All of the kids from around the world. So it creates a little community. I'm excited. When does this start? It actually has started, right? Because it's July 21st, right? Can they still sign up? They can still signup and Alhamdulillah we've made it very affordable. So basically if you become a member of the Newark Kids Ahlulq building program, you get it for free. So if you just go to newarkkids.com A four month membership is about 30 bucks. Cheap! Yeah, alhamdulilah",
      "It's about 30 bucks. And so you get a new book delivered to your home every month, right? That's our primary program. But then in addition, you get the online resources for free. So we try to make it as accessible as possible. And if families can't afford that, send us an email and we'll provide it as free of charge. I mean, we want people to buy our books. What week are we in now? We just started week four. Four? Yep, week four, week 4 of week 10. So you still have six weeks left. OK.",
      "Okay, so I'm a parent. I just learned about this today. Where do I need to go in the Quran to do the first three pieces of guidance? Yeah, so if you join the class, what's interesting is you can actually see week one, week two, week three. So literally they can, if they access the class they'll be able to see it.",
      "begins providing to his child. I believe it starts on the 14th verse and, and it's fascinating. I mean, I could talk about it at length. It's so fascinating. And I am just floored by the fact that you all came up with this. I",
      "piece of advice that Luqman gives to his son is he tells his son, he says, son, you know, worship Allah Subh'anaHu Wa Ta-A'la and only worship Allah subhanahu wa ta-ala. Right? Polytheism, shirk, is a great injustice. Now we're talking with four to nine year old children. How in the world are we going to communicate? What does this even mean to like,",
      "mean to like polytheism? What does that even mean? So here's the idea, right? Shirk, the concept here is to worship anything other than Allah subhanahu wa ta'ala. Right now when we think about worship oftentimes what comes to our mind is literally like salah and when we",
      "Anything other than Allah. And most often that means worshiping myself and, you know, whatever obeying my own rules not the rules of Allah I'm just going to obey my own rule or instead of obeying the rules Of Allah obeying The Rules of Other People right so for most people So how do we teach this? How do we Teach This? Okay Dr. Ahmed are you familiar with a Tesla? Yes",
      "Okay. So I discovered... I don't have one. I don' t have one either. I do not know if, inshallah, you know? But anyway so Tesla created a Tesla Power Wheels. So you know power wheels like it's like a miniature okay so this Dr Amina is amazing! It's literally made of metal. It has lights that actually work. It's got like a charger just like the Tesla Charger. It",
      "So now if you imagine, Dr. Amina, if someone gave you – if you got one of these, how would you want to use it? Now there's a couple of ways that you might use it. One way you might us it is to say, hey, you know what? I got this as a gift. I'm going to use the way I want to do it. I want To use it so what I would do is right out of the box, there's little bit of charge. I would put the keys in ignition and turn on and take for drive because that's what I'd do but here's the issue with that.",
      "Because I literally don't know better.",
      "that Tesla because you don't even know better. Well, what's another thing you could do? You could use that Tesla the way that other people want you to use it. And you're like, well, what does that mean? What I mean is YouTube. If you go on YouTube and we actually showed in the class, the very first video of any person using the Tesla, the one that has the most views is not of a kid riding the Tesla. It's just someone taking the Tesla and throwing it off of a cliff to see what would happen",
      "views. That's when you follow the rules of other people, right? You end up doing things that are just inappropriate. So now as we think about ourselves, now we don't have a Tesla but Allah subhanahu wa ta'ala has given each of us a body and a soul. Now the question is how do we want to use it? Do we want",
      "Just like you didn't create the Tesla and you could have messed it up by just following your own rules, we didn't actually create our own selves. And if I just follow my own whims, I mean, I could ruin myself. Like I could unknowingly make mistakes that could really tarnish my soul. If I use my body and my soul and my life in a way to please other people, well, in the same way that that Tesla, when people use that to get likes",
      "to get likes and views, if I lead my life in that way, well, that could lead to my destruction as well. Really the best way to use it is to read the instruction manual and to see what the instruction says and live our life based on that. And that instruction manual is the Quran and the life of our prophet. I'm loving it. Loving it people out there sign up. Well, anyways, I, it's like for me, it",
      "It's like I get really excited about, you know, taking an idea that again as a kid when I was in Sunday school. You know someone says last year, you don't do shirk and this is injustice. You it was a conversation oh yeah don't worship idols but come on it's much more than that. Yes absolutely. Last question.",
      "Five of my grandkids, well their parents rather have signed up for NORKids. The things I appreciate is the diversity. Lots of times they're animals but other times the kids don't get so focused on some other things about race while they're trying to learn a lesson. So have you any plans",
      "inside the Muslim community? Man, that is an amazing question. There are so many thoughts that come to mind. I want to share three of them. Okay. Number one, it is so unfortunate that today in Muslim children's literature,",
      "And the reality is, is that even the majority of Muslims in the world don't have white faces. You know, it's just you know, we've idolized this ethnicity that we don't even embody. I mean, talk about internalized oppression. Come on, you know? And so we specifically made the decision to make our characters animals.",
      "because inevitably then they do not have race. And as a result, children of any sort of ethnic background could identify with these characters. So we did that very purposefully. Now number two, when we think about diversity, there is of course ethnic diversity. But even outside of ethnic diversity,",
      "mom and dad are not together. And this is real, this is the reality of our community. But then there's other forms of diversity as well even in terms of religious diversity right? So you know not all Muslim women decide to observe hijab right now that said we have to make editorial decisions to say well what does that mean and how do we ensure that these children are also brought into the work that",
      "Muslim war can kind of alienate people who aren't in the first row of Salah. And that's, you know, we have to make our tent a little bit bigger to include everyone. So we try to make educated decisions as often as we can with the consultation of our scholarly advisors.",
      "Sheikh Rizwan Arastu. So even a diversity of shayyuh who, you know, we get advice on to say, hey, how might we tackle this issue? Now that said, we published a book called two books. One book was called Different by Design where we talk about diversity pretty head-on and this idea where Allah subhanahu wa ta'ala says in the Quran that I've made you from different nations and tribes such that you may get to know one another. It's an amazing title",
      "an amazing title and it exists. There's another one that is called Getting Along for Good, which talks about this concept of unity. Can I ask you to give me the titles of those books again? Yes. Everybody to know them. Different by Design. And then the second one is called",
      "is a title that talks about unity within the Muslim community. And again, first we have mashallah very privileged opportunity to at a young age introduce these concepts to our children and you know that is something that is really I think exciting because",
      "unfortunately as a community, especially when it gets into the politics of a masjid and all the grown-up kind of problems. There is so much unfortunate disunity even within the Muslim community that I'm very proud that we've been able to tackle this subject in a really robust way. Well you've given me more energy than I usually have about this topic",
      "about this during the day. And I am so excited because when I first got an email about North kids, yes and sign you know call my daughter in law get it called my other daughter in love get it, you know? And we've been extremely pleased Dr. Amina that means so much now the kids look forward to that book arriving. It really means so",
      "telling you know you you all have done in such a short time an exemplary job it you know i'll tell you um allah subhanahu wa ta'ala says and you know hadith quidsi he says you know take one step towards me and i'll take ten towards you walk towards me, and I'll come towards you with speed. And so Allah has certainly honored us and helped us and also um you know on PBS it's like made possible because of viewers like you",
      "That is like so true. Dr. Amina, we have a team of 15 people. We have actual Islamic researchers. Our writers are writers who also write for Hughton Mifflin and Simon & Schuster. So we have to pay them, right? And so literally this effort is only possible because of people who support it.",
      "And, you know, we don't ask for a lot. Thirty bucks for four months. Right. And free shipping. Right? So we try to make it as affordable as possible. But these works and not just Newark kids, there's so many amazing Muslim children's literature and work. And what families have to understand is that it is possible when we invest into it.",
      "But I would encourage parents to say, look these are investments and invest into your child. And in the first nine years there's not gonna be a higher return on investment during any other age group. I think you're absolutely right. This is Critical Talk with Professor Amin Al-Din and I mean us here and I have had a delicious time.",
      "back there on that shelf. Inshallah, and I want everything on the... I don't even know what's on the back shelf out there but I'm excited. I'm going to line it up in my study. I hope our viewing audience has understood that all of these shows are made possible by Muslim Network TV which we are hoping that everybody including your kids supports",
      "that I will be talking with you again. Insha'Allah, insha'allah and I pray that Allah subhanahu wa ta'ala puts barakah on your efforts and also put the barakah in the efforts of Sound Vision. You know one of the things that I recognize personally and um you know i think about this in many ways you know so my story is my mom five years ago she passed away when she passed a way I was like you know what I want to do for our kids is a way for me to do Sadaqah Jariyah and I think about impact not just from people who actually read",
      "I think about impact in terms of, hey, if we can inspire other creatives to do great work, then yeah, that's a good deed in my piggy bank too. And Sound Vision is one of those organizations that inspired us to believe and to think about the possibilities of what we can do. And in Sound Vision, Mashallah has been a pioneer in so many ways. And I hope and I pray that we with New York Kids",
      "vision and find new ways and efforts, um, and do a better job of supporting some vision as well. Thank you so much. And I'm going to give my slums Salaam alaikum and peace to our listening audience. And we will be back."
    ]
  },
  {
    "file": "amina_mccloud/Dr_ Aminah Beverly McCloud _ Wanita Islam adalah a__1742899495.opus",
    "text": [
      "Wanita Islam adalah agen perubahan yang mampu mengatasi stereotip dan mempromosikan persatuan dalam keragaman."
    ]
  },
  {
    "file": "amina_mccloud/Gender dan Islam Perspektif Leila Ahmed dan Amina _LLzF3RA4JOI&pp=ygURQW1pbmEgV2FkdWQgaXNsYW3SBwkJvQCDtaTen9Q%3D_1742922989.opus",
    "text": [
      "Surah ini kita di forum online kajian gender. Kita akan membicarakan tema dari kedua tokoh postmodern yang berasal dari Mesir dan Amerika,",
      "yaitu Laila Ahmed dan Amina Wadud, yang nanti akan disampaikan lebih jelas lagi oleh presenter kita bertiga. Sebelum kami mempersilahkan waktu untuk presenter,",
      "dibahas biasanya di kelas kuliah pasca gender disini dialah kestaraan gender itu bukan tentang jenis kelamin yang dipicarakan bukan tentang laki-laki dan perempuan tapi kesteraan gender yaitu tentang hak seorang",
      "tampil ke publik, untuk pendidikan, untuk menjadi pemimpin bahkan dia memiliki kesempatan yang sama. Memiliki hak yang sama, memilki hak yang setara dengan kaum laki-laki. Pokok-pokok gender dalam Islam pada umumnya lahir di Timur Tengah seperti di Maroko, di Mesir memang dengan latar sosial budaya mereka",
      "mereka kebanyakan yaitu menganggap bahwasanya teks Al-Quran dan hadis-hadis misoginis yang ditafsirkan oleh ulama salaf, ulama utakodimin perlu adanya pemahaman lagi di era yang lebih modern seperti sekarang ini untuk kaum perempuan",
      "Di samping itu gejala sosial di Timur Tengah pada waktu itu juga adanya latar belakang penjajahan dan semacamnya dari negara-negara Inggris dan negara Eropa.",
      "lebih membumi, lebih maju dan lebih sesuai dengan realitas. Kembali lagi kepada Mina Wadud dan Leila Ahmed maka akan disampaikan oleh presenter kita pada kesempatan hari ini kemudian waktu waktunya setiap presenter memiliki kesembatan",
      "15 atau maksimal sampai 20 cukup ya. Nanti setengah kesempatannya, setengahlah waktunya kita isi dengan beberapa forum pertanyaan dari audiens, dari para pendengar. Oke untuk mempersingkat waktu kami persilahkan kepada moderator",
      "pemaparan materinya pada sore ini, kami persilahkan siapa yang akan menjelaskan terlebih dahulu. Nanti langsung disampaikan secara estafet ya, bergantian presenter satu dan presenter berikutnya. Monggo, Mbak Azmi, Mas Safi, dan Mas Fawaz, siapa Yang akan lebih dulu menjelas?",
      "Mohon maaf sebelumnya, apakah share screen saya sudah terlihat? Sudah. Baik, terima kasih yang saya hormati kepada Ibu Dr. Isyadeh dan juga Bu Dr. Jamila.",
      "dosen pengampu mata kuliah gender dan Islam, serta kepada moderator yang telah mempersilahkan saya untuk mempresentasikan materi pada sore hari ini, serto kepada teman-teman sekalian yang telahan berkenaan hadir dalam kesempatan sore hari. Baik, pada sore harini saya dan teman saya akan menjelaskan tentang Gender dan Islam perspektif Laila Ahmad dan Amina Wadud",
      "Untuk yang pertama, disini saya akan menjelaskan tentang Amina Wadud Mohsin. Beliau adalah seorang teolog feminis dan juga ahli agama Islam. Beliu dilahirkan pada tanggal 25 September 1952 di Amerika. Meskipun beliulahirakan di Amerika, beliau merupakan keturunan Afrika juga.",
      "Dan pada saat itu, kondisi ketika beliau merupakan seorang non-muslim dan ayahnya adalah pendeta yang taat. Hingga pada tahun 1972, beliau menjadi mu'alaf dengan latar belakang masyarakat di sekitarnya.",
      "sedang mengalami pergolakan superior kulit putih. Dalam kata lain, mengagumkan atau meninggikan derajat kulit butuh dari bandingkan kulit yang lebih gelap. Selain itu, kondisi masyarakat juga mengagungkan hal-hal materialistis dengan kata lagi mendiskriminasi orang-orang yang dengan taraf ekonomi yang kurang.",
      "Dari latar belakang tersebut, di lingkungan masyarakat mereka terjadilah yang dinamakan diskriminasi perempuan dan ketimpangan gender. Diskriminasi perpuan dan ketinggian jenderal menimbulkan keterpurukan perepuan di segala bidang dari segi lingkungannya",
      "Setelah beliau menjadi mu'alaf, beliau merasa heran mengapa ternyata setelah berjadi muslim perempuan justru termarjinalkan. Dari situ timbul kegelisahan akademik dan beliau berusaha menelusurinya dan menurut beliau hal tersebut timbul akibat daripada penafsiran dan pemikiran ulama yang cenderung memarjinakan perepuan",
      "jenis kelamin kedua. Sehingga dari latar belakang tersebut, beliau mencetuskan atau menggaungkan apa yang dinamakan sebagai zihat gender. Ada pun tentang pemikiran selanjutnya terkait Amina Wadud akan dijelaskan oleh saudara kita Muhammad Safiullah. Terima kasih. Baik, saya ambil alih.",
      "Saya ambil lali. Suara saya kedengeran ya? Iya, iya kedengaran. Assalamualaikum warahmatullahi wabarakatuh. Waalaikumsalam warahmati Allah. Terima kasih atas waktunya Bapak moderator. Pada sehari ini saya selaku pembicara presenter kedua.",
      "selaku presenter kedua akan menjelaskan bagaimana kemudian Aminah Wadud itu memiliki pemikiran terkait benda itu sendiri dari sini kemudia sudah jelaskam tadi terkai tentang latar belakang kenapa kemudien Aminoh wadud",
      "dijelaskan oleh presenter pertama jadi sekarang saya akan menggali atau menjelaskanku tentang pemikiran beliau kenapa kemudian admin hotdisk itu bisa memiliki peningkat seperti ini itu Hai eh timbul atau bermuara dari metode hermotika yang terlalu telah apa ya dan telah",
      "dijelaskan oleh Fadlur Rahman dan Khalid Abu Elfad. Jadi Aminah Waduh ini mengacu terhadap dua tokoh kontemporer ini sehingga kemudian bisa melahirkan penaksiran-penaksiran yang inovatif dan kreatif, yang itu selaras dengan zaman sekarang.",
      "zaman sekarang. Menurut Aminah Wadud itu sendiri, antara laki-laki dan perempuan itu sama posisinya di hadapan Allah SWT. Sehingga kemudian ketika ada diskriminasi terhadap kaum wanita maka Aminahl Wadu disini",
      "Aminah Wadud di sini tidak menerima hal itu sehingga kemudian memunculkan pemikiran-pemikiran seperti ini. Contoh, salah satu contoh yang konkret yang kemudahan Aminat Wadid itu menjelaskan",
      "Di situ dijelaskan, dalam mini draft itu dijelarkan bahwasannya tidak selamanya wanita itu mendapatkan lebih sedikit dari bagian laki-laki.",
      "Maksudnya ini dari pemahaman mufassirin, dari tafsir yang ditafsirkan oleh mufasirin itu maka Aminah Wadud ini sedikit memberikan penafsiran bahwa",
      "dalam suatu waktu antara laki-laki dan perempuan itu harus ya harus sama dengan dengan dengan laki laki gitu loh menjadi jadi seperti itu anjir selesai lanjutnya Hai adalah pemikiran Aminah wadud itu sendiri maka mengerti kau",
      "itu memunculkan reformasi sosial bagi kaum perempuan. Di situ ada relasi gender antara keadilan dalam sosial dan kesetaraan gender. Adil dan setara itu hal-hal yang kemudian perlu kita pahami,",
      "Tidak selamanya keadilan setara itu adil dan tidak selamnya adil itu setara. Contoh seperti ini, contoh ketika kita memiliki dua orang teman antara laki-laki dan perempuan atau katakanlah di sini kita mempunyai anak maka kita memberikan suatu hal kebutuhan itu",
      "hal kebutuhan itu tidak harus sama dengan apa yang kita akan berikan kepada dua anak ini. Dalam artian, kita memberikan hak yang seharusnya dikutukan oleh dua anak ininya. Seperti itu. Itu tentang masalah keadilan. Keadilan itu sudah dijelaskan dalam agama Islam bahwa seperti ini, seperti ini. Terkait dengan kestaraan, maka dalam hal ini",
      "setaraan gender itu yang setara itu sebenarnya apa? Nah maka dari ini, yang setera itu menurut Aminah Hudud, itu waktu atau peluang bagaimana perempuan itu antara perembuan dan laki-laki itu tidak dibatasi. Misalkan peremuan itu mau berkarir di bidang politik,",
      "seperti itu. Jadi kalau laki-laki bisa berkarir di bidang politik, maka perempuan juga harus bisa berkarya di bidangan politik. Seperti itu.",
      "dan saya kembalikan lagi kepada pembicara persenter ketiga. Ini langsung saya mulai Mas Obi. Oke, baik. Bismillahirrahmanirrahim. Assalamualaikum warahmatullahi wabarakatuh. Alhamdulillahi khairan adzim.",
      "di sini saya sebagai apa pelestori ya teman-teman mungkin lagi kemudian mungkin temen-temen yang hadir disini saya berterima kasih banget sudah mensupport kami agar terus berkembang disini Saya akan sedikit mengelakkan kepada kalian atau mungkin bahkan kalau lebih kenal sosok Laila Ahmad ini tentang",
      "tentang bagaimana pemikiran beliau itu terkait feminisme, gender dan Islam. Nah sejujurnya saya itu untuk memahami beliau ini butuh waktu yang lama cuman waktu saya hanya satu hari, satu malam dan untuk memalmi seorang wanita dengan berbagai keilmuannya itu saya mencoba saja jadi teman-teman nanti bisa mengoreksi ada yang salah atau tidak",
      "Sebelumnya saya berterima kasih kepada ummi saya, seorang ibu yang telah melakukan saya. Saya juga berterimasi kepada teman-teman perempuan dan dosen-dosen perembuan saya. Inspirasi saya, karena apa? Saya nyatakan dengan Nabi Muhammad dulu ketika menerima wahyu ikhroq. Terus kata Nabi bilang, Ma'am Nabi Qari' ya Jibril, saya itu nggak bisa baca. Kamu suruh baca, saya nggak usah baca",
      "Memang sosok perempuan itu ada privilege tertentu di bagian perhatian. Kasih sayang, seperti itu. Lanjut teman-teman. Mohon maaf ya ini mungkin sedikit melebar. Nggak apa-apa. Lanitnya pemikiran Layla Ahmed. Di sini saya memang misalkan pemikirannya itu keren, cukup keren. Beliau itu seperti ini Pak. Sebelum saya mendahaskan sedikit historisnya. Belia berpikiran seperti ini. Ketika seorang ulama, ketika se orang ufasir itu",
      "itu memiliki otoritas untuk menafsirkan, memahamkan suatu ajaran agama. Mengapa seorang muslima tidak bisa melakukan seperti hal itu? Ketika kita memahami penafsiran-penafsiren dari klasik mungkin ya, dari klinik klasis itu ketika kita membaca memang sedikit mengelitik di hati gitu loh bos. Gitu teman-teman maksudnya mengeliti di hatinya kenapa? Karena ketika seorang perempuan membaca kok penafsilannya seperti ini? Apakah memang",
      "Atau kalau memang kanjangan Nabi Muhammad SAW itu seperti ini, bilangnya. Asbabul Wurud mungkin. Asbahbul Nuzlan seperti ini. Cuman pada waktu itu sehingga seorang perempuan agama Islam ini membatasi. Mungkin ini pemikiran seorang peremuannya. Bukan Al-Quran yang salah. Akhirnya muncullah teman-teman mungkin kalau teman tersebut pasti tahu ada juga dari kemenang tafsir kedudukan perembuan ada. Ada tafsiri kebijian juga ada.",
      "Memang beberapa tafsir klasik yang mungkin kiranya itu kurang relevan atau penyampaiannya tidak selunak. Ya itulah. Itu, Raya Ahmad dan Raya Jendral itu kenapa ketika seorang ulama bisa menyampaikan hal yang sama, kenapa saya seorang perempuan tidak bisa menyampai? Nah, itu. Ini juga saya gambarkan di pendanggulan saya, di pekor saya ini bahwasannya jangan memandang seorang perpon itu dengan hal yang buruk. Kenapa?",
      "Kenapa? Bahwasannya disini ada, saya mengutip perkataan Lyle Austin. Dia berkata, mengatakan bahwa aku nggak tahu. Nggak tahu dijiptakannya perempuan itu buat apa, nggak tahu dia berpikir atau mungkin dijiptakan seorang perwan itu hanya untuk melahirkan saja. Terus juga yang agama Yahudi itu juga menganggap seorang perembuan itu dianggab yang ngamutan",
      "banyak teman-teman udah tahu di Islam juga seperti itu cuman loh siapa yang tetap salah makanya tidak bisa wajah ya itulah itu pemikiran-pemikiran yang salah lanjut beliau ini lelah Ahmad memang dalam penyampaiannya itu berbeda dari",
      "Karena metode yang dia gunakan adalah secara apa ya? Lugas. Lugis, kayak saya mungkin ya. Ligus gitu. Comprehensive. Terus beliau memandang ketimbangan gender itu harus dinilai pertama kali memang dari akarnya. Dari akarnya seperti itu. Next. Ini juga langsung eh, sebelum-sebelum nggak? Yang mungkin saya terlalu melebah dia. Beliau ini juga lahir di Ilekungan dengan beliau lahir ke Mesir",
      "lahir di Mesir, di daerah beliau lahir dia era heliopolis bahasanya itu kayak malang pinggiran munculnya di muslim pinggirannya di daera kota Cairo Mesir beliau itu ayahnya itu seorang mesir asli ya sama terakhir intelektual",
      "Kalau ibunya itu orang Turki, terus keilmuannya orang Turku kan udah kita ketahui ya. Ya perekonomiannya tuh high class lah rasanya. High class gitu lah. Akhirnya lahirlah Layla Ahmed ini di lingkungan yang... Musyad kan Islam loh. Ternyata musyad di daerah tadi itu orang-orangnya tidak berkeludung. Lahir di lingkup kadang masyarakat wanita tanpa hijab. Ya budayanya pada waktu itu lingkungannya tidak memakai hijab",
      "pakai hijab cuman menanamkan ilmu-ilmu keislaman tetap mungkin secara sosial secara pribadi kepada Tuhan itu tetap jam atau begitu memang budayanya tidak sampai orang-orangnya umumnya tidak memakai hijab lanjut akhirnya beliau itu juga hidup di masa peperangan",
      "makanya itu saya sebutkan mempengaruhi pemikirannya Laila Ahmed, lena liberal dari aristokraksi Mesir di bawah sistem pemerintahan ancient regime maksudnya pada waktu itu Mesir dulu dijajak oleh Perancis dan apa teman-teman? Inggris maksud nya tentara kebijakan pemerinat tersebut itu mempngaruh secara pikiran itu ngaruh terus akhirnya beliau",
      "lanjut di Cambridge beliau itu memang pada waktu kecil memang pingin pulih dari luar negeri karena mungkin bosen ya di Mesir warlock cuman pada waktu itu ayahnya juga kontroversial ketika sama seorang presiden Nasr itu gak cocok karena kebijakannya akhirnya dipecat akhirnya keluarganya gak punya uang cuman mengumpulkan",
      "Dia mengumpulkan rezeki dan punya tekad itu sehingga dia bisa lanjut di Cambridge. Mulanya Laila Ahmad berpikiran karena di daerahnya, di desanya ada orang-orang penjajat. Berpikirannya keren mereka itu. Luas pandangannya terbuka. Oke lah lunak dan sebagainya. Wah saya misalkan saya ulian di luar negeri, bisa nih saya seperti mereka. Kira berangkatlah ke Cambridge. Waduh. Sampai di Cambridge berbeda.",
      "Berbeda 360 derajat. 360 deraja kenapa? Ketika dia masuk di ranah lingkungan yang dia inginkan, tidak seperti itu. Dia berpikiran mungkin orang-orang Barat bakal bisa menerima saya. Kalau saya juga enggak memakai hijab bahasanya, seperti mereka, gak semudah itu. Orang-orang barat itu menyampaikan bahwasannya, kamu siapa? Kamu bukan warga lokal, kamu orang Arab.",
      "kita bandingkan kapasitas pemikirannya, saya lebih modern bos. Akhirnya, kena lah rasisme. Lela Ahmad itu udah jauh-jauh dari musyid, kembali kena rasis. Akhinya, ya tapi beliau berkembang. Lanjut mbak. Mbak Semih. Ini nih. Hijab mendapatkan serutip daripada dantikan negatif. Emang bener? Mungkin teman-teman yang S2 sudah saya share ya mungkin.",
      "saya share ya mungkin bahwasanya Laila Ahmad itu ini terlalu, nggak terlalun mencoba berpikir bahasanya ini hijab ini di Mesir ini kok bisa enggak masih gitu kenapa gitu apakah karena memang budayanya belum sampai seperti itu apakah memang kita tuh tidak mau nah itu sedikit cerita bahwasannya orang-orang muslim itu nggak semua ya nggak semua mungkin didesaknya Lailah Ahmad mungkin lingkungannya saja ketika",
      "Ketika orang semakin berilmu ya. Dia itu mikir, saya itu masuk Islam agar bebas. Bukan bebas dalam artian los enggak. Tergantung saya mencapai seperti apa. Terhubung saya memanjakan satu hal itu seperti apa kan? Islam itu lunak dan sebagainya oke. Cuma ketika melihat satu ayat yang mungkin harus seperti ini bos. Harus seperti ini dalam sesuatu hal. Mereka nggak terima loh. Saya mau ini kok dikekang.",
      "ini kok dikekang contohnya hijab saya pengen beraktivitas di luar cuma harus memakai hijab pemikiran yang kesalahan seperti itu, yang patut kita kritisi bahwa padahal mendapat seseorang hijab itu mengurangi kapabilitas kita sebagai muslimah sebab itu akhirnya lama mikir banget kenapa ya singkat cerita",
      "itu dia menyampaikan di bukunya dengan historical telling story yang cukup keren ya itu Mesir itu itu perang banget perang terus juga politiknya iskandar politik yaitu keren cuman ini agennya kenapa seorang muslimah itu enggak pakai hijab Agila mungkin teman-teman tahu ada gerakan ikhwanul muslimin",
      "berjuang pada melakukan perjuangan melawan penjajahan itu Mesir melawan Israel singa cerita yang memang yang melakukan apa ya penghilangnya penjajaan itu orang-orang muslimin dan muslimah itu mikir kamu orang-orang Muslim tapi enggak memakai baju sesuai syariat akhirnya orang-",
      "Yes, muslimah. Berhijab. Yes, berhijablah. Akhirnya pada... Karena itu, karena peperangan itu akhirnya oh gitu ya, kok ternyata muslima itu harus gini? Beberapa orang memakai hijab di Mesir atau di situ. Akarnya jadi trend fashion lah. Trend fashion di universitas sepertinya seperti zaman sekarang. Biar sedikit, akhirnya semua orang ikut. Lanjut.",
      "Udah, itu udah. Masmi? Ini saya mungkin ya. Nah ini juga kajian tentang pemikiran Nella Ahmed mengapa kok kebangkitan hijab di Mesir di Eropa itu abad 20. Abad 19-18 mungkin. Beliau dalam arti bukunya ini",
      "awal abad 20. Kenapa adanya penolakan hijab dan pengasingan atau pemengitang? Dalam artian, ketika saya mengungkap hijab, saya dimajinalkan. Saya itu dibunyikan. Bukan hijabnya yang salah. Buka sikap memilih hijab yang salah, tapi kebijakannya diwujudkan oleh orang tersebut. Nah ini ada tentang peradaban barat juga sama tadi liberal terus penyebaran fenomena normalisasi melepas hijab",
      "pas hijab, itu juga memang terjadi di Mesir awal ke-20. Lanjut, karena rancunya permasalahan tersebut akhirnya ulama-ulama Mesir gak mau diam. Akhirnya menawarkan fatwa pada tahun 1911 itu gini, misalkan ada orang yang Mesir enggak berhijab ayo dihukum ayus. Beneran bos? Dihukam penjara atau didendang? Seperti itunya. Berarti kan",
      "orang-orang Mesir pada zaman itu tidak berpedulung. Ada yang berpedun dan ada yang tidak berpdudung. Terus ini juga ada perubahan sosial politik Mesir, tadi saya bilang pemimpin satu kayak Gamal Abdul Nasser yang berkibarat ke ideologi Uni Soviet terus wapresnya itu Anwar Sadat itu prokapital, prokapitaisme akhirnya meminta tolong dengan orang barat, orang Amerika bahasanya. Lanjut",
      "Menurut kaum perempuan imam-imam muslimnya itu sudah saya jelaskan. Terus, menurut Al-Ghundi ini juga sama. Pakaian Islamis makin tersebar cepat pasca peperangan. Nah, ini yang penting teman-teman. Ini penting banget mungkin. Kenapa kita baju itu kok sampai menjadi identitas kita? Makanya kenapa ada politik identitas gitu. Nah. Al-Hudini ini terakhir. Nanti mungkin teman‑teman bisa tanya–tanya ya. Al-'Ghudi itu mengatakan bahwasannya",
      "bahwasannya, perempuan-perempuhan dari gerakan Islamis, seperti ikhwanul muslimah contohnya, melakukan transformasi diri. Pertama mungkin dari segi psikologi, dari pemahaman konteks terus secara intelektual dan kontekstual. Terus dalam komunitas ini mereka ingin menampilkan diri sebagai seorang muslima yang berpendidikan profesional tidak etis elitis dan berhijab Mereka",
      "kuat bagi mereka untuk menyampaikan pesan, loh ini lo Islam bos dengan sintesis antara modernitas dan autenticitas sebagai seorang muslim nah sekarang saya kembalikan kepada temen-temen kalau jujur saya kan ya kaum millennial binzi suka tiktokan nah itu ya orang-orang yang berhijab cuma memakai hijab itu seperti apa? apakah fashion saja? apaka sebuah benda yang ketika saya memakainya",
      "dapat menggigitkan saya dari hal-hal yang negatif atau fashion soalnya ngapunten gitu ngaputen sangat ini saya tertarik dengan penelitian bahwasannya Yeni seleng seleng itu kayak apa ya Sigma masyarakat Genji cek masakan genjio setiap kali ini ada katakana denurus mungkin teman udah tahu lah denuruse orang-orang yang berkudu tapi suka joget juga",
      "ini solehah di alih bahasa muda solehod ada lagi ngamuten mungkin ingat benennya topbrut dia toblis kena seperti dalam makanya stigma apa masyarakat kemuslimah itu jadi buruk gitu loh karena ya bancaan mereka ketika kita cari diesel tiktok yang orangnya yang ngebutin hal-hal yang jelek mungkin Pak Aziz kemarin",
      "Fawaz, terus parahnya ganteng, tinggi dan sebagainya. AI itu langsung bisa membuat seperti itu. Ketika seorang muslim... Itu juga saya bisa buat seorang Muslima berkrodong bajunya seperti ini ukurannya seperti-seperti ini, bisa. Ya mungkin seperti itu ya pemikirannya segitu. Layla Ahmed bahasanya ketika ketika apa? Saya itu perlu diperhatikan agar bisa membuat",
      "masukkan ke agama Islam mungkin seperti itu saya mohon maaf ngapain penyampaiannya seperti ini karena sejujurnya saya orang tongkrongan mas Rizal gak ada suaranya",
      "Hai Rizal gak ada suaranya hai hai",
      "Ini sesi apa ini, Mas? Mas Rizal belum ada suaranya. Oh, saya berisau. Suaranya tidak kedengaran.",
      "Oh mungkin bisa telingat jemas Riza loge boleh monggo Mas Roy buat everyone Boleh",
      "Pokok yang pertama Aminah Wadud, bahwasannya kata pemateri. Aminnah Wadуд itu menafsirkan Al-Quran menggunakan landasan berfikir hermenetika. Dia menganggap bahwasanya laki-laki dan perempuan itu egaliter setara seperti itu. Maka ulama' yang dulu penafsiran nya itu cenderung memarjinalkan perembukan",
      "sana itu memiliki sentimen terhadap orang-orang muslim dengan atribut hijab itu sendiri. Maka makna hijab di tafsirkan ulang juga, dengan alasan bahwasanya orang- orang non islam disana itu mempunyai sikap yang sentiment karena atribu hijab",
      "keadilan, jagasan oleh Hamina Wadud tadi tentang hijab Laila Ahmed saya bertanya oke siap mas Hamza pertanyaannya bisa disampaikan langsung oh iya singkat aja ya yang tadi yang terkait tokoh pemikiran dari Mesir kemudian belajar di Amerika itu sebangsi pemikirannya sejauh berapa",
      "berpengaruh kemudian di Mesir. Tadi kan dia banyak mengkritik pemikiran yang ada di Mesire. Setelah mereka meluarkan gagasan-gagasan yang tadi, sejauh mana kemudikan gagasan tersebut berpngaruh di tanah Mesir terse but? Itu saja. Oke baik, terima kasih atas pertanyaannya dari audiens Mas Hamzah bahwasannya seberapa jauh pengaruh dari gagasan itu",
      "itu, dagasannya siapa? Lili Ahmed ya. Ada pemaknaan hijab itu sendiri. Ini pertanyaan ditujukan kepada presenter yang ketiga Mas Fawaz Oke sebelum dijawab satu pertanyaian lagi di termin pertama kami persilahkan kepada audiens yang ingin bertanya Anggol satu pertanyaan lagi nanti setelah ini bisa dijawabi",
      "menggapi boleh nggak ini moderator eh kalau boleh-boleh tanya dulu apa pertanyaan dulu ya Monggo pertanyaannya dulu ah pertaik pertanyaanku nanti setelah pertanyaanan Kalau ada jawab jawaban dulu ya Setelah Pertanyaan dijawab dulu Nanti setela dijawak dari dua pertanyaani itu maka kami persilahkan memberikan waktu apabila temen-temen audiens ada tambahan atau apa gitu opini Monggo Pertanyakan kedua",
      "Mas Kapabin. Izin bertanya, Mbak Dato'a? Oke, monggo. Assalamu'alaikum warahmatullahi wabarakatuh.",
      "Waalaikumsalam warahmatullahi wabarakatuh.",
      "Kalau ada di bagian mana dan kalau... Terus juga titik bedanya di mana sih? Dan pengaruh terhadap gagasan mereka lebih pengaruhan yang mana antara Amin Adud dan Layla Ahmed itu. Mungkin nyambung ke pertanyaan Kang Hamzah itu, lebih pengarah dari kedua ini yang lebih pengarak yang mana gitu.",
      "itu dari saya. Assalamualaikum warahmatullahi wabarakatuh.",
      "Kemudian poin kedua dari pertanyaan Mas Kayang tadi hampir sama dengan pertanyaannya pertama dari Mas Hamzah. Yaitu sejauh mana pengaruhnya, pengaruhan pemahaman pembaharan seperti ini khususnya di ruang lingkup pembahan gender ya. Mungkin pertanyaanan pertama dulu bisa dijawab oleh Mas Fawaz, pertanyaaan dari Mas Amza. Masih ingat pertanyaanya Mas Fowaz?",
      "pertanyaan kedua aja tapi dari temen-temen pesan prasar presentasi yang lain dulu nanti nanti kami sudah bagi waktunya gitu-gitu apa pertanyaannya bertanya sejauh mana pengaruh rekonstruksi makna hijab itu sendiri di kalangan umat muslim khususnya di Mesir sendiri",
      "Sejujurnya ini ketika Laila Ahmed memaklain hijab itu seperti apa dengan kondisi, melihat kondisinya peperangan. Terus ketika di Amerika terus kembalikan lagi ke Mesir. Beliau lebih ke gampang lingkungannya. Saya yang baca ini beliau kurang mungkin saya yang kurang baca ya",
      "menyandarkan penafsiran itu beliau tidak bersandar saya mungkin kurang sayap ada yang lebih tahu cuman dampaknya secara mesir itu kan dulu ya itu tadi ketika dapat hidup dari berbagai aspek contohnya kayak tadi eh kalau muslim-muslim bahasanya yang memang bener katakanlah tentara memang bajunya seperti itu mereka ingin Mereka ingin untuk tuh seperti ini",
      "contoh-contoh seperti apa nilai juga seperti itu ketika kembali ke Mesir belum memaparkan seperti apa yang saya paparkan dimana di buku-buku nya beliau gitu dia punya beliau yang ini itu adatnya pemanahan hijab itu nah ini kita perlu kajian lagi Saya jujurnya takut jawab dan secara realitas",
      "antara yang memang orang Lestari sendiri memakai hijab dan memaknai hijab seperti apa. Terus, orang-orang imigran maksudnya, orang yang ingin sekolah ke Al-Azhar kan banyak juga dari Timur Tengah bahkan dari Indonesia yang memang kulturnya juga berhijab. Jadi secara internal memang sudah ada. Sebelumnya memang punya hijab, cuma ketika intelektualnya tinggi, orangnya mikir nggak usah pakai hijab ya biar aku bisa mungkin di barat lebih bisa perform.",
      "performa akan seperti itu cikal bakalnya memang ada nah lelah-lelahnya berpotensi seperti apa ya tadi memakai membesar langsung apa yang menyuruh tetap pakai hijab tapi tidak mungkin cepat ya tempatnya seperti itu dimusik ambilan sekarang banyak orang memakainya bijak orang luar juga extra-extra juga Iya cuma ini lagi buat kajian lagi makna hijab",
      "Kan daerah macam-macam. Sama Laila Ahmad juga, itu sih Mas Seyikur Rizal. Oke. Oke, terima kasih atas jawabannya. Coba sebelum beralih kepada pertanyaan yang kedua tadi di awal, saya mencoba mempersilahkan kepada penanya bagaimana kira-kira jawaban? Apa sudah menjawab inti poin dari pertanyaaan atau masih kurang?",
      "atau masih kurang silahkan ditanggapi sebentar dan masam baik terima kasih maksud gini ketika gagasan atau pikiran siapa sih apa nanti isnya kalau dalam istilah hermeneutika itu sebagai pencetus itu mempengaruhi suatu wilayah maka apa ya lambat laun di lingkungan itu juga akan berkembang pemikiran",
      "ketika Libanisme yang digaungkan oleh Atartuk, ketika masa-masa penggulingan Ottoman. Kita bisa lihat sampai sekarang bagaimana Libanismenya itu berkembang di Turki Apakah mungkin juga ketika si... Siapa namanya tadi? Leila Ahmed. Ketika balik ke Mesir",
      "apa yang terjadi? Apakah dia juga ikut mempengaruhi para-para otoritatif ulama, katakanlah ulama lah yang bisa menafsirkan atau tidak mungkin ketika di situ juga Al-Azhar. Apa jika dia terlibat di ranah penafsiran teks di Al- Azhar?",
      "Oke, sudah ya Mas Hamzah tanggapan? Oke. Baik. Sebentar kami mempersilahkan dulu kepada presenter pertama itu, Mas Sofi dan Mbak Asmi untuk menjawab pertanyaan kedua. Pertanyaannya itu korelasi keduanya itu dari tokoh keduarnya, dari gagasan keduanyan tentang gender. Itu kira-kira ada?",
      "ada atau tidak jika ada apa itu ya cek silakan jawab saya izin menjawab Oh iya eh tadi pertanyaannya adalah tentang korelasi pebikiran kedua tokoh untuk",
      "perempuan di ranah publiknya. Hanya saja mereka memiliki perbedaan di metode. Kalau misalkan Aminawadud, itu lebih terfokus kepada penafsiran teks ayat suci Al-Quran. Tapi Laila Ahmad, itu lagi kepada faktor historisnya dan hadis-hadis misoginis. Itu perbedaannya. Tapi untuk korelasinya, dua-duanya sama-sama",
      "perjuangkan atau mengangkat hak-hak perempuan di ranah publik. Kalau Aminah Wadud lebih kepada kesetaraan dan keadilan gender, sedangkan Laila Ahmad itu cenderung kepada pemaknaan hijab. Demikian. Mungkin untuk pengaruhnya bisa dilanjutkan oleh Mas Safi dan Mas Hawas untuk masing-masing tokoh.",
      "Silahkan ditambahi Mas Sofi, pertanyaan itu Mas Kayang. Korelasinya kalau ada tambahan? Halo? Halo. Oke, adakah tambahan jawaban dari Mas Sofie terkait dari pertanyaannya Mas Kayan?",
      "dan pikirannya itu. Korelasi dari kedua tokoh ini kenapa disandingkan? Kira-kira apa hubungannya? Pertanyaan dari Mas Kayan itu tadi. Untuk korelasi kedua toko antara Laila Ahmad sama dengan Aminah Wadud itu, sebenarnya sudah jelas dijelaskan oleh",
      "oleh dijawab oleh saudari asmi tadi mereka itu ya sama-sama menggunakan tentang gender itu terkait bahwa kesaraan antara laki dan perempuan mungkin bedanya itu dalam itu udah itu metode-metode penggalian apa yang betul dayang dipakai itu lebih kepada hermiotik kalau Aminah wadud sedangkan",
      "Mungkin itu sih yang sangat menonjol dari keduanya.",
      "Azmi itu, ya keduanya sama-sama berbicara tentang mengangkat hak atau kesetaraan gender itu dari kaum perempuan. Mengenai perbedaan-perbedaannya yang lebih detail itu kalau Aminah Wadud dia lebih cenderung kepada menafsirkan ayat-ayat menggunakan metode hermenitis seperti itu. Kalau Laila Ahmed dia lebih kepada sejarah hijab seperti itu",
      "Tapi mereka keduanya sama-sama dalam meranah kesetaraan gender, dalam merana mengangkat hak dan martabat kembar tua. Kira-kira itu sudah menjawab ya saya rasa. Ini saya persilakan kepada Pak Audian yang ingin menambahkan tadi. Mas Aziz silakan. Pak Modata. Oke gimana masih ada tanggapan?",
      "masih ada tangga tadi belum satu lagi yang pengaruh apa lebih pengaruhan antara menutupi atau Laila Ahmed bentuk pengalus seperti apa Apakah ada apakah ada Aminah amena komunitas Amina gitu atau atau ada apa gitu pengarunya Seperti apa bentuknya kalau dia ya gede-gede",
      "Relatif sih kan? Iya sih. Kalau Amin Awadud itu, sejujurnya ketika saya S1 itu sudah saya pelajari pemikirannya. Maksudnya lebih dikenal banyak orang. Sekarang juga di Indonesia Raya. Kalau yang Laila Ahmed ini beliau ketika di Mesir terus pindah ke mana tadi? Sebentar Mas Fawaz ya. Kami ambil lagi waktunya dulu.",
      "dan diambil inti-intinya saja. Pertanyaan itu, poin kedua, pengaruhnya sampai mana? Apa tolak ukurnya dari perjuangan gender dari dua tokoh ini? Kalau ada, monggo dijawab. Khususnya dari Mas Sofi dan Basma. Silahkan.",
      "Saya boleh ngomong dikit mas. Dikit aja ini, yang Lele Ahmed nih. Menggo-menggo, menggo dipersingkat ya? Iya Keilmuwan, ke ilmuwan beliau sama penulisan buku beliau. Saya dari paper saat itu saya sebutkan banyak banget terakhir memang 2011 buat buku cuman artikelnya semakin berkembang jaman terus buat tergantung gender Islam dan studi Islam",
      "itu sih tidak sebanyak Aminah wadud secara komunitas sekian",
      "Untuk pengaruhnya itu kepada masyarakat. Sebenarnya, tokoh Aminah Wadud dengan Layla Ahmad itu sendiri, dengan konsep gender yang mereka gagas, ini sebenarnya memiliki pengaruhan yang signifikan. Khususnya di kalangan para wanita itu, apalagi di Eropa. Jadi untuk mungkin daerah",
      "daerah Indonesia sendiri mungkin itu tidak begitu berpengaruh karena memiliki tempat atau wilayah yang berbeda seperti itu. Paham ya Muki maksudnya? Ya silakan, silakan Mbak Semi.",
      "Untuk tokoh Aminah Wadud, secara akademis beliau lebih berpengaruh dibanding Lela Ahmad. Buktinya dari penelusuran referensi. Karena setelah saya telusuri referensinya terkait Aminnah Wadu itu lebih banyak yang membahas dibandingkan Lela Ahmed. Karena dari segi topik, Aminna Wadid ini membahasa terkai keadilan sosial dan kesetaraan gender. Terlebih kalau kita lihat di Indonesia masih banyak tradisi-tradisi adat",
      "tradisi, adat atau budaya yang cenderung patriarkal. Banyak yang bilang begitu. Meskipun kalau menurut saya pribadi dalam Islam tidak ada. Tapi karena faktor-faktor budaya akhirnya hal-hal tersebut muncul dan ada teori ini yang akhirnya seakan membela mereka, seakan meninggikan derajat perempuan kembali seperti itu. Jadi kalau dari segi akademik",
      "Akademik Aminah Wadud lebih superior. Sudah ya? Sudah-sudah bisa dilanjut, sudah terjawab. Oke, sudah dijawab saya rasa. Silakan untuk audiens yang lain Pak Aziz untuk menambahkan kami persilahkan waktu dan kesempatannya.",
      "Saya nggak nanya moderator menambahkan dari presenter saja. Iya, iya. Tambahan ya. Ya tadi ada dikatakan pada pembahasan bahwa terdapat anggapan perempuan penyebab Adam turun dari surga. Anggapan itu sebenarnya tidak berasal dari Islam karena kalau kita cek di dalam Al-Quran itu nggak ada klaim seperti itu. Bahkan terkait dengan Adam dan Hawa",
      "Adam dan Hawa, dalam Al-Quran itu lebih banyak penyebutannya Adam. Dalam konteks turunnya dari surga. Tapi memang kalau di Bible ada memang ayatnya. Ada ayat yang menyatakan kesusahan kehamilan dan melahirkan bagi perempuan itu adalah akibat dari kesalahannya terkait buah itu memberikan pengaruh. Nah itu ada memang",
      "Nah itu ada memang ayatnya kalau di Bible. Tapi di dalam Islam, kalau dikatakan anggapan itu muncul dari Islam, maka nggak ada. Baik di dalam Al-Quran maupun hadis, nggak ada anggaban-anggapan seperti itu. Kemudian terkait kesetaraan dan keadilan, sebenarnya Islam memang memandang lelaki dan perempuan itu setara. Makanya banyak ayat-ayat mengenai itu tidak dibedakan suku",
      "sukunya, warna kulit baik di laki-laki perempuan itu tetap yang dipandang adalah takwanya kepada Allah hanya saja saya ingin memberikan tanggapan saya kepada bagaimana pemikiran Amina Wadud Amina wadud itu kesetaraan itu diberlakukan di berbagai hal tanpa batasan makanya dia mengenai imam sholat masuk ke dalam ranah itu karena kesetaran",
      "diberikan ke berbagai hal. Sedangkan dalam Islam itu memang betul dianggap setara, tapi kesetaraan itu dengan batasan. Batasan inilah yang membedakan orang beragama dan orang tidak beragrama. Kemudian mengenai keadilan, sebenarnya keadilannya adalah keadilaan baik sosial maupun hal lain, memang dikatakan tadi bahwa adil belum tentu setara. Sebagai contohnya misalnya,",
      "Contohnya misalnya, di dalam dunia kerja perempuan itu punya hak cuti haid dan juga punya hak putih melahirkan. Punya hak ruang laktasi dan lain sebagainya. Itu semua hak-hak yang didapat oleh perepuan untuk peremuan. Nah keadilan ini berkaitan dengan hak dan kewajiban itu menurut saya. Namun kalau kestaraan tadi adalah berkaiatannya betul yang dikatakan pemakalah",
      "dikatakan pemakalah berkaitan dengan peluang kesempatan jadi peluangan mau jadi astronot semua bisa mau jadi tukang semua bisa namun peluangi dan kesembatan tadi itu keberbagai hal sehingga ada masalah Imam tadi yang harusnya ada batasan disitu karena membedakan beragama dan tidak Hai karena agamakan juga batasan memberikan batasan demikian dari saya terima kasih",
      "terkait materi yang pertama. Bahwasanya kalau ada anggapan di dalam kelompok orang Islam yang mengatakan bahwasanya Adam itu turun gara-gara perempuan dengan landasan itu, sehingga kaum perembuan itu cenderung dibawah derajatnya dari laki-laki. Di Islam tidak ada. Tidak ada anggaplan seperti itu. Jadi ditekankan. Islam tidak mengatkan",
      "Maksudnya Adam turun gara-gara ini, gara perempuan? Bukan. Tapi memang kalau kita baca sedikit ya, Adam turunkan karena godaan iblis sebenarnya. Karena goda an iblisi. Tapi ini masih di kalangan akademis umumnya masih banyak perbincangan ya. Dengan keterbatasan waktu temen-temen bisa mencarinya sendiri. Oke sebelumnya, sebelum lebih lanjut,",
      "Dari dosen pengampu Ibu Istiadah sampai jam 16.30. Coba kira-kira gitu Ibu, ini sudah jam 1635. Mungkin diberi kesempatan untuk Ibu Jamilah dulu untuk closingnya. Oke boleh. Baik kami selaku moderator memberikan kesembatan waktu kepada Ibu Zamila untuk menambahkan.",
      "Untuk menambahkan, monggo dipersilakan waktu dan tempat. Halo Bu Jamila?",
      "Oke, kalau tidak ada berarti closing statementnya dari presenter saja. Silakan. Oke, baiklah. Silahkan kami berikan kesempatan kepada masing-masing presenter untuk menyampaikan opini atau closing statement dari ketiganya dengan bahasa yang sesingkat-singkatnya dengan tidak menghilangkan poin makna-makna yang penting.",
      "Silakan, disampaikan. Langsung yang pertama dari Mbak Azmi. Baik, terima kasih sebagai closing statement. Dari sini dapat kita pahami bahwasannya pemaka pepikiran",
      "dan juga Laila Ahmad. Keduanya sama-sama bertekad untuk... Speakernya didekatkan, Mbak. Oke baik, terima kasih. Dari kedua tokoh ini dapat kita pahami bahwasannya keduanya bertekat untuk memperjuangkan hak-hak wanita yang dilandasi oleh latar belakang mereka masing-masing di mana Aminah Wadud lebih terfokus kepada penafsiran",
      "Atau reinterpretasi kemudian untuk Lela Ahmad sendiri lebih terfokus kepada penelusuran secara historis. Terima kasih. Baik dilanjut langsung Mas Saffi.",
      "Menggo disampaikan tidak apa-apa jika dari Mas Sofi itu sepakat, ada yang setuju atau keseluruhannya setuju ataupun ada yang kontra silahkan disampaikannya closing statement.",
      "Dari apa yang beliau utarakan. Dari metode itu tuliskan seperti itu. Karena kenapa? Karena setelah diteliti lagi Aminah Wadud itu bukan seorang mufassir. Ketika kemudian beliau itu bukan seseorang mfassir, kenapa kemudiaan seenaknya menafsiri ayat ini dan kemudiang mengutarakan argumenya untuk kemudiahan menggaji ulang tek-tek",
      "ditafsir oleh bufasir itu sendiri karena hakikatnya eh tafsir itu orang menafsiri Alquran itu harus dengan syarat-syarat tertentu sehingga bisa kemudian melahirkan sebuah sebuahan tisari atau penafsiran al-qur'an itu sendiri itu yang bernama dan kemudia nge tidak sesuai dengan apa ya Apa apa yang sudah dituliskan apa-apa yang sudah dijelaskan oleh",
      "oleh metode lain yang itu berkenaan dengan penafsiran ayat Al-Quran itu sendiri. Mungkin kalau dari keduanya, setujunya saya yaitu mereka berdua itu menggaungkan bagaimana hak-hak perempuan itu bisa diangkat.",
      "perempuan yang utamanya sering ditindas oleh laki-laki itu bisa diangkat dan kemudian disetarakan. Nah, itu yang kemudahan menurut pandangan saya pribadi itu bisalah diambil dan diterapkan seperti itu. Yang mungkin hanya itu. Terima kasih atas dukungan Pak Menterator. Oke, langsung dilanjut Mas Bawas.",
      "Untuk Layla Amin sendiri, saya kurang setuju. Cuman saya sangat setuju sekali bahasanya bagaimana penelitian beliau secara historis penyampaian belia dalam memaknai suatu hal. Maka dari itu kenapa saya belajar untuk memahami memakai suatu hali kecil terlebih dahulu sebelum hal yang besar. Mungkin itu saja dari saya. Jangan menjustifikasi seseorang yang belum kita kenal.",
      "kita kembali. Itu saja. Sekian. Oke, baik. Terima kasih closing statement-nya dari para presenter ketiganya. Baik Ibu, itu sudah disampaikan oleh presenter. Selamat datang. Silakan diramaikan di chat ya. Saya kirimkan di Pijamilah YouTube-nya sudah jadi. Jadi langsung nanti kalau didiskusikan lebih lanjut akan",
      "akan lebih menarik di chat terlebih dahulu di Youtube. Silahkan digelas.",
      "Gimana Mas Wawas? Kalau mau teman-teman boleh foto, kalau nggak mau cek kan nggak apa-apa. Kami selaku moderator pada kesempatan diskusi kali ini menyampaikan banyak terima kasih kepada dosen pengampu Ibu Istiada dan Ibu Jamilah yang mengampu materi dan forum ini.",
      "Terima kasih kepada para audiens yang sudah mendengarkan presentasi kami. Selebihnya, kami selaku moderator mohon maaf yang sebesar-besarnya mewakili para presenter apabila ada penyampaian yang kurang menjawab atas pertanyaan itu bisa dilanjutkan di lain kesempatan. Oke sampai disini saja, kami akhiri. Terima Kasih"
    ]
  },
  {
    "file": "amina_mccloud/Indian Diaspora Wash DC_ Prof_ Aminah _McCloud_ Al_kOzBBgHozuU&pp=ygUVQW1pbmFoIE1jQ2xvdWQgIGlzbGFt_1742898606.opus",
    "text": [
      "Yeah, hello. As-salamu alaykum everyone. Welcome and just before we start the formal session because of this situation in India I have to make this announcement. We are all very much worried every house and family is affected there",
      "So we are planning on May 15 a relief fundraiser for UP and Delhi region. And the, we will be targeting only for oxygen cylinders medicine and doctors appointments so far that whatever fund is needed. We hope that you all will generously support us",
      "please let me know or other co-hosts personally about your commitment and we will let you know how to donate. So, please write in the chat or send personal emails to me. Let's go on to the next slide. It is today's event. Welcome Dr Amina.",
      "Dr. Amina Beverly-Aldee and the topic is course conversation on the status of Islam in America in continuing pandemic we have invited Dr. Bosam Siddiqi a very well known scholar in our region and part of our Indian diaspora group he's a director of South Asian desk he was he's",
      "of America. And he is going to do a formal introduction on this speaker, so welcome Dr. Mazum Saab. So thank you and Assalamu alaikum Professor Dr Aminah Beverly McLeod-Aldean it gives me immense pleasure",
      "Amina has been a professor emeritus at DePaul University and she has been the Professor of Islamic Studies in the Islamic studies department. Also, she has",
      "also written books on Islam in America, in general. In the area of religion history anthropology culture all those fields and Islam in america also islam in the international perspective",
      "a television program and she has been a Fulbright scholar. She has been the editor in chief of general of Islamic law and culture, and with before I introduce and I give the microphone to Professor Aldean, I would very briefly like to introduce that American history in Islam",
      "Islam in America is it dates back to 400 years at least. And the coming of Muslims in America took place before the Protestants came to America from Europe and one name that comes to mind",
      "and he was a scholar in his own right. And he had written his autobiography in Arabic, and that book has been translated by Professor Hasselby. He was a Scholar at Harvard Yale, and he taught at American University of Beirut.",
      "since that time the connection with Islam in America has been quite deep, especially when it comes to the African slaves who were brought to America and the history you all know different phases of how Islam on the part of the African immigrants",
      "prospered in America and how they sought refuge in Islam. And Dr. Amina is also, as I said, a special scholar in this field. And with this brief introduction, I would like to introduce and welcome very wholeheartedly in our midst to start his lecture.",
      "waiting to hear what she's going to say. Professor Adin. Oh, Salaam Alaikum and Ramadan Mubarak. I think it's only appropriate that we take a moment for prayers and thoughts about that part of the Muslim body in India which is really, really suffering now many",
      "Now, many of us were up all night for Muslim Network TV to see how we could pay a tribute but also to let people know what's going on over there because the news is kind of spotty here if you're listening for it in English. So I would ask that we take a moment for those of you who have relatives",
      "I have relatives and friends. I have acquaintances to pray.",
      "Okay. I was asked by Reza and I want to thank him, I don't know how he found me but um",
      "to be with you today. And it's also a little bit of a strain giving, I mean, reflecting on what's happening there. And yesterday on the BBC News, I was listening to a man lamenting that it was Ramadan and he couldn't fast because",
      "people and I kind of felt that anything I did was just so minimal given what the people there are having to deal with. But then on the other side, there were so many other people who were cooking and bringing food to the people who lined up trying to get loved ones some oxygen or some assistance",
      "I know it just makes what I have to talk about today seem a little secondary, so bear with me. And I thought about what I would talk about where is Islam in America and in talking about that, it became interesting to look back over say the last decade",
      "to see where Muslims are and what we're doing, how we fared. And I wanted to start with saying that during the beginning of the Trump era many Muslims liked what he was doing especially those with means because it increased their economic pockets",
      "pockets across the U.S., many immigrant and first generation in the U S Muslims were playing a necessary, an increasingly necessary part in the nation's economy. And we still do they had been and work continuing to bring family members here using",
      "of the immigration act many have become business uh pioneers entrepreneurs able to employ the less fortunate members in their ethnic communities um the thing that was interesting",
      "I hate calling it a subcontinent because it's really a continent all by itself. But how quickly Muslims began to establish themselves and make national brands which had not been here before, like edible arrangements for example. By 2018 physicians from Muslim cultures numbered already about 500,000",
      "About one fifth of the nation's physicians. Simultaneously, Muslims continue to live quietly contributing to the nation growth not getting much acknowledgement for that but doing it all the same. They, Muslims continued to contribute to the politics",
      "fiber and diversity, despite another rise in terrorism against Islam and Muslims. Muslims come from over 77 countries representing Sunni Shia and Sufi. In the 2008 election Muslim immigrants",
      "because Obama was Black and they didn't want to vote for him. Many more, however, voted because Republicans wooed them. I have an Indian friend who lives in Florida, and he was talking about how Republicans went out of their way to make sure that Muslims sat on various councils",
      "invited to things. So in one way, the Republicans made a seat for themselves in Muslim communities. By 2012 however, the tide turned probably because of what the Bush family did with regard",
      "to Muslims around the world. Researchers speculated that this was because Obama's immigration policies could continue to be favorable to Muslims, especially in the area of tech visas and healthcare visas. Though very questionable at the border, Obama did not straighten out the immigration policy at our southern border.",
      "For many white, Native and Black American Muslims however their social economic status remained the same. For blacks the caste system was still in play whether the president was black and Democrat or white and Republican. Also by 2018 dislikes between Black and Brown and immigrant American Muslims began",
      "began to turn distasteful and they continue to be although they're moving in a good direction today simultaneously there have been another rise in islamophobia or more accurately anti-muslim bias care the council on american islamic relations",
      "civil rights organization has consistently taken on the litigation of Muslim claims against employers, organizations and individuals who perpetrate violence or hate crimes against Muslims. More veiled Muslim women had made these claims than men perhaps because",
      "because they dressed as other Americans do. So you couldn't tell if the men were Muslim or not. Here is where one rift in the overall community has persisted, and we'll come back to that. African American Muslims are considered Black first and treated in society as Blacks",
      "Their religious perspective is known as diverse and thus it recedes into the background. Immigrant and immigrant descended Muslims are encountered by their appearance, clothing, accent,",
      "and terrorism usually globally. Unfortunately, any violence any Muslim does in the world is attributed by some Americans to Muslims here. Though Islam has been known as a faith community of Muslims, as was said earlier, in this country since its founding it has been an adversarial relationship",
      "from the often hostile relationships in Europe. It is important to remember that the Western imagination of Islam and Muslims, but that also includes Hindus, Christian Arabs, et cetera has been contentious for 15 centuries. It's embedded in the subconscious knowledge which has been schooled",
      "in school textbooks, and preachers sermons, and founding documents for all of America's history. The only way many Americans have been able to overcome it is through travel and personal experience. Also unfortunately these large scale experiences",
      "have taken the form of interreligious dialogue, which has been largely unsuccessful in deterring the actions of vandals, arsonists and perpetrators of violence. Rather than participation in neighborhood activities, music and local sports.",
      "The Trump administration ushered in increased economic activity, increased social polarization, increased number of hate crimes and increase public use of profanity. Despite this some Muslims expressed in a Pew Research Center report that random people",
      "people expressed support for them because they were Muslim. How they knew this is unknown, you have to have something on that says I'm Muslim. Recently with the tragedy that's unfolding in India many",
      "to know, they say I'm concerned what can I do and that's a plus. Among Muslims who approved of Trump's presidency despite his bans and general antipathy toward Muslims three-fourths said that they were pleased with the direction he was taking in the country",
      "In this survey, 60% of those Muslims say that they feel that media coverage of Muslims was unfair. In recent months under Biden obviously Muslim women have been pushed in commercials across mainstream TV for everyday products which shows a little bit of a shift",
      "Whereas the two Muslim congresswomen were unflatteringly portrayed during Republican efforts to unseat them during the Trump era, today portions of their agendas have been taken up and taken seriously by the Biden administration.",
      "put a spotlight on the Trump administration's ability to handle crisis. No matter whether you believe the pandemic, a hoax and the dead imaginary or not, the handling of information to protect the public was terribly unsuccessful by the end of March.",
      "last year, many cities were coming to terms with the necessity of dealing either with the pandemic or with the 24-hour coverage of a pandemic. Muslim physicians stamped down their fears and began to read everything they could",
      "hospitals which were turned virtually into ICUs. Few physicians had spent much time in the ICU prior to this with its overwhelming demands. Now all hands were expected to be on deck from the physician to the janitor. Care of the Muslim patient was not a specialty",
      "a specialty any longer. As whichever physician was on call, was the physician available? Some Muslim patients died without family or clergy as this continues to happen today. For a time bodies were just put in refrigerated carts",
      "homes were full and we're seeing another replica of that today without the refrigerator trucks. Ramadan began in the last week of April last year, and another panic set in what happens when usual practices are absent? Well, zoom came to take over because",
      "And it answers some questions, but it barely fed the souls already begging to be fed as they were starved for company in prayers and meals. No Hajj. And I think Hajj is postponed this year too.",
      "except for a few that live right there in Saudi Arabia. Imams, mental health workers and community leaders stamp down their fears retooled and zoomed to give regular talks seminars classes and of course Juma to lift spirits",
      "and provide outside contacts. The spiritual and mental toll on Muslim families, as with the rest of the nation was is continues to be deep. Both spiritual and Mental Health Therapy sessions were on Zoom.",
      "and psychologists is unfortunately tiny, too small to handle the attempted suicides, anxieties, and depressions. And they still are happening. We have clusters that many of us who research are trying to look at today. Few imams were also trained as mental health care workers",
      "This is something for us to think about for the future. This situation continues as few Muslims, regardless of their ethnicity are going into therapy. Here in Chicago I'm in Chicago, the waiting list for the Khalil Center which is one of the few mental health facilities and it's not really a facility",
      "facility is virtually over 400 as of yesterday. By the end of May, George Floyd was murdered by a policeman putting his knee on his neck for over nine minutes. Muslims were involved because the owner of the store that called the police",
      "And that owner insisted police were called. Protests broke out, starting from the store and branched out into the world with video. For Muslims, that another immigrant family made its living off Black neighborhoods caused a lot of angst.",
      "People in that particular neighborhood, in Minneapolis knew each other. This owner called the police even after one of the employees volunteered $20 from his pay. From Chicago members of Eman and I don't know if you in Washington know about Eman can you say yes or no so we can make this a little bit",
      "make this a little bit of conversation here, went to Minneapolis to speak with a number of immigrant store owners in Black communities. All refuse any negotiation. While we have been intent on interreligious dialogue",
      "fairly sane. We have not even had inter-religious dialogue with those who wish to do us harm, and we've had very little intra-religious dialogue. As COVID raged on so did more murders and protests. Muslim organizations their editorial board",
      "The editorial boards and their writers condemned it in print, which has become a habit. And I know that there's some journalists here with us today. You can condemn yourself out of relevancy if everything that happens is bad. I condemn, I condemn but you don't do. Muslim college students however",
      "join the protesters to the chagrin of many of their families who wish to just continue a kind of quiet presence, not realizing it's this group today. It'll be you tomorrow because Trump's administration has stoked a kind native tendency that in this country is hard to quell",
      "Some Muslim cultures, as you well know extol whiteness. I've looked at the videos, I have laughed and I have to admit I've been laughing at them. And I've",
      "And I know historically where it comes from. But in this country, it belies and goes against what we understand to be a Muslim woman. It's a kind of conversation that we must have in order to be successful as Muslims",
      "good progressive citizens of this country. Many organizations, and I don't know if you've heard of Muslim Arc, but Muslim Arc is a Muslim anti-racist collaboration. And what they do is they give workshops on how to recognize our own implicit bias",
      "And all of us have implicit bias. Racism, anti-whatever bias doesn't just exist in one group of people. All of us a little taste of it. Some of the organizations actually fought amongst themselves over things like we don't want to be known as supporting Black Lives Matter.",
      "matter well all of us are reading the quran we're praying every day and if we don't stand for justice anywhere there's a need to take a stand then we won't stand in for justice uh and i think that is important also for us to have a conversation about this afternoon but these groups",
      "two organizations, one in Texas and one here in Chicago. They fought over having others see them as supporters of Black Lives Matter. And nobody wants to be thought of as a racist. It's just anti something or the other.",
      "I'm a firm believer that a lot of it, it comes out in conscious ways. But a lot the deeply held things are very unconscious. As both COVID and protests continued into 2020, the summer of 2020 we missed an opportunity to act as mediators.",
      "had moved to be predominant in spaces of learning. And I, for one and I don't see many women on this call but I for one was cheering that there were women whose classes I could attend. I could benefit from a world of knowledge. I was really, really cheering it on. Other Muslim women began taking their classes almost",
      "almost as a preference. Women had an opportunity, those who had young kids to put them down or just send them off to do their remote learning all kinds of good things were happening even though we hated our quarantine. Women chaplains came into the mainstream and again women turned",
      "But as you can see, there are some things that are popping up in this particular Western diaspora that are new and Islamic thought. Chaplaincy is new to Islamic thought the fact that you could have men and women chaplains and are they also emaps? Women began to call themselves ustada",
      "this that or the other nobody knew no more than they knew from amounts what their credentials were but they were in various places representing all of us covet continued to hang around keeping many schools and workplaces empty i fortunately",
      "able to sit back and watch this, and thank Allah that I'm not still teaching anything anywhere. And it's been interesting. Inner City Muslims continued the food pantries. Muslims themselves learned and are in the process of learning",
      "the world, not just yourselves but the world. It can't be although today India is on our plates and we must pay it attention tomorrow it'll be another place and we",
      "not leave them, but to come out of them to see the world around us. And that is important and I would like the flyer that preceded my talk if you could just send that to me I'd appreciate it so I can pass it along. But we have to come",
      "work to change societies for the better we can't do that if we only treat those in our group uh one of the things we're pushing additionally um and i'm gonna ask um razi to come with me on muslim network tv is it's important muslim",
      "Muslim Network TV is the only TV station run by Muslims here in the United States. We're trying to cover a lot, I am praying along with others that we survive but if Muslims don't support it, we won't. We report both on the world and on things happening here in The United States and Canada.",
      "It has been an interesting experience for me as we've tried to make the host on Muslim Network TV is diverse, as humanly possible. And we all have fights because everybody wants to push of course their agenda but in this place our tasks and I've looked at the quarantine pandemic as a reckoning",
      "And how we are able to deal with our reckoning is, I think one of the largest tests will have in our lifetimes. It's one thing to read in the Quran about Noah and prophet Luke and all of these people because we can put them in a past way behind us but when it is staring us in the face",
      "we handle it becomes important because that is what it is. With regard to, we have a couple of research groups and there's still very early yet to get all the surveys",
      "an interesting article. When, do you know what ISPU is? Yes, no? Razi, do",
      "research group, an Institute for Social and Policy Understanding. And although their research is not as good as it should be, they improve constantly every year. And they had begun, they have begun, it's still going on to do some research tests to look at what is the ethnic composition of Muslims?",
      "And one of the things they found was that although there are very few white Muslims, white American Muslims. What has happened in the last few years is that Arab Muslims have started to try to get themselves classified as white which is very interesting for white America who knows that they're not white because they don't have quote unquote European",
      "heritage. So it's an interesting kind of thing I can get by the caste system because I will say I'm white every time I get to check a box that says I'm White, I will check that box but you have a whole White population saying no you're not, you're Irish, you know Scottish, your ancestry does not lay in",
      "in those places. So while ISPU is fighting its way along, the Pew Research Center in Washington is steadily collecting statistics and Muslims have made it difficult because Native American Muslims,",
      "don't tend to have identifiably Muslim last names. So it's getting really touchy as they try to figure out how to count us and if there's anything we learn in western, about Western civilization is that it has come to rule the world because it counts things",
      "It counts things. It puts things in categories and we flow in that, you know as a former professor of Islamic studies teaching my students largely white American students about the Muslim world was most difficult because of geography for many",
      "Many of them, Pakistan is one country. India is another country. They do not lie anywhere near each other. Bangladesh could have been an Antarctica for all they knew. I mean, I became mostly a teacher of geography. Also the thing that in this me generation that is missing is empathy.",
      "The other morning on a prayer line in the African American community, one entire prayer talked about the body. And it talked about that if we didn't get concerned about that Indian part of our bodies and get as much money goods find out what who we could join where and how to do our",
      "to do our fair share for that part of our body, that is suffering now. Then we didn't deserve to be called Muslims. And it was very important because in all my years as being Muslim I'd never heard a prayer like that and hopefully it will amount to something which is why I need that flyer",
      "end here to have a little conversation because I know that many of you have to get back. I don't know what is India's about nine, 10 hours ahead of us on the phone as people try to reach people, et cetera but to end here for conversation with you thank you very much for your attention and for inviting me",
      "As-salamu alaykum. Thank you very much, Professor. It was quite enlightening and quite challenging also for us to initiate this process of conversation where we are missing the train and what we are supposed to do and how much we are not doing so I think this opens really for the conversation that you have asked for",
      "challenge our audience to ask really tough questions or bold question, or at least express themselves what they intend to do to be in the mainstream of America as a Muslim, as a moral citizen, as model citizen and add as part of Qumma. So please Dr. Rafat Hussain take over for the",
      "for the question answer session okay thank you razivai um i don't see i have raised my hand yeah yeah go ahead so uh fantastic uh connor's uh the lecture very uh very brief uh i was very impressed uh you know",
      "you know thank you for this is kind of question i think i will ask a question very personal but i think if you don't want to answer that's fine because I am born into a Muslim family and somewhere in this very southern part of India so what was the attracted view to Islam",
      "I think, well, I was not born into a Christian family. But looking as a first year college student around to see myself and at that time looked much like this time except there was not a pandemic but there was a pandemic of sort of violence",
      "looking to see myself and where I went to school, a large number of the men my class was the first class of women to live on campus. And there were huge African some South Asians student male student body almost all of whom are Muslim and listening to them try to",
      "to sort out what was happening in the Muslim world. It was the Biafran war, but it was also issues with what had happened after the partition of India. I, of course didn't know India had been partitioned and had never heard of Jinnah,",
      "sitting and listening to a young man read the Shikwat. And I said, oh these people are really on it you know? I mean it sounded like um the kind of lesson it didn't matter what your ethnicity was but the kind",
      "how many years ago that was. Thank you, it's great. Thank You Professor Raldin. So those who wanted to ask the question or want to engage in a conversation please raise your hand or put your request in chat box okay so now I see the next one. Nawab Siddiqui Saab please go ahead. Yeah um i think",
      "Muslims in America support black lives. However, they may be afraid to show it. So could you comment on that? Why? Because of the cultural backgrounds and we are afraid that we may be classified some ways and later be punished. But trust me,",
      "And if it came to, you know this unfortunately is a country where divide and conquer has always been the thing. And this is why I said that Muslims have missed an opportunity Islam brought in the luggage and in the hearts of Muslims",
      "are not going to be deterred by skin color, social economic class. We have a larger agenda here and just like our prophet had we stood against injustice loudly the voices who stand for injustice would have had to recede",
      "You know, I don't think you know in back in the day when African Americans and some Latinos and Native Americans fought to have and gave up their lives to have immigration policies change. So that people from other countries they weren't looking at whether they were Muslim or Hindu or anything could come here. They didn't stop",
      "out to think, well let me see what their religion is and oh you know I might get hurt. But it was a necessity to have the diversity that led many in many ethnic communities come here. Thank you Professor Aldean so next person is Muazzam Siddiqi after that Pratap Behrasab. Muazzamsa please go ahead unmute yourself.",
      "Thank you, Sister Amina. I am so grateful that you pointed out some of the basic problems that we have especially, I mean the South Asian Muslims because of our background. You know India has the most ancient caste system in the world and one",
      "that you find ever in any society. So unfortunately, Indian Muslims are they grew up in that environment and in their subconscious this feeling of if I want to use the word racism so we have this unconscious which is very much contrary",
      "the basic teachings of Islam to the message of Quran. And it is about time that we move forward and stretch our hand toward African American Muslim friends, and the society in general of African Americans. And hopefully we do not pass this on to our children.",
      "hopeful that our next generation will be free of this ingrained racism within ourselves. And I'm so grateful and there are some organizations in the Chicago area, as you pointed out, there are Muslim women involved in that and all over the United States, there",
      "of and you are also cooperating with them and participating in their activities well i would like to see more participate you know I have learned the most about Islam from women Indian women Arab women Chinese women Muslim women I have",
      "learning how to cook food from various regions, how do you appreciate what they value and to add it to my list of things that I value. How to raise children? You know all of those things become important I think. Here in California one group",
      "I'm trying my best to support because I don't want to see them disappear as Muslim ARC. Because it's an anti-racist collaborative group and what they're working on doing is to get to that nitty gritty of the majority population for whom we seem to pose a threat.",
      "They're not sure what the threat is. But in Sunday school, they learn that Islam is here to kill Christianity. That Muslims are terrorists and we want to take over. So combating those people, not the ones at inter-religious dialogue but combatting where",
      "where the real threat lies is some of the work of also mark. We have a huge problem, I mentioned it earlier, I also sit on the board at Eman and we fight so much on many different levels one of the great things about Eman is it represents",
      "the Muslim diversity that there is. I think that many of the young people, and I think you're right, they are not like you. Some of them are but many of them aren't like their parents much to the parent's chagrin and I'm going to disinherit you and do a whole bunch of other things",
      "And a lot of the kids have said, well take your money and I'll see you later. Oh, I've learned to listen to music that I did not think I would be listening to at my age. You know, I'm listening to their spoken word there they're doing a kind of cultural fusion that is, I mean it's invigorating.",
      "They have aspirations to sit on city councils, should be older people. To get in state Congress and US Congress. They're doing some very interesting things. We also still have an older crowd who doesn't want to let go as if we haven't taught our kids enough.",
      "you know, and we don't trust them. So we don' t want to let go. We don't want to support their vision which is going to be different than ours has been but it's gonna be foundationally what ours has",
      "on Critical Talk, he is gonna be a physicist but he's also a chef. He's 15! He was in the program and you can look at it on Muslim Network TV teaching about the spices and how they're good for this in your health that in your house and cooking his heart out. But I know that he's going to be a physicists. You know? Thank you, Prof.",
      "or you wanted to say more no it's okay thank you uh mr pratap beira please unmute yourself yeah thank you i have a very even small question it is rather a curiosity",
      "ethnicity one side and religion or religiosity the other side so in some cases we see a community diverse heterogeneous in terms of ethnicity but singular religion or faith system",
      "and opposite situation is also there. So, you know the permutations and combinations vary from place to place. Somewhere it is ethnically diverse somewhere it is system wise diverse.",
      "are very few cases where ethnicity is singular and the caste system also singular. Those are exceptional cases. Otherwise, at least one side is diverse and heterogeneous that is the most case as I perceive across societies, across different countries nations. So in such a situation",
      "this heterogeneity and because the way it has been problematized, protected and mishandled we have been witnessing so many social problems. It is killing the society. There is some danger",
      "because of mishandling. That is my assumption. So, my curiosity question is that how this ethnicity or ethnic diversity can follow or be subservient to the religious tenets? The religious tenet of a faith or many faiths and I believe",
      "And I believe religions, the spiritualities they have many things to serve humanity. So those tenets how should they manifest and how these ethnic diversities which are coming on the sacred ways of the faith systems, they are really sabotaging",
      "sabotaging the social role faith system is supposed to play. So there are propaganda about a religion, this or that those people who know they can tell it better but I see often there is misrepresentation and thereby the ethnic diversity instead of learning from a system, a faith system",
      "you know, the opposite consequences are happening. So how do we prevent this? One thing that you were talking about is inter-religion dialogue that I underlined inter religion, inter religious dialogue but then I want more of it. Thank you Pratap. So Professor Aldin, you got it he's talking about",
      "the ethnicity and the monolith or religion. And there are different ethnic background with the same religion, and how do you reconcile? Well I think what you all have done here by inviting different people is one sure",
      "sure way to hear different opinions but i think we must have um what we must more frequent non-emergency conversations do you know what i mean we just gotta talk more often when it is not",
      "It is not critical because conversations only cease to be sensitive when you talk about them all the time and you find different ways to approach them. Okay, thank you professor. Sayeda sends up.",
      "Unmute yourself, please. Thank you very much. It was really a pleasure. I really enjoyed and you raised a lot of good ideas and questions as well. And let me clarify one thing that our South Asian association with the white is perhaps lies in this fact",
      "the fact that a fair complexion has been generally it is favored all over the world perhaps but especially in India this is a craze. I mean, so perhaps what I heard is that whitening cream is being used in India perhaps equal to be all over",
      "personally and a lot of my friends when they see a black Muslim, we really feel much better with him than a white Muslim because somehow he looks like will be more faithful to the religion than him. This is an impression I don't know it's right or not so my statement is that we do not",
      "the fair complexion is better than dark completion uh you know feeling which i think it is a very very uh and i think this to a bitter part of the world as well like arabs also think that they are white",
      "comment on that. And the second thing I wanted to mention, our association with Trump, I heard from other people, I don't like him myself but they said that Trump did not invade or support terrorist activities to topple existing governments. Obama did, both Bushes did and Reagan did and all of that.",
      "and all that. So, uh, that was one reason I heard so well. I would like you to comment on that as well. Thank you. Well, I think that, you know, America's political environment is no more complicated than anybody else's but",
      "that most of the people in the world are of color. And those who have perpetrated whiteness as a standard are the minority. And that makes sense. You know, I don't want to be a minority. I want you all to aspire to be like me and I'll kill you if you don't. The other thing is, I can say,",
      "support Mr. Trump, even if it wasn't in their own best interest? Because even if Trump were president today he could not have stayed out of other countries' businesses for long. Do you see what I'm saying? Because we depend on those other countries",
      "the issues of ethnicity and religion have become what they call foils for ignoring some more important issues like poverty, homelessness, starvation, loss of potable water. All those things are far more important to handle than not",
      "that not so much religion, but ethnicity. I was watching a program in India the other day that talked about Zoroastrianism and how they've gotten so in their bubble that they're dying off. So now they're panicked. Oh my God, we made it a sin to marry somebody other than another Zoroaster. Now we got to take it back. All of those things",
      "things and overlooking the dire poverty, the economic imbalances in the world. You know is something wrong with that? So I think that the plays on focusing all of our attention on one thing and not on the other...I mean for example we got so focused",
      "that we didn't realize that in Virginia, they had a mock constitutional convention which would deport most of the Muslims in this country. They were moving to see how far they could float various amendments and which amendments they can take back. That was far more... I mean it got to work as well as it did",
      "it did because people were focused on an election and unable to focus on more than one thing at a time. Thank you. Next is Iram Gol, then Dr. Raziuddin. Unmute yourself, Iram. Thank You, Rafa. As-salamu alaykum. Wa-alaykum as-salāmu. As salamu wa-alaykumu, Mameena.",
      "i'm uh ma'am i did some research on um you can listen me now hello",
      "Hello? Okay, it's better. Go ahead. Yes. Ma'am I was saying that I did some research in my MPhil on Muslim organization in USA like ISNA, ICNA and Nation of Islam. And it was really an amazing experience to know the struggle of African Americans for their human rights in US society.",
      "In this situation, these organizations are working together or they are confined within their limits to cope with the situation that is prevailing nowadays in the world? Thank you. To my knowledge, ICNA and ISNA, well, they kind of work together on occasion but",
      "They also don't work with until it becomes something that they want the papers to report. I'm trying to remember a couple of conferences that I went to where they had groups for, no special spaces for Latino Muslims but because none of them were in the same group",
      "because none of them spoke Spanish, they didn't have a clue as to what was being said in those groups. So I don't think that the groups are actually working together. The other African-American Muslim communities outside of the nation may have a little bit more camaraderie",
      "camaraderie, not much with some of the immigrant organizations. Thank you, Professor Aldean and the last person is Dr. Razi Raziuddin and Abdul Jabbar Saab do you really have something very pressing because you raised your hand again then I will end up with Razi Uddin Saab please be brief yes so i think that",
      "So I think that regarding, we all came here at least I came here to this country 40 years ago through the prism of the US as a scientific technological prowess not for any social political understanding of this country. So we kind of drove that thing into our children as well",
      "it good in their studies i think that really the problem i think in terms of and then we come here we learn try to understand the cultural political uh dynamics of this the us just i just wanted to make make a comment that's it yeah thank you um i think muslims have covered that point go ahead dr razi rajiv din oh well",
      "any question that is surprising. You should ask one question and then I can go. No, no, go ahead. All right. I am fine now. Okay. So I think in since it is more in a conversational mode, I think what has to be acknowledged by Indian subcontinent Muslims here in America",
      "at least from the India, the Muslims who came from India they came from a plural society. They should have participated in the struggles here with the minorities and they did not that acknowledgement we should do. And slowly a lot of them I think in this decade",
      "I think one of my activist friend who is from Black Lives Matter, is right here. Mujahid Muhammad, I think he's still here. And so what I'm saying is that besides being more tuned to career and good profession and all those, there's a mindset of migrants. We are slowly coming out of our shell. It is really the idea",
      "it is really, uh, it was lacking from our part. Uh, it is not really a fear from whites or anybody because we were always in good shape here so we didn't suffer from any kind of complex. It was our more like selfish interest of focusing on our career and that slowly when",
      "they actually taught us back that you have to be more fuller participant in the society as most of them are. They are very much in league with all the issues of human rights, civil rights, Black Lives Matter, gender issues and we are learning a lot from them and adjusting with that",
      "think most of Muslims or non-Muslims from India are very much part of Black Lives Matter now. Still, maybe they're not tuned to go in the demonstration that much but also you can see a big number now at least since especially during the Trump era. But one contradiction is there, Muslims like coming here",
      "Indian subcontinent or Arabs and others, they do have these things in their DNA. This race thing because they either born are converted but they do this DNA the race DNA is there and that issue comes up and we should acknowledge very honestly Indians Muslims or non-Muslims alike",
      "their DNA the same nature, same thing. Perhaps Islam does a little better in that sense to take out that kind of biases but still we suffer from it and perhaps we should learn and become more better as participants or model citizens or activists. That's all I can say. And so with that I think we should end up",
      "up this thing, this event and before that we Faisal can you put the last slide for our next Saturday talk. Faisals if you are there.",
      "who is very well known for the Indian subcontinent audience, Professor Barbara Metcalfe. And she's the living embodiment of a scholarship on especially Indian Muslims, Indian sub-continent Muslims and she has done tremendous amount of work throughout her life.",
      "time is changed because she's going to do the event from California for her it was a little early so we are changing 12 rather than at 11 only one time for her because that will be 9 am for her. So, it will be at 12 pm noon and it will",
      "Islamic Scholarship in India of the Barrage and Dr. Mohsen Siddiqui will be giving the opening remarks so please join that and Dr Aldean I will send you the fundraiser, formal poster we'll get but this information also I will",
      "you can for this cause it is really badly needed any number of any dollar amount will be fine and it is totally geared for oxygen getting oxygen to patients and medicine and the doctors"
    ]
  },
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    "text": [
      "Hi, Reality Riffing. Welcome to the Immense Grace Binge Series. These are interviews that I have done in the past season, 2019-20, of great women from all over the world doing incredibly powerful esoteric and magical things.",
      "So I'm very excited to share with you some of these profound conversations.",
      "bringing a feminist viewpoint to reading the Quran and the holy prayers. And she has an incredible story, she is an American actually from close to where my family's from in Baltimore and her journey took her all around the world discovering",
      "of Islam within the feminist rhetoric. I hope you enjoy this incredible, incredible elder and wisdom keeper. Welcome back, immense grace. So excited to be joined by Dr. Amina Wadud who's the author of The Groundbreaking Quran and Woman Rewriting the Sacred Text from a Woman's Perspective",
      "women's reform in Islam. And I love that you describe yourself as a black senior non-binary American Muslim living in the South East Asia, it's a beautiful description so welcome thank you so much for being here. Thank you for having me and thank you So I'd love to just start what kind of led",
      "of background in terms of your journey here. I begin as I always began, in the name of Allah whose grace I seek in this and all other matters. Thank you so much for this opportunity. I love the engagement with the Divine Feminine across different traditions,",
      "Indeed, my own life path is one where I have been a loving and learning participant and devotee in three religious traditions. My father was a Methodist minister and I was raised with the God of love. In fact, my last name Wadud is an attribute of God that means loving. And when I was in the university,",
      "in a buddhist ashram and practiced buddhism for a year. And I still practice meditation daily now, but two years or so after that i felt calling to Islam and um as a consequence of reading the sacred text in only English my life course was set.",
      "are drawn about recovering and reclaiming the divine feminine through the Islamic sacred texts, and putting those into implementation in the context of history, culture, law, and spirituality. Wow. So I'd love to just... Obviously these are big strokes, broad strokes here but I think a lot of people especially",
      "tends to be not versed in some of the more mystical and very powerful teachings around Divine Feminine, in the Quran. And just around the kind of ecstatic in general. I would love to hear some of things that started to open your mind when you were studying and through writing these books. Yes well first of all I have to say a little bit about the challenges. As I said I fell in love with the Qur'an",
      "the Qur'an just reading it in English. And what I did was, um, I embarked on in-depth study of what's known as the prerequisite sciences or skills for, um... Quranic interpretation. I did that as part of my undergraduate sort of informally but when I joined graduate school, I specifically engaged in studying you know, just about the Qurʾān and",
      "more than one country and I finished the master's in a PhD, then I wrote my dissertation. And from that, I wrote a book which is now almost 30 years old. It's considered one of the groundbreaking texts for the creation of Islamic feminism. Wow! The challenge was finding an equal legacy of women's voices, women's ways of knowing",
      "the literature that had been generated around understanding this sacred text. There was no record until the 20th century, so that means we went for 1300 years missing the infusion, the necessary infusion of the divine feminine and masculine even in the way",
      "we, you know, use this text to model the way of life in Islam. So I was a part of the movement to reclaim the existing divine feminine voice by bringing it sort of out from behind the veil. Wow. And I'm sure you've met with some opposition doing that. Yes, and there's still some opposition now but as",
      "But as I approach my seven decades around the sun, I have decided that I will spend the rest of my time for those people who are interested in opening up even more dimensions of a sort of inclusive interpretation and practice. And not spend so much time trying to counter the naysayers because the world is full of light and dark.",
      "concentrate only on the dark i may not appreciate some of the divine beauty that's in the light so I'm just going to go for the light right now amazing thank you thank you for saying that i think in this time um you know i mean really it you only have so much time to do the work that you know you're here to do and if you don't focus on it then you know that that time",
      "can you give us a little bit of just a view of some of this the sacred feminine, you know these pieces that you've reclaimed recovered and discovered? Okay so Islam is a theist tradition. So that means it's focused on an ultimate reality called God in Arabic Allah which",
      "be the source of you know all creation and yet distinct from creation by being the creator uh and yet of course the way that we understand the sacred is through our own hearts our own experiences their own bodies um and so interestingly enough this same single god ed is represented or reflected in 99 attributes or names and these attributes are names",
      "names have both Jamal, which is feminine and Jalal, which has masculine characteristics. So you have 99 names that fits together to create a dynamic unity. And this dynamic unity is called Tawhid. I had been working with Tawhi as a paradigm for social justice equality in human dignity so thats an application of the spiritual perspective",
      "the spiritual perspective in the context of, as I said, law history politics culture. Yeah. But I am a devotee. I'm a person who has been blessed with positive experiences literally all over the world and in many sacred places at many sacred times. And so what I want to do is to be a part of the infusion of the reaffirmation",
      "of the Jema'a, the Divine Feminine because history has shown us that there's been a lot of attention given to the Jemak. So I want to bring them in harmony for the purpose of the result of that harmony which is peace and beauty but at this time I want emphasize more about the Divine feminine because I didn't feel I needed to do that earlier in my work",
      "you know, cisgendered female. But now I feel like something is missing even in the conversation about this dynamic unity and that is a divine feminine. We just need more of the care and the love, you know? Yeah. So I'm really, you",
      "my teacher who is Sikh, but he was a yogi and studied and taught very much about the sound. He said that the Quran has in it when it's spoken and chanted and sung, it can totally enlighten the being who's doing it. It has those codes in it. I'm just curious about your perspective on that, your experience.",
      "Yes, it's very interesting because the Qur'an is sort of the center of Islam in a sense that when the revelation first came to the Prophet he was considered unlettered. That means that he didn't read and write in the sense which you pick up a book. He could maybe do some rudimentary things. So all of a sudden he gets this download of this thing that he hears",
      "And he hears it, you know, in the tradition we believe he hears from the Archangel Gabriel. He hears it and when he hears that is a calling that asks him to speak through what we call kira'a, the recitation or reading. He's like well I can't read, I can read. He said this several times and eventually he was pressured so much to just let go",
      "of the Qur'an came through and that experience continued for a period of 23 years. What's fascinating about it is when you read what it was that came through, the logic, the beauty, the motivation, the inspiration, the dynamism of it also speaks to you. And over the course of Muslim history we have re-encoded",
      "multiple forms. One of the first features of Islamic art was calligraphy, and it was based on simply taking the letters from the Qur'an in Arabic and formulating them for a beautiful pictorial. But the other, of course as you mentioned is the recitation that there, the rhythm, some parts of the Qurr'an are very poetic literally with rhyme schemes at the end",
      "parallel each other in certain interesting forms so that the aural aesthetic, the visual aesthetic is supposed to go along with the spiritual aesthetic as well. Wow. So and have you I mean has it been your experience when you're praying, when you are reciting that this opens up certain kind of aspects of your own consciousness? Have you had any kind of mystical experiences?",
      "experiences interesting combination of things that happen so first of all there is the recitation not only a good one but also we have over the you know fourteen hundred forty years of historical Islam we've created certain formulas like mantras yeah certain things that get to be repeated",
      "And then these things are put into different patterns. La ilaha illallah, la ilaha ilallah, and this is commonly known as zikr.",
      "get a rhythm of sound that there are also certain moves that can go with it. So simple moves, sort of you know you go into the universal circle you know sort of with your body four directions and that kind of thing right or you sit quietly and just let it resonate with you as you do the repetitions you know with your eyes closed or you stand in the group so there are actually sort",
      "interestingly enough, comes from the word zikr itself which means remember. In other words at a certain time everything in the creation was at one with its creator or with the divine and we chose, we agreed to take this material form, this 3D form on this earth separated as we are or as it appears sometimes",
      "know the divine when really we are not. We chose this and we need to remember, we need return back to the place where we all came and the zikr is a formulaic kind of you know can be very simple it can be there very elaborate and very beautiful it's a formula of sound that is as I said also combined with the embodiment that we experience being on this earth. Wow",
      "um that of course i i find that very fascinating and so we're followers of sound sound yeah you can tell people they can google zicker you can either spell it z h i k r or d h i kr if you just google zikr you will get on spotify there's secret channels their stickers you know if you",
      "Where are there bridges that you found, that maybe Western women would be surprised about? So it's interesting. I truly believe that there is a universal transcendent truth and then there are emanations from that truth so they are truths, plural. In the context of the human community,",
      "come from one and we all return to one. And how do we visualize and affirm that oneness with an other? And being a black woman, you know, from the United States, being hijabi in the United states or certain parts of world where Islam is not a majority I have understood",
      "people can treat other people as if they are not a mirror of their own self or, you know, their own heart. And so the most fascinating part about working, you now again located in this body, cisgendered female body throughout the world, I've been to more than 60 countries and lived in six is in which ways do cultures traditions and communities",
      "affirm the oneness of all humanity when humanity is so radically, in fact aesthetically beautifully diverse complicated pluralistic. So gender is one of those factors and so is sexuality so is race so as language groups so is you know your differently abled bodies how do we create mechanisms for maintaining",
      "for maintaining the dignity of every human being when those human beings are so different. So as I said, gender is one of those aspects and in fact, I want to say that it was the doorway for me into understanding the entire phenomenon but I have to be honest that as a black woman, as a child growing up in America with black family members, I think intuitively race was my first entry",
      "And like the rest of the world, we were taken over by patriarchal articulations. And men centering themselves and their own devotional experiences assume that what they experience in the world is all there should be experienced. Right.",
      "women's lived realities, women's ways of knowing, women' s ways of being in the world, womens ways of participating in their relationship with the divine through this embodied location on the earth. And it just happens that the motivation in Islam for deep study was taken up and it was maintained but it was biased",
      "participate, especially as women are reproducers. In other words we have babies and want to take care of our babies or to be with our babies that the facility for us to participate was not equal in the history of Muslims although it was mandated equally both by the sacred text and by the Prophet himself upon him be peace. So what became necessary was to disentangle male discourse about the divine",
      "the divine from its projection as the only universal perspective on the divine and to open up the conversation so that we could have perspectives from uh you know all the 360 degrees of the circle uh so that when we look you know at the center the way home the way to our heart the way",
      "are looking at the divine. That's one reason why I say a kind of interfaith discourse with regard to the Divine Feminine is something really important to me right now. In other words, how are we even in traditions with sort of different kinds of orientations in the world? How are we each looking in that circle towards that singular Divine Truth, that singular unity and beauty? And so this was",
      "You know, I mean, I myself have only been a feminist for 10 years because politics of the terminology. Yeah. This was necessary in the context of Islam and Islamic discourse specifically with regard to gender because our text just like you know so many other texts written in human language had the privilege for men to interpret and put into implementation some of that didn't necessarily ring true with the highest truth of the unity",
      "the unity and the necessary dynamisms of inclusion. So we are working to create more of that now, and also to use it as part of policy and law because we still have aspects of Islamic law that are in practice in certain countries today. Yeah, yeah. And you're very actively working on in the political landscape, correct? I wouldn't say that I'm actively working",
      "But what I say is, as they said in feminism, the personal is political. Everything has a dimension of impact that will be challenged by certain dynamics of power on the ground. Yes.",
      "to represent the full dignity and quality of a muslim woman by performing in the role as imam. The imam is the one who stands in front, imama hum, in front of a collective prayer ritual our prayer ritual is deeply embodied standing vowing standing prostrating sitting back",
      "body ritual form of worship and devotion. And so you have to organize it or otherwise it's chaos, you know? And so in the organization of it again, the men have encoded a privileged position for themselves always at the front lines and women always in the back but assigning for themselves the singular possibility of performing as the one who stands",
      "orchestrate that whole performance by their own performance. And it's, you know, certain parts of it are out loud. So when the practice came down to us over a thousand years later people believed that only men could be there and that the nine lines had to necessarily be separated by gender, men in the front women in the back or downstairs or upstairs.",
      "are reclaiming something, again that was a legacy from even the time of the prophet. We are reclaimming the quality of performance by making it accessible to everyone and to share the role of orchestrating it not because the one in the front who's leading the prayer is closer to God. God is not spatial in that sense but rather the one",
      "community when community is participating together in those acts of devotion and that this can be either male or female able-bodied or differently bodied we are just a part of an articulation where we want to make that present and known and not just a sort of kind of ephemeral idea you know so i had to challenge myself because again as i said i prefer solitary worship yeah but i had",
      "say is political in as much as it says legitimacy, authority rests in the one who leads the prayer not because they are special or closer to God but because they take that responsibility for the community through themselves and through their own bodies. Wow and how has that been for you? Well again it was a challenge my first experience",
      "in South Africa, interestingly enough. And they were celebrating the end of apartheid. Nelson Mandela had been president for 100 days and they were the Muslim communities there are again a minority but they were really concerned that class, that is economics and agenda be on the agenda as well as race. So they have begun to experiment with women's leadership",
      "in certain aspects of the devotion. So they invited me and it was so, I don't know, so awesome that I resisted from then on for the next 11 years. And yet I studied and also did deep introspection and that kind of thing. And so 11 years later when I was invited to lead a performance that was intentionally done as a public display of the performance of women in these roles",
      "women in these roles in 2005, uh, in New York. Uh, which went viral with viral didn't exist at the time, uh... Yeah....which went viral. I was ready because I had taken that 11 years from my first experience to you know, this-this second time that I agreed. I'd been asked in the interim but I had said no, I wasn't ready to do it again. Um, but when I was",
      "for me because I had done my time with my Lord. I had spent my time in introspection and I understood, as I mentioned to you just a moment ago, that I am not closer to God because I'm in the position of imam. Each one of us are humble before God and through us we are supposed to manifest God-like qualities on the earth and with regard to each other. And so that was what that 11 years was for me.",
      "for me to clean my heart from the ego that naturally wants to get attached to these kinds of things, especially when they are groundbreaking. So I had to work on that and I had also work on as I said before, my preference is for solitary worship so I had come out of my own comfort zone in Shell in order to be a part of community conversation",
      "And so it's been fascinating because from these two events and everything that happens in communities in between, we have seen the burgeoning of women's mosque initiatives globally. Women are saying you know what let's not wait, let's just create this space where we can be considered as full devotees.",
      "So this is something that's happened in the last 25 years which 25 years ago I couldn't see it and a lot of other people couldn't See it and few people had a vision of its possibility. Well now that possibility is manifest It's a reality and hopefully there will be more yeah, I believe there will because That's that's the era we're headed into we are in but it's it's you know, it's showing itself more and more right now",
      "interfaith collective component of it. In other words, the deep sharing of traditions for the ways in which those traditions again help to polish the heart to purify our role in these bodies as stewards on this planet and stewards not just of the planet but she definitely needs some support right now especially",
      "towards the sacred journey of life that returns us to our divine source. It's not exclusive to Islam, it's not unique in Islam and yet for some people staying an individual faith silos is the only way they can maintain the integrity of their own faith. I live in Indonesia and Indonesia although it is Muslim majority has one of the most dynamic affirmations",
      "of a spiritual diversity. In fact, it's encoded in their constitution under the name Pantishila which means sort of multi-faith and I love this aspect because my Christian neighbors or my Hindu neighbors or Buddhist neighbors when I'm at a sacred temple like Bonobidor, I am still Muslim, I instill who I am and I'm still in awe and respect",
      "affirmed in that sacred space from the devotees of that space. And that's something that's very easy to do in Indonesia, and it's not easy to",
      "and um islam as they kind of grew in the weaving of a culture in the civilization it's very beautiful and we're the tropics so uh we have this pro profundity of growth you know you have to cut things back when you live in the tropic not like other places where you have like aggressively trying to make things grow right here you have kind of you know trim them back because",
      "you know, life for the entire universe. So it's something here, you know this is why this is my favorite country and I'm blessed to live here. It's something that...I think having the choice, that is I have the mobility, I have resources, I'm retired, I had the capability of coming here to exercise something that helps to promote the health and well-being of your entire self",
      "your spirit i think it's something that you know i can now selfishly do i raise five children they're adults i have seven grandchildren wow they're amazing um and i you know other than the coronavirus i try to see them every year yes um and they also travel so some will come here but you know the idea that i would be able to live in a place that helps to nurture",
      "in a three-dimensional reality um that's something that you know in a way i could say i was aspiring for it my whole life and now that i'm retired i just i just get to enjoy it why not why not we're this weekend we're spending some time with some of the mystical traditions and poetics of sufism but you know connected obviously as the uh",
      "your experience, if any with some of these kind of enlightened poetics of Islam and the embodiment thereof? Yes. So the esoteric or the Gnostic articulation of Islam depending on whose thoughts you are following they stem from the Prophet's own spiritual experiences and his immediate community particularly his son-in-law Ali upon them both be peace",
      "And from that grew what we call a silsila. I actually like the word in Arabic because it means where, you know, if you give something, someone receives it in a chain and when they receive it, they have it to give. Right? So we have a silisila that goes from the prophet or from Ali or from other figures across history.",
      "or Allah and all of us return to God or Allah. But some of us are impatient to have that at one minute with the law while we're here on the earth. So Sufis are considered spiritually impatient, want to live in the horizon of a divine breath for everything made until we die. And so the traditions have developed over the course of the 1400 years of Islam.",
      "where Sufi tradition and my teacher has, the simsila comes from his teacher and et cetera. And so there are so many interesting formulas and manifestations of this, so many people, the poetry not only of Kabir but also of Rumi, the lessons of love that we get from Rabi al-Adawiyya one of the most famous Muslim women, Sufi saints",
      "are about this yearning for this continual at one minute and the pains of the separation from our source. And what we have to do with each other, and with our heart in order to find little droplets of that shining upon us and from its shine on us to shine it out to others. This is a whole aesthetics of Islamic mysticism which is very much alive today",
      "alive today and very much in manifestation you know once again across different cultures with certain similarities and certain distinctions that makes it you know just all the more fascinating really it really thank you so much i just i want to just say that i received such a transmission of your devotion just when you speak and i could listen to you forever um thank you",
      "just really profound thank you for having me thank you and are you what's your next project are you working on a book right now or are you, what's happening? Actually I am an analog woman in the digital age this sort of grainy camera kind of let you know that i'm not quite there yet but um I had an interesting vision a couple years ago",
      "which I'm a person, again, I work in silos. My prayer and meditation room is separate from my office, it's separate from bedroom, you know? And I need these little separate silos of energy but I went into my office in the middle of the night and I sort of typed it all out and it's really just about what we're talking about really except in a digital version so I am launching more and more programs, individual blogs, videos",
      "videos, sharing of things like updating my altar with the new moon and stuff. I'm going to do more and more of The Divine Feminine in Islam online. And I've started with a Patreon page at the moment it's very small anybody is welcome to join just you know the lady Imam where I get to avoid the trolls and the naysayers because as I said I don't want to give any more energy to that. Yes. There are so many ways",
      "we can connect with other human beings who are open to that connection and to whom we are open, that you know I just want to... everything is love. Everything is life. Yet we're operating in the world with hateful darkness so I'm doing more and more of that online. I have to get assistance for younger people who understand things and you know just a box on the road to do the technology but it is starting",
      "And, you know, I got a little bit going on in YouTube and a little big going on, you different forums. But I want to bring it together under one umbrella. And somebody has just volunteered to help me sort of create a web page where I can join my Patreon and my Twitter and my Facebook and just have a go at meeting audiences where there are different places in the world. For example, I don't know where you are physically located. I forgot to ask, where are you actually in the",
      "We're in Venice Beach, California. Oh, okay. Yeah. That's my home state. Yeah, yeah. But we have the women all around the world who are watching right now because we're very global. That is the beauty of the technology today. Yes. And that is that you can reach out and touch even when you must observe social distancing. So I'm enjoying the journey. I'm confounded tremendously",
      "tremendously lots of mistakes, lots of frustrations because it is a new way of being in the world. It is. I really see it as helpful. Um, I really seen it as one of the gifts of, uh, you know, to us as human kind to continue to affirm the reality of our oneness and our onness with source and our planet. So yeah, I'm just trying to do more of that in the areas where I have some,",
      "Well, it's so important. And watch out when you tell me these kinds of things because I'm a real stage mom around this stuff. So I'm going to do what I can to push you to do it. And we have lots of resources too. But it's",
      "the lady, the lady. The Lady Imam. So it's www.patreon.com slash theladyimam all one word no underscore that's my Twitter I'm sorry that's what's the word? Instagram somewhere in there eventually according to the person who is most recently helping me everybody will go to my page instead of going to a Wikipedia page",
      "Wikipedia page that was created with interesting some truth and some not true. Okay, so you know if you just Google the lady Imam or my name it'll come up somewhere. Okay great. You're welcome really. Thank you. Anyone who wants to join. Thank You and we'll add this to... Also support my work. Yeah yeah it's so beautiful and we will make sure we add all of the links to this interview as well. Thankyou for your time bless you and bless the work that you are doing and I hope to connect with you again soon.",
      "Thank you. Stay in the light. We hope that your hearts are warmed each day, stay safe, Black Lives Matter. Hope to see you again. Thank you, take care.",
      "the conversation, please feel free to share with your people, share with friends and family. Rate the podcast below and also subscribe."
    ]
  },
  {
    "file": "amina_mccloud/_Pendekatan Gender Dalam Studi Islam_ _ Amina Wadu_CJ3c3N6v854&pp=ygURQW1pbmEgV2FkdWQgaXNsYW0%3D_1742917611.opus",
    "text": [
      "Terutama adanya ketidakadilan gender ya, terutama persoalan ketidakanilan gender Yang kedua yaitu apa pendekatan yang digunakan oleh Aminah Wadud dalam mengkaji studi gender dalam Islam Nah dua pertanyaan ini akan sama-sama kita diskusikan pada video kali ini",
      "Dia merupakan seorang keturunan Afro-Amerika. Walaupun dia seorang ma'alaf, tapi dia cukup banyak mengenal ilmu Islam dan dia juga sempat belajar di timur terutama di Mesir, Cairo al-Azhar. Dan dia juga banyak belajarnya S2 dan S3nya, belaja di Amerika",
      "dan berkulang-kukul antiki di barat nah itu sedikit tentang Amin Hawadud ya kemudian apa sih sumbang si pemikirannya dalam bukunya ini dia sumbangsi pemikiran mengenai studi jendel yaitu pada studi Alquran dan Tafsir dalam melalui karyanya yaitun Quran and Mormon tadi",
      "Apa sih yang melanda Amin Awadud dalam karya-karyanya ini? Dia mendebati adanya kesenjangan antara wanita muslim di segala bidang. Ini disebabkan oleh penafsiran tradisional atau mistik dan didominasi kaum laki-laki sehingga bias jendel dan menindukan perempuan. Dan juga dia melihat bahwasannya penafsan, penafseran tradisonal itu",
      "banyak yang bias gender karena penafsirannya yang atomistik atau partikular dan juga penafsyuran-penafsyiran yang tradisional ini didominasi oleh kaum laki-laki sehingga penafsilanya dihasilkan yaitu bias gender dan menjadikan perempuan padahal menurut dia dalam pengajian yang ditemukan dalam mengkaji Al-Quran",
      "Dia mengatakan bahwasanya Al-Quran ini padahal sumber nilai tertinggi secara adil menundukkan laki-laki dan perempuan itu secara setara Jadi aneh menurut dia dalam kenyataannya laki dan perompuan yang dia lihat itu tidak adil",
      "Mempunyai had dan kewajiban yang sama Dalam pertanyaannya ini Aminah wadud konsen pada Merekonstruksi Kembali penafsiran Al-Quran sehingga Melahirkan penafsyaran baru Yang berkadilan gender Lalu latar belakang Kenapa Lahirnya pemikiran atau pendekatan Yang digunakan aminah Wadud dalam sendiri gender Dalam Al-Kur'an",
      "Karena dia konsen pada studi penafsiran Al-Quran Di sini, dia ada argumen dan asumsinya terhadap penafsanan Al-quran Pertama, dia mengatakan bahwasannya tidak ada metode tafsir yang tidak benar objektif Karena menurutnya subyektivitas penafssiran itu tidak bisa dihidupkan kata dia",
      "mengkaji suatu kata atau teks dalam bahasa kemudian juga dia mengkajipkan teks dari penafsirnya untuk menarik pemahaman dari nasab Quran jadi ada dua yang dia pahami dalam penafsilannya itu, dia merefleksi maksud dari teks dan kemudiaan dia mengetahui proteks itu apa itu protekst? nanti akan kita bahas",
      "bahas lainnya mungkin kalau teman-teman lihat Minawadil ini menambahkan suatu metode penafsiran atau kalau kita melihat penafsilannya modelan yaitu yang dinamakan Hermenetika kemudian dalam bukunya ini terutama kita akan sedikit khususnya membahas tentang pendahulannya karena kita tidak mungkin membahasi secara segera",
      "secara sulungan bukunya kita akan membedah pendahuluannya mengenai tentang persepsi perempuan dalam pengaruhi interpretasi Al-Quran nah, dia mengklasifikasi penafsiran tentang wanita atau perepuan ini menjadi tiga kategori yang pertama yaitu penafsil tradisional model penafslian ini ada baik itu dari",
      "klasik hingga modern nah, tafsir tradisional ini secara yang ia pahami itu bertujuan menafsirkan menurut kemampuan dan cara ideologi memfasil walaupun tafsiri tradisinal ini banyak menerikan cara-cara penafsiran baik itu ada cara fikih gramatikal kemudian cara kalamin dan cara-cera lainnya",
      "Tafsir tradisional ini cenderung atau mistik ya Karena penafsilannya yang partikular Dan tidak menunjukkan adanya korelasi suatu ayat dengan ayat lain secara tematis Walaupun sebenarnya yang dia katakan tafsir tradisional ini Menunjukan adanya merasa baik Tapi itu masih sangat kurang untuk menunjukkan hubungan antara satu ayat dan ayat yang lain",
      "Urayan gramatikal dan sintesis bahasa dalam tradisional ini masih sangat kurang Dan juga yang paling krusial, tafsir tradisinal ini itu sangat eksklusif pada penafsir dari laki-laki gitu Dan kurangnya penafsyar pada perempuan Karena kenapa menurut dia pengalaman perepuan ini menuruti membantu ya Penafsyaran yang dihasilkan terhadap gadila gender",
      "karena yang dia lihat penasaran yang dilakukan banyak oleh laki-laki ini atau pengalaman dari laki laki ini dia menghasilkan bias gender dan kecenderung menirukan perempuan ataupun mendiskriminasi perepuan kemudian tafsir kedua yaitu Tafsir Reaktif",
      "sejumlah hambatan yang dialami kaum perempuan, yang menganggap bahwa sumber hambatan dan problematika kaum perekpuan berasal dari teks Al-Quran. Tafsir aktif ini banyak digunakan atau dilakukan oleh para peremuan ataupun aktivis feminis perembuan namun tafsir ini dia mengangga bahwa",
      "Al-Quran Dan ya Cenderung dan Nafsirannya cenderung tentang Pesan Al-Kur'an Dan ya Dan dia Memanfaatkan status Status kelemahan perempuan itu Untuk pembenaran Atas reaksi mereka Menurut Aminah Wadud Tarsil reaktif ini Tidak bisa membedakan Antara mana yang",
      "mana yang menasar Al-Quran, dan yang kedua, mana yang penafsiran Al-Quran. Karena sebabnya itu kurangnya analisis terhadap Al-quran yang kurang komprehensif. Nah, itu tafsir yang kedualah. Kemudian tafsiran tiga yaitu tafsiri holistik.",
      "interpretasinya terhadap gender karena tafsir holistik ini menurut dia yaitu tafsiri yang mempertimbangkan kembali seluruh metode penafsiran al-deran serta mengaitkannya dengan berbagai persoalan sosial, moral, ekonomi politik mawadaran termasuk dalam masalah perempuan. Penafsir yang dikenakan Amin Awadud ini dalam tafsiran holistis ini adalah",
      "yang sudah menjadi kerangka penafsiran laki-laki nah, tafsir alistik ini nanti akan kita bahas bagaimana pendekatan yang digunakan kemudian apa saja kerangkauan metodologi yang diguna sehingga penafsilannya yang dilakukan terhadap Alquran itu tidak bias jadinya selanjutnya mengenai pembacaan diantara daftar istilah laki dan pengumuman dalam Alqur'an Aminah wa Adhut",
      "menentang adanya istilah-istilah yang diambil gender sehingga ketika dia menemukan istilah istilah yang bergender, dia juga menjadi neutral misalnya setiap jamaah maskulin dalam kata yahu halazina amanu maksud orang-orang beriman disini bukan hanya ditunjukkan kepada kaum maskulin walaupun disini merupakan jamaat maskulin",
      "jamaah masmurid, tapi dalam jamaat disini dia juga mencakup laki-laki dan perempuan. Dan sehingga dia tidak hanya mencakuk pada hanya laki saja gitu, tapi juga mencahub laki dan perpuan Sehingga menurutnya ayat yang mengandung petunjuk kepada wanita atau bersama laki laki dianalisis dengan metode tafsir Alquran bialquran artinya dia menafsirkan ketika dia menemukan",
      "Ayat yang menunjukkan adanya laki-laki dan perempuan Di situ dianalisis dengan metode tafsir Alquran dengan alquran hatinya, alqurn itu menafsikan dengan ayatnya sendiri Dalam cara menganalisikannya Itu ada 5 caranya Yang pertama yaitu menurut konteksnya Kemudian yaituk menuruti kontekst pembahasan yang sama",
      "Yang ketiga yaitu menurut sudut bahasa dan struktur sintasis yang sama. Yang keempat yaitulah menurkd sudut prinsip Alquran, dan yang kelima menurud weltenstung Alquan Selanjutnya mengenai prior text yang tadi kita bahas apa itu prior text? Nah tadi yang saya katakan prior text itu seperti konteks di sekitar penasun itu",
      "Setiap usaha memahami suatu teks itu biasanya mengandung ke-teks, yaitu persepsi, keadaan, bahasa dan latar belakang dari penafsir itu. Dalam pembacaan perspektif gender khususnya tentang apa yang membentuk perilaku feminim ataupun maskulin dalam masyarakat itu didasarkan pada konteks budaya seseorang",
      "Pure context ini sangat mempengaruhi terhadap hasil penafsiran dari perspektif gender itu. Apakah nanti penafsyuran itu dapat dilacak, apakah dia berada di sisi gender atau tidak, itu salah satunya dapat diketahui dari pure text, dari sepenasaran itu sendiri. Kemudian terhadapan perbedaan gender, walaupun yang dikatakan Aminawan disini",
      "di sini laki-laki dan perempuan itu sama ya tapi dia juga mengakui adanya anatomi pembedaan antara laki laki dan perumpuan memang dia secara biologis yang mengakuin laki, pere, pilih laki itu berbeda tetapi dia mengatakan bahwasannya itu bukan berarti laki dn pere itu secara hakiki itu berbeda karena keduanya mempunyai hak dan kewajiban",
      "dan kewajiban yang sama untuk mengatasi pemahaman perbedaan gender ini menurut Aminah Wadud umat Islam harus memahami prinsip ngomong dalam Al-Quran dan kemudian menerapkan prinsipe tersebut sesuai konteks budaya masyarakat misalnya ayat-ayat hijab ya menuruti tentang ayat hijabi ini merupakan awal nya pakaian yang digunakan oleh orang kaya",
      "dan orang yang jabatannya berpengalaman gila nah, kain hijab ini digunakan oleh para bangsawan atau mangkai itu sebagai tanda perlindungan ataupun sedang dipingit pemakaian hijab disini bukan hanya hak istimewa kalangan atas tetapi yang mengandung prinsip umum tentang pendorban kesepanan pada setiap perempuan walaupun dalam konteks",
      "dalam konteks ayat tentang turunnya yang hijab ini dilatar belakangi oleh sebagai tanda perlindungan dan khususkan hanya perempuan yang kaya dan berpengaruh tapi dalam pemaknaannya apa yang digunakan penafsiran yang diguna kan Aminah Wadud ini terutama dia mengadopsi",
      "yaitu double movementnya itu, dia mengambil prinsip umum dari turutnya ayat ini. Yaitu mengandung prinsep tentang pendorongan kesempatan pada setiap perempuan. Nah itu contoh dari penasaran gender yang dilakukan oleh Aminah Waduh. Selain itu, Dia juga membukakan kata kunci dan konsep dalam alam kebaikan. Karena menurut Dia, setiab kata mempunyai makna dasar dan makna rasional",
      "Kata itu digunakan Yang saya lihat Memang Amin Awad ini juga Menggunakan analisis semaktif Karena menurut dia setiap kata-kata Dalam akuran misalnya tentang Ayat Qawwab Kemudian Fathala Kemudia Andada Roja dan sebagainya Disitu selain dia mempunyai Makna dasar, dia juga mempunya Makna relasional yang khusus Digunakan dalam akurat",
      "Ia menggunakan Hermenetika Al-Quran. Ia terinspirasi oleh Hermeneticanya Dablu Mermon Fazlur Rahman, di mana dalam Hermenethicanya ia berusaha mencari prinsip konteks ayat Al-quran dan untuk memahami teks al-qur'an itu diperlukan melihat krotekst atau kondisi sekitar penafsir",
      "Untuk menganalisis istilah-istilah Jenderal dalam Al-Quran Nah semua pendekatan yang ini Yang ia gunakan untuk mendapatkan Penasaran al-Qur'an yang bergantian Jadi itu saja Dalam video ini kurang lebihnya mohon maaf Wassalamualaikum warahmatullahi wabarakatuh"
    ]
  },
  {
    "file": "amina_mccloud/Presentasi Pemikiran Tafsir Kontemporer Aminah Wad_IoOK6zV_8Ec&pp=ygURQW1pbmEgV2FkdWQgaXNsYW0%3D_1742934795.opus",
    "text": [
      "Assalamualaikum Wr. Wb Saya Muhammad Dikaikanguloni dari kelas 4C jurusan ilmu Al-Quran dan Tafsir Fakultas Usulin Adab dan Nakwah di NCR Jatuh Cirebuan akan sedikit membawakan tentang makalah Aminah Wadud Sejak tahun 1800an gender dan realisme sudah muncul membawa misi kesamaan hak dan kahlian bagi perempuan",
      "Pemirsaan laki-laki, maka patriarki harus dihapus.",
      "dan muncullah pemikiran feminisme liberal oleh Mary Walstenocraft dalam bukunya The Vindication of the Rights of Women tahun 1975. Pemikirannya tercurahkan, berembrio dari ini munculah teori feminisme libera oleh pemikiran feminisme radikal bermetamorposa",
      "bukunya The Vindication Ties of Women tahun 1975 pemikirannya tercurahkan berembilio dari ini muncullah teori feminisme ribelal oleh pemikiran feminisme Mary Waller Steiner Krupp yang berusaha menunjukkan hak-hak perempuan dengan menghadirkan kegagasan ideal mengenai pendidikan bagi perepuan. Perempuan adalah suatu tujuan lagi dirinya agen yang bernalar dan memiliki kemampuan untuk",
      "Tidak hanya di rumah dirawat suaminya, kemudian merambat dan berkembanglah teori feminisme eksistensialis seperti dalam pemikiran Simone de Beauvoir yang mengadopsi pemikirannya Satri. Keberadaan perempuan ibarat etre potar les autres bagi orang lain dan sebagai etre pour soi yaitu cara berada manusia yang berkesadaran dan memiliki kebebasan.",
      "Justifikasi dalam gender dan feminisme sudah seharusnya diimplementasikan pada era saat ini. Upaya kesetaraan antara perempuan dan laki-laki masih sulit untuk dibucurkan jika wacana publik selalu dipengaruhi oleh pemahaman terhadap teks-teks keagamaan yang masih mempengesampingkan gender dan masih bersifat fundamentalis. Pada aturan human sociality gender adalah salah satu isu yang cukup ramai dibincangkan mengiringi perkembangan pemikiran Islam,",
      "salah anggapan bahwa kerudukan perempuan lebih rendah dari laki-laki atau perepuan tidak sederajat dengan laki. Salah satu penyebab terburuknya posisi peremuan adalah bias penafsiran Al-Quran dalam gender. Dalam beberapa produk penafsyiran Al Quran, terdapat pandangan yang tidak akomodatif terhadap nilai-nilai kemanusiaan kaum perembuan. Perempuan tidak diakui sebagai manusia utuh,",
      "Posisi laki-laki dalam kehidupan Dengan kata lain wanita muslim tidak memiliki status yang sama dengan laki wadud Kesempatan ini Aminah Wadud meyakini bahwa menurut Islam Perempuan secara primordial kosmologi Ekstologi spiritual dan moral Dimaksudkan sebagai manusia yang sempurna Dan memilki peran perempuan masing-masing",
      "Setara dengan kaum pria, realitas dalam Islam menunjukkan kenapa peran perempuan terbelakang daripada laki-laki. Wadud ingin membangkitkan peran Perempuan dengan kestaraan dalam relasi gender dengan berprinsip pada keadilan sosial dan kesteraan gender. Wadiut juga ingin menyelamatkan perepuan dari konservatisme Islam maka dari itu model pemikiran kritis atas pemahaman Tiz'al Quran adalah menjadi solusi agar ketimpangan yang berbasis gender tidak semakin merajalela.",
      "Inyah Wadud juga berpendapat tentang bagaimana Islam adalah agama feminis dan bagaiman mencoba untuk menafsirkan dan membaca kembali Al-Quran dalam cahaya feminismu. Menurutnya banyak hal yang menyebabkan penafsiran fatal tentang perempuan, kultur masyarakat, kesalahan paradigma, tatar belakang para penafsil yang kebanyakan dari laki-laki. Oleh karena itu ayat tentang peremohon mendakwa ditafsihkan oleh peremohon sendiri berdasarkan persepsi pengalaman dan pemikiran peremmohon itu sendiri.",
      "perempuan itu sendiri selanjutnya biografi Aminah Wadud Aminnah Wadude lahir pada 25 Desember 1952 dengan nama Maria Tesli di Bethesda, Maryland Amerika Serikat yang terletak di bagian barat laut Washington DC ayahnya adalah seorang metodis menteri dan ibunya keturunan dari buddhak muslim Arab Berber dan Afrika pada tahun 1972 ia mengucapkan sahadat",
      "Namanya resmi diubah menjadi Aminah Wadud Dipilih untuk mencerminkan afiliasi agamanya Ia menerima gelar BS dari The University of Pennsylvania antara tahun 1970 dan 1975 Dalam karir akademiknya, Aminat Wadu pernah menjadi Profesor of Religion and Philosophy Profesur Agama dan Filsafat di Virginia Commonwealth University",
      "diberi oleh lembaga Nir Labah Sisters in Islam dan menjadi panduan buat beberapa pengikut, penggiat hak-hak perempuan serta akademisi. Buku itu dilarang beredar di Universitas Arab karena isinya dianggap provokatif dan membangkitkan sentimen agama. Waduh dikontak untuk jangka 3 tahun sebagai asisten profesor di Universiti Malaysia di bidang studi Al-Quran di Malaysia antara tahun 1989 dan 1992.",
      "Mulai pada tahun 2008 sampai sekarang, ia adalah seorang profesor tamu di pusat agama dan cross-cultural studies di Universitas Kejah Mada di Yogyakarta, Indonesia. Di masa mudanya, ia mendapatkan gelar keserjanaan dari University of Pennsylvania yang kemudian dilanjutkan pada 1988 untuk menaiki gelar MA di Near Eastern Youth Studies dan VHD di Arabic and Islamic Studies.",
      "Wadud merasa tidak cukup hanya dengan memperhatikan pengetahuan yang telah diperolehnya dari negaranya sendiri. Maka ia pun beranjak ke negeri piramid untuk meningkatkan studi tentang kehistimewaannya di American University in Cairo. Ia memperdalam pembelajaran seputar Al-Quran dan tafsir di Cairo University. Untuk menyempurnakannya, ia mengambil pendidikan kursus tentang kefilsafatan di Al-Azhar University. Telah sempurnalah jendang pendidikannya yang dilalui",
      "Wanita di dalam Al-Quran, dipengaruhi oleh pemikiran Fadzul Rahman. Hal ini bisa kita lihat dari metode dan pendekatan yang digunakan dalam menafsirkan ayat-ayat Al-Kur'an. Yang berhubungan dengan gender sama dengan metode yang dimiliki oleh Fadzil Rahman Dalam bukunya Inside the Gender Jihad Ia menulis bahwa ia telah menjadi The Single Parent lebih dari 30 tahun bagi 4 orang anaknya",
      "Sebagai seorang tokoh studi Islam dan aktivis gender sudah sewajarnya memiliki karya-karya beredar di masyarakat Ada pun beberapa karya beliau, yang pertama Quran and Women Yang kedua Inside the Gender Jihad Dan yang ketiga Woman Report in Islam Selanjutnya yaitu metode pemikiran tafsir kontemporer Aminah Wadud Yang pertama pemikirannya tentang penafsiran Al-Quran",
      "Menunjuk pada pemikiran Faslur Rahman, Aminah Wadud berpijak pada pemahaman bahwa penafsiran memiliki nilai yang relatif sehingga dari pemikirannya ini mengunculkan suatu rumus baru yang membedakan antara agama dan pemikiraan agama Framework pemikian ini masih berkutat seputar dikotomi antara yang absolut dan relatif Pada satu sisi agama itu bersifat absolut yang berarti bahwa agama mengandung kebenaran mutlak yang tidak dapat digambugat",
      "Maka pemikiran keagamaan bersifat relatif karena merupakan hasil interpretasi terhadap teks agama. Oleh karena sifat pemikiran keagaman adalah hasil pikir para ulama terhadapan makna sebenarnya dari teks, maka hasil pemahaman tersebut tidak berarti memiliki kebenaran absolut dan pemikian agama yang relatif. Menurut pemikiri yang tidak sepakat dengan penggunaan metode hermeneutik dalam menafsirkan Al-Quran akan menyebabkan hasil penafsiran ulama tempo dulu",
      "Yang merupakan refleksi dari pemilihan-pilihan para mufasir. Akan tetapi seringkali pembaca terjebak dengan refleksi subjektivitas karena memang membedakan antara penafsiran dan teks yang ditafsirkan itu sendiri. Sehingga kebenaran penafshiran sering kali dianggap sebagai sesuatu yang koresponden dengan teks. Padahal sesungguhnya ada reduksi dalam proses penafsyiran tersebut. Aminah Wadud menyatakan bahwa hermenetik diperlukan untuk memahami ayat-ayat Al-Quran,",
      "Terutama untuk mengungkap makna Al-Quran yang tidak dapat diungkap oleh para mufasir klasik Untuk itu metode monomantik sangat dibutuhkan Wadud menegaskan bahwa menjadi penafsir itu harus kreatif Dalam arti bahwa penafsyiran tidak boleh meninggalkan tiga aspek Yaitu yang pertama ruang, waktu dan budaya Analisis Al-Kur'an adalah kalambungloh Dan dalam penafskyirkannya diperlukan metode yang sesuai dengan kedudukan Al-Gur'ani sendiri",
      "Rasulullah, para sohabat Tabi'in serta para ulama yang memiliki Autoritas keilmuan Melalui bukunya Quran and Women Wadud berusaha membongkar cara menafsirkan Al-Quran model klasik Yang dinilainya menghasilkan tafsir yang Bias gender atau menindas perempuan Amina wadud untuk Tidak menolak Al-Kur'an Tetapi yang dilakukan adalah Membongkar metode tafsiri klasis Dan menggantikannya dengan Metode tafsiri agaya baru yang diberi nama Tafsiri tauhin",
      "Jadi Aminah Wadud disini itu tidak Menyangkal kebenaran tafsir dari yang dulu Tafsir klasik, tidak menyalahkan Yang Aminahu wadud Ini sendiri itu Metodenya ya Bukan hasil penafsilannya Jadi hasil penafsirannya ya oke boleh saja Mungkin benar tapi wadid punya Terobosan baru tentang Penafsiran metode baru yaitu tafsiri tauhid Dengan metode tafsri ini Meskipun al-Quran nya sama Produk hukum yang diperoleh akan sangat berbeda",
      "Wadud membuat klasifikasi penafsiran terhadap perempuan menjadi tiga kategori penafshirannya yaitu tradisional, relatif dan holistik Menurut wadud model penafsyirannya tidak dapat ditemui dalam kategorik-kategori pentafsiran klasik atau tradisinal Oleh karena maka penafslian tradisonal dianggap tidak mampu merepasikan pandangan dan ide dari Al-Quran Terlebih lagi penafsilin tradisial sangat dinominasi oleh Mufassilul Laki-Laki",
      "Sehingga seperangkat visi, persepsi maupun pengalaman dari Mufassir sangat mempengaruhi penafsiran ayat tersebut Aminah Wadud mengkritisi bahwa salah satu elemen yang harus diatasi dalam melakukan pembacaan dan penafsyiran adalah Bahasa dan Prior Text Dari siap membaca yaitu konteks budaya dimana teks dibaca Prior Text itulah menurut Aminoh Wadid Yang paling berpengaluh sebagai perspektif dan kesimpulan pembacanya dalam melakukannya",
      "Pemikiran konjamburat yang kedua yaitu rekonstruksi pemikiran tentang perempuan. Islam adalah agama yang sangat menghargai perembuan. Hal ini terbukti dengan adanya ayat-ayat dalam Al-Quran yang menjelaskan pentingnya peran peremuan, Islam dalam kehidupan. Al-Kur'an secara tegas memandang laki-laki dan peremmuan secara sama akan keberadaannya sehingga eksistensi pereмuan merupakan kekuatan penyeimbang bagi laki.",
      "Penafsiran membuat sejumlah pilihan yang sifatnya subjektif tanpa mementingkan maksud ayat yang sebenarnya. Maka Aminah berusaha mengubah paradigma pemikiran terhadap perempuan selama ini melalui gaya penafsirannya. Aminnah mencoba melakukan rekonstruksi metodologi sebagaimana menafsikan Al-Quran agar dapat menghasilkan sebuah penafsanan yang sensitif gender dan berkeadilan.",
      "Aminah mencoba melakukan rekonstruksi terhadap penafsiran klasik yang syarat dengan bias patriarki. Menurut Aminahl, Al-Quran merupakan sumber nilai yang tertinggi yang secara adil memandang laki-laki dan perempuan. Oleh karena itu perintah yang ada dalam Al-Kuran harus didafsirkan dalam konteks historis yang spesifik yaitu kondisi saat Al- Quran diturunkan harus diperhatikan dan juga latar belakang seorang mufasir.",
      "Tidaklah pada Al-Quran dan As-Sunnah, melainkan terhadap warisan tafsiran yang lama. Kesatuan jenis antara laki-laki dan perempuan menyebabkan kesetaraan pada keduanya dalam menjalankan syariat. Karena jenisi manusia berbagai menjadi dua yang berbeda dalam sebagian karakter dan sifatnya. Maka syariat yang sempurna adalah menyatarakan persamaan keduannya. Tentu dengan memperhatikan dan menjaga perbedaan yang ada pada kedoanya.",
      "Al-Quran, Quran Surat al-Baqarah ayat 228 Ayat ini menjelaskan aturan-aturan Allah SWT Mengenai keluarga yang menjadi masyarakat kecil Walaupun terdapat persamaan pada keduanya Tetapi tetap mempunyai peran dan fungsinya masing-masing Dalam bukunya Aminah mengingatkan bahwa laki-laki dan perempuan Hanyalah kategori spesies manusia Keduanya dikarunis potensi yang sama atau sederajat Dari hal penciptaan",
      "hingga balasan yang kelak mereka terima di akhirat. Satu-satunya nilai pembeda adalah ketakwaan, itulah yang ditegaskan Al-Quran, rujukan dari segala rujukkan keislaman. Al-Kur'an mengungkapkan hal ini secara tegas dan jelas dalam kenyataannya ada sebagian kaum perempuan yang mengalami keterpurukan akibat dari perbedaan dengan kaum laki-laki. Hal ini disebabkan sebagainya oleh kondisi buruk yang menimpa kaum perekpuan dalam masyarakat Islam pasca kolonial.",
      "Begitu pernyataan itu mengemuka, metode untuk menjawabnya perlu dikembangkan dalam merana kesajaran Islam Menurut Aminah salah satu aspek penting metode hermenetik adalah mengatasi keterputusasaan dengan Al-Quran Namun semua aspek orisinal ini telah diabaikan Malahan kesenderungan yang muncul terus saja mencampur adukan antara karya-karya ulama dulu dan sekarang dengan Al-'Quran",
      "mempertentangkan sumber-sumber non Islam dengan sumber islam original sehingga hukumannya menarik prinsip-prinsip Alquran dan menerapkan pada masalah masa tertentu tapi justru berusaha menariki berbagai prinsipe dari sumber non Islam kemudian menerapkannya pada Alqur'an akhirnya, kisah khusus tentang perempuan dalam Alqura'n memiliki dua implikasi penting yang pertama ia akan membuktikan dalam ungkapan yang spesifik Aminah menyarankan bahwa agar repansi Alqu'ran terus terjaga ia terus-terusan menerus ditafsir ulang",
      "Kedua, kemajuan peradaban tercermin dari tingkat partisipasi perempuan dalam masyarakat dan pengakuan pentingnya sumber daya perembuan. Dalam koneg Islam dan kaum muslim, pemahaman atas konsep peremuan dalam Al-Quran dibangun lebih dari 1400 tahun yang lalu menunjukkan tingkat peradiban yang maju. Menurut Aminah Wadud, bukan tes Al-Kuran yang membatasi peremuan, melainkan penafsiran terhadap Al-Quran itu sendiri yang mematasinya.",
      "Harus memasukkan perempuan ke dalam wacana Agar mereka mendapat legitimasi Sementara perembuan muslim hanya perlu Memahami Al-Quran saja, yakni tidak Terbelenggu oleh penafsiran-penafsirannya Yang eksklusif dan mengekang Bila mereka ingin mendapatkan kebebasan yang Tak terbantahkan Contoh Amina Waghid disini mengambil ayat Surat Al-Nisa Ayat 1",
      "Kisah asal-usul manusia versi Al-Quran Tanpa ada kejelasan tentang Adam dan Hawa Namun ayat itu sering dipahami sebagai penciptaan Adam dan Hawa Padahal jika dilihat dari akar katanya, kata nafs adalah mu'annas atau feminis Mengapa ditaksirkan Adam? Aminah menambahkan bahwa kata naps dalam Al-Kur'an hanya menunjukkan bahwaseluruh umat manusia berasal dari asal usul yang sama dengan tegas dikatakan The Qur'anic version of",
      "creation of human being is not expressed in gender term mengenai kata mim dalam bahasa Arab mempunyai dua arti yaitu dari dan sama atau semacam Aminah mempertanyakan mengapa para mufasir klasik memilih pada pemilihan makna dari, dari kata Mim mengapa bukan pada yang sejenisnya padahal dalam ayat lain misalnya dalam surat At-Taubah ayat 128 kata mimp diartikan sama jenisnya",
      "Begitu pula kata Zawis sebenarnya bersikap netral Kata Zaws yang jamaahnya Azwaz Sering digunakan untuk menyebutkan tanaman Dalam Quran Surat Al-Rahman ayat 52 Dan hewan pada surat Hud ayat 40 Disamping untuk manusia Aminah juga menyayangkan mengapa para mufasir tradisional Jatuh pada makna istri yaitu Hawa Yang berjenis kelamin perempuan Dan menafsiran kata zawis",
      "Atau laki-laki bisa dikategorikan sebagai pemimpin ketika mereka bisa memenuhi hak-hak dan kewajiban Mereka terhadap suami atau terhadapan istri, atau teradapat perempuannya Jadi kalau tidak bisa mempenuhi hal-hal tersebut maka mereka tidak bisa dikatakan sebagai pemimpin Konsep kepemimpinan suami dalam rumah tangga yang selama sudah mapan di kalangan kaum muslimin bagi para penghuni Sepaham yang menempatkan suami sebagai pemikir rumah tanggal tidak sejalan",
      "bertentangan dengan ide utama feminisme yaitu kesetaraan laki-laki dan perempuan maka konsekuensi logis dari konsep kesetaran laki dan perampuan adalah terciptanya status istri yang setara dengan suami memahami maksud dari kepemimpinan lelaki terhadap peremuan yang disebutkan dalam ayat diatas menurut Muhammad Abduh adalah pemimpinannya yang memiliki atas arti menjaga, melindungi, menguasai dan mencukupi kebutuhan istri jika suami tidak masuk ke dalam kategori semua ini",
      "tidak bisa menjaga, melindungi dan menguasai atau mencukui kebutuhan istri maka suami tersebut tidak bisa dikadekan sebagai pemimpin selanjutnya yang berakhir atau penutup kesimpulan praktek diskriminasi terhadap perempuan juga terjadi di kalangan masyarakat Islam meski pun aktivitas ini tidak mendapatkan dasar hukumnya dalam Al-Quran dan Al-Hadis akan tetapi menafsiran sebagian kecil orang yang menamakan dirinya memiliki ilmu agama Islam",
      "mengatakan bahwa perempuan tidak boleh begini dan begitu. Pernyataan ini diklaim tak ada hukumnya dalam Al-Quran dan hadis, sehingga masyarakat Islam harus mengikutinya tanpa mempertanyakan lagi sumbernya. Padahal tidak ada ayat Al-Kur'an atau hadis yang merendahkan perembuan, bahkan kedatangan Rasulullah dan Islam itu sendiri justru untuk mengangkat harikat dan martabat peremmuan. Apabila terjadi perlakuan negatif terhadap perempuan di kalangan umat rus Islam",
      "dalam masyarakat. Tentu saja hal ini sangat berbeda dengan konsep Islam sebenarnya, sebagaimana telah ditertera dalam Al-Quran dan hadis bahwa setelah Islam hadir di muka bumi kondisi kemampuan berubah menjadi lebih baik Ketika diskriminasi terhadap perempuan juga terjadi di kalangan umat Islam maka yang selalu dikoreksi adalah masyarkatnya atau interpretasinya bukan ajaran agama Islam sendiri Islam sudah benar yang salah itu kadang perspektif orangnya saja",
      "Maka orang tersebut yang menjadi pemimpin. Laki-laki menjadi pemimpin saat mampu memberi nafkah. Ketika kemampuan ini tidak dimiliki lagi, maka status kemungkinan juga beralih. Begitu juga dengan hukum poligami dan saksi perempuan. Realisasinya harus dilihat pada konstek zamannya. Jadi intinya Aminah Wadud ini memperjuangkan tentang kesetaraannya. Yang di mana ketika seorang itu lebih dominan atau ketika laki-leki itu lebih dominant, ya maka dia patut disebut sebagai pemimpian.",
      "disebut sebagai pemimpin sebaliknya ketika perempuan yang lebih dominan dalam segi harta ataupun halilang lainnya maka perembuan juga patut diacungi atau dijuluki sebagai pemimpin kurang lebih sekian penjelasan dari mangkala tentang Aminah Wadud ini kurang-kurangnya mohon maaf Wassalamualaikum Wr. Wb"
    ]
  },
  {
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    "text": [
      "As-salamu alaykum. I am really excited to be participating in this year's Shaykhah Fest with women who, some of whom I have met others of whom i have not missed my name is Amina Makhlouq and I direct the Islamic World Studies program at DePaul University",
      "University where we have a major in Islamic studies, a major and minor, and students matriculating through the program. We are very active as a community working across the country and internationally but I just look forward to hanging out with women scholars",
      "who may not be scholars. Hopefully we can be of some inspiration and they can be in some inspiration to us. Look forward to seeing all of you in June. Salaam Alaikum"
    ]
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    "text": [
      "I begin as always in the name of Allah whose grace I seek in this and all other matters.",
      "English because I'm very excited about this topic and also because just a few months ago, I presented my first paper on this topic. And I had 45 minutes and it took 55 and I never got through all of my pages so I will not even bring the paper out. What I want to talk about actually has to cross over both time",
      "But as a theologian, ultimately I want to make its relationship to the system of Islam. And it's been called Islamic feminism and this is actually a fairly recent term and the way to arrive at it I think is to take you a little bit on the journey that I myself have",
      "because I have been engaged in Islam and gender thought for 40 years, and it's only been five years that I recognize myself as an Islamic feminist. So how did I get there? I think I will start with 1995 with the Beijing conference",
      "International Women's Conference in Beijing was very overt, very noticeable. And at some point along the way we decided that we should get together to form a caucus, a Muslim women's caucus and all they did was shout at each other because different perspectives were coming together and they had not learned a language",
      "The two loudest voices and the two voices that had the most support both within their own nationalities and internationally were the two voice that I need to bring into conversation to help you see about the evolution of Islam feminism. Now, I'm going to talk then about three strategies for Muslim women's reform starting with these",
      "is much greater diversity. So on the one hand, I would say we have the Islamist voice and the Islam's voice is connected with the political Islam agenda most notably that agenda says if we just implement Sharia our lives as Muslims will be perfect. On",
      "The other very loud voice is characterized by a kind of secular feminism because it is important in their perspective of gender reform that we leave religion out of the debates. Clearly there is not an easy meeting point between these two voices,",
      "but also I want to say a little bit more about the evolution of each of the voices because if you look in most majority countries, a radical change in our whole Ummah, our whole global community came about in the 20th century with",
      "nations, and not just Muslim majority nations. But for many nations the end of the empire was the beginning of colonialism. We were not introduced to the nation-state idea which is the current reality. We will not introduce to it without a very negative imperialistic thrust. Some countries wanted",
      "And this is the way in which Muslim countries came into the nation-state phenomena, so of course there was some resistance.",
      "what would be the nature of their own polity, their policies and their citizenship. Women and men stood side by side to establish their own national identities but the end result and the clear demarcation of at least many of the nation states because as recently as last year I think we're still having new ones",
      "the clear demarcation of the nation states came into being without women necessarily being the beneficiaries to the same extent as the men along whose side they had fought. In the context of Muslim majority countries, this created for many women a clarity that",
      "had to be addressed specifically and directly, and not simply subsumed under the notion of citizenship. Because what actually happened at the beginning of the nation state is that women were not equal citizens in their own newly formed or articulated or clarified nation states. Take for example today I was just in Jordan last week",
      "marries someone other than a Jordanian man, her children will not be Jordanian citizens. They cannot hold a Jordan passport but if a Jordan man marries anybody from anywhere his children will be Jordanians and can't hold a Jordani passport so you see the notion of",
      "dished out to women and men. And this is the beginning of women's activities in the context of the Muslim world that leads to the modern era. Women began to form organizations, intellectual culture clubs, and to also educate themselves to be able to participate fully in the benefits of their new nation states. So we're talking late 19th century early 20th",
      "early 20th century. Now when women were advocating, when Muslim were advocating in this time they would advocate on behalf of women's rights for things like universal education, for access to public health obviously to citizenship rights and the like. They did so as Muslim women but",
      "of upper and middle class, they were themselves becoming educated. And they were also aware that the culture in which they were born, which includes Islam was not the only culture in the world. I call this part of the global perspective. The global perspective is extremely important to us today because our world is interconnected",
      "Everything that we do in one place has an effect someplace else. And not only that, we are hopefully coming to a point where we understand that we are citizens of one planet. So the global perspective actually examines the position of citizens,",
      "might be the global definition of a citizen. Is a citizen in Belgium more a citizen of Belgium than a citizen Jordan? If a Belgian woman marries someone who is not from Belgium, can she pass her citizenship to her children? I don't know. I'm just asking questions so that he could... Okay. So in other words, a woman in Jordan and a",
      "have the same rights in your own nation state. So these women were aware, in the early part of 20th century that the whole world did not operate along the same lines and so they benefited from suffragist movements and women's rights movements in other parts of the world but they weren't necessarily claiming it for the sake of other women. They were claiming certain things",
      "as a motivation for what they were advocating. But sometimes, they would advocate against the most common understanding of Islam or the ones that are being used to establish certain unequal laws within the nation state. Margot Badran calls this the first wave of Muslim women's feminism. Now my attaching to this for the sake of my argument",
      "secular Muslim women's feminism, I don't think was relevant in the early part of the 20th century. That had to wait until the end of the twentieth century and the rise of Islamism. And the rise is a political movement to establish an ideal of Islam. It's an ideal that never really existed because Sharia has",
      "Sharia has never been an implementation. Sharia is a concept, it's a value. Technically it comes from the word that means path and the word street sharia comes from same root. It is a path that leads to water and water being source of all life. So sharia is the divine way. Muslims have always striven",
      "But they knew that the way to adjudicate that divine way was to establish an understanding of the primary sources, the Quran which is revelation from Allah. The Sunnah, the established practices of the Prophet Muhammad and the Hadiths, the statements that have been transmitted on the authority of the prophet as well.",
      "should be called fiqh. Fiqh is theoretical understanding of the divine way and is 100% human made. Might I add it's 100% man-made in the way in which I will describe it for a moment. When the Islamist movement took root in the latter part of the 20th century,",
      "a resolution to the empiricism of the West with regard to the phenomena of the nation state would be defeated by referring to a system that was higher, because of course it was related to belief in God. That was higher. That is older but at the same time that was authentic to the Muslim person.",
      "That was the goal. The problem is, the articulation of what is this Islamic way had not only been filtered through a thousand years of fiqh but also had been incorporated into concrete laws at the time of colonialism itself where the fuqaha those people who give legal opinion used to make decisions based on their knowledge",
      "knowledge of the Quran, of the Sunnah, of Hadith and of their own locations. They did so with a certain spontaneity, eclecticism and genuine relationship to the community. They didn't do so on the basis of codes that went into place around the time of colonialism. You can ask me about this later. I'm just trying to give you an idea that fiqh was much more complicated,",
      "to the daily lives of the people who were using it than what the Islamists understand it to be. The Islamists have a frozen notion of some perfect Islam which never existed because Islam was always alive and always engaged in the dynamism of life, so there was nothing fixed but after colonialism certain laws particularly Muslim personal status laws or family laws became",
      "would take it to be Islamic. So the high point of the Islamist movement was the Iranian Revolution because then Islam won out, whoever it was who articulated this Islam and around that same time many Muslim women who have been active in the nation-state building stage",
      "a different perspective with regard to women's freedoms, liberations, identity development, spirituality etc. and decided that they did not want whatever it was the Islamists were advocating. And if what the Islamist was advocating was indeed Islam then they didn't want Islam. So secular feminism was not born at",
      "It was born after the rise and signs of success of Islamism itself. By the time we get to the conference in Beijing in 1995, the Islamists are there and they're represented coincidentally at a women's conference mostly by men who were handing out literature explaining the wisdom behind Islam's decisions about A, B and C",
      "And the secular feminists galvanized their support behind the international instruments of human rights from the UN. Instruments like CEDAW, the Convention for the Elimination of All Forms of Discrimination Against Women.",
      "strongly supported by the international community because this was the language that the international",
      "is going to be better than anybody's notion of human rights. And the secularists said, we need to get rid of Islam because we have to have human rights.\" Most Muslim women in the world did not fall into these two camps despite how articulate they were, despite how much funding support they had.",
      "an organization that's now 20 years old. There we were in the middle with no methodology, no objectives but a clear and intuitive sense that neither one of these sides represented us. And so we began to develop a methodology and set of objectives and we begin to network until",
      "And what the problem was, both the term feminism and the term Islam needed to be interrogated. Who is Islam? Whose feminism?",
      "a direct and intensive critical study of our own tradition. To do so from a manner which was explicitly gender sensitive, gender inclusive. Women's voices, women's perspectives, women ways of knowing. In the end it was very clear that the Islam",
      "that was at the table, was the Islam as articulated within a patriarchal rubric which certainly had sanction in more than just that one century but was not necessarily the exclusive way to articulate Islam because alongside the patriarchy of the Islamic message was also the egalitarian message.",
      "The two coexist even, for example in the articulations of the Quran. In the Quranic revelation. Why? Because the Quran was revealed to real people living in a real context. 7th century Arabia where they had slaves, where they have multiple wives,",
      "addresses that particular situation while simultaneously establishing a trajectory of human equality unparalleled at that time. The whole idea behind the United Nations, by the way just in case you have forgotten since it started over here in Europe with the wars of the previous century,",
      "shown that as human beings we can do things to violate the honor and dignity of other human beings just because we're at war with them. Some of the atrocities that were committed by human beings against other human being,s we collectively decided",
      "that a person deserved to have no matter if they were friends or enemies. The UN did not come out of mid-air, it came out of World War I and World War II. But the UN was not the beginning of the conversation about what it means to be a human being. All the spiritual traditions, all the philosophies had already articulated",
      "In our tradition as Islam, we also have notions about what it means to be a human being. Fundamentally according to the Quran, I'm going to create on the earth an agent. The human being is a moral agent of the will of God on the Earth. That's the fundamental understanding of a human",
      "being that is different from the understanding of a male human being, all of that was constructed later when people said well what does it mean in our context. In most of these contexts just like the rest of the world were patriarchal so if the Quran has established unconditionally that my right as a human being which is to believe in and worship God",
      "from any other person's right, why would there be a set of laws that would subsume me under a secondary status? We know why there will be laws that do that. But the problem was, why did they say in Islam... Have you ever heard this? In Islam, a woman can't drive a car? I remember the first time somebody said it to me. I married that guy by the way.",
      "Now I'm going to fast forward just a little bit because I think I've set this up well enough. On September 11th, something happened that was really a tragedy for me personally as an Islamic Studies scholar and as a Muslim but it was also very important for this conversation with you today",
      "performed in the name of Islam, it became even more important for many Muslims to figure out whose Islam blew up trade centers and slaughtered people on the street here in Europe. Whose Islam was that? And as soon as you ask the question who is Islam then you begin",
      "even as a Muslim. Of course I live in the United States, let me be frank and our response to those events was to go into war so you guys had your turn and so the United states I guess is feeling a little bit underrepresented so now we're fighting in Iraq and now we are fighting in Afghanistan but what also happened with these two invasions",
      "in the name of freedom, justice, democracy and liberating Muslim women was an even more critical necessity for distinguishing whether or not Western feminism truly represented all women of the world. And guess what? It did not! But once you problematize both the word Islam",
      "and the word feminism, then you began to have agency over both terms. It was clear from the work that we had been doing before we went to Beijing it was clear that we took agency of our own identity as Muslim women but what we had not done is taken",
      "definition of Islam. And once we took agency, which is very simply this, Islam belongs to us. We make this religion as we live it and if we are motivated, as am I, from the Quran's own message",
      "you achieve from Tauhid and if, from that message we are inspired to challenge any laws, any policies, any practices, any individuals even members of our own family that establish for us a role in our",
      "That is anything less than the full agency given to us by Allah, then it is our duty under that agency to challenge those practices, those policies, those attitudes. Thus was born Islamic feminism.",
      "that we are talking about. The reforms that we're talking about would actually challenge a policy in Jordan, that gives citizenship to the sons and daughters of a Jordanian man married to a non-Jordanian woman but would not give citizenship to",
      "they are both equal citizens of Jordan and equal creatures before Allah. Once we remove the impediment from establishing justice and equality, once we were clear that nothing ever happened to deny women their full and equal human dignity in the name of Islam but rather in the",
      "of Islam, then it was possible for us to claim a name for ourselves which was Islamic feminism. Thank you."
    ]
  },
  {
    "file": "amina_mccloud/Resensi Buku Wanita di dalam Al-Qur_an Karya Amina_Julk6TgLnlU&pp=ygURQW1pbmEgV2FkdWQgaXNsYW0%3D_1742933757.opus",
    "text": [
      "Perempuan di dalam Al-Quran. Buku ini merupakan hasil terjemahan oleh penerjemah yang bernama Yaziar Radianti dari Quran Edhman.",
      "Dari Quran and Women karya Aminawadud Mohsin pada tahun 1992 yang diterbitkan oleh Fajar Bakti Kuala Lumpur. Lalu, diterkitkan kembali oleh penerbit pustaka pada tahun 1994 dengan menggunakan bahasa Indonesia pada cetakan pertama.",
      "merupakan buku lama yang masih relevan untuk kita baca. Hal ini dikarenakan agar tersampaikannya pesan-pesan Quran secara substansial sesuai dengan tujuannya sebagai pendoman hidup umat manusia. Memahami isi Al-Quran tidak cukup hanya sekedar memahami secara tekstual apalagi mengandalkan cocokologi belaka,",
      "harus melibatkan disiplin ilmu lainnya agar mampu menginterpretasikan Al-Quran secara adil demi kepentingan hidup umat manusia baik laki-laki maupun perempuan setelah membaca buku ini saya sangat kagum dengan upaya penulis yang telah menyajikan hasil risetnya",
      "untuk merekonstruksi pikiran pembaca dalam menginterpretasikan makna-makna tersembunyi yang terkandung di dalam Al-Quran sebagai kitab suci yang sudah diakui secara universal. Al-Kur'an sebagai kitap suci, yang muncul pada abad 14 yang lalu patut kita hidupkan kembali dengan cara mengkajinya secara lebih mendalam.",
      "Ada lagi yang memahami isi dan makna yang terkandung di dalam Al-Quran bagaimana mungkin pesan-pesan ilahi bisa tersampaikan dengan baik. Al-Kur'an harus tetap hidup dan menjadi petunjuk bagi kehidupan umat manusia tanpa dibatasi ruang dan waktu. Jika tidak, maka Al-Xur'ana akan tetap menjadi teks mati yang kehilangan tujuannya.",
      "Sebagai kitab suci yang diturunkan kepada Nabi Muhammad SAW Telah berhasil membawa perubahan kondisi sosial, moral, spiritual dan politik secara konkret di wilayah Arab pada saat itu Perubahan-perubahan itu mampu mempengaruhi kawasan lainnya Yang lebih luas dalam waktu yang sangat singkat",
      "pengubah dunia yang harus kita akui dan pahami secara bersama. Ada dua implikasi penting yang disampaikan oleh penulis kepada pembaca dalam studi khususnya mengenai masalah wanita dalam Al-Quran. Pertama, sebagai satu bentuk usaha memelihara relevansi kandungan Al-Kur'an dengan kehidupan manusia.",
      "Al-Quran harus terus menerus ditafsirkan ulang dari masa ke masa. Kedua, kemajuan peradaban telah melukiskan betapa luasnya partisipasi wanita di masyarakat dan pengakuan atas pentingnya sumber daya wanita.",
      "tentang peran dan partisipasi wanita yang tergandung di dalamnya Al-Qurannya satu, tapi penafsiran atas nasinya sangatlah banyak Jadi jika ada penafsyiran yang hanya menyudutkan dan membatasi peran Dan partisipansi wanita dalam kehidupan sosial masyarakat Pada hakikatnya bukan ayat-ayat al-qur'anya yang membataskan kaum wanita",
      "ke wanita, melainkan penafsiran atas nasnya yang menjadi penyebabnya bukan Al-Quran itu sendiri perlu ditekankan kembali bahwa ayat-ayat dan prinsip-prinsip Al-Kur'an tidaklah berubah ia bersifat fleksibel dan universal karenanya yang berubahlah adalah bagaimana kapasitas pemahaman dan perefleksian prinsipe-princip",
      "dalam suatu masyarakat Oleh sebab itu untuk memahaminya pun tidak cukup hanya dari perspektif kebudayaan tunggal apalagi perspektip masyarakat Islam pertama pada zaman Rasulullah melainkan harus dengan perspekti yang lebih berkeadilan bagi kedudukan manusia laki-laki dan perempuan",
      "bagi kaum perempuan dimanapun Anda berada Islam itu ramah terhadap kaum perekpuan pedoman kitab suci nya pun memberikan banyak kemuliaan bagi kedudukan pereumpuan yang lebih manusiawi dari sebelumnya peran dan partisipasi sudah diakui sejak dulu kala jika laki-laki dan pereimpuan saling memiliki",
      "dan menghegemoni salah satu manusia yang sama-sama memiliki peran dalam kehidupan ini. Kita di mata Tuhan itu setara, tidak ada yang lebih tinggi di antara salah satunya. Itulah pesan-pesan yang dapat saya ambil setelah membaca buku ini. Semoga kalian semua tidak puas ya."
    ]
  },
  {
    "file": "amina_mccloud/Shaykha Fest 2013_ The Journey by Prof_ Amina McCl_owJaPjCA6ME&pp=ygUVQW1pbmFoIE1jQ2xvdWQgIGlzbGFt_1743315957.opus",
    "text": [
      "Let me say that it is an honor to have met my other colleagues again, some of them again",
      "some of them again, some of the first time whose writings and what I hear about them, Hibba especially. Which all of us need to take a moment and sing their praises. Ask the law to bless them and the law will bless them if we make that successful.",
      "around from tables trying to get you out and tell me what you want, and some of what you need. And it's been interesting. I don't often get a chance to speak with members of the community because I spend all my time in court either adjudicating marriage contracts gone bad or trying to well not prevent terrorism",
      "but to explain the Muslim positions on things and oftentimes trying to undo some of the things that Muslims said when they're under pressure out there in public spaces.",
      "there before I retire. One of the things that I try to do, and I think I do fairly well as a mentor, however it is, I'm going to throw out some things because I like to be in conversation. I lecture too much and my quarter's over. I don't have to teach anything really to anybody so I'm relaxing with all of you and hoping to learn from you what you need for me to do.",
      "Western academia is an interesting place. And I thought I would give you some statistics because I have my colleague Sarah here from the UK and in the US or the UK only 20% in each place are the professors of women, still in the 21st century.",
      "In the UK, only 7% of those professors, the tenured faculty are women. Interesting. In the US, only 4%. I tried to look and I called a bunch of people to find out how many of those women were full professors and it's less than 1%.",
      "So in that I'm feeling good today. They don't fire me tomorrow. And we spend a great deal of time trying to get women to apply for jobs, trying to want faculties and assist them in getting tenure which is a little bit of a task itself.",
      "about how I got here. Islamic studies is not my first career, my first careers are in pharmacy and medicine and I got bamboozled because the problem was African Americans being able to conquer graduate",
      "and I will see all of you in my wake because if I can do it, anybody besides possum or a couple other things can do this because you have all had a listen to the conversations far more intellect than I for this subject. Don't even look like that. For me was arduous coming from a science background where I'm more interested in delivering babies",
      "to sitting down and engaging men in what I kind of considered my own very personal spiritual path. When I went to graduate school, there was only one university in the United States that offered Islamic studies, and that was Temple University in Philadelphia.",
      "There are two things you have to do. You know, you do your stateside study and then you have go overseas to do your law or your Quranic studies etc And I have to admit that you don't want to know what I had to say about the Muslim world or the method of teaching Because I found all of it on one hand exceptionally difficult didn't have to be that way but on the other hand What is it you call in psychology when we're doing when you can't do something well?",
      "something well. Yeah, I do have a learning disability and it was for memorizing things by root so you know I'm sitting with fully grown woman lots of mouth in classes in the module trying to memorize stuff",
      "in a hurry so they kept moving me along. I think that the task does not end there, getting a PhD and we also have to get licenses along the way which enable us to teach in law or Quran or this that or the other are at once enabling mostly",
      "mostly demeaning, and you do all of this without support. And I think if there was a thing my sister colleagues would ask is that you all pay attention to us. We're out there often by ourselves.",
      "So I don't get out much. But we do need support because when we take stands on issues that affect all of you, born here or somewhere else, we become targets for others. Without community support it becomes extremely hazardous.",
      "We live, most many of us with security from the CIA and FBI and our own personal bodyguards. I didn't think I needed them here today.",
      "unless you're constantly speaking to us. We may get it wrong, but without the cross communication, it becomes almost impossible. One of the things I like to think of myself as is a scholar activist and I like put Islamic studies into practice",
      "There's an important nexus that many of us miss in figuring out how to interpret things. You know, in Islam I've heard and asked about this last night one of the things that rankles me",
      "with me know is the word convert. Let me say a few things now. Convert is a Christian term that sits inside of a constellation of things, okay? It implies that when you move from one religious tradition or one worldview to another then it's instantaneous and",
      "It also carries with it certain notions that are not in Islam. One of those notions that I rail against is the notion of sin, because sin in Christianity has its own cosmology which fits Christianity rather well.",
      "in the Quran that signify different levels of obedience and it is important to understand where you are in a constellation of obediences. You know? We have a habit of talking about things as the halal or haram, two extremes. Loads of stuff in the",
      "of stuff in life. No, which we rarely talk about but nevertheless with sin I don't really think you want to be there it's not a term used casually and unless you're going to get saved by Jesus I really don't think you wanna be there okay? And there are some other terms",
      "talking about Islamically understandable to our various American audiences or English-speaking audiences, we tend to use but we're corrupting the beauty and nature of the Quran. So I'm just going to say, I think we need to think about the convert, revert is worse. It's not like you got out of jail and then you went back and got out again.",
      "I think that, and it is a thing where in Islam one of the things that brought all of us here today is that primary relationship of a Maulid. You know, one very primary relationship. If you shouldn't focus on people's, where they came from or this and that and the other,",
      "but they do have some obligations to you that you need to hold them to and they need to themselves too. And in Islam, one of the things that Al-Wawiyah is doing is it's reinstituting that primary relationship in its most fundamental form, the teacher and student with an understanding",
      "And that the student will become a teacher. Do you see how it moves? Go up at a conference, take your notes, go home, scratch and do something else. You have a responsibility to keep learning but then also to teach. You don't get to sit on it. But there's also somebody else I don't remember which table I was said well I'm going to learn something so I can act on it",
      "Act on it. And I've always found that meant acting with some caveats behind it because you cannot learn and not act upon it. I think, I love to talk about the women and the marital right. I find that one of the problems, because I adjudicate a lot of them, is in the contract.",
      "contract and it makes me ask questions but what are you scared of putting your contract you are a gift to some dude i mean seriously and if he can't get it together get another do",
      "the contract because after stuff goes south it is very hard for us to come back i watch um you know the mob is becoming a big hit word in the courts you know",
      "should understand it. People are deferring dowries till they would have had to die three, four times to get it. You know that's not what's supposed to be happening. It's not that it's supposed I have everything but the kitchen sink in it, but it's suppose...it functions in two ways. One is you're supposed",
      "And that self-assessment should reflect itself in any contract that you write. I've seen women getting married and the mar is a Quran, they can buy a Quran themselves or I'll give them one. Do you understand? That is not good functioning there. It is in a sense of payment for exclusive rights",
      "rights to your sexuality. And if that's worth nothing to you, then you can't cry about it later. What else did I get? Oh! We were yesterday...",
      "which is an extension of what Dr. Malika said earlier, and that is women's rights. And I guess I rail a little bit about you trying to find your rights because that's an English term that really functions in Western societies in a way",
      "I think that in the conversations that those of us, and I agree with Dr. Hemminger, you know one of the things we've met is feminism. And while I don't care to explore what women think they are or aren't doing, the constellation in a religious tradition on which they function, that of Christianity has a different set of premises.",
      "equality. The number of men I do not want to be equal to is very, very low in either their intellect or physical prowess. I think that women have some gifts that they've not fully explored. They not only have intellect, they not only",
      "I don't know if she was here, manipulate this baby carriage, three bags and something else. And still open the door for me and some other old folks. They have all the physical powers they need. But they have something that is very, very special. Many, or should I say most, can mother. Not necessarily have kids because all of us can't have kids.",
      "can't have kids and if you're dying to have some i have something you can have but we can mother and we're always mothering whether we've given birth or not with mother till we die you know we start mother what about 14. and we just continue mothering and bring people under our wings in many ways I think",
      "I think also, let me make sure I cover what she didn't really need to cover. The young lady who's a freshman should be in my class. We have to do a lot more about learning about each other's cultures",
      "One of the wonderful things about being in this place is we get a chance to meet Muslims from all over the world. And just like others in society, we take no advantage of them. We don't share meals. We know share wisdoms. We dont share ways of doing things. We do not share what you read and how did you get through this?",
      "You know, one of the women who helped me most with one of my kids was an old Arab grandmother. And she was much nicer to him than I was. But she gave me a whole different perspective on how to do things, how I could do things. And that's the kind of wisdom that you reach across cultures to get. That's the tribes coming to know one another.",
      "Some of us are, you know people speak different languages. They may not speak English. Gesturing works well. There's something about mothering and taking care of the young. We're starting a project in Chicago this summer when I get back where I've asked some of the especially the Latino moms",
      "you know moms, grandmas who are not Muslim. They're kids in Muslim and some of the immigrant mothers to help me out with the slightly faster generation who are having kids their own mothers are maybe 12-13 years older than they",
      "been there their old mothers are trying to be 17. so i said you know it doesn't matter in this instance that the face of the help is you know i don't want to go around and listen you know they got on all this stuff fine but if we can provide the mothering",
      "who cares they know more about mothering than these 12 13 and 14 year olds so we're pulling them in under the auspices of a little bit of health care their grandmothers will encourage them leave your baby go to school you don't have to pay for the",
      "of reaching across cultures to think about how to get the wisdom but also to bond in a different kind of way i think we have fallen into and I'll say falling into because some of the folk in here have known me for the last 40 years um we've fallen into for the Americans being un-American",
      "was our willingness to reach across our Islam with a hand toward men. Once we secret ourselves behind our veils and doors, we cease to do the outreach. Back then the Saudis had decided to call it Dawah so we didn't call it that but we reached anyway. The masajid were full of as many non-Muslims",
      "many non-Muslims as there were Muslims. And we need to go back to some of that. The last part, and I'm going to cut it short because I've talked long enough is how does one mentor? At DePaul in our Islamic World Studies program I think last county we have about 32 courses",
      "courses and they range from courses in the Quran and its interpretation to courses in sectarian movements, courses in hadith, several courses on law. We have courses on women. We haven't Islamic history we have Islamic art architecture. We",
      "And I was trying to think, as an answer to a request, how we could make some of them available to you as members of this group.",
      "How we can do some popular stuff. We can make a book club online, that's not difficult and I can ask Tiva",
      "who are here, we can make some book choices from books we assign to students but we can do it at levels. For those of you working on master's degrees and PhDs that is one kind of reading. There are plenty of Muslim women who are cultural anthropologists and I can make sure you get some of those texts. Yay!",
      "do let's say readings of spirituality we have a couple of faculty who can do that. We have faculty who do advanced Urdu, Arabic, Persian French German and Malay so we can work it out to assist you however it is with the system if",
      "know and we'll try to get it for you. The other part of what I wanted to talk about, and not being told I need to hurry up is what I would like to further ask of you. We don't have folk tales. You know Egyptians got them, the Syrians got them.",
      "The Caribbean people. We don't have folk tales. At least half of us wrong tell stories, probably more. Would you please write that so I can have it so we publish it in a book of folk tales? If you don't raise children with tales like they're on, they don't",
      "See, everybody knows. You know and they're on book what? Seven. You now some of the folks whose kids are as old as mine, the girls read The Babysitter's Club. All 83 because I paid for them. 83 books. It is time to develop you can put the values",
      "It's storybook. And they shouldn't just be for Muslim kids because the obligation of a Muslim in any society is to set an example, okay? You can't set an exam if nobody can read that text unless they're Muslim, okay. So we need the, the culprits. The only thing I ask is whoever you decide",
      "whoever you decide to make the central character, keep that person as the it animal person. As the central characters. For those of you who write other kinds of literature please let us know I'm an editor for Brill and one of the editors for Oxford. I edit a lot of stuff much of which is not written by Muslims",
      "you write it we will work with you to get done for those of you who do American law, we have the Journal of Islamic Law and Culture but you don't have to do law. You can write about political I mean you can write",
      "We'll help you. It's a full editorial board. These professors are committed to helping you lift the language. May not look like what she wrote when we finished with it, but it will have the same intent because it's important.",
      "And I added Middle Eastern studies to that. It's very tiny in this country. They need help. They mean help with the research, they need for you to volunteer to help. We need... Most of you know that there are as yesterday morning 24 states trying to ban the Sharia. Much of that comes from people who don't know trying to explain what the Shari'a is",
      "I am. We have Tennessee and seven more states up to ban wudu in public spaces. Tennessee don't do wudus in a public space in Tennessee because I hate Tennessee. Well, it came you know its impetus",
      "You cannot afford to not keep up with the news.",
      "You've got to keep up because a part of being Muslim is to be informed and to be aware. Always have to be Aware of your surroundings the assault against Islam and Muslims in this country has left the front pages And it has moved to page 32 But the assault is deadly Those of you who are interested in research",
      "research to read all the help we can get because there are too few of us that work on the issues. The kids, you've heard about the ban of a scarf in France? There are states which are trying to affect that and we're meeting with those senators,",
      "Women, fortunately for them do not keep bombs or other devices under those scarves. But it's more so about the attack against children because women send their children to schools in scarves but then women are not at school to protect those children against the assault of principals and teachers. So as one who kind of I was very teeny tiny during civil rights movement you've got don't",
      "You've got to, don't send your kid anywhere where you're not going with or right behind them to protect them. They are in classrooms where teachers are verbally assaulting them.",
      "stuff across the board and this is with CARE, ISNA, ICMA whole bunches of organizations which are not equipped to do that depending upon academics to provide them with a final we can't keep up with the assaults verbal. And when you have verbal assaults like that on little kids they become psychological problems",
      "maybe a decade ago, we redid the high school textbooks section on Islam. It was hell getting it through the Texas Depository. We waged numerous battles to get it through. The Republicans came in which some of you voted for and wiped it out so that either this year or next if",
      "If Islam is mentioned at all, it'll be two sentences in the world history textbooks. The assault is on many levels not to fear and I do believe in love. I'm just not in love with my country right now.",
      "kids, your grandkids going to school. You've got to monitor what happens to you in the public space. We can't move on anything unless we know what is going on. We also need for you to report good things that are happening in the space where people have not...we had a bunch of women fired because they wanted to watch it up",
      "Physicians especially. And you know, along with the men because non-Muslim women didn't want Muslim men touching them. You know, just all kinds of stuff you would not believe but it's across the board. So we need for you to work with us in all the ways that you can to be vigilant and I'm going to ask that...I'll put something out there if you want to be in the online book club let",
      "Hibben will help me get a reading list. Tell me what you want to read. I am reading Diary of a Worthy Kid. So would you please hurry up and write something? Let me ask you quickly, do you have any questions for me?",
      "You know the state of Tennessee talked into another, she wanted to know about the state",
      "haven't done a good job explaining what islam is and who we are. We're busy being apologetic, okay? Which doesn't work well here but the state of Tennessee in its state legislation toughen a fine plus jail sometimes or a fine if you're caught making women",
      "and they can move in. If the people complain, you're in a picnic space and they complain because you're making them afraid, they'll come and pick you up. Other states given the Boston bombing, state referendum and pieces of bills tucked into other places before Congress is enormous.",
      "She's so big. As-salamu alaykum I'm really glad that you mentioned the point about folk tales. I was thinking about music, movies and media in general in our society And one of the things that brought me closer to Islam was actually reading the lyrics and analyzing",
      "what the words actually mean and sort of having that understanding of what we hear every day. And I was very curious, how do you... What is your recommendation in terms of going beyond just what our children read but what we all everyday are surrounded by when we need it? Well, I think that's where there are levels of activism.",
      "Do you know Rhymefest? You know Rheinfest, do you know who Rhymes is? What are y'all be doing? Do you now who Lupe Fiesta is? Huh? I think what you have to do with the young men and I do hang out with them",
      "I listen very, very carefully. I try to say something when I think it's going overboard. I listen to a lot of rap and hip hop unfortunately but I try see where I can interject something.",
      "venue where they've gotten it and there's another kind of video where the emphasis is on the social message. And then I'm talking to you, and I'm thinking about one of Lupe's videos,",
      "He's not talking to Muslim women. He's talking to non-Muslim women who don't understand how they act and how their children mimic the stuff, okay? I think in being an activist you have to interject. You know young men come into my classes all the time with their pants hanging",
      "hands is hanging, I will report you to the police for an instant exposure. And I do it all over down the street. You know, you can't be in a neighborhood where young people without guidance don't get something from you. If they don't",
      "So you've got to at least have your say before they do you. And hope that they don't do you! I mean, that's horrible but I mean you really have to... In Chicago right now we're doing taking it to the streets. I don't know if you all heard of taking it into the streets? But I'm a board member and we work very hard with women",
      "women coming out of prison, men coming out from prison. Most of them are not Muslim. They're folks out in the neighborhood because that's what Muslims aren't supposed to do. We're supposed to be role models all the time. The object of Allah's mercy through us we don't get to choose. You're always supposed",
      "you know so if you hear and some of those lyrics are really interesting in a extremely misogynistic environment culture right to produce there are tweeting",
      "African American is the lyrics which talk about mamas and women. And I'm saying, you know, country western doesn't even do this. Why y'all doing this? You know there is no other genre where women are spoken of so poorly. And you have to get there if you don't get there they think that your feet are padding too.",
      "You know, there is a generation of it's all relative. I'm not of that generation, unfortunately. It's not all relative you know when the young ladies are in the streets with almost no clothes on, I do make comments. Um, I DO make comments of the young owners on the street. You know i'm not willing to pay for their bed but I will make a comment",
      "Because if nobody ever hears it, they don't have an idea that anything is wrong with them. Yes? Ms. Cultural Anthropologist.",
      "I had a couple things that kind of stuck out to me. The one thing, specifically what you were just talking about, our older generation making it a point in the need to check the younger generation and the things they do as far as their external appearance. No no no! That's not just the older generation. You too!",
      "That's what I was about to talk about. It being necessary Islamically, especially with Muslim women. I mean, Muslim men have their own struggles so we can't speak of that at this particular event. But at the same time, we're not in an F enough position because they have their on struggles and their own things as Muslim men. We can speak about it but we are not in a position to properly judge or even discuss",
      "Masha'Allah sister, masha'allah.",
      "about the policy and is that policy is really big in today's society as far as when you really want to get something through to government officials and to the people then it's a serious this is our way of life and our culture. And how do we organize each other just some innocence of just talking about the school district of Philadelphia and different things are being done so the teachers and students extracurricular activities, and that's something I'm really involved in trying to make",
      "and when you let it like really, revolve around yourself, you become ignorant. And you have an ignorance bliss mindset. How do we organize each other as Muslims? As Muslim women with our numbers, we have the quantity but the quality isn't always there. How to be organized and create policy that will stick and influence? I don't think you can create policy which definitely can influence it",
      "Don't think that the Muslim women have nothing to say about most minute as cute No, I mean it is that you my husband isn't a man much community And I am a life of safe through him and he won't go anywhere unless",
      "are supposed to love us to death right and our fathers generally do um and it's supposed to be a conversation it's always a conversation both of you trying to get to gender you know whether you wind up in the suburbs or dead square in the center you're both working",
      "for each of you all the time to one another so don't think that and I don't know about I mean like I've seen Philadelphia's schools it is not different than any other school system parents have a say they influence policy in local schools if you got kids or grandkids get into"
    ]
  },
  {
    "file": "amina_mccloud/Should we follow Muslim feminist thinkers_ Amina W_Zqj36E9jZ-E&pp=ygURQW1pbmEgV2FkdWQgaXNsYW0%3D_1742921642.opus",
    "text": [
      "As-salamu alaykum and welcome back to the podcast. My name is Farhat Dameen. Today's topic is should we follow Islamic feminist thinkers? Now in the past few decades some Muslim female academics",
      "what they perceived as women's rights and equality of women. The work of various individuals and organizations is often referred to as Islamic feminism, but a Muslim woman who has experienced oppression within the Muslim community it is easy to see why she would turn to Islamic feminist thinkers for support. The prejudice of white secular feminists doesn't appeal to her identity",
      "But unfortunately, she doesn't feel welcome in some traditional Muslim spaces. So therefore Islamic feminist thinkers they purport to root their opinions in the Islamic tradition so Muslim women in particular believe that their views are legitimate. Therefore the egalitarian atmosphere created by Islamic feminist scholarships is a safe space for some Muslim women now Islamic feminist",
      "Is it not the case that only a handful of people champion Muslim women's issues? So when educated, articulate Muslim women address the misogyny amongst Muslims, women are grateful and some gravitate towards them. Islamic feminist thinkers gain traction because modern Muslim societies in the East and West are not comprehensively delivering women the Islamic rights that Allah decreed",
      "Islamic feminist academics are saying is Islamically sound. A Muslim who has not studied Islamic history will not have the skills or knowledge to assess their views, so the result is that women trust them because they are pro-women and believe that they have their best interests at heart. However before jumping on the bandwagon we should pause and question our motives for following Islamic feminist scholars.",
      "they articulate what we want to hear? Or is it a case of shopping around for an opinion that agrees with our lifestyle. Rather than blindly accepting their assertions, we should evaluate them without gender bias. Just because they are women this doesn't mean we unquestioningly embrace their thinking. We should consider their views objectively. Moreover,",
      "of scholarly mainstream Islamic opinions. Inshallah, that's what I hope to do in today's podcast episode and with me I have Alhamdulillah, I have sister Hira Hashmi. She is part of an online platform called Traversing Tradition and I'd like to just welcome Hira. As-salamu alaykum Hira, how are you? Wa alaykumsalam, I'm doing well. Thank",
      "Well, we've spoken before on the podcast and it's just so nice to have you on again. Now in case listeners don't know about Traversing Tradition could you just tell us a little bit about the platform? Yeah of course! TraversinGT is a non-profit online publication and our goal is to provide different perspectives on modern society through the lens of Islamic theology Eastern and Western philosophy and historical analysis One of the biggest ideas that we try to get across",
      "articles is that many modern philosophies and ideologies they shape how we think about the world and how we want to analyze those same issues but with a lens of like through a lens",
      "So, okay. So today, so can I ask, have you come across, so what I was speaking about in the intro, the whole concept of Islamic feminism, is that something you've come across? Yeah. And interestingly enough, the way that I, you know, in high school and university growing up, you sort of praiseworthy, like, you",
      "of, you know, we've been oppressed. We have these issues that are pertaining to women, you and domestic violence and rape. And now that I'm in law school, you read so many criminal cases where it's just heartbreaking. And so the way that it was presented to me was, oh, this is simply a way of just saying I advocate for women. And I didn't realize how loaded of a term it was and how the history is actually much more complex than that until more recently.",
      "more recently and my husband mentioned that you know one time his MSA for example where he was at university there it kind of split into two because one group wanted to have a quote-unquote inclusive Jummah, where it was women leading the Jummuh hijab or no hijab and the congregation was mixed. And then the other half was like no no this is wrong,",
      "abide by any fiqh guidelines. So now you start to see more of those ideological components really manifest itself on college campuses and working with MSAs, that's something I've started to notice in recent years especially with my younger sisters is it's gone from we just want equality, we just",
      "leading dramas and we want hijab is not obligatory. And it really manifests itself in these ways where I really think Muslim women should take a step back before adopting this term, because it's not just this innocent kind of idea. It actually is being spearheaded by individuals who have very inappropriate and incorrect positions when it comes to aqidah, when it",
      "It's very interesting you said that, but it's a new phenomenon. And what I noticed is the on and this is one reason why I actually looked into this. Well there were two reasons really. I was noticing on social media so that would be whether it's in Instagram in particular that there were Muslim bookstagrammers who they are promoting the books of particular Islamic feminist thinkers",
      "thinkers. And so therefore, I looked at them and I thought, Oh, let me see these books. And they're saying that they are, and these women with quite big followings, and friends of mine were also liking the pictures and saying, Oh yeah, I really want to read this book. So I thought let me have a look at them. And then, and then I thought well okay let's, so then I googled the books and then i thought okay I'm going to read the books or read extracts or read papers on",
      "rather than just, you know, like liking it just because it's by a woman and just assuming it's good because they're Muslim and they look Muslim and sound Muslim. I thought, I think I'm not going to be, I want to dig a bit deeper but then also I, cause I have an Islam and feminism course on my website, Smart Muslima. And that was one area that I knew if you go on YouTube,",
      "women just, you know, I would say they are lay people who were saying Islam and feminism. There's no problem. It goes together fine. Islam is a feminist religion. But then I thought I need to understand where have they got that idea from? You know, what did they read? Who did they listen to that made them think that there was an Islam and Feminism can go hand in hand. And that's what made me think I actually have to read their works and listen to their talks.",
      "So so we're going to focus on that. There are many women, you know, in the Muslim world and, you Know, in The West. But I'm going to Focus on contemporary academics for in particular Amina Wadud Asma Balas Keisha Ali and Ayesha Hidayatullah And the reason why I think we should just focus on them is that they are the most vocal and they've written a number of books. So and seeing that our audience really is mainly Muslim women in the west",
      "Muslim Women in the West they are the books that people are reading now they don't always agree with each other but the one thing that they do agree on is that they're all pursuing they say equality and justice for women within Islam using an Islamic framework that is what they are saying. Now one of the okay so what",
      "now this word I find it so difficult to pronounce sometimes hermeneutical method and so thank you hermoneutics is a theory and methodology of interpretation especially the interpretation of um when i looked up the meaning it's a biblical text and philosophical texts so it's very it uses interpretive principles or methods and when immediate comprehension fails and includes",
      "Now, what's interesting is their approach is not the same as those used by traditional Islamic scholars. They show open mistrust towards the authority of transmittage and knowledge so they use their own methodologies to explain their interpretations.",
      "that um and why do you think they they do that? Well so that's a big question. One thing I would no, no it's okay inshallah i'll do my best to answer what I think and of course you know listeners can have their own input but one thing to understand is a lot of these quote unquote scholars-I say scholars because they are scholars in one sense but they're not what we think of when",
      "You've been trained in classical Arabic, you've been train in fiqh. And all of these things that make you eligible or qualified to do interpretation. So in that sense they are not Islamic scholars. When we look at any issue we have to start with Islamic epistemology right? What are our sources of knowledge? The Quran and the Sunnah. And with that there's rigorous methodologies. You know you have the methodology of Imam Abu Hanifa and Maliki so within the Maliki Madhhab",
      "You have Imam Malik, Rahimahullah and you have Amal al-Ahl al-Madinah. These legal concepts, when you look at the actions of the people of Madina, the way that he interpreted different hadiths and conflicting hadith, it's very rigorous and it's not a free for all. Dr. Amina Wadud one of her... One of the issues that I find with her methodology, I think was it in a book or was it some article where she said something along the lines",
      "along the lines of authority belongs to everyone. It doesn't belong to a select class, anyone can interpret Islam right? So my biggest issue with her is that she or like her methodology, she seems to say that you know this sort of Islam is for everyone type of deal which is a problem because then how can you define a certain um type of practice or certain understanding",
      "even like very extreme groups not to get too deep into that but they have their own interpretations right what's on what measure do you say this interpretation of islam is more valid like objectively more correct than another if you say islam can just be whatever anyone wants it to be so off the bat that's one of the issues um as for why you know a lot of these thinkers tend",
      "they see some sort of inherent gender bias in the existing history and methodology, right? So most scholars in our history were men. You know, vast majority of books were written by male ulama. So they see this as a problem that, you know, they say well they're not women, they can't understand the female experience. That means that their understanding of the tradition is inherently biased so we need a quote-unquote female interpretation. Now with the existing methodology",
      "So in order to get to that, often some of these women will negate the sunnah. They'll negate",
      "we don't know if they're authentic or not it's another reason i've heard so they'll just kind of remove all of that and what they're left with is the quran and if you don't have the hadith which gives you the context which gives, you know which goes back to the way that the prophet sallallaahu alaihi wasalam practiced the qur'an right he was the best example of the qura'n without the sunnah we don t have access to any of that",
      "rulings you know it has the verses of ahkam which are you know the rulings but you know without the sunnah, it's not contextualized and it's specified right many things from salah to wudu exactly how to do it that's not in the quran that's how that's from you know companions narrating from the prophet so without all of that they're left with a very flimsy methodology where you can just kind of look at the qur'an try to",
      "Quran, try to pick and choose what you want. Try to impose on it this preconceived notion that you have of gender equality. So that's kind of the way that I think of it when I see this is just a faulty understanding of Islamic epistemology, a sort of like, you know, just a fault methodology. And on the one hand, yes, like I can understand, you",
      "people do this you know they'll post like a really you know a hadith that you know people don't shouldn't be looking at until you know there are more advanced student of knowledge you know when it comes to for example concubines or you know controversial issues like that where i was exposed to that at a point in my life where my iman wasn't even you know i was still growing like i i was",
      "And so I can understand like that immediate, you know, feeling of trying to wrestle with these issues. But the solution is not to do away with all of it, you now? So that would be one way to understand this. Well yeah, I think that does explain it well that seeing... It seems that there is... They do... Okay let's just take our... Let me actually quote Amina Wadud. She said in her book",
      "Sihem Amer- Quran and women, rereading the sacred texts from a woman's perspective. So this is the beginning of the quote traditional tafsir is that they were exclusively written by males This means that men and men's experiences were included and women and women's experiences what either excluded or interpreted through the male vision. Perspective desire or needs of woman that sounds a bit funny to me but I took a direct quote but",
      "direct quote but um it is so it is it's the male perspective and asma balas she's written a book called believing women in islam on reading patriarchal interpretations of the quran she says beginning with quote since the qur'an was revealed into an existing patriarchy and has been interpreted by adherents",
      "exegesis so you're right they that's just two of them um it is as you said they will look at that so the going back to the question of why um do they not follow traditional scholarly you know methodologies it is because they say it is it's patriarchal that's why so therefore we are",
      "you know, selectively take parts of Islamic history. You could even but also you could I think a lot happens in people look at modern times, Muslim countries the way they are at the moment and societies and the access or that lack of access that women have to knowledge. And then they can look about say, yeah, they're right what these women that's my experience as well. I haven't been able to attend halakha at the masjid. I can't go to a retreat where there's lots for men",
      "for men you know it can be seen that yeah it's um the setup in a masjid or in a school you know an islamic university is patriarchal but that's just taking a few examples that doesn't mean Islam is patriarchial and the method of the scholars is patriarchical. That's a bit where we have to start being more do some more research and alhamdulillah as",
      "to do that research for his book Al-Muhaddithat, where he asserts that women played an active and prominent role in Islam's formative years. He provides numerous examples in his book where he contends that women had access to religious authority as men did. Nadwi's work provides biographical accounts of female scholars throughout the Islamic history, throughout the Islam tradition's history. And he factually dispels the myth propagated by Wadud al-Bala",
      "by Wadud al-Balas that the only noteworthy female Muslim figures are found in the very early years of Islam. I don't know, have you had a chance to read the book? Unfortunately, I haven't. I haven' t either but I've heard really good things about his work and it's interesting because these individuals who take issue with the tradition being patriarchal what they're doing is looking at",
      "current state of affairs, which is completely true. I agree there's issues with access to the masjid. There's issues that even should women get this Islamic education or not? And these are all problems originally from India and it's a problem there as well. But the issue is does that mean we can negate all of fiqh and all of usool because we believe there to be a level of bias?",
      "read by Ustada Reba Baig, Gender Bias and Fiqh Rulings Not Really. It's an article on Ilmgate. And she kind of discusses how yes like you know perhaps there is a limit to how much women were actively involved compared to men we're not disputing that but the fact is women were engaged unlike what Barlasa saying or what Dr. Amina Wadud is saying for example many of the rulings",
      "menstruation, which is something that these women do take an issue with. Why are women not allowed to pray when they're menstruating? A lot of these rulings come from Aisha radiAllahu Anha. They come directly from the female companions and often Aisha would take stricter opinions than her male counterparts. So there's also this assumption that only if women were involved we'd have quote unquote more leniency when it comes to women regarding women in the masjid or",
      "regarding modesty or whatever. So I do recommend this because I think we need much more research like Sheikh Akram Nadwi is doing in one, showing that women have been engaging in the tradition and two just understanding that individually yes there may have been scholars who were products of their time but overall as an entire tradition they in the methodology right it wasn't",
      "it wasn't like, you know, Imam Abu Hanif or Imam Malik sat down and thought, oh, how can we make things hard for women? The scholars weren't overall concerned with let's try to make things easy for men and hard for a woman. What they were doing is looking at this body of literature, looking at the Quran and thinking, how do we understand what Allah Subh'anaHu Wa Ta-A'la is commanding us to do in this situation? You know that is the role of a scholar. Yeah. And with the whole issue of patriarchy,",
      "I don't know how much they are willing to admit that they are affected by liberal feminist thinking. The whole concept of patriarchy and looking at the whole world's history, when looking at history, finding... And also there's a lot of assumptions made here that our history was patriarchal. Well, they say the Western history was patriarchal so therefore in the East or in the Muslim world it must have been patriarchal",
      "patriarchal um and so they've come to that that's where they're starting and then they therefore then assume okay because it was um there are they ignore they and they do choose to because even um there were so many books now written um by you know muslims and non-muslims that talk about the achievements whether in uh okay in public they'll talk",
      "you know um opening of the university by fatima al-fihri in moroccan city affairs also there were many that's just one example this fatimah bin alauddin and she was a jewish who gave but that was by the way for the listeners um there's an article on this whole topic will be on traversing tradition website so",
      "them because I would actually recommend you go and read the article that will be published in January. But there are many, I've listed many examples in the piece but what's interesting is that Islamic famous thinkers not only do they choose to ignore the public achievements that are recorded also the private for example the achievements of so it was yourself here that told me",
      "that Imam Malik and Imam Shafi, they were great because their mothers were their first teachers and scholars. I wasn't aware of that but those are the although these achievements are ignored and you think again that's not being honest and that's what being objective and that in there propagating this idea that our history is patriarchal because that's",
      "and research. Yeah, I would add to that their measure of what is success and what is evidence of women breaking the mold isn't itself a very material measure. We have to understand that throughout history across non-Muslims and Muslim women just didn't produce texts. Text weren't there to extrapolate on women's private lives usually. And I have no doubt",
      "doubt that there were so many more accomplishments of women, of all kinds, that we're not aware of. And you know too back to the idea of like how we're measuring these ideas of equality right they're not going to people aren't likely to see you know I think there's a recent article actually on traversing tradition about the myth of you know Fatima al-Fahri how yes it's an easy thing yeah it's very easy people like to point out because it's like oh she founded a university not just a mosque but a university which",
      "true entirely. But, you know, they're not likely to point out like Rabia Al-Adawiyah, right? Someone who's like an extremely pious woman or Sayyidina Fisa, who is a teacher of Imam Shafri or women who were of a more scholarly class, right. They want to point Out like Khadija was a businesswoman. Well, why do we emphasize that over the, you Know her being the first person to accept Islam and her piety and her devotion, right, like we have to look at what also",
      "we tend to see as bastions of equality? Or what measures do we see as evidence of, you know, empowerment. And that's something that I in recent years have taken an issue with just because I agree like I do want women to be empowered in all spheres but at the same time being the mother and being the reason, being the one who's pushing your son to be like one of the best scholars in Islamic history, that in and of itself is amazing right?",
      "right um uh sacrificing for the family that's amazing both for men and women like that's something that's so praiseworthy that we can't negate it may not have the glamour of wrote like this amazing tafsir or she founded a university but that's just that's justice praiseworthy and that's Just as amazing. Yeah, that's it. And you think if it's possible for Shekhar Ram Nadwi to do this research they could easily have done it but they choose not to",
      "And this is the thing and this again where it comes back to who do we take our knowledge of women's rights in Islam or the role of women in Islam, that just because it's a woman. As women I think gender doesn't have to... Well for men I mean but gender does not have to colour every discussion. Gender isn't...",
      "isn't, this is a very modern phenomena where it's like gender has to be brought into the discussion all the time. And it doesn't, it's an obsession that does in Islam we were, Islam isn't obsessed with gender the way you know, what feminists are because if you like... It's really strange how 20 odd years ago these discussions were not happening so like you said in the MSAs",
      "we do have to think how much of reabsorbed from liberal thinking and that they're the way that they have this um you know if we don't have everything the same there then it's not it's",
      "they cast doubt on the authority of hadith and sunnah now this is very very problematic um so i'm going to read um as my father said in an interview and the links again in the article all the links and the quotes are there for you to read uh for yourself but so she says for a believer the quran",
      "In her book, inequality and discrimination derive not from the teachings of the Quran but from the secondary religious texts, the tafsir and the hadith. Mina Wadud calls, she says there's sexism within the hadif. That's something else that she said. So therefore they because they believe that if any hadith what's interesting is they will take some hadith it's they don't reject all hadith",
      "the ones that agree with their thinking they will take that but anything that disagrees so for example anything that um explains the authority of um the father or the husband or when we look at family structure so you know the hadith about you all shepherds and it gives explains you know so they will disagree with that because they one they think it's patriarchal",
      "I listened to the discussions about that. So yeah, it is... I can see why sisters, they see and they don't understand it. And you can assume the worst. But the thing is we don't make assumptions about Quran and Sunnah. We gain knowledge. We go to those who have more knowledge than us. That's what we should always do. But unfortunately now then this is a problem. These women, it's very hypocritical. Not something that is again on Instagram and on... These are the things that are not mentioned.",
      "that are not mentioned. They'll just keep speaking about equality, but they won't mention this aspect of their thinking. But okay also actually have you noticed in England anyway these writers and thinkers they're mentioned in the Guardian, they're mentioning independent I see their names coming up very often that they'll refer to them as they'll call them scholars. And so again a lay person would think this person knows what I'll take my understanding from them",
      "I've noticed happening quite a bit as well. But okay, so another thing... Okay yeah we touched upon this a little bit but Islamic feminist scholarship is heavily influenced by liberal thinking. So feminist thinkers fail to acknowledge how much liberalism has affected their study of Islam. This is evident in their definition of equality. So now their definitions vary between number one strict sameness that's one way they view it which then renders",
      "So, Keisha Ali she's an American writer. She said in a this is from her website feminismandreligion.com",
      "dominance will not take us nearly far enough whose sharia is this it's certain it's certainly not mine i cannot believe that it is god's so she again pay again patriarchy is coming into this but it's not patriarchy that allows a muslim man to marry christian woman it's allah that allows it but again because it doesn't it's",
      "rulings that she rejects. But again, I know for example, this is Mona Eltahawy, she says exactly the same thing about polygamy. So therefore she says we should reject it. If it's not equal, we're going to reject it and so because the laws aren't strictly the same then it's problematic. Also some of the other things they define equality as agency and by this they mean choice",
      "mean choice and this is why some of them uh so for example amina wadud she uh this is a direct quote from her i have recognized and lived the idea that hijab is a public declaration or identity with islamic ideology i do not consider it is a religious obligation nor do i ascribe to",
      "denotion of modesty as mandated by the Quran and that was an online discussion so again it's not an obligation in another article she wrote there if you if a woman chooses to then it's okay and so does Laila Ahmed she she's another thinker so again this again equality is so the point I was making",
      "or agency and choice. And where have we heard that before? You know, that's exactly what liberals are telling everyone. So again, it's another very problematic piece of advice that they're giving to women. And the thing is that I know women who they don't wear hijab because of Amina Wadud and because of this, and they'll say she said it so she's a scholar, she knows.",
      "you're not on the same level as Amina Wadud, so why are you even talking about this? Yeah, subhanAllah. In terms of Islamic being able to take opinions from her she's just as not credible right as your average lay person in terms of actually taking her item and it's interesting with this I actually see some issues with the way that they're saying equality is agency and its choice but then",
      "but then not accepting the fact that polygamy is allowed. What do you say to a woman who willingly wants to engage in, you know, polygyny? So there's actually contradictions with the limits to what they believe as choice like it's actually just majoritarian values right? You don't really see people around if there's a convert woman who wants to put on hijab right like where is everyone supporting that as a choice so I do see actually contradications within their own understanding",
      "But, you know this let's just kind of like you said falls in line with larger secular liberal values and taking issue with any kind of authority. The ego as you know as God basically right? You know religion is coming down to my level and whatever I want and however I interpret it is valid there's no imperative for me to improve myself and hit this religious ideal. And I think that's the way that Christianity is practiced in the US at least",
      "least that's kind of the route it's taken right people just kind of it's a free-for-all and unfortunately if this is the kind of mindset that we people are starting to inculcate i you know that might be the way that you know muslims in the next few generations will start to practice is it's just choice whatever I want everything goes instead of understanding there is an objective ideal the sin isn't in not meeting",
      "or that this isn't obligatory, or this isn t a virtue. Yeah, yeah, that's very true. Now the other thing that again, this is a very modern projection that they bring in discussions is that so the idea of sameness, any rule that is different, any role in Islam that a man in a place of authority, in particular, they have a real my goodness,",
      "hatred is only the word that can be used, for the family structure in Islam and they have this idea that men should not have... The authority that Allah has given a husband and a father in the family, they have a big problem with it to the point where even in the Quran when it's mentioned the story of Ibrahim that when he was told",
      "told to you know that his wife haja he was told to leave her in the area in in the desert now we all know that story and it's but when um amina would do when it's uh against an article for feminism religion that she wrote that she the whole way she looked at that narration in the quran it was very derogatory and she was insulting prophet ibrahim because",
      "wife ignoring the fact that it was Allah's command that he was following now um and so this is a direct quote from what sure in Muslim cultures the patriarchal family ruled supreme and yet Hajar was literally thrown out in the desert to fend for herself and her child without even a second thought to the impossibility of her location as confirmation",
      "then says the deadbeat dad sarah the selfish and she swears and even god the benevolent question mark so now this is the and i think now this like the culmination of where their thinking can lead a muslim that it's led them to um question allah's commands question",
      "she's had no problem repeating that. She tweeted about it, and again I really do think many Muslim women they don't know that these are the kind of vile things that she's saying and I think if they did they would be rejecting her, they'd think twice about following her but it does...I think the most problematic thing is that not all women will get to that point",
      "And I think that's the kind of, like we have to be very aware of when we go down this path of looking for absolute equality in the Islamic texts. This is what you're not going to find it.",
      "And they said that they searched for it. So I'm just going to quote Aisha Hidayatullah, she said that she criticizes the blinding dogma that gender equality is the norm established by the Quran and she then said in the time that has passed since then I have become only further convinced",
      "that are detrimental to them, we must begin to confront these meanings more honestly without resorting to apologetic explanations for them or engaging in interpretive manipulations to force egalitarian meanings from the text. Furthermore I've also come to believe firmly that we must",
      "she's saying gender equality is not the norm and therefore we have to start reimagining and questioning the divinity of the Quran. Now I was really shocked when I read that because she is, to question what the divunity of the Qur'an, what is she saying? Yeah, I mean it's that kind of methodology if you're seeking out gender sameness, gender equality in secular liberal sense of the word",
      "the word you're not going to find it and i think dr amina also uh rejected rejects an ayah in the quran you know the one about right striking them um you know that i think you also have a quote here even though i've tried through different methods for two decades i finally come to say no outright to the literal implementation of this passage and the problem is you know taking gender norm",
      "because you're not going to see it in our tradition. We do have to understand when our understanding of equity, gender equity and relationship between the genders, yes there's an element of patriarchy in certain roles. Men are qawwamun they have responsibility over their family, they have different roles in the public sphere and we also have elements of matriarchy right? When it comes to children, when it comes... They're prioritized for custody",
      "the premise they're coming from is what's leading to them to do this when instead, they could have gone in the other direction of like no you know we're going to question this premises instead of questioning the sources right. yeah and so I said therefore income a lot of time to research in and be accurate in the quotes that I was using for these women because it's easy to mislabel people feminists or it's",
      "easy to misquote because we dislike what they're saying. It's easy to not be so rigorous in our research, but I thought we have to be honest as Muslims if we, you know, and so please read the article which is on traversingtradition.com and please share it with sisters or anyone who you feel being influenced by their thinking",
      "women learn just a little bit about what these women are saying. They won't follow them, it's a lack of knowledge I think here that's why they're gaining you know an audience but what is also interesting is the number of people who do listen to me is still actually very small. It's not a huge...it's just certain voices are quite loud that's all but when i was looking at you know you can",
      "shallow way of judging but they don't have that many, they're not that active on social media. They're not, they don' t have that followers but when someone I find every now and again someone will use them to what's the word you know to justify not following Islam. That's why I don't like it. It's like they've been used to justified with when someone wants to disobey Allah. And they've made a lifestyle choice. And because they want to have some kind",
      "and say, oh no, I'm still this is still an Islamic opinion. They will wheel them out. And I thought but actually we need to show that even wheeling them out they like you said, they don't have their basis and their principles are not it's not the foundation is not in Islam. But Alhamdulillah Jazakallah khair here. That was really nice of you to come on to just discuss this topic. It's not easy topic in the world to talk about. No, alhamdulilah. I would add one thing. You know, you're completely right.",
      "community, the influence they have is very small. The issue is that outside community really loves to cite them breaking barriers. I think I read a Guardian article recently about like a women's only mosque which when they say that usually it's not women's-only, usually it s LGBTQ affirming woman led Juma type of thing which is not valid at all so",
      "know, people who are aware of these scholars and I say scholars in the term meaning like academics are small. A lot of the ideas that they are peddling, you know, are making its way down to the lay people. And especially for our women it's really important that we make accessing our items and Islamic knowledge accessible for them putting them in touch with qualified Islamic teachers",
      "feel comfortable asking these questions but at the end of the day you know they come away with this understanding of Islam is the truth and women absolutely do have a place in this tradition it's just the way that these scholars are outlining it, these academics are out lining it. That's not the way we want to go so because of that pressure from the outside community and I remember at least in the US growing up you're always on the defensive oh why can't women",
      "do empathize with the young girl who's struggling but um uh you know inshallah as we you know we grow as a community doing that for our young women and men as well men as to make more accessible and you know really empower through islamic knowledge not despite it yes yeah that's alhamdulillah i care for that um okay then inshAllah we will speak again I'm sure soon on another topic thank you for having me alhamdolillah pleasure",
      "Alhamdulillah, it's a pleasure. Pleasure as always. Mainstream media outlets do not cater for the needs of you as a Muslim. There are topics which they will completely ignore. For example, the hijab ban that is happening in India, the Islamophobia that Muslim women all over in the West are facing. They don't even report Palestine or Syria in a balanced manner. So through my podcast and my YouTube channel,",
      "channel, I discuss the topics specifically related to Muslim women that particular mainstream popular culture will not discuss. Topics like critiquing feminism, topics such as number of hijab bands, niqab bands happening in India, in France, in Canada. These are challenges that Muslim",
      "So, inshallah I would love your help and support in continuing to create this content for Muslim women which is challenging the very negative Islamophobic narrative that we are being given.",
      "hand, we can speak about it or we can hate it in our heart and I think some of us are able to create videos on podcasts and others who are not able to do that like yourself you can support that work as well and gain in the reward inshallah by contributing and supporting to my Patreon page. The link is in the description below. Inshallah may Allah reward you and please do the",
      "challenge this Islamophobic narrative. But always remember that Allah is"
    ]
  },
  {
    "file": "amina_mccloud/Stephen Mehler_ James Churchward_ Aminah McCloud __wiPEuiU_5T4&pp=ygUVQW1pbmFoIE1jQ2xvdWQgIGlzbGFt_1742894311.opus",
    "text": [
      "Peace. I'm Rami Salam El, Grand Sheik of the International Asiatic Moorish Hip Hop Temple No. 23, a subordinate temple of the Moorshine's Temple of America. The segment you are viewing now is entitled More Jewels Uncovered. And this is where we dig into different texts, books, readings, and we find some of our history that's been hidden within the pages. Today we have three books that we will be looking into.",
      "looking into the first is African American Islam by Amina Beverly McLeod. The second is the Land of Osiris by Stephen S Mailer and last but not least is the Continent of Mu by Colonel James Churchward",
      "read real briefly because in the teachings of the Holy Quran it says that man knows not by being told so I urge you and I almost demand a few to look into these texts yourself to confirm what i'm reading is accurate and wise and exact moving right along in Aminah's book first chapter entitled The Early Communities 1900-1960",
      "and were perceived as a new job competition by recent European immigrants. African Americans articulated diverse responses to this precarious social and political situation, creating the religious communities.",
      "The Nation of Islam in 1930, the African American Mosque in 1933, Islamic Brotherhood in 1929, Universal Islamic Society in 1926. But the first recorded community as is labeled by Amina is the Moor Science Temple, 1913.",
      "Although it doesn't seem as accurate. And I may contribute that to perhaps where she drew some of her studies from, I'm not sure. But I would like to inform you that Amina Beverly McLeod is an assistant professor in the Department of Religious Studies at DePaul University.",
      "DePaul University. Founded in 1898, DePaul is the largest Catholic university in the nation and the largest private institution in Chicago.",
      "And you can deduce what you would like from that. Moving along in the land of Osiris, chapter 15 is entitled Kemet and the Myth of Atlantis.",
      "ever since Plato brought the concept to the Western world in two of his dialogues, The Timaeus and the Critias written in the 4th century BC. Plato claimed the story was passed down to the Greek statesman Solon by Egyptian priests. Several other Greek and Roman authors also related similar stories of a great ancient civilization that perished in a series of cataclysmic earth changes.",
      "The story of the Great Flood has been found in mythology and literature of almost all peoples worldwide, which has convinced many authors that it was a real event.",
      "very near in time to Plato's dates for the fall of Atlantis around 11,500 years ago. From my extensive research and interest in metaphysics I became aware that Plato's Atlantis story and stories of even older civilizations such as that of Lumeria in the Pacific Ocean are accepted parts of the Western metaphysical tradition. Groups",
      "the Freemasons, Theosophical Society, Association of Research and Enlightenment, Order of the Golden Dawn, and Poor Knights of the Temple of Solomon have all accepted the myth of Atlantis as a real event that occurred in time and space.",
      "I just wanted to highlight specifically some of the very interesting information that comes along with the story of Atlantis. For further research, I would advise you to look into the movie called Atlantis by Disney. Very, very amazing information hidden within that movie as well.",
      "Lost Continent of Moo. I wanted to show you a figure. Just lost my page if you bear with me for one moment.",
      "It is on page 56 and it's entitled the geographical position of Mu. I'm trying to highlight this so that you can get a good picture, and I'll also try to find an accurate link so perhaps you can see it yourself.",
      "But Mu would be right there. This would be North America, South America. And over there is Asia.",
      "conclusively prove that this land was the biblical Garden of Eden. Prove that Mu lay to the west of America and to the east of Asia, and therefore in the Pacific Ocean. I mean, this book here is something else. You know, uh... I skipped over to chapter 7. The Age of Mu's Civilization.",
      "Civilization. Check this out. Chapter 7, mind you. I have asserted that the civilization of Mu dates back to more than 50,000 years ago.",
      "is between 10,000 and 50,000 years old. Very interesting coincidence. Chapter 7. I don't know what that means. Further on... Let's see anything else that I wanted to highlight. I'll just read the back real quick. Moo! The Motherland.",
      "The Church War became close friends with the High Temple priest who taught him how to decipher several stone tablets which had laid hidden for centuries in the temple vaults. They told of a vast civilization, which had emerged, flourished and decayed long before our own – the continent of Mu. This is Church War's story and how he followed the trail of Mu to the ends of Earth and pieced together the picture of civilization whose influence is still felt throughout",
      "Though now lost in the mist of time, move the motherland. And just to highlight one point is that there's also been spellings of more as M-U-U are. Maybe it's a coincidence. Until next time, keep digging."
    ]
  }
]